DVD Talk
Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story? [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum
 
Best Sellers
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
The Longest Day
Buy: $54.99 $24.99
9.
10.
DVD Blowouts
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
Alien [Blu-ray]
Buy: $19.99 $9.99
8.
9.
10.

PDA
DVD Reviews

View Full Version : Possible to make a good, new superhero movie without having an "origin" story?


toddly6666
06-18-09, 11:11 AM
For superhero characters in their first films, has there ever been a good superhero movie that doesn't involve the origin storyline? Sequels don't count!!! Such as X-Men 2, The Dark Knight, and Spiderman 2.

I would like to see a brand new superhero movie that's just like The Dark Knight, meaning, Batman is just there, part of the story, and not dealing with his origin storyline (as in Batman Begins). Does anyone think it's possible to do a good superhero movie like that?

It seems like all superhero movies always have to cover the "origin story". But due to this, it may compromise more interesting, original storylines that may or may not come about in their sequels.

Is it the movie producers that are obsessed with the "origin" storyline? Meaning, people will get turned off from a superhero movie that doesn't explain why or how the main superhero came to be?

There have been many good superhero movies recently but they all follow the same format in which the actual story of the movie doesn't really start til the 3rd act.

Goat3001
06-18-09, 11:26 AM
It wouldn't make much sense to make a film without an origin story because a lot of the viewers don't know that origin story. Most people haven't read the comic book of the superhero they're going to see. Which is why some background is a necessity.

Anubis2005X
06-18-09, 11:28 AM
I didn't think the '89 Batman had much of his origin...

Draven
06-18-09, 11:34 AM
I think it's the easiest story to tell, it's the one that audiences expect and, if done well, works just fine.

So I don't see why anyone would really want to rock the boat. Just tell a better origin story.

Supermallet
06-18-09, 12:13 PM
I guess technically Hancock wasn't an origin story. It also wasn't very good.

chess
06-18-09, 12:31 PM
The new Hulk didn't really have one. I don't think Daredevil did either.

Edit: Neither did X-men, really.

Palaver
06-18-09, 12:31 PM
I didn't think the '89 Batman had much of his origin...

First thing I thought of. I thought they handled it pretty well. They just dropped us off in the middle of the Batman story after he started his campaign.

Everybody in the theater should already know who Batman is.

devilshalo
06-18-09, 12:45 PM
I didn't think the '89 Batman had much of his origin...
Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? It had both Wayne's origin as well as Jack Napier/Joker. It just didn't have Batman's training sequences.

I don't think Daredevil did either.
Daredevil most certainly had one with Matt on the rooftop as a youngster and finding out about his 'radar'. As well as it deals with how Kingpin played a role.

FinkPish
06-18-09, 01:12 PM
If I recall, didn't the opening credits of The Incredible Hulk give a shorthand account of how the Hulk came about? Plus they still had the first Hulk movie to use as a platform for his origin even if it wasn't identical.

Anubis2005X
06-18-09, 01:47 PM
Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? It had both Wayne's origin as well as Jack Napier/Joker. It just didn't have Batman's training sequences.


Daredevil most certainly had one with Matt on the rooftop as a youngster and finding out about his 'radar'. As well as it deals with how Kingpin played a role.

I guess it just depends on how you look at it. To me, that just seemed more like a flashback from when he was a kid, not really showing much origin for Batman himself. And the whole "bats, they're great survivors" didn't really establish much either.

Then again, we have Batman Begins to compare it with.

FinkPish
06-18-09, 02:01 PM
I guess it just depends on how you look at it. To me, that just seemed more like a flashback from when he was a kid, not really showing much origin for Batman himself. And the whole "bats, they're great survivors" didn't really establish much either.

Then again, we have Batman Begins to compare it with.

To me an origin story just needs to explain why a character is the way he/she is. For most comic book characters they are either already born with some physical difference (X-Men, Daredevil) or something happens to physically change them (The Hulk, The Fantastic Four). Bruce Wayne is a little different because it is a psychological change. His main motivation for becoming Batman is the murder of his parents. Any physical changes after that are based on his psychological condition.

Artman
06-18-09, 02:22 PM
The Incredibles?

Origin stories are the most interesting from a dramatic pov, they lend themselves well to a 3 act story structure.

devilshalo
06-18-09, 02:39 PM
To me an origin story just needs to explain why a character is the way he/she is. For most comic book characters they are either already born with some physical difference (X-Men, Daredevil) or something happens to physically change them (The Hulk, The Fantastic Four).

Daredevil needs to be in the later group. He was struck by the radioactive isotope and developed his senses while also losing his sight.

I would assume that when an Avengers or JLA movie comes out, they (being the writers and directors) may not need to explain origins of those that have not had their own movie.

Hokeyboy
06-18-09, 03:20 PM
Blade wasn't an origin movie. He was dropped into the story as a fait accompli; yeah they showed his Mom in a beginning epilogue being rushed into the hospital after a vampire attack, but that wasn't so much an "origin" as it was a device to "shock" Blade later when he found out she was still alive and in the employ of the villain.

So yeah, I think it can be done, but only with superhero movies that aren't "high concept" or if they are recognizable enough in popular culture to go without... Green Lantern, for example, or The Flash, would necessitate origin stories, but something like Green Arrow or Captain America could do away an entire 1st Act dedicated to origins and instead do some kind of quick, 5-minute recap/flashback thingy.

Think about the 1st Star Wars movie... an opening crawl established an evil Galactic Empire, a heroic Rebellion, a princess with stolen Imperial property, and a menacing weapon of unimaginable power. Not even two minutes into the movie and BAM we got a milieu right then and there.

You could easily do the same with X-Men, or Avengers, or Justice League, or Teen Titans... establish the status quo and history with a quick opening sequence or text crawl, and head right into the heart of the story.

emachine12
06-18-09, 03:22 PM
You could theoritically do movie about a superhero without the origin story but you would need a writer capable of writing a movie that will have the audience not care about it.

Hancock did a job of avoiding the true origin story but the overall result was just bad.

The Dark Knight tried to avoid telling the origin of the Joker with just short bits that didn't really reveal anything. However, even Christopher Nolan had to tell the media that the Joker in this film was inspired by "The Killing Joke" graphic novel and that he gave it to Heath Ledger to read.

kefrank
06-18-09, 04:02 PM
Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? It had both Wayne's origin as well as Jack Napier/Joker. It just didn't have Batman's training sequences.
I don't think the OP was saying that the character's origin shouldn't be referenced at all - just that the plot of the movie was not based around an origin story. The plot of Batman '89 is most certainly not based around Batman's origin.

Numanoid
06-18-09, 05:07 PM
Does the OP mean "new superhero", as in a superhero that has never existed in comics or elsewhere until the movie? If so, then it is unlikely that you would do one without an origin story. Without that connection to the character, why would we care whether he lives or dies or achieves his goals? Besides, superhero movies are built to be franchises, so you'd want to squeeze every possible story out of it that you could.

devilshalo
06-18-09, 05:45 PM
I don't think the OP was saying that the character's origin shouldn't be referenced at all - just that the plot of the movie was not based around an origin story. The plot of Batman '89 is most certainly not based around Batman's origin.

But his origin intertwines with Napier's...

Batman: You killed my parents.
The Joker: What? What? What are you talking about?
Batman: I made you, you made me first.
The Joker: Hey, bat-brain, I mean, I was a kid when I killed your parents. I mean, I say "I made you" you gotta say "you made me." I mean, how childish can you get?