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DVD Reviews

View Full Version : A Dance With Dragons - July 12th


superdeluxe
06-28-11, 11:23 AM
Apparently Amazon.de had some of the books early, and spoilers are starting to come out.

Has anyone been spoiled yet? I guess a bunch of users in neogaf got spoiled by someone posting spoilers with out spoiler tags.

Noonan
06-28-11, 12:11 PM
I'd be pissed if I stumbled across a spoiler after waiting this long for the book to come out.

I'm all caught up after re-reading the first 4 and my copy has been pre-ordered on Amazon since the announcement. The 12th can't get here soon enough!

mgbfan
06-28-11, 12:59 PM
I'm probably about ready to tune out all the book discussion. There just comes a point where it's not worth the risk.

Noonan
06-28-11, 02:26 PM
I agree. It'd be nice to have a thread like this running so people can remind themselves of where characters stand leading up to the book but I'd be too concerned to see some spoiler posted.

superdeluxe
06-28-11, 02:31 PM
Yeah I'm guessing I won't come back to this thread until I am done with it. a couple more weeks :)

KirstenS
06-28-11, 02:31 PM
Westeros.org has closed their DwD forum completely because of the leak, and they're heavily moderating all their other forums. I'll keep visiting there, but I'll stay away from comments in any GoT tv show articles and the like. I already managed to spoil myself months/years ago a bit by reading the Jon, Tyrion, Dany, and Reek chapters that GRRM posted on his website and the different Amazon sites. I just couldn't wait! If I'm spoiled on anything other than that though, I'll be pissed.

superdeluxe
06-28-11, 04:18 PM
Freaking Knew IT!. ARGHdasdhjafkhdgkhdgkhasfkdhgsdkgh

Got spoiled by facebook

Groucho
06-28-11, 04:32 PM
Book 4 has been a slow read for me. Too many chapters from the POV of new random characters I don't care about. I hope I can finish it in time.

Noonan
06-28-11, 04:35 PM
Book 4 has been a slow read for me. Too many chapters from the POV of new random characters I don't care about. I hope I can finish it in time.
Ain't that the truth. It was a total grind the first time I read through it. If it helps, it definitely picks up towards the end but not to the level of any of the first 3.

KirstenS
06-29-11, 09:08 AM
Book 4 has been a slow read for me. Too many chapters from the POV of new random characters I don't care about. I hope I can finish it in time.

I had the same problem the first time I read it until about halfway through. Now, on rereads, it's become one of my favorites. I could do without the Greyjoys, but I love all the other POVs, especially the Dorne chapters.

DaveNinja
06-29-11, 12:36 PM
i'm re-reading the 3rd book now, i doubt i'll make it to the forth book before DwD is released. i just read the series for the first time last year so i should be okay.

Cusm
06-29-11, 01:32 PM
I had the same problem the first time I read it until about halfway through. Now, on rereads, it's become one of my favorites. I could do without the Greyjoys, but I love all the other POVs, especially the Dorne chapters.

The Greyjoys annoyed the hell out of me, especially the priest borther, the others were not as bad.

bdshort
07-01-11, 09:14 AM
Rereading here as well, but I'm still on Game of Thrones! Haven't read Crows yet either, though I've owned the hardback since it came out. Re-purchased Thrones, and will buy Kings, for the Kindle, but since I have #3 and #4 in hardback I'll read the real books of those. Not sure yet if I'll buy the hardcover or the Kindle edition of Dragons.

MoviePage
07-04-11, 03:22 PM
The spoiler issue (http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/07/04/thrones.novel.spoilers.ew/index.html?hpt=hp_c2) made the front page of CNN! There are no spoilers in the article itself.

Note: just in case this is your first time on the internet, I'd advise against scrolling down to the Comments section.

MrX
07-07-11, 12:44 PM
FYI the review embargo ended today.

I've been read a few on mainstream sites, I figure you're safest from spoilers there, and they have all been positive.

KirstenS
07-07-11, 12:44 PM
The review embargo has been lifted, and the reviews are looking fantastic so far. Westeros has a running list here:

http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/The_Review_Floodgates_Open/

Alvis
07-07-11, 01:28 PM
Review from NPR:

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/07/137652436/r-r-martins-sardonic-epic-for-an-ambivalent-age?sc=fb&cc=fp

Probably also at the sight linked in the previous post.

superdeluxe
07-07-11, 02:11 PM
Time's glowing review:

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2081774,00.html

"Masterpiece worthy of Tolkien"

Reading a novel is a little like commanding a battle: you're always reconnoitering, trying to guess where the author will go next, what's a feint and where the action is really heading. I don't know when I have ever been as comprehensively and pleasurably out-generalled as when I read Martin. He raises and raises the stakes, long past when any other writer would have walked away from the table, and just when you think he's done, he goes all in. There is, apparently, no piece he will not sacrifice, no character that you (and one suspects, he) love so much that he will not orchestrate that character's doom.

superdeluxe
07-07-11, 02:25 PM
Daily Beast Raves:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/06/george-r-r-martin-s-a-dance-with-dragons-the-latest-book-in-his-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series.html

A Dance With Dragons, the longest of the installments of A Song of Ice and Fire to date, might also be Martinís finest work yet, a taut and relentless masterpiece that reaffirms the readerís obsession with the panoply of unforgettable characters that Martin has created, and the brutal, glittering, terrible world in which these novels are set. There are moments of profound loss and of heart-palpitating joy, as dragons dance and the game of thrones plays on, its players and pawns once more beset by woes from home and abroad. Just when it all seems to fall into place, thereís yet another glinting knife, another unexpected disloyalty. Machiavelli, you have met your match in Martin.

