Run D.M.C., Metallica lead 2009 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominations

[Dubya]

CLEVELAND — Run-D.M.C. could "Walk This Way" into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
The 1980s rap act, along with Metallica and the Stooges are among the nine nominees for next year's hall of fame class, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation announced Monday.
The other nominees are guitarist Jeff Beck, singer Wanda Jackson, Little Anthony and the Imperials, War, Bobby Womack, and disco and R&B group Chic, the only nominee back from last year's ballot.
The five leading vote-getters will be announced in January and inducted April 4, 2009, in Cleveland.
The ceremony typically has been held in New York but is returning to Cleveland after more than a decade-long absence. Tickets will be made available to the public for the first time.
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five opened the door for rap at the Rock Hall as the first hip-hop act to be inducted in 2007. Now, Run-D.M.C., nominated in the first year of its eligibility, has the chance to follow on the strength of rock and rap blends such as the 1986 cover of Aerosmith's "Walk This Way" and classics like "It's Tricky" and "My Adidas."
Metallica jumped on the heavy metal wave of the '80s and 25 years later is still selling out arenas. This month the group released "Death Magnetic," which marks a return to its early speed metal days.
The Stooges, recently given props in the film "Juno," get another shot after last appearing on the ballot two years ago.
Left off the ballot were Stevie Ray Vaughan and Bon Jovi. Both had been eligible for the first time. To be nominated an act must have released its first single or album 25 years prior.
More than 500 musicians, industry professionals and journalists vote on the inductions.

[KillerCannibal]

Run D.M.C.?

As if the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame hadn't lost enough credibility already... there goes the rest of it.

[cactusoly]

Still no Alice Cooper, Deep Purple or Kiss :gah:

[fumanstan]

Run D.M.C.?

As if the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame hadn't lost enough credibility already... there goes the rest of it.

Next thing you know they'll be putting Madonna in there :p

[macnorton]

The Hall never had credibility...

However, I still believe Run DMC deserve the nomination. They were one of the first acts to merge rock and rap together and made Aerosmith cool again.

Metallica seems like a no-brainer.

The Stooges all I can is about fucking time. The Stooges, in my opinion, invented punk rock.

[cungar]

Iggy and the Stooges, Metallica and Run DMC essentially defined their genres (punk, speed metal and rap) so they deserve to get in.

[NoirFan]

The Stooges and Chic would get my vote. If hip-hop is now allowed, Public Enemy better be on the ballot next year. Responsible for the greatest rap album of all time, It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back, they blow Run DMC out of the water artistically.

[nothingfails]

Run D.M.C.?

As if the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame hadn't lost enough credibility already... there goes the rest of it.

I am not a hip hop fan, but those guys definately belong in there. Walk This Way almost singlehandedly brought hip hop to the mainstream.

[nothingfails]

I am glad the Bon Jovi rumors were exaggerated. I know a lot of rock snobs thumb their nose at the idea of "pop stars" like Madonna and Michael Jackson being in the HOF (even tho there are more r&b artists in the HOF than rock), but at least Madonna and MJ were influencial and trendsetters and were two of the biggest icons of their era. Bon Jovi getting into the HOF before Def Leppard, Rush or KISS would be the biggest joke ever because BJ have never been critically respected and what "respect" they do get now seems to be more based on the fact that they have been able to last as long as they have. I think KISS at their most reviled gets more critical respect than Bon Jovi does.

[macnorton]

The Stooges and Chic would get my vote. If hip-hop is now allowed, Public Enemy better be on the ballot next year. Responsible for the greatest rap album of all time, It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back, they blow Run DMC out of the water artistically.

I think you have an apples to oranges comparison there, but it is an awesome record to say the least. PE deserves to be in the Hall just as much as Metallica.

I do suppose opinions differ on The Stooges...some will say The Velvet Underground is more important, Television (who came later) and The MC5's. Either way The Stooges belong there.

EDIT - Something dawned on me, can you believe the MC5's and Stooges came from the same place (Detroit Rock City) at the same time (1969)? Fucking incredible. I was born way too late.

[Mordred]

I can't believe SRV was left off the ballot. The most influential blues artist of the last 25 years and the guy responsible for the '80s blues revival doesn't get a nod? Wow.

[Jason]

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4777/dscn0213ob5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'll just post my yearly disgust and move on. Honestly, it's just a joke anymore.

[Chrisedge]

A yearly post to remind folks:

ABBA
Albert King
Alice Cooper
B-52s
Ben E. King
Billy Idol
Billy Preston
Blue Öyster Cult
Boston
Burt Bacharach
Cat Stevens
Cheap Trick
Chicago
Deep Purple
Def Leppard
Dire Straits
Donovan
Doobie Brothers
Duran Duran
Electric Light Orchestra
Foreigner
Genesis
Hall & Oates
Heart
Iggy Pop
Iron Maiden
Jeff Beck
Jethro Tull
Jimmy Buffett
Joan Jett
Joe Cocker
Journey
Judas Priest
Kiss
Linda Ronstadt
Los Lobos
Lou Reed
Metallica
Neil Diamond
Ozzy Osbourne (solo)
Pat Benatar
Pete Townshend (solo)
Peter Frampton
Peter Gabriel
Roxy Music
Rush
Ry Cooder
Sonny and Cher
Squeeze
Steppenwolf
Steve Miller Band
Steve Winwood (solo)
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Sting (solo)
Styx
Supertramp
T. Rex
The Cars
The Cure
The Doobie Brothers
The Go-Go's
The Hollies
The Jam
The Moody Blues
The Replacements
The Smiths
Thin Lizzy
Three Dog Night
Todd Rundgren
Tom Waits
Yes

[dsa_shea]

Without Rush in there they can go f*** themselves.

[Dubya]

The Stooges and Chic would get my vote. If hip-hop is now allowed, Public Enemy better be on the ballot next year. Responsible for the greatest rap album of all time, It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back, they blow Run DMC out of the water artistically.

I'm sure PE will get in but they are still several years away from eligibility. It has to be 25 years since an artist's first record before they can become eligible.

[chino77]

I am not a hip hop fan, but those guys definately belong in there. Walk This Way almost singlehandedly brought hip hop to the mainstream.

so they are to blame!

[Boba Fett]

No Rush=I don't care.

[zombeaner]

I'm good with Metallica, The Stooges, and Wanda Jackson. Couldn't care less about the rest of the list. Chic? Seriously?

[benedict]

For their sound and impact on the emerging late 1960s heavy rock scene one would think that Vanilla Fudge might get a mention while some of the guys are still alive and playing.... I gather a version of the band still plays from time to time.

[DJLinus]

Run D.M.C.?

As if the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame hadn't lost enough credibility already... there goes the rest of it.

Well, they are the Kings of Rock, after all...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410-2iT1jWL._SS400_.jpg

Honestly, I do see a problem with including them. Between the guitars and beats (Billy Squier comes to mind), rock was a big part of their sound from the get-go.

[B5Erik]

ALL of these artists deserve to get in before Run DMC and Metallica

ABBA
Albert King
Alice Cooper
B-52s
Ben E. King
Blue Öyster Cult
Boston
Chicago
Deep Purple
Def Leppard
Dire Straits
Doobie BrothersGenesis
Iggy Pop
Iron Maiden
Jeff Beck
Jethro Tull
Jimmy Buffett
Journey
Judas Priest
KISS
Lou Reed
Ozzy Osbourne (solo)
Peter Gabriel
Roxy Music
Rush
Steppenwolf
Steve Miller Band
Stevie Ray Vaughan
T. Rex
The Cure
The Moody Blues
The Smiths
Thin Lizzy
Three Dog Night
Tom Waits
Yes

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame continues to be a bad joke. It's still the Rock and Roll Hall of Sham.

[nothingfails]

I'm good with Metallica, The Stooges, and Wanda Jackson. Couldn't care less about the rest of the list. Chic? Seriously?

This is 2008. The "disco sucks" mentality ended a long time ago.

