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View Full Version : Microsoft Cancels Courier


sracer
04-29-10, 03:41 PM
Looks like Microsoft's FUD attempt has run its course and it is now time to put it to bed....

http://gizmodo.com/5527442/microsoft-cancels-innovative-courier-tablet-project

Ted Todorov
04-29-10, 03:56 PM
Looks like the iPad has the tablet market all to itself for 2010.

No way will HP finish digesting Palm/WebOS before 2011, and until then you'll just have totally not-ready-for-prime-time stuff like the JooJoo and the can't-remember-it's name by Nokia, the dual OS monstrosity from Lenovo -- etc. You have to be in an alternate universe to believe any of them will be competitive vs. the iPad.

Raul3
04-29-10, 04:20 PM
It was expected, specially after Windows Mobile 7 (or whatever is called) was shown and received good reviews in general. If they ever go that route again they should just follow Apple and HP (and Google?) and release a tablet with a mobile OS.

Supermallet
04-29-10, 04:24 PM
I can wait around to see what a WebOS tablet looks like before buying any tablet device.

sracer
04-29-10, 04:39 PM
I can wait around to see what a WebOS tablet looks like before buying any tablet device.
WebOS-based and Android-based tablet devices are welcomed additions to the fray... because they are going to be actual products. Electronic unicorns (like the Courier and to the lesser extent, the HP Slate) are little more than distractions.

X
04-29-10, 04:41 PM
Oh, I thought they were cancelling the Courier font!

Trevor
04-29-10, 04:48 PM
Oh, I thought they were cancelling the Courier font!

I thought he had a shipment from Microsoft cancelled.

GreenMonkey
04-29-10, 05:39 PM
Too bad. This looked like a cool gadget. I was hoping they'd keep working on it for a few years.


No way will HP finish digesting Palm/WebOS before 2011, and until then you'll just have totally not-ready-for-prime-time stuff like the JooJoo and the can't-remember-it's name by Nokia, the dual OS monstrosity from Lenovo -- etc. You have to be in an alternate universe to believe any of them will be competitive vs. the iPad.

I don't give a damn if any of them is "competitive vs. the iPad" or popular or whatever. My Sansa mp3 player with Rockbox wasn't "competitive", but hell, it was a pretty cool gadget. Before that I also had a tank-like Creative Zen Xtra with a 30GB drive to play mp3s that was awesome My HP TM2 is derided by the iPad people here but it's a great little convertible laptop.

I'm still in the market for a lightweight larger e-reader, perhaps, if it is cheap enough, or a 5 to 7 inch Android / WebOS / whatever tablet. Something bigger than the jailbroken ipod touch and smaller than my touchsmart laptop.

Ted Todorov
04-29-10, 07:22 PM
I don't give a damn if any of them is "competitive vs. the iPad" or popular or whatever. My Sansa mp3 player with Rockbox wasn't "competitive", but hell, it was a pretty cool gadget. ...
The difference is that your MP3 player is fully functional without third party software. A tablet would be crippled without third party software, and little of it will be written for unpopular tablets. Yes, there is plenty of Android programs out, but running them on an Android tablet will be at best like running iPhone software on the iPad -- a bad experience.

A tablet platform has to be popular enough to attract a large number of developers. My point is -- I don't see any way such a platform can emerge before 2011 at the earliest. And yes, I want it to emerge, because competition is good for everyone.

Ted Todorov
04-29-10, 07:27 PM
I have one more thought on Microsoft's Courier cancelation -- in may be a direct reaction to HP's WebOS purchase. Microsoft may be starting to panic that no one is going to make Windows 7 tablets, and don't want to send a mixed message about their tablet OS.

