Yes on all 3 networks (CNN, MSNBC, and Fox). News is news.I watched the DNC on my local PBS hi-def feed. No real interruptions, just a camera fixed on the podium (kinda like C-Span).

I will do the same with the RNC.

I also watched on PBS HD. It was refreshing.

The Republicans have been making the argument that offshore domestic drilling would have a substantial short-term effect on oil prices. That is simply not true. In the first place, any effect will not be felt for years -- as you acknowledge, it will take years for the oil to come on line. In the second place, there simply are not enough oil reserves in the United States to have a significant effect on oil prices.

First, Bill Clinton made that argument about ANWR in 1995. He said it would take 10 years. That would be nice about now.

Second, the short term affect comes from the idea that speculators would see that we actually have decided to take matters into our own hands and use some of our own resources. That makes speculating on continued rising much riskier. But if we are the biggest consumer and yet the only country in the world who has decided not do anything about it, it seems that the speculation is much easier.

Third, you simply cannot know if there are enough oil reserves when you don't even allow test drilling to accurately see what we have.


I say we quit using the sun because it will go out one day.

Also the argument that oil won't be available for years if we drill now is like arguing that we shouldn't do anything about the deficit or the national debt because we won't see any benefits for years.

I also watched on PBS HD. It was refreshing.


I had no idea PBS was available in HD. I've never checked out. The Victor Borge dvds must be selling well.

I had no idea PBS was available in HD. I've never checked out. The Victor Borge dvds must be selling well.

you're missing out. I think they have the dad from Seinfeld doing some of the coverage. I thought he was dead, but he seems more animated than ever.

Isn't it a bit premature to start this thread 3 days before it starts? Not that anything that noteworthy will occur afterwards either.

Isn't it a bit premature to start this thread 3 days before it starts? Hey, it could be longer than that until it starts...

I had no idea PBS was available in HD. I've never checked out. The Victor Borge dvds must be selling well.


PBS was ahead of all the Network/Cable Stations where HD is concerned.

Isn't it a bit premature to start this thread 3 days before it starts? Not that anything that noteworthy will occur afterwards either.

If we don't get the post count up to at least 700 there will be complaints of bias...

The pre-convention police staters are already out in full force, executing warrants on houses filled with college kids who plan on protesting the convention. Several were arrested and charged with "conspiracy to incite a riot." Can anyone recall the last time that charge was used?

Glenn Greenwald over on Salon has really been on the ball with this, as it's getting very ugly and seems like an overt attempt at breaking up peaceful protests before they begin. Regardless of what you think of protesters, this is pretty despicable. Apparently, lawyers and journalists were also detained.

The NY Time has some coverage of this: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/us/politics/30arrests.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1220104985-Dcl+Tjoc3eipfJB8HL+HPQ&oref=slogin

For Greenwald's full blog on this: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/30/police_raids/index.html

When we hit oil, we'll be full of oil on the domestic drilling issue. In the meantime, it is a messy job, but someone's got to do it.

I always thought there was a refinery problem? As in most operating refineries are old and no one wants a new one in their backyard. With Gustav comming I think 5.00+ gal. will happen. As for Driiling there is always closer locations like along the coastal areas of the lower 48 states, namely Florida and the se coast and the west coast. We could also use more nuclear power plants.

And this:

Failed Super Collider lab in Texas gathers weedschron.com — Had the Superconducting Super Collider been completed as planned, the magnet would now lie in a 54-mile-long tunnel. After spending billions of dollars, Congress axed the SSC 15 years ago. The lab and magnet now sit near the Texas A&M campus, a weathered reminder of what might have been and an apt metaphor for the state of U.S. high-energy physics

I always thought there was a refinery problem? As in most operating refineries are old and no one wants a new one in their backyard. With Gustav comming I think 5.00+ gal. will happen. As for Driiling there is always closer locations like along the coastal areas of the lower 48 states, namely Florida and the se coast and the west coast. We could also use more nuclear power plants.
We could use more of everything. Only in 21st century America is growth of industry looked at like a cancer.

My argument is not that we shouldn't drill because we won't see any affects for 10 years. My argument is that the GOP is lying when they say that if we drill now, we will see the affects next year. I am in favor of drilling -- I just don't think it will have any effect on prices in the short term.

My argument is not that we shouldn't drill because we won't see any affects for 10 years. My argument is that the GOP is lying when they say that if we drill now, we will see the affects next year. I am in favor of drilling -- I just don't think it will have any effect on prices in the short term.

Bush lifting the presidential ban was enough to affect prices in the short term. You're crazy to think that lifting the congressional ban and actually starting the process of drilling won't have an effect.

How classy:

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/absentee/2008/aug/30/fowler-fouls-hurricane-is-gods-favor-to-dem/

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Bush lifting the presidential ban was enough to affect prices in the short term. You're crazy to think that lifting the congressional ban and actually starting the process of drilling won't have an effect.

Or asked another way, do you, (JasonF), believe that oil is priced at its current level due to today's usage? What about the level of consumption next year?

How classy:

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/absentee/2008/aug/30/fowler-fouls-hurricane-is-gods-favor-to-dem/



Very ugly and shameful.

GOP officials say Gustav likely to force convention changes (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/30/gop-officials-say-gustav-likely-to-force-convention-changes/)

"A senior McCain source tells CNN they are considering turning the convention into a service event — a massive telethon to raise money for the Red Cross and other agencies to help with the hurricane.

"He wants to do something service oriented if and when the storm hits and it’s as bad as its expected to be now," said this McCain source.

They are also hoping to get McCain himself to a storm-affected area as soon as possible.

Earlier, John McCain had suggested to a FOX News interviewer that the convention could be suspended if it seemed a festive gathering was inappropriate in light of the potential destruction the storm may bring.

Republican Governors Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Charlie Crist of Florida, Haley Barbour of Mississippi and Rick Perry of Texas — all states which lie in the path of Gustav, currently a Category 4 hurricane — will all skip the GOP convention because of the storm."

Should be an interesting week all around. Great idea turning the convention into a telethon.

CNN and MSNBC will be happy they don't have to cover the convention as much, with Gustav. ;)

That simply isn't true. All it would take is another 2% in worldwide production and prices would drop by quite a bit. Get production to exceed demand by even just a little and then the buyers run the market, not the sellers.

There is a lot of oil here that hasn't been tapped yet. A lot. And it SHOULD be tapped - why buy it from enemy states? Enriching our enemies? That makes no sense. Drill here, drill now (and reap the rewards in 5-10 years' time).

We get most of our oil from Canada and Mexico.

I'm not opposed to drilling. I'm opposed to drilling if we are simply going to drill for a marginal savings in gasoline prices. If we allow drilling the oil MUST be exclusively for American use and we should decrement the amount we buy from the middle east. At the same time we aggressively raise CAFE standards and invest in energy research.

CNN and MSNBC will be happy they don't have to cover the convention as much, with Gustav. ;)

You mean I won't get to see those Bo Derek and Ron Silver profile pieces? Darn. :(

They had a piece on CNN about protesters at the conventions planning to throw urine and feces. Stay classy, anarchists!

How classy:
Likely GOP presidential nominee John McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, are traveling to Mississippi on Sunday to check on people getting prepared for Hurricane Gustav.

How classy:
Likely GOP presidential nominee John McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, are traveling to Mississippi on Sunday to check on people getting prepared for Hurricane Gustav.
If they didn't go, people would be up in arms about why they didn't go. They are in a very tough position. They can't just go on with the convention as usual with this situation.

