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View Full Version : Do I need to upgrade my HT Rec'r?


K&AJones
06-16-11, 08:35 AM
Hey

I've been toying with this idea on & off but frankly using the line..."if it ain't broke, don't worry"...I've put it aside. But I'm seeing some decent deals and price ranges so I'm back again looking.


As I said it ain't broke but the old faithful Denon AVR-1801 keeps going. Sound wise it does what Denons do...just good sound. However it lacks some of the current input options like no HDMI and more importantly certain sound fields like Dobly True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio.


The Denon is more "old school" when D.D 5.1 and DTS were making headway with the new DVD releases. This is even before 7.1 came around but after THX. I'm a DTS person because it produces a more "lively" sound compared to D.D. But i've never heard Dobly True HD or DTS-HD Master Audio so I cannot compare or deteramin if worthwhile.


As for as the input/output switing I'm unsure on it as "old school" way of thinking was a direct connection was always better than multiple routing. With some of the current HT Rec'rs they have a video processing chip that is suppose to help enhance the video quality. Again haven't seen one to compare.


I'd like to stay with Denon but Onkyos have always impressed me. They seem to have a few extras under the hood in the same price range as the Denons. Two models I'm just considering are...


HT-RC360
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004UR487U/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1FVMSQBGE1Y4G5GJE31W&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

TX-NR509
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004O0TRCO/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1FVMSQBGE1Y4G5GJE31W&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

SUPERMANROB
06-16-11, 10:58 AM
Well I think it really depends on what you have in your system and what you want your AVR to do. If you need HDMI switching then you might want to change. Will you need it to upconvert or just bypass?
As far as the audio,you can have your player do the work or if your 1801 has in's and your player has out's, you could go that way.
I like Onkyo but they do tend to run very hot,so you have to be mindful of that.

andicus
06-16-11, 11:16 AM
If you really like your current receiver, just do as Supermanrob suggests and get a BR player with analog audio outs. This is what I did. You end up spending a little bit more on the player, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to a new receiver.

I also just run my video output directly to my TV. I can't imagine that running it through a receiver would give you a better picture.

Sdallnct
06-17-11, 03:53 AM
Hey

I've been toying with this idea on & off but frankly using the line..."if it ain't broke, don't worry"...I've put it aside. But I'm seeing some decent deals and price ranges so I'm back again looking.


As I said it ain't broke but the old faithful Denon AVR-1801 keeps going. Sound wise it does what Denons do...just good sound. However it lacks some of the current input options like no HDMI and more importantly certain sound fields like Dobly True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio.


The Denon is more "old school" when D.D 5.1 and DTS were making headway with the new DVD releases. This is even before 7.1 came around but after THX. I'm a DTS person because it produces a more "lively" sound compared to D.D. But i've never heard Dobly True HD or DTS-HD Master Audio so I cannot compare or deteramin if worthwhile.


As for as the input/output switing I'm unsure on it as "old school" way of thinking was a direct connection was always better than multiple routing. With some of the current HT Rec'rs they have a video processing chip that is suppose to help enhance the video quality. Again haven't seen one to compare.


I'd like to stay with Denon but Onkyos have always impressed me. They seem to have a few extras under the hood in the same price range as the Denons. Two models I'm just considering are...


HT-RC360
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004UR487U/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1FVMSQBGE1Y4G5GJE31W&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

TX-NR509
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004O0TRCO/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1FVMSQBGE1Y4G5GJE31W&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

It really depends on your system.

I had similar to you, and old school great sounding H/K. No HDMI and no way to play lossless (I have a PS3 and HD DVD player). I a fluke a picked up a refurbished Onkyo for like $155 or something shipped. I recently switched it in.

1st, overall I prefer the sound of the H/K. The Onkyo isn't bad, but the H/K is warmer and more depth.

2nd, I'm not sold on lossless in my system. I likely don't have the speakers for it. Sure I can hear the difference, but not sure if it is better or just different. Lossy doesn't suck...lol

3rd, the HDMI switching is nice.

Pizza
06-17-11, 06:46 AM
Just have your bluray do the processing. You'll be fine. I wouldn't worry about video processing through a receiver. HDMI cords are convenient but not necessary...yet. I'm sure the time is coming when it may be the only choice, but until then enjoy your receiver, at least until it tanks.

Spiky
06-17-11, 07:56 AM
If you really like your current receiver, just do as Supermanrob suggests and get a BR player with analog audio outs. This is what I did. You end up spending a little bit more on the player, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to a new receiver.

