DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
#101
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
My first Batman was around #243. I was mostly a Batman and Spiderman fan. I also remember hiding Supergirl #1 at my local Sellers (like a 7-11) until I got my allowance thinking, like Superman it would be worth a lot one day!
I haven't collected comics for 25 years. I had my own comic shop in the early 80's and my father used to speculate in buying the character toys -- we still have some old Megos in the attic. I have read some comics here and there over the years and thought they were pretty good. I was out of comics by the time the real speculation of the 90's started -- though I do remember Spiderman #1 being released in several different kinds of covers.
This kind of wide reboot only hurts comics. The big thing about comics for me was continuity and actually making reference to things that happen in the past as being catalysts for future events. People get hooked on something because they want to see what's next. If they are constantly starting over, there's no big incentive to to buy the next issue. That's why people watch soaps (or at least used to).
I do agree with one poster in that they need to make things a little more simple and not try to do tie-ins across every book they have just to get a complete story. I remember Marvel did this with Secret Wars and for the most part, it was just too much for most readers --- though at that time I collected almost every superhero book anyway. Perhaps long mini-series are the way to go. The one thing that they really should NOT do is allow digital downloads the same day as new releases. Maybe wait a month for the digital downloads so as not to strangle the comic shops that still survive. There used to be a ton of comic shops in Houston, now I think there are only 1 or 2 decent ones left. This could really backfire if they aren't careful.
And not allowing Action and Detective to get to 1000 is beyond a travesty.
I haven't collected comics for 25 years. I had my own comic shop in the early 80's and my father used to speculate in buying the character toys -- we still have some old Megos in the attic. I have read some comics here and there over the years and thought they were pretty good. I was out of comics by the time the real speculation of the 90's started -- though I do remember Spiderman #1 being released in several different kinds of covers.
This kind of wide reboot only hurts comics. The big thing about comics for me was continuity and actually making reference to things that happen in the past as being catalysts for future events. People get hooked on something because they want to see what's next. If they are constantly starting over, there's no big incentive to to buy the next issue. That's why people watch soaps (or at least used to).
I do agree with one poster in that they need to make things a little more simple and not try to do tie-ins across every book they have just to get a complete story. I remember Marvel did this with Secret Wars and for the most part, it was just too much for most readers --- though at that time I collected almost every superhero book anyway. Perhaps long mini-series are the way to go. The one thing that they really should NOT do is allow digital downloads the same day as new releases. Maybe wait a month for the digital downloads so as not to strangle the comic shops that still survive. There used to be a ton of comic shops in Houston, now I think there are only 1 or 2 decent ones left. This could really backfire if they aren't careful.
And not allowing Action and Detective to get to 1000 is beyond a travesty.
#102
Banned
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
DC has been quiet on the Batman and Superman front, so we don't know if they are getting renumbered or not. Action is still 8 years away from reaching #1000 though (assuming a consistent monthly schedule is maintained). There is a 99.9% chance that even if it is renumbered to #1 it will have gone back to original numbering in 8 years time.
#103
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Has it said how much digital comics are going to cost? Also, how much does DC make off each issue? Say an issue is $2.99, how much of that goes to DC? I can see it backfiring if it causes a lot of comic stores to close since they'd loose that revenue.
Personally, I wouldn't want digital comics. I like holding an issue to read, not look at a screen. IDW has digital comics & my friend has some. He said you can't actually download them, just few them. If I am paying for something, I want to own it and no be dependent on the service always being there.
Personally, I wouldn't want digital comics. I like holding an issue to read, not look at a screen. IDW has digital comics & my friend has some. He said you can't actually download them, just few them. If I am paying for something, I want to own it and no be dependent on the service always being there.
#104
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Anyone know what's happening with Grant Morrison's "Multiversity"? I thought it sounded like it would be fun. Is it dead?
#105
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Incidentally, Ty Templeton just responded to a post of mine on his blog about this very subject. I really do recommend taking a look at the initial post, which is a cartoon satirizing DC's 52 #1s scheme, but for the lazy here are his remarks about the subject of comic sales. My apologies for the large block of text, but that's exactly how he posted it, and I'm not about to take it upon myself to edit the guy.
That's not to say that DC and Marvel shouldn't try to make cheaper, magazine-like periodicals using reprints and the like, but putting it on newsprint and in black and white would affect the art, especially stuff that relies on modern coloring techniques. And this would be in addition to the monthly comics they're putting out, which would be the source material that would enable the anthology to be cheaper. It's not as simple as emulating Viz. The other argument has always been, put out manga-like collections, but they've tried that too. And the manga market domestically is in a huge slump, with Tokyopop shutting down publishing here.
