When will we see the next generation of Blu-ray players?

[Snowmaker]

I keep reading how inferior, slower, etc. all stand-alone players are compared to the PS3. Also how some players do not do the best job with DVD upconversion. I really don't want a PS3 and don't want to make the jump until a good BR player gets around $200 or less.

I was really tempted to jump on that Samsung BD-P1500 that's on sale this week with the Matrix collection, but I'm afraid in a year or so it will be quite obsolete due to new ones out with better technology.

Any thoughts?

[SoSpacey]

I dont think anyone can accurately answer your question. Players are getting faster every day. Even the older players are getting firmware updates that make them faster for start-up.

Do you have an HDMI receiver?

[Snowmaker]

Do you have an HDMI receiver?

I don't have a receiver yet, why?

[SoSpacey]

I don't have a receiver yet, why?

Ah. Because if you did have one, depending on the receiver you had I would have spoken about specific players.

Bly-ray is great for video, but you are missing out on something without the audio.

Anyway, I wouldn't go crazy worrying about the technology. It won't be obsolete in a year. Without a receiver I would just worry about picking up a player that does Blu-ray video well.

What are you using for DVDs? Can't you continue to use that to upconvert and just use the Blu-ray player for Blu-ray?

What about the Sony 350?

[SUPERMANROB]

Snowmaker I think one of the things spacey is getting at is either your AVR or the BD player has to decode the new HD Audio. I don't think the 1500 will but that is one of the things everyone likes about the PS3(it does).
I was in the same boat as you and didn't want to spend over $200 for a player( I didn't want a PS3 either). I wanted a stand alone player that will bit stream DTS HD/MA for no more than $200. I'm being a little more specific since I already have a AVR(3808) that decodes all the new HD audio and has HDMI inputs on it.
So I couldn't go with the 1500(and hasn't received the greatest reviews either). Well I ended buying Sony's S350 yesterday(used the Sony CC $150 off offer :) ) I have only watched two movies so far but it seems like a pretty good player and I think it has all the new gadgets(that most likely won't use) on it. With the Sony deal I got it for a good price :D

[Snowmaker]

I do plan to get a receiver soon. Just trying to decide which one and also waiting for Black Friday.

[Spiky]

don't want to make the jump until a good BR player gets around $200 or less.
.....

Any thoughts?

I agree with SoSpacey. You haven't defined "good". And you don't seem to have stringent audio and video needs, so what's wrong with the current $200 players?

BTW, the PS3 isn't exactly fast to load a BD. BD is slow. Try not to get caught up in the fanboyism. It hasn't cured cancer or anything.

[SoSpacey]

I agree with SoSpacey. You haven't defined "good". And you don't seem to have stringent audio and video needs, so what's wrong with the current $200 players?

BTW, the PS3 isn't exactly fast to load a BD. BD is slow. Try not to get caught up in the fanboyism. It hasn't cured cancer or anything.

I LOVE my PS3...especially since I dont use a media PC. Blu-ray playback is flawless, the load speeds are fast enough where I don't even think twice about it, I stream movies, music and pictures from my PC and now I just added the Netflix software which allows me to instant watch Netflix movies/TV shows instantly on my television. Once in a while I throw a game in.

It's perfect for my situation but not perfect for everyone. I didn't bring it up to the OP because it seemed like he was set against it. There are other good solutions out there but I honestly think the closer you get to the $400 mark, the easier it is to justify.

But yeah, depending on the player he buys will depend on the receiver he can get. Heck, he can get any receiver with analog inputs if he gets a player with analog outs. Not that I would recommend that but so many people are unloading top of the line HT receivers for dirt cheap because they have no HDMI or internal processing.

The general Blu-ray solution in this forum seems to be PS3-Onkyo 605/606. There are many other ways to go with it.

[Snowmaker]

So analog inputs/outputs, not HDMI, are best for audio? I'm confused now.

Is that the way to utilize Dolby or DTS HD audio?

I want to get a sound system that will utilize the full potential of whatever audio tracks are offered on a BR disk, so I don't want to settle on something that doesn't decode Dolby True HD or DTS HD (or whatever their specific names are).

[SoSpacey]

So analog inputs/outputs, not HDMI, are best for audio?

Is that the only way to utilize Dolby or DTS HD audio?

absolutely not.

there are different ways to handle HD-audio.

