part I (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/sports-talk/563479-yankees-vs-phillies-official-ws-thread-39.html)
continuing discussion. on to game 5!
coli
11-02-09, 01:24 PM
I was watching the Phillies Postgame show on Comcast and Brad Lidge was asked who covered third base on a steal when you have the shift on? His response, "Uhhh....I don't know." Charlie Manuels response, "Uhhhh..it is either the catcher or pitcher."
Glad we worked out the fundamentals in spring training guys;)
Stop with the damn shift on lefthanders with men on base!!!!!!
scott1598
11-02-09, 01:25 PM
i still hate Joba!!
cardsfan111
11-02-09, 01:43 PM
I was watching the Phillies Postgame show on Comcast and Brad Lidge was asked who covered third base on a steal when you have the shift on? His response, "Uhhh....I don't know." Charlie Manuels response, "Uhhhh..it is either the catcher or pitcher."
Glad we worked out the fundamentals in spring training guys;)
Stop with the damn shift on lefthanders with men on base!!!!!!
It's funny because I've seen teams who normally employ the shift, "take it off" with runners on base or at least make it to where it's not so exaggerated. It will be interesting if Tex comes up tonight or at any point in the rest of the series with a man on 1st if the Phillies make any adjustments.
It's funny because I've seen teams who normally employ the shift, "take it off" with runners on base or at least make it to where it's not so exaggerated. It will be interesting if Tex comes up tonight or at any point in the rest of the series with a man on 1st if the Phillies make any adjustments.
They shouldn't have to make an adjustment to the defense if they think it's the right shift to have for Tex. Instead, the pitcher should run over to cover third. He doesn't even have to be that close to the base. Just close enough to stop the runner from going on.
VinVega
11-02-09, 02:28 PM
They shouldn't have to make an adjustment to the defense if they think it's the right shift to have for Tex. Instead, the pitcher should run over to cover third. He doesn't even have to be that close to the base. Just close enough to stop the runner from going on.
Jeter even mentioned the time when he tried to do the same thing and the catcher ran over to cover 3rd base. He jammed Jeter's shoulder when Jeet slid into 3rd base. Point is, some teams have done the over shift and reacted to the runner trying for 3rd base after a steal of 2nd.
Obey The D
11-02-09, 03:05 PM
I've got a bad feeling about this series with the way Girardi is setting up the remaining starters. They should have kept AJ for game 6 because if they loose tonight I have a feeling Pettitte will get rocked on only 3 days rest.
cardsfan111
11-02-09, 03:06 PM
There's no way you can expect the catcher to make it in time under normal circumstances. After he throws to 2nd, he'd have to take off immediately for 3rd and still many slow-footed catchers are going to struggle to beat a runner with decent speed to the bag...not even considering catching a throw and applying a tag. The pitcher covering seems to be an option, but it would just be difficult to train your pitchers to get in the habit of doing this. They practice breaking towards first on the ball to the right side from the beginning of spring training...to the point where they don't think about it. It's no wonder when Lidge is concentrating on pitching to Tex in that situation that he's not thinking about covering 3rd on a steal play.
I think you have the shortstop take the throw down in the situation. Position the 3rd baseman somewhere between 2nd and 3rd (where he's playing anyway) and the runner then doesn't even attempt to advance. That's just the way I'd play it and it seems like the easiest play/approach for your defense to take.
They shouldn't have to make an adjustment to the defense if they think it's the right shift to have for Tex. Instead, the pitcher should run over to cover third. He doesn't even have to be that close to the base. Just close enough to stop the runner from going on.
The Phillies have made a number of fundamental defensive mistakes in this postseason. After watching nearly all of the games this year, I don't recall them being this sloppy all year long.
zuffy
11-02-09, 04:35 PM
The Phillies have made a number of fundamental defensive mistakes in this postseason. After watching nearly all of the games this year, I don't recall them being this sloppy all year long.
That's what they said about the LA Angels.
ctyankee
11-02-09, 05:37 PM
I wonder how many Yankee fans are heading to Philly hoping to buy tickets from frustrated Phillies fans?
raven56706
11-02-09, 06:34 PM
Offense is key tonight... we need to rock cliff lee... hell, we just need to get a run in...
btw, Jayson werth is definitely Edge from WWE
wirefan
11-02-09, 06:58 PM
I guess I one of the rare folks who thinks this series is far from over, the Phils should win tonight, you have Pettitte on short rest vs Pedro in game 6 (in my view a tossup depending on how strong Pettitte is) and you have Sabathia coming back a 2nd time on 3 days rest vs Hammels (edge to the Yanks, but you do have to wonder if the short rest will eventually catch up).
Not saying it is likely the Phils will come back or expected, but I certainly would not be surprised. I'd almost prefer to have a full rested Burnett vs Pedro in NY (where you can hide Molina's bat and Burnett has pitched much better at home then the road this year) and have Pettitte available in the pen to backstop Burnett or Sabathia in NY. You hate to "concede" a game and I understand Girardi's move, but he will get second guessed for multiple YEARS if this doesn't work out.
I think the Yankees may need one more game of 7 or 8 run output to win the series.
scott1598
11-02-09, 07:17 PM
agree with raven. i think if we score first, we win tonight. i think if Lee is a smidge off it will be very interesting. i'm not positive he will keep momentum from game 1 up tonight, but if he does, then game over as he was just spectacular and we'll take it Wed.
btw...anyone catch "Curb Your Enthusiasm" last night? the stone mason digging on Jeter and Larry getting irate. that was pretty funny.
wirefan
11-02-09, 07:22 PM
Offense is key tonight... we need to rock cliff lee... hell, we just need to get a run in...
The bottom of the order tonight is Gardner, Molina, Burnett. Nick Swisher is batting 5th... I'd be stunned if Lee doesn't go at least 8. Unless the Yankees Top 4 absolutely crushes I don't see them scoring more than 1 or 2 runs off Lee (which they couldn't do with a full lineup in Game 1). I also don't see ARod getting a lot of pitches with Swisher behind him, so unless people are on base in front of him, he may get pitched around or just the standard Phillies throw inside and don't worry about the HBP philosophy. (BTW if I'm ARod I'm standing on top of the plate for the rest of the series - he already stands pretty close, but I'm talking Chase Utley close)
Melky is out for the rest of the series and was replaced on the roster with Ramiro Pena. I think this is a huge loss as while Gardner is a good defensive CF'er (minus Melky's arm) and can bunt and steal, it takes away Girardi inserting him late as a pinch runner for Posada or Matsui or Swisher. It also takes away the late game defensive replacement where he can pull Swisher or Damon and put Melky in right or left with Gardner in center.
