Report fears potential 'partisan manipulation' in voter purges

[hahn]

I think this deserves it's own thread:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Report_cites_partisan_manipulation_in_voter_1001.html
It is normal for states to periodically review lists of voters and remove any who have moved, died, or been convicted of felonies. However, with no national standards to control this process, it has become "chaotic," "riddled with inaccuracies," and "vulnerable to manipulation" for partisan purposes.

Those are the conclusions of a new report from the Brennan Center for Justice obtained by CBS News. Brennan Center Executive Director Michael Waldman told CBS, "Officials are making tons of errors, and it's all happening in secret, without public accountability."

One problem that has previously been noted is that some voters are being improperly removed from the rolls because of clerical errors or small mismatches in names or addresses and may not even find out until they show up and attempt to vote.

However, in addition to accidental errors, there is also a possibility of voter purges being used selectively to target minorities or other groups for partisan purposes. "We don't know all the problems, but we know that there's a huge potential for partisan mischief," Waldman stated.

Although exact figures are difficult to obtain, the report notes that one election official in Mississippi was recently found to have purged 10,000 voters "from her home computer." Another 21,000 voters have been purged in Louisiana.

Increasing the concerns, another study cited by CBS has found that "nineteen states are ignoring a federal law banning systematic purges within 90 days of a federal election."

Blogger Brad Friedman comments, "So CBS News has noticed. Where the hell are the Democrats, and why aren't they raising holy hell about all of this stuff everywhere. ... In the meantime, the Republicans are out with phony 'reports' and lawsuits damned near every day --- and not just on Fox 'News' --- declaring 'evidence' of completely non-existant 'voter fraud' by "Democrats". Yet, in the meantime, the Dems continue to bring a knife to a gunfight, and, as we've noted many times of late ... seem to have no clue that they are in a War on Democracy being waged by their GOP opponenents."

CBS News has more details here.

This video is from CBS' Evening News, broadcast September 30, 2008.
[see the link for the video...I don't have an embed code for it]

I think that we should be documenting each voter that is turned away at the polls because of these clerical errors and who they were planning on voting for.

[Venusian]

There were reports of this for a while, i never looked into it. Sounds shady.

I also saw a report on CNN about Ohio changing their law to let people register and vote on the same day. All you need to register is the last four of your social. That doesn't sound safe.

[Tuan Jim]

There were reports of this for a while, i never looked into it. Sounds shady.

I also saw a report on CNN about Ohio changing their law to let people register and vote on the same day. All you need to register is the last four of your social. That doesn't sound safe.

Yeah, a number of the articles I've seen make it sound pretty shady - not unlike some of the partisan practices during the 2000 election:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/6031891.html

Early voting begins in Ohio after federal court ruling
By THOMAS J. SHEERAN Associated Press
Sept. 30, 2008, 11:17AM
CLEVELAND — Voters in this crucial swing state began casting absentee ballots today, after state and federal courts upheld a ruling that allows residents to register and vote absentee on the same day during the first six days of voting.

Five people were waiting at the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections when doors opened at 8:30 a.m. Two in line said they were voting for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, including John Fuller, 73, a retired hospital orderly from Cleveland.

Fuller said voting early would allow him to work on Election Day helping others get out and vote. Fuller and others in line this morning were previously registered.

Election officials around Ohio prepared for a rush of early voting today, the first day absentee ballots are accepted in advance of the Nov. 4 presidential election.

Backed by the state Supreme Court and two federal judges, Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, a Democrat, is allowing new voters to register and cast an absentee ballot on the same day from today through Oct. 6.

For weeks, the Ohio Republican Party accused Brunner of interpreting the early voting law to benefit her own party by allowing same-day registering and voting. Republicans argued that Ohio law requires voters to be registered for 30 days before they cast an absentee ballot.

But the Republican-dominated Ohio Supreme Court decided Monday that Brunner was following the law. The decision was backed by a federal judge in Cleveland. Another federal judge in Columbus declined to rule, deferring to the state Supreme Court's decision.

Today, the Ohio Republican Party asked the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati should either stop same-day voting or at least require the state's top elections official to separate those ballots so they can be verified. Brunner, however, has already instructed election officials to segregate the ballots cast by those who register on the same day and verify the registration information before those ballots are counted.

The second voter in line at the Board of Elections here was Julia Kramer, 19, a Case Western Reserve University freshman from New York City and an Obama volunteer. She said she's been working on campus to register out-of-state students to change their registrations to Ohio because of its critical role in the election.

Nevertheless, "A lot of people are really attached to their hometowns," Kramer said. "It's hard to explain to people that your vote (in New York) won't count as much."

In Columbus, voters wanting to cast ballots as soon as possible this morning had set up tents Monday night to wait in line outside the Franklin County Board of Elections.

Obama's campaign organized car pools from college campuses to early voting sites. The Northeast Ohio Coalition for the Homeless is ferrying voters from homeless shelters to polling sites in the Cleveland area. Other organizations that seek to increase poor and minority participation in elections are transporting voters from low-income neighborhoods.

The targeted voters have all traditionally had a harder time getting registered, and then getting to polling places on Election Day.

Republicans weren't ceding the early voting crowd just because they were engaged in a court challenge.

"You have a special opportunity to help elect John McCain, Sarah Palin and Republicans across the ballot," a page on the Republican National Committee's Web site said.

The window occurs because state law requires absentee voting to begin 35 days before Election Day, on Sept. 30, while the end of registration for this election is Oct. 6. The window was used by voters sparingly in previous elections, but never got any attention until the Republican-controlled Legislature passed a law in 2005 that enabled all Ohio voters to vote absentee.


In my opinion, this is pretty messed up. I thought residency in an area was part of being registered to vote. I liked NC's system - early voting anywhere in the state for residents - meant I could come down from Ft. Drum, NY on a long weekend and vote a month early while I was in the military.

It's not *that* hard to register normally.

[wendersfan]

Obama's campaign organized car pools from college campuses to early voting sites. Someone handed this to me at lunch:

<img width = 480 src = "http://files.myopera.com/wendersfan/albums/156114/barack.png"></img>

[kenbuzz]

So if I know your SS#, can I go vote? Are there safeguards to prevent me from registering and voting multiple times at different locations hours apart on the same day?

Positive identification of the person casting that ballot should be mandatory. Guarantees that the same voter cannot vote multiple times should be mandatory. And if it turns out there's a detectable overvote, without at least some ability to link ballots to voters, how do you know which specific ballots to purge?

This system is BEGGING to be abused. I'm shocked this is even allowed as a possibility.