Yeah, it certainly wouldn't look good with the GOP having a huge party while Obama and Biden are down there stacking sandbags and the sort.

So don't have the convention. That dosen't mean you should hop a jet to the area... are they going to help people pack? If they want to try to help afterwards, that's fine. But doing this now is grandstanding, nothing more.

McCain was scheduled to deliver his acceptance speech Thursday but now may do so from the devastation zone if the storm hits the U.S. coast with the ferocity feared by forecasters

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/13013.html

Boy, the hurricane just makes the speech I've envisioned for Bush to give at the convention that much better.

If he only could acknowledge some mishandling of things, such as Katrina, and pointed to the lessons learned and how it's being handled so much better now...

If they didn't go, people would be up in arms about why they didn't go. They are in a very tough position. They can't just go on with the convention as usual with this situation.

Bad idea. They will cause traffic jams delay people from leaving with their presence. I'm not really sure what kind of crowds these guys pull but I thinking it is big enough to cause problems.

How classy:

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/absentee/2008/aug/30/fowler-fouls-hurricane-is-gods-favor-to-dem/

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Everyone was thinking it. And I will add that it is pretty messed up to record a private conversation. It is kind of sad what we have become and I am including the hurricane commit also. Just because everyone was thinking it you don't have to laugh about it. A lot of innocent people and animals could die because god hates republicans and can't seem to kill anybody with destroying a city or two in the process.

Sorry, public area, no expectation of privacy. Want to make asshole statements in public? Expect them to be aired.

The pre-convention police staters are already out in full force, executing warrants on houses filled with college kids who plan on protesting the convention. Several were arrested and charged with "conspiracy to incite a riot." Can anyone recall the last time that charge was used?

Glenn Greenwald over on Salon has really been on the ball with this, as it's getting very ugly and seems like an overt attempt at breaking up peaceful protests before they begin. Regardless of what you think of protesters, this is pretty despicable. Apparently, lawyers and journalists were also detained.

The NY Time has some coverage of this: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/us/politics/30arrests.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1220104985-Dcl+Tjoc3eipfJB8HL+HPQ&oref=slogin

For Greenwald's full blog on this: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/30/police_raids/index.html


http://wcco.com/rnc/St.Paul.targets.2.806711.html This is a CBS affiliate, not Fox.


During raids this weekend they have confiscated makeshift maps and weapons, including machetes, hatchets, knives, metal pipes and homemade devices believed to be used to disable buses. They also found buckets of urine that police believe anarchists were going to throw at them.

In the video you see huge bolt cutters, what look like caltrops and other assorted homemade weapons. Seems like they had good reason.

And I will add that it is pretty messed up to record a private conversation.If there was wiretapping or hidden microphones in a hotel room or some sort of entrapment going on, then I'd agree with you.

but they had no expectation of privacy in that setting, so anything they say is fair game.

http://wcco.com/rnc/St.Paul.targets.2.806711.html This is a CBS affiliate, not Fox.


During raids this weekend they have confiscated makeshift maps and weapons, including machetes, hatchets, knives, metal pipes and homemade devices believed to be used to disable buses. They also found buckets of urine that police believe anarchists were going to throw at them.

In the video you see huge bolt cutters, what look like caltrops and other assorted homemade weapons. Seems like they had good reason.

Read the article very, very carefully. They found machetes, hatchets, and knives in a home. You know, where those things actually exist. Nobody was arrested or charged with anything. Is a makeshift map particularly uncommon for a protester to have or make? Isn't it expected for protesters to plan their location of protest?

This is not a domestic terrorism story, and that WCCO story is deliberately combining the RNC Welcoming Committee story with the I-Witness story, which are completely separate groups and incidents.

Read the article very, very carefully. They found machetes, hatchets, and knives in a home. You know, where those things actually exist. Nobody was arrested or charged with anything. Is a makeshift map particularly uncommon for a protester to have or make? Isn't it expected for protesters to plan their location of protest?

This is not a domestic terrorism story, and that WCCO story is deliberately combining the RNC Welcoming Committee story with the I-Witness story, which are completely separate groups and incidents.

You're right about the maps, which is why I didn't question them. Do many homes also have huge bolt cutters, caltrops and buckets of urine? I thought that you, or the articles you quoted, said people were arrested? You might have apoint about the articles being combined, I'll reread them, but it does seem that in certain instances the actions were justified.

CNN is reporting on this as well:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/30/rnc.protest/index.html

At least Michael Moore admitted that he now believes God exists.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20080830000004.aspx
“I was just thinking, this Gustav is proof that there is a God in heaven,”

That might hurt him with his smug atheist fans.

Well, it looks like it's now official that Bush and Cheney both will not be at the convention:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080831/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_gustav_23

Since when was Moore ever associated with the Atheist crowd?

How classy:

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/absentee/2008/aug/30/fowler-fouls-hurricane-is-gods-favor-to-dem/

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The faux-outrage here cracks me up; if the situation was reversed, how many people would bat an eye-lash if a Republican made an offhand comment, "Well, looks like God is on our side.."

After Focus on the Family had their ridiculous pray-for-rain request for Obama's speech, can you really blame anyone for pointing out the irony of the situation? This is how adults talk when they don't think they're being secretly recorded.

Since when was Moore ever associated with the Atheist crowd?I'm an Atheist and he speaks for me.
Like Jesse speaks for black people.

-ohbfrank- Just because Jesse is the King of Black People doesn't mean that his statements represent all of them. Of course, anybody who disagrees with him gets their nuts cut off, but still...

-ohbfrank- Just because Jesse is the King of Black People doesn't mean that his statements represent all of them. Of course, anybody who disagrees with him gets their nuts cut off, but still...

At least the Reverend Jackson takes a non-discriminatory stance in that opinion. :up:

I just heard about the former chairman make these comments. Not that I believe God in on either side, because they are both full of crap, but I sort of think that the hurricane actually helps the GOP more. It allows the post announcement excitement to be filled by something instead of fake pregnancy stories, it allows the federal government to hopefully be better prepared in handling the situation, and it allows the GOP to not have a full convention because you know theirs was going to blow compared to the DNC.

I am sure people are going to disagree with me, but this is how I am feeling right now.

I just heard about the former chairman make these comments. Not that I believe God in on either side, because they are both full of crap, but I sort of think that the hurricane actually helps the GOP more. It allows the post announcement excitement to be filled by something instead of fake pregnancy stories, it allows the federal government to hopefully be better prepared in handling the situation, and it allows the GOP to not have a full convention because you know theirs was going to blow compared to the DNC.

I am sure people are going to disagree with me, but this is how I am feeling right now.

You are probably right. On Cspan the chief of police talking about security. They already arrest some people that were going to attempt to harm people. This storm is going to prevent a lot of protest.

If there was wiretapping or hidden microphones in a hotel room or some sort of entrapment going on, then I'd agree with you.

but they had no expectation of privacy in that setting, so anything they say is fair game.

Oh I think it is fair game, just morally wrong. I feel the same about dog the bounty hunter, bush, randy road, and jessy jackson. All had conversations in places much more public than this but I still feel the same. I feel kind of sad that a person has to live with their guard up 24/7 every time they step out of the house.

You honestly don't find anything wrong with secretly recording people? You don't find it just a little deceitful even in a public place? I mean people say things they don't really mean when in a relaxed setting. I don't know it seems wrong to me.

