vwbeetlvr

i am currently using the cables that come with my speakers and dvd players to connect everything. Do special wires like the gold plated wires from radio shack or 12 gauge speaker wire and digital coax cables really that much better? I ain't talking monster cables here, just plain old shielded and 12 gauge cable that cost a little more than the flimsy ones....

ECydeDave

The cables that come with most DVD players are cheap. But it all depends on how much you care about adding a little more quality to your setup. I recently just upgraded my speaker wire from 18 guage to 12 guage monster speaker wire. Each 50ft roll was $26 (regularly $30)!! I noticed a little difference, mainly in the bass (its a little cleaner and deeper), but my girlfriend swears it sounds the same. As far as video, I couldn't be more pleased with the improvement that the Monster S-Video cable made...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Anyway, I guess my point is, is that if you are very into your audio and video quality than upgrading your wires will make a difference. But if your are a casual HT viewer, I wouldn't bother spending the extra money on new wires (except the S-video because it makes a significant difference over the RCAs that the DVD player comes with). Instead buy some movies!!

neo247

It doesn't really make a difference. If you spend more money on some monster cables, it just makes you believe that it makes a difference but in my opinion IT DOESN'T! Just stick to the wires and cables that you have they are the same. Any S-video looks better than the regular yellow cable. Don't spend 30 bucks on any cable that does the same that the cables that came with your DVD player will do.

[This message has been edited by neo247 (edited July 24, 2000).]

DaveMorales

quote:<HR>Originally posted by neo247:
It doesn't really make a difference. If you spend more money on some monster cables, it just makes you believe that it makes a difference but in my opinion IT DOESN'T! Just stick to the wires and cables that you have they are the same. Any S-video looks better than the regular yellow cable. Don't spend 30 bucks on any cable that does the same that the cables that came with your DVD player will do.

[This message has been edited by neo247 (edited July 24, 2000).]<HR>

S-Vid cables usually dont come with a DVD player... usually only composite AVs... Without question go with S or Component video if possible, there is light-years improvement.


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A free Tibet - Keep Hope alive...

Stoney

I second that...

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daledude

For video, s-whs is better than composite (rca), and component is better than s-vhs. This has less to do with the cable then with the way the signal is carried with each type of connection. I reccomend buying the best type of connection that your t.v. can handle.

For audio, there is no valid evidence of cables making a diffrence. In a double blind tests using the same speaker, a group of "audiophiles" could not tell the diffrence and were merely guessing thoughout the entire trial. Most of the diffrence that people hear are in the level of sound (when given two equal sounds we tend to choose the louder as sounding better.)

With that said, buying cables is a subjective thing. A big part of how you enjoy your system is in your head. If buying expensive cables makes you think you made an impovement, then just be happy thinking you are getting better sound and picture. Otherwise, if you are on a budget spend your money on equipment for a real gain in performance.

vwbeetlvr

the thing i'm implying here is: do you think 12 gauge speaker wire will make my 100x5 receiver sound better than the cheap flimsy cables that come with the speakers???

daledude

No, but most people are uncomfortable with really thin speaker wire. 16 gauge tends to be what most people recomend, but test show the gauge and length of the wire has no effect on sound.

dchaug

quote:<HR>16 gauge tends to be what most people recomend, but test show the gauge and length of the wire has no effect on sound.
<HR>

Now don't get mad, cause I'm not saying that your wrong, but who did this "test". If you have a link or know what magazine it was in or something that would be cool. Cause it has to have some effect. You can't get around Ohms law, so if you increase the resistance that the reciever/amplifier sees via the wire by decreasing it's size a voltage drop has to occur. In a nutshell this means less power. Obviously some people may not notice it if it is a small voltage drop, but to say it has "no effect" is pretty bold.


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People say nothing is forever. If that's true how do you explain herpes or the Greatful Dead. I say forever is for people who got the balls to make it last.

mnguye10

Try this link for an answer to the question - "Do speaker cables matter?"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/AudioFAQ/part8/

The very first sentence:

It is quite scientifically conceivable that some cables do cause a difference in sound, because of the differences in DC resistance, interconductor capacitance, and connector attachment alone. The effects of exotic conductor weaving and materials are not so well established.


[This message has been edited by mnguye10 (edited July 24, 2000).]

dchaug

That's a good link. Very informative.

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People say nothing is forever. If that's true how do you explain herpes or the Greatful Dead. I say forever is for people who got the balls to make it last.

daledude

Several double blind tests have been done which came to a similar conclusion, but the test I refer to was by Tom Nusane (sp?) in Stereo Review a few years ago. Only the speakers and cd player were the same. Diffrent preamp, amps, interconnects and speaker wire was used. The cables on the low end system were unknown, simply refered to as what came with equipment and cheap. The speaker wire was simply called zip cord, I'm not positive but I think it was only 18 gauge. Both sides varied in lenght by a good 10 feet. The results of the double blind test showed that audiophiles using their own choice of recordings were simply guessing as to which system was the high end system and which was the "cheap" system. (the cheap system used an older, less powerful and cheaper amp, I think it was a parasound).

Anyway, I do not claim there is no diffrence. Just that the diffrence is not audible to the point where one can tell a "night and day" diffrence. The whole issue of less power only effects ultimate loudness, most speakers are sensitive enough to play very loud with relatively litte power (less then 10 watts).

I've seen other double blind tests which also back up these results, but none were as complete as the one I refer to.


It is quite scientifically conceivable that some cables do
cause a difference in sound, because of the differences in DC
resistance, interconductor capacitance, and connector attachment
alone. The effects of exotic conductor weaving and materials
are not so well established. In general, these effects (once
we eliminate DC resistance), seem to be small. However, if your
system is at least fairly good, then some folks have observed
(although not in an experimental, double-blind sense)
significant differences in system performance with different
cables.