[General Zod]

Can we mention organizations like Acorn that "registered" 1800 new Democratic voters only 6 of which turned out to be valid?

I'd be willing to be there's a lot more people voting who shouldn't be than are being denied.

[hahn]

So if I know your SS#, can I go vote? Are there safeguards to prevent me from registering and voting multiple times at different locations hours apart on the same day?

Positive identification of the person casting that ballot should be mandatory. Guarantees that the same voter cannot vote multiple times should be mandatory. And if it turns out there's a detectable overvote, how do you know which specific votes to purge?

This system is BEGGING to be abused. I'm shocked this is even allowed as a possibility.Check the date.

[Tuan Jim]

Check the date.

What's that supposed to mean? Other than the fact that they were expecting the court ruling to go in their favor?

[hahn]

What's that supposed to mean? Other than the fact that they were expecting the court ruling to go in their favor?
Oops. Nevermind. I didn't realize early voting had begun. :blush: Never voted early before. What are the rules for doing it?

[Tuan Jim]

Oops. Nevermind. I didn't realize early voting had begun. :blush: Never voted early before. What are the rules for doing it?

Completely dependent on your state. In NC, I just showed up at any polling place (within my district IIRC, but I might have been able to show up anywhere in the state) with my voter ID card and picture ID (shock, horror!?!) - wham, bam, knock it out.

Nothing special required in NC regarding absentee ballots or early registration or anything - as long as you were registered (at least a month out (or maybe a little less) - not this same day crap) in advance and had your paperwork, you could show up ANY TIME during the early voting period at the polling station, up to and including election day. No fancy BS. It sucks here in VA, unless I want to vote early by mail(?), I have to wait till election day - at least the polling station is at a school a couple blocks from my house so I shouldn't be too late for work.

[wendersfan]

Looks like right-wing blogger Pejman Yousefzadeh sees vote fraud any time someone pulls the lever for Obama:

<b><a href = "http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/oct/08/tell-me-again-how-voter-fraud-doesnt-exist/">Tell Me Again How Voter Fraud Doesn't Exist . . .</a></b>

Posted by: Pejman Yousefzadeh

Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 12:38AM

Because <a href = "http://www.nypost.com/seven/10062008/news/nationalnews/homeless_driven_to_vote_obama_132395.htm">this story</a> would beg to differ. <b>Note that you are not supposed to be able to vote with a felony conviction.</b>

Voter fraud regularly gets denied by our friends on the other side of the partisan divide. If they open their eyes, they will see that it is all around them. Of course, whenever our friends on the other side of the partisan divide actually lose elections, they are exceedingly quick to claim the existence of voter fraud--the name "Diebold" is hammered into one's head during those occasions, the lack of evidence of any voter tampering notwithstanding.

But actual and factual stories like this one will be ignored resolutely. They shouldn't be. If there was any justice in the world, every media establishment would be flooding into Ohio asking just what kind of shoddy oversight was allowing convicted felons to register to vote. And hey, they would be moving into Nevada too. Of course, if there was any justice in the world, media establishments wouldn't be so completely in the tank for the Democratic Presidential nominee.Because the bolded statement is factually in error when it comes to Ohio.

[kvrdave]

I tend to hope that the fraud is even so that it cancels out. It's a rosy world I live in.

[wendersfan]

I tend to hope that the fraud is even so that it cancels out. It's a rosy world I live in.I also tend to think that fraud is more easily detectable now than ever before, so I guess I live next to you in the rosy world.

[dick_grayson]

http://www.miller-mccune.com/article/745

The Dirty Details of Voter Purges

Secretive, error-riddled methods for cleaning up the voter rolls and how the Help America Vote Act isn't helping.

interesting article here....

[sracer]

I tend to hope that the fraud is even so that it cancels out. It's a rosy world I live in.
Even in what respect? At a district level? state level? Even if the actual numbers of fraudulent votes are somewhat even, how they are distributed could have significant differences.

[wishbone]

Someone handed this to me at lunch:And it looks like you crumpled it. ;)

[D.Pham00]

So if I know your SS#, can I go vote? Are there safeguards to prevent me from registering and voting multiple times at different locations hours apart on the same day?

Positive identification of the person casting that ballot should be mandatory. Guarantees that the same voter cannot vote multiple times should be mandatory. And if it turns out there's a detectable overvote, without at least some ability to link ballots to voters, how do you know which specific ballots to purge?

This system is BEGGING to be abused. I'm shocked this is even allowed as a possibility.

Where i live (Los Angeles County), they don't check ID. they don't ask for SSN. alls they ask is for your name, they look in the book (shows your name and addy), and you sign your name. You could easily open the phone book and start pulling people's names from the area or perhaps take a look at your neighbor's mail to get their name. Then, as the old adage goes, vote early and often.

[wendersfan]

And it looks like you crumpled it. ;)I stuck it in my pocket and didn't look at it until I got back to my office.

[kvrdave]

Even in what respect? At a district level? state level? Even if the actual numbers of fraudulent votes are somewhat even, how they are distributed could have significant differences.

:lol: obviously. I have a governor who won after the 3rd recount and the largest liberal county had 6,000 more votes than voters.


In the respect that either way we end up with politicians who suck. :)

[brizz]

there's more and more of this coming out and it's shady as fuck. And like it or not, it seems the vast majority of the frauds are taking place in predominantly democratic voting bases....hmmmm.

[wishbone]

I stuck it in my pocket and didn't look at it until I got back to my office.Those darn youngsters (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/8876398-post125.html) should leave you alone. :)

[kvrdave]

there's more and more of this coming out and it's shady as fuck. And like it or not, it seems the vast majority of the frauds are taking place in predominantly democratic voting bases....hmmmm.

I don't mean this to sound like a slam, but hasn't that generally been true? When I hear the term "voter fraud" my first reaction is to think of Chicago.

Or do you think that republicans are trying to commit fraud in democratic voting areas?

I tend to associate it with Democrat areas, but I'm willing to say that may be bias. but I think of Chicago, Detroit, and my own governor. :shrug:

[Alyoshka]

I tend to hope that the fraud is even so that it cancels out. It's a rosy world I live in.

I just tend to think the Supreme Court will cast their nine votes to decide the president regardless. It's a dreary world I live in.

[wendersfan]

Those darn youngsters (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/8876398-post125.html) should leave you alone. :)http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/slemieux66/abe_simpson.gif
Darn tootin'!

[kvrdave]

I just tend to think the Supreme Court will cast their nine votes to decide the president regardless. It's a dreary world I live in.

:lol: I worry more that people will believe it was done with a 5-4 vote instead of a 7-2 vote.