Why not Chic? Nile Rodgers was one of the most successful producers of the 1980's, producing some of the biggest hits for people like David Bowie, Madonna, Carly Simon and many other successful artists. I know Madonna's status in the HOF is a controversial one... but she's in there before the man who gave her Like A Virgin and Material Girl?

The Chic sound is very influencial in funk and dance music, and hip hop as well. They weren't "just some disco band".

[inri222]

My nominees are :

The Damned & Joy Division

[B5Erik]

This is 2008. The "disco sucks" mentality ended a long time ago.

Why not Chic? Nile Rodgers was one of the most successful producers of the 1980's, producing some of the biggest hits for people like David Bowie, Madonna, Carly Simon and many other successful artists. I know Madonna's status in the HOF is a controversial one... but she's in there before the man who gave her Like A Virgin and Material Girl?

The Chic sound is very influencial in funk and dance music, and hip hop as well. They weren't "just some disco band".

How many hit albums did Chic have? How long were they around? Are they really HOF worthy? IMO, the answer is a resounding, "NO!"

And, clearly, the bands I listed above deserve to get in BEFORE Chic or anyone else on this year's nominees list.

[Dubya]

How many hit albums did Chic have? How long were they around? Are they really HOF worthy? IMO, the answer is a resounding, "NO!"

And, clearly, the bands I listed above deserve to get in BEFORE Chic or anyone else on this year's nominees list.

How many hit albums did The Velvet Underground have? Let's just put any band with a bunch of hit albums in there no matter what their artistic merit is.

[B5Erik]

How many hit albums did The Velvet Underground have? Let's just put any band with a bunch of hit albums in there no matter what their artistic merit is.
Just because a band puts out a great album or two does not make them HOF worthy.

Any Hall of Fame is about career achievements over time. Except this one. This one is about the tiny group of voters who pick only the bands THEY like or deem worthy, regardless of achievements. It's a sham.

[rw2516]

For their sound and impact on the emerging late 1960s heavy rock scene one would think that Vanilla Fudge might get a mention while some of the guys are still alive and playing.... I gather a version of the band still plays from time to time.

Although cool to listen to, 90% of what they did was slowed down psychadelic(sp?) cover versions of 60s top 40 hits. Basically a cover band.

[nothingfails]

How many hit albums did Chic have? How long were they around? Are they really HOF worthy? IMO, the answer is a resounding, "NO!"

And, clearly, the bands I listed above deserve to get in BEFORE Chic or anyone else on this year's nominees list.

well, you're looking at it from a "disco sucks" rock bias where The Bee Gees probably still suck. Chic fell off the radar by 1980 but Nile Rodgers as a producer and songwriter lasted well into the 90's. He gave us David Bowie's Let's Dance (the only time he ever truly conquered America), he gave us Madonna's Like A Virgin (the album that launched her into superstardom), he gave us Diana Ross' Diana (the ONLY solo album of her career that was ever treated as relevant). He is responsible for the only two #1 Duran Duran singles, etc.... "Good Times" formed the basis for "Rapper's Delight", the very first hip hop track to ever cross over. The Chic sound has been oft-copied even in recent music, Justin Timberlake's "Rock Your Body" is a total Chic-ripoff. Hell, even "Billie Jean" had the Nile Rodgers stamp all over it even if it was a Quincy Jones production.

There are only a small number of disco-era artists I think are HOF era, The Bee Gees, Donna Summer (and Giorgio Moroder) and Chic. Chic's influence in music goes well beyond "Le Freak". Chic shaped hip hop, r&b, dance and pop music that followed.

[macnorton]

Tom Waits not being in proves that the Hall has ZERO street cred. Rush as well, what the fuck?

[Dubya]

Just because a band puts out a great album or two does not make them HOF worthy.

Any Hall of Fame is about career achievements over time. Except this one. This one is about the tiny group of voters who pick only the bands THEY like or deem worthy, regardless of achievements. It's a sham.

From the R&R's guidelines:
Criteria include the influence and significance of the artists’ contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll.

I appreciate the fact that it is not based strictly on commercial success.

[xfilefanfreak]

WTF !! i dont care what anybody says dont give a rats ass ..MOTLEY FN CRUE needs to be in

[B5Erik]

From the R&R's guidelines:
Criteria include the influence and significance of the artists’ contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll.


So what did Chic to to develop or perpetuate Rock and Roll??

Or Run DMC for that matter?

Look, Alice Cooper, Deep Purple, KISS, Rush, Dire Straits, Iron Maiden, YES, Judas Priest, Stevie Ray Vauhan, Peter Gabriel, Roxy Music, etc, etc, etc all have done more to develop and perpetuate Rock and Roll than any of the current nominees (with the possible exceptions of Iggy and the Stooges and Metallica).

They deserve to get in BEFORE the current crop of nominees.

Chic before YES? Before KISS? Before Alice Cooper? Before ANY of the bands I listed? Come on! Maybe at some later time, but now? Before those other artists/bands get in? PUH-LEEEEEEEZE!! Give me a break! That's just a joke.

[B5Erik]

well, you're looking at it from a "disco sucks" rock bias where The Bee Gees probably still suck. Chic fell off the radar by 1980 but Nile Rodgers as a producer and songwriter lasted well into the 90's. He gave us David Bowie's Let's Dance (the only time he ever truly conquered America), he gave us Madonna's Like A Virgin (the album that launched her into superstardom), he gave us Diana Ross' Diana (the ONLY solo album of her career that was ever treated as relevant). He is responsible for the only two #1 Duran Duran singles, etc.... "Good Times" formed the basis for "Rapper's Delight", the very first hip hop track to ever cross over. The Chic sound has been oft-copied even in recent music, Justin Timberlake's "Rock Your Body" is a total Chic-ripoff. Hell, even "Billie Jean" had the Nile Rodgers stamp all over it even if it was a Quincy Jones production.

There are only a small number of disco-era artists I think are HOF era, The Bee Gees, Donna Summer (and Giorgio Moroder) and Chic. Chic's influence in music goes well beyond "Le Freak". Chic shaped hip hop, r&b, dance and pop music that followed.

And Thin Lizzy & UFO helped shape almost all Hard Rock that came out in the 80's, and they had longer careers and more success internationally than Chic (forget Nile Rodgers - his production work isn't why they were nominated).

So would you concede that the bands I mentioned - including Thin Lizzy and UFO deserve to get in if Chic does?

[db27]

every artist good or bad (my opinion or yours) is influential to someone at some point and therefore has or will at some point perpetuate the progress of rock and roll in one way or another.

therefore I declare that every band or artist deserves a place in the HOF eventually. I imagine most of if not all of the artists mentioned in this thread will get in.

bottom line IMO is that our opinions really don't mean shit :) and I wish they were still having the ceremony in NYC since I now live here!

[B5Erik]

I imagine most of if not all of the artists mentioned in this thread will get in.

I wish. Jan Wenner won't let that happen. He's calling the shots. He hates a lot of the bands on the list, and he basically vetoes them every year. That's bullshit. That's why this HOF is a sham.

bottom line IMO is that our opinions really don't mean shit.
Nope. Pretty much the only one that REALLY matters is Jan Wenner's.

[Jason]

How many hit albums did The Velvet Underground have? Let's just put any band with a bunch of hit albums in there no matter what their artistic merit is.

So bands that have lots of hits can't have artistic merit?

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3056/thebeatlespictures90px3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[cranberries fan]

What about Kraftwerk why are they not in the Hall Of Fame?

1974- and still rockin the house!

[Sean O'Hara]

This is 2008. The "disco sucks" mentality ended a long time ago.


Disco ended a long time ago, eliminating the need to say, "disco sucks." But that doesn't mean disco stopped sucking.

If they want to have a Pop Music Hall of Fame, that'd be fine, but if they call it the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they shouldn't include Chic, Madonna, or Run DMC. That'd be like the Country Music Hall of Fame inducting Nine Inch Nails -- after all, Reznor's song "Hurt" gave Johnny Cash his last big hit.

