I figured it was time for a fresh start for our general comic discussion, since the last "monthly" one took us through most of Spring. Summer is (un)officially here! Let's generally discuss comics!

Anything big happening this summer? I bet there's a major crossover or two...right? The only new stuff I am looking forward to is the new Ambush Bug mini series in July.

There's new Ambush Bug coming? Is it Giffen/Flemming?

Yup! I can't wait to see what they come up with. Here's the info from the solicitation:

AMBUSH BUG: YEAR NONE #1
Written by Keith Giffen & Robert Loren Fleming
Art by Giffen & Al Milgrom
Cover by J.H. Williams III
Variant cover by Giffen
The wait is over — everyone's favorite Bug is back, courtesy of the original AMBUSH BUG team of Keith Giffen and Robert Loren Fleming! Cities will be destroyed! Cats and dogs will live in sin! Every unanswered question of the DC Universe will be answered! Live heroes will die and dead heroes will live! Okay, none of that actually happens, but join us anyway for this totally irreverent romp through the DC Universe as only Ambush Bug could give you!
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers. For every 10 copies of the Standard Edition (with a cover by J.H. Williams), retailers may order one copy of the Variant Edition (with a cover by Keith Giffen). Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale July 23 • 1 of 6 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US

Ambush Bug rocks!

Dare we hope that the original Ambush Bug stories will be reprinted? DC, my money is yours for the taking. You know what you have to do to get it.

June is the first month I'll be officially subscribed to any comics. Getting all my stuff from Midtown comics.

Right now my list is just everything Batman related and one Spider-Man.

I'll be checking out Final Crisis. I enjoyed the heck out of the first issue even though it was completely non-accessible to anyone other than longtime DCU readers. Hopefully, this get the DCU back on track after miscues with Infinite Crisis, 52, and Countdown.

I'm passing on Final Crisis, as I haven't been reading comics for years. Don't see the point reading something that is going to just confuse me. I'll spend the next few months catching up on trades and reading stuff that happened, then when Final Crisis trade comes out, I'll read it and maybe be ready for the next big event.

Kick Ass #3

Are all comic writers tortured ex-nerds who can't cope with urban life? that seems to be the running theme in yet another book where Mark Miller has written himself in as the hero. It's not that I don't find this cathartic release through the artistic medium cheap or ineffectual in exposing the inner turmoil of a writer; the JMS Amazing Spider-man "Columbine" story certainly touched a nerve.

The first issue of this comic set up a brilliant premise, a boy in pursuit of superheroics that finds reality much uglier than comics present it; perhaps being raised on a steady diet of force-fed fiction so fantastically realized it substitutes the boundaries of reality that even our own imagination can muster, he must learn harsh truths first hand. Halfway through issue two, however, our sympathy for the protagonist vanishes when the basis of the book's reality suddenly does an about face. This is no longer a tough lesson in development of character and morality; it's yet another dumbed-down jockstrap violent macho-boy comedy. This issue fuels the further descent of this story into outright idiocy, losing all of its potential for intelligent storytelling.

What Mark Millar really needs is a story editor. He has too many ideas here and most of them have all the heart of someone sitting at a computer masturbating to pornography.

I knew it - I'm not surprised at what happened, I'm just surprised Marvel was cheap enough to go there.
[major Secret Invasion spoiler]
Soon as I heard the concept behind Secret Invasion, Tony Stark was the first character I thought of to have been a Skrull. But I never thought they'd go through with that just because it was so cheap and/or obvious. So did the brass at Marvel consider him as a secret Skrull when they planed Civil War? 'Cause I guess now he's absolved of all his tomfoolery. I mean, sure, I hated the character after Civil War, but this method of absolving him is so cheap, that... I don't know - fuck it, it's just comics...

Wow... I thought (in interviews or something) that they said that was the one character who absolutely was not.

I knew I wasn't crazy:

Asked about whether Secret Invasion will be able to redeem Tony Stark? Brevoort:
Iron Man's a more interesting character right now. "I think what has always made Iron Man a unique character is that he'll do whatever it takes to get that job done and make that stuff happen," he said, adding a promise that fans will not find out in Secret Invasion that Stark was a Skrull. "That would be an enormous cheat," he said. "So I'll tell you right up front now, he's not a Skrull."

from http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=128594

Wow... I thought (in interviews or something) that they said that was the one character who absolutely was not.
Well...
They don't come out and say he's a Skrull, and he's totally unaware of being anyone other than Tony Stark. It's just that he's told by the Skrull queen that his "work on Earth is done" and that he'll go down in Skrull history as the greatest soldier they've ever had. And she then calls herself his queen, and that he's saved his people by turning the heroes against each other. Oh, and she calls him "Kr'Ali". So even if he's not an out and out Skrull they've certainly manipulated and used him - same diff.

Well...
They don't come out and say he's a Skrull, and he's totally unaware of being anyone other than Tony Stark. It's just that he's told by the Skrull queen that his "work on Earth is done" and that he'll go down in Skrull history as the greatest soldier they've ever had. And she then calls herself his queen, and that he's saved his people by turning the heroes against each other. Oh, and she calls him "Kr'Ali". So even if he's not an out and out Skrull they've certainly manipulated and used him - same diff.

Well, the point Brevoort was making was that they weren't going to use this skrull crap to "redeem" the character of Stark by giving him an easy out for all the crappy decisions he made leading up to and after Civil War. So even if they don't outright violate what he said, this violates what the point he was trying to make. Hopefully that's just a swerve, otherwise Brevoort was outright lying, a last minute change was made, or they didn't have this all planned out when they started.

I guess I'll find out in a few months when they collect this invasion arc into a tpb.

That's typical of these big crossovers nowadays. Were you expected them to honestly and truly make earth shattering changes to these characters?

I dunno... it's only the 3rd issue (out of 8! collect 'em all!!1!) so I imagine a few curves will be tossed out. Overall, I'm (so far) enjoying this as a massive crossover than the past few - but I'm always optimistic about these things.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a142/Bronkster/SkrullrBanana.gif

I think it's too much to ask that the big two make any sense anymore. You can just enjoy it on an absurdist level.

Originally posted this in the old thread by accident:

Ok, so got my last month's batch of comics and trades... yay, no more Supergirl! Teen Titans still bites, though.

JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #21: decent issue, though the arrogance of the "Big 3" kinda surprises me... having them be the masterminds behind the league made sense maybe in pre-Crisis days, but post-Crisis, aren't all three about the same, experience-wise, as a lot of the other heroes on the roster?

TEEN TITANS #59: I guess Morrison's version of the New Gods is now canon. Other than that... meh.

I'm about halfway through COUNTDOWN TO FINAL CRISIS TP VOL 01. They priced it pretty reasonably. The cover has some blurb from a review about how it's amazing the kind of talent they put together for the book... the writers, maybe, but the art is hit and very, very miss at times. I realize it's a weekly book, but geez. Like 52, it's like a condensed version of the "important stuff" happening in the rest of the DC Universe, with some side stories about relatively minor characters sprinkled in. I don't think it works as well as 52, mainly because it's happening in real time, and if someone were to just read this book and not the other DC series, they'd feel lost and/or like they missed out on the best parts. Which may be by design, as I'm sure it helps sell books. But it just does not work when read by itself, sequentially, because you have these big gaps in continuity that are briefly touched upon. For instance, if not for reading JLA and JSA, there's no way I'd be able to make heads or tails of why Karate Kid fought Batman, then got put behind bars, then got released.

Still have yet to read:
LEGION OF SUPER HEROES #42
JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA #15: always the last monthly I read, because it's always my favorite
STARMAN OMNIBUS HC VOL 01: Looking forward to this, even though I collected these issues when they first came out... it's been a while since I revisited the series.

TEEN TITANS #59: I guess Morrison's version of the New Gods is now canon. Other than that... meh.

I HATE Morrison's New Gods. If Kirby created it, don't dick around with it. Please.

Kick Ass #3

I thought this had a lot of potential, but when the guy

Rehabs from the injuries he sustained to be back in perfect health the book kind of lost me. It's funny, of all the shit I read, I found that to be too unbelievable.

I HATE Morrison's New Gods. If Kirby created it, don't dick around with it. Please.


I don't necessarily hate them, but I'm still really confused as to how the Seven Soldiers minis tie in timeline-wise to the DC universe. And do Morrison's versions come out as a result of the whole Death of the New Gods thing, or is it something else entirely?

