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Tom Petty tells Bachmann to stop using his song [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum
 
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View Full Version : Tom Petty tells Bachmann to stop using his song


madcougar
06-28-11, 04:52 PM
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-petty-tells-michele-bachmann-to-stop-playing-american-girl-20110628

Well it looks like Tom Petty has warned Michelle Bachmann's campaign to stop using "American Girl" at her campaign functions. May I suggest "Stupid Girl" by Garbage instead?

Josh-da-man
06-28-11, 05:07 PM
Or "Crazy Bitch" by Buckcherry...

eXcentris
06-28-11, 05:09 PM
I first read that as Batman and then thought maybe he was using "I won't back down".

Who is Michelle Bachmann? Is she the new Sarah Palin? :)

DeputyDave
06-28-11, 05:13 PM
This happens every election cycle. Candidates on both sides are told to not use songs (it even happened to Obama). You would think their aides would learn by now to ask first and save them bad press and embarrassment.

PopcornTreeCt
06-28-11, 05:21 PM
This happens every election cycle. Candidates on both sides are told to not use songs (it even happened to Obama). You would think their aides would learn by now to ask first and save them bad press and embarrassment.

Probably because they know the artists will say no so they try to use it as long as they can.

kvrdave
06-28-11, 05:21 PM
I haven't followed her, but given the buzz she creates from the media and the hatred from liberals, I think I like her. Tom Petty can suck it. When he can put on a Superbowl halftime show that doesn't suck butt crack gravy, he can talk.

kvrdave
06-28-11, 05:22 PM
Probably because they know the artists will say no so they try to use it as long as they can.

My guess is that most artists don't have the control to stop them. The label does, and the label likes potential sales generated from old songs, etc.

Jason
06-28-11, 06:11 PM
I haven't followed her, but given the buzz she creates from the media and the hatred from liberals, I think I like her. Tom Petty can suck it. When he can put on a Superbowl halftime show that doesn't suck butt crack gravy, he can talk.

A calm and rational analysis as always. Kudos, kind sir. Kudos.

rw2516
06-28-11, 06:13 PM
My guess is that most artists don't have the control to stop them. The label does, and the label likes potential sales generated from old songs, etc.

The opposite is true for most artists. Rock artists anyway. The artists own theirsongs and the master tapes. The label owns distribution rights. There are examples where an an artist signed this away to get started, or their manager ended up owning the songs and recordings but those are the exception.

kvrdave
06-28-11, 06:17 PM
A calm and rational analysis as always. Kudos, kind sir. Kudos.

Bah, there is no more rational analysis in politics. If Obama had done everything he has done and his name was Bush and he was a Republican, you'd hate that he loves big business and was getting us into another war. Oh sure, you say, maybe you'd be that way, but we know JasonF would still be critical of him. :lol:

It is now just easier to go against what liberals and most of the press says. That way I don't have to keep up with the actual goings on.

crazyronin
06-28-11, 06:21 PM
Did her campaign buy an ASCAP license? If so, Mr. Petty may STFU and STFD.

kvrdave
06-28-11, 06:22 PM
Shut the fuck up and shut the fuck down?

Th0r S1mpson
06-28-11, 06:30 PM
Shut the fuck up and shut the fuck down?

Liberal nursery rhymes.

crazyronin
06-28-11, 06:31 PM
Shut the fuck up and shut the fuck down?

Shut The Fuck Up and Sit The Fuck Down.

I swear, since you got your jambly bits back, you've become progressively dumber.

I miss Doris :(

kvrdave
06-28-11, 06:42 PM
:lol:

Bronkster
06-28-11, 07:21 PM
It is now just easier to go against what liberals and most of the press says. That way I don't have to keep up with the actual goings on.

Holy Fuck, you're my parents.

crazyronin
06-28-11, 07:37 PM
Holy Fuck, you're my parents.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/lassie_faire/GIF%20central/000ba8t7.gif

BearFan
06-28-11, 07:54 PM
She should use Born in the USA

DVD Polizei
06-28-11, 08:32 PM
She should sing her own song with Sean Hannity and Ollie North with backup vocals.

LiquidSky
06-28-11, 08:37 PM
She should use Born in the USA

How about Afternoon Delight?

Numanoid
06-28-11, 09:05 PM
Holy Fuck, you're my parents.:lol:

BambooLounge
06-28-11, 09:20 PM
She should use "Puff the Magic Dragon" since you'd have to be puffing a lot to take this batshit crazy woman even half seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZxQZMSl-o0

It may be our political times, but as some one who pretty much abstains from politics, it always catches me off guard and completely baffles me how people as dumb as this go so far in politics. It is scary.

Michele Bachmann on 18th Century America:
“It didn’t matter the color of their skin, it didn’t matter their language, it didn’t matter their economic status… it made no difference. Once you got here, we were all the same. Isn’t that remarkable.”

Th0r S1mpson
06-28-11, 09:27 PM
Well, I think that's the first time I've heard her speak (no cable here). I can't say I'm too impressed. :lol:

Norm de Plume
06-28-11, 10:09 PM
That Minnesota loon's connection to this classic song has sullied it in my mind forever.:(

kvrdave
06-28-11, 10:43 PM
Holy Fuck, you're my parents.

:lol: Well done.

X
06-28-11, 10:44 PM
I just bought a Tom Petty DVD set. Maybe I'll return it. I can be as petty as he can.

Groucho
06-28-11, 10:47 PM
Her theme song should be "Maniac" or "Everybody Loves a Clown", in honor of John Wayne Gacy.

JasonF
06-28-11, 11:20 PM
I just bought a Tom Petty DVD set. Maybe I'll return it. I can be as petty as he can.

Is it your name? If not, I don't think you can.

