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View Full Version : The One and Only "Where Does JasonF Disagree with President Obama" Thread


JasonF
04-25-11, 03:57 PM
Since certain posters seem to be obsessed with me and my political views -- in particular, where those views differ from the administration -- I thought I'd post this thread so we can keep this shit out of the other threads. So, for the record:

I think the administration's record on the Fourth Amendment is pretty deplorable. They are continuing, and even worse, expanding, the previous administration's policies with respect to engaging in surveilance without obtaining warrants. For example, the administration took the position that law enforcement can attach a tracking device to someone's car without a warrant. I disagree with this.
I support full repeal of DOMA.
I think the focus on austerity is wrong-headed given current economic conditions. I would prefer to see more stimulative policies for the next 12-18 months before we start trying to talk about a balanced budget.
I think our Afghanistan policy has been an abject failure and we need to rethink it.
I think the Obama administration let Wall Street off far too easily for its role in the economic collapse. I think some of what was done amounts to fraud and should have been prosecuted.

There's five, which is what classicman asked for, so maybe we can go back to discussing substance in the other threads instead of trying to turn everything into a referrendum on JasonF's view of the Obama administration.

orangecrush
04-25-11, 04:02 PM
Oh, sure you disagree on those things, but let me ask you this: why are you such an Obama apologist?

Th0r S1mpson
04-25-11, 04:04 PM
Disagree: 5
Agree: 327,478

It's like saying there's one particular paragraph of the health care bill that you think could be improved.

classicman2
04-25-11, 04:19 PM
How about the U.S. excursion in Libya? Do you disagree with that?

JasonF, as demonstrated by his new thread, doesn't disagree with Obama on the really important issues that affect the U.S.

Groucho
04-25-11, 04:21 PM
You know who else disagrees with some of Obama's policies? BIN LADEN.

Ky-Fi
04-25-11, 04:29 PM
Man, I'm not a big fan of the guy either, but do we really need more Obama-bashing threads?

aktick
04-25-11, 04:35 PM
Man, I'm not a big fan of the guy either, but do we really need more Obama-bashing threads?

No. But there can never be enough JasonF bashing threads. :mad:

Supermallet
04-25-11, 04:47 PM
Since certain posters seem to be obsessed with me and my political views

http://www.murderati.com/storage/paranoid-cat.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1256816323281

Navinabob
04-25-11, 04:52 PM
Meh... at least you are not a Birther. Your objections at least come from somewhere rational (not saying I agree with them, but you are not bat-shit crazy like some folk).

Th0r S1mpson
04-25-11, 05:03 PM
JasonF, as demonstrated by his new thread, doesn't disagree with Obama on the really important issues that affect the U.S.

I'm really not sure what your point is. It's not a crime to side with the President on a wide array of important issues. The President has reasoning for decisions and it's not unlikely for like-minded people to agree with said reasoning.

I'm all for open-mindedness, but agreement on "the really important issues" does not imply that critical thinking is not taking place.

It would probably be equally difficult for you to come up with a list of things you agree with the President on, and you claim to be in his party. Your quantity of posts disagreeing probably equal JasonF's that agree.

But this seems to be getting awfully personal for the politics forum at this point.

Supermallet
04-25-11, 05:07 PM
Having observed both closely over the past several years, I can confidently say that JasonF and classicman both display roughly the same amount of critical thinking.

Dr Mabuse
04-25-11, 05:09 PM
Somebody hand Thor a Kleenex.

It looks like he's about to bust out cryin.

Th0r S1mpson
04-25-11, 05:13 PM
:lol:

Crying on the inside :(

Ky-Fi
04-25-11, 05:14 PM
This thread's bringin' it. :lol:

Supermallet
04-25-11, 05:18 PM
:lol:

Crying on the inside :(

:lol:

http://www.neatorama.com/images/2007-01/bizarro-clown-crying-on-the-inside.gif

JasonF
04-25-11, 05:22 PM
How about the U.S. excursion in Libya? Do you disagree with that?