Quack
11-02-09, 07:24 PM
Bumped into a guy at a local grocery store who saw my Rivera jersey and he said the Yanks will lose tonight because too much money will be lost if they don't win in NY.....I personally would love to see them win tonight and then be able to be decked out in new garb tomorrow night at work for Election Night :)
scott1598
11-02-09, 07:32 PM
The bottom of the order tonight is Gardner, Molina, Burnett.
good. mixing it up. that's 3 players Lee hasn't faced yet. they aren't the best, but they are new and could mix it up just enough. advantage- Yankees!
raven56706
11-02-09, 07:34 PM
to be honest, i like gardner alittle more then melk
Quack
11-02-09, 07:36 PM
I don't mind having Molina behind the plate either....maybe he won't be bitching about every pitch called a strike like Jorgie last night.
Quack
11-02-09, 07:46 PM
Alanis is still around?
scott1598
11-02-09, 07:53 PM
I don't mind having Molina behind the plate either....maybe he won't be bitching about every pitch called a strike like Jorgie last night.
last night was ridiculous though. i don't think the ump knew the strike zone at all and consistently made bad calls for both teams. i mean bad. when FOX puts up there "unofficial" strike zone graphic, the differing results on so many calls were just horrid.
raven56706
11-02-09, 07:57 PM
lol at melky
BravesMG
11-02-09, 07:58 PM
Early reports are a LOT of empty seats at CBP right now.
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:00 PM
damn.... i wish i was there...
BravesMG
11-02-09, 08:05 PM
You watching tonight raven?
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:05 PM
yahhoooooo
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:06 PM
hell yes.... fuck my theory.. its the yankees baby!!!
Quack
11-02-09, 08:06 PM
Let's go!!! Nice running by Johnny and great hit by A-Rod.
chrisih8u
11-02-09, 08:06 PM
This series is over.
Quack
11-02-09, 08:06 PM
hell yes.... fuck my theory.. its the yankees baby!!!
......you're watching??? :-\
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:07 PM
Yankees aren't falling for Lee's pitches again... they are making him work...
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:10 PM
This series is over.
lol... stop.... the game is early... trust me..
Geddlo
11-02-09, 08:11 PM
wtf. a christmas commercial? first one i've seen this year.
Quack
11-02-09, 08:12 PM
Let's go AJ!!
BravesMG
11-02-09, 08:13 PM
I read that there was a big stink over the Yanks mound visits last night, supposedly the umps should have a little more discretion to take some action but I have no idea what the hell that could mean.
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:13 PM
vinvega... where r u?
Quack
11-02-09, 08:16 PM
F that, it was off the bat.
BravesMG
11-02-09, 08:16 PM
Holy crap that looked painful.
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:16 PM
lol... enjoy it shane... AROD says hi
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:17 PM
as i said... this isnt over
Quack
11-02-09, 08:17 PM
Fuck. Looks like we got bad AJ tonight.
BravesMG
11-02-09, 08:17 PM
Utley is out of his freaking mind.
Geddlo
11-02-09, 08:18 PM
that just aint fair.
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:19 PM
can we walk utley now?? i mean dont pitch to the guy..howard is playing like a moron
Quack
11-02-09, 08:19 PM
Well it did look like a meatball.
BravesMG
11-02-09, 08:21 PM
Did he just walk Howard? Seriously? The dude would swing at a wiffle ball if you could get it up there.
Quack
11-02-09, 08:25 PM
Great glove Tex.
KingSmoth
11-02-09, 08:30 PM
I think it's BS that you walk if you attempt a bunt and get hit on the hand. That's your own damn fault - practice!
Quack
11-02-09, 08:34 PM
What the hell cameraman, follow the freaking play.
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:41 PM
what the hell burnett?
Quack
11-02-09, 08:46 PM
Getting there AJ.....
Think they'll take out Shane Vic?
raven56706
11-02-09, 08:48 PM
probably... he's hurting
starman9000
11-02-09, 09:06 PM
Yikes, walking Howard again?
Quack
11-02-09, 09:07 PM
Throw a few more balls asshole.
Quack
11-02-09, 09:10 PM
Fuck you AJ.
raven56706
11-02-09, 09:11 PM
well i guess we are gonna have to win it at home...
raven56706
11-02-09, 09:17 PM
could it be because im watching the game?
Quack
11-02-09, 09:18 PM
That's what I'm blaming it on so far...
;)
raven56706
11-02-09, 09:19 PM
That's what I'm blaming it on so far...
;)
see i think im onto something.. the problem is if it reaches game 6... im going to the game..
scott1598
11-02-09, 09:19 PM
2 out of 3 in Philly ain't bad at all!
Quack
11-02-09, 09:22 PM
see i think im onto something.. the problem is if it reaches game 6... im going to the game..
well at least you won't be watching it on tv then. good for us. and where's my ticket?
kenbuzz
11-02-09, 09:24 PM
C'mon Yankees! Finish this!
coli
11-02-09, 09:24 PM
After seeing Burnett implode tonight on 3 days rest, you really have to give Sabbathia even more respect as he has done this many times in the last 2 years. Now AJ has blown up before on 4 days rest, but his fastball wasn't even hitting his usual 95, as I think he hit 94 once.
RoyalTea
11-02-09, 09:27 PM
do the phillies take out lee early to save him for game 7?
Quack
11-02-09, 09:28 PM
He'd still pitch part of Game 7 anyways, guys a monster.
whotony
11-02-09, 09:30 PM
Lee has never pitched on 3 days, so unless the phils get up by 7 or 8 I dout he'll coem out just to save his arm.
Quake1028
11-02-09, 09:41 PM
Oh boy AJ -ohbfrank-.
Quack
11-02-09, 09:48 PM
Let's show some life yanks!
whotony
11-02-09, 09:55 PM
that was agreat catch
Quack
11-02-09, 09:56 PM
white lightning!
