Economy down = DVD industry down?

[moviehead21]

Do you believe we will be seeing DVD based companies going out of business soon such as ColumbiaHouse or DVDPlanet? Just wondering about it..

[Mister Peepers]

We've already seen smaller places going down. Tartan comes to mind.

I don't think large places like the ones you mentioned have anything to worry about, mostly smaller, niche type places.

Columbie House has been around for decades.

[DVD Polizei]

ColumbiaHouse will never go out of business. If they sold all their DVDs for a few bucks, they'd still make a profit.

[The Cow]

The better ones with good business models came out of the internet shopping boom of the early 00s and have done well. I don't see them shutting down. The good ones are also 'international friendly'.

Why do you ask, anyway?

[moviehead21]

Just out of curiosity.

[darthdelegate]

Just out of curiosity.

So what's the point of this thread?

[Mr. Salty]

So what's the point of this thread?

I think the OP has a valid concern. Although Columbia House is clearly big enough and well-established enough that it's not in danger, many smaller, independent e-tailers and studios could face problems if they can't borrow the money they need to finance various projects.

If you don't think a thread is worthy, why even bother to read it?

[The Cow]

Not a retailer, but one significant something I <i>could</i> see have problems that would impact end buyers/collectors is Criterion.

I don't know their internals at all, but home media is at a turning point right now, and their Laser Disc/DVD market still remains to be seen as to where they are headed (yes, I know they have BD plans, but to what extent).

Can their niche survive?

[jdslater1]

So what's the point of this thread?

But are not nearly every question asked on a forum out of curiosity?!

[Subgeniusguy]

Has anyone curtailed their DVD spending becasue of the economy. I haven't. The only thing that's changed in my economic situation is that my retirement account is riding the rollercoaster. My income and expenditures have not changed, therefore I'm still buying the shiny discs.

[David Lambert]

As both a longtime (and quite overzealous) DVD collector, as well as a longtime industry observer (I'm the News Director of TVShowsOnDVD.com, a website that started on 11/1/2001, and was purchased by TV Guide on 2/15/2007), here are a few quick thoughts that might help the conversation:

* Home videos, and movie theaters as well, are most certainly "luxury" item categories; ones we don't "need to survive". They are neither food, clothing nor shelter. If people can't afford it, they won't buy it.

* During the Great Depression of about eighty years ago, however, the movie industry saw GROWTH. The most common explanation was that seeing a film at the theater was inexpensive, and took peoples' minds off of their troubles; letting them escape to a fantasy world for an hour or two. These days, DVD players can be had for as little as $20-$30, and DVDs as cheap as $1-$6. It seems like the same principle would apply.

* The REAL challenge right now for studios that make DVDs is this: the industry is changing. The question isn't so much "should we, the studio, invest in Blu-ray?" but instead rather "how much should we invest in Blu-ray?" What about download-to-own plans like iTunes, Amazon's thing (formerly "Unbox" but they just changed it to something else), etc.? What about burn-on-demand kiosks that keep getting talked about? What about Toshiba's new burn-on-demand plan that uses SD Cards (like you find in digital cameras) instead of DVDs (hey, Nintendo's new DSi system just announced in Japan will have an SD slot!). What's a poor studio to invest their money, time and resources in? If they gamble wrong, it could mean "belly up!"

* For a company to put product out, they have to own properties that people want to buy. As the vast majority of big-name films and TV shows are mostly already out, with fewer and fewer exceptions, where is the content going to come from? The answer is that the studios would have to choose material that they passed over before in deciding to release it. Some of that was because the item needed restoration (costs money), needs legal/licensing work done (costs money), a related release - such as a Season 1 set of a show - didn't sell well enough so they need to lower expectations for Season 2 (means less income resulting from the same amount of work), etc. In other words, the upcoming titles are likely to mean less profit for the studios...unless they charge more for the releases. Which ain't gonna sit will with the consumers, especially in tough economic times!

* Sure, that tough economy and the bad stock prices that go with it when the Dow Jones average tumbles (as it has been) is also a big challenge, too!

