Hiro11

We had a lot of discussion in the Metallica "Death Magnetic" thread about the high level of compression, high average loudness and lack of dynamic range of the recording. The internet is buzzing with conversations about "Death Magnetic"'s mixing and mastering. The coverage has reached to point to where the Wall Street Journal today published an article about it on their front page (subscription required...) and their manager has been forced to respond. In all of the coverage, the recording engineers and band representatives have repeatedly stated that people have had "very positive" reactions to the recording.

To me, this is just the latest symptom of something that's been going on for a while. Here's a good article that nicely captures the issue and how I feel about it. Like the author, I think most rock recordings for at least the past fifteen years have essentially sounded like crap compared to earlier mixes. Most people call "Appetite for Destruction" the beginning of the current loudness war. To me, Oasis' "What's the Story, Morning Glory" was the first time I noticed that a recording sounded "hot" and compressed to the point of being one exhausting monotone blare. Recently, the situation has gotten so bad that recordings like Bruce Springsteen's "Magic" are essentially unlistenable to me. I hear it in almost every single recording I buy these days, even folky quiet stuff like Fleet Foxes or downbeat rock like The National sounds like the levels are too high and the dynamic peaks squashed.

However, in the Death Magnetic thread, lots of people don't even see what some of us are talking about. So I throw the question back to you, does this bother you? Is it something you can even pick up?

fuzzbox

I guess my answer would have to be Yes, as I keep buying new, "remastered" versions of CDs, only to find the sound squashed and compressed... yuk.

CDs have 75+db dynamic range for a reason....

-jason

B5Erik

.
When I saw the thread title I thought you were talking about....







But, on topic, IF it's the original mix - the first release of an album - AND the band wants it to sound that way, then, no, I don't have a problem with it.

IF, however, it is a re-release, or IF it is just a case of the mastering engineer wanting the album to sound as, "Hot," as possible, and he overcompresses the thing to where it doesn't sound like what the band wanted, then YES, I do have a problem with it.

ESPECIALLY if it results in ANY clipping! Added distortion to vocals and everything else sounds like shit!

But overcompressing music that is supposed to have dynamics is just bad.

IF a band wants it to sound that way on it's initial release, OK, artistic decision by the band. Otherwise? It's a case of the mastering engineer (or, in some cases the mixing engineer) screwing with something and destroying the dynamics - effectively making the music sound worse than it would otherwise.

panchor

I knew about the loudness wars for a while, and it did not bother me until this two events:

• Death Magnetic by Metallic
• I started buying vinyl records. The difference between a remastered CD and the original vinyl is quite noticeable

GHackmann

Let me put it this way: the only reason I'm not buying Death Magnetic is because of the clipping.

Josh-da-man

Yeah, it annoys the fuck out of me.

And the sound quality between vinyl records and "remasted" CDs is striking. I have all of AC/DC's albums up through "Flick on the Switch" on vinyl, and bought a few of the remastered CDs (in the digipaks). That's where I first really started to notice clipping. The CDs sounded distorted and muddy when compared to my old albums, which have a clarity and vibrance that the CDs lack.

Unfortunately, most people will automatically think louder=better and be none the wiser as to what they're giving up.

B5Erik

The remasters that Atlantic did in 1994 were pretty darned good. Greater dynamic range, greater frequency range and clarity. I never bothered with the Sony remasters (I hate digipaks).

JOE29

I was thinking of the Japanese band Loudness also.

Giantrobo

Wasn't this Loudness/Distortion thing an issue many here were bitching about when RUSH's "Vapor Trails" came out?

Eddie W

Yeah, I despise this stupid trend. Dynamics are what give music it's visceral impact. Take that away & it's just uninvolving noise.

Has there ever been a business that's as clueless about its product as the music industry?

Dubya

Yes it bothers me a lot. As others have said if you compare vinyl or the original cd pressings to the remasters, the difference is striking. There have been very few "good" remastering jobs over the last fifteen years (93 Aerosmith, 94 AC/DC are a couple that spring to mind).