You honestly don't find anything wrong with secretly recording people? You don't find it just a little deceitful even in a public place? I mean people say things they don't really mean when in a relaxed setting. I don't know it seems wrong to me.

It's really not that different than paparazzi taking pics of celebs in private moments. Like the paparazzi, it's not going away anytime soon. These people were careless to make these statements in a public place, but they were not the first and most definitely will not be the last.

Do many homes also have huge bolt cutters, caltrops and buckets of urine? You can have my bucket of urine when you pry it from my cold, dead, wet, hand.

I mean people say things they don't really mean when in a relaxed setting. I don't know it seems wrong to me.

And people (especially people who make lots of speeches in public) also say things they really DO mean when they think nobody is listening.

Oh I think it is fair game, just morally wrong. I feel the same about dog the bounty hunter, bush, randy road, and jessy jackson. All had conversations in places much more public than this but I still feel the same. I feel kind of sad that a person has to live with their guard up 24/7 every time they step out of the house.

You honestly don't find anything wrong with secretly recording people? You don't find it just a little deceitful even in a public place? I mean people say things they don't really mean when in a relaxed setting. I don't know it seems wrong to me.
It's called... integrity. When you have it, you don't have to live with your guard up 24/7, how you live in private is how you live in public.

How classy:

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/absentee/2008/aug/30/fowler-fouls-hurricane-is-gods-favor-to-dem/

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TrBus8ORR78&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TrBus8ORR78&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>Classy? Looks like they're flying coach! -eek-

Apology already:
Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Don Fowler apologized Sunday for recently joking Hurricane Gustav's expected landfall on the same day as the opening of the Republican National Convention suggested God was on the Democrats' side.

A YouTube video of the comments posted by the conservative blog RedState.org and showed Fowler joking with South Carolina Rep. John Spratt about the timing of the hurricane while on a flight from the Democratic National Convention back to South Carolina. The person who filmed the conversation is not identified.

“The hurricane is going to hit New Orleans about the time they start. The timing is, at least it appears now, it will be there Monday. That just demonstrates God is on our side,” Fowler said, while laughing. Fowler also told Spratt that “everything’s cool.”

Speaking to the Associated Press Sunday, Fowler said his comments were intended to make light of the late Rev. Jerry Falwell's remark that the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 was God's punishment for abortion and homosexuality.

On Sunday, Fowler told The Associated Press that he was making fun of comments made by the Rev. Jerry Falwell, who after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, said the attacks were God's punishment for abortion, homosexuality and other sins.

"I don't believe in a God that's vengeful," Fowler said. "I believe in a God that's compassionate."

"This is a point of national concern. I think everybody of good will has great empathy and sympathy for people in New Orleans," Fowler also said. "Most religious people are praying for people in New Orleans. There is no political connotation to this whatsoever. This was just poking fun at Jerry Falwell and the nonsensical thing he had said several years ago."

South Carolina GOP Chairman Katon Dawson sharply criticized Fowler's comments, saying, “The outrageous behavior of two of the Obama campaign's highest profile supporters in the south is despicable, a cynical polarization of life and death. I call on Barack Obama to immediately denounce Fowler and Spratt and demand sincere apologies from these members of the Democratic leadership.”

At least Michael Moore admitted that he now believes God exists.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20080830000004.aspx
“I was just thinking, this Gustav is proof that there is a God in heaven,”

That might hurt him with his smug atheist fans.

I saw this live. it was a strange show to begin with, and then Moore says that. I'm typically a fan of Moore's, but I that was pretty stupid.

Apology already:

True, but he still didn't take full responsibility for what he said:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/ex-dem-chair-ap.html

"One doesn't anticipate that one's private conversation will be surreptitiously taped by some right-wing nutcase," said Fowler. "But that's the nature of what we're dealing with."

You can have my bucket of urine when you pry it from my cold, dead, wet, hand.

You get it from your hand???

It's an anatomical MIIIIRRRAAACCCLLLLEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bmonkey:

True, but he still didn't take full responsibility for what he said:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/ex-dem-chair-ap.html

I also love how he describes it as a "facetious satire" of what Jerry Falwell said after 9/11. Note to Don: While Falwell was an asshat, he said what he said after it occurred. You, on the other hand, are eagerly anticipating the destruction caused by Hurricane Gustav for political gain and laughing about it. That makes you an Extra Special, Super Grade asshat.

It's called... integrity. When you have it, you don't have to live with your guard up 24/7, how you live in private is how you live in public.

So, you're saying politicians should keep their guard up, right?

It's called... integrity. When you have it, you don't have to live with your guard up 24/7, how you live in private is how you live in public.

It is about integrity and people that secretly tape people have none. I don't agree with your point at all. So you are saying people with a iron integrity never say things that other people will find wrong. For example maybe somebody just got dumped and they go on a rant about how they hate all women or all men. Would it be fair to judge their character on that one moment?

It's really not that different than paparazzi taking pics of celebs in private moments. Like the paparazzi, it's not going away anytime soon. These people were careless to make these statements in a public place, but they were not the first and most definitely will not be the last.

I agree it is no different than the paparazzi but I think those people are also evil. You are basically saying since the paparazzi are evil it is just fine if other people act like them.

These vultures were directly responsible for killing one of my personal heroes, Princess Dianna. I was hoping the public would rally against them but no instead the public wants to be just like them.

It is about integrity and people that secretly tape people have none.C'mon, it's not like this guy has a habit of randomly videotaping people talking on an airplane and just hit the jackpot this one time.

Are you telling me that if a democratic blogger was sitting behind a prominent republican who was making disparaging comments about Obama or Biden and pulled out their digicam and managed to capture them saying something even worse, you'd be railing against the blogger for being way out of line?

If you read the redstate blog, it mentions that Fowler and Spatt were making fun of Palin for several minutes, calling her "Dan Quayle on Steroids" and making other negative remarks. Those weren't captured on the video. Why not? Because those comments prompted the video.

It's not like these people are well known for making movies or simply for being well known. They are people who play a role in running the country. Most of what we know about all the people that run the country is based on what they want us to know. When politicians give speeches or make statements, they do so with the expectation that people are listening. They could be genuine, they could be completely two faced. I think that how politicians act when they think nobody else is listening says a lot more about who they are then the speeches they give when they think the entire world is listening.

Again, if the situations were reversed, and a democratic blogger happened to capture a prominent republican saying awful things, would you really ignore the republicans comments and try to shift the issue to the guy who wanted the whole country to hear what the republicans are like when they think nobody can hear them?

C'mon, it's not like this guy has a habit of randomly videotaping people talking on an airplane and just hit the jackpot this one time.

Are you telling me that if a democratic blogger was sitting behind a prominent republican who was making disparaging comments about Obama or Biden and pulled out their digicam and managed to capture them saying something even worse, you'd be railing against the blogger for being way out of line?

If you read the redstate blog, it mentions that Fowler and Spatt were making fun of Palin for several minutes, calling her "Dan Quayle on Steroids" and making other negative remarks. Those weren't captured on the video. Why not? Because those comments prompted the video.

It's not like these people are well known for making movies or simply for being well known. They are people who play a role in running the country. Most of what we know about all the people that run the country is based on what they want us to know. When politicians give speeches or make statements, they do so with the expectation that people are listening. They could be genuine, they could be completely two faced. I think that how politicians act when they think nobody else is listening says a lot more about who they are then the speeches they give when they think the entire world is listening.

Again, if the situations were reversed, and a democratic blogger happened to capture a prominent republican saying awful things, would you really ignore the republicans comments and try to shift the issue to the guy who wanted the whole country to hear what the republicans are like when they think nobody can hear them?

