Sony in Talks With Microsoft, Apple Over Blu-Ray

[arbogast777]

From Financial Times:

Sony Electronics US President Stan Glasgow has revealed that the company is currently in talks with software giant Microsoft with regards to the Blu-ray format. No specific products were mentioned, but it is expected that Microsoft will offer a Blu-ray X-box 360 Add-on, similar to what they offered for the now dead HD DVD format. As it stands, Microsoft's gaming console is at a distinct disadvantage to Sony's PlayStation 3 which includes a Blu-ray player in every console.

Sony is also in talks with Apple, who has been extremely quite about offering Blu-ray drives despite being a part of the Blu-ray Disc Association. It was rumored that Apple was prepared to offer a Blu-ray drive with the latest upgrade of their MacBook Pro laptops, but that there were size and power consumption issues. It is expected that Apple will incorporate Sony's new drives, which are much smaller and use less power, this summer when they are released.

Additionally, Sony predicts that the price of Blu-ray players will fall to $299 by the end of the year. This is not much of a stretch, with the upcoming Sony BDP-S350 carrying a retail price of $399 and coming out way before the 2008 holiday season.

[raven56706]

not much a disadvantage if you picked a 360 for gaming

[GogoTheMimic]

not much a disadvantage if you picked a 360 for gaming

Yeah, no kidding. Too bad you know the Sony fanboys will just use an external BluRay player as another stepping stone to force comparisons between the two consoles. The only one that matters to me is the 360 actually has games. My PS3 is just for watching my handful of BR at this point. lol

[CKMorpheus]

From the Financial Times (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca6017de-eba6-11dc-9493-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1):

Sony is in talks with console rival Microsoft about offering a Blu-ray drive for the Xbox 360, according to a senior executive.

The Japanese electronics maker has until now touted Blu-ray as an advantage its PlayStation 3 holds over Microsoft’s console. Microsoft has backed Toshiba’s HD-DVD format and offered an HD-DVD drive that can be plugged into the 360.

But after Sony’s victory last month in the high-definition DVD format war, Stan Glasgow, Sony Electronics US president, said the two sides were now talking about Microsoft adopting Blu-ray.

A Blu-ray drive in a 360 would make Microsoft more competitive with the PS3, but it would also mean extra revenues for Sony’s electronics division. It would also add further cost to the 360, meaning a premium edition of the console could be necessary.

[DJ_Longfellow]

Would it really mean a premium edition of a console....hmmmm, do they forget the HD-DVD was an ADD-ON. That is all the BD drive would be. They still cannot have games on BD. Internal would be nice, but I don't see that happening until the next gen ;)

[sauce07]

it funny now that sony won the format war the 360 needs a Blu-Ray drive or else it will get left behind in the coming years. I'm not saying this to incite riots but the future is going hi-def and sony holds all the cards in that market.

[matome]

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Microsoft/Microsoft:_“We’ll_support_Blu-ray”/1550

Microsoft: “We’ll support Blu-ray”
Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 03:00 PM ET
Tags: Microsoft (all tags)

Amid rumors that Microsoft is in talks to add Blu-ray support to its Xbox 360 game console, CEO Steve Ballmer has indicated the company’s intention to support the remaining high-def format.

As reported by The Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer took part in an onstage conversation at the company’s Mix08 Internet conference in Las Vegas Thursday, where the topics discussed included Microsoft’s high-def plans following the discontinuation of Toshiba’s HD DVD format.

Without offering specifics, Ballmer said the company will work to support Blu-ray.

“We've already been working on, for example, in Windows, device driver support for Blu-ray drives and the like,” Ballmer stated. “I think the world moves on. Toshiba has moved on. We've moved on, and we'll support Blu-ray in ways that make sense.”

[SoSpacey]

here already (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=526872)

[bretski]

Maybe a BD add-on drive isn't such a pipedream after all...

