I have a prob..i jsut finished hooking up my rears with the speakre wire I went and bought today and I am having trouble hearing them well..here is what I have done..
1. I am in normal mode prologic surrond, not wide or phantom..
2. I have done the test tone and have tried to equal all of them out..ive even turned up the rears all the way like +12 or something..
3. I have them on teh wall to the L/R of the couch a little above head level..
Im having trouble hearing them and on intros like any Platinum series new line or whatever I would think you would be able to hear it out of the rears too, but none for me and on THX intros...anyway..i know the rears are supposed to be soft, but i cant hear them...if i hit 3rd ch logic so it only comes out of the center and L/R right? then I can tell but i think its only because 3rd chan gets rid of the sub as well and I think im mistaking no sub for no rears...
This is kind of a far out guess since I have never been it this situation.
Insead of being in DD5.1 through the DVD player try using regular DD2.0 stereo. The receiver should then decode the stereo signal into pro-logic just like it does for a VHS tape.
daledude
08-06-00, 01:31 PM
If you can't hear the rears with a test tone, then something is wrong. You may want to get an SPL meter from Radio Shack to determine volume levels. It costs about $40 (the analog one is more accurate then the $60 digital one), but no hometheater can be setup accurately without an spl meter and a good test disc. You'll know for sure if the surrounds are playing loud enough.
Did you double check that the speakers are wired properly? You may also want to go to the back of the receiver and swith your main speakers to the surround output just to determine if it is the receiver. If your mains won't play the test tone at a decent volume then the receiver may just be defective/broken.
Are you sure the rear speakers are working properly? The speakers may have a problem (though it's not likely that both would be bad). If your using a very long run of wire (say 30-40 feet), then if it isn't at least 16 gauge you could have low output levels as well.
Honestly, my first guess would be defective receiver.
[This message has been edited by daledude (edited August 06, 2000).]
Bose Pro
08-06-00, 04:54 PM
My best bet would be that it's in Pro Logic. You never get much sound out of Pro Logic surround sound. Does the receiver do 5 channel stereo? If it does, turn this on on a CD and test the rears that way. I really do think that it's because it's Pro Logic.
Sometime soon you will want to upgrade your receiver to a DD. You can get some incredible deals on these now. Heck, even brand new ones are starting at $200 and you can find better deals on last year models.
Good luck.
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My Site (http://www.jeffcannon.net)
DigitalDuck
08-06-00, 05:19 PM
Hey guys thanx for the help so far..I want to clear some things up first..
1. I can hear the rears using the test tone, I can hear all of them..and I have the rears turned up as far as they will go (+12) its just in an actual movie I cant heart squat.
2. Im using 16 gague SOLUTIONS brand wire..not bad..didnt want to go monster right away..will after I get a DD receiver.
Thats about it..I can hear the speakers during a test tone...they are about as loud as the center is during it, and I can hear the center great..its just during a movie I cant hear anything out of them unless im literally right up against them...
Another q you guys..okay the cheap radio shack speakre wire ive had for like 3 yrs always said marked cable in "-" black input. Now my new Solutions wire says marked wire (which was red) goes into "+" not negative...now my sub instrictions says all over it..use marked half of wire for "+" input. Now here is my question. Since ive always gone with what the radio shack sire said. Everythign marked cable in my system with the exception of the rears is in the black "-" is that going to make a difference or should I switch everything?
It doesn't matter which side of the cable you use for "-" or "+" as long as the "-" on the receiver matches with the "-" on the speaker and the same for "+". If you wire one or more up wrong your speakers will be out of phase with the others. Also bass reponse will probably suffer because instead of the driver pushing out it will be pulling in. I always use the side with the writing as positive and the plain side for negative.
If you are getting sound through the test tone it is working. Pro- Logic is very weak in the surround area. It may actually be working, but the surround effects of the material you are using just aren't loud. Try setting to "dolby stereo surround" or something like that. One of the surround modes that uses the Left/Right and sends the full bandwidth sound to the rears for surround. Good Luck!
[This message has been edited by jumbojp (edited August 06, 2000).]
DigitalDuck
08-06-00, 09:42 PM
Thanx jumbojp, I really only have for surround is prologic, simmulated surround, studio and surround off. Not really a stereo surround option..I have 3rd logic but thats about it. Thanx for the speakre wire advice.. so hopefully once I get a DD receiver my rears will pick up..
If you can, go rent the Robin Hood prince of thieves dvd. This is an absolute gem for testing any prologic playback. On my setup the prologic is damn near as convincing as any dolby digital I have ever heard. Its a great disc to check and see if your prologic mode is working as it should. There is a small chance that your receiver is not properly decoding the 2.0 into prologic output, I remember reading somewhere about some receivers having trouble doing this. If you have any DSP modes try those out. Other than that it should work properly as the test tones are in fact coming through ok. Weird.
DigitalDuck
08-07-00, 01:58 AM
Furious..thanx for the input..Yeah I think its decoding it fine, I can hear them when im next to them, and I know youre not supposed to be able to hear them loud and realy easy, but its really hard for me to hear them or tell if any sound is coming out of them at all. Im not sure what else to do I guess...
Play a surround encoded movie or cd and when you get to a part where you figure there'll be surround information, switch from pro-logic to stereo. You shouldn't notice them when there on, but you should notice when there not on.
Surrounds in movies are meant for ambience, if you are hearing them as distinct sound sources then something is wrong.
DigitalDuck
08-07-00, 06:03 PM
Dale, thanx for the input..i found a setting on my player that has surround option (only if you have prologic) and normal if you have anything else...it was like downmixing or something..so I cahnged that and I "think" there is some improvement..but as far as switching to stereo and back..not sure what you mean..it doesnt have an actual "stereo" option...
Have you tried the "simulated surround" setting yet? I had an old receiver that had that settings, or something similiar.
Try it, if I am correct it will switch the sound the the fronts and surround equally.
DigitalDuck
08-07-00, 07:00 PM
jumbo..no I havent tried that setting yet..i always used to use it when I didnt have surround...now that I do I figured it wasnt the thing to use..i will try it though..thanx
What I meant was switching from pro-logic to stereo mode on the receiver. You should be able to hear a diffrence between the two when playing back a surround encoded movie. The diffrence will be that stereo will have less ambience then pro-logic. Untill you learn what to listen for, it's really difficult to tell the diffrence. Once you hear the diffrence, you'll be able to tell the subtle diffrence that rear speakers make.
Pro-logic is just some added processing to a stereo signal. Basically, info. coming from both speakers is sent to the center speaker while the out of phase sound is sent to the rears.
If you play a signal that is out of phase on a good set of stereo speakers you get a sound that seems to be coming from everywhere. The rear speakers are basically playing back the diffuse sound, so you really shouldn't be able to hear them as a distinct sound source.
DigitalDuck
08-08-00, 12:24 AM
Thanx again Dale, So really its surround, but even without the rears it would "almost sound the same" the big difference is when you add a sub and a center, is that one way to look at it? I did notice a difference when I played this spot in a movie where there was this big ballroom dance scene, (aniamted) I could hear the rears almost right away.
btw..im using all KLH. A new KLH sub and center/rear package along with two tall standing KLH for the L/R. My TV is a 35" Sony (guess that doesnt make a difference) and the rears are about 8' from the center of the couch either way and about one to one and a half feet up from head level.
I think everything is working fine. Ideally the surrounds should be about 6-8' above from the floor, but there is no "rule" as to how surrounds should be placed. I know people who have speakers on the floor facing up that sound o.k., although it would sound better if he'd just put them on the wall.
ECydeDave
08-08-00, 03:58 PM
I'd have to disagree with that whole 6' - 8' thing. Surrounds aren't meant to be that high up from your seated listening position. A lower placement is usually better and will sound more natural as far as sound delays go.
daledude
08-09-00, 12:50 AM
That's how Dolby reccomends putting them. As far as time delay is concerned, most studios mix surround tracks with the presumtion that surrounds will be mounted above the listeners.
I remember reading an article a few years back where direct radiating and bipole speakers were placed in several diffrent positions. The results tended to back up Dolby's reccomendations. When the speakers are placed too low they become to easy to locate by ear.
Of course the whole issue of where to place surrounds is subjective, so in reality there is no wrong way.
ECydeDave
08-09-00, 05:52 PM
Thanks for the explanation Dale. I just remembered where I got my info from. It was from the manual that came with my receiver. It said the best place was low and behind the listening position. Since all receivers are different, they could very well be placed in a number of positions. Sorry if I presented some "incorrect" information.
DigitalDuck
08-09-00, 06:14 PM
Hmm..I wonder if I should lower mine..theyre not too high, like my last post tells..but I dont know, I cant wait till I get DD, then im hoping maybe more power will get to them and the sound will be a little more obvious to distinguish...
ECydeDave, there's no need for apologies. Sound is subjective, you should always use what sounds best to you.
Duck, even with Dolby Digital you really shouldn't notice your surrounds to often. If your test tone signals are about as loud as your mains, then you really have no problem at all.
The whole point of surround sound is to envelop you in sound to make you think you are there and to forget you're listening to speakers, not to make it sound like speakers are all around you.
DigitalDuck
08-09-00, 11:33 PM
Dale..thanx again..true I understand what you are saying. I jsut put my receiver and cd player up for sale at audioreview.com so well see if there are any takers...again..I appreciate all the help guys.. http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif
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