That web site does a much better job of saying what I am trying to say.


[This message has been edited by daledude (edited July 24, 2000).]

dchaug

Cool, thanks. Tom Nusaine is a very respectable source.

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People say nothing is forever. If that's true how do you explain herpes or the Greatful Dead. I say forever is for people who got the balls to make it last.

ECydeDave

I'm not trying to say anybody is right or wrong, but here goes...This probably isnt a good metaphor/simile but heres how I figure it. Speaker wire is like a modem, you've got a connection through phone lines or cable. Phone lines are smaller and therefore info passes through them slower allowing more interference to be picked up along the way, where as cable allows more info to be passed through faster. I'm reading this and don't know if it makes sense or can even be compared to speaker wire, but I tried !!

daledude

The thing is to compare speaker wire with modem speed, you have to realize that the file being transfered does not even come close to the full bandwidth of a 56k modem.

Hearing is highly subjective. If somebody thinks they are hearing a diffrence then they are. Whether or not it's real doesn't matter, that person beleives it to be real. If somebody thinks cables are making a diffrence, then they should just buy the cables and enjoy the improvement. On the other hand, I would never reccomend spending a large part of your budget on cables if you don't have a big budget to begin with. At the budget level, you are better off spending an extra $50-$100 on electronics or speakers then wires.

For someone who already owns a system they are happy with, then I would tell them to pass on more expensive cables. Unless they have bad/defective cables, there really isn't any valid reason to buy new ones unless you beleive they will make a diffrence. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one who can actually hear the diffrence.

Justin Doring

If your speakers came with speaker wire (B&W Silvers excepted) then it really doesn't matter what you use for wire. As far as the generic RCA cables, it depends on your display and your DVD player. If you have a decent DVD player and TV it's worth upgrading to the entry-level Monster stuff. If the TV is relatively small and/or inexpensive (under 32"), the RCA cables that came with it are fine. Good luck!

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"Home is where the theater is!"

[This message has been edited by Justin Doring (edited July 24, 2000).]

Wolfchild

As Patman has noted on this forum, it might be more worthwhile using beefier speaker wire than it is spending a lot on expensive interconnects....the interconnects are passing a low-level signal whereas there is some significant current going through your speaker wires.

How long WERE the total distances in that Stereo Review test? What might not have come into question here is the distances involved. Some of us have lengths of 30-50 feet to our rears and 100W over that length through 16 gauge is marginal.

The lengths to my rears are pretty long, over 40 feet. I started out with 16 gauge and upgraded to 12 gauge wire later and I actually heard better volume out of the rears when I was done. Maybe it was in my head but I don't think so....that's a pretty long distance and the resistance of the smaller wire could have definitely diminished the sound I was getting. I'm not a big fan of Monster cables though....you can usually get good OFC speaker wire elsewhere for less $$.

weargle

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Wolfchild:
As Patman has noted on this forum, it might be more worthwhile using beefier speaker wire than it is spending a lot on expensive interconnects....the interconnects are passing a low-level signal whereas there is some significant current going through your speaker wires.
<HR>

I disagree with this assertion. You want to maintain the truest signal where the lowest signal passes. If you have some dropoff at a high current, you lose a smaller percentage of the total signal than if you lose the same amount of current (through resistance) at the lower signal. This is why you want a really good cable to interconnect A/V components.

Patman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by weargle:
I disagree with this assertion. You want to maintain the truest signal where the lowest signal passes. If you have some dropoff at a high current, you lose a smaller percentage of the total signal than if you lose the same amount of current (through resistance) at the lower signal. This is why you want a really good cable to interconnect A/V components.<HR>

I'll just point to the law of diminishing returns when it comes to truly expensive interconnects ($50-$200 for a 3 foot cable). If you have the money and it'll relieve any doubt in your mind, go for it. If you don't have the money, but think you need the expensive stuff, save up and buy the cables when you have enough money. If you don't have the money, and are content with good enough, save your money.



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PatCave ;HT Pix ;Pat's DVDs

notjafo

I think a general summary of the discussion here is "do no harm." It is subjective as to whether any individual can (generally) hear a difference between good cables, but clearly one can tell if there are bad cables - particularly if your interconnects are unshielded. Shielded interconnects do matter, especially if you have a whole tangle of wires in the back.

You can (or could recently) get 12G oxy free AR wire for 2.49 for 50 feet at www.recotondirect.com. Buy the right terminators for your system (banana or spade) and make up your own speaker wire. At a price like that, why go with cheap generic wire. You know the speaker wire you often get for free - transparent with one side silver wire and the other copper? It corrodes over time - I have seen spools of it with the length of wire looking green. That's not just bad for the audio (even if you can't hear it) it's bad to have the corrosion spread to your system.

For interconnects I have a combination of shielded Radio Shack AV wires (for the VCR) IXOS digital coax and SVideo cables, and an audioquest subwoofer cable. The subwoofer cable was the most expensive, but all of these range from $8 - $30. My speaker wire is 12G AR that I got cheap (2.49/50ft) and terminated myself after cutting it to length.

Another great online source is www.accessories4less.com Also, there has been discussion of this in other posts in this area.

As to whether there is a difference between good cables, the experience of an audiophile friend of mine may be telling. He has a low wattage tube amp (<15w) and very eficient speakers, and after auditioning a variety of wire chose neither the most or least expensive to keep.

mnguye10

I wonder what is the difference between car audio and home audio cables. My brother uses all his leftover car audio cables for his home stereo equipment (although it is pretty cheap). I wonder how hi-end car audio cables would compare, and how they are different from hi-end home audio cables.