* On the other hand, Blu-ray is doing REALLY well, despite some media stories saying otherwise. It's gotten to its current point of industry penetration and status a LOT faster than DVD did. For all the people who were upset about certain studios (Paramount, Universal) not supporting Blu-ray "until the last minute", y'all forget how long it took studios like Fox and Disney to support DVD in the first place! And prices on Blu-ray players, and releases, are already cheaper now than DVD players and releases were this many months/years after the launch of DVD. Everyone who bought a flat-screen TV because that was the thing to get, is now realizing that they can get a BETTER picture out of it - a high-def picture, and often one crisper (at 1080p rather than 780p) than they can get from what comes "over the wire" (or air, whatever service you use) - by hooking up a BD player (using the proper cables of course) and paying an extra $5 for the BD version of the film. It's a growing thing for people who can afford it (and many people still can, despite the money woes in many areas). A studio that can put out BD content that is compelling for people to buy will have a market for a while to come yet.


So all those things I've mentioned are factors in whether a home video company will still be around in a few years. It's not really any one thing, like "the economy is down". It's a number of factors that will determine if any given studio can stick around despite that problem.

Someone mentioned Criteria. They have access to a decent number of desirable titles, and are well thought of among the major studios and therefore should have very few problems, IMHO, in getting further licenses for content to put out. Add that to the fact that Criterion fans are VERY interested in getting high-definition Blu-ray Disc versions of titles that Criterion has to offer, and they ought to be all right. I think so, anyway.

That's my 2 cents for today. Feel free to tell me how wrong I am; I don't mind. ;)

[iamiam]

That's my 2 cents for today. Feel free to tell me how wrong I am; I don't mind. ;)

You're wrong :lol:

















It's 720, not 780p.

[Mr. Salty]

It's 720, not 780p.
It's also Criterion, not Criteria!

But other than those nitpicks, David makes some good points. In a tight economy, buying or renting a movie is a cheaper form of entertainment than a lot of other options.

My concern is more about companies being able to get credit or loans for projects.

[ernestrp]

Of course, if the economy is bad so will be Dvd sales. Probably worse for high end titles like Criterion and Blu-ray titles.

[calhoun07]

I know movies did better during the depression, but that's because that was the only way to see movies during the depression. So while it would seem the entertainment industry grows during a bad economy because people want the escapism, today it is so diverse that something will have to give.

I actually would think the theaters would do worse if the economy continued to tank, because if families looked at the ticket costs compared to waiting a few months to get the movie on DVD, many more will opt to wait. And like David pointed out, you can get movies for under ten bucks with ease these days. Even new releases often go down under the price of one movie ticket within a few months of release.

But something will have to give. I think the rental business may not do as well as it used to. Blockbuster type stores just won't do as well in a bad economy, because who can afford to pay five bucks a rental when you can wait and buy the same movie for the same price? Or perhaps they will download it on demand from a service that is cheaper.

I think DVD will do OK if they just scale back a bit and don't flood the market with so many new titles each week. If retailers have a harder time getting new product in because it's harder to get those business loans, then flooding the market with a lot of new stuff won't be very effective.

But certainly a bad economy means we should see some companies fail in these times...it's just bound to happen.

[davidh777]

Has anyone curtailed their DVD spending becasue of the economy. I haven't. The only thing that's changed in my economic situation is that my retirement account is riding the rollercoaster. My income and expenditures have not changed, therefore I'm still buying the shiny discs.

Hasn't had a huge effect on me, but I do admit to thinking a bit harder about a purchase and if I can live with a rental or stream instead

[Josh-da-man]

Columbie House has been around for decades.

ColumbiaHouse will never go out of business. If they sold all their DVDs for a few bucks, they'd still make a profit.

Don't be so sure.

About three or so years ago the Columbia CD club was sold to the BMG Music club - it no longer exists. And even today, the BMG club seems to be struggling -- they recently lost their contracts with Warners and Sony, and effectively lost half of the big labels.

Other clubs, such as the book clubs, have been struggling as well.

It's very possible that the companies who license their media to the clubs could see a reduced value in handing out their IP to these third parties with the increased presence of downloadable media and internet retailers. (The record clubs were founded decades ago when it was more difficult to buy recorded music.)