GreenMonkey
07-08-11, 12:21 AM
I had the same problem the first time I read it until about halfway through. Now, on rereads, it's become one of my favorites. I could do without the Greyjoys, but I love all the other POVs, especially the Dorne chapters.

I re-read a whole series when the next book comes out. This time...man, even for a fast reader, it's been a LOT of pages. It doesn't help that I have an exam in my history class on Monday that requires I read another 300 pages or so...and studying...ugh.

I've managed to work my way through to about 200 pages into Feast right now. Honestly I think Storm of Swords might be worse than Feast. It's saved only by the events towards the end of the book. Storm spends too much time with people's flashbacks and stories and such - it meanders off-topic a lot. It's saved by the end, though!

I don't mind the other POVs. Cersei annoys me to some extent (paranoid, moody, and doesn't trust anyone...)

I actually kind of like Asha but the other Greyjoys and the whole iron islands culture is just annoying, with their salt wives and their kill and plunder attitudes and such.

bdshort
07-08-11, 04:00 AM
It might be August before I get to read this. Just started re-reading ACoK!!

bdshort
07-09-11, 02:58 PM
Who is planning on buying the e-book over the hardcover? I'm leaning a bit towards the hardback since it's only a few $ more than the Kindle edition.

GreenMonkey
07-09-11, 03:04 PM
I love my Nook and my Nook Color with CM7, but I hate DRM. I rarely buy a DRM'd ebook.

I'll always take a good hardcover of a favorite book - I know it will still be readable in 10 or 20 years. Digital stuff...who knows. Try opening an old DOS or win95 era digital file...even word processors...

Rex Power Colt-Robot Man
07-10-11, 10:57 AM
calibre. makes DRM a thing of the past.

bdshort
07-10-11, 03:34 PM
As someone who has A Feast For Crows but hasn't read more than a third of it, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to try reading it simultaneously with Dance, or if it'll be better to read Crows then Dance. Maybe Martin should release a recommended reading order for those that want to try to read both at the same time.

GreenMonkey
07-10-11, 04:05 PM
calibre. makes DRM a thing of the past.

I'm not going to sidetrack the Dance thread on DRM, but buying DRM supports DRM. I try to do it as little as possible.

I've got no qualms about owning a great hardcover book. I pre-ordered this the day they announced it, being my second favorite series of books, I'm sure I'll have the HC for a few decades.

Gilgamesh1082
07-10-11, 04:05 PM
As someone who has A Feast For Crows but hasn't read more than a third of it, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to try reading it simultaneously with Dance, or if it'll be better to read Crows then Dance. Maybe Martin should release a recommended reading order for those that want to try to read both at the same time.

He has released a reading order. Its "as they've been released." -ptth-

Honestly, read the first three, then you can tag team books 4 and 5.

KirstenS
07-10-11, 04:41 PM
As someone who has A Feast For Crows but hasn't read more than a third of it, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to try reading it simultaneously with Dance, or if it'll be better to read Crows then Dance. Maybe Martin should release a recommended reading order for those that want to try to read both at the same time.

:hscratch:

They're meant to be read in publication order. There are events in Dance that resolve cliffhangers in Feast. If you want to think of Feast as half a book, think of it as the first half of a Feast/Dance combo.

bdshort
07-10-11, 04:53 PM
Ok, will read separately then.

superdeluxe
07-11-11, 09:22 AM
Salon with a rave review, according to Westeros, no spoilers (And upon reading it myself, no spoilers):



http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2011/07/10/a_dance_with_dragons





I couldn't stop reading Martin because my desire to know what was going to happen combined with my absolute inability to guess what would happen and left me helpless before his sorcery. At the end, I felt shaken and exhausted.

I can't recall the last time a work of science fiction or fantasy had that kind of effect on me. I'm almost glad that it will be years before I have to do this all over again. Because it will take me years to recover.

MrX
07-11-11, 12:37 PM
I mistimed my re-reading of Crows so I have around 150 pages to finish tonight.

I went with the e-book for now, I'll grab the hardcover later, so I'll be constantly checking my ipad around midnight.

Groucho
07-11-11, 12:41 PM
Book 4 has been a slow read for me. Too many chapters from the POV of new random characters I don't care about. I hope I can finish it in time.Didn't happen. Whenever I sit down to read this I end up procrastinating with something more interesting, like work or chores.

Alvis
07-11-11, 01:08 PM
I'm only half-way through my re-read of A Storm of Swords. With Dance arriving from Amazon some time this week, I don't if I will be able to make myself re-read the other two books before starting Dance, or just plunge right in.

mugwump
07-11-11, 01:13 PM
I had hoped to re-read the series before the new book came out but it just didn't happen. I'll brush up on the synopses and then dive into the new release and hope for the best. I've read the entire series three times and yet when the miniseries hit HBO there were scenes and characters I didn't recall so my book memory is pretty lacking it would seem.

Noonan
07-11-11, 01:29 PM
I picked up a Nook touch just for this book. I'm sure I'll get more use out of it but I wouldn't of bought one if not for this release. 1040 pages is one giant hardcover.

KirstenS
07-11-11, 03:33 PM
I hate to admit this, but I'm getting both the ebook and hardcover versions. Buying for my kindle because that's my preferred method of reading, and buying a hardcover to get signed by Martin. I have a first edition hardcover of every book in this series signed, so I wasn't about to stop with this one. :)

Noonan
07-11-11, 03:35 PM
Don't feel bad, I'm doing the same thing. I pre-ordered the hardcover on amazon for cheap with free shipping. No worries on when it arrives since I'll be reading it already.