Of course, I'm also confused about Father Time (also, I think, introduced in the Seven Soldiers minis) and the whole Freedom Fighters thing. Speaking of which, how has the series been? I think the first trade just got solicited, and I was thinking about picking it up.

In a similar vein, I enjoyed Gaiman's Externals mini, though it didn't really have an ending and I have yet to read the follow-up.

I don't necessarily hate them, but I'm still really confused as to how the Seven Soldiers minis tie in timeline-wise to the DC universe. And do Morrison's versions come out as a result of the whole Death of the New Gods thing, or is it something else entirely?

Of course, I'm also confused about Father Time (also, I think, introduced in the Seven Soldiers minis) and the whole Freedom Fighters thing. Speaking of which, how has the series been? I think the first trade just got solicited, and I was thinking about picking it up.

In a similar vein, I enjoyed Gaiman's Externals mini, though it didn't really have an ending and I have yet to read the follow-up.


In order:

I've got no idea what Morrison or DC is thinking with any of this. Did they even know they were doing the Death of the New Gods series when they were releasing 7 Soldiers?

I read the trade of the Freedom Fighters mini series and, while the artwork was nice, the story left much to be desired. I didn't bother with the regular series.

Gaiman's Eternals was more of a prologue than a story. Or even a chapter of a story. The artwork in the follow up is by Arcuna(sp?) who also did the Freedom Fighters mini IIRC, so at least it'll be nice to look at.

The big two have been a total clusterfuck when it comes to continuity lately.

However, I still enjoy reading certain stories. WWH was a great story. As was Beyond!

Alright, so I read Kick Ass 3 and I'm changing my tune...that quick. I'm now enjoying this series much like I do All Star Batman, simply for it's ridiculousness. Plus JRJR can draw his ass off.

I'm also still digging the hell out of Justice Society. This, more than any other comic I read, feels like one epic story. The contained continuity of this comic is outstanding, as each issue dovetails beautifully into the next. For those of you who read the previous volume, how does it compare to this one? I plan to read it soon.

Kick Ass kicks...um, ass.

re: this week's Booster Gold - :( No more Ted. Though, I wasn't too pleased with the way Johns had Skeets acting this issue.

Also, I haven't gotten around to reading a Supes title in a long time, but Action was pretty good.

And, I had to change my underwear after my store's owner gave me the promo poster for Astonishing X-Men by Simone Bianchi. (thanks John!) He's up there with Ryp, in my opinion (Simone, not my store's owner).

Trinity - I've read the first 2 issues, and I can't make heads or tails out of this title yet. I'll probably give it another 2 issues, but if I'm not getting much out of except confusion and befuddlement, I'm dropping it.

I'm loving Gary Frank on Action Comics, he's really stepped up his game on this assignment.

Buffy (conclusion to the Dracula storyline) actually had some fun dialogue, so kudos to Drew Goddard. Dawnzilla was a hilarious sight gag.

Buffy (conclusion to the Dracula storyline) actually had some fun dialogue, so kudos to Drew Goddard. Dawnzilla was a hilarious sight gag.

The Dawnzilla stuff didn't work for me, but the rest of that comic was really awesome. I can't believe I didn't get with this series until 8 issues in. It's really been great at picking up the feel of the show to where it actually feels like another season. Makes me wonder if I should go back and give the Angel series a try. That first issue was just so damn bad.

In order:

I've got no idea what Morrison or DC is thinking with any of this. Did they even know they were doing the Death of the New Gods series when they were releasing 7 Soldiers?

From Morrison's interview w/Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com//comics/080609-MorrisonFC01.html):

GM: Again, bear in mind thatCountdown only finished last month so Final Crisis was already well underway long before Countdown and although I’ve tried to avoid contradicting much of the twists and turns of that book as I can with the current Final Crisis scripts, the truth is, we were too far down the road of our own book to reflect everything that went on in Countdown, hence the disconnects that online commentators, sadly, seem to find more fascinating than the stories themselves.

Orion’s appearance on the docks and the Guardians’ response in Final Crisis #1 was written and drawn first. Jim Starlin then created Orion’s death scene in Death Of The New Gods to lead into the War God’s appearance in Final Crisis #1, so we refer back to Jim’s scene in Final Crisis #3. When I wrote that scene, Orion’s terminal injuries were a result of the mysterious bolt of light which Jim hit him with in Death Of The New Gods #6. By the time Countdown #1 came out, I was working on Final Crisis #4 and #5 and JG was drawing #3, so we were already well into our own story and unable to change it to match Countdown.

Yuck.

I don't get it. Isn't Countdown supposed to be, you know a countdown to Final Crisis? And you're telling me that they can't even bother to connect the two correctly? This isn't the case where Batman goes out with the Justice League while he's supposed to be trapped by the Joker or something... these are the big, money crossovers that DC is trying to milk, and they directly connect to each other. Isn't this what editors get paid to do?


edit: reading the article, it does seem like Morrison is planning things out well, especially in regards to connecting this with Seven Soldiers, it just boggles my mind that the DC editors, who knew the basic outline of what his story was going to be, introduced blatant continuity errors, and at least in once case, a blatant contradiction. Why do Death of the New Gods at all?

The Manhunter series is back :up:

Shorter Grant Morrison: "I'm a prima donna and DC's editors suck."

The Manhunter series is back :up:

Looks like we have the new series that just won't die for this century, taking over for Spider-girl.

Looks like we have the new series that just won't die for this century, taking over for Spider-girl.


Good. I like...no, LOVE... Manhunter. Let them kill some other series like the boring ass LEGION of Superheroes and leave Manhunter alone.

This kinda sucks. Gyakushu is heading for online sale (http://blog.newsarama.com/2008/06/16/hipps-gyakushu-heads-online-in-shakeup/). It'll be printed and sold as normal at some point, but not right away.

Good. I like...no, LOVE... Manhunter. Let them kill some other series like the boring ass LEGION of Superheroes and leave Manhunter alone.

Hey! I LOVE the Legion!

Hey! I LOVE the Legion!



rotfl no offense.

This kinda sucks. Gyakushu is heading for online sale (http://blog.newsarama.com/2008/06/16/hipps-gyakushu-heads-online-in-shakeup/). It'll be printed and sold as normal at some point, but not right away.

That does suck. I don't read anything from TokyoPop, but I can't do online comics. Ever. Comics will never be anything but print versions for me.

This kinda sucks. Gyakushu is heading for online sale (http://blog.newsarama.com/2008/06/16/hipps-gyakushu-heads-online-in-shakeup/). It'll be printed and sold as normal at some point, but not right away.

Yeah, Tokyopop's restructuring is affecting most of their titles. I wonder how much being from Tokyopop hurts it, at least in the Direct Market? It's not really a manga, so I don't see it selling all that well in bookstores, and there's sooo much manga out there that I'm not sure comic book stores really notice it.

rotfl no offense.

I love the Legion too. Let's kill off Supergirl.

Good. I like...no, LOVE... Manhunter. Let them kill some other series like the boring ass LEGION of Superheroes and leave Manhunter alone.

I wasn't making a judgement on the merit of the series coming back or not, I haven't read it, just an observation. Least you think I was condemning your series. I wonder if Manhunter being in Birds of Prey helped the series at all?

Also, you know what's good? Top 10. Hard as hell to keep up with since every character has 5 names, but this is proving to be really rich.

Also, you know what's good? Top 10. Hard as hell to keep up with since every character has 5 names, but this is proving to be really rich.

Is there a new Top 10 book coming out now? I was wondering what Gene Ha was up to (besides a JLA fill-in issue). Sometimes I think I was the only one reading his run on Green Lantern (pre Kyle days).

No, I'm just getting around to reading it for the first time.

Looks like this Adam Hughes artwork will be handed out at conventions for the rest of the year:

http://www.justsayah.com/images/DC_Babes.jpg

(And yes, in the final, Poison Ivy is tinted green (http://www.justsayah.com/pages/AHpg32.html)).

Looks like this Adam Hughes artwork will be handed out at conventions for the rest of the year:

http://www.justsayah.com/images/DC_Babes.jpg

(And yes, in the final, Poison Ivy is tinted green (http://www.justsayah.com/pages/AHpg32.html)).

So, from left to right -- Catwoman, Oracle, Zatanna, Black Canary(?), Power Girl, Wonder Woman, Supergirl(?), Vixen, Batwoman(?), Poison Ivy, Harely Quinn

...Batwoman(?)...