[Yavin]

"We'll support Blu-ray in ways that make sense"

I guess that means they won't be supporting Blu-ray PS3 games :) ... (kidding, of course). Can't say I'm surprised at this news, but I still find it a little interesting that we'll be seeing Microsoft supporting the proprietary disc format for one of their direct gaming competitors, even though the media they will be supporting on that format won't be games.

[pro-bassoonist]

"We'll support Blu-ray in ways that make sense"


The entire industry has been on the move so their reluctant dicision isn't much of a surprise. Either they make sensible decisions or are left out. And I am sure a certain insider "most likely" never saw such a move.

Hopefully SONY stays as far away as possible from them and when in need of a reason why consults Toshiba.

Ciao,
Pro-B

[Suprmallet]

As someone else said, the Blu-ray drive would most likely be an add-on, not an internal drive for playing games.

[Gerry P.]

As someone else said, the Blu-ray drive would most likely be an add-on, not an internal drive for playing games.Microsoft was supposedly about to release a 360 with a built in HD-DVD. Maybe those plans would be retooled for Blu-ray.

[devynal]

Looking forward to next-gen: I'm guessing Sony's next product will incorporate a Blu-Ray drive has the media can hold a substantial amount.

Microsoft will have to adapt and include a BR drive as well (pending something else doesn't come out by then) or face space limitations of regular DVD media.

So, Sony may have a corner on the videogame market next round.

it funny now that sony won the format war the 360 needs a Blu-Ray drive or else it will get left behind in the coming years. I'm not saying this to incite riots but the future is going hi-def and sony holds all the cards in that market.

Ah sorry, Sauce. You said the same thing. :)

[Draven]

Awesome news - I'd much rather pay less than $200 for an add-on to my 360 than drop $400 for a game machine I don't even want to get the same functionality.

[applesandrice]

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it be a little be funny if Microsoft introduced a Blu-ray Add-on for the 360 and it immediately started out-selling the PS3?

[QuePaso]

Awesome news - I'd much rather pay less than $200 for an add-on to my 360 than drop $400 for a game machine I don't even want to get the same functionality.

It wont be the same, the Xbox 360 can not do Lossless audio, the PS3 can do 7.1 PCM Lossless. Huge difference.

[edstein]

I would prefer an add-on drive. I don't want to buy another 360 just for blu-ray.

[clappj]

It wont be the same, the Xbox 360 can not do Lossless audio, the PS3 can do 7.1 PCM Lossless. Huge difference.

Yeah, it's huge as everyone has a 7.1 SS system these days!

;)

I'll look forward to the possibility of an add-on, but I imagine it'd be pretty expensive if released any time soon.

[JB7]

I doubt I will be buying the add-on anytime soon. Unless a package deal comes along like HD-DVD did with Heroes + 2 free movies or a $50 add-on. LOL

[Drexl]

Regardless of whether they make a console with a built-in BD drive, I think they'll still do an add-on.

[Draven]

It wont be the same, the Xbox 360 can not do Lossless audio, the PS3 can do 7.1 PCM Lossless. Huge difference.

My 5.1 system doesn't give a shit.

[bretski]

I'll look forward to the possibility of an add-on, but I imagine it'd be pretty expensive if released any time soon.

I dunno...a Lite-On BD drive can be had for $130 (at retail). When you consider that MS could probably use the same tooling for the enclosure that they used for the HD DVD add-on, it shouldn't cost that much to make. Of course, we are talking about Microsoft...never mind. ;)

[tonymontana313]

If Microsoft really wants to threaten the PS3, they would include a Blu-ray internal drive to the Elite asap. If they plan to do a Blu-ray add-on, please keep the freaking price reasonable. One of the biggest problems with the hd-dvd add on was the price was ridiculous compared to the Toshiba SAs.

[DVD Polizei]

If MS makes a Blu-ray add-on, having both HD format add-ons would be nice.