It would be just as wrong if the situations were reversed and just as evil. I'm sure there are many people that talk about obama using ****** but would never say that in public. It would be just as wrong to tape them in a private moment. Already stated I thought it was wrong to tape bush when he was at the private party.

I'm sure there are many people that talk about obama using ****** but would never say that in publicand who are those "many people?" average americans? or prominent politicians.

and taping these guys is now considered "evil?"

and who are those "many people?" average americans? or prominent politicians.

and taping these guys is now considered "evil?"

Both and secretly taping people is wrong. Maybe it isn't to you but I consider it wrong.

It is about integrity and people that secretly tape people have none. I don't agree with your point at all. So you are saying people with a iron integrity never say things that other people will find wrong. For example maybe somebody just got dumped and they go on a rant about how they hate all women or all men. Would it be fair to judge their character on that one moment?
I wouldn't expect you to agree. I'll bet Tim Russert would. ;)

Integrity is NOT about NOT saying something that other people will find wrong. You are confusing political correctness for integrity.

It is about saying and doing things that are consistent with what you believe. It is about doing and saying things regardless if anyone is watching or listening. It is your thoughts being consistent with your words which in turn are consistent with your actions. Whether or not there are witnesses is irrelevant.

Both things are about integrity. I never said one shouldn't be consistent in public and private. I said it was wrong to secretly tape people. It is also wrong to say being gay is wrong in public but talk about screwing your gay lover in private.

Integrity to me is having consistent moral code. I do not believe anyone taping someone else would like it if someone was taping.

I do not believe anyone taping someone else would like it if someone was taping.I think that the people most likely to get pissed that they were taped are pissed because of what they said in the tape.

If I was going to say something that I didn't want other people to hear, I wouldn't say it on a public airplane.

Don't write when you can speak.
Don't speak when you can nod.
Don't nod when you can wink.

-James Michael Curley, the Rascal King

why not?

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/story?id=5699123&page=1

Is the convention going on now?

Both things are about integrity. I never said one shouldn't be consistent in public and private. I said it was wrong to secretly tape people. It is also wrong to say being gay is wrong in public but talk about screwing your gay lover in private.

Integrity to me is having consistent moral code. I do not believe anyone taping someone else would like it if someone was taping.
"I feel kind of sad that a person has to live with their guard up 24/7 every time they step out of the house. "
That is what you said. I responded that a person with integrity doesn't have to worry about "living with their guard up".

You said that you don't agree with my point at all and then go on to agree. You just want to be disagreeable. :lol:

-----
And what if the person doing the taping doesn't mind if they themselves are being taped? Does that make it acceptable? That would be the "consistent moral code" that you are referring to.

So apparently some in the Democratic Party world are claiming God sent Gustav to hurt the Republicans and help the Democrats?

They were saying something about that on CNN this morning. "God is on the side of the DNC" was the moniker.

Since when was Moore ever associated with the Atheist crowd?

My syntax was poor. I meant the portion of his fans that are smug atheists.

So apparently some in the Democratic Party world are claiming God sent Gustav to hurt the Republicans and help the Democrats?

They were saying something about that on CNN this morning. "God is on the side of the DNC" was the moniker.

I don't think it's a big secret that Gustav is political gold for the DNC (and they know it). Every image of water folwing over a levee, is priceless. Of course, nobody want's to see a repeat of Katrina, but you'd be foolish to think the Democrats won't exploit this as another Bush/McCain failure. That and the fact Bush's "Global Warming" caused this.

I don't think it's a big secret that Gustav is political gold for the DNC (and they know it). Every image of water folwing over a levee, is priceless. Of course, nobody want's to see a repeat of Katrina, but you'd be foolish to think the Democrats won't exploit this as another Bush/McCain failure. That and the fact Bush's "Global Warming" caused this.

Sorry I still see this as a possible success for the GOP, assuming the levee's hold and with the storm being downgraded that could help, this will help some of the people look past katrina. I mean the govenor of Louisiana has been upfront on everything and I am sure that has helped his stock rise even more. So much that I think if McCain does lose he will be the front runner for 2012 on the GOP side.

Only the far left will try to pin this on Bush for "his" global warming.

Now with the Palin daughter pregnancy this will continue to get people talking about stupid stuff and not the policies of the actual people running for office. This election is going to be interesting, looks like the days of talking about actual policy issues are done.

Sorry I still see this as a possible success for the GOP, assuming the levee's hold and with the storm being downgraded that could help, this will help some of the people look past katrina. I mean the govenor of Louisiana has been upfront on everything and I am sure that has helped his stock rise even more. So much that I think if McCain does lose he will be the front runner for 2012 on the GOP side.

Only the far left will try to pin this on Bush for "his" global warming.

Now with the Palin daughter pregnancy this will continue to get people talking about stupid stuff and not the policies of the actual people running for office. This election is going to be interesting, looks like the days of talking about actual policy issues are done.

:lol:

Dude! He'll be 76 years old!!

That is so not going to happen.

If you read the redstate blog, it mentions that Fowler and Spatt were making fun of Palin for several minutes, calling her "Dan Quayle on Steroids" and making other negative remarks. Those weren't captured on the video. Why not? Because those comments prompted the video.
Thanks. I figured they must've been saying some other stupid shit to make the guy started taping them and I was wondering what was said.

I don't think it's a big secret that Gustav is political gold for the DNC (and they know it). Every image of water folwing over a levee, is priceless. Of course, nobody want's to see a repeat of Katrina, but you'd be foolish to think the Democrats won't exploit this as another Bush/McCain failure. That and the fact Bush's "Global Warming" caused this.

Whatever the general opinion, I don't see how this could be gold for the DNC. Everyone was prepared this time. Nagin got the people to safety; no Super Dome tragedy. Bush is no doubt standing ready to send federal relief as soon as the storm has cleared. No one has failed.

Democrats would be foolish to paint this as anything other than a success on all fronts.

--THX

:lol:

Dude! He'll be 76 years old!!

That is so not going to happen.

He was talking about Jindal.

Whatever the general opinion, I don't see how this could be gold for the DNC. Everyone was prepared this time. Nagin got the people to safety; no Super Dome tragedy. Bush is no doubt standing ready to send federal relief as soon as the storm has cleared. No one has failed.

Democrats would be foolish to paint this as anything other than a success on all fronts.--THX The way I see it is that even if everything about the hurricane relief effort falls into place this time, it's still a "can't win for tryin'" position to be in for the GOP. In fact, it would just a cause everyone to compare/contrast this effort with how badly it went in 2005 (non-election year).

He was talking about Jindal.

Gotcha.

The way I see it is that even if everything about the hurricane relief effort falls into place this time, it's still a "can't win for tryin'" position to be in for the GOP. In fact, it would just a cause everyone to compare/contrast this effort with how badly it went in 2005 (non-election year).Doesn't it seem that a "lessons learned" motif could be fashioned over the way that this has been handled? In addition, McCain (and Southern governors, primarily Jindal) can differentiate themselves from Bush by the preparation and consideration that has been placed on the potential storm damage including sympathy and relief for the affected people.

McCain's V-P pick confirms daughter is pregnant


US Republican vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin has confronted rumours circulating on the internet about her family by confirming that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant.

In a statement released by John McCain's campaign, the Alaskan Governor said her daughter Bristol Palin was about five months pregnant.

The statement asked the media to respect their daughter's privacy as has always been the tradition for children of candidates.

