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View Full Version : Before i disput a buy on eBay...


JZ1276
12-17-10, 01:36 AM
I recently purchased an old school Technics receiver on eBay and got it today.
No manual no big deal. Wasnt stated in the item description though. It also didnt come with the remote or AC power cord which also wasnt stated. I sent the seller a msg saying "Where is the remote, power cord, and users manual? Nowhere in the item description did you state these things would not be included and it should've been. You can either issue me a partial refund ($30 would be fair) or I can return the item back to you for a full refund."

He replied saying
"I can send along a power cable if necessary. Typically when accessories are included with used items its stated. The remote was never in my possession, nor did I indicate that it would be included. I don't mind working out a partial refund but I don't accept that the receiver is advertised as misleading. Let me know what you think. Thanks and I apologize for any inconvenience."

I disagree. With me it's the other way around. If accessories with used items ARE NOT included then it should be stated. I've been selling on eBay since the beginning and have always stated if some of the original accessories are not included. He seems to be cooperating but after I hooked up the receiver to make sure it works, I found there is no built in tuner. I thought a receiver ALWAYS has a built in tuner and if it doesn't then that makes it an amplifier. The item was titled "TECHNICS SU-G91 Integrated Stereo Amplifier Receiver".
What does everyone think?

JMG
12-17-10, 02:23 AM
Send that shit back that chump will never win. Case closed son!

TheNightFlier
12-17-10, 08:26 AM
Send it back.

I've sold a lot of used stuff on eBay, and if something was missing I would always put that in the description.

ben12
12-17-10, 11:08 AM
If you can get a full refund by returning it, I say go for it because I think you're in the wrong. You can't assume something's included for a used item unless it's specifically stated in the ad.

Unless the ad stated this was "complete" or something like that, the seller's in the right.

Me007gold
12-17-10, 01:28 PM
If you can get a full refund by returning it, I say go for it because I think you're in the wrong. You can't assume something's included for a used item unless it's specifically stated in the ad.

Unless the ad stated this was "complete" or something like that, the seller's in the right.

I disagree. If its not included it should be mentioned in the ad.

JMG
12-17-10, 01:52 PM
If you can get a full refund by returning it, I say go for it because I think you're in the wrong. You can't assume something's included for a used item unless it's specifically stated in the ad.

Unless the ad stated this was "complete" or something like that, the seller's in the right.



You must be selling a ton of wii/x-box/ps3 system boxes this year. By your logic all I would have to do is list a item and not state complete and I would be "in the right";)

CaptainMarvel
12-17-10, 01:54 PM
I looked at the auction. I kind of think it's scummy, but he took two pictures that showed just the unit. The listing never made representation that any accessories came with it. You got exactly what was advertised. I'd be inclined to say the auction should stand as is.

Groucho
12-17-10, 03:48 PM
If I buy a used item, the assumption is that it includes everything that came in the box, including manual and all accessories. Unless stated otherwise.

OmahaStar
12-17-10, 07:44 PM
I believe I've found the auction here (http://cgi.ebay.com/TECHNICS-SU-G91-Integrated-Stereo-Amplifier-Receiver-/220707151009?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item33632bdca1).

At first, I would have agreed with ben12 about it not being included unless it specifically says it, but the seller does state this:

This receiver works properly and is in very good condition.

If there is no power cord, it cannot possibly work properly. That, at a minimum, should have been included and (in my opinion) you have a right to have that included. Obviously, the seller has a power cord, because he claims it works properly and therefore must have tested it.

The manual, however, I don't agree with. Nowhere does it say the manual would be included, and you cannot possibly expect it to be on something that is 17 years old.

And the same thing with the remote. It is "old school" as you mentioned, and sometimes you just have to walk across the room and change the channel on something that is "old school." Most universal remotes would easily be able to handle something like this.

To sum it up .... Yes to the power cord, no to the rest, unless it says it's included in the auction.

JZ1276
12-17-10, 07:57 PM
I believe I've found the auction here (http://cgi.ebay.com/TECHNICS-SU-G91-Integrated-Stereo-Amplifier-Receiver-/220707151009?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item33632bdca1).