(A conservative calling the exercise of property rights "petty?" Now I've seen it all).

kvrdave
06-28-11, 11:43 PM
It's for the good of the commune. Now maybe you'll see the light. -wink-

X
06-28-11, 11:55 PM
(A conservative calling the exercise of property rights "petty?" Now I've seen it all).Is giving up my property right to what I purchased "petty"?

spainlinx0
06-29-11, 12:44 AM
I just bought a Tom Petty DVD set. Maybe I'll return it. I can be as petty as he can.

Hope you didn't break the seal.

MoviePage
06-29-11, 01:02 AM
May I suggest "Stupid Girl" by Garbage instead?

Considering recent events, I think No Doubt's "Don't Speak" would be the best choice.

JasonF
06-29-11, 07:38 AM
Is giving up my property right to what I purchased "petty"?

I'm not talking about your CD, I'm talking about Tom Petty's copyright.

CRM114
06-29-11, 08:06 AM
Why would a nutty conservative want to associate herself with a pot-smoking hippy anyway? And why do they think these songs relate to them AT ALL? Stick with the button-down, boring, conservatives like Pat Boone or Amy Grant.

Groucho
06-29-11, 08:28 AM
Stick with the button-down, boring, conservatives like Pat Boone or Amy Grant.Or that "boot in your ass" song. Oh wait, forgot that now that Obama is CIC, the Republicans magically became peaceniks.

classicman2
06-29-11, 09:04 AM
This question may be a little off topic - but not much: Can anyone tell me how many guitars Tom Petty owns? It must be in the hundreds.

wendersfan
06-29-11, 09:18 AM
This question may be a little off topic - but not much: Can anyone tell me how many guitars Tom Petty owns? It must be in the hundreds.Well into the hundreds. He and Mike Campbell keep their gear in a warehouse/practice facility in San Fernando valley. I've seen photos and it's like a dream.

madcougar
06-29-11, 10:15 AM
Michele Bachmann on 18th Century America:
“It didn’t matter the color of their skin if you were white, it didn’t matter their language as long as it was English, it didn’t matter their economic status as long as you were rich… it made no difference unless it did. Once you got here, we were all the same as long as you weren't a minority. Isn’t that remarkable.”

Fixed.

madcougar
06-29-11, 10:16 AM
I just bought a Tom Petty DVD set. Maybe I'll return it. I can be as petty as he can.

You can be as petty as Tom PETTY!? Not bloodly likely...

DJLinus
06-29-11, 10:21 AM
I'm sure Ted Nugent would let her use "Wang Dang Sweet Poontang".

Yes, I think she's quite comely for a politician. :)

Groucho
06-29-11, 10:26 AM
Yes, I think she's quite comely for a politician. :)Thanks for your input, George R.R. Martin.

kvrdave
06-29-11, 10:30 AM
Fixed.

Pssst- no fixing posts in the political forum.

classicman2
06-29-11, 12:09 PM
Bachmann can follow directions (and take advice) from professional political handlers - Palin can not.

Mabuse
06-29-11, 12:42 PM
Why would a nutty conservative want to associate herself with a pot-smoking hippy anyway? And why do they think these songs relate to them AT ALL? Stick with the button-down, boring, conservatives like Pat Boone or Amy Grant.

This is what I always say. Why do the candidates (even the Democrates) want to be associated with these artists? Why did the Clintons want to be associated with Fleetwood Mac? A group comprised of a bunch of people who abused drugs and cheated on their spouses. Oh wait.

SkullOrchard
06-29-11, 01:06 PM
I remember Petty pissing off liberals in the 80's with that huge Confederate flag backdrop on the Southern Accents tour. He told his critics to fuck off. I really don't know what his politics are, but you really don't have to be an ideologue to resent someone taking something that you created and co-opting it for a political agenda. Something like that could be misinterpreted as a stamp of approval.

CRM114
06-29-11, 01:15 PM
Michelle Bachmann would have to double her IQ to be Sarah Palin.

Bachman is a lawyer. Palin was trained to be a weather girl.

CRM114
06-29-11, 01:17 PM
This is what I always say. Why do the candidates (even the Democrates) want to be associated with these artists? Why did the Clintons want to be associated with Fleetwood Mac? A group comprised of a bunch of people who abused drugs and cheated on their spouses. Oh wait.

Because they are ,um, liberal?

CRM114
06-29-11, 01:19 PM
I remember Petty pissing off liberals in the 80's with that huge Confederate flag backdrop on the Southern Accents tour. He told his critics to fuck off. I really don't know what his politics are, but you really don't have to be an ideologue to resent someone taking something that you created and co-opting it for a political agenda. Something like that could be misinterpreted as a stamp of approval.

Only liberals disapprove of the Confederate flag?

Ky-Fi
06-29-11, 01:24 PM
Hopefully this won't stop Romney from using "Insane in the Membrane".

DVD Josh
06-29-11, 01:35 PM
Michelle Bachmann would have to double her IQ to be Sarah Palin.

I can promise you head to head, Bachmann probably has a higher IQ than 99% of America.

kvrdave
06-29-11, 01:52 PM
This is what I always say. Why do the candidates (even the Democrates) want to be associated with these artists? Why did the Clintons want to be associated with Fleetwood Mac? A group comprised of a bunch of people who abused drugs and cheated on their spouses. Oh wait.

It's all packaging. Most don't care about the politics of an artist. They just want the soundclip of some catchy tune.

clappj
06-29-11, 01:57 PM
Only liberals disapprove of the Confederate flag?

Who said that?

Th0r S1mpson
06-29-11, 01:58 PM
It's all packaging. Most don't care about the politics of an artist. They just want the soundclip of some catchy tune.

No kidding. Do some people here really only enjoy music from artists that you agree with completely from a political standpoint? :confused:

clappj
06-29-11, 02:06 PM
No kidding. Do some people here really only enjoy music from artists that you agree with completely from a political standpoint? :confused:

Not me. I can't stand it when I go to concerts, and have to listen to a lead singer's political agenda, throughout the show.
Shut the fuck up, and sing. That's what the crowd is paying you for.

