Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
#1
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Glendale, next to L.A.
Posts: 18,484
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
http://www.mediabuyerplanner.com/ent...dvd-ownership/
We're taking over the world! Mwuuu Haa Haa Haa!
Chris
Published on October 20, 2009
Disney is expected to unveil technology next month that will give consumers “access rights” to movies and TV shows, allowing them to pay a single price for permanent access to content across the web, mobile devices, and cable services that allow on-demand viewing.
The technology, known as Keychest, allows users to purchase rights to a movie from a participating store, and the user’s accounts with other participating services, such as mobile providers or VOD cable services, show the content as available for viewing, the Wall Street Journal reports. The movies reside with the particular delivery company, and the user can access the movie from any device. This could mean an end to the necessity of owning of physical DVDs.
Disney has not named any other participating companies.
If successful, Keychest could conquer the hurdles that are holding back widespread adoption of movie downloads, mainly the difficulty of playing movies on any device other than a computer, and limited computer storage space.
DVD sales have plunged by 25% for some studios, weakening the studios’ business model. Keychest, though it may not be profitable for as many as five years, could bring the category “up to a healthy state where we can expect growth in the future,” says Bob Chapek, president of home entertainment at Disney Studios.
Time Warner and Comcast are working on a similar initiative, dubbed TV Everywhere. The service will allow subscribers to access their favorite cable content on other devices. Currently, a challenging debate is taking place between content owners and the cable operators on a proposed revenue split.
It could also be a challenge for Disney to rope movie studios, which may be unwilling to allow a competitor to control access to their content, into participation on Keychest.
Keychest could compete with the Digital Entertainment Content Ecosystem (DECE) initiative - made up of five major Hollywood studios and tech companies like Comcast and Intel - which hopes to create a new set of standards and formats to allow viewers cross-channel access to content. The DECE website says the group is a “consortium of some of the world’s top media companies,” and says the consortium will “provide a revolutionary new way to enjoy your favorite movies and TV shows.” The website contains no other information, but encourages visitors to “come back soon to learn how this groundbreaking technology will dramatically change how we experience digital entertainment.”
Disney is expected to unveil technology next month that will give consumers “access rights” to movies and TV shows, allowing them to pay a single price for permanent access to content across the web, mobile devices, and cable services that allow on-demand viewing.
The technology, known as Keychest, allows users to purchase rights to a movie from a participating store, and the user’s accounts with other participating services, such as mobile providers or VOD cable services, show the content as available for viewing, the Wall Street Journal reports. The movies reside with the particular delivery company, and the user can access the movie from any device. This could mean an end to the necessity of owning of physical DVDs.
Disney has not named any other participating companies.
If successful, Keychest could conquer the hurdles that are holding back widespread adoption of movie downloads, mainly the difficulty of playing movies on any device other than a computer, and limited computer storage space.
DVD sales have plunged by 25% for some studios, weakening the studios’ business model. Keychest, though it may not be profitable for as many as five years, could bring the category “up to a healthy state where we can expect growth in the future,” says Bob Chapek, president of home entertainment at Disney Studios.
Time Warner and Comcast are working on a similar initiative, dubbed TV Everywhere. The service will allow subscribers to access their favorite cable content on other devices. Currently, a challenging debate is taking place between content owners and the cable operators on a proposed revenue split.
It could also be a challenge for Disney to rope movie studios, which may be unwilling to allow a competitor to control access to their content, into participation on Keychest.
Keychest could compete with the Digital Entertainment Content Ecosystem (DECE) initiative - made up of five major Hollywood studios and tech companies like Comcast and Intel - which hopes to create a new set of standards and formats to allow viewers cross-channel access to content. The DECE website says the group is a “consortium of some of the world’s top media companies,” and says the consortium will “provide a revolutionary new way to enjoy your favorite movies and TV shows.” The website contains no other information, but encourages visitors to “come back soon to learn how this groundbreaking technology will dramatically change how we experience digital entertainment.”
Chris
#2
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
I still worry that we'll end up getting less with something like this: less quality because of inferior Internet speeds or having to compress the film and less or no extra features.
#5
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
A couple of folks mentioned this in the "why not upgrade to Blu?" thread up recently. I agree that as nice as Blu is, at this point in the state of technology, another disc based format just felt like a place holder for something bigger.
I would be mildly interested in something like, granted the restrictions weren't too draconion.
I would be mildly interested in something like, granted the restrictions weren't too draconion.
#6
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
#7
Moderator
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
#8
Senior Member
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
An interesting idea and if the various media companies can figure out how to get along, it could very well become the next standard. Hell, it's an easy sell. Call it the virtual collection, all the benefits of the right to view a given title without any of the storage headaches. There are plenty of people who would find this idea attractive.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: St. George, Utah
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
As much as I'm disgusted by 'rentalware,' DRM and non-physical "ownership" of films, I’m not sure I understand this as a business strategy. Part of the problem with home media is that, at some point, a consumer owns most of the titles they want. To make more money, the studios have double-dipped on the same format or tried to get consumers to buy a copy on the new format. Given the ability of kids to destroy tapes and discs of frequently played movies, I’ll wager that Disney has made a bundle in replacement copies too.