[brizz]

I don't mean this to sound like a slam, but hasn't that generally been true? When I hear the term "voter fraud" my first reaction is to think of Chicago.

Or do you think that republicans are trying to commit fraud in democratic voting areas?

I tend to associate it with Democrat areas, but I'm willing to say that may be bias. but I think of Chicago, Detroit, and my own governor. :shrug:I think that's a totally different animal...and one that has long passed from what we see happening today. That surely happened on local levels in places like Chicago in decades past, but I think it's hard to argue the concerted and very organized efforts to disenfranchise voters today is not absolutely targeted at people more likely to vote Obama.

[brizz]

and it's nothing new...tens of thousands of votes for both Gore and Kerry were lost by this kind of shit. but for some reason it continues to be dismissed. it's rather baffling to me why it isn't talked about more. at least now we're seeing it on the nightly news rather than blogs no one reads.

[kvrdave]

I think that's a totally different animal...and one that has long passed from what we see happening today. That surely happened on local levels in places like Chicago in decades past, but I think it's hard to argue the concerted and very organized efforts to disenfranchise voters today is absolutely targeted at people more likely to vote Obama.

Fine. I disenfranchise, but you cheat. :grunt:

[kvrdave]

I think that's a totally different animal...and one that has long passed from what we see happening today. That surely happened on local levels in places like Chicago in decades past, but I think it's hard to argue the concerted and very organized efforts to disenfranchise voters today is absolutely targeted at people more likely to vote Obama.


You may be correct. But I also think there is a concerted effort to get people to vote (that are likely to vote Democrat) where we don't want to be able to ask questions like, "are they even a citizen?"

Seems like each is off the middle ground to me on this one.

[Giantrobo]

Isn't there always a certain number of "questionable" votes in all elections? I guess it depends who the winner is and how willing the loser is to make a big stink.

[Giantrobo]

Wow :lol:

How will we ever get this stuff straightened out?


Story here (http://www.courant.com/news/local/statewire/hc-09180536.apds.m0342.bc-ct--voteoct09,0,6354551.story)

Conn. looking into voter cards submitted by ACORN

Associated Press
October 9, 2008

HARTFORD, Conn. - The State Elections Enforcement Commission is looking into a complaint alleging that a community advocacy group submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport.

Joseph Borges, Bridgeport's Republican registrar of voters, filed the complaint. He said he has found problems with numerous voter registration cards submitted by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, which works to register low-income people.

In one instance, he says a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl, whose age was listed as 27 on the card.

ACORN filed more than 8,000 cards in Bridgeport. The complaint involves 10, but Borges said there were problems with many others.

The group, which said it has registered some 1.3 million voters nationwide this year, is facing similar allegations in several other states including Nevada, Wisconsin, North Carolina, New Mexico, Michigan, Ohio and Missouri.

ACORN works in low-income communities that trend Democratic. Republicans have used the reports of fraud to raise questions about the possibility of more widespread misdeeds and Election Day antics, such as using phony voter registrations to cast absentee ballots.

"This is a group that is knowingly and actively breaking the law across the country," said Sean Cairncross, the chief counsel for the Republican National Committee, which held a conference call Thursday to discuss the fraud allegations.

Republicans say there are also problems with about 600 cards filed by ACORN in Stamford. But Nancy Nicolescu, a spokeswoman with the enforcement commission, said the agency had not received a complaint about Stamford as of Thursday afternoon.

ACORN said the complaints are part of a coordinated effort by Republicans to discredit ACORN voter registration drives across the nation. The groups officials have said there workers are paid and evaluated based on how many registrations they turn in.

"It is our policy to turn in all cards, even those we know to be problematic, to the local Board of Elections," Sharon Patterson-Stallings, a member of the Connecticut ACORN Board, said in a written statement Thursday. "Any problematic cards that we identify are clearly designated by our quality control department before turn in."

"We find it shameful that elections officials declined to meet with us to discuss these concerns and resolve issues while our drive was still underway, but have chosen now less than a month before the election to publicly attack our work," she said.

[OldDude]

Wow :lol:

How will we ever get this stuff straightened out?




ACORN seems to be a problem everywhere. There was an article here in Michigan a few days ago (I don't have time to look for a link). Around 85% of the cards ACORN turns in are bad.

I understand a small percentage of bad cards and wouldn't fault ACORN for it, maybe up to 5%. When the vast majority of cards are bad, they are either:
*Hoping to slip some of the fraudulent ones through
*Causing unnecessary waste of taxpayer resources to investigate and resolve largely defective cards.

Whichever is true, under their present guidelines of turning in whatever shit paid volunteers make up, they are a public disservice and not a group worthy of any respect other than that preceeded by dis-.

Edit: Yet the media adds to the shitstorm by rebuking any attempt to clean up the voter rolls and make sure registered voters are qualified voters -- alive, resident, citizen, non-felon (or felon permitted to vote under that State's law).

[Thor Simpson]

Maybe we should just adopt the BCS model.

[Venusian]

Maybe we should just adopt the BCS model.
:lol:

[wishbone]

ACORN in the news again...Thousands of voter registration forms faked, officials say
10/10/2008

CROWN POINT, Indiana (CNN) -- More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana's Lake County by a liberal activist group this week have turned out to be bogus, election officials said Thursday.

The group -- the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN -- already faces allegations of filing fraudulent voter registrations in Nevada and faces investigations in other states.

And in Lake County, home to the long-depressed steel town of Gary, the bipartisan Elections Board has stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

"All the signatures looked exactly the same," Ruthann Hoagland, a Republican on the board. "Everything on the card filled out looks exactly the same."

The forms included registrations submitted in the names of the dead -- and in one case, the name of a fast-food restaurant, Jimmy Johns (EDIT :lol:). Sally LaSota, a Democrat on the board, called the forms fraudulent and said whoever filed them broke the law.

Over the past four years, a dozen states have investigated complaints of fraudulent registrations filed by ACORN. On Tuesday, Nevada authorities raided an ACORN office in Las Vegas, Nevada, where workers are accused of registering members of the Dallas Cowboys football team. And the group has become the target of Republican attacks on voter fraud, a perennial GOP issue.

A subsidiary of the group was paid $800,000 by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's campaign to register voters for the 2008 primaries, and ACORN's political wing endorsed Obama back in February. But Obama's campaign told CNN that it "is committed to protecting the integrity of the voting process," and said it has not worked with ACORN during the general election.