I think I've made clear my very mixed emotions on the U.S. involvement in Libya. Briefly, I take a pragmatic view on intervention, balancing the cost of intervention (human life, financial, and the soft costs like how our intervention will be perceived by others) against the benefits of intervention (primarily through the lens of our national interests, but also taking some account of broader humanitarian interests). At this point, I think there is enough of a case to be made that the benefits of a no-fly zone outweigh the costs, but it would take some persuading to convince me that putting boots on the ground is the right decision.

JasonF, as demonstrated by his new thread, doesn't disagree with Obama on the really important issues that affect the U.S.

In classicman's world, civil liberties and our economy are not the really important issues that affect the U.S. Good to know. Tell me -- how has the fact that we are firing misiles into Libya affected your life?

JasonF
04-25-11, 05:27 PM
Having observed both closely over the past several years, I can confidently say that JasonF and classicman both display roughly the same amount of critical thinking.

You, sir, have been reported to the mods for that personal attack.

(Seriously, I've always tried to apply critical thinking. I was never a knee-jerk Bush-basher and, contrary to what I keep getting accused of, I don't reflexively support President Obama. If that's not coming across in my posts, perhaps I need to work on my communication skills).

Rockmjd23
04-25-11, 05:29 PM
^you're assuming that Suprmallet doesn't believe classicman is a critical thinker

;)

shadowhawk2020
04-25-11, 05:32 PM
Maybe his summer home is in Lybia?

Th0r S1mpson
04-25-11, 05:38 PM
I think I've made clear my very mixed emotions on the U.S. involvement in Libya. Briefly, I take a pragmatic view on intervention, balancing the cost of intervention (human life, financial, and the soft costs like how our intervention will be perceived by others) against the benefits of intervention (primarily through the lens of our national interests, but also taking some account of broader humanitarian interests). At this point, I think there is enough of a case to be made that the benefits of a no-fly zone outweigh the costs, but it would take some persuading to convince me that putting boots on the ground is the right decision.

It's amazing how much this reads like an Obama press release.

Unfortunately, the only correct answers were "make love not war" and "bomb bomb bomb... bomb bomb libya (while slurring the end in an attempt to pronounce "libya" in a manner that the ya part sounds like the end of "Iran," with an old geezer grin at the end... try it, it's fun)."

Venusian
04-25-11, 08:25 PM
JasonF, as demonstrated by his new thread, doesn't disagree with Obama on the really important issues that affect the U.S.

The war in afganistan isn't an important issue but the war in libya is?

classicman2
04-25-11, 09:10 PM
Of course Afghanistan is an important issue. Afghanistan is Obama's war now; but, he wasn't the one that initially committed U.S. forces. Therefore, I give him somewhat of a pass on Afghanistan.

Obama's excursion into Libya, IMO, is one of the top foreign policy blunders in recent memory. You can't give him a pass on Libya. He's totally responsible for our participation.

The only way you can 'justify' our participation in Libya, and not Syria for example, is the lame excuse - 'well we can't do everything.'

Th0r S1mpson
04-25-11, 09:27 PM
War in Afghanistan. :lol:

That's so 8 years ago...

Edit: Almost 10. Ouch. Really? That should be a fun anniversary for the President to manage.

MoviePage
04-26-11, 02:27 AM
Of course Afghanistan is an important issue. Afghanistan is Obama's war now; but, he wasn't the one that initially committed U.S. forces. Therefore, I give him somewhat of a pass on Afghanistan.

I think JasonF's true purpose in creating this thread has been accomplished with this historic admission.

classicman2
04-26-11, 07:57 AM
I don't give him a 'complete pass.' Afterall, he is the CIC of the U.S. armed forces. He can withdraw anytime he wants to.

Whether that is the wise thing to do - we can debate that.

CRM114
04-26-11, 09:00 AM
Of course Afghanistan is an important issue. Afghanistan is Obama's war now; but, he wasn't the one that initially committed U.S. forces. Therefore, I give him somewhat of a pass on Afghanistan.