[Gunde]

I am not a hip hop fan, but those guys definately belong in there. Walk This Way almost singlehandedly brought hip hop to the mainstream.
Yeah but this isn't the Hip Hop Hall of Fame. It's Rock and Roll for Pete's sake!

[Dubya]

So bands that have lots of hits can't have artistic merit?

I don't seem to recall saying that in my post. Another poster asked how many hit albums Chic had? The Velvet Underground (as an example) didn't have "hit" albums. Should they be excluded even though they are one of the most influential bands of all time?

[lisadoris]

I am a bit confused by people arguing that acts like Run DMC shouldn't be in the HOF because it's all about rock & roll. So should folks like Muddy Waters or B.B. King not be in there because they're blues artists, not r&r artists? How about Miles Davis (jazz) or Mahalia Jackson (gospel). It's not just about r&r, it's about the genres that gave birth to r&r and if we concede that, as the Hall already has, then we also have to give a shout out to the genres r&r helped give birth to (hip hop).

Yes there are artists that deserve to be inducted that haven't been (I'm a bit miffed about Stevie Ray Vaughn being left off the ballot) but that doesn't mean that these other artists don't deserve induction.

[macnorton]

I am a bit confused by people arguing that acts like Run DMC shouldn't be in the HOF because it's all about rock & roll. So should folks like Muddy Waters or B.B. King not be in there because they're blues artists, not r&r artists? How about Miles Davis (jazz) or Mahalia Jackson (gospel). It's not just about r&r, it's about the genres that gave birth to r&r and if we concede that, as the Hall already has, then we also have to give a shout out to the genres r&r helped give birth to (hip hop).

Yes there are artists that deserve to be inducted that haven't been (I'm a bit miffed about Stevie Ray Vaughn being left off the ballot) but that doesn't mean that these other artists don't deserve induction.

I agree...not only that rock and roll (and punk rock, my favorite example) is a subjective term. What is the definition...does it have to have a guitar, bass, drums? If it is Run DMC would meet that criteria.

Punk is a better example. Blink 182, not punk...The Stooges, punk. But why not Blink? Well apparently nowadays you can be punk if someone else says so, you dress a certain way, or you become a hit but don't want to be. Give me a break. You can't be anti-establishment and cater to them. Though granted they are all there to take your money, some just aren't as overt about it.

Anyways the point I am making is, rock and roll, to me, is more about things being different and innovative rather that defining music by genres.

[B5Erik]

But excluding great, influential Rock and Roll bands from the 70's and 80's, and inducting Rap & Pop artists who started long AFTER those Rock bands had been successful is just wrong.

If they want to induct Pop & Rap artists of the 80's, that's fine IF they've already inducted all the ROCK bands from the 60's & 70's that are worthy of induction. The problem is - well, you've seen the list. There are dozens of bands deserving of induction who are a decade or more behind.

The inductees are not inducted because they're worthy of induction, they're inducted because the tiny group of voters (a panel, more or less) likes them and uses their personal tastes to determine who is and who isn't worthy of induction. And if the panel deems someone worthy that Jan Wenner doesn't like? He basically vetoes that artist/band and they don't get in.

How is that legitimate? Imagine one sportswriter keeping Emmitt Smith out of the Pro Football Hall of Fame simply because he thought it was the Cowboys offensive line that made Smith great. He may be the only one who really believes that, but if it was a writer with the kind of sway that Jan Wenner has with the R&RHOF then Smith (one of the most deserving inductees if his generation) would never get in.

That's what's going on, more or less, and it's wrong. That's why the R&RHOF is a total sham.

[Josh-da-man]

Disco sucked in the 70s.

But about fifteen years later it became kitschy.

So while it still technically sucks, it's okay to dance to it at weddings and parties.

[nothingfails]

Yeah but this isn't the Hip Hop Hall of Fame. It's Rock and Roll for Pete's sake!

will rock fans stop being Nazis!!! There are country acts in the HOF, there are gospel acts in the HOF, there are r&b acts in the HOF. This is nothing new.

[nothingfails]

Disco ended a long time ago, eliminating the need to say, "disco sucks." But that doesn't mean disco stopped sucking.

If they want to have a Pop Music Hall of Fame, that'd be fine, but if they call it the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they shouldn't include Chic, Madonna, or Run DMC. That'd be like the Country Music Hall of Fame inducting Nine Inch Nails -- after all, Reznor's song "Hurt" gave Johnny Cash his last big hit.

does it miff you that Johnny Cash in the R&R HOF? If it doesn't, then you're a hypocrite. He's no more "rock" than Chic, Madonna or Run-DMC, no matter how many NIN and Soundgarden songs he covered in his last years.

Disco music is great, the stuff Giorgio Moroder did was decades ahead of its time and was closer to Kraftwerk than The Village People.

[nothingfails]

I wonder if the "rock snobs" realize how much people laugh at them. There is far more to rock than AC/DC and Metallica.

As far as I'm concerned, the R&R Hall Of Fame rewards the significant artists of the ROCK ERA. The "Rock Era" pretty much is agreed on for beginning in the 50's, and many of those early pioneers sound nothing like the AC/DC, Van Halen, Rolling Stones idea of what "Rock N' Roll" is supposed to be about. Same goes with other artists who have made major impressions in the Rock era. Michael Jackson may be pop, but he released the biggest album of the Rock era, so he belongs in the HOF. Madonna may be pop, but she is without a doubt the most successful and arguably influencial female artist of the last 25 years in the ROCK ERA. Same with Run-DMC and other rappers. I HATE HIP HOP WITH A PASSION.... but it is an important part of the Rock Era and the HOF would only look more irrelevant than they already are if they didn't induct some of the important hip hop artists of the period.

Now if this was a "Hard Rock" HOF, I can understand. But open your mind and realize there's an entire world of music outside of AC/DC and Metallica out there that have taken place during the "Rock Era". Imagine if we had the internet back in the 80's in the pre-Beatles days when gospel, country and r&b artists were being inducted to the left and right. Aretha Franklin is arguably less "rock" than Madonna, but because she's been around since the 50's, her inclusion makes more sense? Please.

[fumanstan]

I think it would be less of an issue if they just called it something else rather then having those who defend it shoe-horn various artists in performers into categories that somehow fit or come up with other random reasons and explanations for their induction.

Those seem far more silly and laughable to me :)

[DaveWadding]

Madonna may be pop, but she is without a doubt the most successful and arguably influencial female artist of the last 25 years in the ROCK ERA.

Janis Joplin would like to have a word. ;)

[DJLinus]

Janis Joplin would like to have a word. ;)

Did she rise from the grave in 1983? :confused: :)

[DaveWadding]

Did she rise from the grave in 1983? :confused: :)

lol I missed that part...joke still stands.

[nothingfails]

Did she rise from the grave in 1983? :confused: :)

I didn't like Janis' 1980's period where she sold out and did the Starship/Heart thing, but her recent stuff was great. I could do without the upcoming duets album, does she think she's Carlos Santana or something? :)

[Josh-da-man]

Pretty much the only one that REALLY matters is Jan Wenner's.

Can't say I'm really surprised.

It's seemed that the RaRHOF inductees have been the artists that Rolling Stone magazine jerks off over -- the Jackson Browne types. And whenever they let someone in like Led Zeppelin, it's actually sort of surprising.

[B5Erik]

Can't say I'm really surprised.

It's seemed that the RaRHOF inductees have been the artists that Rolling Stone magazine jerks off over -- the Jackson Browne types. And whenever they let someone in like Led Zeppelin, it's actually sort of surprising.
Yeah, it's kind of pathetic.

Why isn't KISS in? (Let's face it, there are few bands that have had more influence on bands that followed them than KISS did - more guys picked up guitars or started playing drums because of KISS than just about any other band of their era.) But why aren't they in? Jan Wenner HATES them with a passion. He even refused to cover the DEATH of one of their band members in Rolling Stone in their music news section! That was a classless act that showed what a jerk Wenner really is, and it also shows why the bands that he doesn't personally like or approve of don't get into the HOF.

