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Is it just me or do LED TV's have a bad picture? [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum
 
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View Full Version : Is it just me or do LED TV's have a bad picture?


lamphorn
06-23-11, 05:27 PM
I'm asking this because my friend just bought a beautiful 60-inch Samsung LED... and I absolutely hate the picture quality. Don't get me wrong, it is crystal clear. So crystal clear, in fact, that it makes movies look more like video shot for television. I brought over my most grainy film-tastic blu-rays to check out, and the thing makes "The Shining" look like home video, "Barry Lyndon" looks like a BBC miniseries, and even "Black Swan" with all it's grain just looks absurdly like a television show.

I wonder if it's the motion, because the motion just doesn't look "film-like" like it does on my 42-inch plasma or my little 27-inch Samsung LCD. There's an odd camcorder-like jerkiness to pans, and while my friend doesn't see it, I swear the dialogue and the actor's mouths is slightly out of synch. Is this a deficiency in the technology, or some sort of "advanced settings" issue?

Texan26
06-23-11, 06:12 PM
I have an LED TV (sharp aquos quattron) and I had to mess around with the settings to get rid of what they call the soap opera effect. For starters, you have to turn off Motion Enhancement. I went to http://www.tweaktv.com/tweak-my-tv/ and used their recommended settings.

I also had the out of sync audio when I have the blu-ray player going through my receiver via HDMI. If I connect it straight to the TV, it's fine but of course I need it through the receiver. The receiver has an audio delay setting that you can adjust. It took me a while to find the right setting but it is perfect now.

kefrank
06-23-11, 06:22 PM
That "video-like" look that you're seeing has nothing to do with LED or LCD technology directly. It is a "motion enhancement" feature that many/most new TVs offer and is usually defeatable in the settings. Essentially, it interpolates frames in between the source frames to provide a smoother, more "life-like" picture than film does inherently at 24fps. While that may be fine for broadcast sports or other specific uses, it makes movies look AWFUL in my opinion and I think it's one of the worst "enhancements" to come to television technology in a long time. Plus it has caused massive confusion among people wondering if that's what Blu-ray looks like, or LED looks like, or all HD looks like, etc.

lamphorn
06-23-11, 07:22 PM
Thanks guys, I'll pass that along to my friend.

Jeremy517
06-26-11, 04:54 PM
I agree with turn off motion enhancement.

Regarding audio being out of sync... are you going through a receiver before your TV (for example Blu-Ray -> Receiver -> Television)? The signal processing that modern TVs do (at least LEDs and LCDs; I don't notice any problem on my Plasma) takes time, while there is no delay on the audio coming out of your receiver. The solution is to go Blu-Ray -> TV -> Receiver. Your TV should have an optical out.

Numanoid
06-26-11, 05:46 PM
Yeah, "motion enhancement", or whatever marketing term a specific manufacturer uses (my Epson projector calls it "Frame Interpolation"), is evil. Joe Six-Pack thinks he's improving the picture, but for most shows and movies it entirely changes the presentation, as you've noticed. Completely undoes all the hard work that the director and cinematographer have done.

bsmith
06-26-11, 09:40 PM
I agree with turn off motion enhancement.

Regarding audio being out of sync... are you going through a receiver before your TV (for example Blu-Ray -> Receiver -> Television)? The signal processing that modern TVs do (at least LEDs and LCDs; I don't notice any problem on my Plasma) takes time, while there is no delay on the audio coming out of your receiver. The solution is to go Blu-Ray -> TV -> Receiver. Your TV should have an optical out.

But won't you lose out on the HD audio going through the optical out?

If you have the equipment to take advantage of the HD audio then I don't think you have much choice but to go Blu-ray -> Receiver -> TV and as mentioned by someone else and use the audio delay feature.

Jay G.
07-03-11, 01:03 AM
Nitpick: So-called "LED" TVs are just LCD TVs with an LED sidelight or backlight, instead of the florescent sidelight of other LCD TVs. Real LED screens (OLED or AMOLED) are too expensive to make large-sized TV screens out of for now; you mostly only see them in phones at the moment.

cseyer
07-05-11, 08:15 AM
It is very confusing even if you follow Home Theater technology. There is also LCD with local dimming led which is a great technology.

On related note its interesting that the marketing and tv's are sold touting the higher refresh rates as better. In my opinion I dont want any of the motion enhancement techonologies, they look terrible. I'd rather stick with a native refresh rate, anything artificially interpolated looks exactly that artificial. There is just a lot of bad info out there and most consumers believe that the 240 Hz tv is the best, in reality the panel MIGHT be the best if you turn OFF all the motion enhancements or it might not be. I found it very hard to compare tv's most of the specs dont matter and you really cant judge the quality of the picture in the store as the TV's are never properly adjusted and the viewing enviroment is terrible.

