Jersey314

Hi guys (and gals), new poster here with sort of a general question about home theater setup (please keep in mind that I am just familiarizing myself with the different options and all of the terminology).

I finally purchased an HDTV (the Panasonic TH-58PZ800U), it's being delivered in a few days. I currently have a surround sound setup, however, my receiver is a little old. It's a Denon AVR 1802. Unfortunately, the receiver doesn't have any HDMI inputs and it's only 5.1.

I've been reading through the forums (and learning a LOT from all of you guys) and, from my understanding, it sounds like I have two options if I want to get Dolby True HD and/or other new technologies while using Blu-Ray:
1. Keep my receiver and instead get a Blu ray player that can internally decode Dolby True HD (like the Sony S550) and then some how hook that up in some way to my Denon so that I can hear Dolby True HD despite the lack of an HDMI connection from my Blu Ray to my receiver or
2. Get a new receiver with HDMI input (I'm hearing the Onkyo TX-SR606 is a good choice) and get a Playstation 3 (which I wouldn't mind as I hear that it is a quality Blu Ray player).

Am I understanding all of this correctly? I would love to hear your opinions. Thanks guys!

Mr. Salty

You would connect it via the 5.1 analog outputs, assuming your receiver has a 5.1 analog input.

If you get a new receiver there's no reason to restrict yourself to a PS3. You can pair it with any Blu-ray player.

Jersey314

Thanks for the response Mr. Salty. I know that I can pair a new receiver with any Blu-Ray player. I'm just thinking that if I go that route and get a new receiver, I will probably want to get a PS3 because of all of the great things I'm hearing about it as a Blu-Ray player (and maybe I'll pick up a game or two as well although I'm not that big on video games).

I guess, my question is do you think it's worth it to buy a new receiver or would it be sufficient to buy a blu-ray player that would be able to connect to my old receiver via analog? Will the sound quality be comparable either way? At this point, I'm leaning toward buying the Onkyo receiver.

Sdallnct

And I'll ask what I always ask on these threads: what speakers do you have?

Denon makes an excellent sounding receiver. So the only reason to upgrade is to go lossless, right? I mean you do know you can connect a PS3 or any BD player directly to your video source and use optical (or coaxial I always forget) to your Denon and get very nice surround sound (including DTS).

Lossless is great. I like it. But you really have to have a nice set up to appreciate it. In most cases you will see a greater improvement in sound by upgrading your speakers then upgrading your receiver to go with lossless. And as mentioned, if your current receiver has 5.1 analog in's, you could get a BD player with analog outs and keep your currently receiver and then get the newest audio formats.

Jersey314

I have Polk audio speakers (not sure what model) and a Klipsch subwoofer. Are they high enough in quality to appreciate lossless?

I realize that Denon is a quality receiver, but the Onkyo TX-SR606 wouldn’t be a downgrade in overall quality would it? I assumed that Denon and Onkyo are equivalent in quality? Also, in addition to getting state of the art sound, I thought it would be easier to be able to connect my components to my receiver via HDMI rather than multiple analog cords. I also thought this would give me the opportunity to get two additional speakers and expand to 7.1 if I decide to do so.

Another quick question for you: For the time being (with my old non-HDMI receiver), I am planning to hook my cable box directly into my plasma via HDMI when I get it. How can I then hook up my TV to the receiver for surround sound? Should I just plug the audio analogs (red and white) into the receiver and leave out the video (yellow)? Should I instead plug the audio analogs directly from the cable box to the receiver? I know this is very basic stuff, but I really am this ignorant when it comes to this stuff (although I am learning).

RM811

I don't think I have terrible equipment but not top of the line either and lossless is great. The bass is incredible and really adds to the intense action scenes when the whole room shakes. Major improvement over optical in my opinion. The dialogue seems to come through a lot less distorted so it is much easier to hear at lower volumes if necessary.

SUPERMANROB

So what equipment do you have?

SoSpacey

Your Denon has analog outs so buying a new receiver is not a necessity. If you were o na super tight budget I might suggest you just keep it and buy a player that decodes. But it doesnt sound like your budget is too tight.