As an aside, it's interesting that Viz is held up as a pioneer here, when for the longest time they cut up manga into American-comic-sized pieces that sold for pretty high prices, until Tokyopop brought over the Japanese tankouban model (they even did the anthology first) and got manga into bookstores.
Digital comics are going to cost the same as the monthly comic for now. After a month (or something like that) they will drop a buck, which is where I was getting the whole "cheaper back issues" thing. The good thing about digital is that if you pick up #4 and you like it, it's easy to pick up and find #1 to #3. This is one of the advantages of the reboot, if they make it so that you really don't need to pick up issues prior to the new #1s to understand the story. It does simplify the process a lot.
DC has said that this is not a complete reboot but they are selectively rebooting characters and concepts and keeping others, on a much bigger scale (supposedly) than even Crisis. I'm not saying that they won't go back in a year, but there's no way that's their current plan, because they would be ticking off all the new readers they're trying to gather, and there's no guarantee that the old readers who left because of the reboot would come back.
If anything, I think Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns's storylines are the safest, like I said before they put out the top selling books and Johns is the architect of DC right now.
As far as reading comics on a screen, the one new technology that has turned this around, at least for me, is the iPad and other tablets. Why Marvel hasn't yet come out with an app for their subscription service is beyond me. I realize most are not going to use their iPads for comic books, but that's gotta be what DC and others are counting on.
#106
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Even if only 10% or 15% is going to Comixology, that's a lot of money being left on the table if digital really takes off. Dark Horse probably did it right by just creating their own store. Didn't anyone learn anything from Diamond's monopoly? I haven't used Dark Horse's app on my iPad, but the one that DoubleFeature put together handles the reading experience pretty much perfectly. Clearly the cost to get an app like this off the ground isn't astronomical. I'm happy with the way Comixology works when I'm actually reading a comic, but the way they handle searching/browsing and the inability to group/filter is pretty terrible. I don't think they're doing much to justify the cut they're taking.
#107
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
How much does DC get for a physical issue? I know they sell to Diamond & Diamon sells to LCS. Both have to make a profit.
#108
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
DC's comics that are being released "day and date" will cost the same as their paper counterparts, $2.99 for a standard length issue. After one month the price will drop to $1.99.
As to how much DC gets from physical comics, the retailer discounts go up to something like 55% for the biggest retail accounts, and I think Diamond takes something like 10-15%, so I think DC probably gets something like 40% of the cover price. I'm not completely sure about Diamond's cut, but I sort of remember it being in that ballpark in the 90s, though that could have changed and it probably depends on what kind of contract the publisher has with Diamond. I'm sure Marvel and DC have good deals.
As to how much DC gets from physical comics, the retailer discounts go up to something like 55% for the biggest retail accounts, and I think Diamond takes something like 10-15%, so I think DC probably gets something like 40% of the cover price. I'm not completely sure about Diamond's cut, but I sort of remember it being in that ballpark in the 90s, though that could have changed and it probably depends on what kind of contract the publisher has with Diamond. I'm sure Marvel and DC have good deals.
#109
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Now that it's brought up, why not go with the Digest format? No kid cares about Mr. Terrific or Deadman. Just focus on the big names.
#110
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
This kind of wide reboot only hurts comics. The big thing about comics for me was continuity and actually making reference to things that happen in the past as being catalysts for future events. People get hooked on something because they want to see what's next. If they are constantly starting over, there's no big incentive to to buy the next issue. That's why people watch soaps (or at least used to).
Good point. That said there probably should be a balance though. INFINITE CRISIS is only accessible to hard core comic readers. I was trying to explain to my friend Superman, Superman from Earth-1, Superboy, Superboy Prime, the previous Crisis On Infinite Earths, etc. It's gotten to the point that you need Wikipedia to make sense of the stories.
I prefer the continuity of The Simpsons and I think that DC and Marvel should be more like that.
#112
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
The more I read about this, the less I believe it's an honest attempt to attract a new audience, than it is, one more attempt to bleed older readers out of their cash.
Batman #1
Batman The Dark Knight #1
Batman Inc #1
Batman & Robin #1
Detective Comics #1
Also:
Batgirl #1
Batwing #1
Batwoman #1
Nightwing #1
The reason I think this is because in the late 80s and early 90s when you only had 2 Bat-titles, they were selling 300,000+ copies.
Today, the top selling Batman comic averages 60,000 copies. Considering new readers, ie kids, don't have alot of mone/allowance to spend, I can only see the multitude of Batman titles as being discouraging to them.
I'm a Batman fan now, and even I don't know where to start when going to the comic shop. "Which comic is the MAIN one," I'm thinking. "I think Batman & Robin is the main one, because of Grant Morrison, but this issue is mostly about some red headed guy in prison and Thundercats. Maybe BATMAN is the one to buy, but if there's no Damien does that mean...What's this Batman: Arkham City? Is it in continuity?"
I'm an adult and I'm not going to be buying all these different Bat-titles each month just to get the whole story is not something I want to do. Even as a kid, I like to follow one or two titles every month, and once in a while try something new. I don't have the cash or the time to be buying and reading all these comics featuring the same character.
Batman #1
Batman The Dark Knight #1
Batman Inc #1
Batman & Robin #1
Detective Comics #1
Also:
Batgirl #1
Batwing #1
Batwoman #1
Nightwing #1
The reason I think this is because in the late 80s and early 90s when you only had 2 Bat-titles, they were selling 300,000+ copies.
Today, the top selling Batman comic averages 60,000 copies. Considering new readers, ie kids, don't have alot of mone/allowance to spend, I can only see the multitude of Batman titles as being discouraging to them.
I'm a Batman fan now, and even I don't know where to start when going to the comic shop. "Which comic is the MAIN one," I'm thinking. "I think Batman & Robin is the main one, because of Grant Morrison, but this issue is mostly about some red headed guy in prison and Thundercats. Maybe BATMAN is the one to buy, but if there's no Damien does that mean...What's this Batman: Arkham City? Is it in continuity?"
I'm an adult and I'm not going to be buying all these different Bat-titles each month just to get the whole story is not something I want to do. Even as a kid, I like to follow one or two titles every month, and once in a while try something new. I don't have the cash or the time to be buying and reading all these comics featuring the same character.
#113
Banned
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Its official. Babs is Batgirl again.
I think I am pretty much done with collecting comic books. As bad as a rep the 90s gets, I enjoyed that decade more than I have enjoyed this decade. Unless this reboot gets absolutely stellar reviews, I doubt if I will be buying any new comics any longer. I have thousands of comics from the 80s and 90s I can re-read whenever I get the itch to read comics.
I think I am pretty much done with collecting comic books. As bad as a rep the 90s gets, I enjoyed that decade more than I have enjoyed this decade. Unless this reboot gets absolutely stellar reviews, I doubt if I will be buying any new comics any longer. I have thousands of comics from the 80s and 90s I can re-read whenever I get the itch to read comics.
#114
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I'm an adult and I'm not going to be buying all these different Bat-titles each month just to get the whole story is not something I want to do. Even as a kid, I like to follow one or two titles every month, and once in a while try something new. I don't have the cash or the time to be buying and reading all these comics featuring the same character.
I guess my point would be that, while I appreciate some characters have much greater popularity than others, maybe it's a good thing for the industry not to allow a few characters to dominate the shelves. No one forced me to get into Batman or Superman, but because I did get into them, it was a sort of black hole of a commitment just to keep up with it because of the massive stories told across so many titles.
I mean, hell, at one time I was buying Batman, Batman: Shadow of the Bat, Catwoman, Detective Comics and Robin just to keep up with one storyline...and that was on top of The Batman Adventures (or whichever incarnation was in print at the time) and Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (which, for a brief time, was also drawn into participating in the main story). By the time I had become exhausted with all the Bat-books, I had become so burned out that even when I quit buying those I just didn't even want to begin exploring Bone, Strangers in Paradise or The Tick or anything else and I just quit buying comics altogether until recently.
#115
Suspended
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
iFanboy is compiling a definitive list of the titles/creative teams/covers that have been announced so far:
http://www.ifanboy.com/content/artic..._Comics_Reboot
http://www.ifanboy.com/content/artic..._Comics_Reboot
#116
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I'm an adult and I'm not going to be buying all these different Bat-titles each month just to get the whole story is not something I want to do. Even as a kid, I like to follow one or two titles every month, and once in a while try something new. I don't have the cash or the time to be buying and reading all these comics featuring the same character.
But I do hear what you're saying.
#117
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Damn it, the only thing that could get me to by a DC comic (and at this point any comic in general) is Jim Lee. I hate myself for being a Jim Lee fanboy.
I didn't read all 5 pages but this is obviously just a limited storyline and the numbering will go back when the story is done. See Heroes Reborn, see Age of Apocalypse.
I didn't read all 5 pages but this is obviously just a limited storyline and the numbering will go back when the story is done. See Heroes Reborn, see Age of Apocalypse.
#118
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Damn it, the only thing that could get me to by a DC comic (and at this point any comic in general) is Jim Lee. I hate myself for being a Jim Lee fanboy.
I didn't read all 5 pages but this is obviously just a limited storyline and the numbering will go back when the story is done. See Heroes Reborn, see Age of Apocalypse.
I didn't read all 5 pages but this is obviously just a limited storyline and the numbering will go back when the story is done. See Heroes Reborn, see Age of Apocalypse.