When Jan Wenner personally decides that someone is unworthy they don't have a chance. One man makes that decision. ONE. And no one stands up to him.

That's the root of why the R&RHOF is a sham.

[nothingfails]

Janis Joplin would like to have a word. ;)

and so would Aretha Franklin, she doesn't take too kindly when someone dares say another female artist is more influencial than her for all time (http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/02/13/aretha_franklin_upset_tina_turner_was_ca)

[GreenVulture]

If hip-hop is now allowed, Public Enemy better be on the ballot next year. Responsible for the greatest rap album of all time, It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back, they blow Run DMC out of the water artistically.
I could never get into It Takes A Nation that much. Fear of a Black Planet, as far as I'm concerned, is their finest hour.

[Chrisedge]

The main problem is Jan picks the nine folks that get nominated, then those nine are voted on by 500+ rock critics/folks. If he allowed the 500+ to pick the noms too...it would be a completely different story.

[cdollaz]

I could never get into It Takes A Nation that much. Fear of a Black Planet, as far as I'm concerned, is their finest hour.

I'm with you. I always thought It Takes A Nation was good, but Fear Of A Black Planet is great from top to bottom, with a lot of variety, which is something It Takes A Nation lacked.

[William Fuld]

I'm beginning to think B5Erik thinks the Hall of Fame is a sham.

[cdollaz]

I'm beginning to think B5Erik thinks the Hall of Fame is a sham.

Also, the world is out to get the San Diego Chargers.

[B5Erik]

Also, the world is out to get the San Diego Chargers.
Ed Hochuli, anyone?? ;)

[B5Erik]

I'm beginning to think B5Erik thinks the Hall of Fame is a sham.
With the way that the artists are nominated and voted on, don't you?

[Chrisedge]

This might be the only thread where I completely agree with B5Erik!

[William Fuld]

With the way that the artists are nominated and voted on, don't you?

Absolutely, but it's nothing to get riled up about.

[nothingfails]

I think Jann should let the others vote in one other artist to vote in instead of playing God. This way acts like Kiss, Rush, Chicago and others who are on his shit list at least get considered,

[macnorton]

Wasn't it Angelica Pickles who once said, "A club isn't a club unless you don't let people in?" Seems like the God analogy works when it comes to who gets in and who doesn't.

[B5Erik]

Wasn't it Angelica Pickles who once said, "A club isn't a club unless you don't let people in?" Seems like the God analogy works when it comes to who gets in and who doesn't.

A Hall of Fame isn't supposed to be based on personal feelings. It's supposed to be more objective than that.

It should be based on a combination of success, longevity, influence, and quality. There are a lot of bands - all mentioned on this thread - who DESERVE to get in, but won't because of the way the system is set up.

We're not talking about letting Eddie Money and Loverboy in, we're talking some of the most iconic artists EVER, but they don't have a chance. That's not right. That also seriously hurts the credibility of the R&RHOF.

[sauce07]

The RRHOF is just embarrassing, I think Metallica should get in, War was a great band (especially with Eric Burden), The Stooges I can except, but the rest should not get in. When Run DMC gets brought up nobody ever talks about how much they did for Rock & Roll, its always what they did for Aerosmith and getting rap played on MTV. I like Run DMC, but they don't fit. Little Anthony & the Imperials were good but i'm sorry they were just another doo-wop group, Wanda Jackson was too small to even be considered, Chic has some good merrits but not enough to be voted in.

This brings me, like many others, to my yearly complaint. WHY NO RUSH?

[nothingfails]

When Run DMC gets brought up nobody ever talks about how much they did for Rock & Roll, its always what they did for Aerosmith and getting rap played on MTV. I like Run DMC, but they don't fit.

1. They were the first band to merge rap and rock, which led to all the Kid Rock crap and the sort. Crap for sure, but Run-DMC are responsible and credited
2. Remember, this is about the ROCK ERA, not the narrowminded idea of AC/DC and Metallica as "what rock music is supposed to be about". The rock era started in the 50's, and rap/hip hop is a very important part of the Rock era in the past 20 years. I cannot stress how many times that I hate rap music, but it's here to stay and many of the forefathers of the genre are now legends. I am with you that "rap sucks", but look at the bigger picture. This isn't meant to cater to what you or I like, but to the most significant and influencial artists of the ROCK ERA. The Rock Era encompasses all major artists from the past 50-55 years or so, not just the AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, Ozzy Osbourne "Classic Rock" radio staples. Deal with it.

[Lastyear]

I think you have an apples to oranges comparison there, but it is an awesome record to say the least. PE deserves to be in the Hall just as much as Metallica.

I do suppose opinions differ on The Stooges...some will say The Velvet Underground is more important, Television (who came later) and The MC5's. Either way The Stooges belong there.

EDIT - Something dawned on me, can you believe the MC5's and Stooges came from the same place (Detroit Rock City) at the same time (1969)? Fucking incredible. I was born way too late.
I'm from the Detroit area. Used to see Stooges and MC5 all the time. The MC5 were never recorded very well. If you never saw them live you have no idea how powerful they were.

[Lastyear]

For their sound and impact on the emerging late 1960s heavy rock scene one would think that Vanilla Fudge might get a mention while some of the guys are still alive and playing.... I gather a version of the band still plays from time to time.

You gotta be kidding? One of the worst bands ever. Their whole schtick was just to slow everything down. Their Beat Goes On record is probably the most pretentious drivel ever recorded.

[macnorton]

I'm from the Detroit area. Used to see Stooges and MC5 all the time. The MC5 were never recorded very well. If you never saw them live you have no idea how powerful they were.

That doesn't surprise me at all. Both bands, from what I have seen/heard, are an open flame to gasoline...personally, music doesn't have that nowadays. Or at least, not mainstream music.

[macnorton]

A Hall of Fame isn't supposed to be based on personal feelings. It's supposed to be more objective than that.

It should be based on a combination of success, longevity, influence, and quality. There are a lot of bands - all mentioned on this thread - who DESERVE to get in, but won't because of the way the system is set up.

We're not talking about letting Eddie Money and Loverboy in, we're talking some of the most iconic artists EVER, but they don't have a chance. That's not right. That also seriously hurts the credibility of the R&RHOF.

Yup I agree. Sadly though that is not the case at all.

Actually a good example, which I have used before, is how fucked up the baseball hall of fame is. Buck O'Neil not getting in, that was tragic. But one of the arguments I have is closers. The voters bitch about the save and how a closer can't get in to the hall. They don't count the stat! It is that simple. Or the DH...get rid of it. End the argument.

No excuse for a lot of the bands listed a few pages back to not be in the hall.

[benedict]

[Vanilla Fudge]You gotta be kidding? One of the worst bands ever. Their whole schtick was just to slow everything down. Their Beat Goes On record is probably the most pretentious drivel ever recorded.By most accounts that album pretty much killed them. It happens. Remember that I'm talking more about their sound. I know that much of their output was psychedelic covers.

As I say, the band's sound has to have influenced the development of hard/heavy/prog rock. As well as the slowed down grunge-y sound, I think they pioneeered the organ before Deep Purple and other such bands.

Alongside Ginger Baker and Keith Moon, I think Carmine Appice was a pretty influential drummer. Not particularly relevant, but did you know that Appice co-wrote "D'Ya Think I'm Sexy?" and "Young Turks" for Rod Stewart? And I think he and Bogert were quite successful in both Cactus and Beck, Bogert and Appice.

Anyway, tis just a thought :)

[Sean O'Hara]

I wonder if the "rock snobs" realize how much people laugh at them. There is far more to rock than AC/DC and Metallica.


Yes, rock snobs only like AC/DC and Metallica.