[pro-bassoonist]

If Microsoft really wants to threaten the PS3, they would include a Blu-ray internal drive to the Elite asap.

You stepped into the Twilight Zone Tony.

Pro-B

[Shampoohorn]

Were these the same analysts who came up with the fancy 360 with an HD-DVD drive built in?
Microsoft's statement after that post seems pretty clear to me that they will back it in general (as they should and I'm guessing already were with drivers for Media Player and what not), but I highly doubt we'll see a 360 add-on. Why would Microsoft now enter a market where they will be putting out an inferior add-on long after the PS3 has established its market? Sure, PS3 is behind on console sales, but I don't see this add-on boosting the Blu-Ray market at all, nor Microsoft's 360 sales.

Microsoft has a comfortable lead in the console gaming market over PS3, why mess with it with a half-assed add-on?

[splattii2]

Microsoft has a comfortable lead in the console gaming market over PS3, why mess with it with a half-assed add-on?

If there are people out there really buying PS3's primarily as a Blu Ray player, then this move makes sense as it'll take away some potential sales. I own a PS3, and I'll sell it in a heartbeat if I can buy a add-on for my 360. I don't even own a game for my PS3. My PS3 will be gone the second OPPO or the 360 Add-on come out.

[Trevor]

it funny now that sony won the format war the 360 needs a Blu-Ray drive or else it will get left behind in the coming years. I'm not saying this to incite riots but the future is going hi-def and sony holds all the cards in that market.

Hi-def is like 1 or 2% of the DVD market. If it ever tops 10% I'll be surprised.

There are no cards being held by anyone, other than whoever figures out the next media delivery format/system and capitalizes on it.

[dan30oly]

If there are people out there really buying PS3's primarily as a Blu Ray player, then this move makes sense as it'll take away some potential sales. I own a PS3, and I'll sell it in a heartbeat if I can buy a add-on for my 360. I don't even own a game for my PS3. My PS3 will be gone the second OPPO or the 360 Add-on come out.
+1

And, I have at least 3 other friends who own 360's that would buy the blu-ray add-on day 1 of release.

[brianluvdvd]

Wonder what kind of price point they are looking at? If they put out an add-on that equals the cost of a PS3 (or better yet a little less), then it makes sense. If your total cost is going to be more than a PS3, why even do it? Nevermind console sales numbers, the 360 is absolutely destroying the PS3 in software sales. With few big name exclusives for the PS3 coming this year, I don't see that changing at all.

So it is questionable whether this is really needed or not...at least until the next gen's systems. If they can do it at a decent price then fine. I like the idea of a box that does everything but I personally wish gaming systems put all their concentration on games (and yes...that includes the 360's media downloads). The Nintendo Wii did it and it has become a blockbuster in console sales (not so much in software yet).

[dan30oly]

I really don't think an add-on would be more than $200

[tonymontana313]

I really don't think an add-on would be more than $200
But if you add that with the cost of the 360, the PS3 becomes that much more of a bargain.

[CKMorpheus]

But if you add that with the cost of the 360, the PS3 becomes that much more of a bargain.

Another 200 dollars to make the 360 the best possible dual-format player? I think it's a pretty good bargain compared to the ones that are available now.

[Draven]

But if you add that with the cost of the 360, the PS3 becomes that much more of a bargain.

:hscratch: I already own the 360. I don't even want a PS3 for gaming.

[dan30oly]

But if you add that with the cost of the 360, the PS3 becomes that much more of a bargain.
Not until you realize that the 360 has a much, much better selection of games. There's about 2 ps3 exclusive games that are worth a darn, and the rest can be bought on the 360 and a whole bunch of worthy exclusive games...but that argument is best left for videogame talk.

I bought my ps3 for blu-ray only and will never buy more than 5 games on it (only own 1 - Time Crisis 3 - that I have had for two months and have played exactly one time. My 360 gets used on a near daily basis.