1- if you have an older receiver with analog inputs, and you have a blu-ray player with analog outputs that can decode all of the HD-audio formats, you let the player decode and send the decoded signal to the analog inputs of the receiver.

2- if you have HDMI on both the receiver and player, you can send the raw signal to the receiver (as long as it can decode all of the HD-audio formats) and then the receiver will decode it for you.

[kefrank]

So analog inputs/outputs, not HDMI, are best for audio? I'm confused now.
no, not necessarily. it's just a cheaper route to go, because you can get an older AVR with analog ins for a lot less money than the current HDMI-capable receivers. that being said, the D/A converters in a standalone Blu-ray player are most likely not as good as those you would find in a decent AVR, so if you're concerned about the best sound quality, HDMI to a good AVR is probably the way to go. as for whether the decoding of Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA should be done in the player or the AVR, I personally don't think it matters.

Is that the way to utilize Dolby or DTS HD audio?
There are three main ways to get Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA, depending on the capabilities of your Blu-ray player and AVR:
1. Player decodes it internally and D/As the audio to six discrete analog outs connected to the discrete analog inputs of the AVR, where all that's left is to amplify the sound
2. Player decodes it internally and sends the PCM over HDMI to the AVR, where it is D/A'd and amplified
3. Player bitstreams the Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD-MA to the AVR where it is decoded, D/A'd and amplified

I want to get a sound system that will utilize the full potential of whatever audio tracks are offered on a BR disk, so I don't want to settle on something that doesn't decode Dolby True HD or DTS HD (or whatever their specific names are).
Any of the three options above will give you the full lossless audio that Blu-ray offers. If you have a really keen ear, you'll want to choose the player or the AVR with the best D/A converter and make sure you're doing the D/A in that component.

[Snowmaker]

Thanks. Guess I still have more research to do.

And I thought the TV was going to be the hard part. :(

[SoSpacey]

Thanks. Guess I still have more research to do.

And I thought the TV was going to be the hard part. :(

The easiest way to do it is to tell us your total budget and let the edumacated forum members choose a system for you. :)

[Snowmaker]

The easiest way to do it is to tell us your total budget and let the edumacated forum members choose a system for you. :)

I had that in my other thread. http://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-home-theater-gear/536961-almost-ready-my-first-hd-ht-system-where-begin.html

Damn! Amazon has the Onkyo 606 for $356 right now. I think that's the best price I've seen for it so far.

[SoSpacey]

I just skimmed through that whole thread.

Did you ever decide on a receiver? Speakers?

Any reason you specifically DONT want a PS3?

Are you connecting a media PC to your LCD?

What are you connecting to your receiver?

What are you doing about music in that basement?

[Snowmaker]

I just skimmed through that whole thread.

Did you ever decide on a receiver? Speakers?

Any reason you specifically DONT want a PS3?

Are you connecting a media PC to your LCD?

What are you connecting to your receiver?

What are you doing about music in that basement?

I'm pretty sure I want the Onkyo 606. No on speakers yet.

I don't want to spend $400 for a blu-ray player. I don't play enough games anymore to really make it worth it.

Haven't fully decided on how I'll play music yet, but I'm not too concerned with that right now. My computer will be in the room right next door. May just run an ethernet wire or something wireless.

[kefrank]

Here's what I would recommend to you:

Blu-ray player: Sony BDP-S350
Available for ~$250 from lots of places online (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=sony+bdp-S350&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2505697872800857502&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&resnum=1&ct=result#ps-sellers).

AVR: Onkyo TX-SR606 ($350 from Amazon) or
Pioneer VSX-1018AH ($450 from Amazon, may be cheaper elsewhere)

[Snowmaker]

I wish the Black Friday ads would hurry up and leak out. I really would like to wait till then if possible. I've just got the itch. :(

[gimmepilotwings]

They have and the Samsung 1500 is rumored at $150.

[Snowmaker]

They have and the Samsung 1500 is rumored at $150.

If you could PM me a link then I'd appreciate. I've read the report that that player will be $150, but I want to see actual ads.

[timewaster]

i have an older receiver with no HDMI and analog inputs.
I'm wondering if MasterAudio or TrueHD are worth the extra money i need to pay for a blueray player with good D/A and to decode those.

I cannot tell the difference between DTS and dolby digital.
Does the lossless really make a big difference from DTS/DolbyDigital? Can most people hear the difference and is it significant?