CRM114
06-29-11, 02:10 PM
No kidding. Do some people here really only enjoy music from artists that you agree with completely from a political standpoint? :confused:

It's pretty easy considering most artists are liberal politically. So yes. :) I know I liked Dennis Hopper a lot less when he went all grumpy dad on me.

CRM114
06-29-11, 02:13 PM
Not me. I can't stand it when I go to concerts, and have to listen to a lead singer's political agenda, throughout the show.
Shut the fuck up, and sing. That's what the crowd is paying you for.

You are at the wrong show, gramps.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0115718c3a58970b-400wi

slop101
06-29-11, 02:23 PM
Michelle Bachmann would have to double her IQ to be Sarah Palin.The main difference between Bachmann and Palin is that Palin is a rather mean and hateful person. Bachmann seems relatively nice, though otherwise dim.

All politicians have their fair share of stupid shit they've said, but Bachmann takes the cake for the relatively short time she's been around:


1. "I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out under another, then under another Democrat president, Jimmy Carter. I'm not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it's an interesting coincidence." -Rep. Michele Bachmann, on the 1976 Swine Flu outbreak that happened when Gerald Ford, a Republican, was president, April 28, 2009

2. "There are hundreds and hundreds of scientists, many of them holding Nobel Prizes, who believe in intelligent design." -Rep. Michele Bachmann, Oct. 2006

3. "Carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn't even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas." -Rep. Michelle Bachmann, April, 2009

4. "Well what I want them to know is just like, John Wayne was from Waterloo, Iowa. That's the kind of spirit that I have, too" -Rep. Michele Bachmann, getting her John Waynes mixed up during an interview after launching her presidential campaign in Waterloo, Iowa, where she grew up. The beloved movie star John Wayne was born in Winterset, Iowa, three hours away. The John Wayne that Waterloo was home to is John Wayne Gacy, a notorious serial killer. (June 2011)

5. "I wish the American media would take a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out: Are they pro-America or anti-America?" -Rep. Michelle Bachmann, calling for a new McCarthyism, Oct. 2008

6. "Take this into consideration. If we look at American history, between 1942 and 1947, the data that was collected by the Census Bureau was handed over to the FBI and other organizations at the request of President Roosevelt, and that's how the Japanese were rounded up and put into the internment camps. I'm not saying that that's what the Administration is planning to do, but I am saying that private personal information that was given to the Census Bureau in the 1940s was used against Americans to round them up, in a violation of their constitutional rights, and put the Japanese in internment camps." -Rep. Michele Bachmann, June 2009

7. "If we took away the minimum wage -- if conceivably it was gone -- we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level." Michele Bachmann, Jan. 2005

8. "During the last 100 days we have seen an orgy. It would make any local smorgasbord embarrassed … The government spent its wad by April 26." -Rep. Michele Bachmann, accusing the Obama administration of premature fiscal ejaculation, May 2009

9. "That's why people need to continue to go to the town halls, continue to melt the phone lines of their liberal members of Congress, and let them know, under no certain circumstances will I give the government control over my body and my health care decisions." -Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN), a pro-lifer who completely missed the irony of using the same slogan as the pro-choice movement in arguing against health care reform

10. "Does that mean that someone's 13-year-old daughter could walk into a sex clinic, have a pregnancy test done, be taken away to the local Planned Parenthood abortion clinic, have their abortion, be back and go home on the school bus? That night, mom and dad are never the wiser." -Rep. Michele Bachmann, on health care reform's potential to dupe parents, October 2009Or for shits and giggles, you can also try the Michele Bachmann Insane-O-Matic Quote Generator (http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl-michele-bachmann-quotes.htm)!

Ky-Fi
06-29-11, 02:34 PM
Eh, I don't know. I will admit that most musicians seem to be liberal-leaning, but I don't seem to have much trouble finding cutting-edge artists that share my world view:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BaxMlnoKZyY/SVBQVYoLsBI/AAAAAAAAA5w/TBAf5j6dozE/s400/father-robert-wright-reverernd-rythm.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qn2N229KRXQ/TRX2p1Fw3mI/AAAAAAAABz8/BZ1JKR348b8/s1600/67-1.jpg

kvrdave
06-29-11, 02:38 PM
Not me. I can't stand it when I go to concerts, and have to listen to a lead singer's political agenda, throughout the show.
Shut the fuck up, and sing. That's what the crowd is paying you for.

No shit. Went to R.E.M. around 1990 and had to listen to crap between songs like, "This one goes out to the Exxon corporation..."

Shut the fuck up and entertain me, bitch. I may not have paid for this ticket, but I won it, and I want you to quit sucking ass.

Groucho
06-29-11, 02:39 PM
The main difference between Bachmann and Palin is that Palin is a rather mean and hateful person. Bachmann seems relatively nice, though otherwise dim.Also, Bachmann actually wants to be president. If Palin runs (and I don't think she will) it would only serve as a vehicle for self-promotion.

Jaymole
06-29-11, 02:45 PM
No shit. Went to R.E.M. around 1990 and had to listen to crap between songs like, "This one goes out to the Exxon corporation..."

Shut the fuck up and entertain me, bitch. I may not have paid for this ticket, but I won it, and I want you to quit sucking ass.

I agree.

I went to a Rage Against the Machine concert and I was so upset...just shut the fuck up and hum the lyrics!

clappj
06-29-11, 03:04 PM
I agree.

I went to a Rage Against the Machine concert and I was so upset...just shut the fuck up and hum the lyrics!

That's funny! I wasn't talking about political songs, but rather the extended, in between the songs political rants.

I miss me some Rage! :rock:

Norm de Plume
06-29-11, 05:55 PM
I haven't seen much of Bachmann in action, but surely she isn't as cretinous as Palin. That woman can't even put together a coherent sentence.

kvrdave
06-29-11, 06:27 PM
The main difference between Bachmann and Palin is that Palin is a rather mean and hateful person. Bachmann seems relatively nice, though otherwise dim.