I thought about Talia al Ghul, but Kate Kane is a better guess. That's Black Canary and Supergirl for sure, however.

No, I'm just getting around to reading it for the first time.
I should dig my copies out and revisit that whole series. Ha's ability to add in such tiny intricate references to just about everything really made the book almost challenging (in a fun way).

I love the Legion too. <b>Let's kill off Supergirl.</b>


Ok, you're just messing with me aren't you. :grunt:

;)

I should dig my copies out and revisit that whole series. Ha's ability to add in such tiny intricate references to just about everything really made the book almost challenging (in a fun way).

Yeah, it's visually dense. I've stopped trying to place all of the references, but even still there is a lot of information packed into each page.

I tell you, I love how the stories fold out in this book. Some cases take an issue to solve, some take 4, some take longer, which is really cool considering the six issue structure of most books these days. I also really dig how each scene bleeds into the next. We'll be focused on two characters, with another set of characters in the background, and the next panel will be about the background characters. It's pretty awesome.

Looks like this Adam Hughes artwork will be handed out at conventions for the rest of the year:http://laist.com/attachments/la_zach/paris-hilton_thatshot.jpg :drool: :drool: :drool:

I also enjoyed the story on how Selina worked her way into the picture... :lol:

I also enjoyed the story on how Selina worked her way into the picture... :lol:

It's pretty funny that she wasn't included in the first place. I mean in the grand scheme of things, who's a bigger female character than her, besides Wonder Woman?

It's pretty funny that she wasn't included in the first place. I mean in the grand scheme of things, who's a bigger female character than her, besides Wonder Woman?


Yeah and why did Hughes pick Batwoman? I mean seriously. Why not her girlfriend Renee "The New Question" Montoya instead. How about Lois Lane? She's a well known DC female. What about Huntress? I don't know, I guess I'm biased because I think bringing back Batwoman in "52" was stupid.

I do like how WW is the focal point of the <i>piece</i>...no pun intended :p... and I like how she's taller than the rest. I would've left her barefoot just to show that she's still taller than the others. And although it would get some of you "comics are too sexy/sexist/Hetero" folks a reason to bitch...I would've put Ivy's hand on Harley's ass. Everyone knows they're on and off lovers anyway. Or did they retcon that during the crisis/52?

Oh, I totally forgot about Lois, since she's a "civilian". It probably goes Wonder Woman, Lois, and then Catwoman. It is strange that she's not on the piece (as well as Renee), but maybe it has something to do with upcoming story lines or something?

And maybe the hand-on-ass move might have been too much, but around the waist would have been cool. I really love how the Harley/Ivy "romance" has been handled in the books I've read (mainly the animated stuff). It's always implied, and never really feels like tacky fan service.

I thought the woman sitting is Lois. It kind of looks like a possible superman symbol on her ring finger of the left hand.

Just finished:

<img src="http://nonfictioncomics.com/images/ABC.jpg">

re: Final Crisis.

So, they pissed all over Kirby's New Gods in favor of...this? :hscratch:

The first third of Final Crisis #2 was set in Japan as imagined by someone who has only read about Japan on the internet and featured a bunch of characters never before seen in the DC Universe along with a single obscure Jack Kirby character.

Seriously -- someone at DC approved this shit?

I liked it a lot better than the first issue. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what's happening, but the story is shaping up and starting to get interesting. It's very 52-esque in the various plot threads happening all over the place. I don't know which New God Sonny Sumo is supposed to be, but that was one badass introduction for him.

And if you don't like what they've done to the New Gods. Don't worry, just close your eyes and count to three, and before you know it things will be back to the status quo before you know it.

This is yet another example of how Grant Morrison's themes and ideas are usually better in concept than in execution.

I just read Final Crisis #1 and I'm sooo confused. :(

Why is the JL acting like they don't know who the New Gods are? As if they've barely had contact? Hell, SUPERMAN WAS PRESENT WHEN ORION WAS IN THE FINAL DAYS OF HIS LIFE!!! Maybe there's a reason for this.


Either way, other than Big Barda, Mister Miracle, and 1 or 2 other female New Gods I never really cared for the concept. So if they're reincarnating them as Earthly characters who may or may not know of their past that's fine with me. :up:

The next big event from DC will be "Final Crisis Countdown Retcon", where they explain all the inconsistencies between Countdown and Final Crisis.

I thought this was a "Crisis Trilogy"?

I just read Final Crisis #1 and I'm sooo confused. :(

Why is the JL acting like they don't know who the New Gods are? As if they've barely had contact? Hell, SUPERMAN WAS PRESENT WHEN ORION WAS IN THE FINAL DAYS OF HIS LIFE!!! Maybe there's a reason for this.
I'm glad you mentioned that because I was wondering if I missed something (and I probably did since I don't read too many DC books). Given a few of the events of issue 2 I'm wondering if this whole thing is taking place outside regular continuity (and I use that word with all intended sarcasm). Anyway, 'Robo, as you say, maybe there's a reason. :shrug:

Personally I loved both issues of FC - I haven't read any of Kirby's New Gods series so I'm not up on the history, but I love how Grant is tying FC in with the Seven Soldiers maxi-series from a couple years ago. I'm going to have to pull out all the issues from SS to see if i pick up on anything else.

I just read Final Crisis #1 and I'm sooo confused. :(

Why is the JL acting like they don't know who the New Gods are? As if they've barely had contact? Hell, SUPERMAN WAS PRESENT WHEN ORION WAS IN THE FINAL DAYS OF HIS LIFE!!! Maybe there's a reason for this.
Hey, cut Morrison a break. It's not like he's got any reason to know that the Justice League has met the New Gods. Oh, sure ... maybe if he were a former writer of Justice League who had included Orion and Big Barda as members of his Justice League roster ... maybe then we might expect him to realize that the League knows the New Gods. But it's not like that ever happened.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/JFliegel/5747_4_0016.jpg

Wait ... what?

Yeah, but that cover has Superman Blue on it. Obviously any thing that even references Superman Blue in the slightest is to be forgotten. I think they even purged Superman Blue related material from the DC Vault.

;)

Superman Blue was really ridiculous, but Morrison made him badass in JLA.

I don't have the issues in front of me, but aren't the only characters that acted like they didn't know Orion were John Stewart and Hal? Neither of them were in Morrison's JLA, and who knows if Cosmic Odyssey is still in continuity anymore.

I don't have the issues in front of me, but aren't the only characters that acted like they didn't know Orion were John Stewart and Hal? Neither of them were in Morrison's JLA, and who knows if Cosmic Odyssey is still in continuity anymore.



No. It was the "Big 3" or the "Trinity" of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. That's why I pointed out that it was weird that they were seemingly ignorant of the "New Gods", when Superman was with Orion during his final days(Death of the New Gods" miniseries).

As far as The Lanterns, Hal seemed to know more about Orion and the gang than John while at the "crime scene".

Some people have suggested that the Trinity were speaking of the New Gods like that for the benefit of some of the new JLAers who might not have dealt with them before, like Vixen or Speedy. I don't know if that's the case or not.

I do really enjoy when long standing characters meet or are introduced to other long standing characters. Everyone in the DCU should know who characters like Superman, Wonder Woman, and the Flash are. But it should stand to reason that not everyone would know Big Barda or The Question. I wish this was a device that was used more.

I filled the cup after finally seeing this issue..

http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/0708/aston_xm_25.jpg

I love Bianchi's artwork. However, the story was lacking. CSI:X-Men? -ohbfrank-

Warren Ellis has really, really lost his touch with his mainstream work. His strength is creator-owned.

Anyone else pick up this month's wizard and notice that they had no monthly comic previews? did I miss something or has Wizard finally just admitted that they no longer write anything important when it comes to the comic industry other than to generate hype for comic book movies?

I'm way behind, but just finished reading the second Sinestro Wars trade, and started into the Tales of the Sinestro Corp. Wow. One of those books that you go into expecting to read only one chapter at a time, only to read all in one sitting. I felt it jumped around a little too much, but the Tales books filled in the gaps nicely (especially the reasoning behind Superboy Prime teaming up with Anti Monitor, the one he should hate the most). I don't quite buy that the Earth Superheroes couldn't hold their own here, but hey, it's a GL story after all.

Next up is the last Y the Last Man trade... I might go back and re-read the previous 9 volumes first...

Anyone reading the Batman: R.I.P. run?

Anyone reading the Batman: R.I.P. run?

