Sure it's a few days early, but this is the inevitable match-up.
Make your picks!
Mine: An absolute classic. Lots of offense. AROD and Howard both hit 4 HRS in the series. Cliff Lee goes 2-0 and wins the MVP as the Phillies win in 7 games.
cardsfan111
10-20-09, 11:36 PM
Ah, yes...I remember listening to a St. Louis based radio station in October of 1996. The Cardinals had just taken a 3 games to 1 lead over the Braves in the NLCS. All the callers on this particular night wanted to know how the Cards matched up with the Yankees in the World Series. I kept thinking, "You idiots! We're not there yet!" Alas, St. Louis never made it to the World Series that year.
tofferman
10-21-09, 12:08 AM
For those on the West Coast, at least the games will end at a decent hour. :up:
Go Phillies!
JBR52
10-21-09, 01:40 AM
Hopefully this hexed this World Series matchup. I predict the west coast forgets about baseball if this happens.
raven56706
10-21-09, 05:28 AM
dont jinx my yankees
coli
10-21-09, 05:53 AM
Ah, yes...I remember listening to a St. Louis based radio station in October of 1996. The Cardinals had just taken a 3 games to 1 lead over the Braves in the NLCS. All the callers on this particular night wanted to know how the Cards matched up with the Yankees in the World Series. I kept thinking, "You idiots! We're not there yet!" Alas, St. Louis never made it to the World Series that year.
I agree that 'it aint over til its over', but the difference is that the Braves team that came back 3-1 had Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz pitching in Games 5,6, and 7. The Dodgers and Angels just don't have 3 studs that they can throw out in the last 3 games to overcome this deficit. I just think the Yankees and Phils lineups are too strong to be silenced for 3 games in a row.
Overall, if its a Yanks/Phils WS, what is the over/under on Homeruns hit? And what is the over/under on Freezing Temperatures at game time? Games #4,5,6,7 will be played in November because of that stupid World Baseball Classic delayed the start of the season. Another Smart move Mr. Selig!
Goat3001
10-21-09, 05:53 AM
I remember when the Yankees won 2 in a row at home and then marched into Fenway and embarrassed a good Red Sox team in game 3. The series was over. The Yankees were going to the World Series. The Curse of the Bambino was going to live on.
Yeah, let's not count chickens just yet.
raven56706
10-21-09, 07:34 AM
this isnt over.... hell Boston came back from 3-0 to win the whole thing..
CRM114
10-21-09, 08:01 AM
This is a serious jinx.
Quack
10-21-09, 09:39 AM
What an idiot....talk about bad karma.
spainlinx0
10-21-09, 09:55 AM
Ron Bennington (Phillies fan) would stab you in the chest for offering a jinx up like this. You don't want the powers that be to even know the Phillies are in the postseason, let alone start acting like you won anything.
dx23
10-21-09, 10:01 AM
Jumpcutz has become the Steve Bartman of DVDTalk.
LurkerDan
10-21-09, 10:55 AM
I cannot imagine a matchup I would detest more. :(
The Bus
10-21-09, 11:01 AM
Pfft. The Dodgers are guaranteed to go to the World Series this year.
wildcatlh
10-21-09, 11:19 AM
I think the Royals will definitely win this series. Zach Greinke going 3 times? The Mets have no chance.
Goat3001
10-21-09, 11:34 AM
I think the Royals will definitely win this series. Zach Greinke going 3 times? The Mets have no chance.
Forget Zach Grienke. The Mets have no chance because they're the Mets. They could be playing the kids from Sandlot and they would still lose the series in 6 games.
Qui Gon Jim
10-21-09, 11:54 AM
I remember when the Yankees won 2 in a row at home and then marched into Fenway and embarrassed a good Red Sox team in game 3. The series was over. The Yankees were going to the World Series. The Curse of the Bambino was going to live on.
Yeah, let's not count chickens just yet.
Remember it? It was five years ago today.
Jeremy517
10-21-09, 01:00 PM
Speaking of the Mets, Steve Phillips is as bad of a judge of talent in mistresses as he is talent in baseball players. He cheated on his wife with her:
ESPN analyst Steve Phillips had a fling with a 22-year-old production assistant, who, after being dumped, taunted his wife with "Fatal Attraction"-like phone calls and a letter that bragged about her sexcapades with Phillips while taking pot shots at their "loveless marriage," The Post has learned.
The Bus
10-21-09, 01:13 PM
Subject: Preparations for Spontaneous Phillies Fan Celebration
To: “Center City District PCAN, Law Enforcement”
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 5:26 PM
In light of the incidents that occurred after last year’s Phillies Championship win, the City is taking steps to insure that any spontaneous victory celebrations stay positive on Wednesday night (or whenever the Phillies clinch the National League pennant). The Philadelphia Police Department will be deploying additional officers in Center City around South Broad Street to establish a safe environment for fans, property owners and businesses alike.
Property owners and businesses are being asked to survey their properties including loading docks, garage entries and alleyways for any non-fixed or permanent items such as planters, valet or sale signs, unsecured or unlocked dumpsters, bike racks, etc. The Philadelphia Police are asking that those items be removed temporarily or secured from harm.
The City is removing the new solar trash cans and replacing them with wire mesh cans that will be chained to poles. Newspaper publishers are being asked to remove unsecured honor boxes (newspaper boxes) as an additional precaution. In addition, restaurants and bars have been asked to refrain from serving take-out beverages in glasses or glass bottles and to use plastic instead.
Lastly, parking restrictions will be in place on Wednesday evening, starting at 6:00 PM to 6:00 AM along South Broad Street from City Hall to Locust Street, from 13th to 15th Streets and on the cross streets in between. In addition, parking will be restricted on North Broad Street from City Hall to Poplar Streets.
Thank you for your cooperation. Go Phillies!
:lol:
Goat3001
10-21-09, 01:26 PM
Remember it? It was five years ago today.
I do. Bostondirtdogs reminded me of it yesterday. By the way, those guys give Red Sox fans a bad name with such quotes like this:
That Little Romp Over the Cardinals Was Just Icing on the Cake
raven56706
10-21-09, 02:18 PM
phew... thankfully the mod is on our side
VinVega
10-21-09, 03:41 PM
I don't like this thread at all. Let both of the series end before you bring this kind of bad karma.
dx23
10-21-09, 04:10 PM
Speaking of the Mets, Steve Phillips is as bad of a judge of talent in mistresses as he is talent in baseball players. He cheated on his wife with her:
There isn't any amount of alcohol that will make anyone, other than a Met, hit that.
zuffy
10-21-09, 04:40 PM
Steve Phillips is the metrosexual type. I am suprised he would hit that.
Red Dog
10-21-09, 05:55 PM
I loved the assessment of Steve Phillips on barstool sports:
Yikes! You’d think that somebody with so much experience in the affair game would know better than to fuck an ugly chick and make her feel special. I mean what did Steve Phillips think was going to happen here? Obviously this chick was going to go psycho when he broke up with her and start writing letters to his wife and facebooking his kids etc. Poor bitch probably hadn’t been laid in like 10 years before Phillips and his birth marked cock came rolling around. You just don’t stir the echos of an ugly chicks pussy like this and then expect her to go away quietly into the night. Pretty fucking sloppy work by Steve Phillips if you ask me.
PS – This is why you only have affairs with hot chicks. Because not only does it reduce the chance that they fall in love with you, but more importantly even if they go psycho you can still kind of rationalize it with the fact that hot pussy is hot pussy. I mean this isn’t even a scandal if Brooke is hot. You think ESPN suspends him? You think the NY Post does an article on it? No way. Just another celebrity fucking a hot bitch and nobody can hold that against you. But ugly chicks? Totally different ball game. I’m sure that’s why Phillip’s wife is finally leaving him too. She could take the first 39 affairs, but a woman can only be pushed so far. It’s like the First Lady always tells me, if I’m going to cheat at least make it be with a smokeshow so she can kind of understand it and can still look her friends in the eye. It’s just cheating common courtesy really. You’d think Steve Phillips would have known better.
Double PS – Did Steve Phillips really pull out the old ”I had a vasectamy trick” on this mutant? I would have been putting condom over condom over condom.
rotfl :lol: rotfl
Dubya
10-21-09, 06:01 PM
^That is classic because every word rings true! What was he thinking?!?
Tommy_Harn
10-21-09, 07:16 PM
Yes, this match-up is a Mets' fans worst nightmare. I might have to do as I did in 1999 and pull for the Yankees (while vomiting between each inning).
Though I'll really be rooting for a 20th anniversary appearance from the World Series Earthquake. Hopefully it can amp up a little more power on the Richter Scale this time around and take out a chunk of the two most obnoxious fanbases in baseball. Kidding, of course (about hoping for thousands of casualties, not about Yankees and Phillies fans being predominantly douchebags).
There isn't any amount of alcohol that will make anyone, other than a Met, hit that.
If Breckin Meyer grew his hair out, this is what he'd look like.
But on-topic, I do think it will be Yanks vs. Phils. And I hope the WS will go past 5 games, because it hasn't since 2003 (Marlins beat the Yanks in 6).
whotony
10-21-09, 09:50 PM
Well unless the Phils have a meltdown they are up 8-3 after 7..........
awil1026
10-21-09, 09:57 PM
If Breckin Meyer grew his hair out, this is what he'd look like.
rotfl
whotony
10-21-09, 10:00 PM
Ok Dandy Don Meredith were are you now, what was that song he would sing when the game was out of reach?
LurkerDan
10-21-09, 10:14 PM
Yes, this match-up is a Mets' fans worst nightmare. I might have to do as I did in 1999 and pull for the Yankees (while vomiting between each inning).
No can do. While I won't be rooting for the Phils in the least, there is no fucking way I would choose the Yankees over them. I always hope the Yankees lose, always, and I'm not about to stop now.
whotony
10-21-09, 10:15 PM
Madson is terrible in this series.
whotony
10-21-09, 10:30 PM
I hope the Yanks finish that one up next game too so no long wait for the Phils to the series.
wlmowery
10-21-09, 10:35 PM
I hope the Yanks finish that one up next game too so no long wait for the Phils to the series.
Unfortunately, the WS does not start until next Wed, regardless of how soon the ALCS and NLCS run. So, assuming the Phils hold on to win, they will have a week off.
whotony
10-21-09, 10:37 PM
"turn out the Lights..........."
whotony
10-21-09, 10:37 PM
Unfortunately, the WS does not start until next Wed, regardless of how soon the ALCS and NLCS run. So, assuming the Phils hold on to win, they will have a week off.
If the Yanks win next, at least it will be about the same time off for both teams.
wlmowery
10-21-09, 10:39 PM
If the Yanks win next, at least it will be about the same time off for both teams.
Yup. That's my hope. Make it even for both.
zekeburger1979
10-21-09, 10:54 PM
If the Yankees win tomorrow night, that means that the Game 1 starters will be C.C. Sabathia and Cliff Lee. I hope both GM's remember to send Thank You cards to Mark Shapiro. :)
CRM114
10-21-09, 11:14 PM
The Phils will suddenly get a large national following in this series. If you aren't a Yankees fan, chances are you want them to lose.
JumpCutz
10-21-09, 11:36 PM
Jumpcutz has become the Steve Bartman of DVDTalk.
:lol: :banana: :lol:
RayChuang
10-21-09, 11:53 PM
The Phils will suddenly get a large national following in this series. If you aren't a Yankees fan, chances are you want them to lose.
Actually, the Phillies' success will distract Philadelphia sports fan from the usual season-long soap opera that is the Eagles. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/remake/wink.gif
Qui Gon Jim
10-22-09, 07:12 AM
I do. Bostondirtdogs reminded me of it yesterday. By the way, those guys give Red Sox fans a bad name with such quotes like this:
Yeah. They are a little over the top.