I don't know anything about her. Never seen her on TV. When I hear the name I think of Richard Bachman. But looking on Wiki, she got a degree in tax law from the William & Mary School of Law. No idea what kind of school it is, but I don't think she is dim. Looks like she worked for the IRS for awhile, too.

I'd be thrilled to have someone who has actually held a job other than "community organizer."

But until the process gets much further along, I won't bother to look any further into her life either.

Numanoid
06-29-11, 06:46 PM
Don't we go through this every election cycle? The Republicans have a boring-white-guy candidate that they know will come across as a boring-white-guy, so they run someone in the primaries that is so extreme that everyone wakes up and realizes that they better get behind boring-white-guy. Looked like it was going to be Palin, but she decided she can make <s>more money</s> a bigger difference without running, so they had to stick Bachmann in there. Mitt Romney approves.

Jason
06-29-11, 07:46 PM
Not me. I can't stand it when I go to concerts, and have to listen to a lead singer's political agenda, throughout the show.
Shut the fuck up, and sing. That's what the crowd is paying you for.

I saw Ted Nugent opening at the KISS farewell tour (wow, was it really 11 years ago?) and while he had an incredibly tight rhythm section backing him up, it was Hillary this, and Janet Reno that, blah blah fucking blah. He even did a song about them. It didn't ruin the show or anything. I was expecting it and it was more funny than anything else, but I could see how some people would be bothered.

I did like how he talked back to some guys down front heckling him though.

Jason
06-29-11, 07:47 PM
I haven't seen much of Bachmann in action, but surely she isn't as cretinous as Palin. That woman can't even put together a coherent sentence.

She's this cycle's Fred Thompson. Everyone is dying for her to get in the race, but once she actually does, she'll fizzle fast.

Jason
06-29-11, 07:49 PM
I don't know anything about her. Never seen her on TV. When I hear the name I think of Richard Bachman. But looking on Wiki, she got a degree in tax law from the William & Mary School of Law. No idea what kind of school it is, but I don't think she is dim. Looks like she worked for the IRS for awhile, too.

She got her first JD from fuckin' Oral Roberts University. The W&M degree came later.

Edited because I didn't read the whole wiki article. Oops.

FiveO
06-29-11, 08:26 PM
On behalf of Minnesotans I'd like to personally apologize to all Americans for Michelle Bachmann's words, behavior and beliefs.

There's something in the water in her district...and it ain't good...

slop101
06-30-11, 12:31 AM
I don't know anything about her. Never seen her on TV. When I hear the name I think of Richard Bachman. But looking on Wiki, she got a degree in tax law from the William & Mary School of Law. No idea what kind of school it is, but I don't think she is dim. Looks like she worked for the IRS for awhile, too.

I'd be thrilled to have someone who has actually held a job other than "community organizer."

But until the process gets much further along, I won't bother to look any further into her life either.Maybe she's just good with numbers and rules. But I believe her quotes speak for themselves as to her intellectual capabilities.

JasonF
06-30-11, 01:16 AM
Michele Bachmann's campaign theme song, take two:

Katrina and the Waves Join Tom Petty's Fight Against Michele Bachmann
Bachmann played their 1985 hit 'Walking On Sunshine' at a campaign event

By Andy Greene
June 29, 2011 3:50 PM ET

Katrina & The Waves – whose 1985 song "Walking On Sunshine" was played by Michele Bachmann at a South Carolina campaign rally on Tuesday – have issued a statement on their website:

Katrina & The Waves would like it to be known that they do not endorse the use of 'Walking On Sunshine' by Michele Bachmann and have instructed their lawyers accordingly.

The group is the second musical act this week to object to the Minnesota Congresswoman's usage of their music. Tom Petty sent the Bachmann campaign a cease and desist letter after she used his song "American Girl" at her campaign kick-off in Iowa on Monday. At a rally the following day, she played 29 seconds of "American Girl" before "Walking On Sunshine" kicked in. Looks like she'll have to find a third song now. Any suggestions?

UPDATE: Rolling Stone has received a statement from Katrina Leskanich, former lead singer of Katrina & The Waves:

As the singer of 'Walking on Sunshine' I don't endorse its use by Michele Bachmann's presidential campaign. I've performed ‘Walking on Sunshine’ for so many years in so many different countries that it’s become the one constant in my life and the one thing I can count on to bring happiness to myself and others. The song is used in commercials and movies as a vehicle for a feel good moment or empowerment but if I disagree with the policies, opinions or platforms for its use, I've no choice but to try and defend the song and prevent its misuse. Music can be both powerful and moving and sometimes even a little dangerous.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/katrina-and-the-waves-join-tom-pettys-fight-against-michele-bachmann-20110629

Supermallet
06-30-11, 02:34 AM
No shit. Went to R.E.M. around 1990 and had to listen to crap between songs like, "This one goes out to the Exxon corporation..."

Shut the fuck up and entertain me, bitch. I may not have paid for this ticket, but I won it, and I want you to quit sucking ass.

I was going to say, what's Dave doing at an R.E.M. show? They sound nothing like Manfred Mann's Earth Band.

CRM114
06-30-11, 08:03 AM
She's this cycle's Fred Thompson. Everyone is dying for her to get in the race, but once she actually does, she'll fizzle fast.

I think John Huntsman is Fred Thompson. A big group pushed for his entrance and that was followed by a giant 'meh.'

Talkin2Phil
06-30-11, 08:06 AM
"Take it easy baby
Make it last all night"

Michelle, you're such a tease

kvrdave
06-30-11, 09:31 AM
She got her first JD from fuckin' Oral Roberts University. The W&M degree came later.

Edited because I didn't read the whole wiki article. Oops.

