Digital Recorders other than Tivo?
11-28-08, 05:27 PM
#1
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Digital Recorders other than Tivo?
Are there other digital recorders out there other than Tivo? I know AT&T has one, but we have Comcast. Basically, I was wondering if there is something cheaper than Tivo. But it has to be reliable. Or is TIVO basically it, or the best?
I'm just starting to look into them and I'm confused by what all is out there.
I'm just starting to look into them and I'm confused by what all is out there.
Last edited by Lee Harvey Oswald; 11-28-08 at 05:33 PM.
11-28-08, 10:45 PM
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Well, Tivo's the best for interface and usability. But every cable and sat company has their own, too. You can usually get them for around $6-10 per month lease fee with no contract from Comcast.
As to reliability....
Generally, they are all a computer running a proprietary OS. Hard drive problems are the main culprit in hardware failures, and those are unavoidable, just like in any computer. Tivo is the best for this, also, because it's OS is so well known that almost anybody can swap out a new drive with a little help from experienced people. Although, most DVRs are on a lease basis as I mentioned before, so it if breaks, you just swap for a new one.
Unless you meant recording reliability....
Then you will find Dish Network and Tivo are the kings. The cable companies don't seem to try to make their's any better and DirecTV's own brand is up and down.
As to reliability....
Generally, they are all a computer running a proprietary OS. Hard drive problems are the main culprit in hardware failures, and those are unavoidable, just like in any computer. Tivo is the best for this, also, because it's OS is so well known that almost anybody can swap out a new drive with a little help from experienced people. Although, most DVRs are on a lease basis as I mentioned before, so it if breaks, you just swap for a new one.
Unless you meant recording reliability....
Then you will find Dish Network and Tivo are the kings. The cable companies don't seem to try to make their's any better and DirecTV's own brand is up and down.
Last edited by Spiky; 11-29-08 at 05:07 PM. Reason: clarified first comment
11-29-08, 11:25 AM
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I was a TiVo customer about a month after they started. I've owned 6 tivos over the years including a series 3 and an HDTiVo. Several months ago, I recognized that I was going to get layed off and needed to start cutting some costs. I looked at my comcast bill and said this is stupid, they are ripping me off, so I went to look at Verizon to see what I could get comparable and they saved me over $100 a month with FiOS TV and Internet. Part of this was a free HD DVR for a year, so, I replaced my TiVos with the Verizon offering and have never regretted it more. While I can deal with the shortcomings of the FiOS box, the wife cannot, it is pixelated, choppy, needs constant hard-resets and really isn't saving that much money over the old TiVos. Now that I have a new job, paycheck #1 will be devoted to re-introducing TiVo to my house.
11-30-08, 12:41 AM
#4
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I'm glad I got a TiVo early (May of 2000) when you could get a lifetime subscription (for the life of the unit) for $200. Then a few years later I took advantage of an offer to get a Generation 2 TiVo and transfer the subscription to the new one (I've used the first one as a manual recorder ever since; I don't think you can do that with today's units). Neither has given me any problems.
The only problem I have now is that I'd like an HD TiVo but I don't want to pay a monthly subscription, being so spoiled.
Anyway, TiVos are the best from everything I've heard and from my experience, in reliability, features and ease of use.
The only problem I have now is that I'd like an HD TiVo but I don't want to pay a monthly subscription, being so spoiled.
Anyway, TiVos are the best from everything I've heard and from my experience, in reliability, features and ease of use.
11-30-08, 08:38 AM
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Buying through Comcast will probably be quite a bit cheaper. The stand-alone Tivo runs $12.95/mo. Not to mention the up-front cost of the hardware.
That being said, I am a big fan of the Tivo interface. I know Comcast was supposed to be coming out with a Tivo DVR, but since I'm not a Comcast customer I don't know the details or status.
That being said, I am a big fan of the Tivo interface. I know Comcast was supposed to be coming out with a Tivo DVR, but since I'm not a Comcast customer I don't know the details or status.
Last edited by shelland; 11-30-08 at 11:59 AM.