CRM114
11-02-09, 10:00 PM
Let's get this thing to Game 6 and a short-rested Pettitte!
zuffy
11-02-09, 10:05 PM
Girardi took a gamble and I think this really is gonna bite him in the ass. Burnett suck away and expect him to do well away on 3 days rest? WTF? Now if they lose, they expect Pettitte to pitch well on 3 days rest too.
Quack
11-02-09, 10:10 PM
And then leave it all on CC if and when that happens in Game 7.
Quack
11-02-09, 10:16 PM
I think I may throw up if I see another commercial for American Idol.
raven56706
11-02-09, 10:17 PM
Arrggghhhhhhhhh
zuffy
11-02-09, 10:20 PM
That was a BS call.
wildcatlh
11-02-09, 10:21 PM
That was a BS call.
What, Posada? Sorry, but you can't call time when the pitcher's already in his windup.
whotony
11-02-09, 10:21 PM
I think I may throw up if I see another commercial for American Idol.
I havent noticed one.
hmm.
zuffy
11-02-09, 10:28 PM
What, Posada? Sorry, but you can't call time when the pitcher's already in his windup.
OK, I didn't see the first time Posada call time, got it and try to do it again before Lee threw a pitch. I think that pissed off Lee and the ump. :lol:
whotony
11-02-09, 10:33 PM
ties a record.
5 homers in the Series.
zuffy
11-02-09, 10:33 PM
Jesus fuck, stop pitching to Utley!
starman9000
11-02-09, 10:33 PM
Wow.
Quack
11-02-09, 10:35 PM
Yea, keep throwing him meatballs idiots.
zuffy
11-02-09, 10:39 PM
Looks like batting practice for the Phillies.
Quack
11-02-09, 10:43 PM
Thanks for watching the game tonight raven.....
oh boy another plus, seeing Hughes pitching.
starman9000
11-02-09, 10:43 PM
Been flipping back and forth, so sorry if I missed it, but have the Yankee's retaliated yet? Seems like now would be a good time (or are they calling Shane's knuckle pain good enough?)
KingSmoth
11-02-09, 10:43 PM
Utley should get MVP even if the Yanks win the Series.
whotony
11-02-09, 10:51 PM
get him out of the game.
victorino should stiill be in and Francisco should be in left.
starman9000
11-02-09, 10:52 PM
:lol: Looks like Shane was right to be confused.
zuffy
11-02-09, 10:52 PM
Nice! Still have a chance for a comeback.
SethDLH
11-02-09, 10:56 PM
Is Fox's HD feed having audio issues for anyone else? Its been cutting in and out every 1-2 seconds since yesterday during the football games.
whotony
11-02-09, 10:58 PM
Is Fox's HD feed having audio issues for anyone else? Its been cutting in and out every 1-2 seconds since yesterday during the football games.
it has been only 2 or 3 times this game for me.
zuffy
11-02-09, 11:00 PM
Good move A-Rod.
whotony
11-02-09, 11:12 PM
well here we go, if the Phils can't hold it here then well, what else is there to say.
Quack
11-02-09, 11:13 PM
Great confidence in the closer....
VinVega
11-02-09, 11:13 PM
Madson coming in. Confidence in Lidge is shattered.
whotony
11-02-09, 11:15 PM
:lol: Buck is trying to jinx the Phils.
VinVega
11-02-09, 11:18 PM
Here we go Yanks! Two on, no out....tying run at the plate. :up:
Quack
11-02-09, 11:19 PM
Nothing but excitement from New York.....why not?
VinVega
11-02-09, 11:21 PM
Doh, Jeet hits into the DP.
Quack
11-02-09, 11:21 PM
God damn it.....that's why I'd just rather lose by 6.
zuffy
11-02-09, 11:21 PM
Jeter just killed the rally
dan30oly
11-02-09, 11:24 PM
f*ck!
VinVega
11-02-09, 11:25 PM
Damon with a hit. At least make 'em sweat Yanks.
cardsfan111
11-02-09, 11:25 PM
Man, that Jeter DP was a killer for the Yanks.
dan30oly
11-02-09, 11:26 PM
Sweet!
whotony
11-02-09, 11:26 PM
finally
VinVega
11-02-09, 11:27 PM
Series 3-2. See you in NY.
Quack
11-02-09, 11:27 PM
See you Wednesday. Can't wait to beat the hell out of your bullpen again.
whotony
11-02-09, 11:27 PM
Well if the Phils lose the series at least they are putting up a fight.
starman9000
11-02-09, 11:27 PM
Exciting til the end.
Here's hoping for a game 7! Just for shits and giggles.
VinVega
11-02-09, 11:28 PM
Tack on runs by the Phils were the difference.
cardsfan111
11-02-09, 11:28 PM
I think it's clear Brad Lidge won't pitch any meaningful innings again in this series.
VinVega
11-02-09, 11:29 PM
See you Wednesday. Can't wait to beat the hell out of your bullpen again.
I don't have a hell of a lot of confidence in the Yanks' pen either. Slightly more than the Phillies' pen though.
edit - When I say the Yanks' pen, I'm referring to the non-Mo part of the pen. It's clear that Mo is the best reliever on either team.
zuffy
11-02-09, 11:29 PM
Looking on the positive side, at least we tried and made the game interesting. Cliff Lee wasn't as dominating. We can crack your bullpen. Intentionally walk Utley in game 6 and we're set :D
VinVega
11-02-09, 11:30 PM
I didn't see Utley's HR's, I was playing softball, but did I mention he is a Man-God? ;)
starman9000
11-02-09, 11:33 PM
I didn't see Utley's HR's, I was playing softball, but did I mention he is a Man-God? ;)
His second one came right after blasting one foul. He's seeing the ball about as well as Howard is raking up the Ks.
starman9000
11-02-09, 11:34 PM
Does Ozzie have a sermon to get to?