[splattii2]

But if you add that with the cost of the 360, the PS3 becomes that much more of a bargain.

There are something like 18 million 360's sold worldwide. In theory that would allow 18 million people to get "Blu" compatible for around $200 if they wanted to. Unless I've missed something, there is no Blu player close to that price point.

[GizmoDVD]

Hi-def is like 1 or 2% of the DVD market. If it ever tops 10% I'll be surprised.

There are no cards being held by anyone, other than whoever figures out the next media delivery format/system and capitalizes on it.

Actually, last year HDM was .58% combined...Blu-ray would be somewhere around .38% of that.

[pro-bassoonist]

There are something like 18 million 360's sold worldwide. In theory that would allow 18 million people to get "Blu" compatible for around $200 if they wanted to. Unless I've missed something, there is no Blu player close to that price point.

Considering that 200$ is a hypothetical price point produced by this forum the analysis offered thus far is nothing more than wishful thinking. So, unless I missed something such a scenario is quite unbelievable.

Pro-B

[dan30oly]

Considering that 200$ is a hypothetical price point produced by this forum the analysis offered thus far is nothing more than wishful thinking. So, unless I missed something such a scenario is quite unbelievable.

Pro-B
The HD-Add on retailed for $179.99 when it came out on the market.
Is it so hard to believe that a blu-ray add on wouldn't be similiarly priced?

[tonymontana313]

You stepped into the Twilight Zone Tony.

Pro-B
I like to wander at times. ;)

[whomod]

Yeah, no kidding. Too bad you know the Sony fanboys will just use an external BluRay player as another stepping stone to force comparisons between the two consoles. The only one that matters to me is the 360 actually has games. My PS3 is just for watching my handful of BR at this point. lol

Same here.

I went out and finally bought the PS3 as newer HD movies will only be released on that format. Not my preference but whatcha gonna do?

When I actually bothered to inquire at Best Buy as to what I could do with the PS3 game-wise that I couldn't on the X-Box 360, since I wanted to get the most out of my PS3 purchase, the clerk(s) just stood there silently and ackwardly until one finally remembered Gran Turismo and suggested that. They added that the X-Box 360 is the way to go game-wise. A suggestion that I already knew.

So right now my PS3 gets used very rarely. I have about 6 Blu-Ray discs and literally thousands of SD DVD's which I play on my Toshiba HD-A20 on account of the better upconversion.

So the PS3 is the console that I need to use. The X-Box 360 and the Toshiba HD-A20 are the ones I LIKE to use (for games and movies respectively). It's not threadcrapping BTW. It's just a statement of fact.

[pro-bassoonist]

The HD-Add on retailed for $179.99 when it came out on the market.
Is it so hard to believe that a blu-ray add on wouldn't be similiarly priced?

Toshiba also sold players for 99$ but I never saw BR machines at that price point. So, yes, the analogy is off and it is hard for me to believe that such an add-on would be a tremendous hit for the rest of the 18mil(?) Xbox owners. Do you know when the add-on will street?

By the end of the year, perhaps even in the Fall, 250$ + will get you a BR player (Funai) so if and when an add-on streets if the difference is around 50$ going by this forum's projection do you really think that the add-on will be such a hit given MS's past record? I don't.

Pro-B

[candyrocket786]

So right now my PS3 gets used very rarely. I have about 6 Blu-Ray discs and literally thousands of SD DVD's which I play on my Toshiba HD-A20 on account of the better upconversion.

So the PS3 is the console that I need to use. The X-Box 360 and the Toshiba HD-A20 are the ones I LIKE to use (for games and movies respectively). It's not threadcrapping BTW. It's just a statement of fact.

Mine is pretty much a decoration on the entertainment center. It does get some BD action a couple of times a month... but that's it. :(

Both of my 360 and A35's are used on a daily basis.