At first, I would have agreed with ben12 about it not being included unless it specifically says it, but the seller does state this:



If there is no power cord, it cannot possibly work properly. That, at a minimum, should have been included and (in my opinion) you have a right to have that included. Obviously, the seller has a power cord, because he claims it works properly and therefore must have tested it.

The manual, however, I don't agree with. Nowhere does it say the manual would be included, and you cannot possibly expect it to be on something that is 17 years old.

And the same thing with the remote. It is "old school" as you mentioned, and sometimes you just have to walk across the room and change the channel on something that is "old school." Most universal remotes would easily be able to handle something like this.

To sum it up .... Yes to the power cord, no to the rest, unless it says it's included in the auction.

I really dont care about the manual or the remote, as long as all the functions are on the receiver itself. I still think he shouldve stated they are not included though. My main gripe with him is that he advertises it as a receiver and that there is no built in tuner.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi
12-17-10, 08:32 PM
If I buy a used item, the assumption

And that's where you instantly fail. You do know what assuming gets you? Now combine that with shopping on ebay. How could you possibly go wrong ;)

If I don't see something listed, I don't assume it'll be there. I don't expect to get something that isn't in an auction, especially if it's not listed as new.

DeepSleep
12-17-10, 11:36 PM
I believe I've found the auction here (http://cgi.ebay.com/TECHNICS-SU-G91-Integrated-Stereo-Amplifier-Receiver-/220707151009?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item33632bdca1).



If the above link is the correct auction in question, then here are my comments. For the record, I have never bought or sold anything on ebay and I do not own any stock in the company either. I am also NOT familiar with this particular item.

Where do I begin? There is so much to say...

I am not taking sides with either the buyer or seller. This is just a pair of fresh eyes looking at the situation.

The seller titles the auction as "TECHNICS SU-G91 Integrated Stereo Amplifier Receiver"

The item is mislabled. The picture clearly shows the item and the name in the upper left hand corner of the unit says: Technics Stereo Integrated Amplifier SU-G91. "

This item is an NOT a receiver. You can also tell this by looking at the picture. Also, you can Google it and all the descriptions about the SU-G91 says it is an amplifier only, not a receiver.

The item is used. The 2 pictures show only the amplifier itself. No accessories are shown or mentioned in the description. There is no reasonable basis that an owners manual, remote or power cord would be included in the price.

I noticed that at the bottom of the auction there is a place/procedure where a potential bidder could ask a question. Why didn't the buyer ask the seller if the remote, owners manual and power cord is part of the sale???? just to be sure.

A quick Google search (wow! Google is real handy) would have shown that a remote for the SU-G91 can be purchased for $85, the owners manual is $13 and the power cord is $10.

http://www.technics.newremotecontrol.com/catalog_item.php?catnum=RAK-SA902MH


Not sure how ebay would handle this sort of situation. The seller clearly mislabled the title of the auction, but a quick look at the item picture shows that the item is an amplifier and NOT a receiver. If there was any doubt, the buyer should have asked the seller a question in the space provided.

The provenance of the item is not mentioned. A quick look at the sellers other items indicate that the seller probably buys stuff for resale on ebay. He probably gets stuff from garage sales, lawn sales, dumpster diving, thrift shops etc. The buyer should have asked if the owners manual, power cord and remote are included. After all, the item is used and there is no mention of those items in the description or in the picture.

The buyer is now asking for a $30 credit. If the buyer wants to buy the accessories he feels should have come with the amplifier, it will cost him $108 plus shipping. (See link above).

Conclusion: The seller clearly mislabled the auction, but a quick look at the picture provided showed the item to be an amplifier only. The buyer could have done 2 minutes of due diligence on Google on the item to confirm this info. The buyer assumed that the remote, owners manual and power cord are included? Those items were not listed as part of the auction in the description and not shown in the picture. Again, why didn't the buyer use the ask the seller feature at the bottom of the auction to be sure? After all, it is your hard earned money that you are spending? It would have taken only a minute or two to ask the question....

Wow, I see fault on both sides....

OmahaStar
12-18-10, 01:12 AM
Another thing ... How much time did you spend studying this auction? It appears that you placed your first bid less than two minutes before it ended. Ended at 16:32:01, your first bid was at 16:30:35, so about a minute and a half before it ended, then repeatedly bid every few seconds until you won.