[sauce07]

1. They were the first band to merge rap and rock, which led to all the Kid Rock crap and the sort. Crap for sure, but Run-DMC are responsible and credited
2. Remember, this is about the ROCK ERA, not the narrowminded idea of AC/DC and Metallica as "what rock music is supposed to be about". The rock era started in the 50's, and rap/hip hop is a very important part of the Rock era in the past 20 years. I cannot stress how many times that I hate rap music, but it's here to stay and many of the forefathers of the genre are now legends. I am with you that "rap sucks", but look at the bigger picture. This isn't meant to cater to what you or I like, but to the most significant and influencial artists of the ROCK ERA. The Rock Era encompasses all major artists from the past 50-55 years or so, not just the AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, Ozzy Osbourne "Classic Rock" radio staples. Deal with it.


If this is the case then how come Garth Brooks has never been nominated? He was a huge artist in the "Rock Era," he bridged country and rock audiences, country-rock is huge now. His influence on modern music is as big, if not bigger, then Run-DMC.

[Rockmjd23]

If this is the case then how come Garth Brooks has never been nominated? He was a huge artist in the "Rock Era," he bridged country and rock audiences, country-rock is huge now. His influence on modern music is as big, if not bigger, then Run-DMC.
I agree. They should put composers and opera singers in too. Heck, why aren't softball and cricket players in the baseball hall of fame?

[Kelkee]

At the Grammys do you see every artist get one for their achievements in Rock and Roll? No, each winning artist gets one for their specific genre.

Just rename the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame to the Music Hall of Fame* (*according to Billboard) and be done with it.

If you want to really get nuts about it Rock and Roll ended sometime in the mid to late 50's early 60's. Rock and Roll artists have a specific sound in a specific era. There are no modern Rock and Roll artists that I know of. Elvis is a Rock and Roll artist. He fits the era and style. Roy Orbison I would also consider a Rock and Roll artist.

Madonna is not. She was born too late and her music sounds nothing like Rock and Roll. She is a Pop artist. She belongs in a Pop Hall of fame.

Run DMC is a no brainer. They are Rap artists.

"Rock Era" is a lazy meaningless term. Every artist in the past 50 years is now a Rock artist? Barry Manilow and Iron Maiden are now Rock artists? Pure Laziness.

[Lunatikk]

If this is the case then how come Garth Brooks has never been nominated? He was a huge artist in the "Rock Era," he bridged country and rock audiences, country-rock is huge now. His influence on modern music is as big, if not bigger, then Run-DMC.

I'm sure he will be, but it has only been 19 years since the release of his first album.

[nothingfails]

If this is the case then how come Garth Brooks has never been nominated? He was a huge artist in the "Rock Era," he bridged country and rock audiences, country-rock is huge now. His influence on modern music is as big, if not bigger, then Run-DMC.

Garth's first album came out in 1989, he's not eligible just yet.

Johnny Cash is in the HOF, isn't he? He's country

[nothingfails]

Madonna is not. She was born too late and her music sounds nothing like Rock and Roll. She is a Pop artist. She belongs in a Pop Hall of fame.

I think you look at it with a personal bias of what artists you like or dislike. There is no reason why Madonna shouldn't be allowed in a club that Aretha Franklin's been in for 20 years. Aretha has NEVER been a rock artist, no matter if she worked with Keith Richards once in the 80's or not. If that makes her "rock", then I guess Madonna should be considered rock too for working with Lenny Kravitz and Joe Henry.

[nothingfails]

Yes, rock snobs only like AC/DC and Metallica.

well, the people who complain most about the HOF are the people who mainly listen to "Classic Rock" and thinks if it can't fit alongside Zeppelin or Ozzy on a Classic Rock station, then it sucks and shouldn't be allowed an induction

[B5Erik]

well, the people who complain most about the HOF are the people who mainly listen to "Classic Rock" and thinks if it can't fit alongside Zeppelin or Ozzy on a Classic Rock station, then it sucks and shouldn't be allowed an induction
That's a bunch of horsepuckey.

I've said that Roxy Music, Albert King, the Doobie Brothers, Jethro Tull, Peter Gabriel, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and Yes all belong in the HOF along with KISS, Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, Rush, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. ALL of those bands should be inducted.

Now, the bands I mentioned first have a much greater chance than the bands I mentioned in the second group. They are all equally deserving, but one guy leads a group that is only slightly less narrow minded than he is when it comes to inductees. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that at least half the voters don't even know that KISS, for example, has more Gold albums than any other group. They don't know how many bands they've influenced, or just how much they changed concert presentations forever. Their opinions are based on snobbery and not much elese.

No one should take the R&RHOF seriously until they induct ALL bands from the 60's and 70's that deserve to be inducted. When bands as influential as Deep Purple, Roxy Music, KISS, Jethro Tull, Rush, and Yes aren't in it's a complete joke.

[sauce07]

Garth's first album came out in 1989, he's not eligible just yet.

Johnny Cash is in the HOF, isn't he? He's country

You're right, he is not eligible yet. I still think my point is valid (or else this will come up to haunt me in 6+ years) that Garth Brooks is not getting into the HOF, I can see why Johnny Cash is in because he had a Rock & Roll image.

[Lastyear]

Garth's first album came out in 1989, he's not eligible just yet.

Johnny Cash is in the HOF, isn't he? He's country

A lot of Cash's early work could be considered rock n' roll. And his influence of rock is very evident. Nick Cave for one. Garth Brooks just led to the young country movement-a downslide for country. I think it was Hank Williams III who referred to him as the antihank.

[Lastyear]

That's a bunch of horsepuckey.

I've said that Roxy Music, Albert King, the Doobie Brothers, Jethro Tull, Peter Gabriel, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and Yes all belong in the HOF along with KISS, Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, Rush, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. ALL of those bands should be inducted.

Now, the bands I mentioned first have a much greater chance than the bands I mentioned in the second group. They are all equally deserving, but one guy leads a group that is only slightly less narrow minded than he is when it comes to inductees. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that at least half the voters don't even know that KISS, for example, has more Gold albums than any other group. They don't know how many bands they've influenced, or just how much they changed concert presentations forever. Their opinions are based on snobbery and not much elese.

No one should take the R&RHOF seriously until they induct ALL bands from the 60's and 70's that deserve to be inducted. When bands as influential as Deep Purple, Roxy Music, KISS, Jethro Tull, Rush, and Yes aren't in it's a complete joke.

You ruin your argument by including Kiss. A novelty act. A very successful one granted but still a pretty crappy band. Otherwise I mostly agree with you.

[Sean O'Hara]

well, the people who complain most about the HOF are the people who mainly listen to "Classic Rock" and thinks if it can't fit alongside Zeppelin or Ozzy on a Classic Rock station, then it sucks and shouldn't be allowed an induction

And Metallica is Classic Rock now?

I listen to Johnny Cash and John Coltrane, but I don't think either of them belong in the Hall of Fame. I do think Talking Heads and the Velvet Underground belong, and they're completely different from the bands you name as examples of classic rock.

[tcoursen]

And Metallica is Classic Rock now?



On the NYC classic rock station they play Metallica

[B5Erik]

You ruin your argument by including Kiss. A novelty act. A very successful one granted but still a pretty crappy band. Otherwise I mostly agree with you.
-rolleyes-

There are a bunch of artists in the HOF that I think are crappy. None of which influenced as many bands/artists as KISS has. Should they be taken out?

And NO novelty act lasts 35 years and has 30+ Gold albums. You can listen with your eyes all you want, but there are plenty of people who recognize that KISS had a hell of a lot of great Rock albums and songs.

The point is there are a lot of great bands - influential and succesful bands - who are not in and who will not get in any time soon, while true novelty acts like Chic and Run DMC get in.

[B5Erik]

You're right, he is not eligible yet. I still think my point is valid (or else this will come up to haunt me in 6+ years) that Garth Brooks is not getting into the HOF, I can see why Johnny Cash is in because he had a Rock & Roll image.
Johnny Cash also had some Rock and Roll songs that he wrote and recorded very early on in his career. He leaned Country, but played Rock and Roll at that point. He leaned further and further Country as time went on, but he never lost his Rock and Roll image.