The McCain campaign said it was appalled by Democrat bloggers who accusing Sarah Palin of faking her own pregnancy.

The rumours claimed that Sarah Palin's fifth child, who was born recently, was in fact that of her daughter.

Campaign officials said Senator McCain knew of the daughter's pregnancy when he selected Sarah Palin as his vice-presidential running mate last week.

Tags: us-elections, 2008, united-states

McCain's V-P pick confirms daughter is pregnant


Yes, we know. The debate killed the VP thread and is taking over the President thread. In other news, Obama is appalled by the bloggers too.

Gotcha.

I figured you might have been joking and/or sarcastic, but your post wasn't funny and the sarcasm wasn't obvious, so I went with the obvious route.

McCain's V-P pick confirms daughter is pregnant

This matters to me about as much as Larry Craig's bathroom stance. I simply don't care. I quickly grew tired of that story, and if Palin's daughter having premarital sex is deemed a scandal worthy of revisiting time and time again, I will soon feel the same way towards this one.

--THX

This matters to me about as much as Larry Craig's bathroom stance. I simply don't care. I quickly grew tired of that story, and if Palin's daughter having premarital sex is deemed a scandal worthy of revisiting time and time again, I will soon feel the same way towards this one.
--THX
No one is saying that you SHOULD care.

Put on C-Span right now. Wow.

No one is saying that you SHOULD care.


Thank You.....

Put on C-Span right now. Wow.

which one I have 3 of them.

Put on C-Span right now. Wow.

Um ... OK. Crazy Green Party Vice Presidential candidate protesting the Republicans. Why is this "Wow" worthy?

No one is saying that you SHOULD care.

What I'm saying is that the media tends to run these things into the ground, and it quickly becomes annoying with repeated coverage. Palin's daughter's pregnancy simply should not be a big issue to anyone but the family, and I'm hoping it's not turned into one.

--THX

What I'm saying is that the media tends to run these things into the ground, and it quickly becomes annoying with repeated coverage. Palin's daughter's pregnancy simply should not be a big issue to anyone but the family, and I'm hoping it's not turned into one.

--THX

Agreed, family business should be kept in the family ..... but it does raise the question about the effectiveness of teaching <i>abstinence</i> as the primary form of sex education while not offering information on the use of condoms as a means of avoiding pregnancy and STDs.

If Palin and McCain's people had just mentioned the pregnancy the very day Palin was picked this wouldn't be half as big a story. But they held it back and of course it bit them in the ass. It isn't that big a factor but it's enough to make me wonder what else they're keeping from us. Nothing is private when you're running for president/vice president, sorry to say.

If Palin and McCain's people had just mentioned the pregnancy the very day Palin was picked this wouldn't be half as big a story. But they held it back and of course it bit them in the ass. It isn't that big a factor but it's enough to make me wonder what else they're keeping from us. Nothing is private when you're running for president/vice president, sorry to say.
Held it back? She was picked on 8/29 and they came out with the pregnancy on 9/1. I don't think it would've been wise for McCain to be like "My VP pick is Sarah Palin. Her teen daughter is pregnant!" And as has been mentioned, the pregnancy was apparently no secret in their hometown. There's no coverup here.

But it just goes to show you how moronic McCain was with his VP pick. He didn't even know this woman.

Oh, I'm sorry, everything McCain does his good, he was just being a maverick. :rolleyes:

So the morning news show I'm watching, a local <b>FOX</b> affiliate BTW, seems to be reporting that Day 1 of the RNC was a bit of BUST.

So the morning news show I'm watching, a local <b>FOX</b> affiliate BTW, seems to be reporting that Day 1 of the RNC was a bit of BUST.
It was so scaled back because of Gustav. Kind of took the air out of the festivities. They did the right thing though holding back, so it was just bad timing on the part of the hurricane. I'm sure they will make up for it the rest of the week.

It was so scaled back because of Gustav. Kind of took the air out of the festivities. They did the right thing though holding back, so it was just bad timing on the part of the hurricane. I'm sure they will make up for it the rest of the week.


Yeah, I agree it was the right thing to do. Because you know they would get crap if they didn't. I also think Dubya not showing up was a WIN WIN on many levels. :D

What I'm saying is that the media tends to run these things into the ground, and it quickly becomes annoying with repeated coverage. Palin's daughter's pregnancy simply should not be a big issue to anyone but the family, and I'm hoping it's not turned into one.

--THX

The controversy (if you want to call it that) and media nonsense is not over the teenager. It's over the recklessness of McCain's pick and the subsequent astonishment of most political circles.

But it just goes to show you how moronic McCain was with his VP pick. He didn't even know this woman.

Oh, I'm sorry, everything McCain does his good, he was just being a maverick. :rolleyes:

:confused:

Is there any evidence McCain didn't know about the pregnancy?

Are you suggesting that her daughter being pregnant would make her inelligible to be VP?

McCain does a lot of wrong, but I dont know Palin's daughter getting pregnant can be blamed on him

:confused:

McCain does a lot of wrong, but I dont know Palin's daughter getting pregnant can be blamed on him

I don't know man, clearly McCain likes 'em young...

Oh, I'm sorry, everything McCain does his good, he was just being a maverick.
:lol:
I think something is wrong with your reception. I don't know a single person who thinks that everything McCain does is good. I think that far more people feel that about his opposition, and I think that is a dangerous thing to believe about any candidate.

Agreed, family business should be kept in the family ..... but it does raise the question about the effectiveness of teaching <i>abstinence</i> as the primary form of sex education while not offering information on the use of condoms as a means of avoiding pregnancy and STDs.That's my interest in this as well...whether or not Palin has changed her stance on this issue. One of the biggest problems with Bush was his inability to learn from his mistakes, so it would be nice to see if his successors (R or D) are a little more dynamic in their leadership style.

Best happening of the year for the Repubs - Gustav.

:lol:
I think something is wrong with your reception. I don't know a single person who thinks that everything McCain does is good. I think that far more people feel that about his opposition, and I think that is a dangerous thing to believe about any candidate.

Have you been watching the news the last couple of days? almost all of the Republican pundits have been saying this about McCain. It's the extreme right that claims that people think that Obama is some kind of messiah. The difference is, Obama isn't running an ad campaign around that perception.

:confused:

Is there any evidence McCain didn't know about the pregnancy?

Is there any evidence that he did?

Are you suggesting that her daughter being pregnant would make her inelligible to be VP?

There's no law that I know of that says she can't be VP. but this situation does not help McCain at all.

McCain does a lot of wrong, but I dont know Palin's daughter getting pregnant can be blamed on him

Who said I thought that? I'm just saying he didn't do his homework.

Is there any evidence that he did?

he said he knew. he could be lying, but there is no proof either way other than all the reports saying that the pregnancy wasn't a secret in her hometown. You don't think a major political parties vetting process would find that out?

he said he knew. he could be lying, but there is no proof either way other than all the reports saying that the pregnancy wasn't a secret in her hometown. You don't think a major political parties vetting process would find that out?

I'm not saying he didn't know necessarily, I'm saying he didn't do his homework. He didn't think this could be an issue? It's going to be news, considering no one knows a thing about this woman, who could be a heartbeat away from being our president.

I'm not saying he didn't know necessarily, I'm saying he didn't do his homework. He didn't think this could be an issue? It's going to be news, considering no one knows a thing about this woman, who could be a heartbeat away from being our president.
If you are going to eliminate a candidate because their family members do dumb stuff, you won't have any.