I'm only buying Batman and Detective for the Batman: RIP storyline, not buying Robin or Nightwing or any other titles. So far, it's been meh.

Anyone reading the Batman: R.I.P. run?

I'm really enjoying Batman RIP - I know when all is said and done it'll be like Morrison's run on New X-Men where you find that he has had clues spread throughout the entire series as to the identity of the villian.

Anyone reading the Batman: R.I.P. run?

I'm collecting them but I'm behind on my comic reading.

I'm only buying Batman and Detective for the Batman: RIP storyline, not buying Robin or Nightwing or any other titles. So far, it's been meh.After the recent development regarding Nightwing, i'm wondering how he can have a solo book at all. So far it's been just Bats book, but once the other ones kick in, I really wish DC would bring back the Superman triangles so I know what order to read them in. Hell, I wish everyone would do that..

What's going on with Nightwing (spoiler if you think it's needed)? TIA.

He was committed, foaming mouth and all, to Arkham.

I'm reading RIP, and I have to be honest and say I don't really know what the hell is going on. That's probably because i jumped back on with this arc, which means I've missed a lot of the clues and foreshadowing Morrison did earlier in his run. I'm pretty much ready to just give up on it for now, and revisit it later when it's all done. Morrison reads better for me that way.

I'm reading RIP, and I have to be honest and say I don't really know what the hell is going on. That's probably because i jumped back on with this arc, which means I've missed a lot of the clues and foreshadowing Morrison did earlier in his run. I'm pretty much ready to just give up on it for now, and revisit it later when it's all done. Morrison reads better for me that way.

I've been reading all of Morrison's Batman run, and I'm not completely sure what the hell is going on, either. I keep thinking that I must have missed an issue here or there, but I know that I haven't. I'd like to give Morrison the benefit of the doubt and believe that it will all somehow come together in the end. Sadly, I don't think that will be the case. It's poor, disjointed (although occassionally oddly compelling) storytelling.

A couple other random thoughts and opinions...

Just finished reading James Robinson's first issue of Superman. He's got a history of stellar work and it's too early to judge how everything will work out, but I really enjoyed this issue. The opening with Krypto was a joy even for this Krypto-hater. A year ago Supes was enjoying a hot pretzel and now he's playing fetch with his dog. Hurray for a more human Man of Steel!

And speaking of Superman, I'm loving Geoff John's run on Action Comics right now. "Last Son" suffered so many delays that it's a bit hard to judge without going back and re-reading the whole thing, but my initial reaction is pretty damn positive. The Legion story was excellent and Braniac is off to a strong start.
Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the quality of John's work on Green Lantern lately. The Sinestro Corp storyline was great, epic storytelling. Everything since has just felt like either build-up for Darkest Night or mediocre padding (a retelling of GL's origin????).

The new Hellboy movie was a bit of a disappointment for me, but the books (both Hellboy and BPRD) are on a roll. Quality miniseries being produced every month, including "The Ectoplasmic Man" and "War On Frogs" one-shots. Both are a real treat for fans of the characters of Johann Kraus and Roger.

It looks like Bill Willingham has added another winner to his resume with House Of Mystery.

Andy Diggle had a hard act to follow when he took over Hellblazer shortly after the departure of Mike Carey. Carey's run is my favorite take on the character, and this is coming from someone who has almost every single issue of the series. (I had to stop for a while during the Jenkins run because I couldn't justify wasting money on such dreck.) But Diggle's work on the title, while not groundbreaking by any means, has been very solid.

And, once again, I must state my love for DMZ. If you aren't reading this book, what the hell are you waiting for???? It's often disturbing, always thought provoking, but without being too bleak. Do yourself a favor and pick up the trades.

It looks like Bill Willingham has added another winner to his resume with House Of Mystery.

Just a small nitpick - House of Mystery is more Sturges' baby than anything. Willingham is only doing the inset stories, and even then I believe he's only doing them for the first story arc (although this I'm not too sure of). But yea, Sturges is the one behind House of Mystery.

Yeah, Morrison's style is exactly like that... You read and read totally lost and then for some reason at the end, it all comes together and you're like, "oh ok, thats pretty damn good."

I'm still waiting to think that about his run on New X-Men..

Finished the Sinestro Wars trades (including the Tales of the Sinestro Corps one):



Most if not all of the "Tales" books felt like a ton of padding. I think I enjoyed the ministories and back stories more than the specials themselves. The Superman Prime backstory drawn by Ordway was cool, but otherwise it just ended up to a whole lot of nothing, leading into his fight with the new ION.

I guess I expected the new Ion to do a bit more than just get his behind handed to him by Superman Prime.

I can see why people hated the epilogues. They fell into what seems like the common trap at DC, in that it didn't really have a fitting end to the storyline, but was more of a lead in to what's coming next. They couldn't even end the Cyborg Superman story?

I like that Sinestro's big plan was to change the corps the way he always wanted to, but the new provisions only allow lethal force against Sinestro Corps members, right? I guess that it leaves them on a slippery slope, and the other new laws have yet to be revealed.

In the Who's Who entry for the prison on Oa, they mention that not a single prisoner has ever been reformed there... then what's the point?


Some of my fondest comic memories as a kid was reading stories about the entire corp being led by Hal Jordan against some huge foe, so I loved this as a whole.

Also finally read the last trade of Y the Last Man. I think this is one of the rare books that works much, much better as a month-to-month read... I just read the thing too fast, and kinda glossed over the impact of a lot of the major scenes.

Anyone reading Uncanny X-Men? I've been thinking about picking up some monthlies again to feed my need for comics, and with the 500 issue hitting today, I figured it would be a good start. Is it any good these days?

Anyone reading Uncanny X-Men? I've been thinking about picking up some monthlies again to feed my need for comics, and with the 500 issue hitting today, I figured it would be a good start. Is it any good these days?
I guess if you wanted to jump on, this would be a good place since it's a new writer/artist/direction thing.

Ambush Bug #1 ... :lol:

Finished the Sinestro Wars trades (including the Tales of the Sinestro Corps one):



Most if not all of the "Tales" books felt like a ton of padding. I think I enjoyed the ministories and back stories more than the specials themselves. The Superman Prime backstory drawn by Ordway was cool, but otherwise it just ended up to a whole lot of nothing, leading into his fight with the new ION.

I guess I expected the new Ion to do a bit more than just get his behind handed to him by Superman Prime.

I can see why people hated the epilogues. They fell into what seems like the common trap at DC, in that it didn't really have a fitting end to the storyline, but was more of a lead in to what's coming next. They couldn't even end the Cyborg Superman story?

I like that Sinestro's big plan was to change the corps the way he always wanted to, but the new provisions only allow lethal force against Sinestro Corps members, right? I guess that it leaves them on a slippery slope, and the other new laws have yet to be revealed.

In the Who's Who entry for the prison on Oa, they mention that not a single prisoner has ever been reformed there... then what's the point?


Some of my fondest comic memories as a kid was reading stories about the entire corp being led by Hal Jordan against some huge foe, so I loved this as a whole.

Also finally read the last trade of Y the Last Man. I think this is one of the rare books that works much, much better as a month-to-month read... I just read the thing too fast, and kinda glossed over the impact of a lot of the major scenes.

I share many of these same sentiments.


In re: The Sinestro Corps War, It seems like the build up to the end of the story was really watered down. The finale with the death of the Anti-Monitor felt really forced and obligatory. Like most big stories, it had a great build up but the pay off was really bad. Maybe Johns should take some basic writing classes where they teach you how to write a complete story, including the ending, before publishing it. A monthly schedule like this lets writers throw around ideas which most of the time, they simply don't have the talent to resolve. This same problem plagues the other major form of serialized fiction, TV.

The epilogues made the whole story feel like it was an insert in Previews of upcoming stories in the DCU.

In re: Y: The Last Man, I again share many of your sentiments. It is definitely a solid monthly read, even though many of the issues end on cliffhangers. Scratch that - EVERY issue ended on a cliff hanger. But for some reason, reading stories back to back did make them feel somewhat flat. However, the ending was one that was both a colossal surprise and a delight at the same time. Leave it up to BKV to write an ending like that.

The untimely death of Dennis ...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a142/Bronkster/dennis.jpg

Final Crisis #3:

Okay, I get it now. It's not supposed to make sense, it's supposed to be sick and surreal like Seven Soldiers.

Yeah, I'm not feeling Final Crisis at all. It's just.. meh.

