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Don't you just hate it when the good guy gets killed off in the sequel? [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum
 
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View Full Version : Don't you just hate it when the good guy gets killed off in the sequel?


jeffkjoe
07-17-09, 02:32 AM
Possible SPOILERS

Didn't u just hate it when they unceremoniously killed off Sarah Connor, Laurie Strode, and Ellen Ripley/Newt/Corporal Hicks in T3, Halloween Resurrection, and Alien 3 respectively?

After all they went through, their character arcs require them to be terminated, just so their movie franchises can move forward?

It's as if all of our emotional investment in these characters was for NOTHING.

I just wish we could go back and consider their ends to be:

T2 - Sarah Connor stops Judgment Day
Halloween H2O - Laurie beheads Michael once and for all
Aliens - Ripley and Newt drift off to hypersleep


Victorious in the end. No more bullshit.

UAIOE
07-17-09, 03:00 AM
There is a "T3"? I don't recognize any movie after "T2".

I rather like the ending of "T2". Its an open, if somber, ending. Somber in the sense that what Sarah has done with her and John's life is not really relevant anymore. She's spent her life knowing that Judgment Day will happen in 1997 and now its not, now what? What do they do from this point on?

And "Alien 3" is such a mess of a movie it isn't even worth discussing anymore. All I can say is that Newt & Hicks are the least of Alien 3's problems.

wendersfan
07-17-09, 05:26 AM
Aliens - Ripley and Newt drift off to hypersleep, and there was NEVER another egg on boardhttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2370/2049471199_421f5e7c3d.jpg

Superboy
07-17-09, 10:19 AM
I don't think Sarah Conner was unceremoniously killed. I think its just that her character was as taken as far as it could go at that point in the franchise.

Groucho
07-17-09, 10:23 AM
I don't think Sarah Conner was unceremoniously killed. I think its just that her character was as taken as far as it could go at that point in the franchise.That's a long-winded way of saying "Linda Hamilton didn't want to do the movie".

pjflyer
07-17-09, 10:31 AM
One of my favorite "good guys" died in 2 sequels:

Rocky 3 and Grumpier Old Men

jeffkjoe
07-17-09, 10:51 AM
One of my favorite "good guys" died in 2 sequels:

Rocky 3 and Grumpier Old Men


That's a good choice.

I also didn't mind Adrian's death in ROCKY BALBOA, as it served a purpose.

Hokeyboy
07-17-09, 10:54 AM
I remember seeing IRON EAGLE 2 in the 80s and getting PO'ed that they killed off the hero from the first movie in the first 5 minutes, as a way of giving the hero in the sequel some kind of bullshit motivation. The same with Nightmare on Elm Street 4, wherein they killed all the survivors from Nightmare on Elm Street 3. Or Hostel 2, for that matter.

Not that those were GOOD movies, but it seemed so stupid and pointless.

inri222
07-17-09, 11:31 AM
Robert Duvall in The Godfather Part III.
Not shown but mentioned.
Studio refused to pay the $5 million he wanted for the role.

tylergfoster
07-17-09, 11:42 AM
I only hate it when the person in question returns for the opening scene only to bite it. Adrienne King in Friday the 13th Part 2, for instance.

I rarely feel that an ending was "so good" that they ruined it by bringing someone back and altering it, but I'll agree that Halloween: Resurrection falls into that category. Ugh.

I don't really know what to say anymore to people who hate Alien³. I still have never watched the theatrical cut, so maybe it's really, really bad and I just have no idea about it, but the workprint on the Quadrilogy set is phenomenal and anyone who can't get past the fact that Hicks and Newt die is unable to see the forest for the trees. Alien³ is one of the most awesome, ballsy franchise movies ever, and despite the fact that everyone always complains about it, I've yet to hear a legitimate reason why it sucks.

Hokeyboy
07-17-09, 11:47 AM
Alien³ is one of the most awesome, ballsy franchise movies ever, and despite the fact that everyone always complains about it, I've yet to hear a legitimate reason why it sucks.
It's kinda drab and really boring.

Solid Snake
07-17-09, 11:59 AM
Yeah...it's really really boring.

Drop
07-17-09, 12:53 PM
As far as Alien goes, it is a series about Ripley and I think her character arc is very well done. It's the most sensible ending for her. The death of those characters goes right along with Ripley's arc.