Red Dog
10-22-09, 07:27 AM
The Phils will suddenly get a large national following in this series. If you aren't a Yankees fan, chances are you want them to lose.
Or you don't really care.
coli
10-22-09, 07:29 AM
The Phils will suddenly get a large national following in this series. If you aren't a Yankees fan, chances are you want them to lose.
This will be interesting, because the Yankees are like Notre Dame and The Cowboys, you hate them just for the sake of hating them.
But being a Philly fan, the national pundits always bury us and can't let it go that we threw snowballs at Santa Clause in 1967, so they make us all come off as scumbags.
Even though we are not:)
Luds
10-22-09, 08:03 AM
dont jinx my yankees
Wow there now, they are my Yankees too ;)
CRM114
10-22-09, 08:10 AM
Or you don't really care.
Chances are if you bother watching baseball at all, you care.
CRM114
10-22-09, 08:11 AM
Now let's sit back and watch the Angels win the next three in a row. ;)
SonOfAStu
10-22-09, 08:17 AM
The Phils will suddenly get a large national following in this series. If you aren't a Yankees fan, chances are you want them to lose.
Not really. As a Pirates fan, I don't have much love for the Phillies. And I'd rather see a team that hasn't won one in a while (compared to the competition) win than the team that won it last year.
Red Dog
10-22-09, 08:25 AM
Not really. As a Pirates fan, I don't have much love for the Phillies. And I'd rather see a team that hasn't won one in a while (compared to the competition) win than the team that won it last year.
Yeah - I wouldn't automatically assume Philly is going to get all this love even against the hated Yanks. They just won and sports fans don't like Philly (not really the teams, but the Philly fans). There's no real underdog either. So I think there will be a certain meh factor. Now I've been to CBP and think the baseball fan element in Philly is far different than the football fan element, but most fans outside Philly don't know that.
CRM114
10-22-09, 08:35 AM
"Element?" :lol: How tired.
Red Dog
10-22-09, 08:46 AM
"Element?" :lol: How tired.
And how true. I'll experience it on Monday night when they come down in droves.
CRM114
10-22-09, 09:24 AM
The monolithic Eagle fan base. And no other fans do anything remotely similar... Santa meet snowballs.
Red Dog
10-22-09, 09:29 AM
The monolithic Eagle fan base. And no other fans do anything remotely similar... Santa meet snowballs.
I never claimed that, but in my experience attending NFL games, I've only seen violent behavior occur at Eagles games (whether in Philly or when their fans visit FedEx). When the Redskins play the Giants or Cowboys here, you rarely see fights break out even though there is good number of Giants/Cowboys fans in the crowd.
The point remains - Philly fans have a reputation (earned or not - for Eagles fans, I think it's earned), so don't necessarily expect love to flow their way.
SonOfAStu
10-22-09, 09:32 AM
The Philly fan "element" is surely exaggerated, but it didn't come out of nowhere.
Not all Red Sox fans are "inferiority complex having douche bags" but that stereotype exists for a reason. It's accurate for a great number of them.
Red Dog
10-22-09, 09:34 AM
Not all Red Sox fans are "inferiority complex having douche bags" but that stereotype exists for a reason. It's accurate for a great number of them.
I don't even know what to think of Red Sox fans, since seemingly 2/3 weren't fans of the team until this decade.
CRM114
10-22-09, 09:37 AM
Just wait until the Phillie and Yankee "elements" collide. :lol:
Red Dog
10-22-09, 09:49 AM
Just wait until the Phillie and Yankee "elements" collide. :lol:
Meh. Any such 'elements' will be priced out (particularly at Yankee Stadium). Besides, like I said, CBP already has a pleasant atmosphere/element.
The Bus
10-22-09, 11:03 AM
I can't even imagine a Mets fan watching this series. Who would they cheer for? :lol:
cardsfan111
10-22-09, 12:29 PM
If it does indeed become the Phils vs. the Yankees, I'm not sure who I'll pull for...as it was mentioned, I'm one who would usually go for the underdog, but in this case you have 2 teams with all kinds of recent success. I'll probably cheer for some 4 1/2 hour games ending in the wee hours of the morning, more bad umpiring and a Yankee sweep since each of these will continue to draw attention to the areas which MLB needs to fix.
Mordred
10-22-09, 01:02 PM
Now I've been to CBP and think the baseball fan element in Philly is far different than the football fan element, but most fans outside Philly don't know that.I haven't been to either, but I actually like the Phillies whereas I'd root for the Patriots over the Eagles. The fanbases between the two sports seem completely different.
Wow. That is so much different than any other major city. -rolleyes-
Red Dog
10-22-09, 03:00 PM
I knew you'd appreciate it. :)
Dave7393
10-22-09, 03:02 PM
I can't even imagine a Mets fan watching this series. Who would they cheer for? :lol:
I'm a Mets fan, but I never really understood the "Yankee hater" (or "Met hater," on the other side) mentality. I'm mostly indifferent towards the Yanks-- they're not my time, so why should I care? But it is my city, so I do like the energy of the Series being here, but whether they win or lose doesn't affect me at all. I'm certainly not going to root for the Phillies-- I can't ever see any fan rooting in the Series for the divisional champion that beat your team in the regular season (no matter who they're playing against).
Mets fans do have something to look forward to if the Yanks win the Series (IF they're in it, ofcourse. How soon some of us forget 2004). If the Yanks win, I won't have to hear 5 months of Yankees fans pissing and moaning about not winning.... again. Shit, we Mets fans know that our team sucks. If it's one thing we don't have as Mets fans, it's that feeling of our team being entitled to the championship every year. :lol:
Deftones
10-22-09, 07:00 PM
article on ESPN that MLB is only going to put veteran umps in the WS after all the blown calls in the ALCS/NLCS. good move, imho. sure veteran umps still blow calls, but they seem to be few and far between.
VinVega
10-22-09, 07:02 PM
article on ESPN that MLB is only going to put veteran umps in the WS after all the blown calls in the ALCS/NLCS. good move, imho. sure veteran umps still blow calls, but they seem to be few and far between.
But a veteran ump blew two of the calls in game 4. It doesn't make much sense what's going on with the bad umpiring.
Deftones
10-22-09, 07:05 PM
But a veteran ump blew two of the calls in game 4. It doesn't make much sense what's going on with the bad umpiring.
overall, if you look at the blown calls throughout the series, they've mostly been from newer umps, not experienced umpires. again, not saying the experienced ones don't blow calls, but the frequency is less according to mlb. :shrug:
whotony
10-22-09, 07:10 PM
Wow. That is so much different than any other major city. -rolleyes-
True it really isn't and there isn't anything in those videos that is all that bad.
there wasn't a riot and apparently no one really got hurt.
One funny thing I saw on the news was a huge mosh pit at a big intersection in Philly.
the worst thing happening was people crashing into each other on purpose, not fighting or even a threat of a fight.
The female anchor on the broadcast was threatening that even the police use their video and all these people who are fighting will eventually be caught and arrested because of their video showing the fighting.
then the other on air guy told her that it wasn't a fight but something like a huge mosh pit of people intentionally jumping into each other with no fighting at all.
She quickly moved away from the discussion.
also I don't know what the middle video is because it doesn't work.
Red Dog
10-22-09, 07:15 PM
There's an old saying....."act like you've been there." Food for thought for fans of the defending champions, particularly with 4 more wins necessary. ;)
cardsfan111
10-22-09, 07:25 PM
JumpCutz has the Angels fired up tonight!
whotony
10-22-09, 09:27 PM
There's an old saying....."act like you've been there." Food for thought for fans of the defending champions, particularly with 4 more wins necessary. ;)
I wasn't out there running around but anytime a Philly team has this success at this point in a season I'm going to enjoy it all the way.
truth is other then last year we haven't been there all that much so
I won't apologize for excessive behavior.
CRM114
10-22-09, 10:41 PM
Maybe this thread is jinxing the Yankees. :)
coli
10-22-09, 10:43 PM
Maybe this thread is jinxing the Yankees. :)
Was there a thread back in 2004, Yankees vs Cardinals Official WS Thread?
;)
Goat3001
10-23-09, 06:18 AM
overall, if you look at the blown calls throughout the series, they've mostly been from newer umps, not experienced umpires. again, not saying the experienced ones don't blow calls, but the frequency is less according to mlb. :shrug:
At this point this is the best they can do anyway. Yeah, it was McLeland, one of the most experienced umps they have that made the biggest blown calls but in a pinch they're the ones you need to trust.
Bus I can't really see what that is supposed to be but what's it have to do with the World Series and a possible/probable Phils Yanks match up?
Tarantino
10-23-09, 09:46 PM
This is going to be a boring, awful World Series.
That being said, I probably won't watch any of this, but I hope that the Yankees lose.
whotony
10-23-09, 09:49 PM
why the need to tell everyone you won't watch?
If the Phils and Yanks are boring what would be not boring.
Or by boring do you mean whatever team you like won't be participating?
sleepyhead55
10-24-09, 12:36 AM
I think it'll be an interesting World Series. I'll be rooting for Philly but I really hope that Hamels pitches a lot better than he did in the NLCS. If Anaheim wins tomorrow does it benefit Philly in any way (rotation setup, avoiding Sabbathia in Game 1 etc)?
JumpCutz
10-24-09, 12:45 AM
I really hope that Hamels pitches a lot better than he did in the NLCS.
He's pretty much the key for the Phillies to have any chance.
Tarantino
10-24-09, 02:14 AM
why the need to tell everyone you won't watch?
If the Phils and Yanks are boring what would be not boring.
Or by boring do you mean whatever team you like won't be participating?
I guess I just hope it's a <i>good</i> World Series, because for the last 5 or so years, it's been very lopsided in the Fall Classic (meaning sweeps or 4-1).
The last good WS were back in '01 and '02, where games were coming down to the wire.
Usually, there are some dramatics in the ALCS and NLCS, but this year the playoffs have been really stale, with no intense rivalries that I care about.
And no, not meaning that my team isn't in it...as a Pirates fan, I'll probably never see my favorite teams in a World Series, so that isn't it.
whotony
10-24-09, 04:04 PM
ok I see your point.
It has been that league championship series have almost always been more exciting then the WS.
I've read that many players feel the WS is anti-climactic and that the real pressure is LCS rounds.
CRM114
10-24-09, 11:59 PM
This is going to be a boring, awful World Series.
That being said, I probably won't watch any of this, but I hope that the Yankees lose.
Yeah, no stars, no power, no pitching. Awful.
Fandango
10-25-09, 12:29 AM
I think it'll be an interesting World Series. I'll be rooting for Philly but I really hope that Hamels pitches a lot better than he did in the NLCS. If Anaheim wins tomorrow does it benefit Philly in any way (rotation setup, avoiding Sabbathia in Game 1 etc)?
If Anaheim can force a game 7 Sabathia will not be able to pitch game 1 and will likely only be able to start 2 games in the WS so you can bet the Phillies are rooting for the Angels.
JumpCutz
10-25-09, 10:47 PM
Yeah so I'm three outs early.
Here's to a classic series. :toast:
Red Dog
10-25-09, 10:49 PM
Who's the dog? I'm betting them. Hopefully it's +140 or more.
whotony
10-25-09, 10:53 PM
Who's the dog? I'm betting them. Hopefully it's +140 or more.
them?
whotony
10-25-09, 11:02 PM
this will be a fun WS.
bunkaroo
10-25-09, 11:05 PM
Can't say I'm much of a Yankees fan, but I really have no interest in the Phillies or seeing them repeat, and since my team is AL, I'll say Yanks in 5.