[asianxcore]

Has anyone curtailed their DVD spending becasue of the economy. I haven't. The only thing that's changed in my economic situation is that my retirement account is riding the rollercoaster. My income and expenditures have not changed, therefore I'm still buying the shiny discs.

Not really, but as davidh777 mentioned I'm starting to think twice about a lot of my purchases.

I have been able to keep my DVD spending relatively the same by budgeting myself elsewhere.

[David Lambert]

You're wrong :lol:


It's 720, not 780p.
Crap!


It's also Criterion, not Criteria!
CRAP!

Well, I was sleepy. :D

[spainlinx0]

I haven't bought a DVD in forever as I try to curtail all my frivolous spending. Now, I will rent and stream, and will continue to do so until I jump into the HD game, and only for absolutely must have movies. I will never amass the collection I had on DVD, even though it was comparatively small considering the rest of you guys. However I have also stopped eating out as much, and stopped buying as many games.

[JerryKILL]

During the Great Depression the unemployment rate was 25%. If you lose your job, I doubt you will be buying DVDs.

[wm lopez]

I wondered how sales of double dips will fare like the new THE GODFATHER.
Is it selling?

[calhoun07]

I would think the re-releases and repackaging of movies would be the sector of DVDs that was hit the hardest.

[GizmoDVD]

I wondered how sales of double dips will fare like the new THE GODFATHER.
Is it selling?

No. The Blu-ray sold roughly 42k (if we take that Sex and the City BD sold 60k last week) while the DVD did about 28k. Some people find those numbers to be amazing :shrug:

[Mikael79]

I can't speak for the entire industry, but the economy has certainly changed my buying habits.

[tonymontana313]

No. The Blu-ray sold roughly 42k (if we take that Sex and the City BD sold 60k last week) while the DVD did about 28k. Some people find those numbers to be amazing :shrug:

Where did you get the 60k for SaTC?

[PopcornTreeCt]

All this economy doom and gloom talk... the 2nd highest grossing movie of all-time came out this year. Yes, that's not DVD related but The Dark Knight will probably also end up being the #1 DVD seller this year as well.

Will Criterion be hurting? I doubt it. Criterion appeals to a niche market -- people that have money. Also, Criterion is pretty big. If Kino can stay in business, certainly Criterion can as well.

What will probably end up hurting the DVD industry that they've run out of movies to release and people won't be as likely to double or triple dip at this point.

I'm still buying DVDs/Blu-rays at a regular rate. There seems to be some good titles coming out too.

[Drexl]

* The REAL challenge right now for studios that make DVDs is this: the industry is changing. The question isn't so much "should we, the studio, invest in Blu-ray?" but instead rather "how much should we invest in Blu-ray?" What about download-to-own plans like iTunes, Amazon's thing (formerly "Unbox" but they just changed it to something else), etc.? What about burn-on-demand kiosks that keep getting talked about? What about Toshiba's new burn-on-demand plan that uses SD Cards (like you find in digital cameras) instead of DVDs (hey, Nintendo's new DSi system just announced in Japan will have an SD slot!). What's a poor studio to invest their money, time and resources in? If they gamble wrong, it could mean "belly up!"

This is just my opinion and maybe not even specific to the thread topic, but I think the burn-on-demand kiosk is a bad idea. To me, it sort of combines the worst aspects of physical media and downloads.

Like physical media, you have to go get it to purchase it and to use it; you can't just access it from your chair or couch. It can even be less convenient, because at least with physical media you have the option of having an online retailer deliver to your door. There's also a chance you'll be waiting in a line.

Like downloads, you don't have a solid physical product. Burned discs are not as reliable as pressed discs. The packaging probably won't be that great either. It may be close to a standard case if the printing is up to snuff, but those who like digipacks, steelbooks, and boxed sets will be out of luck.

It might work for those without broadband access if they stop pressing discs, but I wouldn't be interested. Give me pressed physical media, or let me download it straight to my house.

[GizmoDVD]

Where did you get the 60k for SaTC?

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/1215799-post2441.html