Obama's excursion into Libya, IMO, is one of the top foreign policy blunders in recent memory. You can't give him a pass on Libya. He's totally responsible for our participation.

The only way you can 'justify' our participation in Libya, and not Syria for example, is the lame excuse - 'well we can't do everything.'

Launching a bunch of missiles is "one of the top foreign policy blunders in recent memory?"

Ah, classicman2 hyperbole. Haters hate. :)

Whether that is the wise thing to do - we can debate that.

Damn! I knew we missed a topic!

classicman2
04-26-11, 09:12 AM
Obviously you don't seem to be able to understand the consequences of any military action that wasn't necessary.

When we commit any military force when a vital U.S. national interest is not at stake is a dangerous foreign policy decision and a senseless one IMO.

Of course a dyed-in-the-wool Obamaton might think differently. :)

If George W. Bush had done this, you would be screaming to high heaven.

And I would be screaming to high heaven. ;)

CRM114
04-26-11, 10:47 AM
If only George showed such restraint and committed only peripheral help as we did in Libya.

aktick
04-26-11, 12:34 PM
Haters hate. :)


http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm162/Richo92/hatersgonnahate.gif

RoyalTea
04-26-11, 04:31 PM
Since this thread exists, I'd like to see where you agree with former President Bush (43).

JasonF
04-26-11, 04:48 PM
Since this thread exists, I'd like to see where you agree with former President Bush (43).

I thought his rhetoric on the relationship between Islam and the west was outstanding.

I thought he did a good job of providing assistance to veterans.

I thought TARP was important and necessary, and I thought President Bush showed courage in bucking the libertarian elements of his base in acting to prevent wholesale collapse on Wall Street.

Those are three that immediately come to mind.

You didn't ask, but I can think of at least one area where I strongly, strongly, strongly agree with Vice President Cheney -- he and I are both pro-shooting-Republicans-in-the-face.

(That's a joke. No actual Republicans were harmed in the making of this post. One actual Republican was harmed in the making of Vice President Cheney's hunting trip, but that Republican apologized to Vice President Cheney, so everything is OK).

wmansir
04-26-11, 05:19 PM
Launching a bunch of missiles is "one of the top foreign policy blunders in recent memory?"

It's only out of the top spot because the R1 DVD giftset's position is pretty much unassailable.

creekdipper
04-26-11, 06:57 PM
Who's JasonF?

And why isn't there a Grundle poll?

Mabuse
04-27-11, 12:45 PM
Has anyone noticed that the 5 things JasonF doesn't like about Obama are 5 things that he wishes Obama were MORE liberal about.

Austerity-no/More spending-yes
Balanced budget-no/more stimulus please
He doesn't like that Obama is too much like the repubs regarding the 4th amendement, warrants, etc.
Obama let Wall Street off

JasonF's perfect candidate would be someone just like Obama, but even looser with the money, who'd put the ACLU in charge of the police and courts, and would parade bankers through the streets in chains.

dork
04-27-11, 12:51 PM
Agreed with everyone else: JasonF does not hate Obama nearly enough and where he does hate him, it's for the wrong reasons. Why has he not been banned yet?

VinVega
04-27-11, 01:00 PM
JasonF has reached celebrity status. This thread has all sorts of win in it. :lol:

I think Thor is ready to take up the mantle of "The Voice of Reason" of the forum. ;)

Ky-Fi
04-27-11, 01:02 PM
In fairness, I don't think JasonF was ever arguing that he's not liberal---he's just saying that, although he did browse through this issue at the newsstand, he did NOT actually purchase it:

http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/barack-obama_0-228x300.jpg

Tracer Bullet
04-27-11, 01:30 PM
JasonF's perfect candidate would be someone just like Obama, but even looser with the money, who'd put the ACLU in charge of the police and courts, and would parade bankers through the streets in chains.

Sounds good to me! :thumbsup:

wendersfan
04-27-11, 04:00 PM
Has anyone noticed that the 5 things JasonF doesn't like about Obama are 5 things that he wishes Obama were MORE liberal about.

JasonF is a liberal Democrat. Obama is a not-so-liberal Democrat. ALL the liberal Democrats I know feel the same about Obama as JasonF - they generally like him, but would like him to be more liberal, especially on social issues.

I realize this is a joke thread, but it still astounds me that people continue to be surprised that someone who has had a reputation here for a decade as a liberal Democrat might actually agree with Obama on almost every issue. In their two years together in the Senate, Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton voted together more than 95% of the time. This is what partisan ideologues do - they agree with one another. It's not weird, it's not a conspiracy, it's the way things work.

X
04-27-11, 04:04 PM
Obama is a not-so-liberal Democrat.Wouldn't he be more accurately described as a not-so-liberal-acting-only-because-the-American-public-wouldn't-accept-it Democrat?

wendersfan
04-27-11, 04:06 PM
Wouldn't he be better described as a not-so-liberal-acting-only-because-the-American-public-wouldn't-accept-it Democrat?Not if you believe that a man is defined by his actions.

Also, positing a mono-dimensional, Downsian space, it's not a stretch to say that JasonF is to the left of Obama, 'constrained' or 'real'.

X
04-27-11, 04:07 PM
Not if you believe that a man is defined by his actions.Before or after he runs for office and needs votes?

creekdipper
04-27-11, 05:19 PM
JasonF has reached celebrity status. This thread has all sorts of win in it. :lol:


Anybody who starts a thread about himself (thereby referring to himself in the 3rd person, at least indirectly) has most definitely reached celebrity status.

JasonF has now forfeited any peace & privacy & can expect to see the TMZ crew parked outside his dwelling from now on. :(

Th0r S1mpson
04-27-11, 05:34 PM
JasonF has now forfeited any peace & privacy & can expect to see the TMZ crew parked outside his dwelling from now on. :(

You were right!

<img src="http://eyeonwilliamson.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/obama_yard.jpg">

crazyronin
04-27-11, 07:06 PM
positing a mono-dimensional, Downsian space, it's not a stretch to say that JasonF is to the left of Obama, 'constrained' or 'real'.


Gol' darnit, Mr. wendersfan. You use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.

classicman2
04-27-11, 07:40 PM
:lol:

JasonF
04-27-11, 09:30 PM
Anybody who starts a thread about himself (thereby referring to himself in the 3rd person, at least indirectly) has most definitely reached celebrity status.

JasonF has now forfeited any peace & privacy & can expect to see the TMZ crew parked outside his dwelling from now on. :(

"From now on?" Last week, I saw a man hiding in my bushes with a pair of binoculars and a notepad. I'm pretty sure it was classicman.

classicman2
04-28-11, 07:43 AM
JasonF is not the most liberal poster we have on this forum - not by a long shot.

I'm not sure he's left of Obama.

That's my opinion.

dork
04-28-11, 10:26 AM
JasonF is not the most liberal poster we have on this forum
Geez, way to kick a guy when he's down. -ohbfrank-

BKenn01
04-28-11, 07:30 PM
JasonF is not the most liberal poster we have on this forum - not by a long shot.

I'm not sure he's left of Obama.

That's my opinion.

I believe CRM114 can out Liberal JasonF any day;)

Hank Ringworm
04-29-11, 12:16 AM
Before or after he runs for office and needs votes?

:up:

A man shouldn't be defined by his actions; he should be defined by actions mitigated by environment. If I would love to murder all sterile women, but am prevented by doing so by my fear of punishment, am I a potentially great person?

He who defines a man by his actions alone is a damned fool, even when he uses big words.

Supermallet
04-29-11, 04:22 AM
Geez, way to kick a guy when he's down. -ohbfrank-

:lol:

I'll say, I'm shocked this thread has been handled so well. I just assumed it was going to get locked after ten posts. And people say they're afraid to come into Politics. Pssh.