[wishbone]

And Metallica is Classic Rock now?Our classic rock station played "Eye of the Beholder" back in '88 when Metallica was playing a concert downtown. :shrug:

[rw2516]

Johnny Cash also had some Rock and Roll songs that he wrote and recorded very early on in his career. He leaned Country, but played Rock and Roll at that point. He leaned further and further Country as time went on, but he never lost his Rock and Roll image.

Most '50s Rock 'n' Roll artists were country artists. They jumped on the R & R bandwagon because it was the only way they could get studios to record them or to have a hit. Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Bill Haley, Big Bopper were mainly country. Little Richard started as New Orleans blues. When rock and roll died out in 59 they went back to county or disappeared. A lot of the one hit wonders of the 50s were country artists who did that one rock n roll song.

[zombeaner]

This is 2008. The "disco sucks" mentality ended a long time ago.

Yes, but disco still sucks.

Why not Chic? Nile Rodgers was one of the most successful producers of the 1980's, producing some of the biggest hits for people like David Bowie, Madonna, Carly Simon and many other successful artists. I know Madonna's status in the HOF is a controversial one... but she's in there before the man who gave her Like A Virgin and Material Girl?

Irrelevant to Chic's merits.

The Chic sound is very influencial in funk and dance music, and hip hop as well. They weren't "just some disco band".

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I just happen to think that yours is wrong.

[nothingfails]

And Metallica is Classic Rock now?

yes, they are. I hear Enter Sandman and Nothing Really Matters on the local classic rock station

[nothingfails]

Yes, but disco still sucks.

that's all your opinion. Many people can look back and realize that the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack was a great album, same with Giorgio and Donna Summer's work together. Yes, there was a lot of crap from that era, but people have been able to weed out the bad from the good now and realize there was a lot of good disco music. A lot of the anti-disco stuff is just pure homophobia and racism to an extent (just like people don't want hip hop in the HOF)

Irrelevant to Chic's merits.

howso? Nile Rodgers IS Chic for the most part. In addition to the hits he wrote and produced as a member of Chic, Nile scored countless hits for Bowie, Madonna, Diana Ross, Duran Duran and many others, which shows that his influence in pop music spread pretty far in the 1980's with a lot of influence to this day in r&b and dance music. Like said before, Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" is a perfect example of a song that was completely influenced by Nile Rodgers' production and stamp. MJ scored his biggest hit ever with a Nile-sounding track. That says it all.

[Turd Ferguson]

It's time for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to officially change its name to the "Hall of Mostly Mediocre Shitbags That Jann Wenner Wants To Pander To In A Desperate Attempt To Remain Relevant".

[Sean O'Hara]

yes, they are. I hear Enter Sandman and Nothing Really Matters on the local classic rock station

Program directors are retards. Metallica isn't classic rock by any reasonable standard.

[nothingfails]

Program directors are retards. Metallica isn't classic rock by any reasonable standard.

there seems to be a general "if it's over fifteen years old.... it's classic rock" mentality on those stations. I am hearing lots of Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots played on Classic Rock now as well.

[CaseyB]

Why would you induct a rap group into the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?"

[Jason]

there seems to be a general "if it's over fifteen years old.... it's classic rock" mentality on those stations. I am hearing lots of Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots played on Classic Rock now as well.

Are they supposed to just play Sweet Home Alabama and Black Dog on an endless loop?

[nothingfails]

Are they supposed to just play Sweet Home Alabama and Black Dog on an endless loop?

hmmm, there's a lot of great 70's rock I've never heard on classic rock stations. How about playing some Bowie besides Changes, or some Talking Heads or some Clash besides "Combat Rock" era material, or some Lou Reed besides Walk On The Wild Side or some solo George Harrison or some deeper Queen cuts, or whatever else. It's the radio stations who have abused certain songs and have forgotten that there was much more in the 1970's besides Zeppelin, Skynyrd and Floyd.

I've defended grunge and 90's rock here many times, but IMO, it's not old enough for classic rock. Most of the people who reviled it when it was current were the 70's and 80's rock fans... yet now that it's aged a bit, it's being lumped in with them? I don't think the average Zep or AC/DC fan who hated Nirvana or Pearl Jam in 1994 likes them any more now just because more time has passed. I doubt that classic rockers who hate Fall Out Boy are suddenly going to love them in 2020 when Sugar We're Going Down makes its debut on a classic rock station. Plus... most of the grunge/alternative 90's bands still get played on modern rock stations, it's hardly like they've really had time to age and become classic. When the classic rock stations started playing Motley Crue and Skid Row and the sort a few years back, it'd been ages since they'd been played on the radio, it felt right on there. Nirvana and Pearl Jam still feel a good ten years away from Led Zeppelin IV territory.

[Gerry P.]

howso? Nile Rodgers IS Chic for the most part. That's not true. Chic was equal parts Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards.
You ruin your argument by including Kiss. A novelty act. A very successful one granted but still a pretty crappy band. Otherwise I mostly agree with you.Some people just can't get beyond the makeup.

[zombeaner]

howso? Nile Rodgers IS Chic for the most part. In addition to the hits he wrote and produced as a member of Chic, Nile scored countless hits for Bowie, Madonna, Diana Ross, Duran Duran and many others, which shows that his influence in pop music spread pretty far in the 1980's with a lot of influence to this day in r&b and dance music. Like said before, Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" is a perfect example of a song that was completely influenced by Nile Rodgers' production and stamp. MJ scored his biggest hit ever with a Nile-sounding track. That says it all.

Then nominate Rodgers and his ridiculous hair. A person's success outside of their band has no bearing on the relevance of the band's worthiness. We should then be nominating Exodus because Kirk Hammett went on to great things in Metallica.

[Sean O'Hara]

Are they supposed to just play Sweet Home Alabama and Black Dog on an endless loop?

They could delve deeper into their vaults and find some Velvet Undgerground, The MC5, The Sonics, Frijid Pink, Link Wray, Stooges, Brian Eno, Meat Loaf, Nick Drake-- there's tons of great classic rock that never gets played on the radio.

[nothingfails]

They could delve deeper into their vaults and find some Velvet Undgerground, The MC5, The Sonics, Frijid Pink, Link Wray, Stooges, Brian Eno, Meat Loaf, Nick Drake-- there's tons of great classic rock that never gets played on the radio.

exactly. So many people find classic rock boring just because they only play the same tired songs. There are so many unplayed artists that classic rock stations could still be exclusively pre-1981 (MTV) and people wouldn't complain about it. It's only because they won't play anything besides Eagles, Skynyrd, Zeppelin, etc... that people find Classic Rock so dull

[B5Erik]

exactly. So many people find classic rock boring just because they only play the same tired songs. There are so many unplayed artists that classic rock stations could still be exclusively pre-1981 (MTV) and people wouldn't complain about it. It's only because they won't play anything besides Eagles, Skynyrd, Zeppelin, etc... that people find Classic Rock so dull
I did a Classic Rock internet show for a few months a couple years back and I played songs from the big bands (Zep, Purple, Stones, etc), but I played deeper album cuts, and then I played songs from lesser known 70's bands (Legs Diamond, Starz, etc) that had really good songs that fit the format.

By playing songs from the lesser known, but really good, bands from the 70's it would almost be like playing new material for a lot of classic rock fans - giving the format new life.

But program & music directors for most stations get their material from a central programmer (ie: Clear Channel's main office). Why an independent station playing classic rock wouldn't do it is beyond me.