I assume that exempted her from taking the bar exam.

orangecrush
06-30-11, 09:32 AM
Bachman is a lawyer. Palin was trained to be a weather girl.Yeah, Bachman really isn't stupid.

orangecrush
06-30-11, 09:46 AM
The main difference between Bachmann and Palin is that Palin is a rather mean and hateful person. Bachmann seems relatively nice, though otherwise dim.

All politicians have their fair share of stupid shit they've said, but Bachmann takes the cake for the relatively short time she's been around:

Or for shits and giggles, you can also try the Michele Bachmann Insane-O-Matic Quote Generator (http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl-michele-bachmann-quotes.htm)!
I’ll grant you #1. I have re-read it a couple of times now and still have no idea what she is trying to say
#2 is defiantly true
#3 is likely true (depending on what she meant by harmful)
#4 is a flub more than stupid
#5 could be ridiculous beyond belief, but I would have to see the context of the statement to decide
#6 is the classic “I’m not saying, I’m just saying,” A ridiculous device to use? Yes. Does it show she is unintelligent? No.
#7 is likely wrong, but her underlying dislike of the minimum wage is debatable. Many economists think that the minimum wage is a net negative for society.
#8 isn’t really a stupid or smart thing. It is just an exaggeration.
#9 I see the irony, but a stupid thing to say?
#10 defiantly needs some context to judge.

orangecrush
06-30-11, 09:48 AM
I'm not talking about your CD, I'm talking about Tom Petty's copyright.Serious question: how is copyright like property rights? How do they differ? I think I understand property rights pretty well, but copyright seems kind of weird to me.

kvrdave
06-30-11, 09:59 AM
Serious question: how is copyright like property rights? How do they differ? I think I understand property rights pretty well, but copyright seems kind of weird to me.

Property rights can be restricted and taken away without compensation. Copyrights owned by artists are sacred.

BambooLounge
06-30-11, 10:06 AM
Fixed.

Yep...that was the point. How could anyone be dumb enough to actually say that. The statement is so obviously "broken."

orangecrush
06-30-11, 10:25 AM
Property rights can be restricted and taken away without compensation. Copyrights owned by artists are sacred.:lol: Not the Railroad's property rights.

madcougar
06-30-11, 10:47 AM
<s>Pssst- no fixing posts in the political forum.</s> Great fix Madcougar! You're a gentleman and a scholar!

Fixed.

X
06-30-11, 11:09 AM
Fixed.I'll point you to this rule warning against fixing posts in this forum:

The rules:
- No "fixing" posts: This means when someone posts an opinion or point of view you're not allowed to edit or add a couple of words in the quoted portion and write "fixed" after it. This is done in order to limit misrepresentation, and since in most cases its use seems to be done in a manner that is tantamount to a threadcrap or personal attack, "fixed" posts are not allowed in the Political Forum. Such posts will simply be deleted by the moderators and continued abuse may lead to further action. The proper response is to quote the original post exactly and then make your comments outside of the quoted portion.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/politics-world-events/448146-please-read-before-posting-political-forum.htmlRepeated ignoring of the rules results in suspension.

Groucho
06-30-11, 11:10 AM
That rule came about after somebody "fixed" a kvrdave post and made him sound reasonable.

Josh-da-man
06-30-11, 11:47 AM
That rule came about after somebody "fixed" a kvrdave post and made him sound reasonable.

I call shenanigans. I don't think that's possible.

JasonF
06-30-11, 12:04 PM
Serious question: how is copyright like property rights? How do they differ? I think I understand property rights pretty well, but copyright seems kind of weird to me.

I'm not sure how to answer that without writing a book. Copyrights are property rights, but the rights you have in your intellectual property are not exactly identical to the rights you have in physical property -- which makes sense because there are differences between physical property and intellectual property.

But for purposes of this discussion, the important thing is that if you own a copyright in work of art X, with certain exceptions that don't apply here, nobody is allowed to reproduce work of art X without your permission.

Th0r S1mpson
06-30-11, 12:17 PM
But for purposes of this discussion, the important thing is that if you own a copyright in work of art X, with certain exceptions that don't apply here, nobody is allowed to reproduce work of art X without your permission.

Can I still quote work of art X when he posts here? Is he like... Prince? I anxiously await your reply, piece of work JasonF.

Yours,
In the works Thor

JasonF
06-30-11, 12:18 PM
#5 could be ridiculous beyond belief, but I would have to see the context of the statement to decide

<div><iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/27243547#27243547" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 425px;">Visit msnbc.com for <a style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com">Breaking News</a>, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">World News</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">News about the Economy</a></p></div>

The relevant clip is around 10:20, but the whole interview is chock full of "People on the left hate America!"

kvrdave
06-30-11, 12:27 PM
That rule came about after somebody "fixed" a kvrdave post and made him sound reasonable.

I call shenanigans. I don't think that's possible.

:lol:

orangecrush
06-30-11, 12:43 PM
I'm not sure how to answer that without writing a book. Copyrights are property rights, but the rights you have in your intellectual property are not exactly identical to the rights you have in physical property -- which makes sense because there are differences between physical property and intellectual property.

But for purposes of this discussion, the important thing is that if you own a copyright in work of art X, with certain exceptions that don't apply here, nobody is allowed to reproduce work of art X without your permission.Are cover bands illegal if they don't get permission? Limited public broadcast (listening to CD on bombox at work)? If the use isn't for financial gain, does that make a difference?

orangecrush
06-30-11, 12:45 PM
<div><iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/27243547#27243547" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 425px;">Visit msnbc.com for <a style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com">Breaking News</a>, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">World News</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">News about the Economy</a></p></div>

The relevant clip is around 10:20, but the whole interview is chock full of "People on the left hate America!"I'll try to check the clip out when I get home. The "lefties hate America" rhetoric is as annoying as it is common.