MrX
07-11-11, 08:18 PM
Didn't happen. Whenever I sit down to read this I end up procrastinating with something more interesting, like work or chores.

I count reading the Cersei chapters as a chore.

bdshort
07-12-11, 12:49 AM
Ugh, you guys aren't making me look forward to reading Feast! :( But I'm only a quarter of the way through Clash and I will read everything again before Dance, so it'll be awhile before I get to Feast.

bdshort
07-12-11, 03:11 AM
Kindle edition is now available.

GreenMonkey
07-12-11, 04:16 AM
I count reading the Cersei chapters as a chore.

A little. She thinks she's so clever, but in reality she's just paranoid and doing herself more harm than good. So aggravating!

MrX
07-12-11, 04:23 AM
Stupid Amazon going by Pacfic time.

I made it through the Prologue and the first POV chapter.

KirstenS
07-12-11, 07:34 AM
I turned on my Wifi this morning before work to download my copy. Now my Kindle is sitting there staring at me on my desk, daring me to suddenly come down with a serious illness so I can play hooky from work.

starman9000
07-12-11, 08:48 AM
Happy Dance with Dragons Day!

Cusm
07-12-11, 10:02 AM
UPS can not get here soon enough. I better do any work I planned on doing now before it arrives.

Noonan
07-12-11, 10:08 AM
My Nook is sitting on my desk teasing me right now. I was able to get through the prologue this morning, which was longer than I was expecting. 5:00 seems like so far away.

MrX
07-12-11, 09:07 PM
The second Jon chapter

Is completely badass

I loved how it seemed like he was going to wuss out of hanging Slynt, only to have him pull out Longclaw and behead him.

The nod of approval Stannis gives him afterwards was great as well

MrX
07-13-11, 04:01 AM
I'm through the second Davos chapter, I have no idea what page that is since the kindle version doesn't have numbers

The highlight so far was

The children of the forest saving Bran and company from the Wights. If they make it this far with the HBO show, the scene with Bran taking over Hodor should be good.

Other thoughts:

Theon's chapter was brutal

I wasn't a big fan of the first two Tyrion chapters, Illyrio just isn't a character capable of witty back and forth with him, but the last chapter on the boat was much better.

This is the first time we've seen cracks in Dany's confidence since her dragons were born, now that they are harder to control.

Jon's warg ability seems to have gotten a lot stronger.

Cusm
07-13-11, 09:41 AM
I'm through the second Davos chapter, I have no idea what page that is since the kindle version doesn't have numbers

The highlight so far was

The children of the forest saving Bran and company from the Wights. If they make it this far with the HBO show, the scene with Bran taking over Hodor should be good.

Other thoughts:

Theon's chapter was brutal

I wasn't a big fan of the first two Tyrion chapters, Illyrio just isn't a character capable of witty back and forth with him, but the last chapter on the boat was much better.

This is the first time we've seen cracks in Dany's confidence since her dragons were born, now that they are harder to control.

Jon's warg ability seems to have gotten a lot stronger.

I am at the same spot.


Agree with the Theon chapter, the most brutal thing GRRM has written in the series, I hope he over comes his "training" quickly.

I want to know who the Three-eyed crow is!!!

I was really hoping Davos would skip White Harbor, I am still hoping it is not him that hangs.


I left the book at home today, so the wait til 5:00 is killing me.

KirstenS
07-13-11, 11:10 AM
I am at the same spot.


Agree with the Theon chapter, the most brutal thing GRRM has written in the series, I hope he over comes his "training" quickly.

I want to know who the Three-eyed crow is!!!

I was really hoping Davos would skip White Harbor, I am still hoping it is not him that hangs.


I left the book at home today, so the wait til 5:00 is killing me.

Funny, I'm at the exact same spot. Chewing on my fingernails again to get home and read some more.

Have you read the Dunk and Egg novellas, in particular the last one? If so, you can figure out from the description who



the Three-eyed crow is.



If not, get thee to a bookstore and pick up Warriors I quickly! There are subtle references to that history all over the place in this book. I can't believe how much I've been able to pick up so far such as



Who Griff and Young Griff most likely are



Just from rereading the first 4 novels and the first 3 Dunk/Egg novellas over the past couple months.

Cusm
07-13-11, 01:37 PM
Funny, I'm at the exact same spot. Chewing on my fingernails again to get home and read some more.

Have you read the Dunk and Egg novellas, in particular the last one? If so, you can figure out from the description who



the Three-eyed crow is.



If not, get thee to a bookstore and pick up Warriors I quickly! There are subtle references to that history all over the place in this book. I can't believe how much I've been able to pick up so far such as



Who Griff and Young Griff most likely are



Just from rereading the first 4 novels and the first 3 Dunk/Egg novellas over the past couple months.

Crap! I knew there was something I could have been reading in the 3 weeks since I finished my re-read of the series.

Hiro11
07-14-11, 05:55 PM
My initial thought after the first couple hundred pages: it's the best book of the series. It's got all the wonderfully descriptive prose and grimness of the third book with the narrative drive of the first book. Also, the magical and fantasy elements have been beefed a bit, but treated with such dead seriousness and realism that it's seemless.

Specific thoughts:

1. The Theon / Reek chapter is fucking hardcore awfulness. The Boltons are seriously sick
2. Bran's ventures with Coldhands and co (WTF is he, a sentient wight?) is the best wall / North of the wall material yet in the series. The action setpiece just before they get refuge in the cave is truly exciting and the descriptions of the North are thrillingly evocative.
3. So far, the Tyrion arc is the least exciting, but still really good. The slow, gluttonous carriage ride on the ancient highway is exteremly well rendered and full of solid character development for Tyrion.
4. I can't wait to see what GRRM does with Arya, if anything, in this book.
5. Dragons and unsullied = double edged sword. Dany still has a lot to learn and she knows it. It reminds me a bit of Paul unleashing the Jihad in the second Dune book.