I also just run my video output directly to my TV. I can't imagine that running it through a receiver would give you a better picture.
Does the 1801 have multichannel analog input?

K&AJones
06-17-11, 12:55 PM
Well with the 1801 it dioes have....

six channel analog outputs for a outboard decorder....surround, center, front and sub

my current BR player...a Sony BDP-S360 doesn't have the analog inputs. It only has your typical HDMI, coax and optical digital output, component video out and analog.

Right now I connect straight from the Sony BR player via HDMI to the Sony 52" Z5100 and use the optical connection for audio to the Denon

The Denon only has Dobly Pro Logic, D.D 5.1 and DTS/DTS Digital 5.1. Sound is provided by the Boston 9000 5.1 setup.

The HDMI video switching is one part of asking but I'm more interested in the sound quality of True HD Audio and DTS-HD Master. Is it something I'm relly missing. I also like the fact newer units offer a usb port and with few special sound fields.

Kenshiro
06-17-11, 01:20 PM
Does the 1801 have multichannel analog input?

Well with the 1801 it dioes have....six channel analog outputs for a outboard decorder

The HDMI video switching is one part of asking but I'm more interested in the sound quality of True HD Audio and DTS-HD Master. Is it something I'm relly missing. I also like the fact newer units offer a usb port and with few special sound fields.Buzz, I was in the same situation a few years ago you're in now.

I was using a Denon 4805 but wanted to take advantage of HDMI switching and the lossless audio on Blu-ray so I got a Pioneer receiver that had analog outputs and use it as a pre-amp, and the 4805 as the amp.

By now I'm sure you could find an AVR to do the same for you on the cheap.

K&AJones
06-17-11, 01:44 PM
Buzz, I was in the same situation a few years ago you're in now.

I was using a Denon 4805 but wanted to take advantage of HDMI switching and the lossless audio on Blu-ray so I got a Pioneer receiver that had analog outputs and use it as a pre-amp, and the 4805 as the amp.

By now I'm sure you could find an AVR to do the same for you on the cheap.


hey Ken...we still need to do Splinter cell by the way. Yea..but the 4805 is a beast compared to the 1801. I do have some pre-amp jacks but only front, center and sub. Or you talking about connecting the six analog to the seperate unit? Never connected a seperate receiver as a "pre-amp"?

Kenshiro
06-17-11, 02:15 PM
Or you talking about connecting the six analog to the seperate unit? Never connected a seperate receiver as a "pre-amp"?Correct, you'd connect the analog out from the "newer" AVR to the 1801 which would be used as an amp.

It all comes down to if you want to keep the 1801 in your HT anymore. You certainly still can.

I'm more interested in the sound quality of True HD Audio and DTS-HD Master. Is it something I'm relly missing.I think it's worth the upgrade.

hey Ken...we still need to do Splinter cell by the way.I'm ready when you are. :)

K&AJones
06-17-11, 05:41 PM
Correct, you'd connect the analog out from the "newer" AVR to the 1801 which would be used as an amp.

It all comes down to if you want to keep the 1801 in your HT anymore. You certainly still can.

I think it's worth the upgrade.

I'm ready when you are. :)


So basically look for "any" rec'r that has....

A...six analog outputs....
B...offers both TrueHD Audio and DTS-Master Audio

and then connect the BR player thru the new AVR? Of course a couple of years ago one could find a few units with six analog audio jacks but todays units...HDMI has taken that place. I'll look around and see what I can find. Thanks for the heads up.

Kenshiro
06-17-11, 06:07 PM
So basically look for "any" rec'r that has....

A...six analog outputs....
B...offers both TrueHD Audio and DTS-Master Audio

and then connect the BR player thru the new AVR? Of course a couple of years ago one could find a few units with six analog audio jacks but todays units...HDMI has taken that place. I'll look around and see what I can find. Thanks for the heads up.There's the rub, you could try used or refurbished models that are from several years ago. Pioneer, Onyko, Yamaha, and Sony all had models in the past that had them.

I think Denon is the only manufacturer that still includes multi-channel analog outputs on their AVR's, but if you went that route whatever new Denon AVR you bought would probably be better than the 1081 anyway.

K&AJones
06-17-11, 08:21 PM
There's the rub, you could try used or refurbished models that are from several years ago. Pioneer, Onyko, Yamaha, and Sony all had models in the past that had them.