If you are going to eliminate a candidate because their family members do dumb stuff, you won't have any.

She does plenty of stupid stuff on her own. She flies on an hours long plane ride after her water breaks. She's under investigation for abuse of executive power.

She does plenty of stupid stuff on her own. She flies on an hours long plane ride after her water breaks. She's under investigation for abuse of executive power.
If the facts of the case of her abuse of executive power are all known, then that is an abuse of power people will support. The hours long plane ride is one of the most weak criticisms I have ever read of a Vice Presidential candidate. It is utterly unimportant.

She does plenty of stupid stuff on her own. <b>She flies on an hours long plane ride after her water breaks. </b>She's under investigation for abuse of executive power.

Oh the humanity!! :lol:

Can I just say that "a heartbeat away from the presidency" is now the most overused phrase in the history of the planet?

Can I just say that "a heartbeat away from the presidency" is now the most overused phrase in the history of the planet?O rly?

If the facts of the case of her abuse of executive power are all known, then that is an abuse of power people will support. The hours long plane ride is one of the most weak criticisms I have ever read of a Vice Presidential candidate. It is utterly unimportant.

unimportant? do you know anything about pregnancy?

Can I just say that "a heartbeat away from the presidency" is now the most overused phrase in the history of the planet?

after "maverick," yes.

Those of you concerned with overused phrases during this election: thanks for your straight talk. I hope this is something that can change together, my friends. 9/11.

unimportant? do you know anything about pregnancy?

How about me? (currently 9 months pregnant)

If you are not group b strep positive, and your water LEAKS (as the statements about hers have been) you and your baby are not in any immediate danger. Her doctor gave her the ok to fly. Water breaking doesn't always = the gush of niagara. That's where the risk of prolapsed cord comes into play. And infection is only a risk if you have group b strep or you allow someone to give you a vaginal exam. I'm sure she was fine.

Worst case, she delivers the baby on the plane. Do you know how many women give birth at HOME? :eek: OMG! How dare these women shrug off the consumerism applied to birthing these days!!!

unimportant? do you know anything about pregnancy?
As much as an average dude with 2 young kids and a wife who is extremely interested in birth and wanting to become a doula.
How about me? (currently 9 months pregnant)

If you are not group b strep positive, and your water LEAKS (as the statements about hers have been) you and your baby are not in any immediate danger. Her doctor gave her the ok to fly. Water breaking doesn't always = the gush of niagara. That's where the risk of prolapsed cord comes into play. And infection is only a risk if you have group b strep or you allow someone to give you a vaginal exam. I'm sure she was fine.

Worst case, she delivers the baby on the plane. Do you know how many women give birth at HOME? :eek: OMG! How dare these women shrug off the consumerism applied to birthing these days!!!
You and my wife should get together. Completely off topic: have you seen the business of being born? Pretty good documentary (although not very even handed)

Yep I've seen it :D I also love Ina May's book.

I hope to talk my hubby into a home birth next time around, but he's a bit cautious this time as this is our first.

Better watch out, someone's gonna tell us to get a nursery again soon! :D

How about me? (currently 9 months pregnant)

If you are not group b strep positive, and your water LEAKS (as the statements about hers have been) you and your baby are not in any immediate danger. Her doctor gave her the ok to fly.

Worst case, she delivers the baby on the plane. Do you know how many women give birth at HOME? :eek: OMG! How dare these women shrug off the consumerism applied to birthing these days!!!

Leaking or broken, either one carries the risk for infection. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists advises against flying after 36 weeks. And she kept her condition a secret from the airline because she was afraid they wouldn't let her on the plane. Yeah, you think?

I'm not saying he didn't know necessarily, I'm saying he didn't do his homework. He didn't think this could be an issue? It's going to be news, considering no one knows a thing about this woman, who could be a heartbeat away from being our president.

the daughter's pregnancy won't be an issue.

:lol:
The desperation of the left and the media is extremely joyful to behold. Obama's cultish followers are running scared.

wanting to become a doula.

you need a license or certification to do that? nah, didn't think so.

the daughter's pregnancy won't be an issue.

It certainly doesn't help.

:lol:
The desperation of the left and the media is extremely joyful to behold. Obama's cultish followers are running scared.Given that he's opened up a big lead in nearly every poll that's come out over the past few days, I really have to doubt your connection with reality right now.

It certainly doesn't help.

i agree with you there (although politico disagrees). but in a week people will have forgot about it. mccain's campaign probably realized this and therefore didn't care about the pregnancy

Those of you concerned with overused phrases during this election: thanks for your straight talk. I hope this is something that can change together, my friends. 9/11.

You know, there were no overused phrases during John McCain's five and a half years as a POW.

:lol:
The desperation of the left and the media is extremely joyful to behold. Obama's cultish followers are running scared.

Yeah, they sure are. Mentioning running away why haven't we seen McCain's VP out and about talking to the press letting the public get to know her?

You know, there were no overused phrases during John McCain's five and a half years as a POW."Silent majority" and "Peace with honor" weren't overused? :hscratch:

;)

the daughter's pregnancy won't be an issue.
Not directly. But again, this claim that Palin "has it all together", exhibits conservative Christian values, and has managed to balance being a mom and a governor is a bit of a stretch given that news. We don't know Bristol's birthdate, but it is possible that she became pregnant at 16. If Palin was a liberal democrat, conservatives would be questioning just how involved she was in her daughter's life.

It's not about being perfect. Stuff happens. And it isn't just this one issue. I guarantee that if a liberal democrat woman gave birth to a special needs child and was back at work 3 days later, conservatives would be trashing that woman as being uncaring.

Leaving a 3 day old newborn to voluntarily go back to work is not part of any conservative Christian value that I know of.

On the O'Reilly Factor yesterday, Laura Ingraham answered the question that no one here wanted to answer... and that was "Is Sarah Palin the most qualified/experienced woman in the Republican party to be selected for VP? Is there a republican woman with more experience that could've been chosen instead?" Ingraham stated that Palin IS the most experienced republican woman. That says something about the Republican party.

Having said that, Palin's personal decisions to go back to work 3 days after giving birth, her 17 yr old daughter's pregnancy, and any other family matter would NOT be an issue if she wasn't being touted for her "family values".

McCain slammed Obama for his judgment and experience. He put them on the table. He now has to deal with the boomerang effect.

Given that he's opened up a big lead in nearly every poll that's come out over the past few days, I really have to doubt your connection with reality right now.

It isn't a matter of the present but they know the damage that their kook base is going to do with women when they attack her(esp. after the way women feel Hillary was (mis)treated by the Obama campaign during the primaries).

Leaking or broken, either one carries the risk for infection. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists advises against flying after 36 weeks. And she kept her condition a secret from the airline because she was afraid they wouldn't let her on the plane. Yeah, you think?

*risk of infection comes from group b strep. Do you know if she had it? If not, so long as you keep your finger out of your vagina - there is NO risk of infection.

*perhaps you missed the point about her doctor giving her the OK?

And ACOG advises against... are they now the law? Besides, the baby was a month early. Do you know what week that would make her? ;)

Again - HOW DARE women have minds of their own!!!

Keep on acting like this is a major issue though. It's quite funny for someone who is actually pregnant and has obviously researched way more than you :p

I'm guessing you missed that story about Obama picking up more Hillary supporters? :lol:

Who makes Ingraham the expert?

What about Hutchinson? Snowe? Just because she thought Palin was the most experienced, doesn't mean it is true.