GreenMonkey
07-14-11, 06:10 PM
Funny, I'm at the exact same spot. Chewing on my fingernails again to get home and read some more.

Have you read the Dunk and Egg novellas, in particular the last one? If so, you can figure out from the description who



the Three-eyed crow is.



If not, get thee to a bookstore and pick up Warriors I quickly! There are subtle references to that history all over the place in this book. I can't believe how much I've been able to pick up so far such as


I re-read the first Dunk/Egg novella a few months ago, but I haven't read the rest of them, I'm pretty sure. Maybe I'll sidetrack and read them, I'm about half way through DwD right now.

sven
07-15-11, 02:01 AM
420 pages in and I'm loving it all but Dany's chapters. She still bores the shit out of me.

KirstenS
07-15-11, 08:22 AM
420 pages in and I'm loving it all but Dany's chapters. She still bores the shit out of me.

Agreed. Hoping George does something really really bad to her, just to punish her for annoying me. Everything else is SO good. Right now, I'm 63% in (Kindle edition) and have moved past the Feast timeline. I'm starting to get nervous because I can feel the tension building. This is close to the point where GRRM usually throws in lovely things like Red Weddings and main character beheadings.

MrX
07-15-11, 08:25 PM
I wanted to put the book down, stand up, and applaud after Manderlay's speech in the third Davos chapter.

In regards to the Freys and Boltons killing his son at the Red Wedding

"... but never think that means I have forgotten. The North remembers, Lord Davos. The North remembers, and this mummer's farce is almost done."

MrX
07-16-11, 04:07 AM
Did any one catch in The Prince of Winterfell chapter

Manderly request the singer play Rat Cook after he serves the pie. That's the song Meera told Bran about in Storm of Swords, where the guy killed the sons of the king, then baked them in a pie and fed them to him. I guess that explains where the missing Freys are.

Alvis
07-18-11, 03:54 PM
"He was not wrong."

Usually I love Martin's writing, except maybe the Danerys chapers. But those words, "He was not wrong," have appeared over and over through out the book in various forms. It's like Martin in particularly fond of that statement. Seems kind of sloppy for a writer of Martin's caliber. Kind of like starting every sentence in the same paragraph with the same word. Eventually, people are bound to notice.

Otherwise, love the book.

KirstenS
07-18-11, 11:13 PM
"serjeant" That one drove me crazy.

Alvis
07-19-11, 09:15 AM
"serjeant" That one drove me crazy.

It's the British spelling of sergeant, which I'm sure you already figured out. I guess Westeros is a forerunner of modern Great Britain. :)

KirstenS
07-19-11, 11:33 AM
Oh, I know what the word means, but apparently GRRM just discovered it as well. It didn't show up once in the previous 4 novels, but I saw it in what seemed like every other page on ADWD.

MrX
07-20-11, 02:25 AM
Finished it earlier tonight.

Still processing how I feel about it. Initial reaction is it wasn't as good as ASoS or AGoT, but better than AFoC. I guess I would put it on par with ACoK.

I thought he handled the characters that had smaller parts much better then he did the big 3.

My long thoughts (Specific major spoilers and speculation below)

Jon's death doesn't have the same impact as Ned or Rob just because I don't think we've seen the last him. He's either going to jump into Ghost, which I guess was why Varamyr Sixskins was the narrator for the prologue, and all signs in this one point to him being Azor Ahai reborn. I'm more disappointed that we don't get to see him lead a wildling army to Winterfell to fight the Boltons.I kind of had a feeling something was up because Ghost was acting similar to Grey Wind before the Red Wedding.

Speaking of the Ramsay Bolton, it'll be interesting to see how much of that letter is true. I think the part of him having Mance is probably true, but I can't see Martin killing Stannis off like that. Plus, if Ramsay killed Stannis he should have Theon and Jeyne Poole back since that's where they were last we saw them.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of the Night's Watch now. Also what Sam does when he finds out Jon was murdered by their brothers.

Dany: ugh, the worst part about her story is Martin kept saying the delay was because of Meereen and we are still going to be there next book. Her taking off on Drogon was the one actual awesome moment in her story. Then he follows that up with her wandering around, shitting herself, and hallucinating.

Tyrion: Tyrion's story was up and down. When he was with Illyrio and after he was taken by the slavers, I thought his story suffered. He's at his best when he's at a place where he can manipulate and read people like when he was on the boat with Griff and company. I was greatly disappointed that Dany and him didn't meet up.

I really enjoyed the Bran chapters. Though if his story ends where I think it is going, with him taking Bloodraven's place, that is going to be depressing as hell. I did like the nods to his story where it was hinted he was saying the names of Theon and Jon.

Davos chapters were good as well. His interactions with the Freys and Manderlay were great. Glad he's going after Rickon. I was hoping the epilogue would be Osha or someone who could give us an update on them since we haven't had word on them since the last chapter of the second book.

The Greyjoys were much better here. Victorian is such a badass. The Theon chapters were brutal.

Quentyn Marzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Liked the Selmy chapters

I'm glad we got confirmation Brienne is alive and Arya has her sight back.

I don't see Aegon Targaryen living long enough to take the Iron Throne.

Varys killing Kevan Lannister and Pycelle was an interesting end. I'm guessing he did it to keep the land in chaos until Aegon and Jon Connington are stronger.