So, you either used a sniping program - against eBay's rules, mind - or you decided at the literal last minute "Hey, I want this" and didn't bother to look for yourself to see whether it was what you wanted. You assumed.

It only ended on the 12th, and you already have it, so that's pretty amazing shipping speed on the part of the seller. It usually takes a lot longer for items of that size to reach me when I buy things from eBay.

Frankly, it looks to me like you didn't do your homework, you failed to ask questions, you didn't get what you assumed you'd get because of your own issues, and you're blaming the seller for your mistakes. The seller then offered a power cord, which should have been enough to end this. Instead, you decided that you had to share your own negligence with the world by posting on this forum (and who knows how many other places?). All you did was spotlight your own mistakes.

Next time, ask questions. If you don't get the response you think you should get, don't bid. It's really that simple. And since you have a feedback of 516, really, this shouldn't be new to you.

Neither should the "no sniping programs allowed" rule. Really, if the seller wanted to, he could probably report you to eBay and get you banned for that alone.

JZ1276
12-18-10, 02:12 AM
Another thing ... How much time did you spend studying this auction? It appears that you placed your first bid less than two minutes before it ended. Ended at 16:32:01, your first bid was at 16:30:35, so about a minute and a half before it ended, then repeatedly bid every few seconds until you won.

So, you either used a sniping program - against eBay's rules, mind - or you decided at the literal last minute "Hey, I want this" and didn't bother to look for yourself to see whether it was what you wanted. You assumed.

It only ended on the 12th, and you already have it, so that's pretty amazing shipping speed on the part of the seller. It usually takes a lot longer for items of that size to reach me when I buy things from eBay.

Frankly, it looks to me like you didn't do your homework, you failed to ask questions, you didn't get what you assumed you'd get because of your own issues, and you're blaming the seller for your mistakes. The seller then offered a power cord, which should have been enough to end this. Instead, you decided that you had to share your own negligence with the world by posting on this forum (and who knows how many other places?). All you did was spotlight your own mistakes.

Next time, ask questions. If you don't get the response you think you should get, don't bid. It's really that simple. And since you have a feedback of 516, really, this shouldn't be new to you.

Neither should the "no sniping programs allowed" rule. Really, if the seller wanted to, he could probably report you to eBay and get you banned for that alone.

A couple of things. First off, a "sniping" program?? LOL. I dont even know what that is. Secondly, ebay has a feature that lets you "watch" the item and sends you emails giving you updates on it so both your assumptions about deciding to buy it at the last minute and using a sniper program are incorrect. The reason I placed the bid 2 minutes before the auction ended is so that I did not drive the price up. If I bid hours or days before the item ends, then someone else bids, then i bid again, and so on, the price just keeps getting higher. You wait to bid right before the auction closes to keep the price low. Common sense. You ask why I didnt ask a question. I've sold hundreds and bought hundreds of items on ebay before and would NEVER think to NOT state if a remote or power cord werent included in an item I was selling. Same goes for items I've bought, the few times I've purchased electronics on ebay of course a power cord would be included as well as the remote.
Anyway thanks for your input. But this is NOT my mistake lol. IMO , this is like selling a puzzle and not including all the pieces.
Let me ask you a question. If you bought a refurbished piece of eletronic equipment at a store and did not receive a remote or power cord, would it be OK just because you didnt ask if it came with those things first?

JZ1276
12-18-10, 02:36 AM
If the above link is the correct auction in question, then here are my comments. For the record, I have never bought or sold anything on ebay and I do not own any stock in the company either. I am also NOT familiar with this particular item.

Where do I begin? There is so much to say...

I am not taking sides with either the buyer or seller. This is just a pair of fresh eyes looking at the situation.

The seller titles the auction as "TECHNICS SU-G91 Integrated Stereo Amplifier Receiver"

The item is mislabled. The picture clearly shows the item and the name in the upper left hand corner of the unit says: Technics Stereo Integrated Amplifier SU-G91. "

This item is an NOT a receiver. You can also tell this by looking at the picture. Also, you can Google it and all the descriptions about the SU-G91 says it is an amplifier only, not a receiver.