BullGooseLoony
07-17-09, 01:01 PM
I've always been in the minority of liking Alien 3. Here's the funny thing, I liked it when I was a kid, and that's not really the kind of movie that a nine-year-old likes. The problem is that people didn't want Alien 3, they wanted Aliens 2, so instead of another slam-bang actioner, they got something much deliberate.

So one seemed to mind when the franchise went from slow-paced horror of the first to non-stop action of the second. They changed genres once, why not again. Alien 3 is truly gothic sci-fi horror. It's creepy, intense, and feels like Blade Runner or Batman, but really violent.

I haven't seen it in a while, but all of my memories are good.

Alien: Resurrection sucks balls, though.

Hokeyboy
07-17-09, 01:19 PM
Dreadfully, dreadfully boring.

jeffkjoe
07-17-09, 01:40 PM
How about Sarah Michelle Gellar surviving The Grudge, but not Grudge 2?

Here's one up for debate:

U guys approve Jamie Kennedy's death in Scream 2?

AnonomusBob15
07-17-09, 02:01 PM
Yes. I like it when any Scream character gets killed. Particularly him

UAIOE
07-17-09, 02:20 PM
Alien³ is one of the most awesome, ballsy franchise movies ever, and despite the fact that everyone always complains about it, I've yet to hear a legitimate reason why it sucks.

I'm gonna sin for this one.

It takes a special caliber of movie to not only fuck with established cannon from two previous movies (facehuggers implanting more than one person? ie: Ripley *and* the Ox/dog) but also to base a major plot point (Ripley being implanted) around a enormous plot hole (the eggs getting onto the ship).

Triple bonus points for introducing this massive plot hole before the opening credits even end!

Never mind that most of the inmates in the prison are unlikable, unmemorable, they all run together, and generally serve no real purpose other than to get killed off.

:::end my sinning:::

Dan
07-17-09, 02:28 PM
I'm also a fan of Alien 3. The special effects were weak at times, but overall, I'd say it's my favourite film in the series.

wendersfan
07-17-09, 02:31 PM
I'm also a fan of Alien 3. The special effects were weak at times, but overall, I'd say it's my favourite film in the series.It's probably my favorite as well. Objectively, Alien is far better, but there's something about the third one I just love. Can't stand Aliens and never have.

Ash Ketchum
07-17-09, 02:32 PM
Robert Duvall in The Godfather Part III.
Not shown but mentioned.
Studio refused to pay the $5 million he wanted for the role.

They should have paid him the money. Hell, they were saving money by hiring Sofia Coppola (and I can't believe they would have paid her a cent; Coppola should have paid them to let him use his daughter). Not that Duvall would have saved the movie, but it would have been a little less annoying when he was on screen.

Hokeyboy
07-17-09, 02:34 PM
They should have paid him the money. Hell, they were saving money by hiring Sofia Coppola (and I can't believe they would have paid her a cent; Coppola should have paid them to let him use his daughter). Not that Duvall would have saved the movie, but it would have been a little less annoying when he was on screen.

http://abaltimoreblock.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/george-hamilton.jpg

"SUCK IT!"

Numanoid
07-17-09, 02:50 PM
When Newt and Hicks died at the beginning of Alien 3, I remeber verbally letting out a "Hell yeah!" and sitting up in my seat, knowing that this was going to be a different kind of movie. Still my favorite of the series, by far. Happy endings are boring, and adding little kids to franchises is lame.

wendersfan
07-17-09, 03:07 PM
When Newt and Hicks died at the beginning of Alien 3, I remeber verbally letting out a "Hell yeah!" and sitting up in my seat, knowing that this was going to be a different kind of movie. Still my favorite of the series, by far. Happy endings are boring, and adding little kids to franchises is lame."Mostly..."

DthRdrX
07-17-09, 04:52 PM
I remember seeing IRON EAGLE 2 in the 80s and getting PO'ed that they killed off the hero from the first movie in the first 5 minutes, as a way of giving the hero in the sequel some kind of bullshit motivation. The same with Nightmare on Elm Street 4, wherein they killed all the survivors from Nightmare on Elm Street 3. Or Hostel 2, for that matter.

Not that those were GOOD movies, but it seemed so stupid and pointless.

I remember being pissed about Iron Eagle 2 as well so your not alone. Of course, Iron Eagle 4 was a piece of shit but they changed the story so the character never really died.

I always felt that NOES 4 seemed like a low budget film compared to the first three.

gmanca
07-17-09, 04:59 PM
http://abaltimoreblock.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/george-hamilton.jpg

"SUCK IT!"

How appropriate, since his name was BJ in the movie.