If you have the money to upgrade the receiver I say do it for the simple fact that you can get rid of so many wires.

Also, your cable box should have some type of digital audio out. You can feed that right to the receiver and then use a single wire to go to your television.

Where are you from in North Jersey?

Why are you set on Onkyo? There are Denons in that price range as well as Yamahas you could look at as well.

Jersey314

Thanks for the info guys.

SoSpacey, that was my thinking with the wires. It'll make things a lot neater and will make it easier for me to hook it all up (trust me, with my very limited experience hooking this stuff up it's gonna be a challenge, I might need to refer to you guys for help when the time comes). It'll also give me the option to eventually get two more speakers if I want to upgrade to 7.1. Also, it sounds like I can get PS3 and still get lossless through my receiver by upgrading. What do you think of PS3 as a blu-ray player? Is that a good way to go?

I'm not 100% committed to Onkyo, but I've read very positive reviews and have heard such good things about it from everyone on these boards. Do you know of any specific receivers that you think are better alternatives at that price range?

BTW, I'm from Scotch Plains in Union County. I guess it's technically North Central NJ, but I work in Newark and spend most of my time in North Jersey. Where are you from?

Spiky

Hmm...the bass is really going to see the least benefit from lossless. High-end is where I here the most difference. Right up to the point where I can tell my speakers aren't really as good as I would like. Shaking just comes from movies with lots of bass, a decent sub, placed properly, and turning it up.

Sounds more like you are comparing lossless to stereo, rather than the old Dolby/DTS.

Sdallnct

Personally, I put Denon above Onkyo in sound quality. And Onkyo above Denon in features for the money. But it is close, I guess.

There are many a Polk speaker. But I'm not familiar with any of them. You would have to say which one's and let someone who knows them, speak to that.

Hooking up without HDMI receiver is easy. You just remember "video goes directly to TV, audio goes directly to receiver".

Your HD dish/cable receiver should have digital audio. I actually have my HD dish receiver going to both. Meaning HDMI goes to my TV and carries both audio and video. But then I have digital optical going to my surround receiver. That way I can watch TV with or without the receiver on.

DthRdrX

I might as well post my situation and see what advice fellow dvdtalkers would suggest.

I have a full Klipsch Reference system, RVX series, except for the subwoofer.
I've been using the same receiver and subwoofer from the Kenwood HTB-505 HTIB package I bought in 2002. The receiver is a Kenwood VR-606.

I really need to upgrade the subwoofer so that really isn't the issue. I'll be ordering one within the next month. Does anyone think I will notice any difference in sound quality by upgrading the receiver as well?

I've been looking at the Pioneer 1018, but would be open to suggestions. I'd really like HDMI upconversion in any unit I decide on.

Thanks!

Spiky

You may see a little improvement. But the sub would probably help more. What sub are you getting?

TylerDurden_73

I wouldn't go the Playstation 3 route. To me the only benefit is faster load times. If you want an impressive Blu-Ray player go to the Panasonic DMP-BD55. It is the better at upconverting SD-DVD and is only $399., same price as the Playstation. The Onkyo 606 has four hdmi inputs, CHeck what the other receivers have before committing. You'll need all four. The 606 can be had for between $340-$399 so that with your speakers you have will still sound great. http://dvdtalk.pricegrabber.com/sear...duct/sv=button I'll say it again the 606 is the best AV receiver for the budget home theater or for someone who doesn't want to pay for a name over quality. Also, don't forget the cables. Monoprice.com has HDMI cables for good prices. http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...02&cp_id=10240

SoSpacey

The PS3 is a great player and worth the money if you will be taking advantages of the other features built in. If you are only looking for something to play Blu-rays on, then I agree with Tyler's recommendation of the Panny BD-55.

Some of the other things you can do with a PS3...

-Play games
-Stream music, pictures and video (home video/avi's) from your computer
-Stream Netflix (soon), Hulu

But if you dont see yourself using any of the above features, go with the Panasonic. You can even connect it via analog for now until you find the right receiver to upgrade. Or skip the receiver upgrade for now and upgrade soem speakers. There are a ton of possibilities.