Brian Mellor, an ACORN attorney in Boston, said the group has its own quality-control process and has fired workers in the past -- including workers in Gary. But he said allegations that his organization committed fraud is a government attempt to keep people disenfranchised. Watch more about this investigation »

"We believe their purpose is to attack ACORN and suppress votes," Mellor said. "We believe that by attacking ACORN, they are going to discourage people that have registered to vote with ACORN from voting."

CNN was unable to reach ACORN officials in Gary and in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where the group's Indiana operation is based. Offices in both cities were empty when reporters visited.

Lake County elections officials have set aside all 5,000 of the ACORN-submitted applications in what Hoagland called the "fake pile" for later review. But she said every one will be reviewed before the election to make sure no legitimate voters are skipped.

There has been no evidence of voter fraud yet, because voters have yet to go to the polls. But elections officials say they will be sending their information to prosecutors, who will determine whether any investigation will begin.

"We have no idea what the motive behind it is," she said. "It's just overwhelming to us."http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/acorn.fraud.claims/index.html

Voter problems in Lake County? Oh noes!!! :eek:;)

[Venusian]

Looks like more and more ACORN things are showing up in the news. I saw a thing on a liberal blog defending them saying that they are required by law to sumbit any registrations they get to the govt. I could see that being true. But it looks like they are giving incentives to people to register as many as possible...even if they are fake

[Red Dog]

Maybe we should just adopt the BCS model.

Only if the computers are given more weight than carbon blobs. ;)

[JasonF]

Looks like more and more ACORN things are showing up in the news. I saw a thing on a liberal blog defending them saying that they are required by law to sumbit any registrations they get to the govt. I could see that being true. But it looks like they are giving incentives to people to register as many as possible...even if they are fake

From what I've read, you're exactly right that ACORN is required to submit all the registrations they get. Which is probably a good thing -- I don't think people would be happy if ACORN was allowed to decide which registrations to submit and which ones to throw away.

The other thing ACORN does is pre-sort all of the registrations into two piles before they turn them in. Pile one is the pile of registrations that they think are legitimate. Pile two is the pile they think are bogus. They also cooperate with the authorities on investigations of bogus registrations.

Lastly, while it's not a good thing if they submit a registration for Bruce Wayne of 1 Batman Lane, unless somebody shows up at the polls pretending to be Bruce Wayne, it's not actual vote fraud and it doesn't actually affect the election.

In all honesty, I think most of the publicity around ACORN is a preemptive move by some conservatives to be in a position to deny the validity of Senator Obama's election.

[Venusian]

Looks like they don't have to submit all forms in FL. There is a law aobut it but the state hasn't issued set rules or something. I do think they should have to send them all in, but the incentives to register people seem like its just asking for trouble.

Looks like there is voter fraud with it: http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/news/politics/bogus_voter_booted_amid_probe_of_acorn_133540.htm

Investigators probing ACORN have learned that an Ohio man registered to vote several times and cast a bogus ballot with a fake address, officials said yesterday, as they revealed that nearly 4,000 registration applications supplied by the left-leaning activist group were suspect.

The vote of Darnell Nash, one of four people subpoenaed in a Cuyahoga County probe of ACORN's voter-registration activities, was canceled and his case was turned over to local prosecutors and law enforcement, Board of Elections officials said yesterday.


Isn't dismissing the concerns as preemptive motive to deny Obama's election just as bad as the GOP dismissing concerns about voter purges as a preemptive motive to deny McCain's election?

[Red Dog]

Lastly, while it's not a good thing if they submit a registration for Bruce Wayne of 1 Batman Lane, unless somebody shows up at the polls pretending to be Bruce Wayne, it's not actual vote fraud and it doesn't actually affect the election.



True but it is registration fraud. And registration fraud can easily lead to vote fraud.

[Red Dog]

Isn't dismissing the concerns as preemptive motive to deny Obama's election just as bad as the GOP dismissing concerns about voter purges as a preemptive motive to deny McCain's election?



If ACORN was a conservative organization doing the same kind of business, you can bet that liberals would be screaming to high heaven about it.

[Venusian]

If ACORN was a conservative organization doing the same kind of business, you can bet that liberals would be screaming to high heaven about it.

exactly. Both sides love to point fingers at the other side while either overlooking their own side or dismissing any problems with excuses

[wendersfan]

The important thing to keep in mind is that systemic barriers to voting are asymmetric when it comes to party affiliation.

[Venusian]

The important thing to keep in mind is that systemic barriers to voting are asymmetric when it comes to party affiliation.

how so?

[Red Dog]

The important thing to keep in mind is that systemic barriers to voting are asymmetric when it comes to party affiliation.

If so, so what? Are you arguing equal protection? Just because one party benefits more from lower income voters doesn't mean that we should relax rules guarding against fraud.

And frankly, I am sick to death of these barriers to voter registation arguments. Voter registration is probably one of the most painless and easiest processes a citizen can undertake. You almost have to go out of your way to not get registered.

[wendersfan]

And frankly, I am sick to death of these barriers to voter registation arguments. Voter registration is probably one of the most painless and easiest processes a citizen can undertake. You almost have to go out of your way to not get registered.You're an upper-middle class professional with a law degree. Not everyone has the same ease as you.

[sracer]

If so, so what? Are you arguing equal protection? Just because one party benefits more from lower income voters doesn't mean that we should relax rules guarding against fraud.

And frankly, I am sick to death of these barriers to voter registation arguments. Voter registration is probably one of the most painless and easiest processes a citizen can undertake. You almost have to go out of your way to not get registered.
I was just going to ask about these "systemic barriers to voting"... The only systemic barrier that I know of is that a person has to be alive to vote, though the Democratic party in Illinois has done their best to remove that barrier.

[Venusian]

What ease?

Here you can get registered at the library. I was in the park a few weeks ago and some guy walked by and asked me if I was registered. It doesn't seem to hard to do...granted I am also a middle class professional

[Red Dog]

You're an upper-middle class professional with a law degree. Not everyone has the same ease as you.

Oh come on. Long before I was an upper-middle class professional with a law degree, I somehow managed to register to vote and that was before the advent of motor-voter laws.

What percentage of the population has a state-issued ID? When you sign up for one of those, you can automatically register to vote by checking a box.

This ain't rocket science. We need to stop treating it as such.

[Red Dog]

Here you can get registered at the library.


That's exactly how I registered after I turned 18. They had forms at the library. Sent it in, got my card. Holy shit that was hard! It did cost me the price of a stamp.

[Venusian]

This ain't rocket science. We need to stop treating it as such.


or maybe we should start treating it like such...refer to the 20/20 video posted in the other thread ;)

[Venusian]

That's exactly how I registered after I turned 18. They had forms at the library. Sent it in, got my card. Holy shit that was hard! It did cost me the price of a stamp.