I'm interested to see when Cersei has Ser Robert Strong, Zombie Gregor Clegane, fight for her, if the hints that were given in AFoC, Sandor Clegane is alive and working with the Eldest Brother on Quiet Isle, are true and the Hound will be called in by the High Septon and he will get his revenge.

Cusm
07-20-11, 03:32 PM
Finished last night. Great read, again GRRM does a superb job. With that said, I was extremely disappointed in this book, and hate the thought of another 1-2 years (or more like another 4-6) for this and that for the last one to finish this story up.

I am sick of the fake deaths. There is no way in hell Jon is dead. So far he has "killed" about 20 people all of whom have proved otherwise.
This book also went around in circles. Mirreen, end in the same state the story began. Tyrion was enroute and got hijacked 3-4 times.
Must everything be described to the microscopic level?
The idea that nothing will be resolved in the next book and we will get even more shit on our heroes is not the best thing to look forward5 to, hopefully I am wrong and their is more resolution in the next book and the final book is the realm dealing with the mess north of the wall.

Rockroi at westeros.org has an awesome critique/reveiw that sums up my thoughts and is much more eloquent than I could state it.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53896-adwd-spoilers-well-that-was-disappointing/page__st__140__p__2592911#entry2592911

Noonan
07-20-11, 03:40 PM
Geez, you all read fast! 1100 pages in 8 days is nuts. I just broke page 200 last night.

KirstenS
07-20-11, 04:06 PM
Finished last night. Great read, again GRRM does a superb job. With that said, I was extremely disappointed in this book, and hate the thought of another 1-2 years (or more like another 4-6) for this and that for the last one to finish this story up.

I am sick of the fake deaths. There is no way in hell Jon is dead. So far he has "killed" about 20 people all of whom have proved otherwise.
This book also went around in circles. Mirreen, end in the same state the story began. Tyrion was enroute and got hijacked 3-4 times.
Must everything be described to the microscopic level?
The idea that nothing will be resolved in the next book and we will get even more shit on our heroes is not the best thing to look forward5 to, hopefully I am wrong and their is more resolution in the next book and the final book is the realm dealing with the mess north of the wall.

Rockroi at westeros.org has an awesome critique/reveiw that sums up my thoughts and is much more eloquent than I could state it.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53896-adwd-spoilers-well-that-was-disappointing/page__st__140__p__2592911#entry2592911

I finished on Saturday night. Went to the book signing in Indianapolis on Saturday, so I spent a lot of time sitting around doing nothing but reading that day. I liked it overall, but then again, I really liked AFFC.


As much as GRRM gets credit for killing his characters, he's never killed a "main" (big 3) character, and I don't think he will at the very least until the last book. Agree, no way is Jon dead. Dany was as annoying as she was in Clash. Other than that though, I loved it. The Theon chapters in particular were fantastic. I'm not usually a Tyrion fan, but I loved all of his chapters. Bran chapters were spooky and amazingly written.


I look at AFFC and ADWD as bridge books. GRRM originally wanted this series as a trilogy, which bumped up to 4 books, which bumped up to 6 with a 5 year gap in between 2 trilogies. He scrapped the 5 year gap idea, so now we have AFFC and ADWD in between the two trilogies (I'm betting on 8 books total). All of the cyvasse pieces are now in place. My hope is that it doesn't take him 6 years to write the next book. He's said that with his tour, his new Dunk and Egg novella, the script for season 2 of the show, filming the show, and his editing projects, that he's taking the rest of the year off of ASoIaF and will begin again next year. I hope the break does him some good.

MrX
07-20-11, 07:28 PM
I read at one of the signings that someone asked him what would happen if the show caught up to him and he said that wouldn't happen. I think not allowing the tv show to catch up puts a lot more pressure on him to get going then if it's just his publisher and fans bitching.

MrX
07-21-11, 05:18 PM
http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g/

New interview with GRRM talking about the events in the book, needless to say if you haven't finished the book you shouldn't read it as there is are major spoilers.

He doesn't really say anything new, but his comments point to what has been speculated is true in regards to Jon not really being dead and Ramsay's letter not being the truth

Nuff
07-21-11, 08:49 PM
I am in the minority but I hated this book. Honestly after 4 years for Feast and 5 years for Dance...that's 9 years for 2 half books that together are too long and filled with too much fluff. I wish he had stuck with his original 5 year gap in the books plan. I understand why he did what he did without it...but IMO it ruined Feast and Dance.

bdshort
07-27-11, 12:06 PM
I'm wording my way through Feast now, and am enjoying it so far. I bought it when it first came out, and tried to read it after not having read the other 3 for 4+ years, and felt fairly lost so I never got very far in it.

Looking forward to reading Dance, and back to the characters I like, though seeing some of the reviews at Amazon is kind of disappointing.

It's hard not to click on the spoilers!!

Tommy Ceez
07-27-11, 12:10 PM
Wait, do we know Brienne of Tarth is alive or is that just a offshoot of the fucked up time line between the two books?

MrX
07-27-11, 12:36 PM
Wait, do we know Brienne of Tarth is alive or is that just a offshoot of the fucked up time line between the two books?

Yes, she's alive. The issues with the timeline only come into play with characters that weren't in Feast, like when Sam shows up in the early Jon chapters, and Jamie and Brienne were both POV characters in Feast.

starman9000
07-27-11, 05:38 PM
"He was not wrong."