11-30-08, 09:16 AM
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I wouldn't mind getting one to use just like a VCR. Would I lose timer functions or multi-channel recording, etc. How exactly would this "non-subscription" use work? There are quite a few on craigslist that are priced around $50 and I'm considering a purchase. An 80 hour model would suit me just fine.
11-30-08, 10:02 AM
#7
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I wouldn't mind getting one to use just like a VCR. Would I lose timer functions or multi-channel recording, etc. How exactly would this "non-subscription" use work? There are quite a few on craigslist that are priced around $50 and I'm considering a purchase. An 80 hour model would suit me just fine.
I keep the modem connected and it makes calls to TiVo and gets time information to keep the clock right. I'm not sure why that works but I'm not going to ask and push my luck. Without the connection the clock drifts and you can't set it manually. One problem is that after standard time/daylight time changes the clock takes a few days to change so I have to adjust my recordings accordingly until the change kicks in. I get the problem four times each year because it has older programming with the old changes which were three weeks later in the spring and one week earlier in the fall. (Without the subscription you don't get programming updates and you're stuck forever at the programming it had when you ended the subscription.)
11-30-08, 10:21 AM
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The Lifetime option has returned. It is now $3-400. Or $200 to transfer to a new model.
A Panasonic DVDR might be another option to "use just like a VCR". They offer DVD-RAM, which can be good at time-shifting and VCR-like recording. DVRs are superior for really watching TV whenever you want, but a DVDR can help if you only need to record occasionally and want to save some cash.
Comcast has started rolling Tivos out, Chicago, I think. Or CableCard can be used, of course.
DirecTV is going back to Tivo. They have a press release saying Fall 2009 there will be a new HD Tivo.
www.tivocommunity.com is the quintessential Tivo help site on the internet. Could probably find answers more easily by searching there.
A Panasonic DVDR might be another option to "use just like a VCR". They offer DVD-RAM, which can be good at time-shifting and VCR-like recording. DVRs are superior for really watching TV whenever you want, but a DVDR can help if you only need to record occasionally and want to save some cash.
Comcast has started rolling Tivos out, Chicago, I think. Or CableCard can be used, of course.
DirecTV is going back to Tivo. They have a press release saying Fall 2009 there will be a new HD Tivo.
www.tivocommunity.com is the quintessential Tivo help site on the internet. Could probably find answers more easily by searching there.
11-30-08, 10:25 AM
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Yes, you lose all of the word-based recording featuress since it is based on the guide data. No Season Passes, no keyword recordings, etc.
Last edited by Spiky; 11-30-08 at 05:32 PM. Reason: aarrghhh, I keep forgetting words!
11-30-08, 05:05 PM
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Check with Comcast. In my area, Comcast requires you to have their DVR in order to receive an HDTV signal from them, at a cost of $12.95 a month. If you don't get their DVR, you don't get HDTV, period, just a lower-res digital signal. Also, if I'm not mistaken, you can't get cable signals without the cable box or a cable card, so you can no longer program directly from a tuner, even if you get a DVR (non-Comcast). Which makes recording pretty difficult or almost useless, because you have to preset your dedicated box to the channel you want to record (and get a separate box for your non-Comcast DVR), and you can only record from that one channel you've set up. Recording programs is going to be a lot more difficult now that digital/HDTV is here. That's not even getting into the fact that "flagged" programs may or may not be recordable, depending on what the broadcaster wants (and all DVRs recognize flags), or that you have to get a separate DVD recorder if you want to preserve programs, and your DVR may or may not have the right connectors available for that. That's a large reason I'm still on analog cable with a VCR. I'll make them switch me out (for now, they're converting analog, but I'm not sure for how long). I don't want to pay $80+ a month for basic cable if I want to upgrade to true HDTV.
11-30-08, 05:38 PM
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You sound like a candidate for Dish Network, Breton. They are easily the cheapest TV provider, yet have some of the best features and setups. And that sounds horrible for Comcast, it's not nearly that bad here. Non-DVR HD boxes are available here, and the DVRs are $8-10, I think.
The only thing Comcast really has over the sat companies is On Demand. Personally, I have little use for it since I'm into DVRs, but many love it.