I think in GA the library will mail it in for you.

I can't even remember how I registered...

[Red Dog]

I think in GA the library will mail it in for you.

I can't even remember how I registered...

Damn! Now I want my 20 cents back!

[wendersfan]

how so?Poorer people (those who are more likely to vote for a Democrat) are less likely to be able to take off work to vote, are more likely to face challenges at the polls, and so on. Frankly, the idea that this should be a surprise to anyone at this point is beyond me.

Other countries have automatic voter registration and election day is a national holiday. I don't really see why there should be any barriers to voting, other than lazy partisan excuses.

[Red Dog]

Poorer people (those who are more likely to vote for a Democrat) are less likely to be able to take off work to vote, are more likely to face challenges at the polls, and so on. Frankly, the idea that this should be a surprise to anyone at this point is beyond me.

Other countries have automatic voter registration and election day is a national holiday. I don't really see why there should be any barriers to voting, other than lazy partisan excuses.


Given our voter turnout numbers, if you make election day a national holiday, I think less people will vote since they won't already be out of the house for work.

[Red Dog]

Poorer people (those who are more likely to vote for a Democrat) are less likely to be able to take off work to vote, are more likely to face challenges at the polls, and so on. Frankly, the idea that this should be a surprise to anyone at this point is beyond me.


Can they not do an absentee ballot if they have to work? I've gotten 3 absentee ballot requests mailed to me in the last 2 weeks and I never asked for them. Again, this is not hard.

[wishbone]

Damn! Now I want my 20 cents back!With "inflation" it would be 42 cents. :)

[Venusian]

absentee and early voting let you vote whenever you want.

Last election, I voted on my day off.

[Bandoman]

Seriously, there really is no excuse. Last election, I voted by absentee ballot in RI, MA, OH and IN, and on election day in PA. Thanks, ACORN!

[Red Dog]

absentee and early voting let you vote whenever you want.

Last election, I voted on my day off.

I voted on a Saturday last election. It was the GOP House primary back in the Spring and I went to the county election office 2 Saturdays before election day to cast my vote since I knew I'd be out of town on the day of the election. Very easy, and nobody else was there so I was in and out.

[OldDude]

The important thing to keep in mind is that systemic barriers to voting are asymmetric when it comes to party affiliation.

Yes. At least among the dead, only registered Democrats can vote in Chicago.

[kvrdave]

I think of how important we think voting is, and then I think of the excuses of what is potentially keeping people from voting, and I can't wrap my head around it.

Voting is important but you shouldn't have to show ID because some people can't afford ID? How do they get housing assistance, food stamp, health care, etc? I can't go to any government type thing and not show ID, but apparently we have people aching to vote who can't afford ID, but also don't use any government services? I just don't believe that.

No matter how often it is said, I simply do not believe that having a valid ID is asking too much to be able to vote. I cannot imagine a real argument against that.

Voting is important but I couldn't get to the polls that were open until 8 at night and didn't get an absentee ballot? Then just how important was it to you. We keep hearing how important it is, but we act like a person shouldn't have to put forth any effort whatsoever to do it. As a result, it is easier to vote now than ever. Get an absentee ballot. Don't have a stamp because that is like a poll tax? Fine, drop it off. But that's too much of a burden?

PUH-LEAZE! There comes a point when people are just trying to pack the numbers, and when they can't get those people off their asses to actually vote (which is historically the point) they continue to try to make it easier and easier in the hopes that they can lead a horse to water and make him drink.

If getting a government ID that you actually need for most everything else in life is too much of a burden, then you can't be made happy.

[JasonF]

Yes. At least among the dead, only registered Democrats can vote in Chicago.

What -- we still have to take grief about political corruption from the Detroit guy?

[OldDude]

What -- we still have to take grief about political corruption from the Detroit guy?


While I live near Detroit, I also live outside Detroit. I just point at them and laugh. But the former clerk, Jackie Curry, did send out absentee ballots with her name and Kwame's already checked. Since she lost anyway, the State Election Board decided there was nothing really wrong with that (WTF???) and declined to prosecute.

Apparently, election wrongdoing is more of a practical joke than an actual crime (at least for one party).

Edit: My claim sounds pretty preposterous, so I felt I should back it up with a link:
http://www.detnews.com/2005/metro/0510/30/A01-365796.htm
Sunday, October 30, 2005

Detroit News exclusive report

Absentee ballots tainted?

Some Detroit voters are incapacitated, without valid addresses, raising question of mayoral election's fairness.

By David Josar, Lisa M. Collins and Brad Heath / The Detroit News



Jackie L. Currie


Currie, 74, is a powerful Detroit politician with a long history in local government. She was elected city clerk in 1993. Prior to her election, she was the longest-serving member of the Wayne County Commission, with 20 years on the board.

In the recent election, she received more votes than any other candidate -- 69,679 votes compared to 60,117 for Freman Hendrix; 45,783 for Kwame Kilpatrick and 51,871 for Maryann Mahaffey.

Her office was one of the few that did not receive cuts amid Detroit's budget crisis. In addition to her normal budget, she spent $69,683 in 2003-04 on $10-per-hour election workers that visit nursing homes, group homes and hospitals to help people with their absentee ballots.

Currie has been the subject of state and media reports for years that bring into question her election practices.

For the past several years, Currie has been assigned a full-time driver from the Detroit Police Department after protesters began showing up at her home on East Willis. In addition to her residence, she owns 11 rental properties on the east side.




A Detroit News investigation raises serious questions about the handling of absentee ballots under Detroit City Clerk Jackie Currie as the city prepares to choose a mayor, City Council and school board Nov. 8.

Currie has been accused of irregular election practices in several lawsuits, and a review of election results, property records and databases of registered voters uncovered procedures that experts and other election officials described as questionable.

Among findings by News reporters were ballots cast by people registered to vote at abandoned and long-demolished buildings; a master voter list with 380,000 incorrect names and addresses -- including people who have died or moved out of the city; and a practice of hand-delivering ballots from senior citizens and disabled voters that were filled out in private meetings with Currie's paid election workers.

If the mayoral race came down to a close vote demanding a recount of absentee ballots, the result could be chaotic.

But the most poignant findings were stories from those in nursing homes who had recently voted absentee.

Among them is Charles B. Allen, a resident at the Passion Caring Home for the Elderly who stared blankly one day last week when asked to name the mayor of Detroit. He's never heard of Kwame Kilpatrick and can't recall whether he voted in August.