[SoSpacey]

i have an older receiver with no HDMI and analog inputs.
I'm wondering if MasterAudio or TrueHD are worth the extra money i need to pay for a blueray player with good D/A and to decode those.

I cannot tell the difference between DTS and dolby digital.
Does the lossless really make a big difference from DTS/DolbyDigital? Can most people hear the difference and is it significant?

yes and yes.

but the player doesnt matter if your receiver has no analog ins nor hdmi.

[Superman07]

yes and yes.

but the player doesnt matter if your receiver has no analog ins nor hdmi.

I think he meant my receiver does not have HDMI, but it does have analog audio inputs. He just worded the sentence incorrectly.

[Easy]

I keep reading how inferior, slower, etc. all stand-alone players are compared to the PS3. Also how some players do not do the best job with DVD upconversion. I really don't want a PS3 and don't want to make the jump until a good BR player gets around $200 or less.


I hear you. Fortunately, I also play games and grabbed a PS3 for $300 when Walmart had the sale this past summer. I would love to have a stand alone BD but none seem to upscale DVD all that well. I'm holding out for a well done Silicon Optix solution that doesn't cost $2K.

[Joe Schmoe]

no, not necessarily. it's just a cheaper route to go, because you can get an older AVR with analog ins for a lot less money than the current HDMI-capable receivers. that being said, the D/A converters in a standalone Blu-ray player are most likely not as good as those you would find in a decent AVR, so if you're concerned about the best sound quality, HDMI to a good AVR is probably the way to go. as for whether the decoding of Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA should be done in the player or the AVR, I personally don't think it matters.


There are three main ways to get Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA, depending on the capabilities of your Blu-ray player and AVR:
1. Player decodes it internally and D/As the audio to six discrete analog outs connected to the discrete analog inputs of the AVR, where all that's left is to amplify the sound
2. Player decodes it internally and sends the PCM over HDMI to the AVR, where it is D/A'd and amplified
3. Player bitstreams the Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD-MA to the AVR where it is decoded, D/A'd and amplified


Any of the three options above will give you the full lossless audio that Blu-ray offers. If you have a really keen ear, you'll want to choose the player or the AVR with the best D/A converter and make sure you're doing the D/A in that component.

My player is the PS3. Which of those 3 methods does it use for HD audio? I may soon be shopping for a receiver that can handle HD audio, but I'm not sure what to look for. Thanks.

[Spiky]

i have an older receiver with no HDMI and analog inputs.
I'm wondering if MasterAudio or TrueHD are worth the extra money i need to pay for a blueray player with good D/A and to decode those.

I cannot tell the difference between DTS and dolby digital.
Does the lossless really make a big difference from DTS/DolbyDigital? Can most people hear the difference and is it significant?

Well, the main difference between DTS and DD is 4 decibels. If you can't hear that.....I really don't know what to say, because it's really obvious.

The "good D/A" players are now $400 (recommend the Panny BD55 right now), the decent players without analog out are $300 and the cheap stuff is low $200s. So the extra isn't all that much, esp since the main recomendation of everyone here is the $400 PS3. But all the Funai clones should be worthwhile if you aren't worried about fancy audio.

[Spiky]

My player is the PS3. Which of those 3 methods does it use for HD audio? I may soon be shopping for a receiver that can handle HD audio, but I'm not sure what to look for. Thanks.

#2, decodes and sends PCM via HDMI. Most receivers that came out this year should be compatible. There are about a billion threads on the first page right now about that question, if you'd like some reading.

[beebs]

Oppo player is coming. And Netflix promises to bundle it's Watch Instantly with more Blu-ray players. Recorders are coming. With network in these Blu-Ray players -- I see them playing content off the your PC/HTPC/server sooner or later, too.

There's a never ending parade of new Blu-ray players coming as long as the format exists.

2-3 years, players will have more features for less than half of today's prices. Longer you wait, the more you'll get for your money.

-beebs

[shaun3000]

I just added the Netflix software which allows me to instant watch Netflix movies/TV shows instantly on my television.What?? What software is this??

[RockyMtnBri]

Joe Schmoe...

In my set up, the answer is 2. I have my audio settings for PCM, and the PS3 does the decoding and send it to my receiver. This just means that I never see the fancy indicators on my receiver that show the sound type (other than Linear PCM) but hitting the display button on the PS3 shows me what it's decoding.