I actually enjoyed Front Line this week more than I did Final Crisis. You hear that. FRONT LINE! For fucks sake, that's just.... insane.

Also about Sinestro Corps. Pick up some of the latest issues, you'll see that the whole war was nothing more than a set up for the war of lights and the blackest night that's coming up next year. It'll make more sense like that. Maybe it loses something in the trades. I know having all the side mini stories in one trade doesn't make for good reading. When those were laced throughout the monthly books it read and felt great. I didn't feel that there was an anti-climatic ending. I haven't read it through in trade though. But as a monthly, Johns could do no wrong because I loved that whole experience.

I thought Final Crisis #3 was an incomprehensible mess. And I kept waiting for Supergirl to have a role in the issue, what with her being on the cover and all.

On the other hand, in the last few weeks, I picked up collections of Journey, Zot!, and American Flagg! Somebody remind me what year it is again?

Also about Sinestro Corps. Pick up some of the latest issues, you'll see that the whole war was nothing more than a set up for the war of lights and the blackest night that's coming up next year. It'll make more sense like that. Maybe it loses something in the trades. I know having all the side mini stories in one trade doesn't make for good reading. When those were laced throughout the monthly books it read and felt great. I didn't feel that there was an anti-climatic ending. I haven't read it through in trade though. But as a monthly, Johns could do no wrong because I loved that whole experience.

I guess the problem I had is not with Johns necessarily, but it seems like EVERY DC big-event book is just a lead in to the next big event, which leads to the next one, etc. I guess this is true of Marvel as well these days, but for Annihilation, for instance, I felt like the first series had an ending, even if they followed it up with Conquest later.

I liked Final Crisis better when it was called Rock of Ages.

While I love Grant and I can see what he's trying to do here. That is, have us feel like we're missing some major bit of what is going on and be as confused and lost as the heroes in this situation were in their POV, a war in heaven was already fought and lost. Evil has already won, it just comes across as terrible story telling that, while it may read great in trade, simply feels like we're only reading every third page.

It's a mess and the tie in issues are a lot better than the main book. I really was more excited for Front Line this week than I was for Final Crisis. And that's a sad thing.

And yeah, for having Supergirl on the cover, she sure did a whole lot of nothing.

I'm just not feeling it. I mean, I get it. A darker DC blah blah blah where evil won. But I just don't care to read that. We already had a good year of that in the last big event and while I hated everything about Countdown, any one who actually read it would be totally lost anyway because Grant is completely ignoring Countdown altogether. Which is just.. well, at least fess up to the screw up of that year long mess.

I just wish DC could go a short time before "Shaking things up" with their major event so we can actually enjoy a complete run of good solid story telling.

I just wish DC could go a short time before "Shaking things up" with their major event so we can actually enjoy a complete run of good solid story telling.

DC's editorial schizophrenia solves this problem. Events in books that "shake things up" like Final Crisis and Batman: RIP are not referenced in other books starring the same characters; this is exactly the same problem that plagued Countdown and Final Crisis. While this lack of coordination has a negative impact on the big event books and continuity-driven stories, which consequently don't feel like events at all, it leaves the ongoing titles free to do their own thing, like Johns and Robinson on the Superman titles or Johns and Tomasi on the Green Lantern books.

It's a better situation than circa Identity Crisis, where the stink of that crossover tainted pretty much the entire DCU for a while.

Countdown was utterly unreadable and almost totally inaccessible. It was probably one of the worst events in DC history, next to the Millennium 2001 fiasco.

Justice Society of America is the thing out IMO. JSA Annual #1 was really great. Batman RIP - The Heart of Hush - is looking good so far. It seems Dini suggest that Bruce got his concept for Prep-time from Thomas Elliot.

DC's editorial schizophrenia solves this problem. Events in books that "shake things up" like Final Crisis and Batman: RIP are not referenced in other books starring the same characters; this is exactly the same problem that plagued Countdown and Final Crisis. While this lack of coordination has a negative impact on the big event books and continuity-driven stories, which consequently don't feel like events at all, it leaves the ongoing titles free to do their own thing, like Johns and Robinson on the Superman titles or Johns and Tomasi on the Green Lantern books.

It's a better situation than circa Identity Crisis, where the stink of that crossover tainted pretty much the entire DCU for a while.


All Batman titles are in R.I.P, which while it has some good potential, it's really not even in the same boat as in what is going on. You have nightwing in the nut house one issue, then the next he's getting helicopter debri stabbed into him. Detective and BATMAN don't mesh together at all.

Green Lantern, while good, is spending a good 7 months on retelling his origin so they could include and retcon blackest night seeds into it. So having their books NOT intersect with the main events only goes on for so long before the main event changes the status quo and then we have to reboot to the new changes.

Either way, Final Crisis is really not something I'm enjoying at all.

Just reread the Watchmen. It is been 20 years since I have read it and I forgot just how good it was. I also see no way this can be brought to the screen in a way that will satisfy anyone that has read the graphic novel. Hopefully I am wrong.

Just reread the Watchmen. It is been 20 years since I have read it and I forgot just how good it was. I also see no way this can be brought to the screen in a way that will satisfy anyone that has read the graphic novel. Hopefully I am wrong.

The worst thing that can happen to watchmen is if it is brought to the screen in a way that is actually true to the comic.

Honestly, as great as the Watchmen is, I have no real desire to watch it as a movie. The outfits just look terrible when translated to the big screen and I don't think the story can truly be adapted .

You're not taking into account that the costumes in the film are doing to comic films what the watchmen did to the old 50's super hero genre.

Hell, even the song alone in the trailer being the same one found in Batman And Robin soundtrack should tell you that at least zack snyder gets it. I look forward to the film.

Countdown was utterly unreadable and almost totally inaccessible. It was probably one of the worst events in DC history, next to the Millennium 2001 fiasco.


I have to agree with this. I just got done with the second trade and I still have no idea what the heck is going on, or why the issues have such a hard time segueing into each other. I'm sure there are like 10 regular series and 5 miniseries that detail all of this crap, but you'd think that
a) they could at least give you some kind of recap to make the book make sense on it's own... at the very least have some of those old-time editorial blurbs about what other issues are necessary (see Donna Troy and company get whupped in issue 4 of blahblah!).
b) They could get some higher profile/more consistent artists on this book. I know it's weekly, and it probably sells fine without, but when only one out of every four issues is even comprehensible, there's a problem.
c) They could get some protagonists that I could actually cheer for. I hate Mary Marvel (though that may be the point). I hate Jimmy Olsen and all his whining. I kinda like the Rogues, but it made me hate all the "heroes" like the Flash that they interacted with. I'm neutral about pseudo Catwoman, but I have no idea what the point of that storyline is. I hate Donna Troy, Jason Todd, and "good" Monitor, who is utterly ineffective at doing anything. I hate all the monitors.

Ironically, the stinking Monarch is in this fiasco too, so I can see the comparisons to Armageddon. Every time I see him I think "they screwed up Hawk and Dove for this?"

That's not even getting into the fact that it doesn't really lead into Final Crisis, even though it's the "Countdown to Final Crisis."

Thankfully JSA has seemingly steered way clear of any of this.

Ironically, the stinking Monarch is in this fiasco too, so I can see the comparisons to Armageddon. Every time I see him I think "they screwed up Hawk and Dove for this?"

That's not even getting into the fact that it doesn't really lead into Final Crisis, even though it's the "Countdown to Final Crisis."

Thankfully JSA has seemingly steered way clear of any of this.

Here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16948) is an article by Steven Grant that speaks to some of these issues, and ties the disconnect between Countdown and Final Crisis to the spoiling of Armageddon 2001 - Captain Atom was supposed to become the Monarch; this was leaked, and DC panicked and changed the ending so that Hawk became the Monarch. Grant's thesis is that DC was so stung by this that they adopted a corporate strategy of high secrecy, so that there was no crosstalk between editorial offices about what would happen in Final Crisis, Countdown, and Death of the New Gods.

As for the JSA, it's steered clear of Countdown and Final Crisis but disappeared right up Alex Ross' butt. I want him off the book in the worst way.

You're not enjoying JSA? I find it to be one of the best books DC is putting out right now. Just a nice grand superhero tale, that while laden with continuity (if you want it), doesn't rely much on the rest of current DC.

I have to say, I'm not enjoying Final Crisis much either. I frequent another comic message board, and the reaction over there is really high on the book. Made me feel like I was missing out on something. I've read reviews, and have seen people point out what Morrison is doing and why that's clever, but at the end of the day when I come away from the books I don't feel much of anything. They're just kind of there.