[Suprmallet]

Like the HD DVD add on, a Blu-ray add on will be for people who already own a 360. I don't think it will significantly shift sales numbers, although maybe a few people will decide to get a 360 instead of a PS3 because of it. However, Microsoft would be crazy to sell this over $200.

[candyrocket786]

Like the HD DVD add on, a Blu-ray add on will be for people who already own a 360. I don't think it will significantly shift sales numbers, although maybe a few people will decide to get a 360 instead of a PS3 because of it. However, Microsoft would be crazy to sell this over $200.

If they get it under $179.99 + some type of BD Multi-Disc Rebate then I could see it becoming a great hit with 360 and PC owners (assuming you can connect it to a PC).

[Suprmallet]

As I said, I doubt it would significantly shift sales of the PS3, which I imagine would be Microsoft's main motive.

[edstein]

Microsoft has a working Blu-ray prototype. Rumored street date is May. I see no reason why they couldn't set a $179 price point with an included movie. Newegg has two Lite-ON Blu-ray rom drives both less than $150 right now.

[dman988]

I wonder when Apple will put Blu-Ray drives into their MB Pros.

[DVD Polizei]

As I said, I doubt it would significantly shift sales of the PS3, which I imagine would be Microsoft's main motive.

To some degree, yes. But in the long run, it might. Because we've all discussed the main reason for the PS3, and if we have 1) 360 users who are holding off on Blu-ray because they don't want to purchase a $300 or higher player, and 2) video game enthusiasts would choose the 360 over PS3 if it had Blu-ray support, then a $150-$180 MSRP might be tempting.

[CKMorpheus]

I (and many of my friends) would purchase a Blu-Ray add-on for our 360s on day one, for a reasonable price, of course.

[tonymontana313]

I wonder when Apple will put Blu-Ray drives into their MB Pros.
This is actually a more important question considering how popular Apple's download services are.

[wewantflair]

This is actually a more important question considering how popular Apple's download services are.

How is that related in any way to notebooks? I'm not too sure BD drives in Apple computers will be relevant in any way, seeing as how they they are still pushing DVI connectivity with their televisions over HDMI.

Meanwhile, companies like HP in particular are including video cards that output audio over HDMI and are selling HTPC-capable machines pre-built at a very reasonable cost(with dual-format playback, to boot!).

I think Microsoft's opening talks with the BD camp will actually strengthen the viability of HDM via HTPC (which, admittedly, still has a long way to go), which is far more interesting to me than just another video game add-on.

[Shazam]

Microsoft has a working Blu-ray prototype. Rumored street date is May. I see no reason why they couldn't set a $179 price point with an included movie. Newegg has two Lite-ON Blu-ray rom drives both less than $150 right now.Yes, and MS doesn't even have to make money on selling the BR attachment.

[Qui Gon Jim]

Ahh.

This thread is VERY illuminating. It truly does show who is all about backing Blu-Ray for watching the best possible quality, and who is all about Sony worship.

It is absolutely in the best interests of the Blu-Ray format to have as many possible options for consumers as possible, a fact that you, Pro-B, hammered home again and again and again as a knock on HD DVD's limited hardware support.

However, the 360 getting an add-on would be disastrous for Ps3 and Sony (games division at least). Even if the total expense of getting a 360 with a BD add-on is more than the cost of getting a PS3, it will still be cheaper for 360 owners who want BD playback to get this device rather than paying for a PS3.

Pro-B calls TonyMontana out for thinking this is a positive. It is. I cannot BELIEVE you are insinuating that Microsoft is just one failure after another. I am no MS lover, but they have a few somewhat successful products, I think. Certainly they don't have as many failed products in their wake as Sony does.

Again, very illuminating, this thread is.

[splattii2]

Toshiba also sold players for 99$ but I never saw BR machines at that price point. So, yes, the analogy is off and it is hard for me to believe that such an add-on would be a tremendous hit for the rest of the 18mil(?) Xbox owners. Do you know when the add-on will street?