Hiro11

Exactly. That particular album was so bad that I think they remastered and repressed it.

Imprint

I first noticed it with Oasis' What's the Story Morning Glory too. The extreme use of compression and no-noise makes the music very tiring. That said, not all remasters are bad. Aerosmith, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Van Halen, and KISS remasters are good or even great in my opinion.

atlantamoi

I don't care for it either.

mndtrp

I have volume controls for a reason. I don't really need it to be pumped up prior to reaching my house.

zombeaner

I will admit that I read about the loudness issue before buying Death Magnetic, and I didn't think it could be that bad. Boy was I wrong. My ears hurt 15 minutes into the record, and I was only made more upset when I heard the Guitar Hero version. This "Loudness War" ruined a GREAT album!

SFranke

An unreleased remaster supposedly exists, but the problem with the sound occurred at the mixing stage. So no matter how many times or how well the album is remastered, it will still sound horrible. Supposedly, the rare vinyl version sounds much better.

Nick Danger

Interesting reads. I didn't know that it was getting this bad.

It doesn't surprise me, though. We are in a forum where people insist on the best possible video quality, are first adopters of Blu-Ray disks, and think a 55-inch screen is kind of small. You know, the sort of people who take reproduction seriously. They're always pushing for that next incremental step forward in video quality. But even here most people don't care about audio quality. I've seen more than one post about people converting all their music to MP3 files and selling the CD collection. It doesn't bother them that it's a big step backward in audio quality.

Rypro 525

it has never really bothered me (listening to heavy metal music alot, it kind of needs to be loud), but Death Magnetic sounds too loud and almost distorted in parts (especially after hearing the guitar hero mixes).

Hiro11

That's just the point. Compressed music with a high average -dB only sounds loud, it's actually less dynamic and less rockin'.

Because the overall dynamic range (the difference between the loud parts and the soft parts) of a "hot" recording has been compressed, the music is actually less dynamic, and in the case of metal, will rock less hard. What makes music exciting is the instantaneous contrasts between loud and soft. Drums recorded with a high dynamic range will pound harder, guitars will sound more ferocious. All of the component parts will have varying levels, making the recording sound much more involving and deep. If it's all at one level, it becomes a smeared blare of noise and it's impossible to pick one sound out from another. It makes the music boring. That's why "Leper Messiah" off an old copy of MOP sounds so much better than anything off of "Death Magnetic".

If you want music that kicks ass, get a recording with high dynamic range and simply turn it up.

islandclaws

Yes.

I prefer my albums to sound more natural than they do now. Death Magnetic would probably be a much better album, IMO, if the mix weren't so distorted. I think the songs are good, but the mix ruins much of the subtle work put into writing the songs. There's a "volume" control on audio devices for a reason; if I think it's needs ot be louder, I'll just turn it up.

Mordred

Exactly.

If you couldn't tell from my bitching in the Death Magnetic thread (I think I was the first to bring up the clipping there and was pleased to find I wasn't alone on the interwebs) this stuff drives me insane.

I don't think it's been mentioned in here (maybe in the links?) but the reason for the whole loudness war to begin with is that if you take two identical recordings of the same song but increase the volume of the 2nd one just a few decibels the majority of people will always say they prefer the louder one and claim it sounds better. Obviously it's a psychological difference but it's the reason we're in this mess.

bunkaroo

Thankfully my favorite band, Porcupine Tree, has already been bucking this trend. On their last full length and subsequent EP, the volume is actually quite a bit lower than previous efforts. I'd say I have to turn up my volume an additional 10% to volume match other modern CD's. The benefit is the dynamics are great, and very important to the music which can go from delicately beautiful to pretty heavy in a short time.

nothingfails

I am a vinyl fan but not big on Metallica. Is the same problem going on with the Death Magnetic vinyl for anyone who picked a copy of it up on wax?

bunkaroo

Given the mastering engineer said it was screwed up when he got it, I assume the final mix is already hammered and as such the vinyl would bad as well unless it had a different mix.