VinVega
10-25-09, 11:13 PM
Yanks win the ALCS in 6 games. CC will pitch game one at Yankee Stadium. As of 10/26, this thread is now official. ;)
RayChuang
10-25-09, 11:47 PM
Before the World Series begins, we'll have to fend off all those Yankee haters out there coming out of the woodwork. -rolleyes-
dolphinboy
10-26-09, 02:15 AM
I predict the Phillies will win in 5.
jPoD_TGN
10-26-09, 03:23 AM
Let's do it again!!!!!!!!! :)
coli
10-26-09, 05:35 AM
If the Phils can take Game 1 or Game 2, I think they have a real shot at winning the series. If the Yanks take the first 2 games at home, I would give them the edge.
I am a Phils fan, but I will say Yanks in 7.
Luds
10-26-09, 07:21 AM
Yeah, no stars, no power, no pitching. Awful.
http://goingconcern.com/two%20thumbs%20up.jpeg
CRM114
10-26-09, 08:19 AM
REPEAT!
Hopefully, the Phils can light up Sabathia like last year!
Quack
10-26-09, 09:28 AM
I can finally come into this thread....Go Yankees!!!
CRM114
10-26-09, 09:51 AM
Why to root for Phillies (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=4584376&sportCat=mlb)
Reason No. 11 -- Confessions
Admitted PED users on the Yankees: two. Admitted PED users on the Phillies: zero.
:lol:
mphtrilogy
10-26-09, 12:56 PM
Yankees in 6
bootsy
10-26-09, 02:04 PM
I say the Phillies in 5 or 6. The way the Yankees looked in that Angels series at times leaves me with not a lot of confidence facing a team with a better offense and better pitching than the Angels.
scott1598
10-26-09, 02:13 PM
I say the Phillies in 5 or 6. The way the Yankees looked in that Angels series at times leaves me with not a lot of confidence facing a team with a better offense and better pitching than the Angels.
Yankees have always had trouble with the Angels. i think they just have this curse with them, but they fought it off finally and i think will do much better with the Phills. still wil be a hard fought battle and should make for another great series. good thing CC and AJ can hit a bit coming from Nat League when they get to Philly and even then they might only need CC to hit -pray-.
cardsfan111
10-26-09, 02:30 PM
^ It's true that Sabathia can really rake at the plate. He tore it up as a member of the Brewers, if I recall.
Looked it up: 96 Plate Appearances, .261 BA, 3 HRs. (career numbers including interleague games as an Indian) :up:
bootsy
10-26-09, 02:55 PM
Yankees have always had trouble with the Angels. i think they just have this curse with them, but they fought it off finally and i think will do much better with the Phills. still wil be a hard fought battle and should make for another great series. good thing CC and AJ can hit a bit coming from Nat League when they get to Philly and even then they might only need CC to hit -pray-.
It's not really about the history it's about how quickly each team dispatched their opponents. The Phillies didn't mess around with the Dodgers. When they had them down they finished them off. The Yanks needed mistakes and errors to beat the Angels. I definitely would not dismiss Philly like you are doing. That team once they get on a roll they will run you over and with the shakiness of the middle relief for the Yankees that is not a good sign.
CRM114
10-26-09, 03:02 PM
Head to head this season:
Phillies 7-3 Burnett vs Myers
Yankees 5-4 Pettitte vs Happ
Phillies 4-3 in 11 Sabathia vs Hamels
Game 2 was a blown save by Lidge.
CRM114
10-26-09, 03:07 PM
Another interesting tidbit:
"Cliff Lee faced Sabathia in the first regular-season game played at new Yankee Stadium, giving up one run over six innings in a 10-2 Indians victory on April 16. Sabathia went 5 2/3, allowing one run before the bullpen imploded. "
Goat3001
10-26-09, 03:18 PM
Another interesting tidbit:
"Cliff Lee faced Sabathia in the first regular-season game played at new Yankee Stadium, giving up one run over six innings in a 10-2 Indians victory on April 16. Sabathia went 5 2/3, allowing one run before the bullpen imploded. "
I remember that game. It was an afternoon game and I was just getting out of work and the game was close. I had been following on MLB.com and from when I closed MLB.com to the time I got in my car (about 10 maybe 15 mintues), the bullpen had had given up 9 runs thanks to Jose Veras. :lol:
But either way, neither this tidbit nor your head to head comparasions mean anything.
wildcatlh
10-26-09, 03:28 PM
Head to head this season:
Phillies 7-3 Burnett vs Myers
Yankees 5-4 Pettitte vs Happ
Phillies 4-3 in 11 Sabathia vs Hamels
Game 2 was a blown save by Lidge.
Game 3 was also a blown save by Lidge, but the Phillies managed to win it in the 11th anyways.
It's going to be a good series. I'm personally enjoying everyone underestimating the Phillies here. I'm going Phillies in 6. Everyone (well, maybe not Feliz) in the lineup is dangerous and can hurt you with their bat. They've got the most AL-like lineup and DH possibilities (which will likely be Ben Francisco in LF and Raul Ibanez at DH) of any team in the NL (it's important to have a player with DH experience, versus the "4 pinch hits a game" type). Strength at the top of the rotation and no real glaring weakness (and 3 members of the rotation have significant AL experience).
cardsfan111
10-26-09, 03:31 PM
It's not really about the history it's about how quickly each team dispatched their opponents. The Phillies didn't mess around with the Dodgers. When they had them down they finished them off. The Yanks needed mistakes and errors to beat the Angels. I definitely would not dismiss Philly like you are doing. That team once they get on a roll they will run you over and with the shakiness of the middle relief for the Yankees that is not a good sign.
I've got no dog in this fight, but it sounds like you're shortchanging the Yankees much like you're accusing the Yankees fans of doing to the Phils. Both teams took care of their LCS opponents in the same fashion. The only games either team lost were close contests. The Phils and Yanks each blew out the other team and won a couple of nail-biters.
Honestly, I have no idea how this series will play out. I can actually envision either side with a break or two winning in 5 games. Or it may go to the late innings of game 7.
coli
10-26-09, 03:47 PM
It's not really about the history it's about how quickly each team dispatched their opponents. The Phillies didn't mess around with the Dodgers. When they had them down they finished them off. The Yanks needed mistakes and errors to beat the Angels. I definitely would not dismiss Philly like you are doing. That team once they get on a roll they will run you over and with the shakiness of the middle relief for the Yankees that is not a good sign.
I am a Phils fan, but I think the Angels are a much better team then the Dodgers. I just think overall that the AL is a much better league then the NL.
I am not underestimating my Phils, as I would not be shocked if they won this series, but if I had to put money on it, I would take the Yankees, simply for two reasons: They have a chance of throwing Sabbathia 3 times, and Pettite 2 times, that means the Phils must face a lefty 5 times in 7 games, and they are definitely better against righties. And Rivera is a stud, and I think if one of the relievers is going to blow a game, its going to be Lidge.
But thats why they play the games.....:)
VinVega
10-26-09, 03:56 PM
I'm not making any predictions, but the puffed out chests on both fans' sides are enjoyable to watch. :lol:
B.A.
10-26-09, 03:59 PM
Go Phils.
:beer:
JasonF
10-26-09, 05:42 PM
Go Yankees. But this should be the best WS in quite a few years -- two great teams going head to head.
scott1598
10-26-09, 05:48 PM
Another meaningless interesting tidbit:
"Cliff Lee faced Sabathia in the first regular-season game played at new Yankee Stadium, giving up one run over six innings in a 10-2 Indians victory on April 16. Sabathia went 5 2/3, allowing one run before the bullpen imploded. "
anything prior to the all-star break means absolutely nothing as the Yanks were a completely different team beyond. in fact anything in the regular season means nothing when it comes to playoffs for any team.
look up all the stats you want and compare them as much as you want. it is the World Series and neither team will be a lock or have any distinct advantage. it is truly the best from each league this year and will be one hell of a series and good luck to all!
CRM114
10-26-09, 09:24 PM
I just posted the facts. Relax. Seems the Yankees fans are getting testy having to play the defending World Champions. ;)
whotony
10-26-09, 09:25 PM
I just hope it's a fun series.
the teams are really close I think and this coul go to either team.
To hard to predict, I just hope the phils win.
raven56706
10-26-09, 09:31 PM
Phillies are playing a different Yankee team...
bootsy
10-26-09, 09:42 PM
I've got no dog in this fight, but it sounds like you're shortchanging the Yankees much like you're accusing the Yankees fans of doing to the Phils. Both teams took care of their LCS opponents in the same fashion. The only games either team lost were close contests. The Phils and Yanks each blew out the other team and won a couple of nail-biters.
Honestly, I have no idea how this series will play out. I can actually envision either side with a break or two winning in 5 games. Or it may go to the late innings of game 7.
I don't care who wins either but I am going by the eyeball test. The Phillies have lost 1 game on the road in the playoffs so far. They have won both of their elimination games and have looked dominant in their wins for the most part. On the other hand the Yankees have blown leads late, bullpen looks shaky, no clutch hitting outside of Arod, needed miracle 9th inning rally's in one game each in the division and championship series. To me the Phillies have a better offense than the Yankees. The starting pitching is probably even. I might give a slight edge to the Yankees and the bullpen goes to the Phillies even with Rivera. Getting to Rivera is the problem for the Yankees so far.
bootsy
10-26-09, 09:43 PM
Phillies are playing a different Yankee team...
So are the Yankees
bootsy
10-26-09, 09:46 PM
I am a Phils fan, but I think the Angels are a much better team then the Dodgers. I just think overall that the AL is a much better league then the NL.
I am not underestimating my Phils, as I would not be shocked if they won this series, but if I had to put money on it, I would take the Yankees, simply for two reasons: They have a chance of throwing Sabbathia 3 times, and Pettite 2 times, that means the Phils must face a lefty 5 times in 7 games, and they are definitely better against righties. And Rivera is a stud, and I think if one of the relievers is going to blow a game, its going to be Lidge.
But thats why they play the games.....:)
The Phillies have beaten Sabathia before and badly too. To me it's how you approach Sabathia. He likes to get over early in the count and that is where the Phillies could possibly take advantage. I'm still not a believer in Sabathia. The Angels and Twins were weak hitting teams, now this will be a real test for him.
coli
10-26-09, 10:22 PM
Phillies are playing a different Yankee team...
I think both teams are different if you are referring to the series from May.
Phils: Cliff Lee and Pedro weren't on the team then. Brad Lidge was a mess, now I don't know if he back to 2008 form, but he is better then he was at any point this season. Jimmy Rollins was hitting .200 when he faced the Yanks in May. And the Phils have a right handed bat in Ben Francisco (who they got in the Cliff Lee trade) for the DH, when they were using Chris Coste in May.
zekeburger1979
10-26-09, 10:51 PM
The only thing I know for sure it that it's going to be torture for this Indians fan to watch Cliff Lee AND C.C. Sabathia duel on Wednesday night.
cardsfan111
10-26-09, 11:01 PM
^ With the offenses of both teams, it wouldn't be completely unexpected if both starters got touched up a bit. Perhaps that would make it a little more bearable.
KingSmoth
10-27-09, 12:29 AM
I discounted the Phillies last year against the Rays, and won't make that mistake again. However, I still think the Yankees will prevail. I would love to see this Series draw out to Game 7.
wirefan
10-27-09, 02:00 AM
They've got the most AL-like lineup and DH possibilities (which will likely be Ben Francisco in LF and Raul Ibanez at DH) of any team in the NL (it's important to have a player with DH experience, versus the "4 pinch hits a game" type).