"I just don't know," Allen said. Six years ago, a Wayne County probate judge declared the 87-year-old legally incapacitated due to dementia and Alzheimer's.

But according to city records, he voted in the August primary by absentee ballot.

He did so with the aid of Rose Johnson, one of City Clerk Jackie Currie's 50 election assistants, who met with him in a private room and helped complete his ballot, according to nursing home owner Gena Payne. Johnson declined to speak to a reporter.

Other acute problems exist. The August primary was "a step backwards" for the city, said Wayne County Director of Elections Candace Jenkins.

State law requires cities and townships to turn in election results to the county by 11 a.m. the morning after the election, and 42 of Wayne County's 43 municipalities complied. But Detroit's results were not turned in until nine days after the election, Jenkins said.

When the results arrived, eight of 24 poll districts and 52 of 100 absentee ballot districts had irregularities; mainly, they recorded more or fewer votes than names taken down on election night. When two separate recounts were requested by losing City Council candidates, county canvassers deemed 40 of 107 precincts selected for recount couldn't be recounted due to irregularities such as broken ballot box seals and numbers of ballots not matching the number of votes recorded on election night. That meant candidates had no way of determining the legitimacy of the vote in nearly 40 percent of Detroit's precincts selected for recount.

"You can convict her of running a shoddy election," said Mark Grebner of Practical Political Consulting of East Lansing. Grebner has studied Detroit's election results for 30 years and compiles a list of voters that he sells to political candidates. "The big thing is, these people are incompetent. They do things that don't make sense. We find things all the time that are appalling."

Currie refused to explain any of the problems uncovered by The News or outlined in court cases.

She, along with her deputy, Vernon Clark, denied there are any problems with the vote in Detroit.

"Prove it," Currie said. "P-R-O-V-E."

In the past, Currie has defended her hiring of assistants as an important outreach program to encourage Detroiters to vote. She says federal law inhibits any efforts to purge the city's voter rolls, since no names can be deleted without a death certificate or proof that the voter has registered elsewhere.

The Detroit News probe found:

• In the August primary, Currie's assistants hand-delivered 4,560 ballots to the clerk's office while another 3,314 were delivered either by one of Currie's election officials, the voter or a member of the voter's immediate family, according to the clerk's office. Absentee ballots are supposed to be mailed in by the voter, unless there is a good reason not to, in which case state law outlines close family members who can deliver the ballots for the voter.

While election officials are permitted to deliver absentee ballots to polling places, they are allowed to only when called and asked by the voter. State officials have informed Currie that the practice of picking up ballots from voters is not advisable nor is it allowed by state law, according to a review of state documents.

• State officials have recorded concerns with Currie's handling of elections for years. Currently, the state and Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett are battling Currie to get her to implement the Help America Vote Act of 2002.

Under Michigan's implementation of the federal act, the county has selected a vendor to provide state-of-the-art voting equipment. If the city accepts the county's vendor, federal funds will pay for the equipment in an effort to create unified countywide voting systems. But Currie has told the City Council she prefers a separate vendor. The council has adopted two resolutions supporting her efforts.

If Currie does not apply for the equipment grant by Monday, the city will have to spend $4 million to purchase its own equipment in order to comply with the federal law. A review of memos between state election officials and Currie indicates that Currie similarly battled against implementing optical scan equipment and the statewide effort to keep qualified voter lists.

• At the Passion Caring Home for the Elderly, three people who voted absentee in the August primary could not name the mayor of Detroit or recall having voted when interviewed Thursday. Each was helped by Currie's election assistant in a private room. Of eight recent absentee ballots mailed to the home for the general election next month, seven of the ballot recipients have been declared legally incapacitated by Wayne County Probate Court judges and suffer from dementia and Alzheimer's disease.

• People who were mailed absentee voter applications by Currie's office and later voted by absentee ballot have voter registration addresses of two long-abandoned nursing homes, the LaSalle Nursing Home on West Grand Boulevard and the Woodward Nursing Center.

• In one case, Joseph Koziara voted by absentee ballot. His application for the ballot was addressed to his registered voting address, 3456 Martin, a building that was demolished in 2002 and remains a vacant lot, according to city records. Currie's office has addressed ballot applications to demolished and vacant buildings. In one case, 34 applications were sent to a juvenile detention center for teenagers that need to be hospitalized.

• Two people in unrelated civil cases filed against Currie have given sworn statements that they witnessed Currie's workers filling out empty absentee ballots after the polls had closed. One of the cases is pending. In the other, a judge ruled that there wasn't enough evidence to invalidate the election in question.

• In a 2003 race between Cheryl Cushingberry and Keith Williams for the Wayne County Commission, a fire broke out in the Detroit clerk's counting room for absentee ballots. When people were allowed back in, a recount was impossible because ballot boxes and results had been tampered with, according to court records. Cushingberry later challenged the results, alleging absentee votes had been manipulated.

Absentee voting has played a major role in recent Detroit elections. In the August primary, 44,000 people voted by absentee ballot out of 137,000 votes cast overall -- an absentee rate of 32 percent.

In April, 2003 when Joann Watson faced off against Gil Hill in a special election to fill a City Council seat, Watson won by just 2,939 votes. Of the 79,912 people who voted in the race, 32,799, or more than 41 percent, voted by absentee ballot.

The national average for voting by absentee ballots is 14 percent, according to the United States Election Assistance Commission, while Detroit's average hovers at more than 30 percent. In some races, more than 60 percent of people voted absentee.

Currie's problems with absentee voting go back decades. She and her late husband, Charmie Currie Jr., were charged in 1964 with conspiring to solicit 21 people to sign applications for absentee ballots and later advising them on how to mark their ballots. Currie's husband pleaded guilty to a reduced misdemeanor charge, and the prosecutor dismissed charges against Currie on grounds that "she acted out of love for her husband."

For years, city residents and political activists, along with state and Wayne County election officials, have tried to get answers about why it has been impossible to recount absentee ballots.

"There have always been problems. We just want some answers," said the Rev. Malik Shabazz, founder of the New Black Panther Nation/New Marcus Garvey Movement.

In 2004, Currie filed a personal protection order against Shabazz after he and about 20 others picketed her home to protest what they believed was manipulation of absentee ballots to determine election results.

"What's this about? She just wants to keep herself and her friends in power," Shabazz said.

For the Nov. 8 election, Wayne County Chief Judge Mary Beth Kelly ruled that monitors be appointed to oversee the handling of absentee ballots. Kelly also barred Currie's use of assistants called ambassadors, but on Friday, the Michigan Court of Appeals ruled that the ambassadors could still be used.