JasonF
06-30-11, 01:05 PM
Caveat: I'm not an IP lawyer and I haven't really looked at this stuff closely since law school

Are cover bands illegal if they don't get permission?

No, but only because there's a weird carve-out in copyright law for music. Basically, the law requires songwriters to license their songs to anybody who wants to do a cover version, provided the original version has been released. So you're allowed to do your own version of any song Bob Dylan has written, provided Bob Dylan (or someone else acting with Dylan's permission) has previously recorded and released. However, if you got your hands on an unreleased Dylan demo, you're not allowed to do a cover of that (unless you get Dylan's permission). You do have to pay Dylan a royalty. And the compulsory license only gives you a right to record and perform the cover, not to broadcast it.

Limited public broadcast (listening to CD on bombox at work)?

Listening to a boom box doesn't count as a broadcast. But if you want to play the radio in your place of business, you need a license from every performer and songwriter whose work you want to broadcast. This is generally done in bulk through three organizations -- ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC. Basically, all songwriters and performers sign up with one of those organizations and those organizations have licensing agreements that cover all of their clients. From time to time, you see a news story about some bar getting in trouble because they play the radio and don't have and ASCAP, BMI, SESAC licenses.

By the way, if you ever pay attention to the warnings at the begining of your DVDs, one of those says something like "this DVD is for home use only. Any public performance is strictly prohibited." Same deal as with the songs.

If the use isn't for financial gain, does that make a difference?

One of the defenses to a copyright infringement claim is fair use. Courts look at four things to determine if a use is a fair use:
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
Courts are supposed to look at the totality of the alleged infringement, so it's not an automatic "If you have 3 out of 4 of these you automatically win, and if you only have 1 out of 4 you automatically lose."

According to this article (http://m.ibtimes.com/tom-petty-and-michele-bachmann-171105.html):

No appellate circuit has yet ruled on such issues as fair use and the validity of the implied endorsement claim. Nevertheless, the DeVore case [involving the use of two Don Henley songs without permission] came the closest to a final ruling in favor of musicians and against politicians when the judge rejected [California Senate candidate Chuck] DeVore's defenses in the pre-trial phase.

However, DeVore used music in a political campaign ad. A dispute over music played at a campaign event, like the developing Petty vs. Bachmann sued, is an entirely new legal debate. Arguably, so long as a campaign purchases a license from the performance rights organization ASCAP, it should stand on solid ground. On the other hand, Petty could still claim that such music constituted an implied endorsement of the Republican candidate.

madcougar
06-30-11, 01:25 PM
I'll point you to this rule warning against fixing posts in this forum:

Repeated ignoring of the rules results in suspension.

Understood Mein Führer! First fix was out of ignorance. Second fix was a feable attempt to be funny.

CRM114
06-30-11, 01:31 PM
A fix is a fix. This is Politics not Book Talk.

orangecrush
06-30-11, 01:43 PM
Caveat: I'm not an IP lawyer and I haven't really looked at this stuff closely since law school



No, but only because there's a weird carve-out in copyright law for music. Basically, the law requires songwriters to license their songs to anybody who wants to do a cover version, provided the original version has been released. So you're allowed to do your own version of any song Bob Dylan has written, provided Bob Dylan (or someone else acting with Dylan's permission) has previously recorded and released. However, if you got your hands on an unreleased Dylan demo, you're not allowed to do a cover of that (unless you get Dylan's permission). You do have to pay Dylan a royalty. And the compulsory license only gives you a right to record and perform the cover, not to broadcast it.



Listening to a boom box doesn't count as a broadcast. But if you want to play the radio in your place of business, you need a license from every performer and songwriter whose work you want to broadcast. This is generally done in bulk through three organizations -- ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC. Basically, all songwriters and performers sign up with one of those organizations and those organizations have licensing agreements that cover all of their clients. From time to time, you see a news story about some bar getting in trouble because they play the radio and don't have and ASCAP, BMI, SESAC licenses.

By the way, if you ever pay attention to the warnings at the begining of your DVDs, one of those says something like "this DVD is for home use only. Any public performance is strictly prohibited." Same deal as with the songs.



One of the defenses to a copyright infringement claim is fair use. Courts look at four things to determine if a use is a fair use:
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
Courts are supposed to look at the totality of the alleged infringement, so it's not an automatic "If you have 3 out of 4 of these you automatically win, and if you only have 1 out of 4 you automatically lose."

According to this article (http://m.ibtimes.com/tom-petty-and-michele-bachmann-171105.html):Thanks for taking the time to explain that. This sounds like an area where the lawyers charge more per hour than in real estate law.

wishbone
06-30-11, 01:47 PM
No, but only because there's a weird carve-out in copyright law for music. Basically, the law requires songwriters to license their songs to anybody who wants to do a cover version, provided the original version has been released. So you're allowed to do your own version of any song Bob Dylan has written, provided Bob Dylan (or someone else acting with Dylan's permission) has previously recorded and released. However, if you got your hands on an unreleased Dylan demo, you're not allowed to do a cover of that (unless you get Dylan's permission). You do have to pay Dylan a royalty. And the compulsory license only gives you a right to record and perform the cover, not to broadcast it.Didn't Lady Gaga deny a parody request from Weird Al? Does the cover need to be a note-by-note, word-for-word version of the original? Megadeth included a censored version of These Boots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/These_Boots_Are_Made_for_Walkin%27) on a remastered album since Lee Hazlewood had some issues with their added profanity.

wendersfan
06-30-11, 01:50 PM
Are cover bands illegal if they don't get permission? Limited public broadcast (listening to CD on bombox at work)? If the use isn't for financial gain, does that make a difference?
N.B. This isn't in any way a correction of what JasonF posted (which was accurate to the best of my knowledge), but merely an amplification about this specific thing. As he said bar owners are supposed to pay fees to ASCAP, et. al., and that covers (no pun intended) all the artists that walk through their doors, plus the jukebox and what have you. The publishing companies take these things very seriously. So, individual bands don't have to worry about getting in trouble if they play "Roll Over Beethoven" or "Crazy Train"; it's assumed that the venue has paid all the licensing fees.