Yeah because the Dodgers putting Thome at DH would have been a great unknown. -ohbfrank-
You do realize Ibanez was a LF with the Mariners and not a DH? (Last 3 seasons in SEA in LF - 157, 135, 153games. He played in maybe 20 games combined over those 3 years as a PH/DH)
Fantastic analysis on the DH aspect. You do realize if it is important (as you suggest) that a player have "DH experience" the Phils have no player on their roster like that. :lol:
coli
10-27-09, 05:49 AM
If this series can be as great as the 2001 World Series, then I will be happy. Sure I want my Phils to win, but they won last year, so I won't be too mad if they lose. I think the Phils have garnered alot of respect around the league for just getting back to the WS, as it is so hard to do these days.
Plus if the Yankees win, I have told my Yankee friends I am going to say that they bought this Championship;)
Goat3001
10-27-09, 08:04 AM
The Phillies have beaten Sabathia before and badly too. To me it's how you approach Sabathia. He likes to get over early in the count and that is where the Phillies could possibly take advantage. I'm still not a believer in Sabathia. The Angels and Twins were weak hitting teams, now this will be a real test for him.
Your arguments are very one sided and it looks like you're just going ahead and favoring the Phillies.
Yes, the Phils have beaten Sabathia... but the Sabathia they faced last season in the NLDS was pitching his 4th consecutive game on 3 days rest. This time CC is red hot and pitching on extra rest. Sabathia pitched well against them earlier this season too.
The Angels are a weak hitting team? This the same team that was second in the majors in runs scored this year (behind the Yankees) and the same team that swept the Red Sox aside in the ALDS. Give credit where credit is due and that's to the Yankee starters for shutting down the Angels.
You do realize that the Angels had the second most wins in the majors with 97 and played in the tougher American League, right? That doesn't happen by mistake. The Angels were a very good team.
CRM114
10-27-09, 08:14 AM
The Rays "cast aside" Boston last year too. Boston means nothing. And with 2 of the last 3 World Series going to the NL, the "tougher" argument is debatable.
Goat3001
10-27-09, 08:33 AM
The Rays "cast aside" Boston last year too. Boston means nothing. And with 2 of the last 3 World Series going to the NL, the "tougher" argument is debatable.
1. You can't judge which is the better league based on the World Series. It's too small of a sample size. It's like saying the AL is better because they've won the last few All Star games.
Edit: This is a better gauge. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/11786188
2. The Rays didn't cast aside Boston last year. That series was a tough fought 7 games. Besdies, that was last year. Boston certainly means something this year. They finished with 95 wins and were a top 3 AL team heading into the postseason. The Angels sweeping them was impressive.
CRM114
10-27-09, 09:08 AM
Interleague is meaningless. The teams don't care and there is no control for the DH/ballpark factor.
And the WS is a better indicator than the All Star game. C'mon. It's the best NL team vs the best AL team. If the AL was more dominant, then they should have no problem with the NL after going through the gauntlet of AL challengers.
For the record, the Dodgers "cast aside" the Cardinals who many had as their WS pick.
coli
10-27-09, 09:44 AM
It's impossible to compare leagues, because one is setup with the DH in their lineup, and the other is not.
If the Phillies were in the AL they would have never traded Jim Thome when they brought up Ryan Howard, and just moved him to DH. Can you imagine Utley-Howard-Thome?
But because stupid Baseball has different rules in each league, you can't compare. AL Pitchers have to pitch to 9 good hitters, NL pitchers have to pitch to 8. So of course NL pitchers will have lower ERA's.
A few weeks ago I looked back at the WS winners since the inception of the DH, and it was almost 50/50.
starman9000
10-27-09, 09:52 AM
These are the best two teams in each league. That's all that matters.
All I know is the curse of Chris Coste is going to haunt the Phillies this year.
The Cow
10-27-09, 09:58 AM
It's impossible to compare leagues, because one is setup with the DH in their lineup, and the other is not.
It's easy to compare, you already did the simple case.
A few weeks ago I looked back at the WS winners since the inception of the DH, and it was almost 50/50.
Throw in the interleague play and there you go.
chrisih8u
10-27-09, 10:29 AM
Interleague is meaningless. The teams don't care and there is no control for the DH/ballpark factor.
And the WS is a better indicator than the All Star game. C'mon. It's the best NL team vs the best AL team. If the AL was more dominant, then they should have no problem with the NL after going through the gauntlet of AL challengers.
For the record, the Dodgers "cast aside" the Cardinals who many had as their WS pick.
The teams don't care? :lol:
CRM114
10-27-09, 10:43 AM
About interleague play? Not really.
chrisih8u
10-27-09, 10:58 AM
About interleague play? Not really.
It is a regular season game. Of course they care.
LickTheABCs
10-27-09, 11:02 AM
I'm just glad we have this match up, so I can read more articles like this (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/the_frillies_are_coming_to_town_mnrbqD4sqsEKH10TfB3k6H).
I mean, really? rotfl
CRM114
10-27-09, 11:05 AM
It is a regular season game. Of course they care.
You can choose to believe that players give equal weight to division games and interleague games.
CRM114
10-27-09, 11:06 AM
Isn't every American city "second rate" to New York? :lol:
starman9000
10-27-09, 11:06 AM
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia > Friends!
chrisih8u
10-27-09, 11:16 AM
You can choose to believe that players give equal weight to division games and interleague games.
:lol: Yeah, I will believe that. You can keep thinking players don't care, dont give any effort, and thus the overwhelming head to head statistics are misleading. Yeah, Interleague play only matters in October..and only in two of the last three years. rotfl
cardsfan111
10-27-09, 11:48 AM
This is turning into one of the more hotly contested World Series and the games haven't even started yet. :lol:
I think we should all agree that there's no way to tell how the next 2 weeks will play out. In fact, no matter the outcome, one could still argue over whether the Yankees/Phillies are the better team. It all comes down to who plays the best during these next few games. I'm anxious to tune in...both to see the outcome, and to make sure Fox gets decent ratings so the series doesn't end up on TBS in the near future.
Goat3001
10-27-09, 12:02 PM
I'm just glad we have this match up, so I can read more articles like this (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/the_frillies_are_coming_to_town_mnrbqD4sqsEKH10TfB3k6H).
I mean, really? rotfl
Boy that's embarassing. At least no one takes the Post seriously.
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia > Friends!
Seinfeld > It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia ;)
Goat3001
10-27-09, 12:10 PM
You can choose to believe that players give equal weight to division games and interleague games.
This coming from the same person that has brought up the Yankees/Phillies head to head match up multiple times before to decide which is the better team.
starman9000
10-27-09, 12:38 PM
Seinfeld > It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia ;)
Damn, good point. Then again, 'Boy Meets World' was the greatest work of art in history.
CRM114
10-27-09, 01:04 PM
:lol: Yeah, I will believe that. You can keep thinking players don't care, dont give any effort, and thus the overwhelming head to head statistics are misleading. Yeah, Interleague play only matters in October..and only in two of the last three years. rotfl
Interesting that you pick the "don't care" part out but leave out the "control for the DH." The NL doesn't have AL envy. And October IS all that matters in the end. (I guess not when the Red Sox are at home, right?)
CRM114
10-27-09, 01:07 PM
This coming from the same person that has brought up the Yankees/Phillies head to head match up multiple times before to decide which is the better team.
You Yankee fans keep falling back on that. I bring up FACTUAL ANALYSIS of the Series and you guys cry about it. I've heard about 6 excuses already.
You guys are inventing this theory that because I brought up the head-to-head (how dare HE!) it means I am implying the Phils are better. No, I'm implying that Phils won two of three in Yankee Stadium. If you want to get an inferiority complex about that simple statement, be my guest. I suppose we cannot raise any points about lineups or pitchers either.
And actually, if you revisit the post in question, it was after someone brought up that the Phils were probably the only team capable of knocking the Yankees out. Doesn't mean they are better. The series will decide that.
chrisih8u
10-27-09, 01:12 PM
Interesting that you pick the "don't care" part out but leave out the "control for the DH." The NL doesn't have AL envy. And October IS all that matters in the end. (I guess not when the Red Sox are at home, right?)
Because the excuse that the players dont really care about winning interleague games is so ludicrous that it deserved its own post.
And why do you bring up your FACTUAL ANALYSIS of the previous Yankee/Philly matchup if neither team were trying?
coli
10-27-09, 01:13 PM
Baseball and Hockey are the two sports where upsets are much more prevailent in the playoffs. In Hockey you get a hot goalie who can ride you to the cup. In Baseball you get a hot pitcher that can do the same. Just look back at the past 15 years with the team who had the best regular season record, I think it is only a handful won the WS. The Cubs and Angels had the 2 best records last year, gone in the division round.
Orel Hersheiser is a perfect example of a team playing the spoiler as he literally carried the Dodgers to the '88 title. Are you telling me that Dodgers team was better then the '88 A's with Canseco, Eck, McGwire, Stewart? It's pitching that always wins in Baseball, and both teams have great pitching, so I see this going 7 games, with the Yanks getting the nod because Rivera is more reliable then Lidge at this point.
The Bus
10-27-09, 01:33 PM
I don't care who wins, as long as the Yankees lose.
The Bus
10-27-09, 01:35 PM
I'm just glad we have this match up, so I can read more articles like this (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/the_frillies_are_coming_to_town_mnrbqD4sqsEKH10TfB3k6H).
Because the excuse that the players dont really care about winning interleague games is so ludicrous that it deserved its own post.
And why do you bring up your FACTUAL ANALYSIS of the previous Yankee/Philly matchup if neither team were trying?
Because its a fact. Is this the first time you've ever considered head-to-head matchups in a series? :lol:
CRM114
10-27-09, 01:41 PM
Pedro Martinez will start Game 2 of the World Series at Yankee Stadium, Phillies manager Charlie Manuel said Tuesday on Philadelphia radio station WPHT-AM. * (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4598313)
cardsfan111
10-27-09, 01:44 PM
^ Noticed that, and I'm excited about that subplot in the WS. I also know that I'll be tired about that subplot after hearing Fox, Buck and McCarver drool all over it on Thursday night.
chrisih8u
10-27-09, 01:48 PM
Because its a fact. Is this the first time you've ever considered head-to-head matchups in a series? :lol:
It is also a fact that the AL has dominated the NL during interleague play. Yet you chalk it up to the players not caring. Except the Philly/NY series, that is.
RoyalTea
10-27-09, 01:51 PM
what's the average BAC going to be of a Philadelphian on Sunday?
Giants-Iggles at the Linc at 1 pm, Game 4 of Yankees-Phillies at CBP at 8:20. How will Philly phans pass the four hours between games?
CRM114
10-27-09, 01:59 PM
It is also a fact that the AL has dominated the NL during interleague play. Yet you chalk it up to the players not caring. Except the Philly/NY series, that is.
Again, please control the DH nonsense in your findings. And the Phillies dominated the Rays. But there was a control in place. 2 games there. 3 games here. Get it? Unless you are going to break down the interleague play series by series acknowledging the standings of the teams and what rules they were playing under, it is not an indicator by itself of league strength.
Goat3001
10-27-09, 02:17 PM
what's the average BAC going to be of a Philadelphian on Sunday?
Giants-Iggles at the Linc at 1 pm, Game 4 of Yankees-Phillies at CBP at 8:20. How will Philly phans pass the four hours between games?
Didn't know Giants/Eagles was this weekend too. Great day for the *new* Philly/New York rivalry.
chrisih8u
10-27-09, 02:23 PM
Again, please control the DH nonsense in your findings. And the Phillies dominated the Rays. But there was a control in place. 2 games there. 3 games here. Get it? Unless you are going to break down the interleague play series by series acknowledging the standings of the teams and what rules they were playing under, it is not an indicator by itself of league strength.