By the end of the year, perhaps even in the Fall, 250$ + will get you a BR player (Funai) so if and when an add-on streets if the difference is around 50$ going by this forum's projection do you really think that the add-on will be such a hit given MS's past record? I don't.

Pro-B

Yes, but when the add-on was introduced at $199 there wasn't an HD player below $300 was there? Sounds kind of like the current BD situation doesn't it? The $99 players came long after the 360 addon was released. Many people have defended the purchase of a PS3 by stating they are also getting a multimedia machine as opposed to just a DVD player. I would use the same argument for a 360 with a Blu add on. I'll take it any day of the week over a standalone unless there is a standalone that's region free. My 360 can play PAL and NTSC upconverted. All I need is that BD addon and I'm laughing :)

Now that I think about it, is there any other player on the market that plays PAL, NTSC and Blu Ray at any price point? Granted the 360 has to be hacked to play PAL, it is still possible.

[Shazam]

Ahh.

This thread is VERY illuminating. It truly does show who is all about backing Blu-Ray for watching the best possible quality, and who is all about Sony worship.If anyone can make BR a success, it's Microsoft.

[pro-bassoonist]

This thread is VERY illuminating. It truly does show who is all about backing Blu-Ray for watching the best possible quality, and who is all about Sony worship.


Agreed on count one: this is an illuminating thread!

Now, here's your chance to prove that I am wrong and you are the one who has been following recent trends closely. Find and quote an analysis that explains why Microsoft will opt for an internal Blu-Ray drive instead of an external one, why an internal drive is possible at this stage and external one isn't.

Ciao,
Pro-B

[pro-bassoonist]

Yes, but when the add-on was introduced at $199 there wasn't an HD player below $300 was there? Sounds kind of like the current BD situation doesn't it?

Not quite. There are a number of BR machines coming this summer/fall and my feeling is that an external drive within 50$ or less with the closest BR machine will not be a mass success. The breaking point here is again the speculation on both sides - where the BR add-on will be in terms of pricing and how fast the lower end BR machines will street.


Now that I think about it, is there any other player on the market that plays PAL, NTSC and Blu Ray at any price point? Granted the 360 has to be hacked to play PAL, it is still possible.

This is irrelevant as just about all of the BR players are hackable as well. Granted the two sites that do it at the moment are not US-based.

Pro-B

[Suprmallet]

Now, here's your chance to prove that I am wrong and you are the one who has been following recent trends closely. Find and quote an analysis that explains why Microsoft will opt for an internal Blu-Ray drive instead of an external one, why an internal drive is possible at this stage and external one isn't.


Why should Microsoft opt for an internal drive? All that would do is slow down the gameplay on the system, as Blu-ray drives currently don't read as fast as DVD drives. That's why the PS3 requires so many games to load large files to the HDD. Microsoft can't do that, as their HDD isn't a required part of the system, so they need the faster read times of the DVD drive. But since a Blu-ray drive would be for movie playback only anyway, who cares if it's internal or external?

[DVD Polizei]

Why doesn't MS simply sign up on Sony's website to become an affiliate to sell PS3's. :)

Why would MS want to take a chance at creating an internal Blu-ray drive. HD DVD died in how many years, and I would imagine MS is asking itself if they created an internal Blu-ray drive, how long Blu-ray will last.

It makes more sense to create an external drive, thereby keeping their main system free from any market hickups which might happen later on. If Blu-ray is a proven format, then maybe we'll see somekind of development announcement around Christmas 2009, but still, why not just create an add-on accessory. It would probably mean a better profit anyway if you produced an external add-on drive.

[dan30oly]

Agreed on count one: this is an illuminating thread!

Now, here's your chance to prove that I am wrong and you are the one who has been following recent trends closely. Find and quote an analysis that explains why Microsoft will opt for an internal Blu-Ray drive instead of an external one, why an internal drive is possible at this stage and external one isn't.