JasonF
06-30-11, 01:53 PM
Didn't Lady Gaga deny a parody request from Weird Al? Does the cover need to be a note-by-note, word-for-word version of the original? Megadeth included a censored version of These Boots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/These_Boots_Are_Made_for_Walkin%27)
since Lee Hazlewood had some issues with their added profanity.

Here's what the statute says:

A compulsory license includes the privilege of making a musical arrangement of the work to the extent necessary to conform it to the style or manner of interpretation of the performance involved, but the arrangement shall not change the basic melody or fundamental character of the work, and shall not be subject to protection as a derivative work under this title, except with the express consent of the copyright owner.

I don't know the cases well enough to say how courts have interpreted phrases like "the fundamental character of the work."

With respect to parody, parody can be fair use, but is not necessarily fair use. There was a big lawsuit about 20 years ago over 2 Live Crew's parody of Pretty Woman. Here's what the Supreme Court said: "The fact that parody can claim legitimacy for some appropriation does not, of course, tell either parodist or judge much about where to draw the line. Like a book review quoting the copyrighted material criticized, parody may or may not be fair use, and petitioner's suggestion that any parodic use is presumptively fair has no more justification in law or fact than the equally hopeful claim that any use for news reporting should be presumed fair."

My understanding is that Weird Al asks artists if he can parody them as a coutesy, and refuses to parody anybody who won't give him permission. Not because he thinks he's legally barred from doing a parody without permission, but just because his own sense of courtesy and ethics make him draw that line.

kvrdave
06-30-11, 02:01 PM
Understood Mein Führer! First fix was out of ignorance. Second fix was a feable attempt to be funny.

I knew that. But there is no humor in the political forum. :lol:

kvrdave
06-30-11, 02:06 PM
My understanding is that Weird Al asks artists if he can parody them as a coutesy, and refuses to parody anybody who won't give him permission. Not because he thinks he's legally barred from doing a parody without permission, but just because his own sense of courtesy and ethics make him draw that line.

That is my understanding as well. Prince won't give him permission either.

JasonF
06-30-11, 02:42 PM
That is my understanding as well. Prince won't give him permission either.

It's worse than that:

Wired.com: The Prince story is kind of notorious. Have you ever had any encounters with him?

“Weird Al”: I’ve never officially met Prince. I’ve been in the same room with him many times and never actually met him. I haven’t approached him for parody for quite some time but in the ’80s and early ’90s, there were a number of songs I wanted to do and he’s always turned them down and never really given a reason — all he would say was “no.”

’But one of the oddest things to ever happen between me and Prince was the year that he and I were at the American Music Awards at the same time. Apparently I was going to be sitting in the same row as Prince that year and I got a telegram — and I wasn’t the only one — from Prince’s management company saying that I was not to establish eye contact with him during the show. I just couldn’t even believe it.

So immediately I sent back a telegram saying that he shouldn’t be establishing eye contact with me either. I think he was peaking right about then. That’s when he was bringing his bodyguard onstage with him. He’d win an award and bring his bodyguard onstage like Kenny Rogers was going to pull a knife on him or something.

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/06/weird-al-yankovic-alpocalypse/all/1

This is an interview from about a week ago, and Weird Al talks pretty extensively about his experience in getting permission (or not) for his parodies.

kvrdave
06-30-11, 03:24 PM
It's worse than that:



http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/06/weird-al-yankovic-alpocalypse/all/1

This is an interview from about a week ago, and Weird Al talks pretty extensively about his experience in getting permission (or not) for his parodies.

:lol: Awesome. I know Prince wouldn't allow Rock Band or Guitar Hero to use his music because he thought kids should learn to play a real guitar instead.

I love much of his music, but he's a douche.

wishbone
06-30-11, 03:38 PM
...I was not to establish eye contact with him during the show.If they were standing they would probably see over his head so not that big of a deal. :shrug:

madcougar
06-30-11, 03:52 PM
I knew that. But there is no humor in the political forum. :lol:

Apparently!

Mabuse
06-30-11, 04:29 PM
:lol: Awesome. I know Prince wouldn't allow Rock Band or Guitar Hero to use his music because he thought kids should learn to play a real guitar instead.

That's actually one of the least weird things I've heard him say.

Josh-da-man
06-30-11, 06:10 PM
If you want to hear some hilarious Prince shit, Kevin Smith does a long spiel about working with Prince on one of his "Evening With..." DVDs. Apparently, Prince hired Kevin to do some kind of documentary thing, and Kevin never bothered signing the NDA and nobody noticed until it was too late...

Th0r S1mpson
06-30-11, 06:18 PM
Apparently!

You better not have chuckled while typing that.

DJLinus
06-30-11, 07:43 PM
If you want to hear some hilarious Prince shit, Kevin Smith does a long spiel about working with Prince on one of his "Evening With..." DVDs. Apparently, Prince hired Kevin to do some kind of documentary thing, and Kevin never bothered signing the NDA and nobody noticed until it was too late...

As much as I tired of Smith over the years, I still think that story is a classic and rivals his one about the "Superman" movie meeting (also on that DVD).

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gy_cLJ19HMg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a9O130NYr_4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rCm4Jxo3ltE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Vo0LbQzdz1A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

RunBandoRun
06-30-11, 08:09 PM
To Ms. Bachmann: It don't really matter to me, baby; you believe what you want to believe ... but I think somewhere, somehow, somebody musta kicked you around some. :D

madcougar
07-01-11, 10:17 AM
You better not have chuckled while typing that.

Apparently... :(

kvrdave
07-01-11, 12:08 PM
As much as I tired of Smith over the years, I still think that story is a classic and rivals his one about the "Superman" movie meeting (also on that DVD).