VinVega
11-02-09, 11:36 PM
Well, hopefully Pedro's Daddy shows up in game 6 and lays the smack down to the Phils. Night all.
wirefan
11-02-09, 11:37 PM
What's up with Girardi... he's been managing throughout the playoffs to win every game and worry about tomorrow later and it's now twice in the WS where he has brought the "scrubs" in with a 4 run deficit (this time with 2 innings left). You have an off day tomorrow, Marte's been the first lefty out of the pen all series, is one of the few guys not named Rivera pitching well in the bullpen and he brings in Coke who promptly serves up 2 HR's? What's the thinking there? Marte pitching an inning with a day off tomorrow may make him unavailable for Game 6 or 7 somehow?
Hard to say how the 8th inning plays out against Lee with just a 4 run lead instead of 6 runs... but it's still just 4 runs and while Lee was good, the ump had a postage size strike zone and the game wasn't over. I just don't understand the "let's get these guys some time" attitude when the 7th or 8th inning rolls around (or like game 1 with Bruney in the 9th) and the game is still not out of reach. It's a bit different if it's the 3rd or 4th inning where you need to get some innings out of the pen, but Girardi treated it like there was no way the Yanks could score 4 runs in 2 innings (and Lee had thrown enough pitches after 7, where he wasn't likely to finish the game). -ohbfrank-
CRM114
11-02-09, 11:44 PM
Well if the Phils lose the series at least they are putting up a fight.
:up:
CRM114
11-02-09, 11:46 PM
Well, hopefully Pedro's Daddy shows up in game 6 and lays the smack down to the Phils. Night all.
Pettitte is coming off 3 days rest. Better hold on for the ride. :)
Obey The D
11-02-09, 11:55 PM
So is anyone other than Raven going to game 6? If so, we should all do a pre-game meet-up at one of the bars.
whotony
11-03-09, 02:07 AM
610 wip is reporting that yahoo sports says Hamels and Myers had fight.
Myers saw Hamels at his locker after the game and said why are you here I thought you quit. Hamels responded with a profanity then a scuffle.
cardsfan111
11-03-09, 02:14 AM
^ They just talked about that on ESPN as well. You think other players might be upset as well, or is this just a fellow pitcher who probably would love the chance to be a starter again?
chrisih8u
11-03-09, 02:31 AM
Good to know Myers is fighting men now.
chrisih8u
11-03-09, 02:47 AM
Let's talk about the Phillies and their cheating ways. :lol:
“There’s rumors going around that when you play the Phillies, there’s a camera somewhere or bullpen people are giving signs,” Bowa told ESPN 950. “And catchers are constantly changing signs. That’s the rumor. Now, is it proven? No.”
Bowa, a former Yankees coach and Phillies manager, went on to describe a center field camera the Phillies allegedly use when they’re at home to pick up signs and relay them to hitters.
“I’ve had three people come up to me and say, ‘Watch center field. They got a camera. Some guy stands up by the fence. If their arm’s up, it’s a breaking ball,’” Bowa said. “I watched. I didn’t see it. But other teams swear by it. So I’m sure the Yankees personnel said, ‘Hey, heads up, these guys like to give signs at second.’”
There have been whispers around baseball that the Phillies were stealing signs in the past, including against the Mets in 2007. But it is rare to hear someone currently working for a major-league team be so blunt in public the allegation.
I'm sure Arlen Spector will try to get to the bottom of this very soon.
Goat3001
11-03-09, 08:17 AM
Good to know Myers is fighting men now.
rotfl
Goat3001
11-03-09, 08:35 AM
I don't know how to feel about this short rest thing. CC pitched well. Not his best game but 6 1/3 and 3 runs is very good and a game that he should have won if the pen held up.
Burnett got tattooed but I'm not sure if we can blame is on the short rest. He's had 5 starts this post season and the only good ones came at home. The other two games on the road he got hit hard. It's just Burnett's inconsistent nature.
Pettitte admitted that he had "nothing" in game 3 but that was on extended rest. Pettitte is a gamer so hopefully he brings his A game tomorrow.
Either way, it's all about getting to Pedro. This is the second time the Yankees will have seen him this World Series and they've already done much better off of Lee this go around so maybe they'll be able to get to Pedro a bit more too.
Even if the Yankees were to lose tomorrow, I'd like to see them get to Pedro and force Manuel to use Happ for more than an inning. That way he won't start game 7 and the ball will go to Hamels who seems to be ready for spring training.
Man this has been a fun series. Lots of big hits from both sides. A few solid pitching performances. Utley and Howard are mowing down records. A-Rod is coming up huge when it matters. Now we have Pedro coming back to Yankee Stadium in a do or die situation against one of the best postseason pitchers ever.
Question: If we go 7 and Hamels gets knocked around and gets saddled with the loss... will he be a Phillie next season? I can't imagine the fans will really be on his side next year.
Have the idiots that they call Buck and McCarver mentioned that Howard has tied the World Series mark for strike outs?
cardsfan111
11-03-09, 08:46 AM
Question: If we go 7 and Hamels gets knocked around and gets saddled with the loss... will he be a Phillie next season? I can't imagine the fans will really be on his side next year.
I'd be shocked if he wasn't in Philly. Even the fickle fans there won't have such a memory loss that they'll forget his performance in 2008 when it mattered most.
Brad Lidge is probably enjoying all this Hamels media attention. It's probably taken some of the heat off of him.
Goat3001
11-03-09, 08:49 AM
^ They just talked about that on ESPN as well. You think other players might be upset as well, or is this just a fellow pitcher who probably would love the chance to be a starter again?
If game 3 of the World Series just finished and my teammate said "I can't wait for this season to be over", I'd be furious. I can't blame Myers for saying what he did and I'm willing to bet the majority of the team agrees with Myers.
I also think that Cole's statements are a bit overblown. Yes what he said was wrong but the guy just came off a loss so you can't take what he said at face value.
On the other hand, it's never good when teammates (one of which is your probable game 7 starter) are fighting in the clubhouse, let alone in the World Series.
Goat3001
11-03-09, 08:51 AM
I'd be shocked if he wasn't in Philly. Even the fickle fans there won't have such a memory loss that they'll forget his performance in 2008 when it mattered most.
Brad Lidge is probably enjoying all this Hamels media attention. It's probably taken some of the heat off of him.
:lol: true and why do I get the feeling that this is all setting up for Hamels to pitch 8 shut out innings in Game 7 followed by a 1-2-3 save by Brad Lidge.
starman9000
11-03-09, 08:51 AM
Have the idiots that they call Buck and McCarver mentioned that Howard has tied the World Series mark for strike outs?