Ciao,
Pro-B
Who started all this "internal blu-ray drive" on the 360 non-sense???

If they wouldn't do an internal HD-DVD drive on the 360, there's no way in hell they would ever do so with a slower-reading blu-ray drive.

At this point (with the format war being over), an external blu-ray drive for the 360 would be a success - at the right price.

[tonymontana313]

If Microsoft did make a BD external drive, would it be too much to ask to make it look more aesthetically pleasing than the hd-dvd add on? Granted, this is coming from the owner that owns the winner of the George Foreman grill lookalike contest, but still....

[chanster]

Actually a Blu-Ray external drive has always made sense for MS...but I think they were content on forcing Sony to spend billions of marketing dollars to ensure the viability of Blu Ray...they then could come in and make one. In fact, I'm surprised that Sony would even consider letting the BDA license Blu Ray to MS...but I'm guessing the studios are probably putting pressure on Sony to get as much Blu Ray hardware out there.

[pro-bassoonist]

Who started all this "internal blu-ray drive" on the 360 non-sense???

If they wouldn't do an internal HD-DVD drive on the 360, there's no way in hell they would ever do so with a slower-reading blu-ray drive.


Read:

If Microsoft really wants to threaten the PS3, they would include a Blu-ray internal drive to the Elite asap.

You stepped into the Twilight Zone Tony.

Pro-B

Ahh.

This thread is VERY illuminating. It truly does show who is all about backing Blu-Ray for watching the best possible quality, and who is all about Sony worship.

It is absolutely in the best interests of the Blu-Ray format to have as many possible options for consumers as possible, a fact that you, Pro-B, hammered home again and again and again as a knock on HD DVD's limited hardware support.

However, the 360 getting an add-on would be disastrous for Ps3 and Sony (games division at least). Even if the total expense of getting a 360 with a BD add-on is more than the cost of getting a PS3, it will still be cheaper for 360 owners who want BD playback to get this device rather than paying for a PS3.

Pro-B calls TonyMontana out for thinking this is a positive. It is. I cannot BELIEVE you are insinuating that Microsoft is just one failure after another. I am no MS lover, but they have a few somewhat successful products, I think. Certainly they don't have as many failed products in their wake as Sony does.

Again, very illuminating, this thread is.

Agreed on count one: this is an illuminating thread!

Now, here's your chance to prove that I am wrong and you are the one who has been following recent trends closely. Find and quote an analysis that explains why Microsoft will opt for an internal Blu-Ray drive instead of an external one, why an internal drive is possible at this stage and external one isn't.

Ciao,
Pro-B


So, to sum it all up: the gentleman who insists that my belief that an internal X-Box BR drive is improbable is a sure sign of SONY worshiping - a veiled way of calling one a SONY fanboy. Furthermore, he is also the one who has been insinuating here, hence my call for an analysis that justifies his accusation above. My initial remark revealed improbability, an observation you seem to be content with as well.

Ciao,
Pro-B

[Draven]

It boils down to this for me: before I got a killer deal (at the time) on an HD DVD player, I was going to purchase the 360 add-on. I already had the 360 and it was the cheapest way to get in the game.

If they come out with a Blu-ray add-on for 360 that is cheaper than an actual player, I'd rather buy that than a PS3, since I have no interest in any PS3 games. So from my perspective, it would be a great option.

That's why I'm hoping they do it.

[Suprmallet]

The logic in this thread makes my head hurt.

[sracer]

It boils down to this for me: before I got a killer deal (at the time) on an HD DVD player, I was going to purchase the 360 add-on. I already had the 360 and it was the cheapest way to get in the game.

If they come out with a Blu-ray add-on for 360 that is cheaper than an actual player, I'd rather buy that than a PS3, since I have no interest in any PS3 games. So from my perspective, it would be a great option.

That's why I'm hoping they do it.
All issues with the 360 aside, unless you have a 360 with HDMI, why would you prefer to watch high-def video over component video?