[RockyMtnBri]

shaun3000...

I'm with you - WHAT Netflix software for the PS3?

[shaun3000]

I think this is it:
http://www.themediamall.com/playon

[Snowmaker]

I think this is it:
http://www.themediamall.com/playon


Maybe not.

[SoSpacey]

Maybe not.

That is it. It was free when I downloaded it and once they do a full release it will be $30...well worth it in my opinion.

PlayOn enables consumers who own a PLAYSTATION 3, Xbox 360, or HP MediaSmart TV to access content from sites including Netflix, Hulu, CBS, YouTube, ESPN and more on their television. We have just released PlayOn Beta, and the fully featured release will be coming shortly!

Downloaded it to my PC which is connected to my router via a wired connection. My PS3 then displays the software as a Server, just like Orb. Then I can download and watch movies/TV shows right on my plasma. Obviously it is not HD quality but people have been saying it is DVD quality. I only want it for TV shows really and maybe the occasional SD-only movie or something I have watched like 10 times.

Tonight will be my first run at it. I will report back tomorrow.

[RockyMtnBri]

Fascinating - maybe I'll give it a shot.

[SoSpacey]

My report back is uneventful. My PS3 recognized it as a network drive but the folder contained nothing.

i thought I would be able to "go online" with the software and locate what I wanted to watch. That wasn't the case though.

I am assuming I have to initiate it from my PC, download it and then it will show up on my PS3 as available. If that is the case it won't be as convenient for me since my network PC is in the basement. I guess I can switch the software over to my laptop but it just adds another layer and another location to make me more decentralized.

[Joe Schmoe]

#2, decodes and sends PCM via HDMI. Most receivers that came out this year should be compatible. There are about a billion threads on the first page right now about that question, if you'd like some reading.

Thanks!

[Joe Schmoe]

Joe Schmoe...

In my set up, the answer is 2. I have my audio settings for PCM, and the PS3 does the decoding and send it to my receiver. This just means that I never see the fancy indicators on my receiver that show the sound type (other than Linear PCM) but hitting the display button on the PS3 shows me what it's decoding.

Thanks! Which brand/model receiver do you have? Do you hear much of a difference between lossless and DD/DTS?

[Brian Shannon]

Thanks! Which brand/model receiver do you have? Do you hear much of a difference between lossless and DD/DTS?

I would also want to know what speakers are being used as they are far more important.

[Joe Schmoe]

I would also want to know what speakers are being used as they are far more important.

Currently, I have the Onkyo HT-R520 receiver and the Onkyo SKF-520F speakers (130 watts power with impedance of 8 ohms). In another thread, someone else advised me to upgrade my speakers. Upgraded speakers would be nice, but I still wouldn't have lossless audio or 7.1 surround. What brand do you recommend?

[fumanstan]

So going back to the initial question, and I suppose this would really be more specific to the HD forum, but is Blu-ray "feature complete" now with 2.0? Yeah there will probably be players that improve on load times, and the usual differences that we have now with different players including analog or not, but those are all minor functional differences to me. Is there the chance of future profile revisions?

I notice on wikipedia that Profile 3.0 is just BD-Audio. Also future increases in disc size.

[Spiky]

Yes, there is a chance of future revisions. But I don't think there are any major planned ones. Unlike BD-Live, which was basically known from before launch in one form or another, and finally arrived in Profile 2. Should be a good time to jump in, I'd say.

[SUPERMANROB]

Currently, I have the Onkyo HT-R520 receiver and the Onkyo SKF-520F speakers (130 watts power with impedance of 8 ohms). In another thread, someone else advised me to upgrade my speakers. Upgraded speakers would be nice, but I still wouldn't have lossless audio or 7.1 surround. What brand do you recommend?

I would agree......I would recommend upgrading your speakers first before going lossless.
As far as speakers I would determine a decent price range and then find your local speciality AV stores near you, take material your very familiar with and go audition speakers in that price range. You might end up going over your budget(like we did :) ) but you would have to determine if it's worth it to you to do so. How this helps

[Snowmaker]

Are "average" speakers not able to handle lossless audio?

[SoSpacey]

Are "average" speakers not able to handle lossless audio?

anything can handle lossless audio. the argument is that there isnt much value in HD-audio if your speakers are still meh. its like putting Nitrous on a Yugo. Save it for when you upgrade to a Mustang.


what do you consider average?