Usually I love Martin's writing, except maybe the Danerys chapers. But those words, "He was not wrong," have appeared over and over through out the book in various forms. It's like Martin in particularly fond of that statement. Seems kind of sloppy for a writer of Martin's caliber. Kind of like starting every sentence in the same paragraph with the same word. Eventually, people are bound to notice.

Otherwise, love the book.

"serjeant" That one drove me crazy.

For me it was "leal" everybody was so fucking leal it started to piss me off.
Oh, I know what the word means, but apparently GRRM just discovered it as well. It didn't show up once in the previous 4 novels, but I saw it in what seemed like every other page on ADWD.

Yeah, I felt the same way. Gaol and Gaoler as well. Yes, there is nothing wrong with those words, but he really fell in love with them.

starman9000
07-27-11, 05:52 PM
Just finished it up today. I mostly liked it, but when I got to the last 100 pages or so, I started to feel let down. This is probably due to it being a "bridge book" like Kirstens said (which, after the delay, is a bit of a let down).


RE: Jon:

I agree that I'm a little annoyed by the non-death, but the more I think of it, the more I don't like his segments in this book. I think he would have been shived as soon as he started his talk of bringing wildlings across the wall.

Tommy Ceez
07-27-11, 07:06 PM
Just finished it up today. I mostly liked it, but when I got to the last 100 pages or so, I started to feel let down. This is probably due to it being a "bridge book" like Kirstens said (which, after the delay, is a bit of a let down).


RE: Jon:

I agree that I'm a little annoyed by the non-death, but the more I think of it, the more I don't like his segments in this book. I think he would have been shived as soon as he started his talk of bringing wildlings across the wall.

Stannis was ok with it so his absence at the time was the key

Tommy Ceez
07-27-11, 07:11 PM
The Reek chapters could have been written by Steven king

MrX
08-08-11, 12:05 PM
GRRM announced today that he's spending 6 weeks next summer teaching at some writer's workshop in Seattle so go ahead and add a year to your prediction of when book 6 will be released:sad:

starman9000
08-08-11, 12:06 PM
:(

Though maybe he'll be more productive there than on the celeb circuit.

MrX
08-08-11, 01:54 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start working on it until next fall.

He mentioned after he finished ADwD that he had several anthologies, the next Dunk and Egg novella, and The World of Ice and Fire source book (itself several years overdue) to work on. If the show gets a 3rd season he would have to write his script in the first part of the year as well.

bdshort
08-12-11, 08:41 PM
Maybe it keeps him from getting burnout? I'm hoping we'll see the next (last?) couple a few years apart vs. the 5 or 6 we've been getting!

Anyway, I'm about halfway through - 44% according to my Kindle, and so far I am liking it quite a bit. I'm having a hard time keeping track of the characters with the strange names in the Daenerys chapters though, and I wish she would break out here dragons! The Bran stuff is pretty interesting to, so I'm disappointed to see so few listed in the table of contents.

Oh, and for repetitive phrases, "Words are wind" is the one I've been noticing a lot! I think Serjeant maybe noticeable since it started showing up in Feast, but not once in the first 3 books!

MrX
08-18-11, 11:50 PM
GRRM is at Worldcon in Reno and told people he hopes to have the next book out in 3 years.

He also read an Arianne Martell chapter from it

EDIT: ugh, reading the summary of the Arianne chapter and then his comments after really make it sound like this one is going to balloon again into another 1,000 page monster with plenty of fat that could have been trimmed.

Amator
08-19-11, 05:03 PM
Just finished it!

Other words/phrases GRRM uses waay too often:
jape
mummer's farce
c**t

Also I guess shat is now an official word now. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shat) I always thought it was a jape.

actionjackson29
08-22-11, 09:26 PM
GRRM is at Worldcon in Reno and told people he hopes to have the next book out in 3 years.

He also read an Arianne Martell chapter from it

EDIT: ugh, reading the summary of the Arianne chapter and then his comments after really make it sound like this one is going to balloon again into another 1,000 page monster with plenty of fat that could have been trimmed.

Didn't he say the tv show wouldn't catch up with him? I believe at some point they're just gonna do there own thing.

Loc Nar
08-25-11, 02:57 PM
Almost finished with ADWD, and a curious realization dawned upon me. George R.R. Martin hates hands! The lowercase variety, I mean. Over the course of the series, I can think of seven significant characters that have had bad things happen to one or more hands:

Catelyn - slashed hands
Jon Snow - burned hand
Davos - partially amputated fingers
Jaime - hand cut off
Reek - 'nuff said
Jon Connington - greyscale on hand
Victarion - cut hand - festering wound

Weird trend that is almost becoming comical. I'm probably also leaving some folks out who suffered some other form of hand trauma. Know any names to add to the list? Maybe George has been writing all these books out by hand and this is his subconscious revenge.

MrX
08-25-11, 03:52 PM
Qhorin Halfhand

Loc Nar
08-25-11, 04:11 PM
Qhorin Halfhand

::smacks forehead:: How could I forget him?! You know, the uppercase Hands generally don't fare too well either. It's a conspiracy I tell you.

Hiro11
09-27-11, 09:40 AM
Finished it a few weeks ago. This was much better than AFFC but some of the plot lines moved at an almost glacial pace.

Strong points: Tyrion and Arya's story arcs zipped right along. The sequence involving Arya and her first "assignment" was probably my favorite in the book. Tyrion went trough some pretty surprising and thrilling adventures. Bran's adventure started out very strongly, but then seemed to peter out a bit. Also, the Boltons have been proven to be more threatening villains than the Lannisters ever were. The Lannisters were scheming and backstabbing, but the Boltons are simply complete psychopaths. I also liked, to a somewhat lesser degree, the Onion Knight material.