If this works as I understand it, the consumer will be able to purchase a title once and then watch it on any format in perpetuity with no real need to upgrade or replace it ever again. In the short term, this will probably make a bundle but it also will likely kill the home video business within a few years once consumers have all of the existing titles they want. After all, most people aren’t like us and couldn’t care less about the vast majority of catalogue titles.
This idea feels like the senior paper of an undergrad business major: “Awesome!” until the professor points out that one little flaw in the plan...
If this works as I understand it, the consumer will be able to purchase a title once and then watch it on any format in perpetuity with no real need to upgrade or replace it ever again. In the short term, this will probably make a bundle but it also will likely kill the home video business within a few years once consumers have all of the existing titles they want. After all, most people aren’t like us and couldn’t care less about the vast majority of catalogue titles.
This idea feels like the senior paper of an undergrad business major: “Awesome!” until the professor points out that one little flaw in the plan...
#10
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
Maybe the days of Dvd discs will be over sooner than I thought. I would still prefer physical media though. I would guess this would also be an end to the rental and used Dvd sales in time. Although it might increase demand for used Dvd's if people still want it in physical form. I have been moving and was considering ridding myself of alot of my collection but now maybe I will wait and see.
#11
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Glendale, next to L.A.
Posts: 18,484
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
This seems to be no different than the CD vs. (Ipod) digital format, with the latter gaining a bigger share every year.
The key thing about this 'Keychain' program is that it will be available for all types of digital players, home and away, if I'm not mistaken. More and more people (myself included) would rather not have to store the physical media on shelves. That is why I converted all of my CDz to MP3z and either sold the CDz or gave them away to a thrift store.
Chris
The key thing about this 'Keychain' program is that it will be available for all types of digital players, home and away, if I'm not mistaken. More and more people (myself included) would rather not have to store the physical media on shelves. That is why I converted all of my CDz to MP3z and either sold the CDz or gave them away to a thrift store.
Chris
#14
Administrator
#15
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Glendale, next to L.A.
Posts: 18,484
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
So even though I converted them to a format that better fit my needs, I would still have to keep all of the 400 CDz in storage? Well if that isn't the silliest thing I've ever heard!
Chris
Chris
Last edited by mrpayroll; 10-21-09 at 05:56 PM.
#16
Senior Member
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
I'm not sure how that flies considering the studio got their pound of flesh when the CD was initially purchased. Whether he chooses to hold onto the physical disc or not, it's hard to see where the studio got ripped off. Personally I hold onto my CDs because I've had plenty of hard drive crashes over the years. I've re-ripped them any number of times.
#17
Administrator
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
I'm not sure how that flies considering the studio got their pound of flesh when the CD was initially purchased. Whether he chooses to hold onto the physical disc or not, it's hard to see where the studio got ripped off. Personally I hold onto my CDs because I've had plenty of hard drive crashes over the years. I've re-ripped them any number of times.
I think the studio probably figured on selling more copies that that.
Fair use says you can make copies of what you own. There does not appear to have been a decision made on what happens when you don't own the originals anymore.
Legality of iPodMeister
Colette Vogele expands on the TWIL panel discussion on the legality of iPodMeister Her conclusion is iPodMeister would lose any U.S. copyright action that is brought against it.
Ben Franske's comment on the economic effects compromising the fair use rights to make a digital copy of the CD are important. Consider a world that contains 26 people. A is an artist who produces a CD, and sells it to B for $10. B make a digital copy - a fair use - and then to remove house clutter, sells the CD for $2 to a second-hand store run by Z. Z then sells the second-hand CD to C for $5 who makes a digital copy, and then sells it back to Z's store for $2. Z then sells it to D and so on.
At the end of this, A the artist will have sold one CD and received $10 (less any costs of production), B the original purchaser will have a digital copy for a net cost of $8, C to Y will also have a digital copy for a net cost of $3, and Z, the second-hand dealer will have the CD and made a net profit of $67.
So the scenario that Denise Howell practices, of keeping digital copies and selling her CDs second-hand can, in the extreme, mean no payment to the artist, significant payments to the second-hand stores, and everyone else owning a digital copy. That can't be justified by fair use.
Colette Vogele's article referenced above refers to this problem of the longevity of a fair-use copy. Denise makes a fair-use copy of her CD. Does it remain a fair-use copy after she sells the original CD? The market argument above, where everyone keeps a digital copy, suggests that for public-policy reasons the answer should be no. Would you argue that you could keep and use a backup copy of commercial software, when you have on-sold the original commercial software CD? That argument seems unsustainable.
Put simply "space-shifting" copying of a CD is a fair-use right of a product you own. Because you own it, you may do with it as you wish. Once you cease to own it, you may no longer do with it as you wish. After you sell your CD to your friend, you can't go a rip a fair-use copy of it. So why should you be able to keep the copy you made earlier. Does the fair-use copy expire? This has not been tested by the courts. It is unlikely that a court would find that the fair-use rights exist indefinitely, and continue after the originating source of the right - ownership of the CD - has ended.
Colette also dispatches the relevance of the "right of first sale" doctrine, noting that it relates to distribution rights, and not reproduction rights.
http://wiki.twit.tv/wiki/This_WEEK_in_LAW_20
Colette Vogele expands on the TWIL panel discussion on the legality of iPodMeister Her conclusion is iPodMeister would lose any U.S. copyright action that is brought against it.
Ben Franske's comment on the economic effects compromising the fair use rights to make a digital copy of the CD are important. Consider a world that contains 26 people. A is an artist who produces a CD, and sells it to B for $10. B make a digital copy - a fair use - and then to remove house clutter, sells the CD for $2 to a second-hand store run by Z. Z then sells the second-hand CD to C for $5 who makes a digital copy, and then sells it back to Z's store for $2. Z then sells it to D and so on.
At the end of this, A the artist will have sold one CD and received $10 (less any costs of production), B the original purchaser will have a digital copy for a net cost of $8, C to Y will also have a digital copy for a net cost of $3, and Z, the second-hand dealer will have the CD and made a net profit of $67.
So the scenario that Denise Howell practices, of keeping digital copies and selling her CDs second-hand can, in the extreme, mean no payment to the artist, significant payments to the second-hand stores, and everyone else owning a digital copy. That can't be justified by fair use.
Colette Vogele's article referenced above refers to this problem of the longevity of a fair-use copy. Denise makes a fair-use copy of her CD. Does it remain a fair-use copy after she sells the original CD? The market argument above, where everyone keeps a digital copy, suggests that for public-policy reasons the answer should be no. Would you argue that you could keep and use a backup copy of commercial software, when you have on-sold the original commercial software CD? That argument seems unsustainable.
Put simply "space-shifting" copying of a CD is a fair-use right of a product you own. Because you own it, you may do with it as you wish. Once you cease to own it, you may no longer do with it as you wish. After you sell your CD to your friend, you can't go a rip a fair-use copy of it. So why should you be able to keep the copy you made earlier. Does the fair-use copy expire? This has not been tested by the courts. It is unlikely that a court would find that the fair-use rights exist indefinitely, and continue after the originating source of the right - ownership of the CD - has ended.
Colette also dispatches the relevance of the "right of first sale" doctrine, noting that it relates to distribution rights, and not reproduction rights.
http://wiki.twit.tv/wiki/This_WEEK_in_LAW_20
#18
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
Wow. You really don't see how that is pirating CDs? But let me guess, you're the type that avoid buying homemade DVDs of material that has never been made officially available because THAT would be wrong.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Just South of Nowhere
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
One of the things I was reading about said subject was that Disney execs were excited about the prospects of getting vault stuff out there that may be a niche market. Stuff that wouldn't be a viable
sell on DVD. And yes, the movie you're thinking of was mentioned specifically.
sell on DVD. And yes, the movie you're thinking of was mentioned specifically.
#21
DVD Talk Reviewer/Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Formerly known as L. Ron zyzzle - On a cloud of Judgement
Posts: 14,481
Received 1,834 Likes
on
1,229 Posts
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
Anyway, I understand the above semantically and legally, but it just seems weird. Shouldn't then selling your used CDs to a used CD retailer also be considered pirating? If you sell your CD shouldn't you be obligated to pay royalties?
As per the OP: DVDs and such will likely die a verrry slow death, if they ever disappear completely. Clearly CDs are still around after ten years or so of MP3s, and Vinyl is even making a comeback. Be interesting to see analytics about energy consumption of manufacturing/transporting/etc. physical media compared to endless servers humming along day and night so we can have whatever we want whenever.
[goes back to making stone tools, and ... /rant]
#23
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
this idea has been kicked around for quite a while methinks. but i dont see the answer to one of the money questions that keeps coming up... how do they make sure a consumer who paid for access (at home, on a computer, via internet and to a laptop, etc) is the one viewing the programming?
hey disney! im "going to my friend's house" and would like to watch the flick i paid for over there. no problem, right?
besides, that is a lot of bandwidth eh?
hey disney! im "going to my friend's house" and would like to watch the flick i paid for over there. no problem, right?
besides, that is a lot of bandwidth eh?
#24
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
The studios would then buy major stakes in the isps and then jack the rates for bandwidth(which has already started in some markets). "Never trust Disney" will soon replace "never trust the government".
#25
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Keychest: Disney to Unveil System to Bypass DVD Ownership!
Whenever this "all of our media will be streamed future" or cloud computing comes up, I always wonder where all of this bandwidth is going to come from.
ISPs have been getting stingy with bandwidth in the past couple of years, and seem to get pissed off whenever someone uses more than they think they should be using. They've been capping accounts and charging for overuse.
So what's going to happen when someone's kid wants to watch their favorite Disney movie over and over again?
ISPs have been getting stingy with bandwidth in the past couple of years, and seem to get pissed off whenever someone uses more than they think they should be using. They've been capping accounts and charging for overuse.
So what's going to happen when someone's kid wants to watch their favorite Disney movie over and over again?