The appeals court didn't say whether Currie's use of ambassadors was legal or illegal but simply that Kelly didn't have technical authority to bar the ambassadors as part of a contempt of court proceeding.

The rulings stem from a suit filed in August by failed City Council candidate Maureen Taylor, who alleged she lost a spot on the November general election ballot because of absentee ballot fraud.

As the lawsuit proceeded, Kelly issued a verbal order barring Currie from sending out about 150,000 absentee ballot applications to city residents. Currie disobeyed that order and later invoked her Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate herself when asked by the judge to explain her actions.

At one point, Currie said she did not remember being in the judge's courtroom when Kelly told her not to mail the applications.

Under state election law, an absentee ballot must be either mailed or hand-delivered by the voter. If a voter needs help filling out the ballot -- if he or she is blind, for example -- the person helping must sign the back of the ballot envelope.

But nobody is sure how the assistants conduct their work, raising questions about the safety and security of 8,000 or more ballots in every election.

"There is no accountability," said Stephen Wasinger, one of the lawyers challenging the election process on behalf of Maureen Taylor, the City Council candidate.


I must point out that Republicans have no dog in this fight as none run for Detroit offices. The top two (Democratic) candidates from the primary advance to the final election. It is shennanigans by and for "selected Democrats" (the existing administration).

[OldDude]

Michigan is going after the ACORN workers that filed fraudulent cards- well at least one of them. Note further down in the article that 2/3 of the cards filed by ACORN are invalid. It is virtually an accident if a valid card is filed. This organization is causing an enormous waste of taxpayer resources investigating the crap that they turn in. I think the State should send the a bill, or perhaps a $100 fine for every invalid card. Put the cost back on the organization causing the waste. These people are a disservice to the community, when all local governments are strapped for resources, to waste their time on crap cards.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/17716260/detail.html
Mich. AG Charges Ex-ACORN Worker With Forgery
County Clerk Offices Say ACORN Applications Clog System

POSTED: 7:23 pm EDT October 14, 2008
UPDATED: 8:29 pm EDT October 14, 2008


DETROIT -- Michigan's attorney general is charging a former employee of a community organizing group with forgery after he says the man falsely submitted six voter registration forms.

Antonio Johnson is being held in Jackson County on a parole violation. The 23-year-old is accused of falsifying the registration forms between May 20 and June 6 in Jackson.

He worked for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN.

Jackson Clerk Lynn Fessel suspected a problem and asked police to investigate. Two residents said they didn't sign the forms and that some information used to complete the forms was incorrect.

Attorney General Mike Cox announced Johnson's arrest Tuesday.

"This office will not stand by while criminals interfere with the voting rights of Michigan citizens," Cox's office said.

Johnson couldn't be reached immediately at the jail.

"We will reach out to the attorney general and let him know that we will cooperate in any way possible with this investigation," ACORN said in a statement about the charges late Tuesday.

In Pontiac, a county clerk employee, who did not want to be on camera, told Local 4 someone tried to register to vote using her name.

"It had a phony birth date and an old telephone number of mine. Someone had forged my signature," the employee said.

The Oakland County Clerk's office said two-thirds of voter applications submitted by ACORN are invalid.

"We've seen in some communities as much as 12 applications for the same individual with different handwriting and signatures," said Joe Rozell, Oakland County elections director.

The head organizer for ACORN in Michigan, Dave Lagstein, said it submitted 210,000 voter applications it had acquired through paid workers.

"Every single card is verified," said Lagstein. "And anybody who submits a card that is not appropriate is terminated immediately."

Lagstein said workers are paid $8 an hour to collect the applications.

[wendersfan]

I saw this yesterday as I was driving to my mom's and it reminded me of this thread:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/2944561718_84c838839e_m.jpg

:lol:

[wishbone]

Mmmm, voter BBQ. http://i34.tinypic.com/2a5gqa1.gifDemocrats brush off vote fraud claims
By Tim Evans
Posted: October 15, 2008

State Democratic officials said today that the growing fervor over allegations of voter fraud and remote polling sites in Lake County is a smoke screen aimed at shoring up Republican John McCain's chances to win Indiana.

Dan Parker, chairman of the Indiana Democratic Party, called the allegations "desperate scare tactics" aimed at suppressing voters in the traditional Democrat stronghold.

"We are calling on Republicans today to stop their dirty tricks, to stop their scare tactics," he said.

In a telephone conference call with reporters from around the state, Parker said the allegations have nothing to do with voter fraud.

He noted the Democratic clerk in Lake County threw out incomplete or bogus registration forms submitted by Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, as part of a national drive the organization claims registered 1.3 million mostly young and minority voters across the U.S. He added those bad registration cards did not result in any voter fraud, noting Indiana has one of the nation's strictest voter laws.

"The system worked," he said.

In a statement on the ACORN Web site, the group says it was a victim of unscrupulous workers hired to help with the registration drive.

"Any large voter registration operation will have a small percentage of workers who turn in bogus registration forms. Their goal clearly is not to cast a fraudulent vote. It is simply to defraud their employer, ACORN, by getting a paycheck without earning it. ACORN is the victim of this fraud -- not the perpetrator," the statement says.

"In nearly every case that has been reported, it was ACORN that discovered the bad forms, and called them to the attention of election authorities, putting the forms in a package that identified them in writing as suspicious, encouraging election officials to investigate, and offering to help with prosecutions. We are required by law to turn in all forms, but instead of just turning them in and figuring that it is the responsibility of the board of elections to figure out which are valid, we spend millions of dollars verifying that forms are valid, and then separate out those that are suspicious."

In Lake County, an attorney for labor unions and Democrats wants a new judge to decide to decide whether satellite early voting centers can stay open in Gary, Hammond and East Chicago.

The Indiana Supreme Court's order on Tuesday putting the matter before Republican-appointed Lake Superior Court Judge Calvin Hawkins gives parties in the case the option of asking for a new judge. Attorney Jim Wieser said he made such a request today.

If parties can't agree on a special judge by this afternoon, the Supreme Court will choose one.

The early voting centers opened Tuesday. Heavily Democratic Lake County is considered key to Barack Obama's chances of winning Indiana's electoral votes. Republican members of Lake County's election board oppose the satellite centers, saying they increase the chance of vote fraud.http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081015/NEWS0502/810150437&GID=CASRflUXcWjCKxgfEco/s8DcoXvYFO5R9ZfDxg8Plbo%3D

I would think that quality control would be a high priority for ACORN -- not just in the forms being submitted but the personnel they hire to gather the registration forms as well.