The only thing Comcast really has over the sat companies is On Demand. Personally, I have little use for it since I'm into DVRs, but many love it.
11-30-08, 07:15 PM
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Actually, I've been looking into stand-alone DVR's, Phillips or Magnavox, with a DVD recorder already attached. That way I can archive anything I record that I want to save. Unfortunately, I've discovered they won't work with either cable or satellite boxes, other than if you set the channel you want to record on the box. Which would preclude programming to more than one channel if a you're not there to change a channel when necessary. Also, with cable or satellite DVR's, as well as TIVO, you're stuck with the preset programming scheduling, which I've read has sometimes resulted in getting the last minute or two of a program getting cut off if the network schedules it into the next hour, which sometimes happens. I also read conflicting info about whether any of the subscription-type DVRs can be hooked up to an external DVD recorder, as well as whether they have some kind of copyright protection feature that makes copying more difficult or impossible when recording to a DVD. I don't understand why the cable and satellite companies won't let you just use the tuners on your own devices, TV or recorders, without using equipment they provide (and I do imagine it has to do with maximizing revenue as well as copyright issues).
11-30-08, 07:29 PM
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Well, they do let you use those tuners if you have CableCard capability, QAM over cable, or antenna. But the sat/cable tuners are different than the ones in your TV, so they can't do this generally. There were once a few TVs that had built-in DirecTV tuners, but what happens when you want to sell it to someone with a different provider? Or DirecTV upgrades to HD? Or something else? It's just been better for both providers and consumers to keep them separate.
It's unfortunate that the DVDR+HDD models have basically gone away. Only very low-end or no-name models left. Whereas 2 years ago Panny and Pioneer made some excellent models that would work great for you, I imagine.
On programming guides....you are stuck with that for everything. If you have VCR+ or TVGOS, same thing applies as with cable/sat/Tivo. The networks have to actually match program output to what they tell the guide companies, and they are imperfect. It's not that they schedule shows to end late, it's that the schedule doesn't match the reality. Sometimes the guide actually says 7:00-8:02 or whatever. The good news is that they are usually consistent. If Heroes runs a minute long (which it does), then it will most weeks. So you can set your Season Pass or whatever to record an extra minute every week, this is a common feature on DVRs.
Oh, and yes you can record from DVRs to DVDR via Svideo and analog audio. I think there are some flagged shows that might not record as mentioned above, but I've not had a problem yet with my DirecTivos to DVDR. I have about 15 blank discs left in my stack of 100 I bought a couple years ago, most of those used with this method.
It's unfortunate that the DVDR+HDD models have basically gone away. Only very low-end or no-name models left. Whereas 2 years ago Panny and Pioneer made some excellent models that would work great for you, I imagine.
On programming guides....you are stuck with that for everything. If you have VCR+ or TVGOS, same thing applies as with cable/sat/Tivo. The networks have to actually match program output to what they tell the guide companies, and they are imperfect. It's not that they schedule shows to end late, it's that the schedule doesn't match the reality. Sometimes the guide actually says 7:00-8:02 or whatever. The good news is that they are usually consistent. If Heroes runs a minute long (which it does), then it will most weeks. So you can set your Season Pass or whatever to record an extra minute every week, this is a common feature on DVRs.
Oh, and yes you can record from DVRs to DVDR via Svideo and analog audio. I think there are some flagged shows that might not record as mentioned above, but I've not had a problem yet with my DirecTivos to DVDR. I have about 15 blank discs left in my stack of 100 I bought a couple years ago, most of those used with this method.
12-01-08, 07:39 AM
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Some may be interested in this:
http://www.dtvpal.com/
Echostar -- the parent company of Dish Network -- announced today that it would enter the standalone DVR market, leveraging the experience it gained through the development of its Dish Network DVRs. Standalone DVR products will initially be sold under Dish Network brand.