Bacon
07-05-11, 08:28 AM
My mother bought a Vizio LED LCD TV and I was over at her house for dinner last night and we watched True Grit (2010), the picture on her TV was amazing

kefrank
07-05-11, 05:44 PM
On related note its interesting that the marketing and tv's are sold touting the higher refresh rates as better. In my opinion I dont want any of the motion enhancement techonologies, they look terrible. I'd rather stick with a native refresh rate, anything artificially interpolated looks exactly that artificial.
This is a great example of the confusion. A higher refresh rate is not equivalent to artificial interpolation. You can get the benefits of a higher refresh rate (reduction in flicker, mostly) with no artificial interpolation or other artifact-inducing processing when the TV simply does 5:5 (in the case of 120Hz) or 10:10 (in the case of 240Hz) pulldown. For example, with a 24fps source (Blu-ray), a 240Hz TV can display the same frame for 10 passes in a row - this reduces flicker, eliminates judder from doing 3:2 pulldown that is necessary with a 60Hz display, and has no other impact on the original image.

To summarize, a higher refresh rate is generally good. Motion interpolation is generally bad (though ultimately a matter of preference). The two are not the same thing.

Spiky
07-05-11, 10:48 PM
Just to add to kefrank's comment...

Historically, LCD tech was slow, so the slow "turning" of the cells would impact the picture, despite claiming to be 60Hz. The cells couldn't keep up. Some would actually allow visible trails onscreen, while others would just not look as nice as other tech. The solution was faster LCD tech. While they didn't actually need to go to double/quadruple the TV rate, it does kinda make sense.

cseyer
07-06-11, 08:17 AM
To summarize, a higher refresh rate is generally good. Motion interpolation is generally bad (though ultimately a matter of preference). The two are not the same thing.

Agree, the problem to me is that generally I cant tell what the native refresh rate of a panel is vs. the motion interpolation feature. If you know a way to figure that out I would be very interested.

Take for example the Sony XBR-HX929 the sony website says panel freq = 240Hz, is that native or the motion flow technology?

kefrank
07-06-11, 11:51 AM
Take for example the Sony XBR-HX929 the sony website says panel freq = 240Hz, is that native or the motion flow technology?
I assume that would be native. I don't know of any way for motion flow to artificially increase the refresh rate of the display panel itself. The only thing motion flow does is use the additional available passes at the native refresh rate to display interpolated frames of a source that has a lower fps instead of simply repeating the frames of the source as necessary. To put it another way, motion flow cannot give you a perceived fps that is greater than the native refresh rate of the display.

cseyer
07-06-11, 05:30 PM
I assume that would be native. I don't know of any way for motion flow to artificially increase the refresh rate of the display panel itself. The only thing motion flow does is use the additional available passes at the native refresh rate to display interpolated frames of a source that has a lower fps instead of simply repeating the frames of the source as necessary. To put it another way, motion flow cannot give you a perceived fps that is greater than the native refresh rate of the display.

That also makes sense, I'm still not sure that I can see the difference (certainly haven't been able to in the stores). I CAN see the difference in quality LCD panels vs lower quality with slow response times, the smearing in sports is obvious.

Spiky
07-06-11, 10:50 PM
So, if you're shopping, check out the Panasonic plasmas.

BambooLounge
07-07-11, 07:01 AM
I'm asking this because my friend just bought a beautiful 60-inch Samsung LED... and I absolutely hate the picture quality. Don't get me wrong, it is crystal clear. So crystal clear, in fact, that it makes movies look more like video shot for television. I brought over my most grainy film-tastic blu-rays to check out, and the thing makes "The Shining" look like home video, "Barry Lyndon" looks like a BBC miniseries, and even "Black Swan" with all it's grain just looks absurdly like a television show.

I wonder if it's the motion, because the motion just doesn't look "film-like" like it does on my 42-inch plasma or my little 27-inch Samsung LCD. There's an odd camcorder-like jerkiness to pans, and while my friend doesn't see it, I swear the dialogue and the actor's mouths is slightly out of synch. Is this a deficiency in the technology, or some sort of "advanced settings" issue?

Yes!

I have a Samsung LCD in my room and my brother just got a new Samsung LED in his room. I walked in one day and he was watching Star Wars on TV in HD and I couldn't get over how it looked like a television show from the 80s. It was insane...naturally, he just thought I was nuts.

Navinabob
07-08-11, 05:02 PM
Here is the real awful part. You get used to it. So much in fact that when you go back and see a TV the other way you can't get over how crappy the picture looks.

Mabuse
07-20-11, 07:08 PM
There are legions of poeple out there watching it wrong. I had to fix my father in laws TV for him. The whole family said it looked like shit, he couldn't see it.

Numanoid
07-20-11, 07:49 PM
So, if you're shopping, check out the Panasonic plasmas.Only for 2010 models. Samsung seems to have taken the crown back for the 2011 models. Either way, you'll be happy.