Weak points: not much happened with Jon Snow, Asha or especially Danaerys. This despite hundreds of pages being spent on them. Danaerys in particular was driving me absolutely crazy there for a while. I found some of her arc unreadable: we got it, GRRM, she's not being "true to herself". Cersei: Jeez, how much time can we spent building up to and the executing "the walk". Slooooow. One other issue, too many characters. Admittedly, this story started out complicated and we should know what to expect, but at this point it has become a figurative (and literal) blizzard of characters, back stories, places, plot points etc. I'm a pretty dedicated fan, but this is getting a bit ridiculous.

Still, it was a good read and I couldn't put it down. I do think that GRRM needs an editor and needs to push the story forward a bit faster. This book was better in that regard than the fuzzy, undisciplined AFFC, but it's still a problem. GRRM should have only committed to seven books if the story truly needed it, and at this point I'm not sure it does.

Groucho
10-13-11, 05:35 PM
Finally finished this.

Was disappointed that:

Arya's blindness was resolved so quickly.

What was the big "spoiler leak" everybody was talking about at the beginning of this thread?

mgbfan
10-14-11, 11:37 AM
Finished it as well. Wrote a nice fat review and the browser crashed. So ... long story short ... thought it was good. Maybe a notch below #1 and #3. Glad to be able to open these threads again without fear of being spoilerized.

MrX
10-27-11, 02:43 PM
If you haven't been reading the essays over at Tower of the Hand breaking down Dance, I recommend you do.

This one on Dany is an interesting read

http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2011/10/27-peace-in-east/index.html

Mordred
12-08-11, 06:33 PM
Weird trend that is almost becoming comical. I'm probably also leaving some folks out who suffered some other form of hand trauma. Know any names to add to the list? Maybe George has been writing all these books out by hand and this is his subconscious revenge.The Greatjon lost two fingers to Rob's wolf too.

Mordred
12-08-11, 06:41 PM
Finished this one yesterday. I brilliantly started a series re-read back the last week of June I think. Took a lot longer than I was expecting to get through it all. I enjoyed Dance but things in Mereen just really dragged on and on with not much happening. I also found it comical how many characters that were dead no longer are. It really started to grate on me a little bit... and it's obviously not done.

I really like almost all the different threads that are going, and I'm really interested in almost all of them (Dany was wearing thin on me) but there are too many to give much focus to them. There were something like 8 different cliff-hangers going on at the end. Hopefully they characters start coming back together and paring some of this down.

bdshort
03-27-12, 11:49 PM
Even though I started reading this back when it came out, I just finished it today. I'm not a slow reader, but I got sidetracked by other things in August, and was also just burnt out from a marathon read of the first four books, so I stopped. Anyway, overall I was pretty happy with the book, though I think Martin could have easily done some editing and released this and Feast as one book. Still, almost every character had some major developments, and to me it feels like a lot of shit is ready to go down in the next book. I think that the people complaining that nothing happened plot wise in this book should be happy with the next one. I just hope we don't have another 5+ year wait.

About Jon
I don't think we've seen the last of him, and I don't think he's dead, but I think he'll be a transformed character, somewhat like Catelyn. Or he will be "dead" but will have projected himself into Ghost.

Josh-da-man
03-28-12, 05:39 AM
About Jon
I don't think we've seen the last of him, and I don't think he's dead, but I think he'll be a transformed character, somewhat like Catelyn. Or he will be "dead" but will have projected himself into Ghost.

Re: Jon
I have heard speculation that if he dies and comes back to life that it would nullify his oath to the Night's Watch.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.

And they also say "His watch has ended" when a black brother dies.

milo bloom
03-31-12, 10:41 AM
Trying not to read any spoilers here, but does anyone know when the paperback is coming out? I want to start Feast a little before that so I can jump right into Dance.

tks

starman9000
03-31-12, 10:48 AM
July 10th, but there is already a version of the paperback out split into 2 parts.

bdshort
04-01-12, 01:31 AM
I'm hoping The Winds of Winter has less use of such lines as "he was not wrong" and Dany saying "I am only a young girl and know little of such things..."

milo bloom
04-03-12, 09:06 PM
July 10th, but there is already a version of the paperback out split into 2 parts.

Thanks, I've got a little time then (reading The Phantom Tollbooth next, somehow missed it as a kid, then a re-read of The Handmaid's Tale).

johnnysd
04-07-12, 01:17 AM
I have to say that ADWD hammered the point home to me that

MrX
04-07-12, 12:49 PM
Someone sent me this amazon review:lol:

Twentyfour Characters in Search of a Story, April 5, 2012
By
Macaroni
This review is from: A Dance with Dragons (A Song of Ice and Fire, Book 5) (Hardcover)
SPOILERS AHEAD

I'm Varamyr Sixskins. I'm here for the prologue to set us all up for the impending horrors of the North and all the excitement to come...

I'm Tyrion Lannister, the most popular character in all of Westeros! I spend this book meandering down a really slow river, ruminating bitterly about my life, misplacing my former charm, eroding all the goodwill I built up in the other books, and wondering where the whores go. Though perhaps I should have been wondering where the plot went. I also observe turtles and women, play board games, mouth off to all and sundry, and coincidentally run into various characters like some wandering monster in a D&D campaign. Maybe I'll make it to Daenarys in the next book, but at least I ditched that pig.

I'm Asha Greyjoy. I don't have much to do, so I'll be the POV character keeping track of Stannis and his forces. At the beginning of Dance with Dragons, he's working his way towards Winterfell to take it back from the Boltons. At the end of Dance with Dragons, he's...working his way towards Winterfell to take it back from the Boltons. Hope that helps.