Yeah, they said it right away.
Goat3001
11-03-09, 08:57 AM
^I was piss drunk so I must have missed it. I don't think they said anything leading up to it. McCarver also said that AL teams aren't as used to Cliff Lee as NL teams are, so they're still idiots.
starman9000
11-03-09, 09:16 AM
They mentioned it several times before hand too. I know it's hard to believe the media isn't out to get you guys ;)
CRM114
11-03-09, 10:02 AM
Question: If we go 7 and Hamels gets knocked around and gets saddled with the loss... will he be a Phillie next season? I can't imagine the fans will really be on his side next year.
If Hamels goes in a hypothetical game 7, he will get the hook as soon as he gets a base runner or gets into trouble. Manuel will use every pitcher in the pen. Maybe he'll even get Jamie Moyer out there. :)
Have the idiots that they call Buck and McCarver mentioned that Howard has tied the World Series mark for strike outs?
Yes. A couple of times. Are you implying those announcers are in the bag for the Phillies? rotfl
Hamels statement was overblown and out of context, he said several times right before that remark that he hopes to have a chance to redeem himself in a game 7.
he was asked about how he feels about his pitching performance this season and he said he felt it was bad and hoped it ends soon, but he was referring to more of looking forward to having a fresh start next season and he worded his answer very badly.
Plus the fight may not have actually happened.
2 philly beat reporters came on the radio and downplayed it as if it didn't happen.
That it was just standard ripping from player to player.
Myers did say I thought you quit but not in the sense of the previous answer to a question.
The players say this when the game is over and a player is still hanging around answering questions.
"quit" = left the stadium or stopped answering to reporters.
overblown by the yahoo blogger.
wildcatlh
11-03-09, 11:11 AM
Let's talk about the Phillies and their cheating ways. :lol:
I'm sure Arlen Spector will try to get to the bottom of this very soon.
What, the ramblings of an idiot who's still pissed that he got fired, and says "I didn't see anything, but it must be true!". Yeah, that's a lot of evidence. :lol:
wildcatlh
11-03-09, 11:13 AM
If Hamels goes in a hypothetical game 7, he will get the hook as soon as he gets a base runner or gets into trouble. Manuel will use every pitcher in the pen. Maybe he'll even get Jamie Moyer out there. :)
If this does get to 7, one of the things to look for is Cliff Lee coming out of the pen. It's 2 days after his last start, which would normally be his throw day. So he's likely good for 45-50 pitches on Thursday if it gets there and if he's needed.
Goat3001
11-03-09, 11:36 AM
Yes. A couple of times. Are you implying those announcers are in the bag for the Phillies? rotfl
No. I'm implying that they didn't bring it up that often. Certainly not as much as they brought up Utley's home run's, A-Rod's RBI's and Jeter, Pettitte and Rivera's World Series numbers.
Goat3001
11-03-09, 12:06 PM
If Hamels goes in a hypothetical game 7, he will get the hook as soon as he gets a base runner or gets into trouble. Manuel will use every pitcher in the pen. Maybe he'll even get Jamie Moyer out
The more I think about it the more I think they'll start Happ. Regardless of what Hamels said to the media and where his head may or may not be, I just don't think Chuck trusts him right now. Happ might be the better option. I just hope (and you don't hope) the Yankees smack Pedro around enough to force them to bring Happ in tomorrow and have Happ only available for relief work for game 7, forcing them to start Hamels.
Of course if Pedro gets hit hard, chances are they won't win anyway.
This series may go 7 and the Phillies may win but the Yankees need to take advantage of being in the driver's seat right now.
RoyalTea
11-03-09, 12:24 PM
If the Yankees win the series, does Utley still take home WS MVP?
starman9000
11-03-09, 12:33 PM
I don't think so. I'd give it to Mo.
SonOfAStu
11-03-09, 12:44 PM
Utley would be as deserving as anyone in history on the losing end (if they lose), but Rivera is just as deserving and would be on the winning team. No brainer to me.
cardsfan111
11-03-09, 12:49 PM
I've always hated the idea of a postseason MVP coming from a losing team...never made much sense to me. Then again, I've retained bitterness from Jeffrey Leonard in the 1987 NLCS. :D
starman9000
11-03-09, 01:44 PM
Does anyone give out a full post season MVP award? That'd be closer between A-Rod and Mo IMO, but with MO still deserving it. I'd be more willing to look at a guy from the losing team for an award like that, however.
CRM114
11-03-09, 02:06 PM
Mariano Rivera is a stretch as Series MVP. He pitched in three games, the last two for a total of 13 pitches. Clearly it would be A-Rod or Utley at this point.
starman9000
11-03-09, 02:11 PM
If Lidge had tossed 13 pitches in his last game you might well be in the drivers seat.
Goat3001
11-03-09, 02:12 PM
I don't think MVP (if the Yankees win) has been decided yet. The clinching game may decide it. A-Rod's numbers don't pop out with the low average and 1 HR but if he has a good clinching game, it would have to go to him. If it goes 7 and Mo closes it out with 6 outs it's hard to argue against him.
starman9000
11-03-09, 02:13 PM
Oh no doubt, A-Rod could easily get it. If Jeter can drive in some runs he could too.
cardsfan111
11-03-09, 02:40 PM
Granted, there's still a bunch of baseball to be played but at this point I would consider Johnny Damon as a potential front runner for the WS MVP. .381 average, .911 OPS and the double steal that will stand out in everyone's mind. He's scored/driven in some big runs.
If Philly comes back to win the series, no doubt Utley gets it. He could go 0 for 10 the next 2 games and still get it, though he'll need to do better than that if the Phillies were to indeed pull off the comeback.
CRM114
11-03-09, 02:45 PM
Right about Damon.
zuffy
11-03-09, 02:48 PM
I would pick Mo or Damon as of now for MVP if the Yanks win. Utley easily if the Phillies win. I don't see the point of an MVP from the losing team. If that is the case, Barry Bond would have won the MVP back in 2002. He was beast in that series.
starman9000
11-03-09, 02:51 PM
Yeah, forgot about Damon, he'd be the front runner on offense if it were a vote today. Depending on the next few days, even Matsui could stake a claim.
wirefan
11-03-09, 03:12 PM
Mariano Rivera is a stretch as Series MVP. He pitched in three games, the last two for a total of 13 pitches. Clearly it would be A-Rod or Utley at this point.
You're missing a good series. I know you're used to cardiac saves, but you don't lose credit for pitching efficiently. If he picks up a 3rd save in either game 6 or 7 he probably will get it. A 2inning save, a 2/3 inning appearance (no save, but pretty much a save situation), and a 1 inning save in a series where most bullpen pitchers on both side were getting hit?
I agree with Cardfan Damon had the double in Game 3 which put the Yankee up for good against Hammels, the key hit and potentially defining play of the series (if the Yanks win) in Game 4, and also had a 9th inning hit yesterday (which turned out not to matter). If he or Jeter has a big game or two they might get it.
If neither does and Rivera picks up a 3rd save he more than deserves it in a series where no one Yankee has stood out throughout the WS.
Goat3001
11-03-09, 03:20 PM
Don't sleep on Matsui. A go ahead home run in Game 2 and a another one in game 4. He's also hitting over .500, although his ABs have been limited.
CRM114
11-03-09, 03:54 PM
You're missing a good series. I know you're used to cardiac saves, but you don't lose credit for pitching efficiently. If he picks up a 3rd save in either game 6 or 7 he probably will get it. A 2inning save, a 2/3 inning appearance (no save, but pretty much a save situation), and a 1 inning save in a series where most bullpen pitchers on both side were getting hit?
That's silly. Brad Lidge didn't get the MVP last year. With your thinking, he deserved it. And he was anything but "cardiac" last year.
starman9000
11-03-09, 04:01 PM
He's already won an MVP with similar stats, not sure why that's silly.
CRM114
11-03-09, 04:11 PM
Because he shouldn't win it over Damon or Utley who played every inning of every game.
starman9000
11-03-09, 04:31 PM
Hamels didn't play every inning of every game last year. Were you upset with that too?
SonOfAStu
11-03-09, 04:53 PM
I see what you're trying to do there with your logic and facts STARMAN!!
Do they have their own or is that a communal one on the mound? I may need to take this over to the otter sanitation thread.
kenbuzz
11-03-09, 06:13 PM
Why isn't there a baseball game tonight?! Let's get it on, no need to wait, let's play some ball!
Hell, let's make it a double-header if Philly wins. Go baseball!
huh?
11-03-09, 06:38 PM
Get to watch Pedro on the big stage again :up:
I think Mo or Rivera if Yanks win (MVP)
raven56706
11-03-09, 06:43 PM
Get to watch Pedro on the big stage again :up:
I think Mo or Rivera if Yanks win (MVP)
isnt mo and Rivera the same person... so your saying Mariano Rivera right ? :)
huh?
11-03-09, 07:03 PM
isnt mo and Rivera the same person... so your saying Mariano Rivera right ? :)
:lol: yes I meant Mo Rivera FOR MVP if Yanks win. stupid iphone keyboard...
parrotheads4
11-03-09, 07:47 PM
I think there is too much baseball left to call an mvp. Petite will not be sharp on 3 days rest, so game 6 is anybody's game. A Noreaster will be sweeping through New York to rain out a game 7. A rainout could give us Lee vs Sabathia. That game would decide the MVP.
scott1598
11-03-09, 07:52 PM
I think there is too much baseball left to call an mvp. Petite will not be sharp on 3 days rest, so game 6 is anybody's game. A Noreaster will be sweeping through New York to rain out a game 7. A rainout could give us Lee vs Sabathia. That game would decide the MVP.
don't know what part of NY you are in, but i am 30 or so miles outside the city and Thursday calls for 30% chance of light rain/flurries. all news stations have said the same thing.
parrotheads4
11-03-09, 08:05 PM
don't know what part of NY you are in, but i am 30 or so miles outside the city and Thursday calls for 30% chance of light rain/flurries. all news stations have said the same thing.
Looks like you're right. When I left for work this morning 880 said we were getting a big storm thurs. I'm going to root for it though as I'd love that match up.
scott1598
11-03-09, 08:34 PM
Looks like you're right. When I left for work this morning 880 said we were getting a big storm thurs. I'm going to root for it though as I'd love that match up.
you're a Phillies fan living in NY then?
wirefan
11-03-09, 10:09 PM
That's silly. Brad Lidge didn't get the MVP last year. With your thinking, he deserved it. And he was anything but "cardiac" last year.
-ohbfrank-
Brad Lidge threw 2 inings in 2 apperances in the WS last year.... as always your use of logic, knowledge of baseball and use of statistics (in this case Mo's pitch count:lol:) is spot on.
Yeah, pretty much by way of thinking I'm saying Lidge should have got the MVP last year.... rotfl
Again, thanks for putting words in my mouth - look up Wetteland '96 and Rivera '99... Unless there is a clear offensive frontrunner with a breakout game or two (Damon, Jeter, or as some have pointed out Matsui), Rivera should and probably will win it if he picks up a 3rd save (with a 4th "pseudo" save).
To go one step further and say it's a "reach" is even funnier.
CRM114
11-03-09, 11:18 PM
We'll see. Rivera could take the MVP after another appearance or two. Now? I don't think so. (By the way, I'm not sure how Lidge's two saves do not equal Rivera's two saves in this series.)
Now feel free to leave another sarcastic comment with lots of smileys. -rolleyes-
wirefan
11-04-09, 01:59 AM
Unbelievable...
Mariano Rivera is a stretch as Series MVP. He pitched in three games, the last two for a total of 13 pitches. Clearly it would be A-Rod or Utley at this point.
You're missing a good series. I know you're used to cardiac saves, but you don't lose credit for pitching efficiently. If he picks up a 3rd save in either game 6 or 7 he probably will get it. A 2inning save, a 2/3 inning appearance (no save, but pretty much a save situation), and a 1 inning save in a series where most bullpen pitchers on both side were getting hit?
That's silly. Brad Lidge didn't get the MVP last year. With your thinking, he deserved it. And he was anything but "cardiac" last year.
So you took my comment "if he picks up a 3rd save in either game 6 or 7 he probably will get it" and equated it to: my logic must mean Brad Lidge deserved it last year (2 innings pitched total).