The item is used. The 2 pictures show only the amplifier itself. No accessories are shown or mentioned in the description. There is no reasonable basis that an owners manual, remote or power cord would be included in the price.

I noticed that at the bottom of the auction there is a place/procedure where a potential bidder could ask a question. Why didn't the buyer ask the seller if the remote, owners manual and power cord is part of the sale???? just to be sure.

A quick Google search (wow! Google is real handy) would have shown that a remote for the SU-G91 can be purchased for $85, the owners manual is $13 and the power cord is $10.

http://www.technics.newremotecontrol.com/catalog_item.php?catnum=RAK-SA902MH


Not sure how ebay would handle this sort of situation. The seller clearly mislabled the title of the auction, but a quick look at the item picture shows that the item is an amplifier and NOT a receiver. If there was any doubt, the buyer should have asked the seller a question in the space provided.

The provenance of the item is not mentioned. A quick look at the sellers other items indicate that the seller probably buys stuff for resale on ebay. He probably gets stuff from garage sales, lawn sales, dumpster diving, thrift shops etc. The buyer should have asked if the owners manual, power cord and remote are included. After all, the item is used and there is no mention of those items in the description or in the picture.

The buyer is now asking for a $30 credit. If the buyer wants to buy the accessories he feels should have come with the amplifier, it will cost him $108 plus shipping. (See link above).

Conclusion: The seller clearly mislabled the auction, but a quick look at the picture provided showed the item to be an amplifier only. The buyer could have done 2 minutes of due diligence on Google on the item to confirm this info. The buyer assumed that the remote, owners manual and power cord are included? Those items were not listed as part of the auction in the description and not shown in the picture. Again, why didn't the buyer use the ask the seller feature at the bottom of the auction to be sure? After all, it is your hard earned money that you are spending? It would have taken only a minute or two to ask the question....

Wow, I see fault on both sides....

Well, you say if there was any doubt that I shouldve asked the seller about the remote and power cord. Like I stated in my above post, there wasnt ANY doubt thats why I didnt ask! Youre also telling me to Google this item. Why? It states it is a receiver. Do you think the thought would cross my that "Hey, maybe this ISNT a receiver, I should probably Google it"?. No, of course not. You find it hard to believe that I didnt ask the seller if the remote and power cord were included (I never thought the manual would be though). My reason is simple. These things BELONG with the "receiver" and for them to NOT be included should be stated IMO.

JZ1276
12-18-10, 02:41 AM
Anyway, the seller did offer to give me a partial refund like I said of $30 which is just enough to purchase a Technics matching tuner. However, as a long time seller and buyer from ebay, mislabeling the item as a receiver when it is not is reason enough to return it alone. NOT stating that the remote and power cord isnt included in the description is obviously debatable, but IMO is also reason enough to return it.

OmahaStar
12-18-10, 03:04 AM
You're just digging yourself into an even deeper hole. What are you trying to gain? You've already proven what kind of ... how do I want to put this? ... less than brilliant ebayer you are. You don't care about facts, you don't bother to research, you just whine and complain. Sounds to me like you're trying to scam an honest seller. If it was me, and I was that seller, I think I'd keep a copy of this thread and include it in my report to eBay.

You're clearly in the wrong, and you're scamming the seller out of 30 bucks plus a power cord, and you're bragging about it. Your parents should be appalled.

JZ1276
12-18-10, 03:16 AM
You're just digging yourself into an even deeper hole. What are you trying to gain? You've already proven what kind of ... how do I want to put this? ... less than brilliant ebayer you are. You don't care about facts, you don't bother to research, you just whine and complain. Sounds to me like you're trying to scam an honest seller. If it was me, and I was that seller, I think I'd keep a copy of this thread and include it in my report to eBay.

You're clearly in the wrong, and you're scamming the seller out of 30 bucks plus a power cord, and you're bragging about it. Your parents should be appalled.

How can you call this guy an honest seller??? I'm "whining and complaining" because I AM AN HONEST seller and expect the same honesty from sellers when i buy an item that I use when I sell an item! Whats honest about mislabeling an item ??!! Whats honest about not saying "the remote and power cord arent included"? If he was an honest seller, he would have mentioned those things. Its obvious that he purposely did NOT mention those things because he would have gotten a lower price on the item than if he did. I'm bragging??? Is there something wrong with you? At what point in this thread did I brag about anything? My parents should be appalled? I'm 34 yrs old buddy. Either you are the seller or you have some serious issues.