I do like JSA. The first few issues of the new series were great, and Eaglesham's art is some of the best at DC right now. I just feel like the current storyline is dragging, and I think the buildup of new characters has cluttered the book tremendously.

It's still tons better than JLA. For one thing, my eyes don't bleed when I look at the art.

That's fair. I'm personally digging the hell out of the current storyline, but it has been going on for awhile. Actually, how the book is done there really hasn't been a break between any of the stories has there? Each one has just dove tailed into the next. I don't feel like any issue has put a "period" on the runon sentence that is JSA yet.

Even though they have a shit-ton of characters, I don't have a problem keeping track of who's who. I think Johns is handling the cast expertly, and I feel like I "know" some of these characters better than characters in books that only have teams of 4 or 5. I would like for some quieter issues after so many issues of bombastic stories eventually. Like a thanksgiving issue, that would be nice.

Eaglesham is the unsung hero of that book. His art isn't as instantly impressive as someone like Jim Lee or Hitch, because it's not flashy, but when you get down to it he is doing some amazing storytelling in these issues. To be able to handle a cast of dozens so effortlessly is a feat in and of itself, to have it look so pretty is just a bonus. His style is also a bit of a throwback, so it suits the characters really well. He definitely comes from the Perez school of things. He's awesome.

Outside of the art, how is JLA now under McDuffie? I'm rereading Morrison's JLA now because I'm yearning for some good JLA stories, but that book really left me cold under Meltzer and I read the first 2 McDuffie issues and wasn't turned off, but wasn't intrigued either. That story felt like a major retread of the JLU story.

I was curious too why you felt Alex Ross was bringing JSA down? I haven't heard much about how he's influencing the story, though he is co-credited with writing the book. The last issue I read (JSA 17), Hawkman even grumbled about all the heroes stumbling over each other when trying to fight. And I'm not sure who Fernando Pasarin is, but I really liked his art on the issue. It really is a more character-oriented book than most other superhero team books... there wasn't even really a fight in this issue, and it seemed to segue right into the annual (which I haven't read yet).

JLA is almost exactly the opposite. You'll still get little character moments, but it's been mostly action. I used to like Ed Benes, but I'm growing a little weary of his style now. And I also didn't understand

why Black Canary made such a huge, dramatic deal out of kicking Vixen off the team because she lied to them... and then reveals in the next issue that she's only off the team until her powers stabilize. Why didn't they just say that, then?


I'm also confused about which Green Lantern is on this team... both of them?

I was curious too why you felt Alex Ross was bringing JSA down? I haven't heard much about how he's influencing the story, though he is co-credited with writing the book. The last issue I read (JSA 17), Hawkman even grumbled about all the heroes stumbling over each other when trying to fight. And I'm not sure who Fernando Pasarin is, but I really liked his art on the issue. It really is a more character-oriented book than most other superhero team books... there wasn't even really a fight in this issue, and it seemed to segue right into the annual (which I haven't read yet).

JLA is almost exactly the opposite. You'll still get little character moments, but it's been mostly action. I used to like Ed Benes, but I'm growing a little weary of his style now. And I also didn't understand

why Black Canary made such a huge, dramatic deal out of kicking Vixen off the team because she lied to them... and then reveals in the next issue that she's only off the team until her powers stabilize. Why didn't they just say that, then?


I'm also confused about which Green Lantern is on this team... both of them?


Hal is the Main GL in the JL. But I remember a scene earlier in this series right around the time of the Black Canary/Green Arrow marriage where Hal was thanking John for filling in for him so he could take care of some business. IIRC, Hal and John are now the Earth sector lanterns from Earth since Guy and Kyle are back on Oa training new corps members.

From Wiki:

Aside from his own monthly title, Jordan is also a character of focus in the new Justice League of America series as a charter member of the revamped JLA.

Because of his full time status with both the League and the Green Lantern Corps, Hal calls upon his sector partner John Stewart to rotate the JLA's need for a Green Lantern between the two of them.

The worst thing that can happen to watchmen is if it is brought to the screen in a way that is actually true to the comic.
The trailer definitely has scenes straight out of the graphic novel. I'm hoping the overall story can work in a 2 hour format, but all the depth and multiple layers to the narrative can't be translated. It could still be good, but I don't see how it can carry the same weight as the book which has to be read and reread because of all the things you find every time through. Hopefully the movie will stand up as its own entity. That is really all you can ask for. They have to make sure it works for a general audience that has no idea what The Watchmen was.

BTW, I thought Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan looked pretty cool on screen, but I'm not liking the Comedian or Nite Owl much in the brief views of them so far.

And if Paul Dini didn't have enough to do with Batman, Eidos tapped him to write the story for a game entitled "Batman: Arkham Asylum (http://kotaku.com/5036332/eidos-announce-another-batman-game)"

The trailer definitely has scenes straight out of the graphic novel. I'm hoping the overall story can work in a 2 hour format, but all the depth and multiple layers to the narrative can't be translated. It could still be good, but I don't see how it can carry the same weight as the book which has to be read and reread because of all the things you find every time through. Hopefully the movie will stand up as its own entity. That is really all you can ask for. They have to make sure it works for a general audience that has no idea what The Watchmen was.

BTW, I thought Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan looked pretty cool on screen, but I'm not liking the Comedian or Nite Owl much in the brief views of them so far.

I can understand the desire to bring the movie to the screen, but the overall impression I get from it is that it's just going to be another fanboy fest.

Also, has anyone even considered that audiences might be offended at the fact that

The impact of the bittersweet ending? The heroes fail to prevent a disastrous attack on New York City and it's supposed to usher in an era of peace

300 had the opposite problem that this movie did. That was a comic with not enough material to make into a cohesive film, and Watchmen has way too much.

I choose to believe all Watchmen doubters will be pleasantly surprised...

I'm leaning towards it being a better of the Moore adaptations.

So, I was glancing through the latest Comic Shop News (Free at your local comic book shop!) and found a blurb that answered something I was curious about - Back in Countdown, Jimmy Olsen found out Superman's identity, but nothing had been said about that since then. It appears the other writers decided it was a bad idea and won't acknowledge it. Nice. They didn't even bother having Mephisto pop in to mess it up.

Another comment from the above mentioned Comic Shop News - There's a picture of Krypto that looks like it was done by Alex Ross - Anyone know what it's from? T'anks!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a142/Bronkster/SuperBanana.gif

Hey, Giantorbo -- I was in a shop yesterday and saw the first Manhunter trade. Since you're always talking the book up I decided to check it out. It was pretty good. I'm definitely going to pick up the second trade. Thanks!

Grant already stated. Countdown doesn't count. It never happened. You're wasting your time reading that in more ways than one. If you're going to get into final crisis, and I wonder really, why? then don't pick up countdown as it simply didn't happen

Grant already stated. Countdown doesn't count. It never happened. You're wasting your time reading that in more ways than one. If you're going to get into final crisis, and I wonder really, why? then don't pick up countdown as it simply didn't happen

Well, that just sucks. I'm only getting the main Final Crisis book - and I'm not sure why at this point.

I have been out of comic book collecting for quite some time now, but I was at the local newsstand this past weekend and I noticed some Marvel titles with $5.99 cover price, is this what is coming soon for all the books? From what I could tell the price for a regular book is $2.99 but if I remember correctly that has been the norm for quite some time now, is it time for another price increase? Is anyone here still buying monthly titles or just buying the trades?

JonKramer991:

What Marvel titles were $5.99? I know that titles such as Sky Doll & Universal War One are $5.99. What else did you see that was $5.99? I don't believe that the price for a monthly would jump up that high . . . maybe $3.25 or $3.50 (the price of a majority of monthlies from indie companies like Oni Press).

I don't think a raise in price is going to happen soon. I'll ask the owner of my LCBS what he thinks (he's been in the business for 20+ years) and post you what he says.

I'm still buying more monthly titles than trades. But if the price goes up too much I'll switch to more trades.

-- I was in a shop yesterday and saw the first Manhunter trade. Since you're always talking the book up I decided to check it out. It was pretty good. I'm definitely going to pick up the second trade. Thanks!


Cool! :up:

Grant already stated. Countdown doesn't count. It never happened. You're wasting your time reading that in more ways than one. If you're going to get into final crisis, and I wonder really, why? then don't pick up countdown as it simply didn't happen

Well, that's really going to screw up Mary Marvel. How would you explain her transformation from non-powered at the end of the Infinite Crisis series of books to Darkseid's psychotic minion in Final Crisis #3?

(BTW, I hated what they did with her character. DC could have made her more interesting, but they turned her into a one-trick villain.)

Simple. What happened in Countdown was suppose to happen in Final Crisis. Only this time the reasoning was that Darkseid's controlling her

In fact, if you even take Countdown into account, it just didn't make sense in that at all. She went from evil to good and then said F it, I'm evil again..

I grow oh-so-weary of these big events that an astoundingly good issue of The Walking Dead that kept me guessing can lift me out of dread. It almost made the last 10 issues better, somehow.

Is their official stance that Countdown to FC really doesn't amount to much? It doesn't even link into FC despite having that in it's title? I'm collecting the trades, but I might as well stop now, right?

I feel bad for those who actually bought the issues every week at 2.99 a pop (around 155 bucks total). Not that continuity is the only reason to buy a comic, but in this kind of event driven book, you'd think that the "big changes" would be relevant for at least a few months after the book concludes. Geez. It's not like anyone bought it every week for the incredible art.

Is their official stance that Countdown to FC really doesn't amount to much? It doesn't even link into FC despite having that in it's title? I'm collecting the trades, but I might as well stop now, right?

I feel bad for those who actually bought the issues every week at 2.99 a pop (around 155 bucks total). Not that continuity is the only reason to buy a comic, but in this kind of event driven book, you'd think that the "big changes" would be relevant for at least a few months after the book concludes. Geez. It's not like anyone bought it every week for the incredible art.

Continue to buy them only if you're particularly enjoying them. The series as a whole goes nowhere and was essentially retconned out of existence mere weeks after completion - you may have to go back to the end of Morrison's New X-Men for something similar.

What hurts is that you probably can't get any kind of return on the issues if you want to get rid of them, while you can sell your TPB (the first volume, anyway) to Lone Star Comics for $8.00 store credit.

Here's the thing: I liked 52. I like the Legion of Super Heroes. I like Mary Marvel. I like the lesser-seen realms of magic in the DC Universe. I like the New Gods and Olsen's connection with them. I like the DC Universe, especially the lesser-known corners of it. I like Donna Troy. I like Piper and Trickster.

So far (the two tpbs I've read), Countdown takes all of these pieces that I like, jumbles them up, and comes up with a product that, for some reason or another, feels very disjointed, despite some cool moments. Maybe it read better as a weekly comic, when the events in Countdown tied more closely to whatever was going on in the DC universe at that time. Perhaps that's why 52, which didn't have to be tied to anything currently going on in the DC universe, worked better for me (and I read it every week). The thing is, I read some of those issues (like the Supergirl tie-in) at the time without reading Countdown, and it was super confusing... and I'm not sure that reading Countdown now made it any less so.

Now knowing that it doesn't even do what its title says it's supposed to do is like the nail in the coffin.

Sorry, duplicate post. Might as well ask here, though: so Starlin's Death of the New Gods series is also useless, continuity-wise, right? Is it at least a good read?

I grow oh-so-weary of these big events that an astoundingly good issue of The Walking Dead that kept me guessing can lift me out of dread. It almost made the last 10 issues better, somehow.

The lead up to the last issue was awful and I was about to drop it. But that issue was really good. Let's see where the road takes it.

But yeah, I'm not feeling Final Crisis at all. It may read great in trade, but for now it just feels too random.

Continue to buy them only if you're particularly enjoying them. The series as a whole goes nowhere and was essentially retconned out of existence mere weeks after completion - you may have to go back to the end of Morrison's New X-Men for something similar.I wonder why DC allowed this? I also wonder if anyone's taken them to task for it..

Because they liked the profits of a weekly book selling no matter how little effort they put into it. And it's Grant Morrison. So he could do whatever he wants to when it comes down to it.

The lead up to the last issue was awful and I was about to drop it. But that issue was really good. Let's see where the road takes it.


Are you talking about issues 50 and 51? I agree that 50 was kind of a lame issue and that 51 was better, but I do know I'm not really feeling the book right now. It definitely needs to take a breather after the events of issues 47-49, so I get that, but I'm looking forward to what happens "next".

Is anyone reading Action Comics by Geoff Johns? Once again Johns has gone and made me care about a cast of characters I normally wouldn't give two shakes about. I'm determined now to just go back and read everything he's written. I haven't really read anything of his that has disappointed me, and a lot of his stuff has been down right great.

For anyone who's read it, how was his Avengers run? How about Stars and STRIPE?

Are you talking about issues 50 and 51? I agree that 50 was kind of a lame issue and that 51 was better, but I do know I'm not really feeling the book right now. It definitely needs to take a breather after the events of issues 47-49, so I get that, but I'm looking forward to what happens "next".

I thought the storyline during the prison was really hit-and-miss, more miss than anything. The issues just felt really stuttered and more suited for the trade format. Re-reading earlier issues reveals better pacing issue-to-issue.

Issue 50 was definitely weak, and I think Kirkman was looking for a break from all the heavy drama of the last 12 issues. 51 was definitely a return to more balanced storytelling and the fact that there isn't a huge cast of characters makes the book feel tighter and more focused.

Is anyone reading Action Comics by Geoff Johns? Once again Johns has gone and made me care about a cast of characters I normally wouldn't give two shakes about. I'm determined now to just go back and read everything he's written. I haven't really read anything of his that has disappointed me, and a lot of his stuff has been down right great.

For anyone who's read it, how was his Avengers run? How about Stars and STRIPE?

His Avengers run was weak and overrated; the Busiek/Perez issues were gold in comparison. Stars and Stripe is what it is: stupid, immature superhero storytelling.

His Avengers run was weak and overrated; the Busiek/Perez issues were gold in comparison. Stars and Stripe is what it is: stupid, immature superhero storytelling.The Busiek/Perez Avengers issues were gold - period. Particularly the Ultron storyline. And Stars And Stripe was far from stupid and immature.

I thought the storyline during the prison was really hit-and-miss, more miss than anything. The issues just felt really stuttered and more suited for the trade format. Re-reading earlier issues reveals better pacing issue-to-issue.

Issue 50 was definitely weak, and I think Kirkman was looking for a break from all the heavy drama of the last 12 issues. 51 was definitely a return to more balanced storytelling and the fact that there isn't a huge cast of characters makes the book feel tighter and more focused.

I liked the Prison arc fine, but there were sections where it felt like Kirkman was treading water. If anything I'm glad for the cast changes. I was having a hard remembering who was who and what was what.

Also, I don't know how overrated his Avengers run is. I hardly ever see people cite it among his best stuff. I think it's kind of just there. Still, I will probably try it just to see how he handles Marvel characters

The Busiek/Perez Avengers issues were gold - period. Particularly the Ultron storyline. And Stars And Stripe was far from stupid and immature.

I meant that the Busiek/Perez issues were infinitely preferable. He really understood the Avengers. And Perez's understated yet fantastic artwork is perfect for the "human" super-hero team.

I did hear an overwhelming amount of positive feedback for John's Avengers run, but I felt it was tepid and very tedious sometimes. Still, much better than the Chuck Austen issues.

I meant that the Busiek/Perez issues were infinitely preferable. He really understood the Avengers. And Perez's understated yet fantastic artwork is perfect for the "human" super-hero team.

See, I think those issues might be too "classic" for me. I've never been an Avengers fan, so for all intents and purposes the Bendis penned Avengers are "my team". I don't doubt those books are good, especially going by the creators, but I wonder if I could get into them. I like the melodrama/modern edge of the Bendis teams.

See, I think those issues might be too "classic" for me. I've never been an Avengers fan, so for all intents and purposes the Bendis penned Avengers are "my team". I don't doubt those books are good, especially going by the creators, but I wonder if I could get into them. I like the melodrama/modern edge of the Bendis teams.

I like the Bendis run because it was different and yet still good. I do agree that the "modern" edge really improved the book. Nearing the end of the Busiek issues, they began to feel somewhat tired. But the classic silver age Avengers stories were great and they're still accessible. That's before Marvel's editorial department went to shit.

After about 25 years of reading Avengers (not continuously of course; I'm not crazy enough to have suffered through the mid 90's sludge), Bendis was what finally drove me to drop the title completely. Forcing myself through Disassembled and the initial "breakout" run must have simply broken my spirit. It was like trying to read an issue of Brigade or Bloodstrike.

I guess for me it was refreshing after a few years of stagnation.

I just read the Wiki entry for the current Batman R.I.P. storyline... is it really as bad as it sounds?

I can't make heads-or-tails out of the RIP stuff, and I just get Batman and Detective Comics, and refuse to get the other titles, so maybe I'm confused because I am not getting the other titles, but given that Batman is currently about some other form of Batman, while Detective deals with the past of Hush, it's awfully confusing to find even a small thread between just those 2 titles for this RIP storyline.

I love Batman, but RIP...yeah, it just isn't for me. I see a lot of people online like it, and that's great, but to me? I just wish Winnick was back on the book.

I don't believe this fully, but sometimes I can't help but wonder if Morrison isn't a bit like PBS. People saying they like his current stories because they want to be "smart" or to be able to "get it". Or maybe I'm just stupid :lol:. Honestly though, I think I just don't care much for the 52 type Morrison (which I think is the way he's writing Final Crisis and RIP), meanwhile classic Morrison is writing one of my favorite books of the last 3 years in All Star Superman.

It's going to work a lot better in trade.

Much like Seven Soldiers. in single issues is was a bit hard to follow. But in trade it's a great read.

I think that's a bit hasty to say. I thought Seven Soldiers' problem was that it was a story that was too big to be told with monthlies. RIP seems like it's just not cohesive storytelling.

All-Star Superman is his magnum opus.

I think that's a bit hasty to say. I thought Seven Soldiers' problem was that it was a story that was too big to be told with monthlies. RIP seems like it's just not cohesive storytelling.

All-Star Superman is his magnum opus.

All-Star Superman!? Please. Animal Man is Grant Morrison's magnum opus. Doom Patrol and Invisibles are also contenders. All-Star Superman is good -- in my opinion, the only* really good thing Morrison has done this decade -- but it's far from Morrison's magnum opus.

* I hear good things about We3, but I'm scared to read it because I get weepy when bad things happen to animals, even fictional cartoon animals.

All-Star Superman!? Please. Animal Man is Grant Morrison's magnum opus. Doom Patrol and Invisibles are also contenders. All-Star Superman is good -- in my opinion, the only* really good thing Morrison has done this decade -- but it's far from Morrison's magnum opus.

* I hear good things about We3, but I'm scared to read it because I get weepy when bad things happen to animals, even fictional cartoon animals.

Well... you've got a point there. Seeing as how no other mainstream DCU book since can compete with Animal Man. That issue with Dolphin always makes me shed a tear...

I've never heard of Animal Man :hscratch:

On other comics - X-Factor finished the 3-part crossover with She-Hulk which was a Secret Invasion tie-in. So far, I'm liking the whole Skrull thing (for the titles I regularly get) and this worked well, although I don't care for when different artists with vastly different styles are used in a 3-part story.

Also out - X-Factor 1-shot getting back (or forward?) to Layla Miller and how she's coping 80 years from now.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a142/Bronkster/SkrullrBanana.gif

I've never heard of Animal Man :hscratch:




Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Man

I don't believe this fully, but sometimes I can't help but wonder if Morrison isn't a bit like PBS. People saying they like his current stories because they want to be "smart" or to be able to "get it". Or maybe I'm just stupid :lol:. Honestly though, I think I just don't care much for the 52 type Morrison (which I think is the way he's writing Final Crisis and RIP), meanwhile classic Morrison is writing one of my favorite books of the last 3 years in All Star Superman.

Ahhh, "Arrested Development" syndrome!

I think you're on to something. I've read Morrison's other stuff, and for the most part it's incomprehensible unless you're under the influence of a lot of mind-altering substances.

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Man

Apparently I'm wrong. :eek: Allow me to respecifize myself: I had no memory of Animal Man. :D

* I hear good things about We3, but I'm scared to read it because I get weepy when bad things happen to animals, even fictional cartoon animals.

As I was reading your post I was already thinking -- what about We3? It can be a rough read, but it's definitely worth it. Especially since he and Quietly make such a great team. I'm curious, have you read Pride of Baghdad?


On other comics - X-Factor finished the 3-part crossover with She-Hulk which was a Secret Invasion tie-in. So far, I'm liking the whole Skrull thing (for the titles I regularly get) and this worked well, although I don't care for when different artists with vastly different styles are used in a 3-part story.

Also out - X-Factor 1-shot getting back (or forward?) to Layla Miller and how she's coping 80 years from now.

X-Factor broke my heart. I LOVED that book for the first 20-sum issues, but then it got pulled into Messiah Complex and I jumped off. I had every intention of jumping back on, but you know how when you leave something sometimes and you lose the drive to go back to it? That is exactly what happened to me with this book. I'm usually fine with events, but this is one of those instances where Marvel's attempt to grab new readers backfired, at least in my case. Also, I saw some art from a recent issue that didn't look good at all.

I've never heard of Animal Man :hscratch:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WGJ2H07YL._SL500_AA240_.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5102TM8KQKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NKF4AMR5L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Morrison had a 26-issue run in the late 80s and early 90s that have been reprinted in three trades (pictured above). I am not exagerating when I say that reading this 26-issue run will change the way you look at comics. As I hope my previous post made clear, I am not particularly a fan of Grant Morrison. I thought his Seven Soldiers and (so far) his Final Crisis were incomprehensible, his JLA pedestrian, and even his All-Star Superman is merely good but not great. Animal Man, though, is one of the best comics ever published. Do yourself a favor and get your hands on it as soon as you can.

As I was reading your post I was already thinking -- what about We3? It can be a rough read, but it's definitely worth it. Especially since he and Quietly make such a great team. I'm curious, have you read Pride of Baghdad?

I liked Pride of Baghdad, and it didn't really upset me too much, so maybe I'm tougher than I think I am. On the other hand, lions are a little more remote and unreal to me than dogs and cats and rabbits. Lions live in the zoo or far off Africa; I've had dogs and cats and rabbits living in my house.

But one of these days, I will have to man-up and read We3.

Morrison had a 26-issue run in the late 80s and early 90s that have been reprinted in three trades (pictured above). I am not exagerating when I say that reading this 26-issue run will change the way you look at comics...Animal Man, though, is one of the best comics ever published. Do yourself a favor and get your hands on it as soon as you can.A-fuckin'-men. Though, I do have to admit to also liking Doom Patrol.

On other comics - X-Factor finished the 3-part crossover with She-Hulk which was a Secret Invasion tie-in. So far, I'm liking the whole Skrull thing (for the titles I regularly get) and this worked well, although I don't care for when different artists with vastly different styles are used in a 3-part story.

Also out - X-Factor 1-shot getting back (or forward?) to Layla Miller and how she's coping 80 years from now.
X-Factor broke my heart. I LOVED that book for the first 20-sum issues, but then it got pulled into Messiah Complex and I jumped off. I had every intention of jumping back on, but you know how when you leave something sometimes and you lose the drive to go back to it? That is exactly what happened to me with this book. I'm usually fine with events, but this is one of those instances where Marvel's attempt to grab new readers backfired, at least in my case. Also, I saw some art from a recent issue that didn't look good at all.Yeah, I really hate when they force books into crossing over. Didn't mind the Messiah Complex thing that much - reading it all in one sitting probably helped (though I skipped the New X-Men issues, so that left a gaping hole...particularly regarding Caliban). Didn't care much for these Secret Invasion issues. It probably could've been told in one issue, instead of three.

I think I'm finally hitting a point of Crisis Tie-In/Mini Meltdown with all of DC's various book.

I never finished Animal Man. I got about 10 issues in and lost interest.

Since it's such a short run, I will probably tackle it again.

I think I'm finally hitting a point of Crisis Tie-In/Mini Meltdown with all of DC's various book.

I hung through with 52 and Countdown (and immediately forgot Animal Man was in there) and am getting only the main Final Crisis series - although I see all the tie-in books at the store. I'm tired of all these big "nothing will be the same" themes. I'd much rather have stuff like the current Action Comics storyline ..

After about 25 years of reading Avengers (not continuously of course; I'm not crazy enough to have suffered through the mid 90's sludge), Bendis was what finally drove me to drop the title completely. Forcing myself through Disassembled and the initial "breakout" run must have simply broken my spirit. It was like trying to read an issue of Brigade or Bloodstrike.

I agree that Disassembled was just terrible. While the Buseik/Perez run did seem to be running out of steam (honestly, while it probably reads better in trad