Reading what they were going to do if Duvall had accepted the role, that would have been a great film. That situation should hold some weight in the minds of producers on how sometimes it pays to pay.

Groucho
07-17-09, 05:04 PM
Alien 3 was universally hated when it was released, but now has been retconned to be a good movie due to David Fincher's later efforts.

wm lopez
07-17-09, 05:18 PM
They should have paid him the money. Hell, they were saving money by hiring Sofia Coppola (and I can't believe they would have paid her a cent; Coppola should have paid them to let him use his daughter). Not that Duvall would have saved the movie, but it would have been a little less annoying when he was on screen. She looked cute.

Dean Kousoulas
07-17-09, 06:37 PM
I'm still pissed that Johnny Cage died so early on in Mortal Kombat 2.

jeffkjoe
07-18-09, 12:20 AM
And Apollo Creed had no business dying in Rocky IV.

Robot Rock
07-18-09, 01:25 AM
And Apollo Creed had no business dying in Rocky IV.

I agree.

I was watching that movie for the first time in a long time and I never realized that 25 minutes of that movie is a montage scene of some kind. It's ridiculous.

Solid Snake
07-18-09, 07:46 PM
Alien 3 was universally hated when it was released, but now has been retconned to be a good movie due to David Fincher's later efforts.

As far as I know a lot of fans still hate Alien 3. In fact I'm sure most of us..don't even consider it part of his filmography cuz of the shit Fox gave him.

GoldenJCJ
07-19-09, 11:53 AM
I agree.

I was watching that movie for the first time in a long time and I never realized that 25 minutes of that movie is a montage scene of some kind. It's ridiculous.

Rocky IV is basically a 2 hour music video. Although I do love the soundtrack (80s cheese, as it is) so I can tolerate it.

Shannon Nutt
07-19-09, 02:57 PM
I remember seeing IRON EAGLE 2 in the 80s and getting PO'ed that they killed off the hero from the first movie in the first 5 minutes

Yeah, but he came back in part IV, albeit with a different actor playing the role.

Dr. DVD
07-19-09, 09:23 PM
It seems there is a long standing tradition in horror movies that whomever survives one movie will get killed off in the sequel.

I will say that while it was temporary, killing Evie in Mummy Returns kind of ruined the fun spirited nature of the movie.

tylergfoster
07-20-09, 12:35 AM
It's kinda drab and really boring."Boring" is subjective. I don't think it's boring.

antspawn
07-20-09, 02:12 AM
Kickboxer II

RocShemp
07-20-09, 06:17 AM
It was really annoying when it happened in Maniac Cop 2.

Kickboxer II

Didn't that happen again in part 4 or 5?

islandclaws
07-20-09, 10:28 AM
Road House 2.

Never saw it, but how dare they kill off Dalton!

jeffbase34
07-20-09, 10:44 AM
I believe the main guy character who survived in Final Destination was briefly mentioned as being dead in the sequels. That really sucked.

Hokeyboy
07-20-09, 11:09 AM
"Boring" is subjective. I don't think it's boring.
Naturally. Of course...
Alien³ is one of the most awesome, ballsy franchise movies ever...
"Awesome" and "ballsy" are completely subjective. I don't think Alien³ is either of those (Fincher probably feels the same) but that's cool. I'm one of 3 people in the universe that thought DePalma's "Bonfire of the Vanities" was damn funny.

Numanoid
07-20-09, 11:15 AM
"Mostly..."Well added.

Rockmjd23
07-20-09, 11:21 AM
Alien 3 was universally hated when it was released, but now has been retconned to be a good movie due to David Fincher's later efforts.
:lol: I'm surprised Alien: Resurrection hasn't had the same fate due to Whedon's involvement.

edstein
07-20-09, 11:49 AM
Ben Kenobi in SW:Episode IV

Anubis2005X
07-20-09, 12:05 PM
I will say that while it was temporary, killing Evie in Mummy Returns kind of ruined the fun spirited nature of the movie.

That was just a cringe-inducing scene all around. Contrived, badly acted...granted it's The Mummy 2, but still!

UAIOE
07-20-09, 01:42 PM
"Mummy Returns" is alright, but isn't anywhere near as fun as the first movie.

And that scene does take away from the fun, light-hearted tone of the movie.


I'm still pissed that Johnny Cage died so early on in Mortal Kombat 2.

*THIS* is what bothered you about MK: Annihilation? THIS?