Oh, I get now. Only the Phillies were trying to win during interleague play.
bootsy
10-27-09, 02:29 PM
Your arguments are very one sided and it looks like you're just going ahead and favoring the Phillies.
Yes, the Phils have beaten Sabathia... but the Sabathia they faced last season in the NLDS was pitching his 4th consecutive game on 3 days rest. This time CC is red hot and pitching on extra rest. Sabathia pitched well against them earlier this season too.
The Angels are a weak hitting team? This the same team that was second in the majors in runs scored this year (behind the Yankees) and the same team that swept the Red Sox aside in the ALDS. Give credit where credit is due and that's to the Yankee starters for shutting down the Angels.
You do realize that the Angels had the second most wins in the majors with 97 and played in the tougher American League, right? That doesn't happen by mistake. The Angels were a very good team.
We'll see about Sabathia. I have never been a huge Sabathia fan. I think if you approach him the right way you can knock him all over the place.
And yes I know the Angels won 97 games in a the tougher league. That's not my point. The Angels were weak hitting compared to the Phillies. The only person in the Angels lineup to fear was Vlad. The rest of that lineup doesn't strike fear in anyone especially in the cold and in the playoffs. Again you are going by stats I am going by what I am seeing throughout these playoffs. The Phillies offense has been much better than the Angels AND Yankees. I will give the Yankees pitchers credit when they actually shut down a good offensive team and not some team that got fat beating up on the Rangers, Mariners and Athletics.
Goat3001
10-27-09, 02:32 PM
You Yankee fans keep falling back on that. I bring up FACTUAL ANALYSIS of the Series and you guys cry about it. I've heard about 6 excuses already.
You guys are inventing this theory that because I brought up the head-to-head (how dare HE!) it means I am implying the Phils are better. No, I'm implying that Phils won two of three in Yankee Stadium. If you want to get an inferiority complex about that simple statement, be my guest. I suppose we cannot raise any points about lineups or pitchers either.
And actually, if you revisit the post in question, it was after someone brought up that the Phils were probably the only team capable of knocking the Yankees out. Doesn't mean they are better. The series will decide that.
No I'm just trying to figure out what you're really talking about. First you say that the Phillies are the only team capable of knocking off the Yankees (I agree with this considering the 4 teams left when the statement was made) and you cited nothing behind your reasoning except for the 3 game series in June.
Then you say that interleague is meaningless to the teams playing and isn't a fair indicator of which league is better.
So how is your FACTUAL ANALYSIS noteworthy at all when you're clearly going back and forth to whatever supports your argument at the time?
I suppose we cannot raise any points about lineups or pitchers either.
Maybe if you did that you'd get better responses.
zuffy
10-27-09, 02:36 PM
Obviously, pitching will help you win the champion and I think both teams has that. If the Yankees have a shitty RISP like they did in the ALDS and ALCS, they are screwed. I think the Phillies RISP was in the .300's against the Dodgers.
whotony
10-27-09, 02:37 PM
These are the best two teams in each league. That's all that matters.
All I know is the curse of Chris Coste is going to haunt the Phillies this year.
What?
Oh, I get now. Only the Phillies were trying to win during interleague play.
Not that Chris is insulting anyone but....
Why does discussion of who will win always cause people to be nasty
to each other.
It isn't personal because it has nothing to do with us.
we just watch the games and hope our favorite team wins.
If the Yanks win they are better then the Phils this week.
So what, doesn't mean the people watching the games are better.
So why does it always have to become an insult competition for some people?
CRM114
10-27-09, 02:40 PM
Oh, I get now. Only the Phillies were trying to win during interleague play.
You're a genius! YES!
chrisih8u
10-27-09, 02:41 PM
Again you are going by stats I am going by what I am seeing throughout these playoffs. The Phillies offense has been much better than the Angels AND Yankees. I will give the Yankees pitchers credit when they actually shut down a good offensive team and not some team that got fat beating up on the Rangers, Mariners and Athletics.
Watch more games.
CRM114
10-27-09, 02:42 PM
No I'm just trying to figure out what you're really talking about. First you say that the Phillies are the only team capable of knocking off the Yankees (I agree with this considering the 4 teams left when the statement was made) and you cited nothing behind your reasoning except for the 3 game series in June.
Then you say that interleague is meaningless to the teams playing and isn't a fair indicator of which league is better.
So how is your FACTUAL ANALYSIS noteworthy at all when you're clearly going back and forth to whatever supports your argument at the time?
Maybe if you did that you'd get better responses.
OK, we won't talk of the head-to-head matchup any more. Happy? Jesus.
huh?
10-27-09, 02:44 PM
I'm excited to see Pedro pitch game two. As mentioned earlier, FOX will beat this into the ground until I want to kill myself, but it is at least an interesting subplot. Will the NY fans chant "Who's your Daddy?"
starman9000
10-27-09, 02:46 PM
What?
I'm just bitter that they traded away the only athlete of note from my school. I would have liked to see him get another shot in the WS, not that he would have been playing this time around. :)
chrisih8u
10-27-09, 02:47 PM
I'm excited to see Pedro pitch game two. As mentioned earlier, FOX will beat this into the ground until I want to kill myself, but it is at least an interesting subplot. Will the NY fans chant "Who's your Daddy?"
Yes, they will. And he will respond with 15 Ks in a complete game shutout to put the Phils up 2-0. :up::D
Goat3001
10-27-09, 02:55 PM
I'm excited to see Pedro pitch game two. As mentioned earlier, FOX will beat this into the ground until I want to kill myself, but it is at least an interesting subplot. Will the NY fans chant "Who's your Daddy?"
I hope it gets to that point. The Yankees owned Pedro when he was Pedro, now he's a soft throwing rightie pitching in Yankee Stadium to a line up full of lefties.
I like this match up as much as Phillie fans do.
whotony
10-27-09, 02:56 PM
I'm just bitter that they traded away the only athlete of note from my school. I would have liked to see him get another shot in the WS, not that he would have been playing this time around. :)
Oh, so you put a curse on the Phils.
A better idea would have been to put a blessing(opposite of curse?) on him so he could hit a baseball and throw out a runner.
other then that he was a nice guy and somehow became a fan favorite around here.
huh?
10-27-09, 02:57 PM
Yes, they will. And he will respond with 15 Ks in a complete game shutout to put the Phils up 2-0. :up::D
hahaha. that would be awesome. never going to happen, but we can dream...
wirefan
10-27-09, 02:57 PM
Again, please control the DH nonsense in your findings. And the Phillies dominated the Rays. But there was a control in place. 2 games there. 3 games here. Get it? Unless you are going to break down the interleague play series by series acknowledging the standings of the teams and what rules they were playing under, it is not an indicator by itself of league strength.
Please control your DH nonsense - to put the overall record on the DH when 1/2 the games are played without a DH is utterly laughable. Also you ignore the disadvantage of AL teams having pitchers who may have never hit before in NL parks. While having a bench player serving as a DH might not be the same as a team with a full time DH - you make it sound as if it is some massive disadvantage.... :lol:
Basically, there were only 5 teams in the NL that got poor performance from the DH spot and the rest hit over .265 and got decent run production... where again is this disadvantage?
Perhaps if you look at the league averages?
AL .255, NL .276 Slugging and OPS are also higher for NL DH's
I'm sorry where is this DH disadvantage? And how does it account for the interleague records?
Tommy Ceez
10-27-09, 02:58 PM
Yes, they will. And he will respond with 15 Ks in a complete game shutout to put the Phils up 2-0. :up::D
Pedro IN HIS PRIME would CONSISTENTLY pitch 8.1 Innings, 3 Hits, 2 BB's 1ER, 12 K's in a 1-0 loss against the Yankees
:lol:
In his career, Martinez is 11-11 against the Yankees. His ERA is 3.20 over 32 starts.
starman9000
10-27-09, 03:00 PM
Oh, so you put a curse on the Phils.
A better idea would have been to put a blessing(opposite of curse?) on him so he could hit a baseball and throw out a runner.
other then that he was a nice guy and somehow became a fan favorite around here.
Yeah, it's too bad he got his chance a little late in life. But that allowed him to sell some books I suppose.
And I didn't put a curse on the Phillies, they did it themselves by trading a player they didn't need. I'm sure the curse of Doug Mientkiewicz currently affecting the Yankees will balance things out. :lol:
Just trying to lighten up the tense playoff atmosphere in this thread. ;)
bootsy
10-27-09, 03:03 PM
Watch more games.
You make no sense.
Goat3001
10-27-09, 03:04 PM
We'll see about Sabathia. I have never been a huge Sabathia fan. I think if you approach him the right way you can knock him all over the place.
Oh thanks for figuring out Sabathia. Maybe you should tell all the professionals who have been having trouble doing the same for the past few years.
And yes I know the Angels won 97 games in a the tougher league. That's not my point. The Angels were weak hitting compared to the Phillies. The only person in the Angels lineup to fear was Vlad. The rest of that lineup doesn't strike fear in anyone especially in the cold and in the playoffs. Again you are going by stats I am going by what I am seeing throughout these playoffs. The Phillies offense has been much better than the Angels AND Yankees. I will give the Yankees pitchers credit when they actually shut down a good offensive team and not some team that got fat beating up on the Rangers, Mariners and Athletics.
Watch more games.
What Chris said. Thanks for backing the Yankees on this, Chris. ;)
Goat3001
10-27-09, 03:06 PM
Damn, good point. Then again, 'Boy Meets World' was the greatest work of art in history.
I have no choice but to agree here.
CRM114
10-27-09, 03:07 PM
Oh thanks for figuring out Sabathia. Maybe you should tell all the professionals who have been having trouble doing the same for the past few years.
Maybe we could have Shane Victorino tell them. :shrug: But then again, it's hard to base anything on 3.2 innings.
Goat3001
10-27-09, 03:13 PM
Maybe we could have Shane Victorino tell them. :shrug:
:lol: What's great about this statement is that one of my closest friends is a big time Phillies fan and earlier in the season when CC was struggling I would bitch to him about it and his response was always "Shane Victorino really got in CC's head." Then whenever any Yankee struggled it was because of Shane Victorino. So when Rivera was struggling early in the year or when the Red Sox won 8 straight it was because "Shane Victorino is really in the Yankees head."
This morphed into everyday life and everytime one of us had a bad day/night or failed at picking up a girl or something to that effect it was always because Shane Victorino was in our heads.
CRM114
10-27-09, 03:15 PM
We've learned a few things this week:
1. Sabathia only lost to the Phils last year because he was tired.
2. The Yankees only lost the series to the Phils in May because that was a "different team."
3. The Phillies getting swept by Toronto helps prove the AL is better than the NL. Duh.
CRM114
10-27-09, 03:15 PM
:lol: What's great about this statement is that one of my closest friends is a big time Phillies fan and earlier in the season when CC was struggling I would bitch to him about it and his response was always "Shane Victorino really got in CC's head." Then whenever any Yankee struggled it was because of Shane Victorino. So when Rivera was struggling early in the year or when the Red Sox won 8 straight it was because "Shane Victorino is really in the Yankees head."
This morphed into everyday life and everytime one of us had a bad day/night or failed at picking up a girl or something to that effect it was always because Shane Victorino was in our heads.
:lol:
bootsy
10-27-09, 03:19 PM
Oh thanks for figuring out Sabathia. Maybe you should tell all the professionals who have been having trouble doing the same for the past few years.
What Chris said. Thanks for backing the Yankees on this, Chris. ;)
I think most Major leaguers or "professionals" especially the Phillies already have Yankee homer.