JasonF
04-29-11, 07:01 AM
I think this means that I really agree with President Obama about everything, but I pretend I don't because I'm afraid of being called an Obamaton. Actions constrained by environment, QED.

(On the other hand, George W. Bush believes in all that is good and right and holy. Anything he ever did that was wrong doesn't reflect his true belief, but only the imperfect environment in which he was forced to operate. Shame on us for not giving him the world he deserved).

VinVega
04-29-11, 07:35 AM
:up:

A man shouldn't be defined by his actions; he should be defined by actions mitigated by environment. If I would love to murder all sterile women, but am prevented by doing so by my fear of punishment, am I a potentially great person?
I wouldn't say you were a potentially great person, I'd call you a functional member of society.

Now, anyone who sits in the Oval office has the potential/possibility to be great just given the awesome power of the office.

Red Dog
04-29-11, 12:32 PM
This list is no surprise - the disagreements are few and far between. And in reality, his position on DOMA is completely meaningless. Even if his DOJ doesn't defend it in court, somebody will. As for your civil liberty disagreements, it's not like you've been all that loud about it either. But I find that attitude prevalent from liberals - aside from abortion, they don't care much about civil liberties.

RoyalTea
04-29-11, 02:18 PM
But I find that attitude prevalent from liberals - aside from abortion, they don't care much about civil liberties.

I think most people only care about civil liberties when the other "team" is in power.

Sean O'Hara
04-29-11, 02:33 PM
:up:

A man shouldn't be defined by his actions; he should be defined by actions mitigated by environment. If I would love to murder all sterile women, but am prevented by doing so by my fear of punishment, am I a potentially great person?

He who defines a man by his actions alone is a damned fool, even when he uses big words.

Horsehockey. You can think happy thoughts all day long, but if you don't go out and do something to make the world a better place, what does it matter? Your actions are all the world has to judge you by.

Navinabob
04-29-11, 02:34 PM
I think most people only care about civil liberties when the other "team" is in power.

Bingo!

Hank Ringworm
04-30-11, 11:16 PM
Horsehockey. You can think happy thoughts all day long, but if you don't go out and do something to make the world a better place, what does it matter? Your actions are all the world has to judge you by.

You assume that the world's judgment of me is absolute. Also, that there is no good in simply doing no harm.

I happen to agree with you, in a way.

Hank Ringworm
04-30-11, 11:17 PM
I think this means that I really agree with President Obama about everything, but I pretend I don't because I'm afraid of being called an Obamaton. Actions constrained by environment, QED.

(On the other hand, George W. Bush believes in all that is good and right and holy. Anything he ever did that was wrong doesn't reflect his true belief, but only the imperfect environment in which he was forced to operate. Shame on us for not giving him the world he deserved).

You're right, in this. Though I don't think our President would agree with you.

Hank Ringworm
04-30-11, 11:19 PM
I would also say that it is lamentable that we live in a time when any two-bit jerk can construct an environment and make believe that everything is relative thereto.

Hank Ringworm
04-30-11, 11:24 PM
I wouldn't say you were a potentially great person, I'd call you a functional member of society.

Now, anyone who sits in the Oval office has the potential/possibility to be great just given the awesome power of the office.

What if, in the grand scheme of things, it was a good idea to kill all sterile women?

Could each man's environment be his own Oval Office?

Th0r S1mpson
05-01-11, 12:28 AM
I would also say that it is lamentable that we live in a time when any two-bit jerk can construct an environment and make believe that everything is relative thereto.

<img src="http://images.teamsugar.com/files/upl1/10/104169/22_2008/3208859.preview.jpg">

Too soon.

Hank Ringworm
05-01-11, 12:46 AM
Too soon.

:up:

creekdipper
05-01-11, 02:10 AM
"From now on?" Last week, I saw a man hiding in my bushes with a pair of binoculars and a notepad. I'm pretty sure it was classicman.

To quote a famous gas-station attendant:

"Citizen's A-ray-est! Citizen's A-ray-est!"