[Tuan Jim]

Poorer people (those who are more likely to vote for a Democrat) are less likely to be able to take off work to vote, are more likely to face challenges at the polls, and so on. Frankly, the idea that this should be a surprise to anyone at this point is beyond me.

Other countries have automatic voter registration and election day is a national holiday. I don't really see why there should be any barriers to voting, other than lazy partisan excuses.

The last few months before registration closed in VA we literally had guys sitting at a table outside our metro station several days a week during rush hour. If you can't be bothered to take 2 minutes to walk over there on your way to the car or bus stop, you really have problems. Heck, I got mine done when I went to the DMV - got at least 4 different copies of my voter ID card mailed to me in the 6 months since.

It's not as though they don't try to make it easier to vote in most areas either (although I'm mystified that only 10 - I think - states actually have early voting in place). Early voting would be the best thing they could enact if they really wanted maximum participation.

[Venusian]

SC getting involved already?

http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/31101144.html


200k new ohio registrations have data that don't match govt database. does the state have to help local jurisdictions sort it out? appeals court says yes.

[wishbone]

Now the FBI is getting involved:FBI investigates ACORN for fraud allegations
Officials say FBI is looking at results of office raids in several states
10/16/2008
AP

WASHINGTON - The FBI is investigating whether the community activist group ACORN helped foster voter registration fraud around the nation before the presidential election.

A senior law enforcement official confirmed the investigation to The Associated Press. A second senior law enforcement official says the FBI was looking at results of recent raids on ACORN offices in several states for any evidence of a coordinated national scam.

Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because Justice Department regulations forbid discussing ongoing investigations particularly so close to an election.

A spokesman for ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, did not return messages Thursday seeking comment.

Republican accusations about the group were raised during Wednesday's presidential debate between Democrat Barack Obama and GOP candidate John McCain.

ACORN says it has registered 1.3 million young people, minorities and poor and working-class voters. More than 13,000 ACORN workers in 21 states recruited low-income voters, who tend to be Democrats.

But some ACORN employees have been accused of submitting false voter registration forms — including some signed `Mickey Mouse' or other fictitious characters.

Those voter registration cards have become the focus of fraud investigations in Nevada, Connecticut, Missouri and at least five other states. Election officials in Ohio and North Carolina also recently questioned the group's voter forms.

ACORN has said the "vast majority" of its workers are conscientious, but some might have turned in duplicate applications or provided fake information to pad their pay. Workers caught submitting false information have been fired, ACORN officials say.

ACORN says laws in a number of states require it to submit all registration cards it collects even dubious ones, so its workers segregate applications with missing, suspicious or false information and flag them so state election officials can quickly check them further.

House Republicans have been pushing for the Justice Department to investigate ACORN, calling on Attorney General Michael Mukasey to make sure ballots by ineligible or fraudulent voters are not counted on Nov. 4.

The issue also became campaign trail fodder for McCain, who on Wednesday night demanded to know the full extent of Obama's ties with ACORN. McCain said the group could be on the verge of "destroying the fabric of democracy."

Obama denied any significant ties to ACORN and mocked McCain for bringing it up. The Democrat and two other lawyers represented ACORN in 1995 in a lawsuit against the state of Illinois to make voter registration easier, and hired a firm with ties to the group for a massive get-out-the-vote effort during this year's primary.

Earlier this week, Obama said that ACORN was not advising his campaign on voter registration, and the group's registration problems should not be used by the Republicans as an excuse to keep voters from turning out on Election Day.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27220798/

[Sean O'Hara]

Now if someone comes up with a strong link between Obama and ACORN, we'll have a real October Surprise.

[BKenn01]

This ain't rocket science. We need to stop treating it as such.

NO it is not. Both sides know this as well. But one side has problems getting their people to take the effort to vote so they want to take away any excuse. I guess there is more incentive to go to the polls when you are trying to protect your paycheck as opposed to dipping into someone elses.

I kind of whish we would have a fluke snow storm. That would be the only way McCain has a chance to win.

[Venusian]

SC over turned appeals court. GOP didn't have standing

[wendersfan]

SC over turned appeals court. GOP didn't have standing<b><a href = "http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/17/brunner_scotus.html?sid=101">U.S. Supreme Court backs Brunner in elections dispute</b></a>
Friday, October 17, 2008 11:53 AM
Updated: Friday, October 17, 2008 12:13 PM
By Mark Niquette
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled today in favor of Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, overturning a lower-court order that she provide to county elections boards by today details of discrepancies discovered with new voter registrations.

The court ruled 9-0 that the Ohio Republican Party, which sued Brunner for the information, was unlikely to succeed in its arguments that Brunner legally could be sued on this issue and that the courts had the authority to issue the order.

But the court expressed no opinion about whether federal law was being followed properly.

At issue is what should be done when personal information from newly registered voters doesn't match state motor vehicle and federal Social Security records after an automatic computer check is done.

The ruling settles for now a dispute that had worked its way through the lower federal courts in recent days, with district and appellate judges taking different sides on the issue.

The Republican Party had sued Brunner on grounds she allegedly was violating the federal Help America Vote Act by not giving counties the results of mismatches as a way to correct registration errors and weed out any fraud.

When Ohioans register to vote, they must provide their names, addresses, ages and either their drivers' license numbers or the last four digits of their Social Security numbers. Computers seek to match that information with the state and federal databases.

Initial estimates are that as many as 200,000 of the 660,000 new voter registrations in Ohio since Jan. 1 have mismatches.

Brunner had argued that the federal law required her to do the matches but did not dictate what must be done with the mismatches -- and that the law prohibits using mismatches alone from disqualifying a voter.

She has said she is trying to provide the details but that the statewide voter registration database was poorly constructed and there appear to be problems with the matching process, raising doubts about the accuracy of mismatches.

Republicans reject that argument, saying if Brunner had been doing her job as chief elections official, she would have addressed any problems months ago.

But Brunner, who accuses the Republican challenge of being politically motivated, also has expressed concerns that county elections officials already are overburdened trying to prepare for the Nov. 4 election.

Adding work to check the mismatches could cause confusion and other problems at the polls, she and other election experts have said.

Voting-rights groups also insisted that studies have shown a large percentage of the mismatches are the results of typos when information is entered into databases or legitimate discrepancies such as people giving a full name when they register and a shortened name when they get a driver's license.

They argue that a mismatch alone should never be used as the basis for challenging voters' eligibility or forcing them to cast a provisional ballot, which is held for 10 days before being counted while workers check eligibility.

Even so, Republicans and others argued that if there is a tool to help correct mistakes and catch fraud, it should be used -- especially with allegations of registration fraud involving ACORN, or the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

mniquette@dispatch.com