I see what you're saying about family values. I'm betting most of the people who spout that will overlook it. I'm not saying you're not right about the double standard, but it is there and they won't care that she left the baby (some might, but it'll be a few).

Leaking or broken, either one carries the risk for infection. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists advises against flying after 36 weeks. And she kept her condition a secret from the airline because she was afraid they wouldn't let her on the plane. Yeah, you think?
She didn't have to keep her condition a "secret" from the airline. Alaskan airlines has no regulation against pregnant women flying.

Who makes Ingraham the expert?

What about Hutchinson? Snowe? Just because she thought Palin was the most experienced, doesn't mean it is true.
That's the problem with the question. One person's idea of who is or isn't "qualified" to be president (or VP) can be totally different from the next. The qualifications are laid out in the Constitution. Everything else is subjective.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13068.html


Obama's bounce smaller than others
By: David Paul Kuhn
September 2, 2008 10:16 AM EST

Barack Obama’s post-Democratic National Convention bounce in the polls appears to be slightly smaller than the norm of past conventions, and it's gradually depreciating.

The Gallup daily tracking poll has found that since the conclusion of the convention, Obama has risen 4 percentage points in the polls, to lead McCain 49 percent to 43 percent today. That's a slightly smaller uptick in the polls than the 5- to 6-point bounce earned by a typical party nominee, by Gallup’s measure, since 1964. Obama and McCain were evenly split at 45 percentage points apiece prior to the Democratic convention, according to Gallup.

That outcome comes despite Obama’s speech before more than 80,000 people at Invesco Field in Denver on Thursday night, a political event that was also seen by about 40 million television viewers. It also comes as the Republican convention quietly got under way in St. Paul, and the national media gaze focuses southward to Hurricane Gustav.

Daily tracking polls by Gallup and Rasmussen Reports demonstrate that Obama has taken his greatest lead since July, if not the general election. But while Obama’s support remains significantly stronger than weeks ago, it appears that the post-convention bounce he earned may have already peaked.

On Saturday, Gallup reported Obama was ahead by 8 percentage points. By Monday, that lead had shrunk to 5 points. Rasmussen pegs Obama’s standing as relatively stable in recent days, with a 49 percent to 46 percent lead over McCain when “leaners” are included, a small but statistically insignificant improvement for McCain of 1 percentage point since Saturday.

CBS News reported Monday that Obama is now ahead in its poll, 48 to 40 percent, a 3-point uptick in Obama’s standing compared to its poll prior to the Democratic convention. Obama’s 3-point bounce exceeds that of John F. Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee in 2004 who did not rise in the polls following his convention. But Obama’s bounce is less than a third of what Al Gore received in 2000 and Bill Clinton received in 1992. Even Bob Dole, following the 1996 Republican convention, received a 4-point bounce in the polls, 1 point more than Obama.

But any Obama bounce, if it is sustained, could be said to be a victory for Democrats. In the days since Obama gave his address, the news cycles have been captured by the unveiling of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as John McCain's running mate, the opening of the Republican convention and the threat posed by Hurricane Gustav.

There have been only three previous back-to-back conventions, most recently in 1956. The effect of the GOP convention on the polls will not be known for days.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll and a Zogby Interactive flash poll, both completed over the weekend, have found the presidential race is in a dead heat. According to both polls, Obama attained no statistically significant convention bounce.

Whether Obama is ahead or tied with McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee will now come into the Republican convention with his best opportunity yet to break through his own ceiling and take a lead in the presidential race.

This is what I mean.

And McCain doesn't need to pick up every Hillary supporter to derail the Messiah, just 20-30%(by my guess).

On the O'Reilly Factor yesterday, Laura Ingraham answered the question that no one here wanted to answer... and that was "Is Sarah Palin the most qualified/experienced woman in the Republican party to be selected for VP? Is there a republican woman with more experience that could've been chosen instead?" Ingraham stated that Palin IS the most experienced republican woman. That says something about the Republican party.Ingraham doesn't believe that (or at least I hope she doesn't). But she certainly wants McCain to be elected and now is not the time for her to be overly critical. :)

In an earlier post, bhk spoke of the desperation of Obama supporters in raising this story. But it seems to me both sides are being desperate when it comes to Palin: witness the trumpeting of Alaska's proximity to Russia as a demonstration of her "foreign policy" experience.

I agree with Groucho. :eek:

Same goes for McCain saying that she has as much experience as Obama.

Who makes Ingraham the expert?

What about Hutchinson? Snowe? Just because she thought Palin was the most experienced, doesn't mean it is true.
I believe that Palin is hardly the most experience woman in the party, and she isn't qualified to be VP, period. I agree that Snowe and Hutchison are two highly qualified alternatives. But no Republican official or Republican party faithful is acknowledging that. So the fact that Ingraham is a very vocal and visible person and agrees with virtually 100% of the other Republicans on the air (or in this forum) makes her an expert.


I see what you're saying about family values. I'm betting most of the people who spout that will overlook it. I'm not saying you're not right about the double standard, but it is there and they won't care that she left the baby (some might, but it'll be a few).
True. I'm just providing the context in which her daughter's pregnancy might/should be an issue.

Same goes for McCain saying that she has as much experience as Obama.
Oh please. I heard Obama trying to say he has experience with budgets because he "runs" his campaign. :rolleyes:

Not to mention that Palin fires up the base like McCain never had (or will). Republicans that were going to hold their nose and vote McCain now are actually donating (then will hold their nose and vote McCain).
In an earlier post, bhk spoke of the desperation of Obama supporters in raising this story. But it seems to me both sides are being desperate when it comes to Palin: witness the trumpeting of Alaska's proximity to Russia as a demonstration of her "foreign policy" experience.
As opposed to Obama's experience which is going on a trip and meeting rulers? Seriously, a governor has more executive experience by definition than a Senator. And it isn't just proximity, her govt. probably has negotiated trade agreements, joint law enforcement policies etc. with Russia and Canada. Besides what good is a large amount of experience like Biden when it is frequently wrong?

Ingraham doesn't believe that (or at least I hope she doesn't). But she certainly wants McCain to be elected and now is not the time for her to be overly critical. :)
Whether she believes it or not, she said it. So has every other Republican talking head. So has virtually every Republican in this forum. People becoming Palindrones is no more acceptable than people becoming obamatized.


In an earlier post, bhk spoke of the desperation of Obama supporters in raising this story. But it seems to me both sides are being desperate when it comes to Palin: witness the trumpeting of Alaska's proximity to Russia as a demonstration of her "foreign policy" experience.
Absolutely... everything related to Palin's selection smacks of desperation.... on both sides.

I don't think Alaska can negotiate trade agreements with foreign countries

you need a license or certification to do that? nah, didn't think so.
One online class isn't good enough for you? Such an elitist ;) Seriously though, if her doctor ok'd it, why is it such a display of idiocy to you?

As opposed to Obama's experience which is going on a trip and meeting rulers? Seriously, a governor has more executive experience by definition than a Senator. And it isn't just proximity, her govt. probably has negotiated trade agreements, joint law enforcement policies etc. with Russia and Canada.
If you honestly believe that then you should start a movement to reverse the ticket.

I believe that Palin is hardly the most experience woman in the party, and she isn't qualified to be VP, period. I agree that Snowe and Hutchison are two highly qualified alternatives. But no Republican official or Republican party faithful is acknowledging that.
Barney Frank is more "qualified" to be president than Obama. That doesn't mean the democrats want him to run for that position.