[rw2516]

You listen to classic rock stations and you think all they have on hand are best of cds. Maybe when then switched from vinyl to cd they just ran out and got greatest hits cds instead of replacing the main albums. It is pretty boring and repetitive. There was a time though, when everyone was still recording on a regular basis and all this stuff was new that it sounded pretty good. In 1978 you would hear Running With The Devil, Miss You, Hot Blooded, Blue Collar Man, Time For Me To Fly, Fat Bottom Girls, etc. several times a day, but it was all brand new and sounded great. So much new stuff was being released that older songs got a lot less airplay. Around the mid nineties they stopped concentrating on new releases and just playing existing releases into the ground. A lot of what is so tired sounding are actually album cuts, not charting hits.
Is Beaker Street(or is it Beeker?) stiil around? KAAY Little Rock, Arkansas was a top 40 station until 11pm. From 11pm to 2am they would crank up the watts and play deep album tracks. You could pick up the station crystal clear in Mo, Ks, Tx, Ia, La. I remember them playing the entire Uriah Heep Live album. I discovered Nazareth, Mott The Hoople, Humble Pie and a lot of other bands listening to it.

[DJLinus]

The point is there are a lot of great bands - influential and succesful bands - who are not in and who will not get in any time soon, while true novelty acts like Chic and Run DMC get in.

I totally agree with a lot of your points - lots of bands should be in first, Jan Wenner's a tool with too much HOF power, etc. - but I'd hardly call Run-DMC a novelty act.

Well, maybe they'd be considered a novelty to those who think hip-hop is a passing fad. A "fad" that's lasted since the 70s, I should add. :lol:

[macnorton]

I totally agree with a lot of your points - lots of bands should be in first, Jan Wenner's a tool with too much HOF power, etc. - but I'd hardly call Run-DMC a novelty act.

Well, maybe they'd be considered a novelty to those who think hip-hop is a passing fad. A "fad" that's lasted since the 70s, I should add. :lol:

True hip-hop is a fad now. That top 40 noise they call hip-hop today is total fucking garbage.

[nothingfails]

You listen to classic rock stations and you think all they have on hand are best of cds. Maybe when then switched from vinyl to cd they just ran out and got greatest hits cds instead of replacing the main albums. It is pretty boring and repetitive.

I agree. I seriously almost had a heart attack once a few months ago when I heard "Play Guitar" by John Mellencamp on the classic rock station nearby. I suppose the only reason they decided to take the liberty to play a deeper album cut by him (and I've also heard "lesser hits" like This Time and Pop Singer on there too) is because he's a local favorite and only lives about an hour north. But I wish they'd do the same to all the artists.

[B5Erik]

I totally agree with a lot of your points - lots of bands should be in first, Jan Wenner's a tool with too much HOF power, etc. - but I'd hardly call Run-DMC a novelty act.

Well, maybe they'd be considered a novelty to those who think hip-hop is a passing fad. A "fad" that's lasted since the 70s, I should add. :lol:
The novelty of Run DMC was the Rap using Hard Rock samples thing. That's what they are most known for (even if they did other things within the genre).

I do have a problem, though, putting in, "artists," who couldn't play musical instruments and whose, "music" was basically bits of other artists recordings. As a musician myself I find honoring artists who did that to be more than a bit insulting to all the real musicians who deserve induction but will probably never get it.

[Matt Bowers]

At the Grammys do you see every artist get one for their achievements in Rock and Roll? No, each winning artist gets one for their specific genre.

Just rename the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame to the Music Hall of Fame* (*according to Billboard) and be done with it.



Amen. There are tons of artists in the RRHOF that I respect but don't feel should be in the RRHOF. DUSTY SPRINGFIELD, JOHNNY CASH, & MADONNA immediately come to mind. Rap, Country, R&B, Disco, & Pop artists should not be in a Hall of Fame dedicated to ROCK and ROLL. Period. End of story. Just think how pissed country fans would be if CHEAP TRICK was put in the RAP HALL of FAME or if METALLICA made it in the COUNTRY HALL of FAME. It just doesn't make any sense. Rename it then we can open a true ROCK and ROLL HALL of FAME here in MEMPHIS where it should've been in the first place. :) Oh yeah, mark my words, GARTH BROOKS will be in the RRHOF eventually. I guarantee it. It doesn't make sense, so it will happen.

[Jason]

I do have a problem, though, putting in, "artists," who couldn't play musical instruments and whose, "music" was basically bits of other artists recordings. As a musician myself I find honoring artists who did that to be more than a bit insulting to all the real musicians who deserve induction but will probably never get it.

So should artists who don't play instruments at all be allowed in? A lot of the 60's motown groups were just groups of vocalists. So is Run DMC. What's the difference?

[Matt Bowers]

So should artists who don't play instruments at all be allowed in? A lot of the 60's motown groups were just groups of vocalists. So is Run DMC. What's the difference?

Hmmm, to me it's all about whether it was rock or not. So if a singer or singing group were rock then they should be eligible. But I can't think of any vocal rock groups where this would apply. As far as solo singers, I definitely think vocalists like TINA TURNER or JANIS JOPLIN should be in the RRHOF. I don't think Motown groups or RUN DMC should be in the ROCK and ROLL HALL of FAME. The fact that they are in is one of the reasons why the RRHOF is not a legitimate institution IMHO.

[B5Erik]

So should artists who don't play instruments at all be allowed in? A lot of the 60's motown groups were just groups of vocalists. So is Run DMC. What's the difference?
Run DMC doesn't even sing. They speak in metered rhyme. They don't carry a melody. Those singing groups did.

[macnorton]

Amen. There are tons of artists in the RRHOF that I respect but don't feel should be in the RRHOF. DUSTY SPRINGFIELD, JOHNNY CASH, & MADONNA immediately come to mind. Rap, Country, R&B, Disco, & Pop artists should not be in a Hall of Fame dedicated to ROCK and ROLL. Period. End of story. Just think how pissed country fans would be if CHEAP TRICK was put in the RAP HALL of FAME or if METALLICA made it in the COUNTRY HALL of FAME. It just doesn't make any sense. Rename it then we can open a true ROCK and ROLL HALL of FAME here in MEMPHIS where it should've been in the first place. :) Oh yeah, mark my words, GARTH BROOKS will be in the RRHOF eventually. I guarantee it. It doesn't make sense, so it will happen.

This is an a great example of the definition of "rock and roll" being unclear. You are saying that "rock and roll" has to be artists that play "rock and roll". I am not saying there is a problem with that, but that would shrink the hall down to maybe 100 bands or so.

I on the other hand, look at "rock and roll" from a different perspective. I feel it is more about impact rather than definition. The Stooges, not rock and roll by the tradition definition, but they invented punk. The bombast, the energy, the attitude, it is much more than just the music. Or even Alice Cooper, the theatrics he brought to the game is staggering, even if his music is mediocre at best. And the same could be said for Kiss, who are known for their live performances rather than their studio output.

If you continue to use my definition, Run DMC gets in. They really merged rock and rap into one entity. I think about how many hip-hop fans became Aerosmith fans and vice versa. That alone has to be taken into consideration. However I digress, since opinions will forever be mixed on this topic. That doesn't make one right or wrong, it simply isn't clear on what the term "rock and roll" means.

[benedict]

In various interviews that I've seen, <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmy" target="_blank" style="text-decoration:none">Ian Kilmister</a> generally labels Motörhead as a rock'n'roll band.

[boredsilly]

True hip-hop is a fad now. That top 40 noise they call hip-hop today is total fucking garbage.

There are fads in rap music (vocoder/autotune nonsense) just like there are in every other genre. However, true hip-hop is as alive and vibrant as ever. Ok, not as great as 87-95 was, but there is still a ton of great shit out there. But just like every other genre that becomes entrenched, the good stuff isn't played on the radio.

What "top 40" music isn't generally the most inoffensive and watered down stuff around for any genre?

[macnorton]

There are fads in rap music (vocoder/autotune nonsense) just like there are in every other genre. However, true hip-hop is as alive and vibrant as ever. Ok, not as great as 87-95 was, but there is still a ton of great shit out there. But just like every other genre that becomes entrenched, the good stuff isn't played on the radio.

What "top 40" music isn't generally the most inoffensive and watered down stuff around for any genre?

Believe me there is still plenty of good stuff out there, but it is mostly underground. And even the stuff that does break into the mainstream, it is generally to off the wall (MF Doom is a good example) for the casual listener to "get".