And I'm the silly one....is Starman also silly? SonofStu? Zuffy? huh??
[/resisting urge to insert sarcastic comment like "maybe Starman's an unknowledgable Yankee homer slyly posing as a Twins fan"...oops!]
Jeremy517
11-04-09, 03:27 AM
Pitching two innings with a two-run lead and 1.2 innings with a three-run lead, with no inherited runners for any of those innings, is not MVP-worthy and it isn't really close.
raven56706
11-04-09, 06:49 AM
Pitching two innings with a two-run lead and 1.2 innings with a three-run lead, with no inherited runners for any of those innings, is not MVP-worthy and it isn't really close.
sarcasm or being for real?
starman9000
11-04-09, 07:32 AM
All right, it's game day. 5 more home runs buy Chase tonight and tomorrow and maybe all this MVP talk will become moot.
Luds
11-04-09, 08:14 AM
Come on Andy let's finish this tonight!
Goat3001
11-04-09, 08:16 AM
Just one more baby. Regardless of short rest, there is no one I'd rather take the bump tonight than Andy Pettitte. I know the stats are juked because of the extra playoff round but I've seen that guy grind out victories in the clutch more times than I can remember.
zuffy
11-04-09, 08:20 AM
Looking at Pettitte's 3 day rest records, it look like when he does get hit, he get hits hard. Otherwise, it's a gem or keeping the game close. I hope it's the latter tonight.
starman9000
11-04-09, 08:32 AM
Game 7, Game 7, Game 7!!! Kenbuzz and his dvr ineptitude be damned!
coli
11-04-09, 09:03 AM
Although I think the 3 days rest may affect Pettitte tonight, if you look at this series, each pitcher has pitched worse the 2nd time around.
I am a Phils fan, but I would be amazed if the Phils won 2 in NY. Most teams that come back from 3-1 deficits are able to send great pitchers up there to neutralize the team who is trying to close.
-Can Pedro pitch another gem? This is the first time in the playoffs he is pitching with less then a week off.
-Can the Phillies bullpen hold a close lead? If it is 3-2 tonight, does Manuel bring in Lidge??? Madson???
-Howard and Ibanez have been terrible against lefties this series, as they will see Pettitte and Sabbathia.
-Who is going to start game 7? Hammels? Happ? Blanton?
The Phils just have too many questions to come back in this series.
But I hope I am wrong!
CRM114
11-04-09, 10:58 AM
I don't understand the lack of Happ in the series. Also, where is Eyre?
I don't understand the lack of Happ in the series. Also, where is Eyre?would Happ start a potential game 7? or would they go back to Blanton?
wildcatlh
11-04-09, 11:31 AM
I don't understand the lack of Happ in the series. Also, where is Eyre?
Happ hasn't been there because of the way he tailed off towards the end. He's not there yet.
Eyre will come in when the situation prevents itself.
I have a feeling that tonight, however, if the Phillies are successful, will be Pedro and Happ. If it goes to a game 7, it's Hamels starting and then you're readying Blanton and Lee in the pen. I really think it could happen.
CRM114
11-04-09, 11:36 AM
I agree with your scenario regarding a possible Game 7. Have to go with Hamels.
Jeremy517
11-04-09, 01:13 PM
sarcasm or being for real?
For real.
scott1598
11-04-09, 01:48 PM
i'm already set to record my Thursday night shows. has that for confidence baby!
The Bus
11-04-09, 01:55 PM
There's no way the Yankees can lose tonight's game. They have this in the bag.
parrotheads4
11-04-09, 02:43 PM
you're a Phillies fan living in NY then?
Mets fan.
I love baseball. I'm just going for maximum drama, and that would be Lee vs Sabathia in game 7. I'd love both teams to lose, but if I'm rooting at all it's for the Yankees. BTW forecast is back to 60% rain on Thursday.
wirefan
11-04-09, 02:48 PM
Eyre will come in when the situation prevents itself.
Typo or intended comedy?
Goat3001
11-04-09, 03:08 PM
I love baseball. I'm just going for maximum drama, and that would be Lee vs Sabathia in game 7. I'd love both teams to lose, but if I'm rooting at all it's for the Yankees. BTW forecast is back to 60% rain on Thursday.
Unfortunately we're not going to get Lee vs. Sabathia for a potential game 7. Lee pitched game 5 and won't start on 2 days rest. We're looking at Sabathia vs. Hamels, Blanton or Happ... depending on how tonight goes and who gets used.
Goat3001
11-04-09, 03:10 PM
I have a feeling that tonight, however, if the Phillies are successful, will be Pedro and Happ. If it goes to a game 7, it's Hamels starting and then you're readying Blanton and Lee in the pen. I really think it could happen.
Assuming they use Happ tonight, I think starting Hamels and keeping him on a very, very short leash is the right play. I think if the adrenaline is pumping he can get through 3 innings but at the first sign of trouble, you put in Lee to get out of the jam. Then you go to Blanton in the later innings.
starman9000
11-04-09, 03:11 PM
He was hoping for rain Goat, to push the games back and potentially get Lee in there.
Tommy_Harn
11-04-09, 03:39 PM
Whatever happens tonight, it would be wise of Yankees fans to drop the "Who's Your Daddy?" chant. Its really pathetic, so much so that it makes the Tomahawk Chop look fresh and relevant. It could almost force me to flip and start rooting for the Phillies.
There are so many sub-plots involved right now, its really been a fun series. I never thought I'd be this excited about watching two teams I despise square off for a championship.
Goat3001
11-04-09, 03:46 PM
^That's the kind of excitement big market teams bring. ;)
CRM114
11-04-09, 03:52 PM
I'm really hoping Howard gets off the schnide. Howard exploding would offer some dramatics. :)
wildcatlh
11-04-09, 03:54 PM
I'm really hoping Howard gets off the schnide. Howard exploding would offer some dramatics. :)
As any Phillies fan well knows, Howard is very suceptible to this kind of slump. He's also apt to explode at any time and break out of the slump. Hopefully the Yankees will do something silly like walk Utley to get to Howard. Maybe that kind of slight will fire him up...
wildcatlh
11-04-09, 04:14 PM
Jayson Werth's slash line (batting average/obp/slugging) for the World Series, right now, is .188/.188/.750. He's 3-for-16, and all 3 hits are home runs. No walks. The line seems a bit jarring.
scott1598
11-04-09, 05:19 PM
Whatever happens tonight, it would be wise of Yankees fans to drop the "Who's Your Daddy?" chant. Its really pathetic, so much so that it makes the Tomahawk Chop look fresh and relevant. It could almost force me to flip and start rooting for the Phillies.
It is most likely the last time he will ever face the Yankees again, so for one more game who really cares.
cardsfan111
11-04-09, 05:32 PM
I'm really hoping Howard gets off the schnide. Howard exploding would offer some dramatics. :)
As any Phillies fan well knows, Howard is very suceptible to this kind of slump. He's also apt to explode at any time and break out of the slump. Hopefully the Yankees will do something silly like walk Utley to get to Howard. Maybe that kind of slight will fire him up...
I read somewhere that Howard's splits against righties/lefties show that he struggles mightily against the soutpaws. With the Yanks able to pitch Pettitte and Sabathia 5 out of the 7 games, it shouldn't be too much of a surprise they've been able to neutralize him. I expect Howard's struggles will continue tonight and in a game 7 should it happen.
Here's those stats for 2009:
Howard vs. RHP: .319/1.086 OPS/39 HR
Howard vs. LHP: .207/.653 OPS/6 HR
And he struck out 83 times in 222 ABs against LHP as opposed to 103 times in 395 bats against RHP. So no surprise we're seeing a new WS K record either.
CRM114
11-04-09, 05:47 PM
I think he had a couple doubles off Sabathia in game 1. He's certainly capable.
SonOfAStu
11-04-09, 05:52 PM
Whatever happens tonight, it would be wise of Yankees fans to drop the "Who's Your Daddy?" chant. Its really pathetic, so much so that it makes the Tomahawk Chop look fresh and relevant. It could almost force me to flip and start rooting for the Phillies.
"Who's Your Daddy?", Tomahawk Chop, Homer Hankies, Thundersticks, Rally Monkeys, etc...
NOTHING comes close to being as lame as "Yankees Suck" that I hear everytime the Yankees play away on TV. And we heard that all three games at CBP.
cardsfan111
11-04-09, 06:04 PM
I think he had a couple doubles off Sabathia in game 1. He's certainly capable.
Capable, but unlikely.
I didn't realize how bad Howards splits were until looking them up. In fact, it now amazes me that he's been able to generate 3 top-5 MVP finishes considering he's really be un-valuable to the Phils in a third of his ABs/games. Granted, for the other 2/3 of his ABs, he hits like Lou Gehrig. :up:
raven56706
11-04-09, 07:17 PM
On my way to the stadium.... Time to finish them off
huh?
11-04-09, 07:24 PM
I hope Pedro's arm doesn't fall off.
Quack
11-04-09, 07:40 PM
Very nervous here....really want to win it tonight.
deadlax
11-04-09, 07:53 PM
Ads for prime time tv tomorrow. nice.
whotony
11-04-09, 07:55 PM
Capable, but unlikely.
I didn't realize how bad Howards splits were until looking them up. In fact, it now amazes me that he's been able to generate 3 top-5 MVP finishes considering he's really be un-valuable to the Phils in a third of his ABs/games. Granted, for the other 2/3 of his ABs, he hits like Lou Gehrig. :up:
this doesn't make sense.
Even if you meant that the other way around it would still be impressive.
The best hitters in baseball history only get a hit in 1/3rd of their at bats.
so i'm not sure what you mean there.
Quack
11-04-09, 08:08 PM
Nice DP in the first by the pinstripers.
Quack
11-04-09, 08:12 PM
Dear Mark,
Please show up for one AB tonight please.
Thanks.
Yours truly,
THE YANKEE FAITHFUL.
raven56706
11-04-09, 08:24 PM
Crowd feels dead here... I have a towel I wave to get people going.... How is it on tv?
Tommy Ceez
11-04-09, 08:26 PM
Texiera is the New ARod
ARod is the new Jeter
Jeter is the new Bernie
Bernie has a new album coming out, interesting, huh?
Jesus... Utley extended his arm and caught it like if it was car keys...
Quack
11-04-09, 08:45 PM
Shitttty luck there.
cardsfan111
11-04-09, 08:51 PM
this doesn't make sense.
Even if you meant that the other way around it would still be impressive.
The best hitters in baseball history only get a hit in 1/3rd of their at bats.
so i'm not sure what you mean there.
I don't know what's hard to understand. Here's the simple math. The Phillies against a LH starting pitcher have a cleanup hitter batting .207 (in '09, still just .226 for his career) with moderate power. Needless to say, that's flat-out horrible for any hitter, let alone the guy hitting cleanup that you're depending on to drive in some big runs for you.
Tommy Ceez
11-04-09, 08:51 PM
Thats the 17th hit by a catcher against the Yankees this postseason
whotony
11-04-09, 08:52 PM
yeah but you said he hits like Gehrig 2/3's of the time. not one third, I don't get the math.
raven56706
11-04-09, 08:54 PM
Jesus... Everyone is nervous here.... I just told me side to bring the noise... They told me to keep it down.. Lol
Quack
11-04-09, 08:59 PM
Come on Tex, do something you fuck!
Geddlo
11-04-09, 09:00 PM
Here's a spot.
Tommy Ceez
11-04-09, 09:01 PM
I guess Happ is not starting tomorrow
raven56706
11-04-09, 09:02 PM
Tex did that on purpose... Let's go Arod
Quack
11-04-09, 09:02 PM
Sounds lound now raven :)
raven56706
11-04-09, 09:04 PM
Because of this... Jeezzzz
Geddlo
11-04-09, 09:04 PM
not even close to a strike.
cardsfan111
11-04-09, 09:05 PM
yeah but you said he hits like Gehrig 2/3's of the time. not one third, I don't get the math.
I apologize for the confusion. I was just trying to point out that for 400 ABs a year, Howard hits like the $15 million/year superstar. Against lefties, he's a lesser hitter than Carlos Ruiz. So again, no surprise about his struggles this series while facing an abnormal number of LHPs.
Buy: