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View Full Version : NAACP vs. Black Parents (Thousands of black parents protest NAACP on school choice)


grundle
06-03-11, 11:16 PM
I agree with the black parents.

Which of the two sides do you agree with?


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303745304576361630636338492.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

NAACP vs. Black Parents

Standing in the doorway to protect failed schools.

June 4, 2011

Here's something you don't see everyday. Thousands of American blacks held a rally in Harlem last week to protest . . . the NAACP.

The New York state chapter of the civil rights organization and the United Federation of Teachers, the local teachers union, have filed a lawsuit to stop the city from closing 22 of Gotham's worst schools. The lawsuit also aims to block the city from giving charter schools space to operate in buildings occupied by traditional public schools.

Protesters at the rally, which included parents and charter school operators like Geoffrey Canada of the Harlem Children's Zone, urged the NAACP to withdraw from the suit. But Hazel Dukes, president of the state NAACP chapter, is unpersuaded. Using the kind of language more readily associated with past opponents of black civil rights, Ms. Dukes said that critics of the lawsuit "can march and have rallies all day long. . . . We will not respond."

What schoolhouses is Ms. Dukes standing in the doorway to protect? Well, at the Academy for Collaborative Education, one of the Harlem schools that the city wants to close, only 3% of students were performing at grade level in English last year, and only 9% in math. At Columbus High School in the Bronx, another school slated for closure, the four-year graduation rate in 2009 was 40%, versus a citywide average of 63%, and less than 10% of special education students graduated on time.

The teachers union wants to keep these abysmal schools open to preserve jobs for their members. This is bad enough. But the union and NAACP also want to limit better educational options for low-income families who can't afford private schools and can't afford to move to an affluent neighborhood with decent public schools. The union knows that in a place like New York City, where space is at a premium, blocking charters from operating in public buildings will hamper charter growth.

If the lawsuit succeeds, the awful schools will remain open to damage another generation of children. If you want to know why the NAACP has become irrelevant to the lives of African-Americans, this typical display of moral indifference to the plight of minority children is Exhibit A.

TheBigDave
06-03-11, 11:20 PM
I agree with the black parents.

So you disagree with the NAACP? Racist.

NORML54601
06-03-11, 11:22 PM
I really doubt one is going to get the gist of the article from 3 bolded sentences.

grundle
06-04-11, 12:01 AM
I really doubt one is going to get the gist of the article from 3 bolded sentences.

People can read the entire thing if they want. I just bolded the most important parts.

grundle
06-04-11, 12:02 AM
So you disagree with the NAACP? Racist.

Yes - I feel so ashamed!

Heat
06-04-11, 12:23 AM
I read the whole thing.

Looks like the teacher's union gave a nice contribution to the NAACP. And teachers unions are concerned with union teacher's jobs first, students second (or even lower) which is why the union is against the closing of this school or allowing parents to send their kids to schools where the teachers might not be unionized.

focker
06-04-11, 01:41 AM
Increasing school choice is the best thing we can do for public education. Teachers' unions are the number one opponent of school choice in every market where it is proposed. The unions don't give a shit about students or their education. Many individual teachers care, but not the unions.

Superboy
06-04-11, 02:51 AM
Increasing school choice is the best thing we can do for public education. Teachers' unions are the number one opponent of school choice in every market where it is proposed. The unions don't give a shit about students or their education. Many individual teachers care, but not the unions.

Exactly, which is why public schools are terrible all over the country, even in affluent neighborhoods, because of the teacher's unions. Bad schools aren't populated with a lot of minorities.

DVD Polizei
06-04-11, 04:53 AM
Typical. It isn't the kids who fail...it's the dumbass parents who enable their kids to stay stupid.

Superboy
06-04-11, 06:50 AM
Yes - I feel so ashamed!

The unions aren't the problem.

It's amazing how dense these parents are.

Okay, let's take a sample.

Of the entire US public school system.

They all have unionized teachers.

So why do only some of them have terrible student performance?

It's the one variable that's consistent across the spectrum.

So if its invariable...

...then the actual variable must be corroborate and correlated with some other random variable.

So it's not unions, okay?

BKenn01
06-04-11, 06:51 AM
Exactly, which is why public schools are terrible all over the country, even in affluent neighborhoods, because of the teacher's unions. Bad schools aren't populated with a lot of minorities.

And I for one cant figure out why people tolerate it. This is one area I cant see why people dont say fuck you to the union. In this case the product is far more important than the employee.

Superboy
06-04-11, 06:56 AM
And I for one cant figure out why people tolerate it. This is one area I cant see why people dont say fuck you to the union. In this case the product is far more important than the employee.

Okay, why are you blaming the unions again?

I'll ask again: if it's the one thing that's consistent across the entire educational spectrum...

...why are they somehow responsible for pockets of bad performance? there's clearly a pattern of poor performance, and that pattern isn't centered around unions, because then all schools everywhere would exhibit the same problems.

So, you've probably already guessed by now what the variable really is.

But i'll let you make your own judgement about what that means.

logrus9
06-04-11, 09:04 AM
...why are they somehow responsible for pockets of bad performance? there's clearly a pattern of poor performance, and that pattern isn't centered around unions, because then all schools everywhere would exhibit the same problems.



That is the flaw in the argument. When unions protect poor performers, which is a consistent complaint against all unions, they become a part of the problem.

Using your logic, all schools teach children, who also have parents, therefore children and parents can't be blamed because some children do well.

Unions aren't the only problem, and neither are unions per se, it's certain specific practices that lead to problems.

RoyalTea
06-04-11, 10:50 AM
The unions aren't the problem.

It's amazing how dense these parents are.

Okay, let's take a sample.

Of the entire US public school system.

They all have unionized teachers.

So why do only some of them have terrible student performance?

It's the one variable that's consistent across the spectrum.

So if its invariable...

...then the actual variable must be corroborate and correlated with some other random variable.

So it's not unions, okay?

Where are the schools that have terrible student performance? Aren't they typically in areas where students don't really have a choice in where they go to school? In many middle-class areas, isn't a school district a major variable in deciding where to buy a house? How would unions prevent people from choosing to live in a specific township or school district?

DVD Polizei
06-04-11, 11:22 AM
The unions aren't the problem.

It's amazing how dense these parents are.

Okay, let's take a sample.

Of the entire US public school system.

They all have unionized teachers.

So why do only some of them have terrible student performance?

It's the one variable that's consistent across the spectrum.

So if its invariable...

...then the actual variable must be corroborate and correlated with some other random variable.

So it's not unions, okay?

Actually, it has a lot to do with the Teachers Unions as well. With stupid dumbass parents AND the unions--wanting to keep everything as they are...the kids are doomed for failure.

I suggest watching a documentary Waiting For Superman. This will make the unions much more clear on their financial interests in keeping failing schools alive and well.

While not all teachers are terrible under the unions, it's the simple observation by many that only 5% of the bad apples teaching are creating the problems for everyone else, and dragging down our system. Just like a small portion are on welfare and social security, dragging down our social system who don't need it. If we actually had legitimate users, our social systems would be more efficient and less burdensome (i.e., taxes) on all of us.

wm lopez
06-04-11, 02:11 PM
To be a teacher you need to finish collage.
So if the teachers are bad than school makes no difference.
The real problem here are people who had no buiz having kids and now want the schools to raise their kids. I know I don't want their kids going to my kids school, because of some government voucher.
NAACP should open up their own school for the black kids.

wm lopez
06-04-11, 02:15 PM
And I for one cant figure out why people tolerate it. This is one area I cant see why people dont say fuck you to the union. In this case the product is far more important than the employee.
It's like with any job where you know management won't fix the problem.
So as an employee you say o.k. I'm not going to care and just be here and collect a check. In this case it's the parents who don't make sure kids do homework or respect the teacher.

Superboy
06-06-11, 01:36 PM
That is the flaw in the argument. When unions protect poor performers, which is a consistent complaint against all unions, they become a part of the problem.

Using your logic, all schools teach children, who also have parents, therefore children and parents can't be blamed because some children do well.

Unions aren't the only problem, and neither are unions per se, it's certain specific practices that lead to problems.

Yes, that is true. You can't blame the children and parents. Not when there's an entire institution that's failing them on multiple levels. And it's not the teacher's union.

Firing the bad teachers and keeping the good ones? how does that make the situation any better? it doesn't provide any incentive for teachers to improve.

It doesn't work because we've already tried it. We've already implemented a system where the students' performance would evaluate the quality of teachers and the schools.

But public schools are still on a downward slide.

Hank Ringworm
06-07-11, 12:30 AM
The unions aren't the problem.

It's amazing how dense these parents are.

Okay, let's take a sample.

Of the entire US public school system.

They all have unionized teachers.

So why do only some of them have terrible student performance?

It's the one variable that's consistent across the spectrum.

So if its invariable...

...then the actual variable must be corroborate and correlated with some other random variable.

So it's not unions, okay?

Are you trying to say black people are stupid?

Superboy
06-07-11, 03:27 AM
Are you trying to say black people are stupid?

...Yes.

logrus9
06-07-11, 07:54 AM
Yes, that is true. You can't blame the children and parents. Not when there's an entire institution that's failing them on multiple levels. And it's not the teacher's union.

Firing the bad teachers and keeping the good ones? how does that make the situation any better? it doesn't provide any incentive for teachers to improve.

It doesn't work because we've already tried it. We've already implemented a system where the students' performance would evaluate the quality of teachers and the schools.

But public schools are still on a downward slide.

OK, so it's not the kids, parents, teachers or unions.

That leaves us with

janitors
principals
buildings
books

:confused:

NotThatGuy
06-07-11, 08:12 AM
Books....books are STUPID...Yeah!!!! They are dumb heads! Boo books!

msdmoney
06-07-11, 03:09 PM
Firing the bad teachers and keeping the good ones? how does that make the situation any better? it doesn't provide any incentive for teachers to improve.

:hscratch:

BearFan
06-07-11, 03:34 PM
If we just spend a shitload more money on it, everything will be better.

NotThatGuy
06-07-11, 10:50 PM
If we just spend a shitload more money on it, everything will be better.

Obama...is that you?!!

creekdipper
06-08-11, 06:13 AM
I got the gist from grundle's poll choices!

:up: Exactly. Who has time to read articles anymore?

It's hard enough keeping up with our pol's tweets.

Superboy
06-08-11, 07:19 AM
OK, so it's not the kids, parents, teachers or unions.

That leaves us with

janitors
principals
buildings
books

:confused:

You forgot planters, concrete, and the weather.

BearFan
06-08-11, 08:22 AM
Obama...is that you?!!

Hope and Change baby!

wm lopez
06-08-11, 07:32 PM
...Yes.
No true. It's the inner city ones with the rap culture.
The same can be said for hillbillies.

grundle
06-08-11, 07:47 PM
And I for one cant figure out why people tolerate it. This is one area I cant see why people dont say fuck you to the union. In this case the product is far more important than the employee.

It does indeed seem odd - the demographic groups who suffer from the worst public education are the ones who are the most likely to vote for candidates who oppose school choice.

grundle
06-08-11, 07:48 PM
The unions aren't the problem.

It's amazing how dense these parents are.

Okay, let's take a sample.

Of the entire US public school system.

They all have unionized teachers.

So why do only some of them have terrible student performance?

It's the one variable that's consistent across the spectrum.

So if its invariable...

...then the actual variable must be corroborate and correlated with some other random variable.

So it's not unions, okay?


There are many different factors that affect the quality of schools.

But the unions consistently oppose school choice, regardless of how good or bad their own local schools are.

grundle
06-08-11, 08:01 PM
I'm posting this here because I already have enough threads in this forum, and it is education related.

This is really horrible. Obama is ultimately the one to take blame for this, as he is the one who nominated the upper people in the Department of Education, which ordered this SWAT raid. I doubt that anyone will get fired for this:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2001010/SWAT-team-launch-dawn-raid-family-home-collect-womans-unpaid-student-loans.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

A little over the top?: SWAT team launch dawn raid on family home to collect unpaid student loans

8th June 2011

A father was dragged from his home and handcuffed in front of his children by a SWAT team looking for his estranged wife - to collect her unpaid student loans.

A stunned Kenneth Wright had his front door kicked in by the raiding party at 6 am yesterday before being dragged onto his front porch, handcuffed and led to a police car with his three children.