I usually have this discussion (well sometimes argument) with people who think the top 40 stuff is the real deal. One has to be able to distinguish the two, once you do that, you can see hip-hop as a true and amazing art form.

But I digress, since there will always be teenagers buying this shit up until the end of time.

[yojimbo44]

They could delve deeper into their vaults and find some Velvet Undgerground, The MC5, The Sonics, Frijid Pink, Link Wray, Stooges, Brian Eno, Meat Loaf, Nick Drake-- there's tons of great classic rock that never gets played on the radio.

I work in radio and a few months ago programming and music responsibilities feel into my lap - unfortunately, i must be one of the few people in radio who have heard these complaints and took them to heart. There are enough stations available that if someone wants a non-offensive station playing in the background it can be found - i programmed with the idea that if you get a listener to actively, and not passively, listen then you are doing something right. I tried several times to have our "format" explained to me - "Everything Classic" to me is a very vague term, so i started adding some of the stuff listed above along with Wilco, Elvis Costello, Little Feat, Warren Zevon, Aimee Mann, Concrete Blonde, Tom Waits, Patti Smith, Matthew Sweet, Joy Division, The Flaming Lips and much more,album cuts from other established artists, and local artists of note - surprisingly, this approach worked - people were listening and responding - and then, of course, management cracked down on me and we're back to some of the most uninspiring crap ever recorded. It has been tried, but because good music is as nebulous a term as "everything classic", they would rather stick with what is safe and familiar and i assume this is the trend followed almost everywhere as most stations want to program to reach the most amount of people while offending the least - a sad, sorry state of affairs.

and that phrase also applies to the RRHOF - it was an interesting and cool idea for the first ten years or so when the people who built the music were inducted, but now has become Jann Weiner's personal plaything - who can we get onstage to help us sell $10,000 a plate dinners? When some of the most influencial bands and artists of the last 40 years are still sitting on the sidelines while organizers are moving on to dance and hip-hop it has become a travesty of itself. I was stunned to learn last year that Neil Diamond isn't even in - he was just one of those i assumed would get in right away - and the acts mentioned in the last few pages have all contributed to Rock and Roll in a more meaningful way that perhaps Madonna or Run-DMC have.

[nothingfails]

Amen. There are tons of artists in the RRHOF that I respect but don't feel should be in the RRHOF. DUSTY SPRINGFIELD, JOHNNY CASH, & MADONNA immediately come to mind. Rap, Country, R&B, Disco, & Pop artists should not be in a Hall of Fame dedicated to ROCK and ROLL. Period. End of story. Just think how pissed country fans would be if CHEAP TRICK was put in the RAP HALL of FAME or if METALLICA made it in the COUNTRY HALL of FAME. It just doesn't make any sense. Rename it then we can open a true ROCK and ROLL HALL of FAME here in MEMPHIS where it should've been in the first place. :) Oh yeah, mark my words, GARTH BROOKS will be in the RRHOF eventually. I guarantee it. It doesn't make sense, so it will happen.

I can see where a lot of rock fans dislike Madonna because of the stereotype that people will call them a f*g if they're male and like them (nevermind the fact a lot of these people love Queen, R.E.M. and Elton John and don't mind it)... but what the hell is wrong with Johnny Cash or Dusty Springfield? DUSTY IN MEMPHIS is one of the greatest albums of all time, open your musical horizons a bit... and Cash... that man was the definition of a legend who stayed at the top of his game until the day he died, as his last few albums were amazing... and he reached an audience who never listens to country. Look at how the rock establishment loved his "American Recordings" albums, these are people who wouldn't be caught dead listening to Garth, Toby Keith, Kenny Chesney or any of that.

[Matt Bowers]

I can see where a lot of rock fans dislike Madonna because of the stereotype that people will call them a f*g if they're male and like them (nevermind the fact a lot of these people love Queen, R.E.M. and Elton John and don't mind it)... but what the hell is wrong with Johnny Cash or Dusty Springfield? DUSTY IN MEMPHIS is one of the greatest albums of all time, open your musical horizons a bit... and Cash... that man was the definition of a legend who stayed at the top of his game until the day he died, as his last few albums were amazing... and he reached an audience who never listens to country. Look at how the rock establishment loved his "American Recordings" albums, these are people who wouldn't be caught dead listening to Garth, Toby Keith, Kenny Chesney or any of that.

I thought I made myself clear but I'll try again. I like DUSTY and JOHHNY but neither are ROCK & ROLL. What's so hard to understand about that? I would just like the ROCK & ROLL HALL of FAME to be about ACTUAL rock artists. That's all. I think it's pretty simple really. BTW, I like MADONNA too. In fact I have all of her cd's even if the last 2 have pretty much sucked and not in a good way. My musical horizons are fairly wide just so you know. I've got over 20,000 songs on my iPod, touching on just about every single musical style except for polka. My argument is not about whether or not I like the artists that are currently in the RRHOF. It's about whether or not they should be in a hall of fame that is SUPPOSED to be dedicated to ROCK & ROLL. Personally I could deal with DUSTY & JOHNNY being in if artists like CHEAP TRICK, KISS & everybody else listed earlier in this thread where already in or at least had a shot of getting in eventually.

[Decker]

I believe Johnny Cash was a R&R HOF inaugural class member. His influence was as much a factor in the history of Rock & Roll as anyone. Listen to his early Sun recordings and tell me why he's any less deserving as Elvis or Carl Perkins. "Cry, Cry, Cry", "Hey Porter", "Folsom Prison Blues" are just as R&R as "Blue Suede Shoes" or "Hound Dog". His relationship with Bob Dylan changed both the face of country and rock music.
He may be known as a country artist, and rightfully so, but he's a rocker as well.

Besides, there is clearly a place in the HOF for influences and he's certainly that.

[Sean O'Hara]

I can see where a lot of rock fans dislike Madonna because of the stereotype that people will call them a f*g if they're male and like them (nevermind the fact a lot of these people love Queen, R.E.M. and Elton John and don't mind it)...

Why can't people dislike Madonna because she makes awful pop crap?

[nothingfails]

I thought I made myself clear but I'll try again. I like DUSTY and JOHHNY but neither are ROCK & ROLL. What's so hard to understand about that? I would just like the ROCK & ROLL HALL of FAME to be about ACTUAL rock artists. That's all. I think it's pretty simple really. BTW, I like MADONNA too. In fact I have all of her cd's even if the last 2 have pretty much sucked and not in a good way. My musical horizons are fairly wide just so you know. I've got over 20,000 songs on my iPod, touching on just about every single musical style except for polka. My argument is not about whether or not I like the artists that are currently in the RRHOF. It's about whether or not they should be in a hall of fame that is SUPPOSED to be dedicated to ROCK & ROLL. Personally I could deal with DUSTY & JOHNNY being in if artists like CHEAP TRICK, KISS & everybody else listed earlier in this thread where already in or at least had a shot of getting in eventually.


well, with Johnny, I think his importance and impact got him in, who cares if it's not the Stones idea of "rock". It reminds me of Stevie Wonder. He has always been a soul/r&b artist, but if he would be deemed unworthy of the Rock Hall because he's a soul/r&b artist and not a rocker, then I'd think the HOF would be a sham because his string of albums from 1972-1976 alone totally merited his induction even if he was r&b and not the idea of what rock music in the 70's was supposed to be. I think importance and influence matter. People like Cash and Stevie may not be rockers at heart, but they are well-respected by the "rock establishment" in ways that Kenny Chesney and R. Kelly can only dream of. To a lesser extent, it applies with Madonna even tho I wouldn't consider her anywhere as influencial, but she has respect from critics and rockers that people like Janet, Kylie and Britney can only dream of having. And factor in Johnny's latter years when he was covering NIN, Soundgarden, Depeche Mode, etc... this wasn't some bumpkin like Alan Jackson, the man was still hip into his senior years and reached a wide audience and fans of every walk of life.