Not a Smith fan, but that was amazing. :up:

Mabuse
07-01-11, 01:14 PM
The Prince story is the greatest. It's truely a great story told very well. Telling that story may be the best thing Kevin Smith has ever done. And I like his films.

The strange thing is that even though Prince comes off like a complete wacko he somehow retains his dignity. My opinion of Prince was actually enhanced after I heard that story. I guess it's because even though he comes off as wacko the story humanizes him. Like the bit about how he likes to play basketball and wears sneakers.

kvrdave
07-01-11, 02:04 PM
The Prince story is the greatest. It's truely a great story told very well. Telling that story may be the best thing Kevin Smith has ever done. And I like his films.

The strange thing is that even though Prince comes off like a complete wacko he somehow retains his dignity. My opinion of Prince was actually enhanced after I heard that story. I guess it's because even though he comes off as wacko the story humanizes him. Like the bit about how he likes to play basketball and wears sneakers.

Or the fact that asking for a camel in January at 3am in Minnesota isn't a malicious thing, he just doesn't understand reality.

If the bra fits....

adamblast
07-01-11, 02:12 PM
If the bra fits....He really *doesn't* like to talk about shoes, does he?

kvrdave
07-01-11, 03:07 PM
:lol:

focker
07-01-11, 04:02 PM
That was a great story. Between that and Charlie Murphy's classic bit on the Chappelle Show, Prince really looks like he's coocoo for cocoa puffs.

Supermallet
07-01-11, 04:23 PM
Any man who can drive me close to tears just by playing a guitar can be as cuckoo as he wants.

Groucho
07-01-11, 04:27 PM
Any man who can drive me close to tears just by playing a guitar can be as cuckoo as he wants.I think we've strayed way off topic. What does James Blunt have to do with all this?

Supermallet
07-01-11, 04:30 PM
:mad:

LiquidSky
07-01-11, 07:19 PM
If Tom has control of the song and he doesn't want Bachmann using it, it's his decision. I would feel the same way if a liberal wanted to use a conservative's song without permission.

RunBandoRun
07-01-11, 09:40 PM
If Tom has control of the song and he doesn't want Bachmann using it, it's his decision. I would feel the same way if a liberal wanted to use a conservative's song without permission.

I felt the same way when Ronald Reagan used "Born in the USA" for his 1984 campaign. If we needed any proof that the guy was non compos mentis, that pushed it over the edge. :lol:

crazyronin
07-02-11, 08:41 AM
If Tom has control of the song and he doesn't want Bachmann using it, it's his decision. I would feel the same way if a liberal wanted to use a conservative's song without permission.

Mr. Petty doesn't have "control" of the song. As a member, he has licensed the public performance rights to ASCAP. As long as the Bachmann campaign bought a traveling blanket license from ASCAP, Petty has no standing in copyright.

Now in trademark I would say that, unless Bachmann starts using the tune in campaign adverts, public performance does not equal endorsement. If a campaign were using "Ode to Joy" as campaign music, a reasonable person would not think that Beethoven was endorsing a candidate. The same goes for Mr. Petty's tepid little ditty.

Supermallet
07-02-11, 12:16 PM
I always assumed Beethoven sent his political endorsements from beyond the grave.

rw2516
07-02-11, 03:35 PM
Mr. Petty doesn't have "control" of the song. As a member, he has licensed the public performance rights to ASCAP. As long as the Bachmann campaign bought a traveling blanket license from ASCAP, Petty has no standing in copyright.

Now in trademark I would say that, unless Bachmann starts using the tune in campaign adverts, public performance does not equal endorsement. If a campaign were using "Ode to Joy" as campaign music, a reasonable person would not think that Beethoven was endorsing a candidate. The same goes for Mr. Petty's tepid little ditty.

Petty controls his recording. If they had a band playing the song at her appearances then the public performance rights would apply.

Petty plays other people's songs all the time in concert. Only when he puts those performances on a live album/video does he have to pony up some cash, just as if they had been recorded for a studio album. The public performance clearance is for stuff like the high school band playing "Hey Jude" at the homecoming football game, etc. Someone correct me if I mistaken.

crazyronin
07-03-11, 08:36 AM
Petty controls his recording. If they had a band playing the song at her appearances then the public performance rights would apply.

Petty plays other people's songs all the time in concert. Only when he puts those performances on a live album/video does he have to pony up some cash, just as if they had been recorded for a studio album. The public performance clearance is for stuff like the high school band playing "Hey Jude" at the homecoming football game, etc. Someone correct me if I mistaken.

So every bar that has a TP&tHB song on their jukebox has to get Mr. Petty's personal permission?

or do they get an ASCAP venue license?

What is a public performance?

A public performance is one that occurs either in a public place or any place where people gather (other than a small circle of a family or its social acquaintances.) A public performance is also one that is transmitted to the public; for example, radio or television broadcasts, music-on-hold, cable television, and by the internet. Generally, those who publicly perform music obtain permission from the owner of the music or his representative. However, there are a few limited exceptions, (called "exemptions") to this rule. Permission is not required for music played or sung as part of a worship service unless that service is transmitted beyond where it takes place (for example, a radio or television broadcast). Performances as part of face to face teaching activity at a non-profit educational institutions are also exempt.

We recommend that you contact your local ASCAP representative who can discuss your needs and how ASCAP can help you.


What does the ASCAP license do?

ASCAP gives you a license to entertain your customers, guests and employees with the world's largest musical repertory. One of the greatest advantages of the ASCAP license is that it gives you the right to perform ANY or ALL of the millions of the musical works in our repertory. Whether your music is live, broadcast, transmitted or played via CD's or videos, your ASCAP license covers your performances. And with one license fee, ASCAP saves you the time, expense, and burden of contacting thousands of copyright owners.


ASCAP licensing faq (http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensingfaq.aspx)