Without knowing which Polks you have it is tough to say if the lossless is worth it. Some Polks are much better than others. I think you will hear the difference no matter what. But that is relative.

I live in Nutley in Essex County.

Check out the Yamaha rx-v663.

Jersey314

Thanks for the info Tyler! In your opinion, do you think that the Onkyo 606 is a major downgrade in quality from my old Denon AVR 1802? If it is, then I might want to hold off on getting the Onkyo (although I'm really torn and I keep going back and forth).

As for HDMI cables, I've heard that the monster cables are a rip off, but does it matter at all how much you spend? I bought a HDMI cable to connect my cable box to my TV from amazon for literally 98 cents (the shipping actually cost more than the cable). I read people's reviews on amazon and everyone had good things to say about it.

Jersey314

Thanks for the tip! The Yamaha appears to only have 2 HDMI inputs vs. 4 on the Onkyo. Do you think 2 will be enough?

SoSpacey

get your cables from monoprice.com. monster is overpriced and unnecessary. i think everyone who posts here buys from monoprice now, except one dude from hoboken who works for blue jeans cables.

hdmi is just a digital signal of 1s and 0s. analog cable are a different story although monoprice does well with most of those too.

the quality of your Denon and this Onkyo will be comparable.


i never even realized the yamaha only had 2. eh. my receiver has 2 and I just use a switcher from monoprice. if you are buying now you may as well get something with 4. even with the 2 HDMIs i still think the yamaha is a bit better than that onkyo but not by much.

DthRdrX

I was looking at the PB12-NSD from SVS. My room is fairly small, 10x15x7, but I might move it into a larger room in another year or so.

I'm up for any sub suggestions if anyone has them! Thanks.

nmr1723

I just want to reiterate what Sdallnct said about making sure you have a nice setup to appreciate lossless audio. I would definitely do some research on your Polk speakers to see if they are "up for" a new receiver. I'm waiting to upgrade myself for this very same reason.

I love my speakers (Athena AS-C1 & AS-B1's paired with a Pioneer VSX-1014 & AS-P400 sub)...but I really don't think they are capable of producing "better" sound if given a lossless audio track. These speakers were an upgrade over and old Athena system (pt5)...and the difference was huge for me. Just make sure you have decent speakers before shelling out cash for a new receiver. Heck, if you get the Panny BD55 you can hook up the analog outs to your current receiver and hear lossless before spending the cash on a new Denon, Onkyo, or Yamaha.

Last thing...so very jealous of your new display...I would love to get a Panny TH-58PZ800U....

TylerDurden_73

I don't think the Onkyo is a downgrade in quality from a Denon at all. Not all receivers are the same. I only know from my expierience that the onkyo sounds phenomenal. It was a true step up from my last receiver which was a Sony DG series. I have heard older Denon models in the past and they sounded good. I only know from with my own hearing, and that is the Onkyo is the best sounding receiver (to me) under $500.00. And...I think going more expensive with less HDMI inputs, and less features than the Onkyo is crazy. I suggest finding a good AV store and seeing what models, features and sound quality you can find. I know there in NJ their are some fine stores. Just do the research. Be as informed as you can be and then you will be happy with your purchases.

Sdallnct

It depends on what you want. I like the value of Onkyo. But I'd still take the Denon if ultimate sound quality was important.

You should also consider the H/K. For less then $400 shipped it is a nice set. "only" 3 HDMI, but excellent, excellent sound quality. I'm a H/K pimp and use two right now.

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-...dp/B0016BGRX6#

For cables, I'd pretty much only recommend Monoprice....

Jersey314

Thanks for the tip Sdallnct. Do you agree with any of the comments left on amazon about the H/K (regarding the regular loss in audio/video signal while blu-rays are playing)?

Sdallnct

Well my H/K's are older models with no HDMI at all. Sooooo...not sure they apply. Mine have never been a problem.