Pizza
07-21-11, 12:50 AM
Same deal here. I was at a friends house who were showing off their new TV. They were showing Burton's Alice in Wonderland and it looked like it was shot on HD video. I asked to borrow the remote and turned off the motion enhancements. I asked them if they liked the picture better or not. They did and asked what I did. It's hard to make people understand that video enhancements don't always improve the picture.

QuantumRift
11-26-11, 11:50 PM
I'm asking this because my friend just bought a beautiful 60-inch Samsung LED... and I absolutely hate the picture quality. Don't get me wrong, it is crystal clear. So crystal clear, in fact, that it makes movies look more like video shot for television. I brought over my most grainy film-tastic blu-rays to check out, and the thing makes "The Shining" look like home video, "Barry Lyndon" looks like a BBC miniseries, and even "Black Swan" with all it's grain just looks absurdly like a television show.

I wonder if it's the motion, because the motion just doesn't look "film-like" like it does on my 42-inch plasma or my little 27-inch Samsung LCD. There's an odd camcorder-like jerkiness to pans, and while my friend doesn't see it, I swear the dialogue and the actor's mouths is slightly out of synch. Is this a deficiency in the technology, or some sort of "advanced settings" issue?

Hey I'm with you on this. We went to Best Buy two nights ago and scored a 55" Samsung LED, with 120Hz refresh rate, yati yati yati. I set it up yesterday morning and got it going, and the "honeymoon" is not over. We have a 42" and 46" (2007 model) Samsung LCD TVs and I guess we are used to them.

The LED TV is just weird.

Last night we watched "The Santa Clause" and it looked like it was shot on home video. So much that all the special effects were ruined! It was the same with an old episode of "I Dream of Jeannie" and a 60's movie "The Trouble with Angels". The motion was blurry and jerky, it looked like home video and it was just, well, unsettling. I had the OSU-Michigan football game on this afternoon and I got it adjusted so that it looked great, but tonite, we have on a Lifetime movie and it's just freakin' weird to watch. I have to twiddle with the controls again as I read about the motion enhancement, etc, but is this something you have to do for each and everything you view? Is there one setting that works so everything looks "normal"?

Spiky
11-27-11, 10:45 AM
Maybe you should read the rest of the posts in the thread. All that has been explained. Seems wasteful to retype it.

QuantumRift
11-27-11, 09:06 PM
I did read the entire thread. The question is: Can you 'adjust' this once and it looks good for all broadcast and DVD or so you have to adjust it one way for one thing and another way for something else? I'm all for fine-tuning but not 'constantly-tuning'. I believe I have the TV set properly - that is, films appear to be films and video as video, so hopefully that's the end of it....

Jay G.
11-27-11, 09:15 PM
If you turn all the motion enhancements off, film should look like film, and video should look like video, without extra adjustments.

Numanoid
11-28-11, 03:24 AM
Yep, it's a toggle. Turn it off and leave it off.

Sdallnct
11-28-11, 09:37 AM
In addition to what was mentioned, you really need to set it up properly. While I was looking at plasmas my wife surprised me with an LCD (sort of. she basically talked me into an LCD). When I first took out of the box and turned on, I literally thought something was wrong with it. But after tweeking, finding recommendations over at AVS, etc it became a pretty good pic. I'd still rather have a plasma, but it is a "good" pic after calibration.

Mabuse
11-28-11, 02:55 PM
Here we see the downside of Black Friday discounts.

Spiky
11-28-11, 10:13 PM
Here we see the downside of Black Friday discounts.
Wow! LOL!

QuantumRift
11-28-11, 10:19 PM
If you turn all the motion enhancements off, film should look like film, and video should look like video, without extra adjustments.

Thank you!

QR

CreamyGoodness
12-05-11, 05:52 PM
I just bought a Samsung 8000 series LED TV.

I've read in some other places, but haven't seen anyone mention it here, that the only way to turn off the noise reduction feature completely is to use 'game mode'. It seems that in any other mode than game mode, the noise reduction is still running even if you've set it to 'off'.

I was watching a BD movie the other night and even with all of the processing turned off, i could see grain moving around the picture. People's faces had the appearance of sand being swept by wind. I changed the setting to 'game mode' and the picture was much more lifelike.

The only thing is, in game mode you can only have the picture in 'standard mode'. Not that it really matters - Their 'movie mode' was too washed out and dim anyway.

Obi-Wan Jabroni
12-05-11, 08:26 PM
On Samsung, the feature is called "Auto Motion Plus".

Find it, and set it to "Off"

On my set, it's under "Picture" menu, and then under "Picture Options"

Setting it to game mode will also automatically turn off Auto Motion Plus, but you should have a better quality picture when game mode and Auto Motion Plus are both off. At least I seem to on my set.