The Dish Network DTVPal DVR is a dual-tuner HDTV DVR that will support SD and HD channels from an antenna. Cable / QAM is not supported. It will allow you watch one HD channel while you record another; it will also record two different HD or SD shows while you watch watch a third, previously recorded show. Recording capacity on the DTVPal DVR is 30 HD hours and 150 SD hours with a 250Gb hard drive. The bundled IR remote includes buttons for 30 sec [commercial] skip, 10 second replay, and supports four speeds of fast forward and reverse, slow motion, and frame-by-frame advance.
The DTVPal DVR will feature a "watered down" version of the Dish Network 622/722 DVR interface with more primitive graphics and recording features. The shipping DTVPal software will support program search and closed captions, but it will be missing several notable features of the Dish Network satellite DVRs. Among the features absent include the 16x9 guide, external storage expansion, picture-in-picture, and the ability to record only new episodes and ignore repeats.
The DTVPal's guide will incorporate program information from TVGuide (TVGOS), if that service is available via CBS datacast in your area (check here). If TVGuide service is not available from your local CBS affiliate, the DTVPal will display the more limited PSIP program information offered by your local broadcasters. Ultimately, Dish Network plans to support MPEG-4 IPTV with their pay VOD service.
The DTVPal DVR will have RF, composite (RCA), component, and HDMI outputs. Output via component and HDMI will be selectable 480p/720p/1080i via a menu. Ethernet and USB ports are present for future use. Despite initial reports to the contrary, USB external drive expansion is not supported out of the box, but that capability may be added with a software update. Software updates to improve and expand functionality will be made available for download over the Internet using the DTVPal's ethernet connection.
The "DTVPal DVR" will be available for pre-order starting November 19 at dtvpal.com, with retail availability slated for mid-December. The MSRP is $299.99, but a $50 rebate will be available. There are no monthly fees and there are no advertisements.
The Dish Network DTVPal DVR is a dual-tuner HDTV DVR that will support SD and HD channels from an antenna. Cable / QAM is not supported. It will allow you watch one HD channel while you record another; it will also record two different HD or SD shows while you watch watch a third, previously recorded show. Recording capacity on the DTVPal DVR is 30 HD hours and 150 SD hours with a 250Gb hard drive. The bundled IR remote includes buttons for 30 sec [commercial] skip, 10 second replay, and supports four speeds of fast forward and reverse, slow motion, and frame-by-frame advance.
The DTVPal DVR will feature a "watered down" version of the Dish Network 622/722 DVR interface with more primitive graphics and recording features. The shipping DTVPal software will support program search and closed captions, but it will be missing several notable features of the Dish Network satellite DVRs. Among the features absent include the 16x9 guide, external storage expansion, picture-in-picture, and the ability to record only new episodes and ignore repeats.
The DTVPal's guide will incorporate program information from TVGuide (TVGOS), if that service is available via CBS datacast in your area (check here). If TVGuide service is not available from your local CBS affiliate, the DTVPal will display the more limited PSIP program information offered by your local broadcasters. Ultimately, Dish Network plans to support MPEG-4 IPTV with their pay VOD service.
The DTVPal DVR will have RF, composite (RCA), component, and HDMI outputs. Output via component and HDMI will be selectable 480p/720p/1080i via a menu. Ethernet and USB ports are present for future use. Despite initial reports to the contrary, USB external drive expansion is not supported out of the box, but that capability may be added with a software update. Software updates to improve and expand functionality will be made available for download over the Internet using the DTVPal's ethernet connection.
The "DTVPal DVR" will be available for pre-order starting November 19 at dtvpal.com, with retail availability slated for mid-December. The MSRP is $299.99, but a $50 rebate will be available. There are no monthly fees and there are no advertisements.
12-01-08, 07:49 AM
#15
Moderator
It may take a little more work, but depending upon how familiar you are w/ setting up computers you can always "roll your own" http://www.mythbuntu.com/
12-01-08, 11:25 PM
#16
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Are there digital recorders other than Tivo? Yes. I have the original Tivo, but I also have an HD DVR made by Sony. It's a few years old now and still going strong. No subscription necessary. It will accept a cable card if I want to start paying for digital cable, but I prefer to get my HD programming for free with rabbit ears. It has TV Guide built into it, and it records up to 30 hrs. of HD or 200 hrs. of SD.