What about

MIt0VY7Yg2w

RocShemp
07-20-09, 01:54 PM
rotfl I forgot that terrible line in MK2. Then again, I spent most of that year unsuccessfuly erasing MK2 from my memory. I still remember when Shao Kahn killed Rain by smacking him with his hammer and we see a random insert of Baraka falling into a flame pit (which was later reused in a fight with Liu Kang). :lol:

printerati
07-20-09, 02:03 PM
I believe the main guy character who survived in Final Destination was briefly mentioned as being dead in the sequels. That really sucked.

Yes, the Ali Larter character has newspaper clippings of his death in her padded cell. She was the only one of the survivors who made it into the second film as a living character.

story
07-20-09, 03:38 PM
Seriously.

tylergfoster
07-20-09, 09:21 PM
"Awesome" and "ballsy" are completely subjective. I don't think Alien³ is either of those (Fincher probably feels the same) but that's cool. I'm one of 3 people in the universe that thought DePalma's "Bonfire of the Vanities" was damn funny.Awesome is, but (any word-choice semantics aside) I don't know about ballsy. The movie takes chances with the characters, doesn't it?

UAIOE
07-21-09, 03:37 AM
I'd say the only thing "ballsy" about the movie is that FOX tried to make a movie with such a mish-mash script.

I also can't understand how such a big budget A-list movie can be stuck with such a B/C grade movie plothole riddled opening.

Even "Alien Resurrection" only has one highly suspect aspect (clone aliens from Ripley's DNA?) and its the goofiest movie out of the series.

And no, I don't consider AVP part of either movie series.

DRG
07-22-09, 03:29 PM
As someone who really enjoyed Halloween 4, I hated the way H5 and H6 dispatched of Rachel and Jamie, respectively, early in each film. Rachel was killed too easily for someone who fought so hard to survive in H4, and Jamie's death was reduced to a silly plot device.

tylergfoster
07-23-09, 01:31 AM
As someone who really enjoyed Halloween 4, I hated the way H5 and H6 dispatched of Rachel and Jamie, respectively, early in each film. Rachel was killed too easily for someone who fought so hard to survive in H4, and Jamie's death was reduced to a silly plot device.At least Danielle Harris demanded exorbitant amounts of money to do it and when she was refused, turned down the part. When it's not the same actor, it seems less annoying to me.

Sean O'Hara
07-23-09, 10:13 AM
I've always been in the minority of liking Alien 3. Here's the funny thing, I liked it when I was a kid, and that's not really the kind of movie that a nine-year-old likes. The problem is that people didn't want Alien 3, they wanted Aliens 2, so instead of another slam-bang actioner, they got something much deliberate.


Instead we get Alien 2 -- only the memorable characters like Parker and Ash are replaced by a bunch of ciphers who all look alike so the audience has no investment when they're killed.

Killing off Newt and Hicks could've worked if it'd been for something interesting, but not in a straight rehash of the first film. It just makes it more obvious that the new characters aren't worth caring about.

DthRdrX
07-23-09, 02:31 PM
rotfl I forgot that terrible line in MK2. Then again, I spent most of that year unsuccessfuly erasing MK2 from my memory. I still remember when Shao Kahn killed Rain by smacking him with his hammer and we see a random insert of Baraka falling into a flame pit (which was later reused in a fight with Liu Kang). :lol:

I went to see MK:A with a group of friends, one of which was a die hard MK fan. Twice during the movie he got up and pronounced to all in the theater that he was going to take a shit. That would be when Johnny Cage died and the goofy punk rocker Raiden fight scene v.s. three reptiles.

Personally, I'm still stuck on the part when Sub-Zero told the good guys that they would need his help, and then he vanished out of the rest of the movie.

RocShemp
07-23-09, 02:58 PM
That would be when Johnny Cage died and the goofy punk rocker Raiden fight scene v.s. three reptiles.

The only reason I find that scene remotely watchable is because Ray Park portrayed Raiden during that whole fight sequence. They dodn't even make an attempt to hide his face.

Personally, I'm still stuck on the part when Sub-Zero told the good guys that they would need his help, and then he vanished out of the rest of the movie.

Worse is when Scorpion yelled "SUCKERS!" just before he kidnapped Kitana.

And didn't a crappy looking CGI Noob Saibot emerge from Ermac or Rain?

Ah! Flashbacks! :yack:

DthRdrX
07-23-09, 06:45 PM
O yea, those characters were wasted. How about how they stuck Sheeva and Baraka into that one crappy scene, or this one:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GmX_2qAvqts&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GmX_2qAvqts&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>