Red Dog
10-27-09, 03:21 PM
Who's the dog? I'm betting them. Hopefully it's +140 or more.
Very surprising. I figured the odds would be much narrower.
Series winner:
Yankees -205
Phillies +175
Goat3001
10-27-09, 03:22 PM
We've learned a few things this week:
1. Sabathia only lost to the Phils last year because he was tired.
2. The Yankees only lost the series to the Phils in May because that was a "different team."
3. The Phillies getting swept by Toronto helps prove the AL is better than the NL. Duh.
1. The sole reason? Probably not. Phillies are a tough team. But you can't disregard the fact that Sabathia was pitching for the 4th consecutive time on 3 days rest. What's funny about this though, is that this has come up a few times along with the head to head series in June, yet you haven't once mentioned how well he pitched earlier in the season against the Phils.
2. No no, the Yankees lost the series because the teams don't care about interleague play.
3. Yes this one single series proves this. But we'll ignore the statistical data of the past few years that show the AL dominating the NL in interleauge play. This one series seals this fact.
bootsy
10-27-09, 03:23 PM
We've learned a few things this week:
1. Sabathia only lost to the Phils last year because he was tired.
2. The Yankees only lost the series to the Phils in May because that was a "different team."
3. The Phillies getting swept by Toronto helps prove the AL is better than the NL. Duh.
I really can't wait for this series. This series reminds me of the Celtics and Lakers in the Finals a couple of years ago when everybody was picking the Lakers because of how easy they dispatched San Antonio even though I was one of the few that could see San Antonio at that time was slow and getting old and the Lakers hadn't face a good defense like the Celtics and the Celtics matched up with them very well. Everybody is on the Yankee bandwagon right now. I don't know what will happen in this series but I think people are overlooking how good the Phillies are.
Goat3001
10-27-09, 03:25 PM
I think most Major leaguers or "professionals" especially the Phillies already have Yankee homer.
What are you missing here? Even Phillies fans know that Sabathia is one of the best pitchers in baseball. You don't win 19 games and put up a sub 3.50 ERA if people have figured out how to hit you.
And if the Phillies have figured him out, please tell me why he pitched 8 innings and gave up 3 runs to them earlier this season?
What's funny is that you call me a Yankee homer but the other person quoting your posts is a Red Sox fan.
bootsy
10-27-09, 03:35 PM
What are you missing here? Even Phillies fans know that Sabathia is one of the best pitchers in baseball. You don't win 19 games and put up a sub 3.50 ERA if people have figured out how to hit you.
And if the Phillies have figured him out, please tell me why he pitched 8 innings and gave up 3 runs to them earlier this season?
What's funny is that you call me a Yankee homer but the other person quoting your posts is a Red Sox fan.
Yeah Sabathia is unhittable. He hasn't ever allowed a hit in his pitching career. Is that better for you. My gosh take your Yankee colored glasses off you are pitiful.
wirefan
10-27-09, 03:35 PM
We've learned a few things this week:
1. Sabathia only lost to the Phils last year because he was tired.
2. The Yankees only lost the series to the Phils in May because that was a "different team."
3. The Phillies getting swept by Toronto helps prove the AL is better than the NL. Duh.
We've also learned a few other things
1. Sabathia pitching on 3 days rest for 3 consecutive games had little effect on how he pitched
2. A less than 7 game sample size is a better measure of OVERALL league strength then say 200 games. :lol:
3. Raul Ibanez apparently has significant DH experience (maybe it was in Japan or winter baseball?) and the Phils are best equipped for the DH spot.
4. Apparently no interleague games were played in NL parks as the interleague record discrepancy is primarily due to DH rules.
5. Seven AB's(and 1 RBI) is a good judge of success of a hitter against a pitcher.
6. Brad Lidge is pitching as well as he has all season based on 4 innings in the postseason.
7. Teams just mail it in when they aren't playing division rivals.
8. Brett Tomko losing a game earlier this year for the Yankees against the Phillies is apparently significant
Wow distorting people's viewpoints into absurdity is fun - can I be called a Phillies fan now? ;)
Goat3001
10-27-09, 03:39 PM
I really can't wait for this series. This series reminds me of the Celtics and Lakers in the Finals a couple of years ago when everybody was picking the Lakers because of how easy they dispatched San Antonio even though I was one of the few that could see San Antonio at that time was slow and getting old and the Lakers hadn't face a good defense like the Celtics and the Celtics matched up with them very well. Everybody is on the Yankee bandwagon right now. I don't know what will happen in this series but I think people are overlooking how good the Phillies are.
Guess what... Don't tell anyone but the Phillies haven't faced a team like the Yankees in the postseason yet either. That's what makes this such a great matchup, it's truly the best from both leagues.
Goat3001
10-27-09, 03:40 PM
Yeah Sabathia is unhittable. He hasn't ever allowed a hit in his pitching career. Is that better for you. My gosh take your Yankee colored glasses off you are pitiful.
:lol:
Man, talk about completely missing the point.
starman9000
10-27-09, 03:40 PM
I think most Major leaguers or "professionals" especially the Phillies already have Yankee homer.
The Phillies already have Yankee homer? What does that mean?
cardsfan111
10-27-09, 03:42 PM
There's so much discussion here that the official WS thread may end up being closed (for length) before the Official WS even starts. :lol:
Quack
10-27-09, 03:47 PM
This is why the Yankees will win and the Phillies will lose....need I say more?
I guess i did because you are all over the place and making no sense. I'm really not I am just so tired of hearing about how dominant Sabathia is when I just don't think the competition has been that great for him yet. If he does it in this series I will give him full props but he's not getting it because he pitched well against the Twins and Angels. Sorry. I saw how he was last year. He pitched well against bad teams and then when he faced the good hitting teams he got knocked all over the yard. That's always been the story with him to me.
wirefan
10-27-09, 04:32 PM
^ It is getting laughable how you now have repeatably called the Angels not good competition. They had the 2nd best record in all of baseball, the 2nd highest runs scored and highest team batting average.
I don't understand how people can make so many generalizations based on such small sample sizes... look at the starting pitching the Angels faced in the postseason (against Boston as well). The Phillies offense might be better but it also may have helped they were going against starters from Colorado (decent, but missing their winningest pitcher) and LA (average at best). Do people realize the Phillies only outhit the Dodgers once in the 5 game series? They won it with good situational hitting and walks (they had 10 runs on just 8 hits in the last game).
Generally speaking that is a good formula in the postseason and I think a lot will depend on how many walks the Yankee starters issue - Sabathia has struggled when he walks people. Burnett is almost always about the walks and Pettitte is usually a 2-3run/6-7IP type of guy unless he's struggling with his control.
Goat3001
10-27-09, 04:57 PM
I guess i did because you are all over the place and making no sense.
Here I'll try to explain it better:
First you come in saying how the you're not impressed with the Yankees because of the way they disposed of the Angels... who you said is a weak hitting team and the only scary player on their team is Vlad. Thusly, you're not impressed with CC because all he did was beat the Twins and light hitting Angels.
Now let's put aside how you've ignored the level of competition that the Phillies have faced so far. Certainly you can't think the Dodgers are better than the Angels, but whatever that's not important.
So, I bring in actual statistics to show you how well CC has done all year and how good the Angels offense is, to show you why I disagree with your stance. Remember, they were second in baseball in runs scored. Even if you take out all the NL teams because of the DH factor, having the second highest run total in the AL means you're a good run scoring team. As for Vlad being the only dangerous hitter in the Angels lineup: Look up Kendry Morales, he'll only finish in the top 5 in MVP voting this year.
But you say that you're ignoring statistics and going by what you saw in the ALCS. Has it crossed your mind that maybe the reason the Angels looked like a weak hitting team was because the Yankee starters were able to shut them down?
This all ties back in with CC because you say he hasn't faced anyone good yet. This is where I disagree. The Angels offense may not be as dangerous as the Phillies offense, but again, you're not a weak hitting team if you finish with the second highest run output in the majors. So CC has certainly faced some tough opposition.
Then you say that the Phillies have figured out CC Sabathia, based soley on one start made a year ago. Yet, you ignore the one start he made a few months ago where he pitched 8 solid innings. You say that he doesn't do well against good teams but all statistics from this year will show you different.
Then you tell me I'm making no sense and that I'm all over the place, yet these are the responses to my posts...
Yeah Sabathia is unhittable. He hasn't ever allowed a hit in his pitching career. Is that better for you. My gosh take your Yankee colored glasses off you are pitiful.
I think most Major leaguers or "professionals" especially the Phillies already have Yankee homer.
Now I'm not trying to say that CC will be dominant against the Phillies tomorrow. They'll be the toughest team he's faced all postseason... but the Yankees are the toughest team that Lee has faced all postseason too. We don't know what's going to happen. Both CC and Lee could get shelled tomorrow and both offenses can put up football scores (I bet Cleveland fans would love that) or one of the teams can lose 1-0. That's why baseball is awesome.
I can understand the frustration because the media is nuthugging CC while not paying attention to Lee who has done just as well, but to say that CC hasn't done anything impressive because the Angels are a light hitting team is just wrong.
starman9000
10-27-09, 05:01 PM
Um Goat, you seem to have forgotten Shane Victorino!
Just saving bootsy and CRM some time. ;)
SonOfAStu
10-27-09, 05:02 PM
can I be called a Phillies fan now? ;)
I'm sorry, you're not retarded enough yet. Your posts are still somewhat based in reality and not the emotional tirade of a 4 year old.
wirefan
10-27-09, 06:27 PM
I'm sorry, you're not retarded enough yet. Your posts are still somewhat based in reality and not the emotional tirade of a 4 year old.
That's a little harsh... I think some folks are just not allowing the facts to get in the way of a good story or like to draw conclusions on absurdly small sample sizes.
By the way in CC's last 13 starts, he has given up more than 2 runs just twice and minus a crappy start he had the last series of the year against TB his shortest outing was 6.2 innings in those 13 starts... It's not like he just turned it on during the postseason against the Twins and 'weak hitting' Angels as some would have you believe.
The Phils will pose a tough test and he could easily lay an egg (it would not surprise me to see any starter on either team get bombed in this series), it's just comical to see people put so much stock in that NLDS series last year where clearly CC was on fumes. Not only was there the whole 3 days rest, I don't think people realize he threw over 250 innings that year and threw ~250 pitches more than his previous career high.
Until 2007 he basically threw ~200innings per year... it jumped up to 240 in '07 in CLE (and he also got hit during those playoffs) and jumped to 250 with Cle/Mil last year. The Yankees went out of their way to cut his innings down the stretch though he did still throw 230 innings.
whotony
10-27-09, 06:53 PM
I'm just bitter that they traded away the only athlete of note from my school. I would have liked to see him get another shot in the WS, not that he would have been playing this time around. :)
Oh, so you put a curse on the Phils.
A better idea would have been to put a blessing(opposite of curse?) on him so he could hit a baseball and throw out a runner.
other then that he was a nice guy and somehow became a fan favorite around here.
Yeah, it's too bad he got his chance a little late in life. But that allowed him to sell some books I suppose.
And I didn't put a curse on the Phillies, they did it themselves by trading a player they didn't need. I'm sure the curse of Doug Mientkiewicz currently affecting the Yankees will balance things out. :lol:
Just trying to lighten up the tense playoff atmosphere in this thread. ;)
Well looks like the Astros are now cursed as they dropped him off the 40 and sent him to triple a.
I'm sorry, you're not retarded enough yet. Your posts are still somewhat based in reality and not the emotional tirade of a 4 year old.
That is just brilliant, have anymore?
CRM114
10-27-09, 07:43 PM
3. Yes this one single series proves this. But we'll ignore the statistical data of the past few years that show the AL dominating the NL in interleauge play. This one series seals this fact.
No, no, no. It's a perfect illustration. The AL got +3 in interleague play by Toronto sweeping the Phillies. So collectively, all the games together prove the AL is superior. Clearly, since we are leaving ballparks, matchups, and home/away out of the equation, I can clearly see the Jays are superior to the Phils.
CRM114
10-27-09, 07:55 PM
Now I'm not trying to say that CC will be dominant against the Phillies tomorrow. They'll be the toughest team he's faced all postseason... but the Yankees are the toughest team that Lee has faced all postseason too. We don't know what's going to happen. Both CC and Lee could get shelled tomorrow and both offenses can put up football scores (I bet Cleveland fans would love that) or one of the teams can lose 1-0. That's why baseball is awesome.
I can understand the frustration because the media is nuthugging CC while not paying attention to Lee who has done just as well, but to say that CC hasn't done anything impressive because the Angels are a light hitting team is just wrong.
I agree that this game 1 could go either way. Both are outstanding pitchers.
I never went as far as bootsy in critiquing Sabathia. Victorino is only brought up as an example of a Phillies teeing off on him. Why is that unacceptable? No one is saying that Victorino can do it again or any other Phillie will do it. But it's possible.
wirefan
10-27-09, 08:05 PM
No, no, no. It's a perfect illustration. The AL got +3 in interleague play by Toronto sweeping the Phillies. So collectively, all the games together prove the AL is superior. Clearly, since we are leaving ballparks, matchups, and home/away out of the equation, I can clearly see the Jays are superior to the Phils.
Where did anyone say the Jays are superior to the Phils - are you reading this thread? If you are going to put word in someone's mouth quote the post (which you won't because it is clear you are trying to twist someone else words into absurdity to somehow make your ridiculous argument sound strong)
Is your logic really this flawed? The interleague record is based on hundred's of games, not 3... It features all levels of teams playing each other not just 2 teams like the WS. It is roughly the same # of home and road games between NL and AL... And while you can talk about specific matchups or some of the yearly fixed interleague rival games being lopsided one particular year, you can't dismiss the last 3 years of interleague play on bad matchups or parks or the DH... that is just absurdly illogical...
I'm stunned that you are really saying this - I thought at first you were just stirring things up or playing devil's advocate, but based on your repeated attempts and your use of insanely bad logic and complete misquoting of what others are saying, I'm guessing you honestly believe that the World Series is more representative of the overall strength of the leagues as opposed to I don't know maybe 250 games each year? That is just nuts... -ohbfrank-
CRM114
10-27-09, 09:58 PM
Obviously I understand the statistical point you are attempting to make. My sarcasm is based on the off the cuff assumption of AL superiority based on inter-league play while dismissing division championships and 6 rounds of playoffs. If it is easier for you to swallow, let's just say the best the AL had to offer last year was not good enough to beat the best the NL had to offer. Unless you are making the claim that that one series, the World Series, is equivalent to any other inter-league series.
The Cow
10-27-09, 10:17 PM
I'm stunned that you are really saying this - I thought at first you were just stirring things up or playing devil's advocate, but based on your repeated attempts and your use of insanely bad logic and complete misquoting of what others are saying, I'm guessing you honestly believe that the World Series is more representative of the overall strength of the leagues as opposed to I don't know maybe 250 games each year? That is just nuts... -ohbfrank-
Isn't the WS what matters in the end? Just checking.
kenbuzz
10-27-09, 11:06 PM
Isn't the WS what matters in the end? Just checking.But when exactly is that "end" gonna happen? Isn't it November in just a couple of days?
We come from the same place, and will prolly be friends someday.. hehe..
wirefan
10-27-09, 11:18 PM
First you need to stop twisting what people are saying... by ANY meaningful measurement (other than the rose colored eyes of a Philly fan) the AL as a league has been better than the NL as a league the last few years.... despite your desire to twist my words and other people's words, that does not mean the AL should win the World Series or that the best team in the NL can't compete with the best team in the AL. It also does not mean the AL should win every series in interleague play.
Second, using 250 games each year for 3 years does not constitute an "off the cuff" assumption - I'm not making anything up... it's not an asssumption, it's the outcome of the games. You can foolishly continue to dismiss the facts because 'teams don't care as much' (or maybe the AL cares more? :)) Or you can say the DH impacts the NL more with games in the AL stadiums (which unless you choose to ignore statistics is patently untrue as NL DH's actually outhit AL DH's this year...) And you can just dismiss the NL stadium games... well not sure why other than it doesn't fit your story.
Third, if you think the World Series determines the best team in baseball, you must not follow the game very closely or have seen that many World Series. While the best team CAN and maybe even does win a majority of the times, it doesn't always win the series - a hot pitcher or two, a hot hitter or two, a long series prior to the WS that screws up one teams rotation or just specific matchup issues.... any number of factors can impact the outcome such that the best team does not win.
Fourth.... there aren't 6 rounds of playoffs, so I'm not sure how "I dismiss this" -ohbfrank- And in this bizarro world you living in there are 6 rounds of playoffs between the AL and NL? If not what's the point here? How does a series between 2 AL or 2 NL teams help assess which league is stronger?
Unless you are making the claim that that one series, the World Series, is equivalent to any other inter-league series.
How could you possibly get this out of what I said? (Though I'm sure you'll come up with a clever quip about how my comments are so muddled you don't know what I'm saying). So I'll spell... it... out... for... you...
1. 250 games each year is a much better assessment of the relative strength between the leagues then a single best of 7 series.
2. Any single series (whether it be regular season or the WS) is not necessarily an indicator of the best team and it is CERTAINLY not an indicator of which league is stronger
I continue to be amazed at how you fail to grasp such a simple concept and choose to try to take my comments in a different direction or change the argument. Again the AL being a stronger league overall does not predict the WS winner or the winner of any specific interleague series, nor am I equating a single interleague reg season series to the WS.
[Fighting urge to completely misinterpret one of your comments into somethng absurd and then spinning it into a question that starts with "Unless you are making the claim..."]
The Cow
10-27-09, 11:22 PM
First you need to stop twisting what people are saying... by ANY meaningful measurement (other than the rose colored eyes of a Philly fan) the AL as a league has been better than the NL as a league the last few years.... despite your desire to twist my words and other people's words, that does not mean the AL should win the World Series or that the best team in the NL can't compete with the best team in the AL. It also does not mean the AL should win every series in interleague play.
Second, using 250 games each year for 3 years does not constitute an "off the cuff" assumption - I'm not making anything up... it's not an asssumption, it's the outcome of the games. You can foolishly continue to dismiss the facts because 'teams don't care as much' (or maybe the AL cares more? :)) Or you can say the DH impacts the NL more with games in the AL stadiums (which unless you choose to ignore statistics is patently untrue as NL DH's actually outhit AL DH's this year...) And you can just dismiss the NL stadium games... well not sure why other than it doesn't fit your story.
Third, if you think the World Series determines the best team in baseball, you must not follow the game very closely or have seen that many World Series. While the best team CAN and maybe even does win a majority of the times, it doesn't always win the series - a hot pitcher or two, a hot hitter or two, a long series prior to the WS that screws up one teams rotation or just specific matchup issues.... any number of factors can impact the outcome such that the best team does not win.
Fourth.... there aren't 6 rounds of playoffs, so I'm not sure how "I dismiss this" -ohbfrank- And in this bizarro world you living in there are 6 rounds of playoffs between the AL and NL? If not what's the point here? How does a series between 2 AL or 2 NL teams help assess which league is stronger?
How could you possibly get this out of what I said? (Though I'm sure you'll come up with a clever quip about how my comments are so muddled you don't know what I'm saying). So I'll spell... it... out... for... you...
1. 250 games each year is a much better assessment of the relative strength between the leagues then a single best of 7 series.
2. Any single series (whether it be regular season or the WS) is not necessarily an indicator of the best team and it is CERTAINLY not an indicator of which league is stronger
I continue to be amazed at how you fail to grasp such a simple concept and choose to try to take my comments in a different direction or change the argument. Again the AL being a stronger league overall does not predict the WS winner or the winner of any specific interleague series, nor am I equating a single interleague reg season series to the WS.
[Fighting urge to completely misinterpret one of your comments into somethng absurd and then spinning it into a question that starts with "Unless you are making the claim..."]
Who won the WS last year, isn't that what they compete for?
wirefan
10-28-09, 12:50 AM
Who won the WS last year, isn't that what they compete for?
No you compete for the better overall interleague record, obviously.
My comments clearly had nothing to do with:
Unless you are going to break down the interleague play series by series acknowledging the standings of the teams and what rules they were playing under, it is not an indicator by itself of league strength.
With only an ~750 game sample size over the last 3 years... clearly you need to go through things series by series.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's not like the standings of the teams would average out over such a "small" sample size... :lol:
Or we could go the last 5 years (which is only ~1250 games - not as significant a sample size as say a 7 game World Series... but hey I'm crazy that way!):
AL- 713, NL- 546 (that's a .566 win %)
The absolute worst year for the AL in that span .539
But hey... gotta break this down with all the anomalies - I think there was one year when the Marlins didn't care about one of the series or maybe all of the interleague games and I should account for those 3 games or 13 games... :lol:
You have to wonder at what point is the sample size large enough to overcome the ridiculous excuses and say you know what, maybe this does mean something and is not just an anomaly or due to rules or standings quirks.
But then again maybe I'm just saying interleague record is more important than the World Series.... yeah I'm sure that's my point. ;)
huh?
10-28-09, 05:38 AM
Well, at least the games start tonight so we can stop all this nonsense and actually talk about the play on the field.
I predict Yanks in 6. They look like they are playing with a fire in their belly for the first time in a long time. It pains me to say this, but they actually seem like a fun team. Phillies are a good team with the ability to put up some big numbers offensively, but I feel that their extended layoff before game one will impact the offense.
Anyway, just my non professional opinion.
What is everyone else's prediction?
raven56706
10-28-09, 05:46 AM
I hope yankees in 6 so that they win it at the stadium... if not, sweep is good too ;)
Goat3001
10-28-09, 06:10 AM
What is everyone else's prediction?
Depends on how the first two games go. If the Phillies take the first two than I'd say Phils in 5. If Yankees take the first two I'd say Yankees in 6. If they split, I think it's Yankees in 7.
coli
10-28-09, 06:21 AM
I think this series goes 7 games, and I will have to say the Yanks take it. (Even though I am a Phils fan.)
I still think the Phils split in NY, and then take 2 of 3 in Philly. I could then see the Yanks taking the final 2 in NY.
X Factors:
-Hammels: Can he find his form from 2008?
-Burnett: Which AJ will show up, the unhittable one or the one who implodes?
-Lidge: Can he get a 3 out Save in the 9th inning?
-Yankees middle relief: Can Joba and Hughes shut the door in the 7th and 8th to get to Rivera, or does Girardi have to use Rivera for 2 innings?
-Will Texeria and Utley come out of their playoff slumps?
This is why I think both teams can win in 7, because any X-factor can give either team an edge
starman9000
10-28-09, 06:47 AM
Phills in 5.
Petite get's the only W for the Yanks.
(Unless A-Rod gets another A-Bomb against Lidge in the 9th tonight or tomorrow. Then I like the Yanks :( )
Goat3001
10-28-09, 07:25 AM
^I also think that if the Phils win in 5 the only game the Yankees win is game 3 with Pettitte on the hill. It's just hard to bet against that guy if you're down 2 games in the playoffs and he's pitching game 3.
Goat3001
10-28-09, 07:44 AM
X Factors:
-Hammels: Can he find his form from 2008?
-Burnett: Which AJ will show up, the unhittable one or the one who implodes?
-Lidge: Can he get a 3 out Save in the 9th inning?
-Yankees middle relief: Can Joba and Hughes shut the door in the 7th and 8th to get to Rivera, or does Girardi have to use Rivera for 2 innings?
-Will Texeria and Utley come out of their playoff slumps?
This is why I think both teams can win in 7, because any X-factor can give either team an edge
Hamels can be great but he's been having a pretty poor postseason so far. Offense has bailed him out though. It seems like Phils fans have been waiting for him to find his 2008 form all year. He's certainly capable but he just hasn't shown it so far this postseason.
Burnett is a big X factor. Luckily, he's got a good set up. He's pitching at home where he's been better and he's up against Pedro and while I can see Pedro going 8 innings of 1 run ball I can also see him getting teed off on. Game 2 is very interesting because it can really go any way. I wouldn't be surprised to see a pitchers duel and at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if neither pitcher made it to the 5th.
Lidge seems to have turned it on so far. But can he continue it or will he regress back to 2009 regular season Lidge. Either way, it's a good time to get hot. But don't forget Ryan Madson. He hasn't pitched so great thus far. In a pinch, would Lidge be able to pitch 2 innings?
Joba and Hughes have been suspect, as has Alfredo Aceves. This is what scares me. Hughes and Ace were dominant in the bullpen all year and this is the worst possible time to hit a slump. These are big pieces to the puzzle in this series. The bright side is that they're middle relief and while they can suck for a long time, they're also capable of turning it around very quickly. That goes for Madson too.
Is Utley hurt? I haven't seen enough of him this postseason to judge but I could swear someone mentioned his hip as the reason to why he's been struggling. The rest should help. As for Tex, yeah he needs to break out of it. He hasn't been hitting but it seems like he's still come through when they absolutely needed him to. At least the defense has been nothing short of spectacular.
I think the biggest X factor is Girardi. I think he may have learned his lesson after the game 3 loss to the Angels. Hopefully that's so and he uses the formula that got him to the World Series instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Meanwhile, on the other side you have a manager who was there just last year, so he's got the experience and knows how to win in this situation. That's a big edge in the Phillies favor right there.
coli
10-28-09, 07:52 AM
Is Utley hurt? I haven't seen enough of him this postseason to judge but I could swear someone mentioned his hip as the reason to why he's been struggling. The rest should help. .
I believe he is hurt, as Utley will NEVER tell the press that he is injured, so we won't know til after the season. He had that hip surgery and wasn't suppose to be back til early June, but was ready Opening day. I wonder if the hip is not fully recovered and he is just trying to make it to the finish line.
CRM114
10-28-09, 07:59 AM
I honestly don't know who will win this series. Last year, the Phils were obviously the better team on paper. Not this year. I just hope they get the game in tonight.
Goat3001
10-28-09, 08:09 AM
I just hope they get the game in tonight.
Which is something worth worrying about. It rained all day yesterday and more of the same today. We've all been really excited about this series to get started and we might have to wait another day.
CRM114
10-28-09, 08:38 AM
The forecasters here are saying it should taper off by game time to a light drizzle. The question is the field condition after days of rain.
CRM114
10-28-09, 08:44 AM
I'm sure everyone has seen the NY Post from yesterday:
<img src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/10/22/sports/22redsox.xlarge6.jpg">
Question 5. <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #F9DF00">S:</font> <b>×2 Who's going to win the World Series this year? <a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp"><b>√ Standings at MLB.com</b></a></b>
<img src="http://redsoxdiary.com/DailyNews0902.jpg">
New York Yankees (-8):
JasonF
Mordred
MrX
Pharoh
No you compete for the better overall interleague record, obviously.
My comments clearly had nothing to do with:
With only an ~750 game sample size over the last 3 years... clearly you need to go through things series by series.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's not like the standings of the teams would average out over such a "small" sample size... :lol:
Or we could go the last 5 years (which is only ~1250 games - not as significant a sample size as say a 7 game World Series... but hey I'm crazy that way!):
AL- 713, NL- 546 (that's a .566 win %)
The absolute worst year for the AL in that span .539
But hey... gotta break this down with all the anomalies - I think there was one year when the Marlins didn't care about one of the series or maybe all of the interleague games and I should account for those 3 games or 13 games... :lol:
You have to wonder at what point is the sample size large enough to overcome the ridiculous excuses and say you know what, maybe this does mean something and is not just an anomaly or due to rules or standings quirks.
But then again maybe I'm just saying interleague record is more important than the World Series.... yeah I'm sure that's my point. ;)
dude, you're wasting your time. Your research and facts are solid and you're backing everything up with logic. We (the unbiased) have been following along and can tell that you're winning this. Here's the problem - you're arguing against a mentality that refuses to admit when it's been proven wrong. You're going to continue to get responses like this:
"Who won the WS last year, isn't that what they compete for?"
and the flip-flopping because it's the only thing they have left other than admitting defeat, which they just won't do.
I'm sure everyone has seen the NY Post from yesterday:
The NY Post is embarassing. It's pathetic journalism and they always have headlines like the ones you posted because they know it'll get people riled up. The Post shouldn't be taken seriously, it's not indicitive what people in NY really think.
Goat3001
10-28-09, 10:40 AM
So will tonight's game be rained out?
Reports say that the rain should let up in the evening. Looks like we'll get baseball... possibly a delayed start.
Hoping for the best. :fc:
CRM114
10-28-09, 10:40 AM
So will tonight's game be rained out?
I'm 70 miles west of NYC and it is raining like hell. I can't believe the field will be playable even if it slows enough. But with a billion dollar ballpark, they may have the greatest drainage system in the world. ;)
scott1598
10-28-09, 01:29 PM
what exactly is the logic of pitching Martinez in G2? the Yankees have always owned him and even he has acknowledged this. is it just so Hamels would feel more comfortable at home since he is struggling?
also, i've always liked Miguel Cairo when he was on the Yanks, even though he didn't do too much, but since the Phills kept him off the WS roster and brought in that pitcher, does Cairo still get a share and ring if they do win?
Goat3001
10-28-09, 01:39 PM
what exactly is the logic of pitching Martinez in G2? the Yankees have always owned him and even he has acknowledged this. is it just so Hamels would feel more comfortable at home since he is struggling?
also, i've always liked Miguel Cairo when he was on the Yanks, even though he didn't do too much, but since the Phills kept him off the WS roster and brought in that pitcher, does Cairo still get a share and ring if they do win?
You answered your own question about Pedro. Manuel thinks pitching Pedro in game 2 in a hostile enviornment makes sense because he's got more experience than Hamels. Hamels pitches better at home and it just makes perfect sense. Plus they keep him out of the batter's box. Pedro is no spring chicken so I'm sure Manuel doesn't want him to run the bases.
It's the same thing Girardi is doing with Burnett. Burnett is better at home so he's going in Game 2. Logically you'd put Pettitte at #2 instead. But this way you get Burnett at home and you're not sacraficing too much from the lineup because Matsui can DH. If Burnett pitched to Molina in the NL park then you now lose Matsui (no DH) and Posada for most of that game.
coli
10-28-09, 01:47 PM
what exactly is the logic of pitching Martinez in G2? the Yankees have always owned him and even he has acknowledged this. is it just so Hamels would feel more comfortable at home since he is struggling?
It's a hailmary for a few reasons:
-Hammels is not the pitcher he was in 2008, if he hasn't ridden the ship at this point, Manuel doesn't have much faith in him in.
-Pedro pitched a gem in the NLCS, and he has pitched in Yankee Stadium in the playoffs, so he won't wilt under the pressure.
-Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the Yankees a better hitting team off of lefties? Tex has more power when he hits right, A-Rod and Jeter are righties, and Matsui hits well off of lefties too. Any Yankees fans feel free to correct me.
CRM114
10-28-09, 02:01 PM
He did it to protect Hamels fragile confidence level. What I'm wondering is why you wouldn't use Blanton instead? I guess Pedro's performance in the NLCS earned him the spot.
Goat3001
10-28-09, 02:07 PM
-Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the Yankees a better hitting team off of lefties? Tex has more power when he hits right, A-Rod and Jeter are righties, and Matsui hits well off of lefties too. Any Yankees fans feel free to correct me.
The Yankees have hit lefties well but saying they hit better is a little misleading considering the Yankees (like every other team) have faced many more righties than lefties. Obviously the Yankees have more home runs and RBI's off righties, but they see them more. They have a lower average against righties but that's also because the more you see them the lower the average gets.
But either way, saying that Pedro is a good match for the Yankees is because of the short porch and 7 of the 9 Yankee hitters will be batting from the left side.
SonOfAStu
10-28-09, 02:07 PM
If Burnett pitched to Molina in the NL park then you now lose Matsui (no DH) and Posada for most of that game.
The Yankees left Cervelli off the WS roster, so the speculation is that the Burnett/Molina experiment is going to be scrapped this week.
wildcatlh
10-28-09, 02:18 PM
what exactly is the logic of pitching Martinez in G2? the Yankees have always owned him and even he has acknowledged this. is it just so Hamels would feel more comfortable at home since he is struggling?
also, i've always liked Miguel Cairo when he was on the Yanks, even though he didn't do too much, but since the Phills kept him off the WS roster and brought in that pitcher, does Cairo still get a share and ring if they do win?
He's got a sub-3 ERA at Yankee Stadium in his career. The Yankees have hit him hard in the playoffs (ERA over 6), but that's a relatively small sample size (3 starts)
Goat3001
10-28-09, 02:33 PM
^It's also a different style Pedro. Yankees are used to seeing the Pedro that threw gas, now he's gone through the "old pitcher" transformation where he's now all about locating and changing speeds.
But the reason the Yankees have a good record against Pedro (when he was on the Sox) was because they knew they could wait him out. The Yankees would match him up against their best pitcher and just be patient, hopefully tack on a run or two but get him out as early as possible. Ideally, the Yankee starter did just enough to keep the Yankees in the game and then the Yankees would tee off on the bullpen. That was pretty much their Pedro Gameplan and it worked a lot. But it's not the same Pedro, so the gameplan may not work.
But what I do know is that Yankees know how to beat up on those soft throwing, locate the ball righties.
Game is still up in the air. It's pouring now.
whotony
10-28-09, 02:52 PM
The players and the team decides who gets a share and how much of a percentage.
tcoursen
10-28-09, 02:55 PM
He's got a sub-3 ERA at Yankee Stadium in his career. The Yankees have hit him hard in the playoffs (ERA over 6), but that's a relatively small sample size (3 starts)
Pedro has not pitched at the new Yankee Stadium. I would think his sub 3 ERA at the old stadium is not important.
CRM114
10-28-09, 03:31 PM
It totally stopped raining here pretty much. I think the game will be on. This weather will be in NY within a couple hours.
CRM114
10-28-09, 03:31 PM
BTW, Pedro was pitching in the low 90's. Is that "soft throwing?"
Goat3001
10-28-09, 04:15 PM
It totally stopped raining here pretty much. I think the game will be on. This weather will be in NY within a couple hours.
:up: Yeah stopped raining here in western Long Island. We should be getting some baseball. No rain is nice but the weather is still pretty shitty.
Baseball weather :D
BTW, Pedro was pitching in the low 90's. Is that "soft throwing?"
It's certainly not the Pedro the Yankees are used to seeing. But I admit I thought he was throwing more in the 88-92 range.
CRM114
10-28-09, 04:37 PM
The Yankees of 2003 have little resemblance to this team. :shrug:
Buy: