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View Full Version : The Ultimate Sarah Palin Thread pt II


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Bandoman
09-11-08, 07:34 PM
It's on tonight on Nightline.

Groucho
09-11-08, 07:42 PM
My damning JasonF to hell had nothing to do with the Palin interview. That was just an aside.

Dr Mabuse
09-11-08, 07:57 PM
:lol:

CRM114
09-11-08, 08:50 PM
Did anyone see Charlie Gibson's interview with Palin on ABC News tonight? She had no idea what the Bush Doctrine was. No clue. He had to explain it to her.

Matt Damon IS RIGHT!! -eek- I need to build a bomb shelter ASAP.

dan30oly
09-11-08, 08:58 PM
I watch the news and listen to talk radio all the time and have no idea what this "bush doctrine" is you speak of.

crazyronin
09-11-08, 09:04 PM
I am not sure if this had been posted. I am not quite sure what creation had to do with launch codes.

Actor Matt Damon has lashed out at U.S. Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin - insisting she's been chosen for "political purposes".

Damon fears Palin's running-mate John McCain won't survive a full four-year-term as president at age 72, and claims the Alaskan governor taking over would be disastrous.

He says, "I think there's a really good chance Sarah Palin could become president, and I think that's a really scary thing. It's like a really bad Disney movie, the hockey mom, you know, 'Oh, I'm just a hockey mom from Alaska'... and she's facing down (former Russian) President (Vladimir) Putin... It's totally absurd... It's a really terrifying possibility."

And Damon takes issue with Palin's take on the creation: "I need to know if she thinks dinosaurs were here (on earth) 4,000 years ago, I really do - because she's gonna have the nuclear codes."

Too bad he didn't listen to his own advice...

"For a lot of actors, our biggest fear is that we're going to start talking about things we don't fully understand and sound like idiots," he said. "In the long run, I'll do much more good if, when I open my mouth, I have something worth saying."

link (http://www.concierge.com/cntraveler/articles/12880?pageNumber=1&page=0)

CRM114
09-11-08, 09:05 PM
Forcibly seeding democracy to achieve peace in the middle east. That is what I'd call the "Bush Doctrine." I could be wrong.

JasonF
09-11-08, 09:32 PM
I thought the Palin interview was tomorrow on 20/20. Damn you JasonF.
They showed excerpts earlier and will be showing more excerpts on Nightline, but my understanding is that tomorrow's 20/20 is the "full" interview (full in quotes because I'm not sure if 20/20 is airing Gibson's entire conversation with Governor Palin, or some edited-down portion).
Damn you to HELL!
Fair enough.

JasonF
09-11-08, 09:33 PM
I don't see why Matt Damon should be any less (or more) entitled than crazyronin or me or bhk or CRM114 to spout off on politics. Damon is actually a pretty intelligent guy, and that clip shows that he's got a better grasp on the issues than a lot of people, including some people who post here.

So: :shrug:

crazyronin
09-11-08, 09:44 PM
I don't see why Matt Damon should be any less (or more) entitled than crazyronin or me or bhk or CRM114 to spout off on politics. Damon is actually a pretty intelligent guy, and that clip shows that he's got a better grasp on the issues than a lot of people, including some people who post here.

So: :shrug:

Even if Mrs Palin was a Young Earth creationist follower of James Ussher, Anglican Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of All Ireland, she would believe the Earth was 6011 years old (6012 in 10 days. Happy Birthday Earth.)

He should stick to well improvement in Africa, instead of interjecting himself into politics, where he looks like a Masshole douchenozzle.

Brent L
09-11-08, 09:48 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again...I say let them keep these knocks against her coming. I Just saw this also:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G3vEfvpHDd8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G3vEfvpHDd8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

The more these Hollywood/elitist types do this, the more Americans will rally behind her, and that will only lead to more votes for the McCain/Palin ticket. I love, just love, how much Palin gets to these types of people.

matta
09-11-08, 09:49 PM
Forcibly seeding democracy to achieve peace in the middle east. That is what I'd call the "Bush Doctrine." I could be wrong.

Well, since it's political slang, you can make it mean whatever you want. Maybe I should ask Obama on his thoughts of the Clinton Doctrine.

taa455
09-11-08, 10:35 PM
Matt Damon: I NEED to know if she thinks dinosaurs lived 4,000 years ago.

Heh, I was not aware someone's opinion on dinosaurs disqualifies them to be VP.

Seemed an odd thing for Matt Damon to say. Did that dinosaur comment just come out of nowhere or does that burning question have some relevance?

Baron Of Hell
09-11-08, 10:47 PM
Matt Damon: I NEED to know if she thinks dinosaurs lived 4,000 years ago.

Heh, I was not aware someone's opinion on dinosaurs disqualifies them to be VP.

Seemed an odd thing for Matt Damon to say. Did that dinosaur comment just come out of nowhere or does that burning question have some relevance?
some believe the eath is 10000 years old according to the bible. So somewhere around year 4000 the dinos walked the earth. I think it was actually 2000. Anyway some people think a few references in the bible are talking about dinosaurs. I'm guessing matt think that people that believe this are insane or maybe he thinks they are right on but which every way you go it could tell you instantly if you are not going to vote for a person.

Duran
09-11-08, 11:03 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again...I say let them keep these knocks against her coming.
The more these Hollywood/elitist types do this, the more Americans will rally behind her, and that will only lead to more votes for the McCain/Palin ticket. I love, just love, how much Palin gets to these types of people.

No one pays attention to those knuckleheads, but if believing it will cause some sort of backlash vote for McCain/Palin makes you happy, more power to you. I mean, come on, do you really think people are going to vote the Rep ticket to spite Pam Anderson? Please.

gmanca
09-11-08, 11:06 PM
Carl Everett, the baseball player, believed that the dinosaur bones are fake... just throwing that out there.

vhgong
09-11-08, 11:53 PM
Christians in the past believe that the earth was flat.

Nausicaa
09-12-08, 01:12 AM
I saw some of the excerpts. Every time she says Charlie, it really turns me on. And she says Charlie a lot.

Honestly, she seems a little nervous (understandably). If these excerpts are any indication, Gibson isn't afraid to ask tougher questions. Yet, the way he framed the first excerpt made it seem like tomorrow's main interview will only be about domestic issues and her record in Alaska. I hope the don't avoid foreign policy altogether.

I was impressed with Gibson's neutral tone. He asked tough questions, but in a fair way that didn't betray judgement, nor did he attempt to put her at ease.

DVD Polizei
09-12-08, 01:15 AM
I watch the news and listen to talk radio all the time and have no idea what this "bush doctrine" is you speak of.

I'll give you a pass since you aren't running for Vice President of The United States, representing the Republican Party.

DVD Polizei
09-12-08, 01:22 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again...I say let them keep these knocks against her coming. I Just saw this also:

The more these Hollywood/elitist types do this, the more Americans will rally behind her, and that will only lead to more votes for the McCain/Palin ticket. I love, just love, how much Palin gets to these types of people.

You mean the more Religious Republican Americans....will rally behind her.

dan30oly
09-12-08, 01:53 AM
I'll give you a pass since you aren't running for Vice President of The United States, representing the Republican Party.

How about you just explain what this so-called "Bush Doctrine" supposedly is.

JasonF
09-12-08, 02:04 AM
How about you just explain what this so-called "Bush Doctrine" supposedly is.

It's explained ad nauseum in the thread dedicated specifically to the interview.

HistoryProf
09-12-08, 02:36 AM
this is all you need to read to put this fucking lipstick on a pig shit out of it's misery. such contrived "outrage" is sickening...and insufferably hypocritical...

In addition, while discussing health care at a May 2 town hall meeting in Denver, McCain again used the expression. He said: "All I can say is that, yes, in 1993, we rejected the then-Clinton universal health care proposal. It was rejected by the American people. I don't like to use this term, but the latest proposal I see is putting lipstick on a pig, as we used to -- as we used to say."

Also, CNN.com reported in a February 2, 2007, article, that McCain used the phrase while discussing the debate over President Bush's strategy in Iraq:

Another Bush supporter, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, said the Warner resolution would be a vote of no confidence in Gen. David Petraeus, the incoming commander of U.S. and allied troops in Iraq. And McCain, who has blasted the Bush administration's handling of the war, said his proposal is a sign the United States is willing to go "all in" in the now-unpopular conflict.

"It gets down to whether you support what is being done in this new strategy or you don't," McCain said. "You can put lipstick on a pig, [but] it's still a pig, in my view."

According to a September 14, 2007, Washington Post column by Eugene Robinson, Obama used the expression in a phone interview the previous day:

"I think that both General [David] Petraeus and Ambassador [Ryan] Crocker are capable people who have been given an impossible assignment," Sen. Barack Obama said yesterday in a telephone interview. "George Bush has given a mission to General Petraeus, and he has done his best to try to figure out how to put lipstick on a pig."

In addition to McCain, Obama, and Edwards, other political and media figures have made similar "lipstick" comments:

* Former Texas Gov. Ann Richards (D), reportedly referring to ineffective government programs: "You can put lipstick and earrings on a hog and call it Monique, but it's still a pig.''

* Former Rep. Bob Schaffer (R-CO): " 'What they want is not change; it's just putting lipstick on a pig,' Schaffer told an estimated crowd of 4,500 people at the Broomfield Event Center." [Denver Post; 5/31/08]

* Then-Republican presidential candidate Fred Thompson: "He also took a swipe at Democrats when he was asked his plan for health care. 'You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig,' Thompson said. 'These health care plans that they're pushing, they're pigs.' " [AP; 1/15/08]

* House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH): " 'Right now our fundraising sucks. ... There's no other way to put it. ... There's no use putting lipstick on a pig.' " [National Journal's CongressDaily; 4/3/08]

* Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA): "Barack Obama blames lobbyists. Hunger and environmental groups blame Democratic leaders. Sen. Chuck Grassley calls it 'smearing lipstick on a pig.' The federal farm bill passed by the Senate was a turkey delivered for the holidays. It won't get much better when it is recooked in conference committee when Congress reconvenes." [The Tribune of Ames, Iowa; 12/27/07]

* Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX), on Democrats' changes to a State Children's Health Insurance Program bill: "Rep. Joe Barton of Texas last week compared the changes to 'putting lipstick on a pig. It may ... be a good pig. It may be a nice pig. It might be intended to be the right kind of pig ... ut it's still a pig.' " [CNN.com; 11/2/07]

* [B]American Conservative Union chairman David Keene, on a 2007 Senate immigration bill: " 'I don't doubt [Sen.] Jon [Kyl, (R-AZ)] has improved the bill, but you can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.' " [Washington Times; 6/27/07]

* Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO), on a 2007 Senate immigration bill: "Well, of course, most of what you have described is just -- you know, there's an old saying around here about putting lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. This is the lipstick for it." [CNN's Paula Zahn Now; 5/17/07]

* Syndicated political talk-show host John McLaughlin, on President Bush's appointment of Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson: "Is this the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig?" [The McLaughlin Group; 6/02/06]

* Conservative blogger Bill Crawford: "I never meant to give a comprehensive account of how things are going in Iraq. I'm not, as my grandmother used to say, 'trying to put lipstick on a pig.' " [National Review Online; 3/20/06]

* Rep. Mark Steven Kirk (R-IL), on 2007 appropriations for Navy and Marines Corps budget: "I think from my inside look, a lot of the problems have been overcome because there is a parallel Navy running, and it is outside the NMCI. I think everybody's laughing behind you. They all know that, and so the question is, how do we adapt and work with that rather than try to put lipstick on a pig?" [House Subcommittee on Military Quality of Life, Veterans Affairs and Related Agencies appropriations meeting; 3/08/06]

* Former McCain aide Torie Clarke, on the title of her 2006 book, Lipstick on a Pig: Winning In the No-Spin Era by Someone Who Knows the Game (Free Press): "Oh, it's a saying. It's a saying I've always used." [PBS' Charlie Rose; 2/24/06]

* Vice President Dick Cheney on Sen. John Kerry's (D-MA) military plan: "As we like to say in Wyoming ... you can put all the lipstick you want on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig." [speech at Hawaii Convention Center; 11/01/04; and speech at Hallowed Hills Conference Center in Ohio; 10/30/04 -- also noted by The Dallas Morning News' Trail Blazers blog]

* Lynne Cheney on Kerry: "John Kerry tries to put a bunch of fancy, fancy talk -- tried to disguise that record, sort of like his fancy haircut, fancy manicure, tried to disguise the whole thing. ... But there is nothing you can do to really -- to really obscure that record. You can try, though. And in Wyoming, we've got a saying for what it is when you keep trying to make something that's not so good look good, we call it putting lipstick on a pig. ... Yes. ... And it doesn't work." [remarks at Embassy Suites Hotels in Coraopolis, Pennsylvania; 10/13/04]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200809100035?f=h_top




It's a colloquial saying ALL politicians use ALL THE FUCKING TIME. spare me the righteous indignation.

Bronkster
09-12-08, 02:50 AM
this is all you need to read to put this fucking lipstick on a pig shit out of it's misery. such contrived "outrage" is sickening...and insufferably hypocritical...





It's a colloquial saying ALL politicians use ALL THE FUCKING TIME. spare me the righteous indignation.

It doesn't matter how many times it was said before or who said it, there's no doubt Obama was talking about Palin.






I'm sorry :lol:

bhk
09-12-08, 03:25 AM
Yeah just to make sure that everyone knows it is much ado about nothing, and say something like this: "Obama says he's going to cut your taxes but he's really going to raise them. My friends, it's time for some straight talk about taxes, it's time to call a spade a spade."

That would be fun to see all these outraged leftists defend McCain for using a shopworn phrase.

vhgong
09-12-08, 08:09 AM
Yeah just to make sure that everyone knows it is much ado about nothing, and say something like this: "Obama says he's going to cut your taxes but he's really going to raise them. My friends, it's time for some straight talk about taxes, it's time to call a spade a spade."

That would be fun to see all these outraged leftists defend McCain for using a shopworn phrase.

Who's defending McCain?

creekdipper
09-12-08, 08:13 AM
Sarah Palin scares the poop out of freakin' JASON BOURNE!!!!!

To me, that's pretty impressive credentials for facing down Vladimir Putin.

CRM114
09-12-08, 08:59 AM
How about you just explain what this so-called "Bush Doctrine" supposedly is.

This sudden amnesia of the last 8 years is pretty incredible. Were all of you sleeping when you voted for Bush twice?

crazyronin
09-12-08, 09:23 AM
this is all you need to read to put this fucking lipstick on a pig shit out of it's misery. such contrived "outrage" is sickening...and insufferably hypocritical...

It's a colloquial saying ALL politicians use ALL THE FUCKING TIME. spare me the righteous indignation.

"Wrestling with a tar baby" is another colloquial expression. I don't think you'd be happy with its use, although every time Obama tries to explain the lipstick away he sinks a little bit deeper into it.

"Never complain, Never explain." - Henry Ford II

Chrisedge
09-12-08, 10:15 AM
Carl Everett, the baseball player, believed that the dinosaur bones are fake... just throwing that out there.

Add that guy to the list of people that shouldn't hold public office...

The Bus
09-12-08, 10:37 AM
I don't see why Matt Damon should be any less (or more) entitled than crazyronin or me or bhk or CRM114 to spout off on politics. Damon is actually a pretty intelligent guy, and that clip shows that he's got a better grasp on the issues than a lot of people, including some people who post here.

So: :shrug:

He's at least somewhat aware of who Howard Zinn is. I believe they may even know each other, but I may be mistaken.

dan30oly
09-12-08, 11:24 AM
This sudden amnesia of the last 8 years is pretty incredible. Were all of you sleeping when you voted for Bush twice?
I voted for Gore in 2000, Bush in 2004, and had zero interest in voting this year until Palin was selected as VP. Thankfully we finally have someone with managerial experience to represent us in the White House.

bhk
09-12-08, 11:25 AM
Who's defending McCain?

They would have to if they were being consistant because they are so vehemently defending Obama's use of a colloquial(?sp) phrase.

HistoryProf
09-12-08, 11:34 AM
"Wrestling with a tar baby" is another colloquial expression. I don't think you'd be happy with its use, although every time Obama tries to explain the lipstick away he sinks a little bit deeper into it.

"Never complain, Never explain." - Henry Ford II

you people are fucking insane. seriously. the lengths to which you will go to make this an issue is disgusting. show me clips of Cheney, Biden, Edwards, Clinton, Bush, Fred Thompson, and 14 other senators using that phrase and you might have a valid comparison. As it is, you are simply adding race where it doesn't belong to distract from the lunacy that is currently going on as a result of the McCain campaign's hallow and blatantly disingenuous false "outrage".

This is why this country is in trouble. people would rather debate about what a guy was thinking when he said lipstick rather than engage in any meaningful debate on ANYTHING that actually matters. it's pathetic. Anyone who buys into this bullshit should be ashamed of themselves.

Venusian
09-12-08, 11:37 AM
This is why this country is in trouble. people would rather debate about what a guy was thinking when he said lipstick rather than engage in any meaningful debate on ANYTHING that actually matters. it's pathetic. Anyone who buys into this bullshit should be ashamed of themselves.

or maybe because instead of having a meaningful debate, they'd rather say "you people are fucking insane."

Pharoh
09-12-08, 11:38 AM
He's at least somewhat aware of who Howard Zinn is. I believe they may even know each other, but I may be mistaken.

That is a good thing?

HistoryProf
09-12-08, 11:39 AM
It doesn't matter how many times it was said before or who said it, there's no doubt Obama was talking about Palin.






I'm sorry :lol:

no doubt? really? none? bullshit. only if you want him to have been speaking about palin because it helps your side.

that's what i'm talking about...no one cares about anything that matters. just that their side wins. and they will swallow any lies, half-truths, and bullshit controversy that comes along as long as they think it will help that happen. i'm so fucking sick of this shit.

wendersfan
09-12-08, 11:40 AM
That is a good thing?Probably not in terms of Damon's mental health, but it might at least give him greater understanding of Zinn's views and arguments.

HistoryProf
09-12-08, 11:40 AM
or maybe because instead of having a meaningful debate, they'd rather say "you people are fucking insane."
yes...it's fucking insanity that this is on top of the news when we are almost 50 days away from choosing our next president and the country is bordering on being in utter shambles. there are A LOT of very real problems facing us...but as long as we keep some fucking bullshit lipstick comment on page 1, none of it matters. it's insanity. and it will be our downfall.

this isn't a defense of Obama, btw...it's the simple fact that i'm sick and fucking tired of this shit. I don't care who you vote for, i'm glad people have different beliefs than me - the world would be a very boring place otherwise...and true growth and enlightenment only comes with a healthy exchange of ideas and ongoing debate. The problem is we haven't seen anything close to that in 20 years. and it's only getting worse. I would give ANYTHING for civil, intelligent, forward thinking conservative commentators on the news engaging with liberal thinkers who can provide we the public with alternatives to solving our problems. instead, all we get is this kind of tripe...and 95% of America laps it up - on BOTH sides.

spainlinx0
09-12-08, 11:50 AM
I think we are all overlooking the fact that she does indeed have "piggish" features.

Tracer Bullet
09-12-08, 11:52 AM
or maybe because instead of having a meaningful debate, they'd rather say "you people are fucking insane."

You can't have a meaningful debate with people that refuse to have a meaningful debate. :shrug:

Pharoh
09-12-08, 11:53 AM
Probably not in terms of Damon's mental health, but it might at least give him greater understanding of Zinn's views and arguments.

Fair enough. I guess my disdain for Mr. Zinn colors my thinking.

Tracer Bullet
09-12-08, 11:54 AM
yes...it's fucking insanity that this is on top of the news when we are almost 50 days away from choosing our next president and the country is bordering on being in utter shambles. there are A LOT of very real problems facing us...but as long as we keep some fucking bullshit lipstick comment on page 1, none of it matters. it's insanity. and it will be our downfall.

this isn't a defense of Obama, btw...it's the simple fact that i'm sick and fucking tired of this shit. I don't care who you vote for, i'm glad people have different beliefs than me - the world would be a very boring place otherwise...and true growth and enlightenment only comes with a healthy exchange of ideas and ongoing debate. The problem is we haven't seen anything close to that in 20 years. and it's only getting worse. I would give ANYTHING for civil, intelligent, forward thinking conservative commentators on the news engaging with liberal thinkers who can provide we the public with alternatives to solving our problems. instead, all we get is this kind of tripe...and 95% of America laps it up - on BOTH sides.

Andrew Sullivan has actually been doing a great job. And he has been highlighting other conservatives who are. I would also recommend David Brooks.

bhk
09-12-08, 11:54 AM
Here is a cartoon in the STL Post dispatch a few days before Obama's pig comment:
http://newsbusters.org/static/2008/09/palinpig.jpg

Dimension X
09-12-08, 11:54 AM
Matt Damon: I NEED to know if she thinks dinosaurs lived 4,000 years ago.

Heh, I was not aware someone's opinion on dinosaurs disqualifies them to be VP.

Seemed an odd thing for Matt Damon to say. Did that dinosaur comment just come out of nowhere or does that burning question have some relevance?
My guess; he read it in an email (http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/newsquotes.asp).

CNN covering the same subject:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oaZn1_ZrDPI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oaZn1_ZrDPI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Pharoh
09-12-08, 11:56 AM
no doubt? really? none? bullshit. only if you want him to have been speaking about palin because it helps your side.

that's what i'm talking about...no one cares about anything that matters. just that their side wins. and they will swallow any lies, half-truths, and bullshit controversy that comes along as long as they think it will help that happen. i'm so fucking sick of this shit.

But doesn't that start and end with the candidates? And I mean all the candidates we have had over the lat twenty plus years, aided and abetted by a media who think they are an equal player?

Tracer Bullet
09-12-08, 11:58 AM
Here is a cartoon in the STL Post dispatch a few days before Obama's pig comment:
http://newsbusters.org/static/2008/09/palinpig.jpg

Here is a puppy:

http://www.flickrpuppies.com/files/imagecache/puppy-large/files/858533852_8f0f9a6055_o.jpg

Nausicaa
09-12-08, 12:10 PM
As it is, you are simply adding race where it doesn't belong to distract from the lunacy that is currently going on as a result of the McCain campaign's hallow and blatantly disingenuous false "outrage".

Seriously. Even if we assume Obama meant to imply Palin is a pig, that is not even remotely similar to suggesting Obama is a 'tar baby' -ohbfrank-. Especially when Obama's use of Lipstick on a Pig made perfect metaphorical sense in the context of his overall point. And if it doubled as a play on Palin's joke, who cares? Her little diddy at the convention compared hockey moms such as herself to pitbulls. I don't see how that is any better or worse than a pig. Is there some taxonomy of animal offensiveness to help us draw a line?

Really, really insane. I can't wait for the torrent of twisted explanations being drawn from Palin's trite and incoherent policy explanations during the Gibson interview, futilely attempting to craft sense where none exists.

bhk
09-12-08, 12:19 PM
Another great thing about the SS Obama going down: all the hatred and anger from the left who can't believe the Messiah is not winning in a cakewalk.

al_bundy
09-12-08, 12:20 PM
yes...it's fucking insanity that this is on top of the news when we are almost 50 days away from choosing our next president and the country is bordering on being in utter shambles. there are A LOT of very real problems facing us...but as long as we keep some fucking bullshit lipstick comment on page 1, none of it matters. it's insanity. and it will be our downfall.

this isn't a defense of Obama, btw...it's the simple fact that i'm sick and fucking tired of this shit. I don't care who you vote for, i'm glad people have different beliefs than me - the world would be a very boring place otherwise...and true growth and enlightenment only comes with a healthy exchange of ideas and ongoing debate. The problem is we haven't seen anything close to that in 20 years. and it's only getting worse. I would give ANYTHING for civil, intelligent, forward thinking conservative commentators on the news engaging with liberal thinkers who can provide we the public with alternatives to solving our problems. instead, all we get is this kind of tripe...and 95% of America laps it up - on BOTH sides.

democrats started it when they tried to say bush was dumb back in 2000 and make it a campaign issue. i guess nothing's changed since then.

Dr Mabuse
09-12-08, 12:30 PM
you people are fucking insane. seriously.

or maybe because instead of having a meaningful debate, they'd rather say "you people are fucking insane."

yes...it's fucking insanity that this is on top of the news when we are almost 50 days away from choosing our next president and the country is bordering on being in utter shambles. there are A LOT of very real problems facing us...but as long as we keep some fucking bullshit lipstick comment on page 1, none of it matters. it's insanity. and it will be our downfall.

this isn't a defense of Obama, btw...it's the simple fact that i'm sick and fucking tired of this shit. I don't care who you vote for, i'm glad people have different beliefs than me - the world would be a very boring place otherwise...and true growth and enlightenment only comes with a healthy exchange of ideas and ongoing debate. The problem is we haven't seen anything close to that in 20 years. and it's only getting worse. I would give ANYTHING for civil, intelligent, forward thinking conservative commentators on the news engaging with liberal thinkers who can provide we the public with alternatives to solving our problems. instead, all we get is this kind of tripe...and 95% of America laps it up - on BOTH sides.

:lol:

I actually heard the 'swoosh' sound as it zoomed over the top of the hair and off into the distance.

Brack
09-12-08, 01:00 PM
Another great thing about the SS Obama going down: all the hatred and anger from the left who can't believe the Messiah is not winning in a cakewalk.

After 8 years of nonsense, trust me, we believe it all too well.

How many times are you going to say Messiah? Seriously, you're a drinking game waiting to happen.

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 01:19 PM
How many times are you going to say Messiah? Seriously, you're a drinking game waiting to happen.

Or a drinking game well under way.

Chew
09-12-08, 01:20 PM
Here is a puppy:

Can I just vote for the puppy? :)

Bronkster
09-12-08, 02:03 PM
no doubt? really? none? bullshit. only if you want him to have been speaking about palin because it helps your side.

that's what i'm talking about...no one cares about anything that matters. just that their side wins. and they will swallow any lies, half-truths, and bullshit controversy that comes along as long as they think it will help that happen. i'm so fucking sick of this shit.

:lol: I'm either lousy at sarcasm ( :sad: ) or you're being too defensive. I was trying to (sarcastically) show that no matter how many examples are given, some people will maintain they "know" what someone was thinking. I basically made the same comment as you did about 83 pages back when someone else had posted similar examples.

Like I said back then - IF Obama had never used the "lipstick on a pig" line before, I'd agree he was probably taking a dig at Palin. In the same sense, if McCain has always used "calling a spade a spade" expression before, then it would be a non-issue now.

wendersfan
09-12-08, 02:10 PM
Can I just vote for the puppy? :)I have it on good authority that the puppy is less than 35 years old and probably isn't a natural born citizen. So, no, you can't vote for the puppy.

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 02:16 PM
I have it on good authority that the puppy is less than 35 years old and probably isn't a natural born citizen. So, no, you can't vote for the puppy.

I realize the puppy cannot be elected, but are there really laws in place stating that we cannot vote for him/her?

Further, do the laws state specifically that years are measured in human years and not species-appropriate years such as dog years?

Because I think the puppy was born on a military base and may qualify as a citizen.

Tracer Bullet
09-12-08, 02:18 PM
Fuck it, write the puppy in.

Bandoman
09-12-08, 02:20 PM
No way. That puppy doesn't know what the Bush Doctrine is.

Bronkster
09-12-08, 02:27 PM
No way. That puppy doesn't know what the Bush Doctrine is.
The puppy would just piss on the Bush Doctrine. Hey, maybe it does know what the Bush Doctrine is!!

wendersfan
09-12-08, 02:27 PM
I realize the puppy cannot be elected, but are there really laws in place stating that we cannot vote for him/her?

Further, do the laws state specifically that years are measured in human years and not species-appropriate years such as dog years?

Because I think the puppy was born on a military base and may qualify as a citizen.While I know we're being facetious, this poses an interesting constitutional question to which I don't know the answer. Can someone who is ineligible to hold the office be placed on the ballot anyway? It appears that the answer is "yes", since Winona LaDuke was the Green Party nominee for vice-president in 2000, and was at the time 31 years old, and therefore ineligible to serve (the qualifications for president and vice-president are exactly the same). Can anyone confirm this?

matta
09-12-08, 02:31 PM
How many times are you going to say Messiah? Seriously, you're a drinking game waiting to happen.

In all fairness, it was the democrats who made the comparison "he was a community organizer, like Jesus" that started this whole thing.

Ranger
09-12-08, 02:32 PM
thi
It's a colloquial saying ALL politicians use ALL THE FUCKING TIME. spare me the righteous indignation.
Not just politicians.

I remember CRM using the phrase here a few years when Windows users were discussing how to make Windows look more Mac-ish. It still makes me laugh.

I wonder what he thinks about the Seinfeld-Gates ads.

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 02:40 PM
While I know we're being facetious, this poses an interesting constitutional question to which I don't know the answer.

Perhaps you can tell me how a marriage amendment defining marriage as "between a man and a woman" would handle those who have had gender reassignment surgery and men who throw like girls?

Venusian
09-12-08, 02:40 PM
While I know we're being facetious, this poses an interesting constitutional question to which I don't know the answer. Can someone who is ineligible to hold the office be placed on the ballot anyway? It appears that the answer is "yes", since Winona LaDuke was the Green Party nominee for vice-president in 2000, and was at the time 31 years old, and therefore ineligible to serve (the qualifications for president and vice-president are exactly the same). Can anyone confirm this?

wouldn't it depend on the laws in each individual state?

doesnt amendment 12 say that if the president elect is not qualified the vp elect gets it or somethign?

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 02:43 PM
Twelfth Amendment:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate.

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. For qualification of president, dog years are an acceptable measure of time for canine candidates. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. [1]

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States

Venusian
09-12-08, 02:44 PM
this is the part i was thinking of:

then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

wendersfan
09-12-08, 02:44 PM
wouldn't it depend on the laws in each individual state?

doesnt amendment 12 say that if the president elect is not qualified the vp elect gets it or somethign?"And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President."

But that was replaced by

"If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified."

(Section 3 of the 20th amendment).

Venusian
09-12-08, 02:45 PM
ah, i knew it sounded different when i read it the other day, i was thinking of this:

if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified

Chew
09-12-08, 02:47 PM
Twelfth Amendment:

Ok, the canine line coming out of nowhere cracked me up. rotfl

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 02:47 PM
Why is the constitution still in a format like Word with "show changes" turned on? Can't someone just re-write it properly with the Amendments worked into the text so we know our rights and stuff? An NIV version would be nice too, to cut through the bull.

JasonF
09-12-08, 03:01 PM
While I know we're being facetious, this poses an interesting constitutional question to which I don't know the answer. Can someone who is ineligible to hold the office be placed on the ballot anyway? It appears that the answer is "yes", since Winona LaDuke was the Green Party nominee for vice-president in 2000, and was at the time 31 years old, and therefore ineligible to serve (the qualifications for president and vice-president are exactly the same). Can anyone confirm this?

You're off by a decade. Winona LaDuke was born in 1959, which means she was 41 in 2000 (she also ran in 1996 when she was 37).

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 03:08 PM
I just realized that 2012 will be the first election that I am eligible to be president of the United States of America! :banana:

Venusian
09-12-08, 03:10 PM
the agist constitution won't let me run until 2016...yall will have to wait till then

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 03:12 PM
I'll consider you for my 2nd term ticket. Depending on Palin's plans, of course. I know you understand.

Venusian
09-12-08, 03:15 PM
I don't have boobs :(

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 03:19 PM
We have 8 years to take care of that. Here is a remote control and some pizza.

JasonF
09-12-08, 03:22 PM
oIeBkozkMaA

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 03:29 PM
Those talkingpointsmemo guys are all boners.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jYrBLLQzyO0&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jYrBLLQzyO0&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

matta
09-12-08, 03:33 PM
the agist constitution won't let me run until 2016...yall will have to wait till then

I'm going to make you my write-in vote.

"The guy from DVDTalk.com who goes by the screen name 'Venusian'"

Maybe if we get enough people to vote for you, you'll end up on the official count for Georgia.

Venusian
09-12-08, 03:34 PM
I'm going to make you my write-in vote.

"The guy from DVDTalk.com who goes by the screen name 'Venusian'"

Maybe if we get enough people to vote for you, you'll end up on the official count for Georgia.

the GA SoS doesn't report writein individually on their website. I apparently had a lot of coworkers write me in for some local office a few years ago, but it just showed up as "Other"

sracer
09-12-08, 03:37 PM
Those talkingpointsmemo guys are all boners.

Is their claim that Palin requested and/or received earmarks as governor incorrect?

Brack
09-12-08, 03:45 PM
In all fairness, it was the democrats who made the comparison "he was a community organizer, like Jesus" that started this whole thing.

yeah, but he wasn't saying he was like Jesus, just that they both community organized, making a point rather than a comparison.

but I guess if you look hard enough, you can find whatever you're looking for.

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 03:48 PM
Is their claim that Palin requested and/or received earmarks as governor incorrect?

"Incorrect?" How should I know.

"Sexist?" Absolutely.

sracer
09-12-08, 03:53 PM
"Incorrect?" How should I know.

"Sexist?" Absolutely.
There must be something that I'm missing, because I saw nothing in that video clip that was sexist.

wendersfan
09-12-08, 03:54 PM
There must be something that I'm missing, because I saw nothing in that video clip that was sexist.Any criticism of Governor Palin is by definition, sexist. Get with the program.

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 03:58 PM
Any criticism of Governor Palin is by definition, sexist. Get with the program.

I'm glad someone is paying attention. :up:

HistoryProf
09-12-08, 04:19 PM
But doesn't that start and end with the candidates? And I mean all the candidates we have had over the lat twenty plus years, aided and abetted by a media who think they are an equal player?oh god no...the media is the worst part of it all. this so called liberal media that spent 5 minutes on the lipstick bullshit two nights ago on the nightly news (i think i was watching CBS - you know, that liberal arm of the media) and then at the VERY end after minutes of questioning Obama and doing everything they could to make it an issue, they say - oh, btw, here's some clips of Cheney, Bush, Thompson, McCain, and others saying it to so it was probably nothing.

horseshit. total horseshit. they should be ashamed of themselves too.

HistoryProf
09-12-08, 04:24 PM
"Incorrect?" How should I know.

"Sexist?" Absolutely.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a12/taylor_158/lolwut.jpg

Tracer Bullet
09-12-08, 04:28 PM
David Frum:

There's a photograph circulating on conservative blogs that shows Palin lounging on a motorcycle, paired with another of Obama in a helmet on a bicycle. It's headed: "All you need to know." Personally I need to know a little more. That's not even insufficient information. It's anti-information — a denial that information matters.

:lol:

Groucho
09-12-08, 04:32 PM
All You Need to Know (http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2008/09/all-you-need-to-know.html)

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 05:53 PM
I keep hearing a criticism that Palin sold the jet for a loss. Are jets usually resold for a profit?

wewantflair
09-12-08, 06:01 PM
I keep hearing a criticism that Palin sold the jet for a loss. Are jets usually resold for a profit?

The original claim (not sure if it was made by her or not) was that she listed the jet on ebay and "made money." That's how it was phrased in my local paper. Now while it is true that getting even a dollar for a jet that is otherwise idle is making cash, it's a disingenuous claim - hence, the clarification that it didn't, in fact, "make" money.

movielib
09-12-08, 06:17 PM
I keep hearing a criticism that Palin sold the jet for a loss. Are jets usually resold for a profit?
I don't think that's the problem (at least not for me).

I don't know how many times I've heard her say in a triumphant voice, "So I put it on eBay." OK, fine, but it's way short of the real story. It didn't sell on eBay and when they did sell it, it was at a pretty hefty loss from the purchase price. Again, that would not be a problem, assuming jets lose value over time. It's just that she leaves out much of the story and makes it sound a lot better than it is. And the real story loses a lot of its ain't that cute and clever Palinesque wonderfulness.

creekdipper
09-12-08, 06:41 PM
yeah, but he wasn't saying he was like Jesus, just that they both community organized, making a point rather than a comparison.

but I guess if you look hard enough, you can find whatever you're looking for.

"Making a point, rather than a comparison"? First you point out that he compares the two, then says he wasn't making a comparison.

Now, that takes some reeeeaaaaaalllllll nerve to try to get away with. Maybe you think your audience isn't paying attention to what you write.

I guess his comment pointing out that "Pontius Pilate was a governor" was not intended to draw a comparison to Palin, casting her as the villain?

He could have said, "Dick Butkus was a linebacker" if he was just displaying his knowledge of history. But he didn't...because there would have been no correlation to Palin.

However, it is wonderful to see the Democrats self-destructing...as well as demonstrating their ignorance regarding the Bible (simply SHOCKING news, especially from the Hollywood types mimicking the 'damning emails').

Jesus wasn't a "community organizer" in any shape, form, or fashion (unless you count "organizing" twelve disciples as his companions). He explicitly, REPEATEDLY, stated that He was there to point people toward God's kingdom, not an earthly kingdom. He was an itinerant preacher, never staying long in one place once He began His ministry.

Sadly, those who want to co-opt His message of worshipping God (which includes service to others) have perverted His message for their own socialist agenda (remember, it was Christ who said that we would always have the poor, but that it was more important to worship God). The Bible points out that faith without works is dead...but it also points out the same for works without faith. Those who want to recast Jesus in the image of "community organizer" want to portray Him as a "radical" who wanted to work outside of "the system".

Instead, Jesus was a REFORMER who wanted to restore the broken covenant between God & man. He threw the moneylenders OUT of the temple...He didn't try to destroy the practice of worshipping God as it should have taken place in the temple.

Still, it's funny (in a sad sort of way) to see the "separation of church & state" fanatics embracing Christ as their example.

As someone pointed out, Lucifer was the original dissident, not Jesus. Jesus was submissive to God's authority...Lucifer challenged the 'status quo'.

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 06:46 PM
I don't think that's the problem (at least not for me).

I don't know how many times I've heard her say in a triumphant voice, "So I put it on eBay." OK, fine, but it's way short of the real story. It didn't sell on eBay and when they did sell it, it was at a pretty hefty loss from the purchase price. Again, that would not be a problem, assuming jets lose value over time. It's just that she leaves out much of the story and makes it sound a lot better than it is. And the real story loses a lot of its ain't that cute and clever Palinesque wonderfulness.


Putting it on eBay sound bites better. And it's not a lie. :shrug:

It's actually pretty funny that she did in fact list it on eBay. The fact that it didn't sell there means less than the sentiment. And when it didn't sell there, she found a buyer any way.

People are trying to make a liar out of her with this, but it won't work. She didn't have to sell that jet and most congressmen would not have.

Is she "sprucing up the story" by leaving out the details of the sale? Of course! She's a politician! But people really shouldn't take much pride in debating her on the point. It's not the "dirt" that they are hoping it is.

creekdipper
09-12-08, 06:46 PM
I don't think that's the problem (at least not for me).

I don't know how many times I've heard her say in a triumphant voice, "So I put it on eBay." OK, fine, but it's way short of the real story. It didn't sell on eBay and when they did sell it, it was at a pretty hefty loss from the purchase price. Again, that would not be a problem, assuming jets lose value over time. It's just that she leaves out much of the story and makes it sound a lot better than it is. And the real story loses a lot of its ain't that cute and clever Palinesque wonderfulness.


Let's see...Palin says she put the plane on eBay (factual). She omits the fact that it didn't sell there & they had to find another buyer at a price lower than they wanted...something people who have sold homes, cars, etc. have discovered is a common occurrence (sometimes called depreciation).

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, stated that she landed & ran for cover under "sniper fire" (nonfactual).

Palin: Omission of facts = bad person.

Clinton: Fabrication of facts = good person.

Makes perfect sense to me!! Love that "Progressive Logic".

By the way...for Barack Obama to compare himself to Teddy Roosevelt makes me ill.

creekdipper
09-12-08, 06:49 PM
The original claim (not sure if it was made by her or not) was that she listed the jet on ebay and "made money." That's how it was phrased in my local paper. Now while it is true that getting even a dollar for a jet that is otherwise idle is making cash, it's a disingenuous claim - hence, the clarification that it didn't, in fact, "make" money.

Ever have a garage sale?

Did you get the original selling price for your items?

Did you sit around later counting up how much money you "lost" from the sale?

If not, then you were being disingenuous by claiming that you actually "made" money.

Shame on you!

crazyronin
09-12-08, 06:52 PM
I don't think that's the problem (at least not for me).

I don't know how many times I've heard her say in a triumphant voice, "So I put it on eBay." OK, fine, but it's way short of the real story. It didn't sell on eBay and when they did sell it, it was at a pretty hefty loss from the purchase price. Again, that would not be a problem, assuming jets lose value over time. It's just that she leaves out much of the story and makes it sound a lot better than it is. And the real story loses a lot of its ain't that cute and clever Palinesque wonderfulness.

Actually there was one serious bidder on the eBay sale. He dropped out after the state (read bureaucrats) quibbled about the details. It went through a private broker where it sold for the same amount as the eBay bid (indicating that they probably got fair market for a 23 year old jet.)

It also appears that the "hefty loss" it was sold for was roughly made up for by removing its maintenance costs for one year. if you count the ongoing savings of not having those maintenance costs for multiple years, it turns to a plus for the state of Alaska.

"Incontinental Airways" is one the major reasons for Murkowski's defeat in the Republican primary.

creekdipper
09-12-08, 06:52 PM
yeah, but he wasn't saying he was like Jesus, just that they both community organized, making a point rather than a comparison.

but I guess if you look hard enough, you can find whatever you're looking for.

"Making a point, rather than a comparison"? First you point out that he compares the two, then says he wasn't making a comparison.

Now, that takes some reeeeaaaaaalllllll nerve to try to get away with. Maybe you think your audience isn't paying attention to what you write.

I guess his comment pointing out that "Pontius Pilate was a governor" was not intended to draw a comparison to Palin, casting her as the villain?

He could have said, "Dick Butkus was a linebacker" if he was just displaying his knowledge of history. But he didn't...because there would have been no correlation to Palin.

However, it is wonderful to see the Democrats self-destructing...as well as demonstrating their ignorance regarding the Bible (simply SHOCKING news, especially from the Hollywood types mimicking the 'damning emails').

Jesus wasn't a "community organizer" in any shape, form, or fashion (unless you count "organizing" twelve disciples as his companions). He explicitly, REPEATEDLY, stated that He was there to point people toward God's kingdom, not an earthly kingdom. He was an itinerant preacher, never staying long in one place once He began His ministry.

Sadly, those who want to co-opt His message of worshipping God (which includes service to others) have perverted His message for their own socialist agenda (remember, it was Christ who said that we would always have the poor, but that it was more important to worship God). The Bible points out that faith without works is dead...but it also points out the same for works without faith. Those who want to recast Jesus in the image of "community organizer" want to portray Him as a "radical" who wanted to work outside of "the system".

Instead, Jesus was a REFORMER who wanted to restore the broken covenant between God & man. He threw the moneylenders OUT of the temple...He didn't try to destroy the practice of worshipping God as it should have taken place in the temple.

Still, it's funny (in a sad sort of way) to see the "separation of church & state" fanatics embracing Christ as their example.

As someone pointed out, Lucifer was the original dissident, not Jesus. Jesus was submissive to God's authority...Lucifer challenged the 'status quo'.

Mordred
09-12-08, 06:53 PM
Let's see...Palin says she put the plane on eBay (factual). She omits the fact that it didn't sell there & they had to find another buyer at a price lower than they wanted...something people who have sold homes, cars, etc. have discovered is a common occurrence (sometimes called depreciation).

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, stated that she landed & ran for cover under "sniper fire" (nonfactual).

Palin: Omission of facts = bad person.

Clinton: Fabrication of facts = good person.

Makes perfect sense to me!! Love that "Progressive Logic".
You tell 'em creekdipper. Hilary is so going to lose this election if she keeps that lying up!

sracer
09-12-08, 06:58 PM
yeah, but he wasn't saying he was like Jesus, just that they both community organized, making a point rather than a comparison.
Which demonstrates he doesn't really know what is written about Jesus.


"Making a point, rather than a comparison"? First you point out that he compares the two, then says he wasn't making a comparison.

Now, that takes some reeeeaaaaaalllllll nerve to try to get away with. Maybe you think your audience isn't paying attention to what you write.

... [ much snipped ] ....


Still, it's funny (in a sad sort of way) to see the "separation of church & state" fanatics embracing Christ as their example.

As someone pointed out, Lucifer was the original dissident, not Jesus. Jesus was submissive to God's authority...Lucifer challenged the 'status quo'.

Jesus has very little if anything to do with this, let's not drag him into it now. m'kay?

movielib
09-12-08, 07:00 PM
Let's see...Palin says she put the plane on eBay (factual). She omits the fact that it didn't sell there & they had to find another buyer at a price lower than they wanted...something people who have sold homes, cars, etc. have discovered is a common occurrence (sometimes called depreciation).

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, stated that she landed & ran for cover under "sniper fire" (nonfactual).

Palin: Omission of facts = bad person.

Clinton: Fabrication of facts = good person.

Makes perfect sense to me!! Love that "Progressive Logic".

By the way...for Barack Obama to compare himself to Teddy Roosevelt makes me ill.
rotfl As most people here know (and I've been here for eight years and I'm a very consistent libertarian), I'm no progressive (I hate the word and I oppose most of the positions people who call themselves "progressives" take). I don't like Hillary Clinton and I don't like Barack Obama. I've rarely defended anything about either of them. Everything you said about Clinton and Obama is entirely irrelevant to my post. I was commenting only on one comment by Sarah Palin and I have no idea why you would bring in all that other stuff except that apparently you mistook me for a "progressive."

Brack
09-12-08, 07:01 PM
I do find it ironic that you endlessly call Obama a messiah, when it's Sarah Palin, who most people didn't even know who she was just a couple of weeks ago, that is now this great hope for the Republican Party. It's hypocrisy, and you don't even realize it.

Dave7393
09-12-08, 07:02 PM
You tell 'em creekdipper. Hilary is so going to lose this election if she keeps that lying up!

:lol: You beat me to it. Why was that comparison made again? Let's see, other than the fact that they're both women.... :sarcasm:

Ky-Fi
09-12-08, 07:09 PM
"
Still, it's funny (in a sad sort of way) to see the "separation of church & state" fanatics embracing Christ as their example.
.

No, I think you're missing something. They aren't embracing Christ as their example---they couldn't care less if Jesus was a community organizer or Pilate was a governor. It's that they have this view of all Christians as dimwitted, narrow-minded rubes, and if these brilliant leftists can just convince the great unwashed superstitious masses that their candidate is more like the Christians' fairy-tale God, then that will cause the dimwits to switch their vote. Similarly, they don't REALLY see anything wrong with her unmarried daughter being pregnant, but they figure if they point it out, then Palin and her family will be pelted with stones and chased with torches and pitchforks out of the party, because....well...that's what Christians do, isn't it? They're judgemental and HATE all sinners, don't they? Don't they??!! Why aren't those hypocrites HATING!!?!?!? :lol:

DavidLMath
09-12-08, 07:11 PM
The Democratic Governor of Illinois has something to say to some of you:

Democratic Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich defends Sarah Palin:

Blagojevich, who said he spent two summers after high school working on the Alaska pipeline, readily defended the executive experience that governors have in contrast to legislators when it comes to being presidential material.

"I would hope the Democrats wouldn't say that about a governor," Blagojevich, a former state legislator and congressman, told O'Dell of criticism that the first-term Palin lacks experience.

"The reality is, governors every day have to make decisions for better or for worse. That's part of the job. It's an executive position. And it's a position that is like what you’re going to do when you're president. Legislators, they do different things. They debate and they pass their bills back and forth," he said.

"But governors make decisions, and I think it's a tactical mistake for the Democrats to question Gov. Palin's experience when she's been a governor of a state," he said. "I don't think the size of the state is relevant. It's the kinds of decisions you have to make as governor. They (Democrats) should focus on the issues and why the policies of President Bush ought to be changed and I think that's what will help Obama win."

Nausicaa
09-12-08, 07:52 PM
http://www.adn.com/palin/story/524038.html

Looks like the ethics investigation against Palin is going forward, and Todd Palin has been subpoenaed.

This was my favorite part:

The McCain campaign released a statement from Alaska Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell, blaming Democrats.

"I'm disappointed by the complete hijacking of what should be a fair and objective process," the Republican said, calling the investigation a "smear."

McCain picks a governor already under investigation and touts her role in ethics reform, then issues a statement complaining that the investigation is a smear? Who the fuck are they kidding?

McCain's campaign keeps becoming more and more of an indefensible joke.

Brent L
09-12-08, 08:03 PM
:rolleyes:

Call the McCain/Palin campaign a joke if you can't resist doing so, but the punchline will be them winning in November.

wendersfan
09-12-08, 08:17 PM
No, I think you're missing something. They aren't embracing Christ as their example---they couldn't care less if Jesus was a community organizer or Pilate was a governor. It's that they have this view of all Christians as dimwitted, narrow-minded rubes, and if these brilliant leftists OK, hold it right there. I'm as much of a "separation of church and state fanatic" as anyone who posts here. But here's a list of some thing's I'm not: An Obama supporter
A leftist
Someone who thinks Christians are "narrow-minded rubes"

And here's a very short list of something I am:
A Christian
So let's not make any assumptions about people based on scant information, OK?

DavidLMath
09-12-08, 08:25 PM
Here is more from the ADN site:

In a letter made public Thursday, Senior Assistant Attorney General Michael Barnhill promised to go to court to block the subpoenas "unless the current manner of pursuing the investigation changes." In his letter to the 12 members of the state's Legislative Council, the body of Republican and Democratic legislators that unanimously approved the investigation, Barnhill criticized the way it has been conducted. "At present the investigation is using such tactics as a tipline and secret depositions in which witnesses are asked under oath to testify to rumor and gossip," he wrote. "Those tactics raise questions about the scope and true purpose of the investigation."

Barnhill took exception to statements made by Sen. Hollis French, D-Anchorage, who heads the Senate Judiciary Committee. French was quoted early this month as saying that if the governor's office obtained confidential information from Wooten's personnel file "it would be a violation of state law." Under state law, personnel records of state employees are confidential except for names, titles, dates of employment and compensation. Under standard operating procedures set out by the Department of Administration, which maintains many personnel records, routine access to confidential documents "is limited to those employees who must use state personnel records in order to perform their regular ongoing assigned job duties."

But nothing in those regulations prevents the governor from assigning staff members to review personnel files, Barnhill said. “Conducting these depositions under an improper threat of potential prosecution is unfair," Barnhill wrote. If the lawmakers agree in writing with his interpretation of the Personnel Act, he said, the attorney general's office "will drop its objections and the depositions may proceed without subpoenas."

Sen. Kim Elton, D-Juneau, who chairs the Legislative Council, was on a plane and could not be reached for comment Thursday. An aide, Jesse Kiehl, said: "He's read the letter. I don't believe that we have written back."

One of these Democrats mentioned here is a big Obama supporter. It has been mentioned that the Alaskan Democratic officials are hoping for an October Surprise with the final report on this issue. I hope the Democrats keep politicizing this issue and continue the other attacks on Palin all the way to the election as it will almost assure victory for the Republicans.

CRM114
09-12-08, 08:35 PM
democrats started it when they tried to say bush was dumb back in 2000 and make it a campaign issue. i guess nothing's changed since then.

"Started it?" If you want to go there, I'd suggest backing up a few years when a certain witch-hunt and subsequent impeachment occurred.

wendersfan
09-12-08, 08:36 PM
"Started it?" If you want to go there, I'd suggest backing up a few years when a certain witch-hunt and subsequent impeachment occurred.Let's not bring Nixon into it.

CRM114
09-12-08, 08:38 PM
I wonder what he thinks about the Seinfeld-Gates ads.

I think Seinfeld needs Larry David.

CRM114
09-12-08, 08:40 PM
I just realized that 2012 will be the first election that I am eligible to be president of the United States of America! :banana:

Son?

Ky-Fi
09-12-08, 08:42 PM
OK, hold it right there. I'm as much of a "separation of church and state fanatic" as anyone who posts here. But here's a list of some thing's I'm not: An Obama supporter
A leftist
Someone who thinks Christians are "narrow-minded rubes"

And here's a very short list of something I am:
A Christian
So let's not make any assumptions about people based on scant information, OK?


My apologies---that was not directed at you at all. I haven't followed this thread that closely and didn't mean to step into an exchange between posters here. I was directing it at the Obama supporter from a video posted who made the initial claim that Jesus was a community organizer and Pilate was a governor----which I also heard today repeated by Susan Sarandon. And it was also directed at the far-left Obama supporters who suddenly got religion and were outraged by Palin's daughter's pre-marital sex.

I may not always agree with you, but I don't consider you a far-left loon. -wink-

CRM114
09-12-08, 08:46 PM
Makes perfect sense to me!! Love that "Progressive Logic".
.

Um, the dude has an Ayn Rand quote in his sig.

:lol:

wendersfan
09-12-08, 08:47 PM
Not that I really have paid much attention to it, but I didn't notice Obama supporters using the "Jesus was a community organizer" line until after the Republican convention, when Obama was basically ridiculed by everyone for having been one. So, from my view, while the "Jesus was a community organizer" line is pretty silly, it seems to be in response to a concerted, organized, petty attack.

JasonF
09-12-08, 08:52 PM
The latest on Governor Palin: somebody unearthed this video from a 2007 Republican primary debate where Senator McCain derides Governor Romney's and Mayor Giuliani's experience:

CzhFDQIgGSg

Oops!

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 08:58 PM
It's funny that you think that means something. :)

JasonF
09-12-08, 09:07 PM
It's funny that you think that means something. :)

:shrug: Personally, I think Senator McCain was wrong when he attacked Governor Romney and Mayor Giuliani. There are a lot of things thata can prepare you partially for the presidency, and nothing will ever compare you completely. So being a mayor or a governor is not really any better or any worse than being a senator, at least not in the abstract.

Now, with Governor Palin in particular, I think she's an ignorant lightweight with large gaps in her knowledge and capabilities. But that has nothing to do with her prior jobs; some mayors or governors would do well on the national and international stage and some wouldn't; she's in the latter camp.

But I posted the clip because I think it's funny that the very same criticisms Senator McCain leveled against his opponents less than a year ago could now be turned around on his running mate. Does it mean something? No, other than the fact that Senator McCain pwned himself.

X
09-12-08, 09:12 PM
Good thing Palin's not running for president.

Of the 4 candidates (from what I read, evidently each one has an equal chance of becoming president) the one who scares me most is Joe Biden. That guy hasn't been right about any major decision he's ever made. Unless you're in an environment where people know (and are allowed) to do the opposite of what you say, experience combined with always being wrong is worse to me than inexperience.

dork
09-12-08, 09:20 PM
Of the 4 candidates (from what I read, evidently each one has an equal chance of becoming president) the one who scares me most is Joe Biden. That guy hasn't been right about any major decision he's ever made.
-rolleyes- He has a much higher IQ than you do!

movielib
09-12-08, 09:29 PM
Let's not bring Nixon into it.
:lol: He must have meant Andrew Johnson. Nixon wasn't impeached.

X
09-12-08, 09:32 PM
-rolleyes- He has a much higher IQ than you do!That's right. I forgot he told me that. :(

Paul_SD
09-12-08, 09:32 PM
so what are two or three proposals of Bidens that were proved to be conclusively, disastorously wrong?

crazyronin
09-12-08, 09:33 PM
-rolleyes- He has a much higher IQ than you do!

:lol: A true BidenClassic™

JasonF
09-12-08, 09:34 PM
Good thing Palin's not running for president.

The Vice President has two formal duties -- breaking ties in the Senate and succeeding to the presidency in the case of death or disability of the president -- and one informal duty -- advising the president.

I'm sure she'll be good at breaking ties, should any occur during her tenure. The rest scare the hell out of me.

It also scares the hell out of me that Senator McCain thinks that Governor Palin is the most qualified running mate he could pick.

dork
09-12-08, 09:35 PM
so what are two or three proposals of Bidens that were proved to be conclusively, disastorously wrong?
For one thing, he was wrong on both the war and the surge. Yet he seems to have become every Democrat's foreign policy wizard. :shrug:

dork
09-12-08, 09:37 PM
The Vice President has two formal duties -- breaking ties in the Senate and succeeding to the presidency in the case of death or disability of the president -- and one informal duty -- advising the president.

I'm sure she'll be good at breaking ties, should any occur during her tenure. The rest scare the hell out of me.

Is an "informal duty" anything like "not a duty"?

taa455
09-12-08, 09:50 PM
http://www.adn.com/palin/story/524038.html

Looks like the ethics investigation against Palin is going forward, and Todd Palin has been subpoenaed.

This was my favorite part:



McCain picks a governor already under investigation and touts her role in ethics reform, then issues a statement complaining that the investigation is a smear? Who the fuck are they kidding?

McCain's campaign keeps becoming more and more of an indefensible joke.

Sounds an awful lot like the same criticism Ken Starr got from Democrats during the Clinton investigation. It's politics as usual.

DVD Polizei
09-12-08, 09:57 PM
Change.

CertifiedTHX
09-12-08, 10:41 PM
Good thing Palin's not running for president.

People keep dismissing her with statements like that, and I don't understand why. The VP may not be in charge, but he (or she) must be ready to take over should the occasion arise. The wisdom and experience of the candidate must be taken into consideration. If McCain became so ill that he could no longer serve, even died, Palin would be the president.

Of the 4 candidates (from what I read, evidently each one has an equal chance of becoming president) the one who scares me most is Joe Biden. That guy hasn't been right about any major decision he's ever made. Unless you're in an environment where people know (and are allowed) to do the opposite of what you say, experience combined with always being wrong is worse to me than inexperience.

What major decisions has Biden made, and how have they been wrong?

--THX

taa455
09-12-08, 10:56 PM
People keep dismissing her with statements like that, and I don't understand why. The VP may not be in charge, but he (or she) must be ready to take over should the occasion arise. The wisdom and experience of the candidate must be taken into consideration. If McCain became so ill that he could no longer serve, even died, Palin would be the president.

And if that were to happen, chaos would instantly ensue, right? No. Let's not act like our nation would collapse if someone like Palin became the President. How many crucial decisions does the President make alone? None. The cabinet would still be in place. She would have scores of people with all types of expertise to advise her. And why couldn't Palin, if she did assume the Presidency, appoint a VP with foreign policy experience if need be? We'd be in the same boat then as we would if Obama/Biden had been elected. No?

gmanca
09-12-08, 11:05 PM
And if that were to happen, chaos would instantly ensue, right? No. Let's not act like our nation would collapse if someone like Palin became the President. How many crucial decisions does the President make alone? None. The cabinet would still be in place. She would have scores of people with all types of expertise to advise her. And why couldn't Palin, if she did assume the Presidency, appoint a VP with foreign policy experience if need be? We'd be in the same boat then as we would if Obama/Biden had been elected. No?

Vice President Cheney issued the "takedown" order during the attack on 9/11.

If you want to act like right now, at this time in the world, it'd be ok for Palin to be VP, it is irresponsible, reckless, and dangerous. Why not pick Romney, why not pick Kay Bailey Hutchinson?

Th0r S1mpson
09-12-08, 11:10 PM
If you want to act like right now, at this time in the world, it'd be ok for Palin to be VP, it is irresponsible, reckless, and dangerous.

Because of an experience level that is comparable to the Democratic presidential candidate, or because she's a woman?

Or are you worried about her using launch codes to kill Matt Damon with a 4,000 year old dinosaur?

gmanca
09-12-08, 11:21 PM
I was, and still am a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton, so no, not because she's a woman. It's somewhat comparable on the totality, but not on the specifics of foreign policy experience, which I have expressed and explained before.

And yes, I worry that she may think the dino bones were fakes sent from God to weed out the non-believers. Not so much about killing Matt Damon with a dinosaur.

dork
09-12-08, 11:24 PM
I was, and still am a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton
Where were you hiding when we were discussing the primaries around here? :sad:

gmanca
09-12-08, 11:28 PM
Where were you hiding when we were discussing the primaries around here? :sad:

I was pinned down by sniper-fire at the dailyKos.

dork
09-12-08, 11:40 PM
:lol:

It wasn't much better over here.

mgbfan
09-12-08, 11:52 PM
And if that were to happen, chaos would instantly ensue, right? No. Let's not act like our nation would collapse if someone like Palin became the President. How many crucial decisions does the President make alone? None. The cabinet would still be in place. She would have scores of people with all types of expertise to advise her.
Ahh well then you've convinced me. Clearly, the idea that she's unfit for the job shouldn't really be relevent to whether we elect her to the job.

After all, it's just the presidency. Doesn't really matter.

mgbfan
09-12-08, 11:55 PM
Because of an experience level that is comparable to the Democratic presidential candidate, or because she's a woman?
Because those are the only two choices, right? It couldn't possibly be because she's a book-banning, bible-thumping, evolution-denying, corrupt, and vastly underqualified evangelical candidate.

As another poster said earlier, the idea of her in the Oval Office is, in a word, terrifying. This comes from someone who, a few weeks ago, was very seriously considering voting for McCain.

creekdipper
09-13-08, 12:06 AM
Because those are the only two choices, right? It couldn't possibly be because she's a book-banning, bible-thumping, evolution-denying, corrupt, and vastly underqualified evangelical candidate.

As another poster said earlier, the idea of her in the Oval Office is, in a word, terrifying. This comes from someone who, a few weeks ago, was very seriously considering voting for McCain.

Well, at least she's not already second-guessing her running mate's judgment the way Biden is.

Mordred
09-13-08, 12:07 AM
Because those are the only two choices, right? It couldn't possibly be because she's a book-banning, bible-thumping, evolution-denying, corrupt, and vastly underqualified evangelical candidate.Unsubstantiated claims will get you called out around here.

Mordred
09-13-08, 12:08 AM
Well, at least she's not already second-guessing her running mate's judgment the way Biden is.If this is regarding Biden's praise of Hilary you've got a big rolleyes coming your way.

creekdipper
09-13-08, 12:09 AM
I do find it ironic that you endlessly call Obama a messiah, when it's Sarah Palin, who most people didn't even know who she was just a couple of weeks ago, that is now this great hope for the Republican Party. It's hypocrisy, and you don't even realize it.

?????

I do believe that it's been exclusively Democrats who have been comparing Obama to Christ these past few days...or maybe they were favorably comparing Christ to Obama.

taa455
09-13-08, 12:14 AM
Ahh well then you've convinced me. Clearly, the idea that she's unfit for the job shouldn't really be relevent to whether we elect her to the job.

After all, it's just the presidency. Doesn't really matter.

Ignoring your sarcasm, let me clarify. I am saying it's not one extreme or the other. The prospect of Palin becoming President should not be something to panic over, nor should it be something taken lightly or without concern. The idea that she's unfit for the job is your opinion, by the way. Doesn't make it a indisputable fact.

tasha99
09-13-08, 12:21 AM
Unsubstantiated claims will get you called out around here.

I was going to highlight "book banning" and "corrupt." I think she's a wee bit of a bible thumper, probably denies evolution (not positive on this), and is under-qualified (though so is Obama.) On the other hand, what books did she ban? Are we sure she's corrupt? There have been so many lies, like the book banning one, that I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt unless someone can prove their accusations. Every false accusation makes the next one a little less meaningful.

Edit: Meh, I'm tired. Though I replied to Mordred's post, I mostly meant my response to be to mgbfan's.

creekdipper
09-13-08, 12:41 AM
If this is regarding Biden's praise of Hilary you've got a big rolleyes coming your way.

Roll 'em!!!

Baby needs a new pair of shoes.

Brack
09-13-08, 12:45 AM
?????

I do believe that it's been exclusively Democrats who have been comparing Obama to Christ these past few days...or maybe they were favorably comparing Christ to Obama.

Um, the Republicans on here, and many other places, have loathingly labeled Obama "The Messiah" or "The One." So of course, ANY reference that will signal such a notion will be grounds for the right to be making such claims. Again, it was a comparison in community organizing, not in lasting impression. But you already know that, and you're simply being cynical.

creekdipper
09-13-08, 12:58 AM
Um, the Republicans on here, and many other places, have loathingly labeled Obama "The Messiah" or "The One." So of course, ANY reference that will signal such a notion will be grounds for the right to be making such claims. Again, it was a comparison in community organizing, not in lasting impression. But you already know that, and you're simply being cynical.

No, I will gladly acknowledge that many opponents of Obama have sarcastically used the labels you mention.

However, to say that the recent unfortunate remarks from Democrats were not to cast Obama in a favorable (heroic) light and Palin in the opposite (villainous) mode is to go beyond cynicism.

Maybe the labels used to describe Obama rile up his supporters...I dunno. It's obvious that those labels (along with "the Anointed", etc.) are used to mock what is viewed as slavish devotion to a candidate. When a candidate's OWN side uses a comparison to a Messiah, however...especially when done in utter seriousness...it really does leave that side open to charges of visions of grandeur & egocentricity.

Brack
09-13-08, 01:07 AM
Again, that's friggin' hilarious, considering the never-ending defensive attitude that Palin lovers have had over the whole 2 weeks that they even knew she existed.

And Palin was the one knocking Obama FIRST, so any villainous words going her way were deserved.

creekdipper
09-13-08, 01:20 AM
Moose hockey, you community organizer!

mhg83
09-13-08, 01:21 AM
So what did you guys think about the interview on 20/20? It seemed like she tried avoiding giving a direct answer to the hot button issues. She came off at times nervous (though for an interview like that its to be expected) But at other times she seemed very laid back. Overall i think she did a good job. Cant wait to see the debate she has with Biden.

sracer
09-13-08, 01:32 AM
So what did you guys think about the interview on 20/20? It seemed like she tried avoiding giving a direct answer to the hot button issues. She came off at times nervous (though for an interview like that its to be expected) But at other times she seemed very laid back. Overall i think she did a good job. Cant wait to see the debate she has with Biden.
What little I saw of the interview did not look good. Palin looked extremely scripted and overly cautious. She was a mayor, a governor, and a sportcaster. She's not unfamiliar with interviews and public appearances.

gmanca
09-13-08, 01:33 AM
She's doing OK I guess, this is a different sitdown than the other day.

I take that back, she ran around in circles on the "Bridge to Nowhere;" She said that people were fed up with the earmark process and that if they were going to build it, they'd do it with Alaskan dollars. But when asked why she kept the money, she said it was important infrastructure dollars.

The dollars came from an earmark that she felt was excessive but kept them because they were important to infrastructure. I want to see how that isn't a flip-flop, when State Governments usually enter into Federal dollar-for-dollar supplements on infrastructure projects.

Baron Of Hell
09-13-08, 01:36 AM
No, I will gladly acknowledge that many opponents of Obama have sarcastically used the labels you mention.

However, to say that the recent unfortunate remarks from Democrats were not to cast Obama in a favorable (heroic) light and Palin in the opposite (villainous) mode is to go beyond cynicism.

Maybe the labels used to describe Obama rile up his supporters...I dunno. It's obvious that those labels (along with "the Anointed", etc.) are used to mock what is viewed as slavish devotion to a candidate. When a candidate's OWN side uses a comparison to a Messiah, however...especially when done in utter seriousness...it really does leave that side open to charges of visions of grandeur & egocentricity.

I think it is a bit of a stretch to say the dems are comparing obama to jesus just because one guy pointed out that by insulting community organizers you are also insulting jesus. I take it you think jesus is factious but that isn't the point. Many people believe he existed and did indeed help people. More importantly the people comparing obama to a false messiah think this. That makes their insult all the more idiotic.

Nausicaa
09-13-08, 01:44 AM
In terms of the first half of the interview, which dealt with domestic issues like the economy, tax policy, and how a McCain/Palin ticket would differ from Bush, I think she did a terrible job. Her responses were transparently rehearsed to the point where it looked like she really didn't know what she was talking about. There were a couple times where she simply went off the handle rambling streams of incoherent nonsense. Throughout, she seemed unnatural and uneasy.

On the other hand, I thought she handled the 'controversial' issues such as abortion and homosexuality relatively well. She did a good job of framing her views by saying something to the effect of, "these are just my opinions, and don't necessarily represent policy". Those answers were so harmless and edited down, I don't know what to make of them.

She came across well during the rest of the segment.

gmanca
09-13-08, 01:53 AM
Yeah, I don't agree with her opinions on abortion, but you could tell her sincerity and directivness on that issue and on homosexuality.

Another portion that had me rolling was the question of whether her proximity to Russia and commanding of the National Guard were sufficient foreign policy experiences and her response being with "But it's about Reform of Government?" WTF? Seriously, WTF? She just said the other day during the "Bush Doctrine" incident that she understood Bush's policy on protecting the US. WTF is needing reform?

creekdipper
09-13-08, 01:56 AM
She's doing OK I guess, this is a different sitdown than the other day.

I take that back, she ran around in circles on the "Bridge to Nowhere;" She said that people were fed up with the earmark process and that if they were going to build it, they'd do it with Alaskan dollars. But when asked why she kept the money, she said it was important infrastructure dollars.

The dollars came from an earmark that she felt was excessive but kept them because they were important to infrastructure. I want to see how that isn't a flip-flop, when State Governments usually enter into Federal dollar-for-dollar supplements on infrastructure projects.

Geraldo is interviewing Chuck Norris right now!!!!

Sorry...got carried away in the presence of all that testosterone.

Palin's performance was not bad. She did seem overly cautious (probably at the prompting of the Repub. handlers). Considering the 'gotcha' tone of Gibson, most likely a wise move. Better than making one of Biden's well-publicized gaffes.

It also seemed that she overdid projecting the 'get tough' image. Maybe that was an effort to convince "terrified" voters such as Matt Damon that she could be a commander-in-chief who could stare down Putin.

The earmark explanation was lame. I can see that her point that, technically, some earmarks seem to be justified while others (the Big Dig, etc.) seem to be pure pork and horribly unnecessary & wasteful. It seemed that she was trying to draw a distinction between wasteful spending and spending that actually improves the lives of citizens.

That still doesn't explain why she was initially in favor of the project or why her definition of 'earmarks' differs so much from McCain's (of the four Pres./VP candidates, he seems to be the only "pure" one available). McCain/Palin would have been better off saying that Palin's administration had requested less earmarks than her predecessor and that she had made a mistake on the Bridge fiasco but learned her lesson later (rather than drawing attention to a weakness). IMO, poor judgment & strategy on their part and one that certainly leaves them open to continued criticism.

On most of the other points, she did okay. Gibson came across as an ass at times...biting his lower lip & making weird faces at one point, editiorializing through his inflections ("She SAYS that...." in a 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink' style rather than, "She says that...."), misquoting her at times (the remarks she made in her church), etc. The "Bush Doctrine" question was discussed quite a bit...he seemed to think that his definition of "The Bush Doctrine" (a label created by the media) is universally accepted, when there are at least four presuppositions from the administration that could be called the "Bush Doctrine".

Palin may have appeared scripted, but she stayed on message (something important for VP's when representing the country to foreign powers). The last thing you want in a VP is a loose cannon who may unwittingly insult other cultures.

creekdipper
09-13-08, 02:04 AM
I think it is a bit of a stretch to say the dems are comparing obama to jesus just because one guy pointed out that by insulting community organizers you are also insulting jesus. I take it you think jesus is factious but that isn't the point. Many people believe he existed and did indeed help people. More importantly the people comparing obama to a false messiah think this. That makes their insult all the more idiotic.

Not familiar with the term "factious"...did you mean 'fictitious'?

If that's the case, you couldn't be more wrong. However, the interpretation of Jesus's ministry as a "social gospel" rather than a message of serving & worshiping God is a modern creation. Christ certainly did advocate loving your neighbor through acts of mercy, but the thrust of his ministry was spiritual, not physical. For instance, His acts of healing were no doubt prompted by compassion but were primarily used to witness to his divinity (and later, the spiritual gifts given to the apostles were to testify to their legitimate authority in spiritual matters).

You evidently missed the entire host of Democrats (from political figures to celebrities) aping the slogan that "Jesus was a community organizer...Pontius Pilate was a governor". It wasn't just "one guy" (although the Tenn. representative was the only one to say in on the House floor).

Paul_SD
09-13-08, 06:25 AM
For one thing, he was wrong on both the war and the surge. Yet he seems to have become every Democrat's foreign policy wizard. :shrug:
How was he wrong on the war?
Are we still fighting a war- or are we trying to defend an occupation?
Apparently according to Bob Woodward, the 'surge' is not so much given the main credit for a violence reduction as several other factors, including new covert intelligence strategies- however even if it were due solely to the influx of an overwhelming number of troops...WTF does anyone expect to happen when they are eventually drawn down? Murders are up in Chicago I hear- I'm sure having a heavily armed presence patroling the streets night and day with overwhelming firepower could see a spectacular reduction in that statistic in short order. The point isn't that you can achieve it, it is that it can't be supported indefinitely and once support is withdrawn what do you expect will happen?

matta
09-13-08, 09:22 AM
I think it is a bit of a stretch to say the dems are comparing obama to jesus just because one guy pointed out that by insulting community organizers you are also insulting jesus.

No, he directly compared Obama to Jesus and Palin to Pontius Pilate.

matta
09-13-08, 09:29 AM
Apparently according to Bob Woodward, the 'surge' is not so much given the main credit for a violence reduction as several other factors, including new covert intelligence strategies- however even if it were due solely to the influx of an overwhelming number of troops...WTF does anyone expect to happen when they are eventually drawn down?

:lol: Bob Woodward and his secret assassination squad are your argument.

Yes, the increase in US troops is responsible for the decrease in violence. After the increased commitment, counter offensives, and presence, coupled with new bargaining techniques (all specifically directed by McCain, who risked an entire political career on making it work, and which wouldn't have happened without his relentless campaigning for it), the tribal leaders switched sides, and turned against Al Qaeda. As a direct result, casualties have fallen and almost 2/3rd of Iraqi provinces are now fully under Iraqi control.

What happens when we remove the additional troops? We already have, and in the process, turned over Anbar. We're now below troop levels from before the war, and another troop level reduction was announced.

And what would have happened if we followed the Biden / Obama plan of immediate withdrawal? A power vacuum, followed by civil war, a resurgence of Al Qaeda in that area, a destabilized Middle East, and probably $200/gal oil.

Brack
09-13-08, 09:59 AM
The number of troops is still about surge levels, and will be even after February.

Nausicaa
09-13-08, 11:03 AM
Gibson came across as an ass at times...

Seemed like the honest reactions of a person who realizes his interview subject is clueless. I give Gibson credit for not letting her off the hook when she sputtered a bunch of rehearsed nonsense without even touching on the question, which happened consistently during the first half of the interview. Not surprisingly, she couldn't field any follow up questions that required a nuanced understanding of an issue.

...when there are at least four presuppositions from the administration that could be called the "Bush Doctrine".

And she didn't even attempt to describe a single one and ask if that's what he meant. 'His worldview'. She didn't even have the cursory background knowledge to defend herself half the time. Gibson gave her clues with the Bush doctrine question when he said it was around 2002 and the lead up to the Iraq war. I admit, the question was odd to begin with, but her utter lack of anything to say on the matter is telling.

Brack
09-13-08, 11:20 AM
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nemein
09-13-08, 11:27 AM
:wtf:

Sean O'Hara
09-13-08, 11:28 AM
I think it is a bit of a stretch to say the dems are comparing obama to jesus just because one guy pointed out that by insulting community organizers you are also insulting jesus.

If he was just making that point, why did he then mention that Pilate was a governor? It's quite clear that he was drawing a parallel between Jesus/Pilate and Obama/Palin, with Palin as an evil bitch who'd kill the Messiah.

JasonF
09-13-08, 11:31 AM
The Democratic Governor of Illinois has something to say to some of you:

Democratic Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich defends Sarah Palin:

Blagojevich, who said he spent two summers after high school working on the Alaska pipeline, readily defended the executive experience that governors have in contrast to legislators when it comes to being presidential material.

"I would hope the Democrats wouldn't say that about a governor," Blagojevich, a former state legislator and congressman, told O'Dell of criticism that the first-term Palin lacks experience.

"The reality is, governors every day have to make decisions for better or for worse. That's part of the job. It's an executive position. And it's a position that is like what you’re going to do when you're president. Legislators, they do different things. They debate and they pass their bills back and forth," he said.

"But governors make decisions, and I think it's a tactical mistake for the Democrats to question Gov. Palin's experience when she's been a governor of a state," he said. "I don't think the size of the state is relevant. It's the kinds of decisions you have to make as governor. They (Democrats) should focus on the issues and why the policies of President Bush ought to be changed and I think that's what will help Obama win."

If you knew anything at all about the governor of Illinois, you'd know he's the last person you want defending you. He's thoroughly incompetent, which is actually a relatively good thing because he's also corrupt.

Baron Of Hell
09-13-08, 12:37 PM
If he was just making that point, why did he then mention that Pilate was a governor? It's quite clear that he was drawing a parallel between Jesus/Pilate and Obama/Palin, with Palin as an evil bitch who'd kill the Messiah.

I don't agree but even if that was true it is just one guy saying that not the entire democratic party.

matta
09-13-08, 01:42 PM
The number of troops is still about surge levels, and will be even after February.

Actually, no it's not. There are currently 140,000 US troops in Iraq. The pre surge level was about 140,000-150,000, and the surge level was about 178,000.

An additional 8,000 combat troops are scheduled to return without replacement this year, with the potential for that to decrease even more.

Brack
09-13-08, 01:49 PM
I meant presurge, whoops. everywhere I read the presurge was 130,000.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/05/31/mccain_takes_hit_from_obama_on_iraq_progress/

DarkestPhoenix
09-13-08, 02:33 PM
I think it is a bit of a stretch to say the dems are comparing obama to jesus just because one guy pointed out that by insulting community organizers you are also insulting jesus.

Fuck that, it's a damn Democratic talking point!

Congressman Steven Cohen, Donna Brazile, Susan Sarandon, Jonathan Martin and was all over Daily Kos (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/4/162029/0439) and the email lists before that...hell, even Cohen said he got it from a 'bumper sticker' activist email he received earlier.

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Not one man.

Brack
09-13-08, 02:38 PM
regardless if it was one man or a million people, he clarified what he meant, which of course was OBVIOUS to anyone who took more than a second to think about what he meant.

Jack Straw
09-13-08, 04:24 PM
I saw the Cohen clip on TV, and what was hilarious was that when speaking to the Congress, Cohen had a clump of hair on the top of his balding head pointing straight up. Couldn't believe it.

Carry on...

Jack Straw
09-13-08, 04:26 PM
Question: If Palin is fully cooperating with the Trooper-gate investigation, why is it necessary for subpeonas to be issued in order for the investigation to proceed? Could it be that there IS something to it and stalling tactics are being employed.

DVD Polizei
09-13-08, 04:28 PM
:lol: Bob Woodward and his secret assassination squad are your argument.

Yes, the increase in US troops is responsible for the decrease in violence. After the increased commitment, counter offensives, and presence, coupled with new bargaining techniques (all specifically directed by McCain, who risked an entire political career on making it work, and which wouldn't have happened without his relentless campaigning for it), the tribal leaders switched sides, and turned against Al Qaeda. As a direct result, casualties have fallen and almost 2/3rd of Iraqi provinces are now fully under Iraqi control.

What happens when we remove the additional troops? We already have, and in the process, turned over Anbar. We're now below troop levels from before the war, and another troop level reduction was announced.

And what would have happened if we followed the Biden / Obama plan of immediate withdrawal? A power vacuum, followed by civil war, a resurgence of Al Qaeda in that area, a destabilized Middle East, and probably $200/gal oil.

You keep on forgetting the US is paying both sides not to fight each other.

Do you want to keep on paying them, increasing their "wages", and capitulating to their demands like a union? Because this will be the only possible way to prevent such fighting. Once the money runs out, the fighting will return. And even then, if we have an upsurge in bombings from a small rival group who could care less about US cash, it might provoke the others to get involved.

In other words, it's simply not exclusively to do with US Troops coming into an area, and somehow magically stopping people from killing each other. It goes much deeper than that.

As far as $200/gal for oil, vote for McCain/Palin. They want to invade Iran, they want to teach Russia a lesson. Hell, it's Oil 101.

You want to talk about a destabilized Middle East? Is it even stable now?

As an aside, do we see Israel occupying other Middle East countries?

Giantrobo
09-13-08, 04:29 PM
Question: If Palin is fully cooperating with the Trooper-gate investigation, why is it necessary for subpeonas to be issued in order for the investigation to proceed? Could it be that there IS something worth hiding or at least stalling about.


I said early on that Trooper Gate may be more of an issue and harder to blow off than Teen Mama-gate.

I guess we'll see.

DVD Polizei
09-13-08, 05:08 PM
Question: If Palin is fully cooperating with the Trooper-gate investigation, why is it necessary for subpeonas to be issued in order for the investigation to proceed? Could it be that there IS something to it and stalling tactics are being employed.

Palin isn't being be subpoenaed. So, her cooperation has nothing to do with being subpoenaed. However, others are.

Palin not being subpoenaed is more of a courtesy and a typical strategy of law in order to get the person investigated to testify without having to be officially requested to do so.

Charlie Huggins is a Republican from Wasilla and yet he wants the investigation to work itself out without external interference.

I think he's the only Republican who thinks this.

Monegan (employee who was fired by Palin) says he has evidence which shows a compulsion to fire Wooten. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

Jack Straw
09-13-08, 05:48 PM
Unless Palin has a disfiguring accident between now and Nov 4th, I don't think any of this will matter.

shadowhawk2020
09-13-08, 08:45 PM
Palin Never Visited Iraq


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/13/palin.iraq/index.html


Sarah Palin did not visit troops in Iraq, a spokesperson for the Republican vice presidential nominee confirmed Saturday, as new details emerged about the extent of the Alaska governor's foreign travel.

In July of last year, Palin left North America for the first time to visit Alaskan troops stationed in Kuwait. Palin officials originally said her itinerary included U.S. military installations or outposts in Germany and Kuwait, and that she had visited Ireland.

A Palin aide in Alaska had said Iraq was also one of the military stops on that trip.

The Boston Globe, however, reported Saturday that in response to questions about the trip, Alaska National Guard officials and campaign aides said Palin did not go past the Kuwait-Iraq border.

In addition, campaign aides also confirmed reports to CNN Saturday that Palin's time in Ireland on that trip had actually been a refueling stop.

Paul_SD
09-13-08, 08:54 PM
Sorry that I only have the mobile device link, but the NYT profile of her in Sundays edition is now up on the website.

Interviews show that Ms. Palin runs an administration that puts a premium on loyalty and secrecy. The governor and her top officials sometimes use personal e-mail accounts for state business; dozens of e-mail messages obtained by The New York Times show that her staff members studied whether that could allow them to circumvent subpoenas seeking public records.

Plenty of other example of Type A ethical blindness, pettiness and vindictivness, and the usual high level cronyism (albeit culled from her high school peer group). She sounds like a genetic cross between Hillary and Bush...a murky depth dwelling, vicious ocean snake with a folksy and charmingly attractive exterior and plenty of enthusiastic acolytes.
Just the kind of change this country needs.
...if you define change as continuity that is.

Pharoh
09-13-08, 08:57 PM
Palin Never Visited Iraq


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/13/palin.iraq/index.html


Sarah Palin did not visit troops in Iraq, a spokesperson for the Republican vice presidential nominee confirmed Saturday, as new details emerged about the extent of the Alaska governor's foreign travel.

In July of last year, Palin left North America for the first time to visit Alaskan troops stationed in Kuwait. Palin officials originally said her itinerary included U.S. military installations or outposts in Germany and Kuwait, and that she had visited Ireland.

A Palin aide in Alaska had said Iraq was also one of the military stops on that trip.

The Boston Globe, however, reported Saturday that in response to questions about the trip, Alaska National Guard officials and campaign aides said Palin did not go past the Kuwait-Iraq border.

In addition, campaign aides also confirmed reports to CNN Saturday that Palin's time in Ireland on that trip had actually been a refueling stop.


Did she ever say she did?

Tracer Bullet
09-13-08, 09:33 PM
Did she ever say she did?

I don't believe so, but her aides did, and Palin didn't correct them.

CaptainMarvel
09-13-08, 10:20 PM
Palin Never Visited Iraq


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/13/palin.iraq/index.html


You have to love CNN. I've watched over the years with great amusement as they've taken pains to put the worst possible photographs of Republicans up.

Hank Ringworm
09-13-08, 10:27 PM
Question: If Palin is fully cooperating with the Trooper-gate investigation, why is it necessary for subpeonas to be issued in order for the investigation to proceed? Could it be that there IS something to it and stalling tactics are being employed.

I was subpoenaed a few months ago to appear in court after a drunk guy side-swiped my parked car. A subpoena has nothing to do with guilt or non-cooperation. It's a request for assistance which happens to be "guaranteed" by the law.

Th0r S1mpson
09-13-08, 11:11 PM
This is the first I ever heard a suggestion that she <i>was</i> in Iraq as well. Oh well.

DVD Polizei
09-13-08, 11:56 PM
Did she ever say she did?

Being a...

1) Republican governor

2) Travelling outside the US

3) Being Pro-Bush Administration

4) Acknowledging Iraq was a task from God

...you'd think she would at least drop by the Green Zone for a quick chat. Regardless if she said she did not.

Oh, and that goes for Obama as well. If was pro-Iraq war, and he travelled outside the US, he should have visited Iraq.

mgbfan
09-14-08, 12:19 AM
Well, at least she's not already second-guessing her running mate's judgment the way Biden is.

Apparently you didn't watch the Gibson interview, because she did EXACTLY that regarding drilling in that Alaskan reserve.

tasha99
09-14-08, 12:56 AM
I was subpoenaed a few months ago to appear in court after a drunk guy side-swiped my parked car. A subpoena has nothing to do with guilt or non-cooperation. It's a request for assistance which happens to be "guaranteed" by the law. I was going to say that where I work, we often subpoena people and their records even when they're cooperating. It's called CYA.

zekeburger1979
09-14-08, 01:08 AM
Sorry that I only have the mobile device link, but the NYT profile of her in Sundays edition is now up on the website.



Plenty of other example of Type A ethical blindness, pettiness and vindictivness, and the usual high level cronyism (albeit culled from her high school peer group). She sounds like a genetic cross between Hillary and Bush...a murky depth dwelling, vicious ocean snake with a folksy and charmingly attractive exterior and plenty of enthusiastic acolytes.
Just the kind of change this country needs.
...if you define change as continuity that is.

New York Times Profile of Sarah Palin 9/14/08 (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?pagewanted=1&hp)

I'm not surprised at all that she would want to surround herself with people who would kiss her ass up and down the oil pipeline and that she would use her power to get what she wants and that she spends quite a bit of time at home instead of conducting business in the capital. Sounds like someone we know, but I can't put my finger on it.....;)

DVD Polizei
09-14-08, 03:26 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26691018

WASILLA, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin lives by the maxim that all politics is local, not to mention personal.

So when there was a vacancy at the top of the State Division of Agriculture, she appointed a high school classmate, Franci Havemeister, to the $95,000-a-year directorship. A former real estate agent, Ms. Havemeister cited her childhood love of cows as one of her qualifications for running the roughly $2 million agency.
:
:
:
When Ms. Palin had to cut her first state budget, she avoided the legion of frustrated legislators and mayors. Instead, she huddled with her budget director and her husband, Todd, an oil field worker who is not a state employee, and vetoed millions of dollars of legislative projects.

Mooooo.

Rypro 525
09-14-08, 03:37 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26691018



Mooooo.that is a msnbc article so there's prob some liberal spin :lol: Also olbermann's gonna have some fun with that article as he did with the gibson interview

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creekdipper
09-14-08, 06:33 AM
regardless if it was one man or a million people, he clarified what he meant, which of course was OBVIOUS to anyone who took more than a second to think about what he meant.

Then perhaps you should take that second second.

DVD Polizei
09-14-08, 10:11 AM
that is a msnbc article so there's prob some liberal spin :lol: Also olbermann's gonna have some fun with that article as he did with the gibson interview

And what kind of spin would that be.

Was Franci Havemeister a friend of Palin? Did she get paid $95K a year, more than a typical person with her qualifications? Was a "love of cows" one of the qualifications Havemeister put on her application?

Why did Palin decline to respond to this article? Oh wait. It was a bunch of lies, and well, clean politicians just don't respond to those. Yeah, that must be it. Of course, couldn't she just say, "I didn't do those things, and your article is wrong."

Well, no. She didn't. She ran back into her McCain Cave.

As more information about Palin is known--you've have had ample time for the Obama Experience criticism, no?--Palin's true behaviors are coming out. Seems like every other day, we discover more incidents of her amazing ability to govern. I can only imagine what she would do if granted more power for her circle of friends.

So, you don't think as these reports and allegations arise, there's no need to investigate any of it. Palin is just immaculately clean, and should be VP.

It's God's Will she should be VP. May God Be Praised.

General Zod
09-14-08, 10:20 AM
she spends quite a bit of time at home instead of conducting business in the capital. Sounds like someone we know, but I can't put my finger on it.....;)
Seems like the typical sexist double standard to me. If she works out of her home she spends too much time being away from the office and if she's away at the office too much she doesn't spend enough time with her kids.

I like how, in complete and utter desperation, people are finding the most idiotic things to be mad at her about. Get over it. Your 2 year running messiah has been replaced. Not necessarily with a better one.. but with a new one. Old and busted - new hotness.

I can see we are in for 4 more years of liberal outrage :lol:

DVD Polizei
09-14-08, 10:26 AM
I doubt that. We'll be drafted for service in Russia and Iran, so those who criticize won't have time to be outraged. But I'm sure all able-bodied adults will be permitted to send letters of outrage to their children in the states.

Oh wait a minute. They'll be slaving away in factories making faulty military equipment for us to use. :)

Brack
09-14-08, 10:53 AM
Then perhaps you should take that second second.

great comback chief.

bhk
09-14-08, 11:09 AM
http://www.lucianne.com/routine/images/09-14-08.jpg




Oh my God! She hired friends and not enemies! Stop the presses. :lol:

bhk
09-14-08, 11:11 AM
Oh and on the same trip to Kuwait, she spent more time visiting wounded troops in Germany than the Messiah.

bhk
09-14-08, 11:46 AM
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/30252

Is This It? Really?

Jennifer Rubin - 09.13.2008 - 10:04 PM
The New York Times does the all-so predictable Sarah Palin bill of indictment for its Sunday front page. It certainly sounds compelling in the paragraph called the “nut graf”:

"Throughout her political career, she has pursued vendettas, fired officials who crossed her and sometimes blurred the line between government and personal grievance, according to a review of public records and interviews with 60 Republican and Democratic legislators and local officials."

But what is so remarkable is how little there is in the page after page of minutiae thrown against the wall by the Times. And indeed there’s plenty of favorable material there. Up front we learn:

Ms. Palin has many supporters. As a two-term mayor she paved roads and built an ice rink, and as governor she has pushed through higher taxes on the oil companies that dominate one-third of the state’s economy. She stirs deep emotions. In Wasilla, many residents display unflagging affection, cheering “our Sarah” and hissing at her critics.

In just the first few paragraphs you have testimony that she was “effective and accessible.” So where are we going here? Well, despite the testimony that she was ”accessible,” others find her “secretive” and inclined to put a premium on “loyalty.” The evidence? The Governor’s office declined a request for emails that would have cost over $400,000. Proof positive. Oh, and the records sought (about Polar Bears and such) were in fact obtained.

Then there is the ” she blurs personal and public behavior” charge. The evidence? A phone call from Todd Palin to a state legislator about the latter’s chief of staff, which Palin denies was mentioned. Pretty thin gruel.

Next we have her tenure as mayor, where again all heck breaks loose because — are ya sitting down? — she brought in her own team. No! Unheard of. Jeeez. Next she’ll be firing the town museum director. Oh no– it’s true! Palin says (”Oh yeah, she says,” you can hear the Times reporters hrrumphing) she was cutting the budget.

This is pathetic, really. Is there something illegal here? Is there something nefarious? What is the point?

The next offense: while she was mayor city employees were told not to talk to the press. The horror! Might there have been a procedure, a public affairs or press person for that? We don’t know and the Times doesn’t tell us.

Then we get to the book banning. But if you read carefully there is no banning, no censorship, no list and no nothing other than someone became “scared” of Palin:

“People would bring books back censored,” recalled former Mayor John Stein, Ms. Palin’s predecessor. “Pages would get marked up or torn out.”

Witnesses and contemporary news accounts say Ms. Palin asked the librarian about removing books from the shelves. The McCain-Palin presidential campaign says Ms. Palin never advocated censorship.

But in 1995, Ms. Palin, then a city councilwoman, told colleagues that she had noticed the book “Daddy’s Roommate” on the shelves and that it did not belong there, according to Ms. Chase and Mr. Stein. Ms. Chase read the book, which helps children understand homosexuality, and said it was inoffensive; she suggested that Ms. Palin read it.

“Sarah said she didn’t need to read that stuff,” Ms. Chase said. “It was disturbing that someone would be willing to remove a book from the library and she didn’t even read it.”

“I’m still proud of Sarah,” she added, “but she scares the bejeebers out of me.”

So Palin talked “about” removing books — but the piece doesn’t tell us what was said. And we hear about Palin’s distaste for a book about homosexual parenting. Again, is there some story in here? We’re up to page three and it hasn’t popped out yet.

We then learn that she did take on her own Republican Party and won the election for Governor by, goodness gracious, preparing for debates with notecards. Color-coded no less.

Then on page four of this eye-popping account, we learn as Governor she had the temerity to have ”surrounded herself with people she has known since grade school and members of her church.” No! She hired people she knew? And people she trusted because she had just run against a hostile machine of her own party? The Lieutenant Governor offers up that they were “competent, qualified, top-notch people,” but are you going to believe him? And then the kicker: it seemed to, well, work out pretty well. We learn:

To her supporters — and with an 80 percent approval rating, she has plenty — Ms. Palin has lifted Alaska out of a mire of corruption. She gained the passage of a bill that tightens the rules covering lobbyists. And she rewrote the tax code to capture a greater share of oil and gas sale proceeds.

“Does anybody doubt that she’s a tough negotiator?” said State Representative Carl Gatto, Republican of Palmer.

The nerve — hiring trusted people and running a competent, popular administration. So we veer back to “secrecy” –dastardly tales of using a private email account and reliance on a circle of close advisors. Once again, the sheer banality of it all is both numbing and humorous. Surely the Old Grey Lady hasn’t devoted all this space for nothing? But that’s the conclusion one reaches as we stumble into page five. And that seems to have more of the same — people who didn’t get emails returned or thought she was too adversarial, harboring a “siege-like” mentality against her foes.

Wow, are you shocked and appalled yet? Me neither, and I can’t for the life of me figure out the point of the story. Ah, yes: the reporters were told to “get the goods” and this is all they found. But being the New York Times they made it really long, put it on the front page, and hoped people wouldn’t read it all that closely and say, “I guess she has a pretty good record if that’s all they had.”

And if you are looking for any detailed description of any of her accomplishments — presumably the reason for her 80 percent popularity — forget it. No room for that.

And where's the NYT hitpiece on the Messiah that details his links to Ayers, Wright, Alinsky et al?

DVD Polizei
09-14-08, 12:07 PM
Oh and on the same trip to Kuwait, she spent more time visiting wounded troops in Germany than the Messiah.

I'm sure the Virgin Mary will use this in her debate.

Bronkster
09-14-08, 12:11 PM
There's nothing wrong with putting friends in positions as long as they're qualified to hold said position.

"Brownie, you're doin' a heck of a job!"

DVD Polizei
09-14-08, 12:15 PM
And where's the NYT hitpiece on the Messiah that details his links to Ayers, Wright, Alinsky et al?

And where is Jennifer Rubin's mentioning of this librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, who told Palin she wouldn't think of banning books which were based on policy selection criteria, but then received a letter from Palin firing Mary Ellen only a few months later.

Oh yes. The Virgin Mary is quite the innocent woman.

Palin isn't completely retarded. She was looking for an unofficial way to ban books through Mary Ellen, thereby placing herself at no risk, but Mary Ellen would be the one who would get the heat for banning those books.

DVD Polizei
09-14-08, 12:17 PM
There's nothing wrong with putting friends in positions as long as they're qualified to hold said position.

"Brownie, you're doin' a heck of a job!"

I totally agree. Hiring friends is fine, but the qualifications are essential, and hiring friends should even raise the bar on qualifications so as to not arouse suspicion of the very debate we are having here.

Dr Mabuse
09-14-08, 12:45 PM
I'm sure the Virgin Mary will use this in her debate.

Oh yes. The Virgin Mary is quite the innocent woman.

Do I detect a Polizei backlash against the 'messiah' label?

DVD Polizei
09-14-08, 12:50 PM
I figured if anyone is deserving of a religious label...it's Palin. :)

zekeburger1979
09-14-08, 12:51 PM
Seems like the typical sexist double standard to me. If she works out of her home she spends too much time being away from the office and if she's away at the office too much she doesn't spend enough time with her kids.

I like how, in complete and utter desperation, people are finding the most idiotic things to be mad at her about. Get over it. Your 2 year running messiah has been replaced. Not necessarily with a better one.. but with a new one. Old and busted - new hotness.

I can see we are in for 4 more years of liberal outrage :lol:

Far from it. I was trying to make a subtle jab at another politician who spent a lot of time at his ranch in Texas, but I guess that flew over your head. ;)

General Zod
09-14-08, 02:52 PM
Far from it. I was trying to make a subtle jab at another politician who spent a lot of time at his ranch in Texas, but I guess that flew over your head. ;)

I knew what you were referring to but it really doesn't have anything to do with anything so I simply ignored it.

gmanca
09-14-08, 03:01 PM
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/30252


And where's the NYT hitpiece on the Messiah that details his links to Ayers, Wright, Alinsky et al?

Again with the "where's the...." talk; the NYT did a piece on Wright back in '07 and it brought up his 9/11 sermon and the Zionism remarks. But no one picked up on it then.

creekdipper
09-14-08, 08:10 PM
And where is Jennifer Rubin's mentioning of this librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, who told Palin she wouldn't think of banning books which were based on policy selection criteria, but then received a letter from Palin firing Mary Ellen only a few months later.

Oh yes. The Virgin Mary is quite the innocent woman.

Palin isn't completely retarded. She was looking for an unofficial way to ban books through Mary Ellen, thereby placing herself at no risk, but Mary Ellen would be the one who would get the heat for banning those books.

Your taking offense is completely understandable & entirely forgiveable since you're obviously a close personal friend of poor "Mary Ellen".

Myself...I believe Jennifer.

creekdipper
09-14-08, 08:13 PM
Palin is just immaculately clean, and should be VP.

It's God's Will she should be VP. May God Be Praised.

See...Palin's reforming work has already begun! -wink-

creekdipper
09-14-08, 08:14 PM
great comback chief.

I'm trying to place your accent. Minnesota?

Baron Of Hell
09-15-08, 12:35 AM
CNN is doing one of their spots on Palin now. Kind of negative so far but I only had it on for a few minutes.

Michael T Hudson
09-15-08, 10:56 AM
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See if this works.

Th0r S1mpson
09-15-08, 11:55 AM
I thought that was pretty funny. Obviously they didn't dig into Palin nearly enough, because I'm not outraged. In fact, I'm outraged that I'm not outraged enough. :mad:

slop101
09-15-08, 04:50 PM
No wonder Palin, an Alaskan, usually looks tan:

http://narconews.com/Issue54/article3191.html

Th0r S1mpson
09-15-08, 05:15 PM
No wonder Palin, an Alaskan, usually looks tan:

http://narconews.com/Issue54/article3191.html

If we are using tan-ness as a measure of guilt, then Obama loses yet again.

"Inexperienced and tan." Another argument that could apply to both the Dem Presidential candidate and the Rep VP pick.

wishbone
09-15-08, 05:25 PM
Sometimes Alaska is daylight-challenged. :shrug:

So what will this latest Gov Palin item be called... Bronzegate? :lol:

TheAllPurposeNothing
09-15-08, 06:11 PM
Sometimes Alaska is daylight-challenged. :shrug:

So what will this latest Gov Palin item be called... Bronzegate? :lol:

I'm actually partial to Palin'-gate.

Bronkster
09-15-08, 06:17 PM
No wonder Palin, an Alaskan, usually looks tan:

http://narconews.com/Issue54/article3191.html
Unless taxpayers paid for the tanning bed (skimmed the article and didn't see that claim) then I don't care if she uses it to make moose jerky.

bhk
09-15-08, 09:51 PM
Funny for me to see the "Virgin Mary" putdown of Palin. None of her supporters are describing her in religious terms or comparing her to known religious figures. But if you look at Barack's devotees, all sorts of them are putting out the "Jesus was a community organizer..." line, the lates was Tom Brokejaw.

bhk
09-15-08, 09:52 PM
I thought that was pretty funny. Obviously they didn't dig into Palin nearly enough, because I'm not outraged. In fact, I'm outraged that I'm not outraged enough. :mad:

Some famous idiot was upset that they didn't hit her hard enough. Oh yes, that famous idiot was Chevy Chase.

matta
09-15-08, 10:21 PM
Oh, man... Greta is grilling the hell out of Todd Palin:

Greta: So what's in your freezer? Fish, some moose meat, some Caribou meat? Is that pretty common around here.
Todd: Uhh, yeah.
Greta: So that moose meat is pretty good
Todd: Yeah, it's good
Greta: Better than caribou? Which do you prefer: moose or caribou?
Todd: Uhh... either one.

Greta asks the most random questions sometimes.

ESUguy
09-15-08, 10:52 PM
<object type='application/x-shockwave-flash' data='http://widgets.nbc.com/o/4727a250e66f9723/48cd3b64ddb82bd0/48cd0cf97d529c95/be940ef3' id='W4727a250e66f972348cd3b64ddb82bd0' height='283' width='384'><param value='http://widgets.nbc.com/o/4727a250e66f9723/48cd3b64ddb82bd0/48cd0cf97d529c95/be940ef3' name='movie'/><param value='transparent' name='wmode'/><param value='all' name='allowNetworking'/><param value='always' name='allowScriptAccess'/></object>


See if this works.

Freakin' NBC had the actual skit yanked from Youtube. Now they just have the reports about it.

Thanks for posting.

Th0r S1mpson
09-15-08, 11:13 PM
Palin apparently won't cooperate with the current investigation into the firing of her public safety commissioner, citing "tampering." Seems like a pretty bad move.

matta
09-15-08, 11:19 PM
Palin apparently won't cooperate with the current investigation into the firing of her public safety commissioner, citing "tampering." Seems like a pretty bad move.

You mean Obama's Alaska campaign chair taking over a "non-partisan" investigation, which was pretty much over before she was selected as VP, and who is modifying the recommendations and stalling to release them in October? Nah. That seems like a fair investigation.

Th0r S1mpson
09-15-08, 11:32 PM
Link to him being Obama's campaign chair?

matta
09-15-08, 11:44 PM
Link: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/AKHQBlog/2008/07

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2718577868_fba2a24e02.jpg

Lead investigator: Back row, 4th from left, bald with blue tie.

gmanca
09-15-08, 11:56 PM
Honestly, to bring this up once again proves how bad of a pick Palin was; He was appointed by the Bi-Partisan commission *before* she was chosen as VP and now he's the problem? And it wasn't *over* when she was picked, the commission approved 100k for it in July and the findings were coming out in late October but now it's been moved up, which would benefit her because it would be released two days AFTER the debate.

matta
09-15-08, 11:58 PM
And here's his comments on the issue in an interview with ABC News


“It’s likely to be damaging to the Governor’s administration,” said Senator Hollis French, a Democrat, appointed the project manager for a bi-partisan State Senate Legislative Counsel Committee investigation of claims that Palin abused her office to get the Alaska public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, fired.

“If they had done their job they never would have picked her,” said French. “Now they may have to deal with an October surprise,” he said, referring to the scheduled release Oct. 31 of the committee’s final report.


Of course, all of this came after they already found the trooper guilty on 4 counts:

Tasing a 10 year old child
Driving while intoxicated in a Trooper vehicle
Making death threats against Palin and her children
Illegally killing a moose

The whole thing wrapped up in 2006, but the report isn't scheduled to be released until October 31, 2008 (as an "October Surprise" according to the lead investigator)

matta
09-16-08, 12:03 AM
Honestly, to bring this up once again proves how bad of a pick Palin was; He was appointed by the Bi-Partisan commission *before* she was chosen as VP and now he's the problem? And it wasn't *over* when she was picked, the commission approved 100k for it in July and the findings were coming out in late October but now it's been moved up, which would benefit her because it would be released two days AFTER the debate.

Nope. It was a problem before. He was the one who attempted to start impeachment procedures before the committee to start the investigation was ever even discussed.

And there's already been two requests to have him removed for being biased.

And have you heard the audio tape floating around now? Pretty damning stuff.

DVD Polizei
09-16-08, 12:03 AM
Just hold on a minute there, matta. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hollis French is not IN CHARGE of the ENTIRE Troopergate investigation. Meaning he doesn't just act on his own. He's supervising Branchflower, under careful watch from a Republican committee.

Legislators, who are Republican by the way, are directing French on what he does. To simply target Mr. French as the sole man responsible for the investigation is ludicrous, and there are many more officials involved in this.

A bipartisan legislative panel appointed French as manager of the investigation. Bipartisan, matta. And actually I think the numbers are 8 Republicans and 4 Democrats on that panel.

Steve Branchflower is in charge of collecting facts and evidence on Palin. In fact, Branchflower declined to subpoena Palin because it would shed more negative politics on the situation than necessary.

Palin declined to come in and talk, even when she wasn't subpoenaed. She decided to play lawyer, and play stall tactics. Reminds me of Clinton. Right, matta? Remember Clinton?

In July of this year, before Palin was even chosen as VP, a legislative oversight committee approved funds to investigate the allegations known now as Troopergate.

So, don't make this into a thing where ONE MAN who is a Dem., has all the control. This is a bunch of bullshit. Flat out bullshit. There are several Republicans who are involved with this investigation as well.

French is an Alaskan-state hired investigator, chosen by a Republican-dominated legislative committee.

French supervises Branchflower, but his overall power is certainly limited in the Republican majority of the committee.

Branchflower has been a prosecutor for 28 years according to this profile.

---I'm editing this a lot to get the facts in proper order---

gmanca
09-16-08, 12:07 AM
I hate using the word as I think it's totally overused, but wow.

The reason for the investigation is to the reason why Monegan was let go in July of *this year*, not when the trooper was found guilty and suspended for 6 days in *2006*. And French was unanimously voted to head the commission by the Bi-Partisan group, so there goes the "it was a problem before" because Republicans on the Commission wouldn't have voted for him.

If McCain is worried that the head of the Commission is an Obama supporter, he should have chosen someone else to run with.

matta
09-16-08, 12:09 AM
Just hold on a minute there, matta. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hollis French is not IN CHARGE of the ENTIRE Troopergate investigation. Meaning he doesn't just act on his own.

http://townhall.com/Columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/09/13/obama_partisan_tampers_with_palin_subpoena_list

Listen to the audio.

Th0r S1mpson
09-16-08, 12:11 AM
I'm just not sure that Palin "refusing to cooperate" is the best course of action. She should be willing to cooperate and battle it by other means.

gmanca
09-16-08, 12:18 AM
I see the follow-up to the concern of Branchflower's "direction" is conveniently left off by Carpenter, which shows no bias on her part, right?

Again, this wouldn't be an issue if he didn't pick her.

gmanca
09-16-08, 12:23 AM
But Republican Charlie Huggins delivered the key vote to allow the subpoenas using language familiar to Gov. Palin.

"We are in a new era of let's get the facts on the table, let's make it clear, and transparent. I see all this duck foot action under the water of trying to delay and water down. I'm simply here today with a short break in my moose hunting to say let's get to the facts and lets have the truth," said Sen. Huggins.

Link (http://www.ktuu.com/global/story.asp?s=8999475)

So a Republican was a key vote for the subpoenas, but it's that big bad Democrat heading the investigation who's the problem.

DVD Polizei
09-16-08, 12:27 AM
http://townhall.com/Columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/09/13/obama_partisan_tampers_with_palin_subpoena_list

Listen to the audio.

Ok, he took somebody off the list. He probably has a reason for it. Maybe the guy has said something without the need for a subpoena.

DVD Polizei
09-16-08, 12:30 AM
I'm just not sure that Palin "refusing to cooperate" is the best course of action. She should be willing to cooperate and battle it by other means.

Exactly. This is what I don't get. Simply walk right into the office of French, Fox News cameras following..., and say you had nothing to do with the firing of the person. Then leave. Have a PR moment, and even deal Dems a blow at the same time.

The only reason you stall...is because you have something to hide and you want it to go away by hoping people forget about it. We've seen it far enough in stories posted on this forum and in Other.

bhk
09-16-08, 12:39 AM
Uh no. We see how that subpeona thing worked on Lewis Libby who got caught on perjury charges for something he said/she said a year and a half ago. She's handling this the correct way.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PALIN_TROOPERGATE?SITE=CARIE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

What I can't believe about the above article is that somehow Palin's side of the story got through in this Ass. Press article.

dolphinboy
09-16-08, 12:50 AM
Isn't Palin's one and only stump speech filled with remarks about reforming Washington and making it more transparent? Isn't that what one of her biggest claims to fame is from her long, storied political career? Didn't she say that she welcomed the investigation, had nothing to hide, and would cooperate fully?

So it's know known she had secret e-mail accounts as Governor and secret meetings with her "staff" (you know, her gal pals and the first dude), so that no one could see them, and it looks like her and the first dude are gonna flip the bird to a republican majority panel investigating her conduct.

God, who does that remind me of? (BUSH)

What's the plan? Lots of ads claiming the the investigation is a democratic witch hunt and sexist. She may or may not have anything to hide, but I'd "reckon" the Rovian plan is that no one will pay any attention to what she did wrong and that the McCain camp doesn't care what the findings end up being. My guess is the strategy is not to defend her good name and show that she has nothing to hide, but to use the entire matter for their own political benefit. Counting on the mostly uninformed electorate to ignore the facts and just soak in the McCain ads making Palin look like a victim.

More news time wasted on the attack ads and counter attack ads, less time on McCain and Palin's continuation of the Bush years and, by the time the report comes out finding she acted inappropriately, no one will notice and McCain will get his 270+ electoral votes.

I love this country.

Th0r S1mpson
09-16-08, 12:53 AM
One and only stump speech?

bhk
09-16-08, 12:53 AM
More news time wasted on the attack ads and counter attack ads, less time on McCain and Palin's continuation of the Bush years and, by the time the report comes out finding she acted inappropriately, no one will notice and McCain will get his 270+ electoral votes.


The timing of the release was going to be an October surprise.

Palin initially said she welcomed the inquiry. But after she became McCain's running mate on Aug. 29 her lawyer sought to have the three-member state Personnel Board take over the investigation, alleging that public statements by the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Democratic state Sen. Hollis French, indicated the probe was politically motivated.

French said Sept. 2 that the results of the investigation could constitute an "October surprise" for the McCain campaign. He later apologized for the remark, but Palin's lawyer has said the biased impression it created can't be undone.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PALIN_TROOPERGATE?SITE=CARIE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

dolphinboy
09-16-08, 12:53 AM
[QUOTE=bhk;8941557]Uh no. She's handling this the correct way.

QUOTE]


You mean, the Washington way.

You'd expect that from Libby, I know, but not from 1 of the 2 Mavericks promising to turn the Washington DC on its head.

bhk
09-16-08, 12:57 AM
[QUOTE=bhk;8941557]Uh no. She's handling this the correct way.

QUOTE]


You mean, the Washington way.

You'd expect that from Libby, I know, but not from 1 of the 2 Mavericks promising to turn the Washington DC on its head.

:lol:

I am just really, really, enjoying the desperation by all on the left. This is so enjoyable. We are seeing leftist women ask if a woman can work and take care of her family, we are seeing leftists defend someone who tasered a 10 year old kid. Wonderful.

dolphinboy
09-16-08, 01:00 AM
The timing of the release was going to be an October surprise.




http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PALIN_TROOPERGATE?SITE=CARIE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

It was a republican from her home district who cast the deciding vote. You know, the salt of the earth, church-going, moose-hunting type (just like our Sarah) and he just said let's get to the truth. Clearly, he wasn't worried that that one comment would BIAS an entire investigation with a republican majority.

Any chance this fella would consider running with McCain? I actually LIKE him.

gmanca
09-16-08, 01:00 AM
:lol:

I am just really, really, enjoying the desperation by all on the left. This is so enjoyable. We are seeing leftist women ask if a woman can work and take care of her family, we are seeing leftists defend someone who tasered a 10 year old kid. Wonderful.

Who's defending him? The investigation isn't about Wooten, it's about Monegan, who was fired two years after Wooten was suspended for 6 days. And it doesn't help her cause that Palin apparently tried to get his pension taken away; that has what to do with his actions?

dolphinboy
09-16-08, 01:06 AM
[QUOTE=dolphinboy;8941590]

:lol:

I am just really, really, enjoying the desperation by all on the left. This is so enjoyable. We are seeing leftist women ask if a woman can work and take care of her family, we are seeing leftists defend someone who tasered a 10 year old kid. Wonderful.


Funny, I don't get why you support these reformers.

Politicians claiming to get away from spin, such as your taser comment, which has NOTHING to do with whether she, her husband, or her staff acted inappropriately.

What the dad did has nothing to do with the Governor "possibly" firing someone for not firing him.

Left, right...keep it rolling, because it's all you've got. It has nothing to do with your paranoia about what leftist women are saying. I've heard several conservative women ON FOX NEWS, in fact, say that they believe she should have passed on the VP position because of the "problem" with her teenage daughter.