#119
DVD Talk Legend
#120
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
DC is being very cagey right now about the numbering issue, trying to ramp up fanboy angst to generate publicity. Action and Detective will definitely go back to the classic numbering at some point. I do think some of the character revamps will be permanent. Wally West fans better accept Barry Allen as the main Flash now, because certain characters are definitely getting less attention moving forward. Returning Barbara Gordon to the role of Batgirl is interesting, that seems a move largely dictated to get the mainstream understanding of the character in line with the comics.
#121
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I was excited about hearing the news of digital comics getting more of a push and thinking "Maybe Ill come back and stay back now." Then I read about Batgirl and decided "naw, same old shit..."
#122
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I'm not saying that they won't do this eventually if sales tank and they realize it's better to have the old fogey readers than none at all (though I'm not sure all would come back), but I can't see this as part of the plan. They change Superman to an electrical entity, or they break Batman's back, sure, those are big events, but you know it'll go back to status quo. Do it Heroes Reborn style and keep the majority of the books in the "old" universe, sure, that'll go back eventually. But reboot a ton of characters and almost the entire line of comic books... how long did it take them to unwind Crisis (which I still think was a monumentally bad idea, and probably started all this)?
#123
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
The old fogey is their audience and that's not going to change. It's an incredibly tight rope to walk when they they're trying to say to new readers that "look our characters are young and hip and you can even read the first issue" then put the classic version on screen. It's always going to go back to catering to the fogey's because they're the only ones that can put their minds around 5 different versions and origins of the same character.
And keep in mind that this is only a perfect jumping on point for one month. It's one of the reasons that all of the Marvel reboots always go back to normal along with the old numbering. How easy is Daredevil to jump on now? Captain America?
And keep in mind that this is only a perfect jumping on point for one month. It's one of the reasons that all of the Marvel reboots always go back to normal along with the old numbering. How easy is Daredevil to jump on now? Captain America?
#124
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
The old fogey is their audience and that's not going to change. It's an incredibly tight rope to walk when they they're trying to say to new readers that "look our characters are young and hip and you can even read the first issue" then put the classic version on screen. It's always going to go back to catering to the fogey's because they're the only ones that can put their minds around 5 different versions and origins of the same character.
And keep in mind that this is only a perfect jumping on point for one month. It's one of the reasons that all of the Marvel reboots always go back to normal along with the old numbering. How easy is Daredevil to jump on now? Captain America?
And keep in mind that this is only a perfect jumping on point for one month. It's one of the reasons that all of the Marvel reboots always go back to normal along with the old numbering. How easy is Daredevil to jump on now? Captain America?
The problem with the old fogeys: you are alienating this readership with this move. You are basically telling them that all the stories they invested in for the past few months/years/whatever never happened, which is a tough sell for a community so invested in continuity. Granted, this happens all the time in comics, but this makes it blatantly obvious.
Now it may be true that we are sufficiently addicted to monthly comics that it doesn't matter how much you abuse us, we'll come back. But if you lose even a small fraction of the already small and diminishing audience and if you don't at least replace that same number with new readers, that's bad. Personally, this moves me to official wait-fot-the-trade mentality for DC and only if things get reviewed well. That may not make much difference in the bottom line for DC, but a lot of comics and characters I've loyally collected for years monthly will be dropped. So hopefully they use this opportunity to put out some awesome books.
#125
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
DC has been quiet on the Batman and Superman front, so we don't know if they are getting renumbered or not. Action is still 8 years away from reaching #1000 though (assuming a consistent monthly schedule is maintained). There is a 99.9% chance that even if it is renumbered to #1 it will have gone back to original numbering in 8 years time.
The problem with the old fogeys: you are alienating this readership with this move. You are basically telling them that all the stories they invested in for the past few months/years/whatever never happened, which is a tough sell for a community so invested in continuity. Granted, this happens all the time in comics, but this makes it blatantly obvious.
Now it may be true that we are sufficiently addicted to monthly comics that it doesn't matter how much you abuse us, we'll come back. But if you lose even a small fraction of the already small and diminishing audience and if you don't at least replace that same number with new readers, that's bad.
Now it may be true that we are sufficiently addicted to monthly comics that it doesn't matter how much you abuse us, we'll come back. But if you lose even a small fraction of the already small and diminishing audience and if you don't at least replace that same number with new readers, that's bad.
Honestly, as long as they keep most of the biggies (Supes is from Krypton, Bats parents were killed, and so on), most people won't care. How many times has a new writer taken a left turn with a character, only to see new writers basically throw that stuff in the lake when they take over? No revamp. No new number 1 issue. And yet that's OK with everyone.