He says he was then detained for six hours while officers looked for his wife - who no longer lives at the house.

Mr Wright was later told by Stockton police that the order to send in the SWAT team came from The U.S. Department of Education who were looking for his estranged wife to collect defaulted loan payments.

Speaking to ABC News 10, a visibly shaken Mr Wright described what happened when he was woken by a banging on his front door.

He said: 'I look out of my window and I see 15 police officers.

Dressed in his boxer shorts, Mr Wright says he rushed downstairs and was about to open the door when it was kicked open.

An officer then grabbed him by the neck before dragging him out onto the front lawn.

His 3, 7, and 11-year-old children were also removed by officers and put in a waiting police car.

'He had his knee on my back and I had no idea why they were there,' Mr Wright said.

'They put me in handcuffs in that hot patrol car for six hours, traumatising my kids.'

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/08/article-2001010-0C78B71400000578-981_468x286.jpg
Mr Wrights three children, who were also led to the car with him

The Department for Education refused to comment on the incident, saying they would not do so until the case was closed.

They did however confirm that their Office of the Inspector General had issued the search warrant.

The office has its own branch of federal agents that carry out search warrants and investigations.

Mr Wright is now trying to get compensation for the destroyed door.

Speaking to ABC, he demonstrated that although the door had been patched up, the handle no longer worked.

He said: 'They busted down my door for this.

'It wasn't even me.

'All I want is an apology for me and my kids and for them to get me a new door.'

He even had words of advice for anyone thinking of skipping paying their college bills.

He added: 'People who have student loans , pay your bills, take care of your credit.

'If you don't belive me, this could be you one morning 6 o'clock.'

Superboy
06-10-11, 03:29 AM
There are many different factors that affect the quality of schools.

Like?

Superboy
06-10-11, 03:37 AM
But the unions consistently oppose school choice, regardless of how good or bad their own local schools are.

There's a reason why they oppose it:

It's like having a race to determine who will go to the best school, and all the crippled kids get left behind.

You can't honestly expect students who receive a sub-standard education to suddenly pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get their act together to succeed. Not everyone has an above-average IQ (hence "above average). And you can't expect the average teacher to be a miracle worker (hence "average"). And believe me, if you actually bothered to do any research into this subject instead of constantly regurgitating the same tired rhetoric, you might have a change of opinion. But since you never respond to people who answer you when you "call them out" all the time, I won't even bother.

al_bundy
06-10-11, 08:29 AM
There are many different factors that affect the quality of schools.

But the unions consistently oppose school choice, regardless of how good or bad their own local schools are.

it's the parents who oppose school choice

no one who buys in a good school district wants to see kids bussed in from the bad school districts. especially when you're paying $15000 or so in property taxes a year for the good school district. there is a reason why i moved 3 blocks from one of the best elementary schools in NYC. and i don't want the kids from the bad schools being bussed into my kids' school

RoyalTea
06-10-11, 05:55 PM
There's a reason why they oppose it:

It's like having a race to determine who will go to the best school, and all the crippled kids get left behind.

I'll never understand this argument. It's essentially saying that school choice works, but since not everybody can get into the best schools, nobody should.

Right now, the "race to determine who will go to the best school" is based on which families can afford to live in the best public school districts. Please tell me you're not saying that a family's income should determine who goes to what school instead of test scores and merit.

Superboy
06-10-11, 09:38 PM
I'll never understand this argument. It's essentially saying that school choice works, but since not everybody can get into the best schools, nobody should.

Right now, the "race to determine who will go to the best school" is based on which families can afford to live in the best public school districts. Please tell me you're not saying that a family's income should determine who goes to what school instead of test scores and merit.

I'm not saying it won't work, but it won't work for the average student. Which is the problem in the first place: THE AVERAGE STUDENT CANNOT BE EXPECTED TO PERFORM ABOVE AVERAGE. Get it? see the problem there?

Or if you don't get that, here's an analogy: since we're having trouble with the deficit, and we don't want to raise taxes, we'll just ask Americans to make more money so more Americans are in higher tax brackets so tax revenue will increase so we'll pay down the deficit! YES! This plan will work! and if you are against this plan, you're against hard work and capitalism and choice!