I'm Ser Davon Seaworth, the Onion Knight. I'm still running errands for Stannis and getting captured frequently. It's a living.

I'm Bran Stark. I am a tree.

I'm Daenarys Targaryen. I'm only a young girl, and I know little in the ways of war, governance, what have you. I used to think I said these things to misdirect people, but as of DoD it seems to be true. I spend my time taking baths, fretting, being wishy-washy, and mooning over this hot mercenary dude. In the end I learn that "you have to go back to go forward." I would have thought that going backwards would be the last thing that this book needs, but I am only a young girl and know little of the ways of story advancement.

I'm Aegon Targaryen. I appear for the first time in book five as the long thought dead son of Prince Rhaegar and the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. I know, right? What a surprise! It's like I was just pulled from thin air! I spend much of the book traveling to Daenarys, but then I change my mind and go and invade Westeros without her. Sort of. No one important has noticed yet. See you in the next book!

I'm Griff, aka Jon Connington. I'm here to get Aegon Targaryen on the Iron Throne. I tried to tell that kid not to wait until the fifth book to show up if he wants to be king. Now nobody's invested in us. We're like, peripheral characters or something. Nobody cares. I (*sniff*) just want someone to care, you know?

I'm Theon Greyjoy. Turns out I'm not dead, though I rather wish I were. It's been rough. On the bright side, my chapters were some of the only highlights of this bloated beast of a book. I even got to be almost a hero at the end! Can't wait for the next book. Redemption arc ahoy! People like me now!

Tyrion: Settle down sailor. You're not really a major character, and people still don't like you.

I'm Jaime Lannister. I snuck in to steal a chapter just like I would steal a kiss from my sweet sister. Oh look, there's Brienne! She's not dead after all. Whatever could have happened? Oops, we gotta go now, so I'll guess we'll never know. Blink and you'll miss us!

I'm Ser Robert *cough*Gregor*cough* Strong *cough*not dead*cough*. Gregor SMASH!

I'm the Hound. You know, I strongly suspect that I might not be dead either.

Tyrion: Quiet, you. No one even mentions you in this book.

I'm Wyman Manderly. I'm a minor character, but I bring a bit of awesome anyway. I was last seen bleeding from a neck wound. I wonder if I'll die. Your guess is as good as the author's.

I'm John Snow. I command the wall and defend Westeros from the horrors of the North. I count sides of beef and sausages, receive messages, meet with my staff, greet newcomers, and find bedrooms for all the wildings. Seriously, am I a commander or a butler? It's the end of the book already, we need some action! I'll march on Winterfell and retake it from the cursed Boltons! Away we go! Oh, dang it. Stabbed from all sides. There goes that plan. It sure does seem like I'll die now...

I'm Quentyn Martell. I'm kind of a side plot that has no impact at all on the main story. Then I die. But the good news is that I really am dead for sure!

I'm Melisandre. I get a chapter where I play with fire and see things and act all cryptic with people. Well, I have to amuse myself somehow. It's booorrring at the wall.

I'm Victarion Grayjoy.
Sailing, sailing, over the bounding main!
This book will end
Before I meet
Daenarys Targaryen!

I'm Aero Hota. Don't worry, I don't really remember who I am either. Not much to see here, anyway.

I'm Cersei Lannister. I get two chapters of humiliation. I can has some of Theon's reader sympathy now? No? Well then. I won't forget this. A Lannister always pays his debts...maybe in the next book.

I'm Ayra Stark. I'm in two chapters, too, and I kill someone, like I always do. But this time it's different; this time someone told me to. That's progress. Maybe someday I'll kill someone who has something to do with the main story.

I'm Barriston Selmy. I putter around Meereen, trying in some small way to advance the plot. Alas, to little avail. I'm too old for this.

I'm Kevan Lannister. I waited a thousand pages for a POV and all I got was this lousy epilogue and a quarrel in the chest. Oh well. At least I'm well and truly done with this mess.

Varys: Maybe.

We're the Others. We are the horror of the North and theoretically the real Big Bad Threat in this series. It's five books in, and we still haven't really gotten to do anything yet. To be honest, we're too bored to bother any more. We're going to invade Canada instead and subdue them to our icy will. Apologies everyone!

Alvis
04-11-12, 05:16 PM
I'm hoping The Winds of Winter has less use of such lines as "he was not wrong" and Dany saying "I am only a young girl and know little of such things..."

You know nothing, Jon Snow. :)

Cusm
04-13-12, 01:22 PM
After seeing the first 2 episodes of the 2nd season, I think I pinpointed my problem with ADWD. In all the other books there is a large amount of travel and passage of time between chapters. Often this is hard to tell just casually reading, and the responses in the TV series threads demonstrate this for the show as well. I think with ADWD instead of skipping all the traveling, GRRM wrote about it in full detail, and he did this because he did not know where he was going any more than the characters and he had to get the book out. I really hope he returns to form of the previous books.

Deadpool
04-17-12, 05:09 PM
So, like many the show has me hooked in but I'm not much of a reader :D

Spoiler wanted:

Has it been told who was the mother of John Snow? Just want to know what other family he is part of. Wife guesses Targaryen. I'm guessing a family that hasn't been shown yet.

MrX
04-17-12, 07:50 PM
So, like many the show has me hooked in but I'm not much of a reader :D

Spoiler wanted:

Has it been told who was the mother of John Snow? Just want to know what other family he is part of. Wife guesses Targaryen. I'm guessing a family that hasn't been shown yet.

No, but the fan theory is that Jon wasn't Ned's bastard, but instead he is the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.