Mr. Salty
12-18-10, 03:42 AM
NOT stating that the remote and power cord isnt included in the description is obviously debatable, but IMO is also reason enough to return it.
Sure, if you're wanting to cut off your nose to spite your face. You got a really nice receiver at a fair price. Too bad you can't be happy with it.

How can you call this guy an honest seller??? I'm "whining and complaining" because I AM AN HONEST seller and expect the same honesty from sellers when i buy an item that I use when I sell an item!
He honestly didn't say that the manual, remote or power cord were included. It's eBay. You get what's advertised.

JZ1276
12-18-10, 05:02 AM
Sure, if you're wanting to cut off your nose to spite your face. You got a really nice receiver at a fair price. Too bad you can't be happy with it.


He honestly didn't say that the manual, remote or power cord were included. It's eBay. You get what's advertised.

I'm happy enough with it which is why I didnt return it. I just came here for everyones opinion.
To go as far as to call it a really nice receiver is a bit steep. Everyone has already said it is NOT a receiver and it's Technics...at least 15 years old

JZ1276
12-18-10, 05:12 AM
I have to admit I'm honestly surprised that most of you are actually ragging on me over the situation. By what most of you are saying, it looks like this type of thing is tolerated on eBay so I am definitely changing my selling habits from now on.

Travis McClain
12-18-10, 05:54 AM
I meant to respond last night when I first saw this. Anyway, the chief point I meant to make is that sellers should list clearly what is and is not included in an auction and that buyers should always ask any relevant questions before placing a bid.

As a rule of thumb, if a seller has a manual for old electronics, he or she will emphasize that because it sends the message that the item has been in the hands of someone attentive. Note that the suggestion of being well cared for isn't a guarantee.

And the reason that several posters have become animated over this is that it's yet another microcosm of the things that have ruined eBay for us as buyers and as sellers. I'll give you this, though: at least you seem to be honest (if misguided) about your side of things.

Mr. Salty
12-18-10, 07:02 AM
To go as far as to call it a really nice receiver is a bit steep. Everyone has already said it is NOT a receiver and it's Technics...at least 15 years old
OK, I'll smooth out the steepness for you: You got a pretty nice although not state-of-the-art integrated amplifier at a fair price without, apparently, doing one iota of research on the item before bidding on it.

JZ1276
12-18-10, 08:49 AM
OK, I'll smooth out the steepness for you: You got a pretty nice although not state-of-the-art integrated amplifier at a fair price without, apparently, doing one iota of research on the item before bidding on it.

Didnt need to research anything. All that was important to me were the words "Technics" and "receiver". I was looking for an older receiver to start up a second system outside and I've owned Technics gear in the past and trust the name brand so I went for it. If you're talking about research as in asking the seller if the original accessories were included then I can state my opinion again... I would trust that the seller would say what would NOT be included in the description that SHOULD be included (such as obvious things like a power cord) as that's what I've always done when selling and that's how it's always been when buying in the past. In the future, if I do buy a similar item, I will ask.
It's almost like I can sell a used car with no keys, take a picture of the car, and then tell the buyer "you didnt ask if it came with the keys" after he bought it so that makes it OK.

Troy Stiffler
12-18-10, 09:01 AM
First, the guy doesn't look like he sells a lot. But he does look like a surplus/bankruptcy sales guy. Unless he's selling his personal unit, you can't expect him to be 100% accurate.

Second, this is why I don't really sell consumer electronics. It's a HUGE pain, for this exact reason.

Lastly, this is why I clearly state "includes all/only item(s) pictured" in all 6600 of my listings. Problem solved. :)

And sniping is not against eBay's rules. Their German site banned them. But it's not against eBay rules.

Travis McClain
12-18-10, 09:02 AM
It's almost like I can sell a used car with no keys, take a picture of the car, and then tell the buyer "you didnt ask if it came with the keys" after he bought it so that makes it OK.

Depends on the venue for the sale. If you're buying off a lot, then yes you should expect keys. If you're buying from a private seller who makes no mention of keys then it's your responsibility to ask before entering the transaction. Your seller may be of the mind that you can work that out with a locksmith later. If you're going to be buying things, you have to think of these things.

There's a reason packages have to tell you whether batteries are required and/or included: because once upon a time, people bought electronics and pitched a fit that they "didn't know" they had to buy batteries in order to operate said electronics. You can expect items sold as new to include such clarifications, but on the secondary market there are no such obligations.

DirkUSA
12-18-10, 09:06 AM
I believe I've found the auction here (http://cgi.ebay.com/TECHNICS-SU-G91-Integrated-Stereo-Amplifier-Receiver-/220707151009?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item33632bdca1).

At first, I would have agreed with ben12 about it not being included unless it specifically says it, but the seller does state this:



If there is no power cord, it cannot possibly work properly. That, at a minimum, should have been included and (in my opinion) you have a right to have that included. Obviously, the seller has a power cord, because he claims it works properly and therefore must have tested it.

The manual, however, I don't agree with. Nowhere does it say the manual would be included, and you cannot possibly expect it to be on something that is 17 years old.

And the same thing with the remote. It is "old school" as you mentioned, and sometimes you just have to walk across the room and change the channel on something that is "old school." Most universal remotes would easily be able to handle something like this.

To sum it up .... Yes to the power cord, no to the rest, unless it says it's included in the auction.


I totally agree with the above.

JZ1276
12-18-10, 09:53 AM
First, the guy doesn't look like he sells a lot. But he does look like a surplus/bankruptcy sales guy. Unless he's selling his personal unit, you can't expect him to be 100% accurate.

Second, this is why I don't really sell consumer electronics. It's a HUGE pain, for this exact reason.

Lastly, this is why I clearly state "includes all/only item(s) pictured" in all 6600 of my listings. Problem solved. :)

And sniping is not against eBay's rules. Their German site banned them. But it's not against eBay rules.

He states on the auction page that he's been selling for 15 yrs or something like that so he knows what he's doing. He also has a ton of feedback.


Depends on the venue for the sale. If you're buying off a lot, then yes you should expect keys. If you're buying from a private seller who makes no mention of keys then it's your responsibility to ask before entering the transaction. Your seller may be of the mind that you can work that out with a locksmith later. If you're going to be buying things, you have to think of these things.

There's a reason packages have to tell you whether batteries are required and/or included: because once upon a time, people bought electronics and pitched a fit that they "didn't know" they had to buy batteries in order to operate said electronics. You can expect items sold as new to include such clarifications, but on the secondary market there are no such obligations.
Well, obviously I am talking about eBay as the venue for the sale. You really cannot compare batteries to a remote control. With alot of electronic components, you NEED the remote to use most of the functions that arent on the component itself.

Travis McClain
12-18-10, 10:12 AM
Well, obviously I am talking about eBay as the venue for the sale. You really cannot compare batteries to a remote control. With alot of electronic components, you NEED the remote to use most of the functions that arent on the component itself.

Did anyone pay attention in language arts class? You can, in fact, compare any two subjects. We can draw a comparison between your purchase and Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman costume if we're so inclined. And to demonstrate how willfully blind you were to my initial observation: good luck operating ANY function of something that requires batteries without them.

The Man with the Golden Doujinshi
12-18-10, 12:42 PM
He states on the auction page that he's been selling for 15 yrs or something like that so he knows what he's doing. He also has a ton of feedback.

Which means you need to practice up on buying since he knows how to sell. I've sold used items in the past and listed what was included with it. I'm not going to list what's not included because if I forget one thing that's normally included, I've opened myself up to a dispute. This is especially true if it's an old piece of equipment that I never bought new and/or don't have an item list.

You are the reason ads have to say, "toy does not actually fly", or "attractive model not included".

For me, common sense says that when you look at an item and it says what's included, that means that's all that's included. The only time I ever see an item for sale listing something being missing is at a store because the box lists what's available. Those are the times I can understand listing everything that could possibly not come with it. When there's no listing of what's included, they then put a note on with what's inside.

To make a long story short, read the description of what you're going to buy and don't assume anything.

kd5
12-18-10, 05:46 PM
Seller was in the wrong for listing the item incorrectly, but buyer was in the wrong for not doing his/her homework prior to bidding. All buyer had to do was Google the model# to find information on it, or even look at the pictures provided in the auction (fer cryin' out loud). Before bidding on this item, I would've researched it first, asked questions, found out what, if anything, was included (buyer had a right to assume the power cord was included), looked at the seller's feedback rating (98.9% is NOT a good feedback rating at Ebay). Sure the seller misrepresented the item but the buyer failed in every way imaginable to research this before bidding.

This whole auction was an EPIC FAIL. -kd5-

DeepSleep
12-18-10, 06:30 PM
looked at the seller's feedback rating (98.9% is NOT a good feedback rating at Ebay).

This whole auction was an EPIC FAIL. -kd5-

If the seller's feedback rating of 98.9% is not good, then the buyer's feedback rating of 96% is even worse!

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=220707151009&aid=z***6&eu=HIH9NpOow5N0nO5jfRQE1GPmkC1RTxlr&view=NONE&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_None_ViewLink

kd5
12-18-10, 06:44 PM
If the seller's feedback rating of 98.9% is not good, then the buyer's feedback rating of 96% is even worse!

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=220707151009&aid=z***6&eu=HIH9NpOow5N0nO5jfRQE1GPmkC1RTxlr&view=NONE&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_None_ViewLink

I never buy anything from anyone on Ebay with less than about a 99.7% positive feedback rating (and I examine the negatives VERY closely). Anything less than that is asking for trouble. -kd5-

JZ1276
12-18-10, 11:26 PM
You are the reason ads have to say, "toy does not actually fly", or "attractive model not included".



Now that's a little ridiculous. I'm not dragging this out anymore because it is getting pointless. Bottom line is this... when I sell (whether it is on e bay or Amazon) I will list anything not included that originally came with the item. It is called honesty, and it is to avoid situations like this one. I expect the same courtesy in return when buying. Granted, I should of specifically asked if the remote, manual, and power cord were included and I'm stupid for not. Even still, it's dishonest to not mention it. The seller is also at fault for calling the item a receiver when most of you clearly said it is not.
Thanks for all of your input on this.

OmahaStar
12-19-10, 01:06 AM
I'm stupid

At least you're finally realizing what everyone reading this thread is thinking. But admitting it is your first step. I encourage you to keep us posted on your progress towards becoming more educated and less "stupid." :)

JZ1276
12-19-10, 02:31 AM
At least you're finally realizing what everyone reading this thread is thinking. But admitting it is your first step. I encourage you to keep us posted on your progress towards becoming more educated and less "stupid." :)

You're a moron. Do you realize backing up his selling methods and being tolerant of them is the reason ebay is the way it is?
And I'm not "finally" realizing. I realized it as soon as I opened the package and didnt see the remote or power cord. Again, just because I didnt ask does not mean I'm in the wrong.
Anyway, enjoy your ignorance smart ass.

Mr. Salty
12-19-10, 02:59 AM
Do you realize backing up his selling methods and being tolerant of them is the reason ebay is the way it is?
Do you realize there is a possibility that you're the one who is wrong?

The fact is, other than audio enthusiasts most people don't know the difference between receivers and integrated amplifiers. The seller, like a lot of sellers on eBay, probably isn't an A/V expert. Chalk it up to an innocent mistake rather than a devious attempt to mislead you.

As far as the cord and remote go, $10 and a trip to Radio Shack should solve both problems. The power cord is a standard design for A/V components.

Travis McClain
12-19-10, 05:25 PM
Do you realize there is a possibility that you're the one who is wrong?

The fact is, other than audio enthusiasts most people don't know the difference between receivers and integrated amplifiers. The seller, like a lot of sellers on eBay, probably isn't an A/V expert. Chalk it up to an innocent mistake rather than a devious attempt to mislead you.

I maintain that the buyer was wrong because he had an entire seven days to discover this auction and ask any questions he wished. Coming in at the last minute like he did eliminated that opportunity.

That said, if the seller was in fact unfamiliar with the item he was selling, then he should have claimed that in his description. From time to time I've sold things that I didn't really know all that well and was frankly too lazy to research. My listings included a disclaimer such as, "I am unfamiliar with [say, the world of Harry Potter, so you probably know more about this listing than I do. Still, I will be happy to answer any questions you might have to the best of my ability." Had the seller done something so simple, he might have had a stronger claim on "an innocent mistake." (Though, in this case, it appears at face value that's what happened.)

As far as the cord and remote go, $10 and a trip to Radio Shack should solve both problems. The power cord is a standard design for A/V components.

I suspect this is what the seller had to do, and why he didn't include a power cord. The original is long gone; he may not have even been the original owner. Had he provided a replacement cord, he'd have likely added that $10 to the minimum bid to compensate himself for buying a new cord. In his mind, he saved you $10 because you might have had your own replacement cord lying around in a bin somewhere.

This is, of course, mere speculation on my part. Maybe the guy has a power cord fetish and knew the moment he decided to sell you the unit that you weren't getting the cord. My point is, all anyone has to go on regarding an eBay auction is the face value of the listing, any correspondence between buyer and seller, and in this case, we're relying entirely on your account of events to know whatever we know. If there's room enough in what you've told us for this much disagreement, then surely you can see how it is that you and the seller weren't in agreement about the transaction?

JZ1276
12-19-10, 06:05 PM
Do you realize there is a possibility that you're the one who is wrong?

The fact is, other than audio enthusiasts most people don't know the difference between receivers and integrated amplifiers. The seller, like a lot of sellers on eBay, probably isn't an A/V expert. Chalk it up to an innocent mistake rather than a devious attempt to mislead you.

As far as the cord and remote go, $10 and a trip to Radio Shack should solve both problems. The power cord is a standard design for A/V components.

Sure I've thought theres a possibility I'm wrong. I'm sure the seller didnt purposely call it a receiver knowing it technically isnt. I'm also sure he purposely left out the remote and power cord not being included in the description to get higher bids. Thats called dishonesty so to me I am not wrong.



I maintain that the buyer was wrong because he had an entire seven days to discover this auction and ask any questions he wished. Coming in at the last minute like he did eliminated that opportunity.

That said, if the seller was in fact unfamiliar with the item he was selling, then he should have claimed that in his description. From time to time I've sold things that I didn't really know all that well and was frankly too lazy to research. My listings included a disclaimer such as, "I am unfamiliar with [say, the world of Harry Potter, so you probably know more about this listing than I do. Still, I will be happy to answer any questions you might have to the best of my ability." Had the seller done something so simple, he might have had a stronger claim on "an innocent mistake." (Though, in this case, it appears at face value that's what happened.)
I suspect this is what the seller had to do, and why he didn't include a power cord. The original is long gone; he may not have even been the original owner. Had he provided a replacement cord, he'd have likely added that $10 to the minimum bid to compensate himself for buying a new cord. In his mind, he saved you $10 because you might have had your own replacement cord lying around in a bin somewhere.

This is, of course, mere speculation on my part. Maybe the guy has a power cord fetish and knew the moment he decided to sell you the unit that you weren't getting the cord. My point is, all anyone has to go on regarding an eBay auction is the face value of the listing, any correspondence between buyer and seller, and in this case, we're relying entirely on your account of events to know whatever we know. If there's room enough in what you've told us for this much disagreement, then surely you can see how it is that you and the seller weren't in agreement about the transaction?

Once again, I didnt jump in last minute and discover the auction right before it ended. I had it on my watch list. I do believe the seller made an innocent mistake in mislabeling the listing. Purposely not saying the remote and power cord werent included is not an honest mistake though.
You guys are much more tolerant of this "dont ask dont tell" way of selling. To me it's just a dishonest and sneaky way of getting higher bids.

Travis McClain
12-19-10, 06:09 PM
Once again, I didnt jump in last minute and discover the auction right before it ended. I had it on my watch list. I do believe the seller made an innocent mistake in mislabeling the listing. Purposely not saying the remote and power cord werent included is not an honest mistake though.

You come off better in this if you go with "I came to it last minute." Otherwise, you have absolutely no excuse for not asking the seller, "What specifically is included?"

pilot
12-19-10, 07:53 PM
I think this thread has a taken a turn downhill.. I think the OP clearly got the answer he wanted ...and then some...