moklerman

What is the general consensus regarding movies that aren't on DVD but are out of print? I recently bought a DVD/VCR recorder and thought about selling copies of OOP movies that I have to those that wouldn't mind a bootleg. But, I have absolutely no interest in taking a risk with the FBI or anything like that so I'm not even going to bother if there's any question about it.

But, as a couple of examples, Seven Per Cent Solution is a movie that I looked long and hard for. It's OOP and the version I have is in letterbox which was never released by the studio. If I offered copies of this would it be crossing a line that they'd go after me?

Or, Pirates of Penzance and Under the Rainbow. Both have never been released on DVD and command a decent price for VHS on eBay. If those were transferred from VHS to DVD is that a big "no-no"?

I'm not really interested in a career in scalping but I know the trouble I've had in finding various movies and thought it would be nice to offer them to others who may not have been as lucky to find them. I just think it's ridiculous for movies like Sleuth to be OOP already and fans to be forced to pay $$$ just to have a copy of it.

Perhaps I'm just frustrated and needed to vent. Any input would be appreciated though.

Thanks.

canaryfarmer

Unless they're public domain, you're entering the wonderful world of massive copyright infringement.

Goat3001

FBI will be on you like a horny dog on a leg. Don't do it.

bboisvert

You're breaking the law. Whether or not "they" will actually go after you is another question.

But have no illusions that copying a movie and then selling it is against the law. The fact that a studio has not yet released it on DVD or it is currently OOP is no free pass to bootleg.

The Cow

Seeing that are not supposed to even mention bootlegs (and this thread will probably get locked) on this website, what do you think?

canaryfarmer

hay guys, they don't make susan b anthony dollars anymore, and they sure can be hard to find! can i just make my own and then use them? they're OOP, so it's all good!

Norm de Plume

To my understanding, it is legal - if frowned upon - to copy movies from another region if they are not available domestically. For instance, if you have a R2 DVD or PAL VHS of a movie, and that movie is not in release in any format in North America, you may transfer it to NTSC and sell copies.

Numanoid

^ Umm, no.

Snowmaker

A long as you call them "backup copies".

Norm de Plume

Umm, yes, apparently a section of the Berne Act states: Films unreleased in the United States, including original versions of films altered and/or edited for release in the United States, are not protected by American copyright; thus, they are considered public domain.

How do you think the dozens of gray-market merchants like VSOM stay in business? It's "disreputable" - because no one's picking up royalties - but legal.

moklerman

thanks for the input, everyone. I really wasn't sure how OOP stuff fit into the bootlegging discussion. If it's OOP does that mean that some company is holding the rights to it but choosing to not make it available? Is it DVD rights or movie rights? If a DVD has never been released of the movie does it fall under that category? Like I said, I have no interest in doing anything remotely illegal and I fully support the DVD market by always buying studio releases when available. I guess that's why I feel so frustrated. I feel like I'm on their side but still have to pay out the nose for titles that don't really deserve it. Or not even have a DVD release. It blows my mind that a movie like the Pirates of Penzance, with Kevin Kline, Linda Ronstadt, Angela Lansbury, etc. wouldn't warrant a release by now. There's a live version available but it's not the same as the movie. I mean, they have the movie they just need to transfer it.

And, I realize that any suggestion that my intentions were altruistic would be hard to believe but I really thought it would be cool for those that want to see the uncut version of the Swamp Thing or a letterbox version of Seven Per Cent Solution or other oddball things that I've got would have an outlet. Or to trade or whatever. But, as I assumed, the simple act of transferring it is a "no-no" so I really don't want to risk it.

Oh well. The best laid plans...

canaryfarmer

And even less movies are going to make the transition to hi-def (for a number of reasons). Them's the breaks!

man*machine

I love whenever the Berne act gets brought up so bootleggers can steal whatever they want. First of all, most of these films have been "RELEASED" in the United States so what exactly does "unreleased" mean? That it's unreleased because it's currently OOP or that it just hasn't been released on the newest 'format" (DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) even though the film has been released theatrically, on VHS, laserdisc, and whatever other prior format. So the Berne act says you can do anything you want with any film as long as one format hasn't been covered yet. Yep, everyone should just go and steal and copy any film they want because there will always be some 'loophole' regarding 'unreleased' and variations. DARK KNIGHT is still "unreleased" on DVD - so everyone can steal it! Just do away with the whole copyright system, for that matter.

Bootleggers suck - and they will say anything and twist all truths to try to legitmize their rights to steal other peoples' property.

Norm de Plume

As a strictly law-abiding person, I'm not necessarily a strong defender of this ethically dubious behaviour, and I would never personally make copies of films to sell, simply because I don't feel right about it. HOWEVER, as a dedicated film enthusiast, if I'm desperately looking for a copy of Film X, and the rights holder hasn't bothered to make it available to buy legitimately, I don't have a problem buying it from one of these purveyors. I have bought literally hundreds of extremely scarce films from these gray-market companies, and I'm glad they're there to make them available. Besides, I really doubt they are making a fortune off films maybe two people in the entire world even know exist. For many of these places, it's more a love of film that drives them, something a DVDTalk member should understand.

islandclaws

In before the lock!

Short answer: don't do it. If you DO do it, do it only for yourself.

moklerman

Norm, I have in the neighborhood of 3,000 movies and I feel the same way you do. I hate bootleggers but I have on occasion bought bootlegs(the Spirit with Sam J. Jones leaps to mind). If we're talking about Star Wars or Gone With the Wind the line is very clear. Oddball items that just aren't available any other way make the choice a lot tougher. I always feel wrong for buying a bootleg in those situations but I feel justified since I was perfectly willing to buy the studio version if they had only made one.

But, my reason for directing this toward you is that with all of the movies I've collected over the years when I come to places like this forum I'm reminded how little I truly know about stuff compared to some of the real connoisseurs. Since you mentioned really hard to find stuff, just for my own curiosity I'd like an example or two of what you're talking about and maybe why you looked for them.

Thanks.

Gizmo

I never see cops or the FBI arresting people at Comic-con who are clearly selling bootleg DVDs.

Norm de Plume

That's exactly how I feel about it.
Sure thing. The following are just a few of the ones I had been seeking for years and just recently found:
Letter from a Dead Man - A great Russian post-apocalyptic drama I had been wanting to see for more than 15 years.
The Haunting of M - One of Ebert's favourite films of '79; turns out it's a stodgy bore.
Till Death - Ultra-rare horror from the '70s. Maltin gave it *** (it's no longer listed), but the movie is garbage.
Broken Mirrors - Feminist thriller from Dutch director Marleen Gorris, highly praised by Time Out. Not bad.
I Start Counting - A highly-sought-after British suspense flick starring Jenny Agutter. I haven't viewed this yet.
Ice - A subversive fauxumentary about some anti-establishment radicals, directed by Robert Kramer. Interesting but uncoordinated.
Sudden Fury - An excellent, unpretentious little Canadian thriller from '75. Had seen it before, but wanted to re-watch.

A number of the bootlegs I have collected over the years have seen official DVD releases in the interim, and if it so happens that I liked a film, I bought the legit DVD.

man*machine

And if you didn't like the film, the legit seller who may eventually put it out obviously loses a sale. Multiply that by how many other people buying boots are doing the same thing. It's no wonder "stodgy bore" movies like HAUNTING OF M never get a legit release.

NoirFan

This is the kind of stuff I love - late 60s underground curios like Rebirth of a Nation.