If you honestly believe that then you should start a movement to reverse the ticket.

Why? That would be fruitless. I was never enthusiastic about McCain and didn't want him to be the nominee. Having Palin on the ticket might get me to donate money instead of ripping up every piece of mail from the RNC asking for money.

I'm guessing you missed that story about Obama picking up more Hillary supporters? :lol:

I submit it is not 'Hillary' supporters that will matter. There really weren't that many relative to the general electorate that hadn't already moved on to Senator Obama. Now, those non-Hillary supporting women may also move towards the junior Senator from Illinois, but I don't think we have seen that yet.

For what it's worth.

Not to mention that Palin fires up the base like McCain never had (or will). Republicans that were going to hold their nose and vote McCain now are actually donating (then will hold their nose and vote McCain).
Which is exactly why he chose her instead of Lieberman or Romney.

*risk of infection comes from group b strep. Do you know if she had it? If not, so long as you keep your finger out of your vagina - there is NO risk of infection.

There's ALWAYS a risk, no matter if you think you are "clean."

*perhaps you missed the point about her doctor giving her the OK?

And ACOG advises against... are they now the law? Besides, the baby was a month early. Do you know what week that would make her? ;)

That all depends on what you consider a month. Preterm is between 20 to 37 weeks. So she fit the bill against flying.

Again - HOW DARE women have minds of their own!!!

How dare she not be a responsible mother to be?

Keep on acting like this is a major issue though. It's quite funny for someone who is actually pregnant and has obviously researched way more than you :p

Actually, I got an A in OB last semester. I know all about pregnancy.

It's better to be safe than sorry.

Barney Frank is more "qualified" to be president than Obama. That doesn't mean the democrats want him to run for that position.
You missed the point. Your statement implies that there is an acknowledgment that Frank is more qualified. There is no acknowledgment of Snowe's and Hutchison's superior qualifications on the Republican side.

She didn't have to keep her condition a "secret" from the airline. Alaskan airlines has no regulation against pregnant women flying.

She said she didn't try to hide it but didn't feel a need to alert the airline, either.http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html

the airline at least needs to know.

Actually, I got an A in OB last semester.Is this some sort of euphemism used to brag about your sexual exploits in college?

Seriously though, if her doctor ok'd it, why is it such a display of idiocy to you?

Because her reasoning behind that decision was her husband saying "a 'fish-picker' couldn't be born in Texas." :rolleyes: Way to take parenting seriously.

There's ALWAYS a risk, no matter if you think you are "clean."

That all depends on what you consider a month. Preterm is between 20 to 37 weeks. So she fit the bill against flying.

How dare she not be a responsible mother to be?

Actually, I got an A in OB last semester. I know all about pregnancy.

It's better to be safe than sorry.
What an irresponsible mother to be. Doesn't she know that if you get in a car accident, your baby can be severely injured? How dare she get in a car while pregnant? After all, it is better to be safe than sorry. Clearly she is unfit for any elected position.

Leaking or broken, either one carries the risk for infection. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists advises against flying after 36 weeks. And she kept her condition a secret from the airline because she was afraid they wouldn't let her on the plane. Yeah, you think?

Wasn't she like a month early, so well short of 36 weeks?

Is this some sort of euphemism used to brag about your sexual exploits in college?

:lol: I wish that were the case.

http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html

the airline at least needs to know.
From your link:
Alaska Airlines has no such rule and leaves the decision to the woman and her doctor, said spokeswoman Caroline Boren.

Because her reasoning behind that decision was her husband saying "a 'fish-picker' couldn't be born in Texas." :rolleyes: Way to take parenting seriously.
You are right. Women never make irrational decisions when they are pregnant.

Wasn't she like a month early, so well short of 36 weeks?
Don't confuse him with numbers.

What an irresponsible mother to be. Doesn't she know that if you get in a car accident, your baby can be severely injured? How dare she get in a car while pregnant? After all, it is better to be safe than sorry. Clearly she is unfit for any elected position.

There's no way to avoid a car accident if it's going to happen. But you can avoid flying on a plane when you really don't have to.

There's no way to avoid a car accident if it's going to happen. But you can avoid flying on a plane when you really don't have to.
She could walk. How else is she going to get her figure back if not through exercise? ;)

Wasn't she like a month early, so well short of 36 weeks?

depends on what you consider a month.

37 to 42 weeks is term, so no, she was not short 36 weeks.

There's ALWAYS a risk, no matter if you think you are "clean."

I'm sorry- do you have a vagina? You must not understand the way it works. Poor guy... :p Stuff flows DOWN and out of a vagina unless you push it back UP (like you would by inserting a finger).


That all depends on what you consider a month. Preterm is between 20 to 37 weeks. So she fit the bill against flying.
Due date was in May. EDD is 40 weeks. If you're a month early you are somewhere right around 36 weeks. Surely they taught that in your OB class?


How dare she not be a responsible mother to be? yeah, how irresponsible of her to contact her doctor and get his/her OK!!!



Actually, I got an A in OB last semester. I know all about pregnancy.

It's better to be safe than sorry.

I sure hope OB is more than one semester. And let me know which college you go to, because anyone that would give you an A, is somewhere I know I don't want my OB to have gotten their degree from. ;)

And if she had stayed in Texas, how long would you have advised her against flying with a preemie newborn?

Would she have had to be the govenor of Alaska in exile?

More bluntly, was the bun safer in the oven, or in the dirty interior of airplane. You know, it is a long car ride from Texas to Alaska.

42 weeks is term, so no.

Oh my GOD. rotfl

Seriously, let us know which college you're attending that would give you an A. :lol:

Hint: you might want to at least google before saying these things. ;)

You are considered FULL TERM at 37-38 weeks. Your estimated due date is exactly 40 weeks from your last period.

Maybe you just didn't do so well in math though. That's ok.
;)

You missed the point. Your statement implies that there is an acknowledgment that Frank is more qualified. There is no acknowledgment of Snowe's and Hutchison's superior qualifications on the Republican side.
My statement implies that I acknowledge that Frank is more qualified than Obama. I haven't heard any acknowledgment from the Dems that Obama isn't the most qualified person from their party (at least not since Hillary and Bill "saw the light").

Leaking or broken, either one carries the risk for infection. Her doctor must have known her risk for infection was low since he/she gave her the ok.
The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists advises against flying after 36 weeks.
This is where math helps. EDD= 40 weeks. If you are a month early you are somewhere around 36 weeks. And as I mentioned before, they ADVISE, they don't lay down the law. :rolleyes:

And she kept her condition a secret from the airline because she was afraid they wouldn't let her on the plane. Yeah, you think?
As someone else pointed out, Alaska Airlines doesn't have a policy against pregnant women flying.

There, now all your points of disgust with her have been debunked. Can we move on to something else?

Oh my GOD. rotfl

Seriously, let us know which college you're attending that would give you an A. :lol:

Hint: you might want to at least google before saying these things. ;)

You are considered FULL TERM at 37-38 weeks. Your estimated due date is exactly 40 weeks from your last period.

Maybe you just didn't do so well in math though. That's ok.
;)

So you know when her last period was? or that she's on a regular cycle.

rotfl ok now you're really grasping so I'll just let you sink.

I'm glad YOU know when her last period was, as I'm sure she and her doctor must have been completely ignorant.

rotfl ok now you're really grasping so I'll just let you sink.

I'm glad YOU know when her last period was, as I'm sure she and her doctor must have been completely ignorant.

Honey