I think Denon is the only manufacturer that still includes multi-channel analog outputs on their AVR's, but if you went that route whatever new Denon AVR you bought would probably be better than the 1081 anyway.


Yea...I've been looking around on a few sites with AVR for sale both new and used. I can find some nice Yammys and Denons from a few years back that are loaded but as you've guessed....no True-HD or DTS-HD Master Audio. Some of the lower current models have bare-bones to them but do offer the sound field. I'm looking again at say last years models which have a pretty good discount. I like the Yammys since they've always had good sound though earllier models were often considered a "bit high and bright". Thanks for your help....

mattysemo247
06-20-11, 10:38 PM
I went through this whole process less than 2 years ago and have never looked back. I had an older Sony ES receiver that kicked all sorts of ass, but didn't decode any of the newer formats. So I rounded up a bunch or receivers and ended up getting a great deal on a Pioneer Elite SC-05. But be careful. After I bought a new receiver I really couldn't stand my older speakers. So a grand later, I upgraded to HT speakers :)

So, yeah, upgrade if you really want to. Just make sure you have some solid pricing in mind and you might want to think about speakers as well.

K&AJones
06-21-11, 08:32 PM
I've been back over at the AVS forum ...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/ and reading reviews on a few choices I have in mind. there's plenty out there in the $300-$375 range. My first choice is the Yanaha RX-V667 and possibly a Denon AVR-891. The Sonys don't seem bad and reviews point out positives. Plus having all Sony on "sync" would help since we have Sony TV (52Z5100) and BR player.

As for the speakers our little Boston 9000 Micro for the space is still kicking pretty good.

mrhan
12-17-12, 11:33 AM
I did a search and this thread comes close to what I am looking for. Anyways, what current BD player has 7.1 analog outputs? I have an older Pioneer that has these imputs. I don't want to upgrade the reciever and I don't need HDMI switching. I know the Oppos have them but is there a cheaper option with what's available now. Thanks in advance.

Tom Creo
12-18-12, 09:10 AM
I always assumed that if you connected a BR player to a receiver via analog, it would not be possible to have DD or DTS HD decoding. That is was something that must take place in the digital realm. Is that not true?

Spiky
12-18-12, 10:08 AM
I did a search and this thread comes close to what I am looking for. Anyways, what current BD player has 7.1 analog outputs? I have an older Pioneer that has these imputs. I don't want to upgrade the reciever and I don't need HDMI switching. I know the Oppos have them but is there a cheaper option with what's available now. Thanks in advance.
I think the Panny BDT500 has them. Can't seem to find a pic to verify. Maybe download the manual to check. This is around $300.

I always assumed that if you connected a BR player to a receiver via analog, it would not be possible to have DD or DTS HD decoding. That is was something that must take place in the digital realm. Is that not true?
Then the player is decoding, in digital. Just not your receiver. You would have to do any audio calibration with the player, because your receiver will likely bypass its calibration settings with the multichannel input. Players with these outputs should have the calibration settings available, like distance to speaker and separate volume adjustments for each channel.

mrhan
12-18-12, 04:42 PM
^Thanks, Spiky! I checked Amazon and there's a chart w/it's specs. I also read some reviews and it looks like a winner. Plus, it's in my price range. I did want to get an Oppo but I can't afford it right now. The last Oppo I actually have and is still running strong is the 971. Is there any other player I should also consider with 7.1 analog? If not it looks like this is it.

Tom Creo
12-19-12, 12:35 AM
Thanks for the info Spiky. I had completely forgotten that the player does the decoding in such instances.

Spiky
12-19-12, 09:51 AM
Is there any other player I should also consider with 7.1 analog? If not it looks like this is it.
I was actually surprised to see this one. I thought the "regular" mfgrs had all dropped this feature, not including Oppo and even more expensive brands. I'm pretty sure Panny dropped it for a generation or 2, and they apparently brought it back.

I was quite happy with my Panny BD55, until I finally decided to spend $500 for an Oppo this year. The current model is probably great, too. I also still use the 7.1 analog.

mrhan
12-19-12, 11:42 AM
I was quite happy with my Panny BD55, until I finally decided to spend $500 for an Oppo this year. The current model is probably great, too. I also still use the 7.1 analog.

I'm still using an old Pioneer VSX-D812 and it has the 7.1 imputs; never used them before and like I stated earlier I don't feel like upgrading it right now. I use the opticals for the PS3, Comcast box and Oppo 971. Getting this Panny is the best option right now. Thanks again. :)