They don't want their "partners" thinking that going with Win7 will end up like going with Plays for Sure, only to be zuned by the Courier. Thus, the Courier's unceremonious execution.

al_bundy
04-29-10, 08:46 PM
computer industry is going vertical and MS seems to be between a rock and a hard place. they need Dell and HP for the Windows Server business so they dare not make a consumer PC which will also anger Apple

i actually prefer WIndows to OS X, but the ownership experience of an Apple computer is much better than Dell or HP. no crapware, good support if you need it. no need to put up with worst buy and geek squad. over the last 15 years or so i've watched Dell screw up the buying experience in the name of saving money

kms_md
04-29-10, 10:26 PM
Electronic unicorns (like the Courier and to the lesser extent, the HP Slate) are little more than distractions.

qft. courier was nothing more than an attempt to distract the potential market waiting for the release of the ipad.

fumanstan
04-29-10, 10:33 PM
That sucks, the concepts looked far more interesting and useful to me then the iPad.

Ted Todorov
04-30-10, 07:24 AM
That sucks, the concepts looked far more interesting and useful to me then the iPad.
You mean fictional marketing video, not concept. You never saw the concept itself which may or may not have been useful.

If you want a video, one that completely blows away anything the the Courier's videos promised, try this one from Apple for the Knowledge Navigator in 1987(!!!!!):
Knowledge Navigator video -- must watch. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mLqJNDWx-8)
That's what inspired Siri, the company Apple just purchased, so yes, expect that sort of tech to filter down to the iPad eventually.
Long but fascinating talk about Siri's capabilities. (http://vimeo.com/5424527)

But, bottom line videos are videos -- nothing more -- even if some prove more consequential than others. Meanwhile the iPad is a real product.

If the Courier's demise or "demise" teaches us anything, is that in the future we should only compare the iPad to shipping products, rather than "concepts", "previews", "leaks" or "sneak peaks" -- collectively: marketing -- reality is invariably different.

RichC2
04-30-10, 07:50 AM
Bummer, the ideas around the Courier made it out to be the only Slate-style system that would actually be suitably productive.


So of course it was too good to be true.

Raul3
04-30-10, 08:34 AM
We can always have a WePad:

hyyfL8f0bhA

fumanstan
04-30-10, 09:07 AM
You mean fictional marketing video, not concept. You never saw the concept itself which may or may not have been useful.

If you want a video, one that completely blows away anything the the Courier's videos promised, try this one from Apple for the Knowledge Navigator in 1987(!!!!!):
Knowledge Navigator video -- must watch. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mLqJNDWx-8)
That's what inspired Siri, the company Apple just purchased, so yes, expect that sort of tech to filter down to the iPad eventually.
Long but fascinating talk about Siri's capabilities. (http://vimeo.com/5424527)

But, bottom line videos are videos -- nothing more -- even if some prove more consequential than others. Meanwhile the iPad is a real product.

If the Courier's demise or "demise" teaches us anything, is that in the future we should only compare the iPad to shipping products, rather than "concepts", "previews", "leaks" or "sneak peaks" -- collectively: marketing -- reality is invariably different.

No, I meant concept. Unless you're unclear what the definition of concept is or is somehow different from mine.

The iPad is a real product, but does nothing useful for me so I don't really care that it's a real product in comparison.

GreenMonkey
04-30-10, 09:09 AM
The difference is that your MP3 player is fully functional without third party software. A tablet would be crippled without third party software, and little of it will be written for unpopular tablets. Yes, there is plenty of Android programs out, but running them on an Android tablet will be at best like running iPhone software on the iPad -- a bad experience.

A tablet platform has to be popular enough to attract a large number of developers. My point is -- I don't see any way such a platform can emerge before 2011 at the earliest. And yes, I want it to emerge, because competition is good for everyone.

No, you don't. Ubuntu and other Linux flavors have tons of well-developed programs. Windows 7 will run fine on a tablet with an SSD in it and of course has programs galore. Android has plenty of apps already. Etc.

Ted Todorov
04-30-10, 10:29 AM
No, you don't. Ubuntu and other Linux flavors have tons of well-developed programs. Windows 7 will run fine on a tablet with an SSD in it and of course has programs galore. Android has plenty of apps already. Etc.
These Ubuntu and other Linux apps were not designed for touch tablets -- they would be useless.

HP obviously felt that Windows 7 does not run fine on a tablet, thus its decision to kill the Windows 7 HP Slate and acquire WebOS. See this TechCrunch article saying that HP has killed the Windows Slate. (http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/29/hewlett-packard-to-kill-windows-7-tablet-project/)

And I already covered the existing Android apps: "there are plenty of Android programs out, but running them on an Android tablet will be at best like running iPhone software on the iPad -- a bad experience." These programs were designed for small phones, not tablets.

Ted Todorov
04-30-10, 10:38 AM
No, I meant concept. Unless you're unclear what the definition of concept is or is somehow different from mine.

The iPad is a real product, but does nothing useful for me so I don't really care that it's a real product in comparison.
I think we both understand the same thing by concept, but what I meant was that the Courier wasn't even a concept like a concept car -- no working Courier did or could exist.

But as purely imaginative concept, let me ask you this: Why do you find the Courier concept attractive rather than say the Apple Knowledge Navigator? I'd posit that isn't because the Courier is a better concept, it is because you believed the Courier to be real.

I am saying that the Courier and similar concepts are not real. You can either compare shipping products to other shipping products, or concepts to other concepts. You can't compare fiction to reality and say reality is useless because you prefer the fiction.

sracer
04-30-10, 10:47 AM
Windows 7 will run fine on a tablet with an SSD in it and of course has programs galore.
You are free to continue to believe that. My experiences with Win7 on tablets is far from "fine".

fumanstan
04-30-10, 11:53 AM
I think we both understand the same thing by concept, but what I meant was that the Courier wasn't even a concept like a concept car -- no working Courier did or could exist.

But as purely imaginative concept, let me ask you this: Why do you find the Courier concept attractive rather than say the Apple Knowledge Navigator? I'd posit that isn't because the Courier is a better concept, it is because you believed the Courier to be real.

I am saying that the Courier and similar concepts are not real. You can either compare shipping products to other shipping products, or concepts to other concepts. You can't compare fiction to reality and say reality is useless because you prefer the fiction.

I'm not comparing the Courier to the Apple Knowledge Navigator, so your qualifier doesn't make sense. All I commented on is that the concepts I saw for the Courier looked interesting, more so to me then what the iPad currently offers. That's all. Has nothing to do with whatever ideas other companies were working on prior, this is just solely about the Courier.

I can compare whatever I want based on what my needs are and what I see. I don't see a problem with deciding an iPad doesn't fit my needs and commenting that some other mockups would be cooler.

Geofferson
04-30-10, 11:56 AM
That sucks, the concepts looked far more interesting and useful to me then the iPad.
Agreed -- was looking forward to this.

GreenMonkey
04-30-10, 12:33 PM
The Apple FUD here is amazing. Ubuntu and Linux are useless on a tablet?

You are free to continue to believe that. My experiences with Win7 on tablets is far from "fine".

Oh, Windows 7 won't work on a tablet either?

I guess I was hallucinating the other day when I spent an hour surfing on my convertible tablet. Or when I uploaded photos from my SD card slot to Facebook. Or when I walked across campus viewing powerpoint presenatations before my exam. Or watching Hulu on it via the HP touchsmart Hulu app. It must have been all in my imagination.

I know you Apple people think nothing but an Apple-style OS built from the ground up will work on a tablet, but you're wrong.

I owned an n800 tablet 2 years ago (running the Maemo flavor of Linux) which used a stylus, and it was a very cool gadget. The n900 is very popular right now (it's a phone), it also uses Maemo.

And has anyone tried Ubuntu Netbook Remix? I have - on an Acer Aspire One netbook. I loved it for daily use on a trip. I'm sure with a little tweaking, UNR would run great on a tablet.

Ted Todorov
04-30-10, 12:53 PM
The Apple FUD here is amazing. Ubuntu and Linux are useless on a tablet?
You are being deliberately obtuse. Android and practically every other possible tablet OS except Windows and OS X (BSD Unix) is some flavor of Linux. The point isn't that you can't have a good Linux based tablet OS, the point is that the currently existing Ubuntu et al. applications are not written for a touch screen tablet.

That doesn't mean that there can't or won't be tons of great Linux tablet apps.
It's just that they don't exist right now. My guess is that a critical mass of Android tablet will arrive in late 2011 or early 2012.

sracer
04-30-10, 01:15 PM
Oh, Windows 7 won't work on a tablet either?

I guess I was hallucinating the other day when I spent an hour surfing on my convertible tablet. Or when I uploaded photos from my SD card slot to Facebook. Or when I walked across campus viewing powerpoint presenatations before my exam. Or watching Hulu on it via the HP touchsmart Hulu app. It must have been all in my imagination.
Since you have difficultly differentiating between a "not fine" comment with "won't work at all", having it been all in your imagination seems like a likely possibility.

GreenMonkey
04-30-10, 01:31 PM
You are being deliberately obtuse. Android and practically every other possible tablet OS except Windows and OS X (BSD Unix) is some flavor of Linux. The point isn't that you can't have a good Linux based tablet OS, the point is that the currently existing Ubuntu et al. applications are not written for a touch screen tablet.

That doesn't mean that there can't or won't be tons of great Linux tablet apps.
It's just that they don't exist right now. My guess is that a critical mass of Android tablet will arrive in late 2011 or early 2012.

All you need is a bigger DPI and a good onscreen keyboard. Nothing needs a total re-write. That's exactly my point about the Apple mentality.

A finger is just a very inaccurate mouse. For non-Windows skinned apps that are not so touch friendly apps (Steam comes to mind, I tried to login briefly to see if a buddy was online), the stylus fills in.

And as far as some more touch-friendly apps on Windows? Well, HP has Hulu, Netflix, a photo app, a recipe app, and a bunch of stuff like that already thanks to their Touchsmart applications.

Since you have difficultly differentiating between a "not fine" comment with "won't work at all", having it been all in your imagination seems like a likely possibility.

Apparently it was. You said "far from fine". I thought I managed it fine. So was I imagining it was fine?

I can't vouch for smaller devices. But win7 on a 12.1" capacitive, mulitouch screen, with a stylus? Works fine. More touchsmart style apps would be nice (certainly helps with usability via fingers) but it's serviceable without.

al_bundy
04-30-10, 01:37 PM
the Slate vs iPad was that the Slate was slower than the iPad because the iphone OS has less overhead than traditional desktop OS's like OS X or Windows. and since it won't be a real product there was no way to know how good it was going to be or how much of a stripped down OS it was going to have.

Windows 7 is a 20GB or so installation just for the OS. iPhone OS is around 400MB - 500MB. it's nice to be able to run apps on a tablet, but a lot of people wouldn't like the fact that their 32GB SSD in a Slate only has 10GB or so usable space out of the box

Ted Todorov
04-30-10, 02:43 PM
A finger is just a very inaccurate mouse.
I think this statement demonstrates that we have no possible basis of understanding on the topic at hand, although I'm wondering if you have a one, two or three button finger, and does your finger have a scroll wheel? :sarcasm:

So long as people working for Microsoft and other Apple competitors believe stuff like: "For non-Windows skinned apps that are not so touch friendly apps, the stylus fills in." The iPad will have no competition whatsoever. Which isn't good for anyone...

GreenMonkey
04-30-10, 10:12 PM
I think this statement demonstrates that we have no possible basis of understanding on the topic at hand, although I'm wondering if you have a one, two or three button finger, and does your finger have a scroll wheel? :sarcasm:

So long as people working for Microsoft and other Apple competitors believe stuff like: "For non-Windows skinned apps that are not so touch friendly apps, the stylus fills in." The iPad will have no competition whatsoever. Which isn't good for anyone...

It works the same way it does on my ipod touch. The scroll wheel is a up/down/left/right flick motion (all built into windows), the right click is a hold-down motion, and the TM2 has 4-point multitouch right now...last count I had..yes...plenty of fingers.

From the folks that don't want an iPad, there's tons of people that would like a stylus (plenty of students, artists, etc). If you're in Job's camp that if you have to use a stylus it's a failure, then, whatever. I'm not buying any large tablet without one, period.

It is to very cool take class notes in Windows Journal with one :D Too bad I don't have calc classes any more, it would have been cool for calc notes.

GreenMonkey
04-30-10, 10:12 PM
dbl post