solott55

Multi-billion dollar earning MISFIRE?

I think anyone that would define a movie as successful as Avatar as a "misfire" has very little understanding of the nature of art. Take paintings for example. Some are great because they present a vivid, realistic representation of a/the world; some are great because they invoke an emotional response; some are great because they do a good job expressing an abstract idea, etc. Rarely, if ever, does a work of art do all of these things. Do you look at a moving painting like Picasso's "Guernica" and say it was a misfire because the subjects don't look realistic? Or the "Mona Lisa" because it doesn't have enough action? Both of these works have captured the hearts and minds of millions of people for whatever reason, and apparently Avatar has done the same.

I wasn't blown away with Avatar's plot or writing either (and the reviewers criticism is totally valid in that regard), but I can still recognize it as a masterpiece of sorts (if nothing else than for the fact that it brought so many people out to the movies), and anyone that can't is simply expecting too much from their art.

Dane

Sadly, many CANNOT play the BD due to the extra copyright restrictions. Tons of people have returned their BD because of this as they donīt know how to update their firmware on their player.

Trevor

I'm wondering why he gave it a 'recommended' rating, didn't seem to jive with the conclusion.

Personally, I think the movie stunk and deserves a 'skip it', but even if you liked the movie (shame on you) this particular release should probably be a 'rent it', given the forthcoming double dip(s).

Adam Tyner

The box office tally says I'm not in the majority, but I agree with every last word Brian wrote.

Brian also absolutely gave credit where credit's due as well: the dazzling visual spectacle and the quantum leap forward in character animation. I think you might be getting too hung up on a single word in his review. I feel that Brian expressed his points very well, made it a point to highlight Avatar's strengths rather than just rail into its shortcomings, and wasn't the least bit dismissive of the film's admirers. If a film didn't connect with me on any sort of emotional level (and speaking only for myself, Avatar didn't), I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, no matter how colossal its box office receipts happened to be. I'd be hesitant to use the word 'masterpiece' to describe anything just a couple of months out of theaters anyway. Brian's review is very respectful (more than I would've been if Avatar had been dropped in the mail to me), and I think with the thought and consideration that clearly went into what he wrote that he earned the right to call the movie a misfire.

I agree. I get the sense that that Brian was approaching the recommendation more from a potential reader's perspective rather than his own.

The O

A tough call, as it always is (ratings are a sensitive subject in DVD Talk land). It's hard to ignore that the disc is mightily impressive.

Josh Z

Box office revenue is not and has never been a measure of artistic merit. If it were, I suppose that Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen would be last year's 2nd greatest masterpiece.

Boba Fett

Word. I tackled the DVD review and even though I'm not a fan of the film, am thinking of snagging the Blu-Ray for the technical quality alone.

Easy

Honestly, I look at dvdtalk reviews for audio and video quality. I look to rotten tomatoes for artistic merit. Why? Because there I can quickly get a consensus of top critics and they were overwhelmingly positive in this case. Personally, I would never make a buying decision on the recommendation of just one reviewer. Oh yeah, I loved the movie. It was one hell of a ride.

Anubis2005X

I saw it a couple times opening week and absolutely loved it. Glad I was able to see it before it got too hyped and all the backlash started.

solott55

I certainly don't disagree with you entirely, but this is one of the rare instances when box office revenue does have an impact on artistic merit - something about this movie caused a record-shattering number of box office sales - that sets it quite apart from the standard popcorn blockbuster (e.g. Transformers), and in my opinion any work of art that creates that kind of unprecedented mass response is a masterpiece (of sorts) by default.

Trevor

Or the mass response is just part of humanity becoming more embracing of mediocrity. I point to this films popularity and the elections of Bush and Obama as proofs.

Adam Tyner

I know you're not picking one party over the other here, but don't turn this into a political thread. There's a whole forum for that.

Hiro11

I get what the reviewer's saying, but I don't think I agree with the conclusion.

Avatar's a very interesting case. I have mixed feelings about it.

The movie certainly has significant faults. The characters are caricatures. The acting is either comically hammy (the over-the-top Lang, the ridiculously stereotypical Ribisi, the "tough Army girl" role that Rodriguez always plays etc) or "on-screen black hole" (Worthington). Every single plot point is completely obvious and is telegraphed hours before it actually happens. Avatar is also filled with more lefty/PC Hollywood political memes than you can shake a stick at (the "noble savages" who are really the civilized ones, the Army being a bunch of murderous mercenaries, corporations=evil, "being one with the earth" etc). All of this has been done before and done better. This is a bog-standard big Hollywood action movie script.

Despite all of that, you can't really deny that this movie deserves to be seen. It goes without saying that the visuals are groundbreaking, but they really are amazing. The direction of the action and adventure sequences is also world class. I also disagree that this is a "leaden" movie. It's 2 hours 40 minutes long, but I never thought the pace flagged. I think it's a 3.5 star movie but a 5 star representation of classic Hollywood movie making. Compare how much this movie gets right to how much lesser films like the Star Wars prequels get wrong. Say what you want about Avatar's obvious tropes, but sometimes obvious tropes are all you really need.

One note: Sam Worthington has the worst fake American accent I've ever heard.

The O

Worse than Gerard Butler?

Trevor

Nice summary of Avatar's faults. Where we significantly differ is in how important those story elements are to a film.

To me, story is at least 95% of the equation, and those significant faults bring the film down to a complete zero out of five. The nice visuals bring it up a bit. But imagine the most incredible looking meal you've ever seen. No matter how good it looks, if it's made of dog shit the meal is going to suck.

Draven

In my opinion more expensive tickets, easy-to-please storytelling, and people being too blinded by "diorama-vision" to see how weak everything else was are the reasons the movie was successful. It doesn't nothing "masterful" besides throwing a lot of money at talented CGI artists.

I said in the reviews thread that I can understand something like Titanic or The Dark Knight doing well at the box-office because you've more of the components that make a great movie...even if you personally didn't like them. Acting, writing, pacing, etc....are all better than Avatar.

The success of Avatar is exactly like the success of Revenge of the Fallen - the only thing either movie has going for it is the visuals. Otherwise they are a mess, but the masses eat that up.

Timo

Yep, you're damn right!

94 % positive reviews by top critics (RT) are almost the same as 16 % ...

And $35 Mio. domestic box office on the 6th weekend are close to $5 Mio.

Draven

I saw both movies and I stand by what I said. Both are poor films...and here's the kicker...IN MY OPINION.

Redjack

In my opinion the reviewer and naysayers are full of crap. I went and saw Avatar in the theater and bought the dvd/blu-ray combo pack, and while the lack of 3D in the blu ray version lessens the impact a bit i still thoroughly enjoyed the film.

I pay little to no attention to what any reviewer says of any film or book for the most part, because I, unlike them are there to be entertained. Not pick at every little thing they think wrong of the film/book in question. Maybe the writing was not Pulitzer Prize level, but then again Its an action film its meant to be enjoyed on a visceral level. Action/sci-fi films are about suspension of belief.

Let me restate, I enjoyed the film and will continue to do so regardless of what anyone else says. If you did not like the film for what ever reason, fine. That is your opinion, and we can agree to disagree. The whole purpose of going to a movie for most people is for enjoyment, not to pick at faults of same.

Nick Martin

followed by

Tell that to Trevor.

I don't read reviews for what critics think either, and I certainly don't let them influence whether or not I'll see/hear/read something. If I did I wouldn't like half the things I like. As for box office and critic-proof movies and all that, I have never had any desire to sit through 5 minutes of Transformers or any other Michael Bay movie that didn't star Will Smith and Martin Lawrence.

I read reviews of discs for the A/V quality assessments and the extras (if there are any) breakdown.

So the critical view of the film goes over my head out of a lack of interest - all reviews, not just this one. If the reviewer happens to like something I do (such as Adam Tyner's ANGEL season set reviews) then I'll see where his likes differ from mine and where they line up, but never has a review been a dealmaker or breaker.

However, a forum like this allows people to compare/contrast their views with a reviewer, and usually have a dialog with them. That's a good thing. Good conversation, rather than some cheap little reader comments list at the bottom of the page.

Trevor

Relax. It was an obvious joke.

Fwiw I've mentioned elsewhere that I'm fine with people loving Avatar. Just expressing my opinion.

Larry C.

I don't know that it stunk but, I just watched Avatar for the first time and I was a bit let down. I know I should have sen it in theaters big screen and 3D.

But 3D does not make a movie great. As a matter of fact I was quite bored through the film. The look is beautiful and the effects are great but the story did nothing for me. It was just like good old James wanted to put a clinic on CGI and thats it. You don't get any character development or plot here.

Nick Martin

I once said to someone that I had no interest in seeing Transformers and he got all offended like I had stepped on his cat's tail or something, and I made it clear to him that I had nothing against him or anyone else liking it, just don't expect me to watch it. The degrees in sensitivity are huge.

Adam Tyner

I wouldn't let a review dissuade me from seeing something I really want to watch, although reviews have turned me onto many, many films/bands/books/etc. I never would've thought to check out otherwise. That's a huge part of the appeal of reviews to me...that sort of discovery. (A bunch of pans can turn me off of seeing something I was on the fence about, though.)

If a review's written well enough, you can frequently tell if it's something you might like even if the review itself isn't particularly positive. I would personally consider Brian's Avatar review to be one of those...

Trevor

on all counts.

I'll admit that I don't read nearly enough film criticism, and perhaps I'm missing out on better stuff, but in my limited experience I find some of the reviewers here to be so good at what they do that I read the reviews even when I know I have no interest in the title. I'll also admit a fondness for long sentences and poor grammar. (just to be clear, I'm mocking myself with that last line, not any reviewers here)