IMO, these drive add-ons only made sense while the format war was going on. Now that the winner has been determined, buying an add-on seems like an inefficient way to get into the game.

[clappj]

Because they were so good at making HD-DVD successful.

Because Microsoft's success has historically come from taking other companies' technologies, and making them more accessible to "he masses.

[brianluvdvd]

All issues with the 360 aside, unless you have a 360 with HDMI, why would you prefer to watch high-def video over component video?



Why not? My HDTV was bought long before the days of HDMI. I still enjoy HD-DVD.

And every 360 comes with HDMI standard now anyway and has for awhile.


Because they were so good at making HD-DVD successful.

Do you really think they tried? They made a peripheral and that was it. I never saw them push HD-DVD once.

[Jericho]

All issues with the 360 aside, unless you have a 360 with HDMI, why would you prefer to watch high-def video over component video?

IMO, these drive add-ons only made sense while the format war was going on. Now that the winner has been determined, buying an add-on seems like an inefficient way to get into the game.

What's wrong with component video? It passes a 1080i signal, and you'd be hard pressed to really tell a difference between a 1080i and a 1080p signal coming from a Blu-Ray disc.

[Goldblum]

Sony has made all the smart moves re: Blu-Ray so far. I think it's likely they'll continue to do so.

[candyrocket786]

Because they were so good at making HD-DVD successful.

If Toshiba had stepped it up a notch, then it could've been successful.

[Draven]

All issues with the 360 aside, unless you have a 360 with HDMI, why would you prefer to watch high-def video over component video?

IMO, these drive add-ons only made sense while the format war was going on. Now that the winner has been determined, buying an add-on seems like an inefficient way to get into the game.

My projector only does 1080i anyway, so it doesn't matter. And it doesn't have HDMI - I used an adapter to try it out and I couldn't tell the difference between the component and the HDMI images, flipping back and forth.

I want the cheapest Blu-ray player, period. And I don't want to pay for something I'm not interested in using (PS3 gaming). So again, the add-on option is ideal for me.

[pro-bassoonist]

Because Microsoft's success has historically come from taking other companies' technologies, and making them more accessible to "he masses.

I am going to quote a post from another forum by another member:


Originally Posted by Cyan:
People that think that this is going to hurt the PS3 are being too simplistic and bitter. In the long run, this move will likely encourage people that normally would have bought a 360 to buy a PS3 instead, because of price point(s)/value.

I mean, BR for the 360 will, quite obviously, come as an add-on. One that will cost at least $99, and probably $149-199 if we're being realistic. This is on top of, minimum, $350 to get a 360 that has any kind of HD(and at this point, MS should just stop producing the HD-less version(s), because they're a joke). Plus another $99 if you care about it having wireless capabilities. Plus LIVE costs $50/yr. Plus the 360 remotes require batteries. Etc. So, you can spend $a minimum of 600 initially, plus 100/year or so for LIVE/batteries, for a flatly inferior(20GB HD Space instead of 80GB) 360..or you can spend $500 for a PS3 with 80GB HD space. Home will be free, and the PS3 remotes don't require batteries. If MS chooses to release a BR add-on, price point suddenly becomes Advantage: Sony instead of Disadvantage: Sony like it has been previously.

So please, please, MS, release a BR add-on.

Pro-B

[Tracer Bullet]

I want the cheapest Blu-ray player, period. And I don't want to pay for something I'm not interested in using (PS3 gaming). So again, the add-on option is ideal for me.

I have to say, I bought a PS3 on Friday and it's a great player. You put a disc in and it starts playing automatically- you don't even need to futz around with it. It's as easy as a stand-alone player.

I can understand not wanting to pay $400 for a Blu-ray player, though. I wasn't going to do it, but I broke down.

[Tracer Bullet]

I am going to quote a post from another forum by another member:



Pro-B

If you know anything at all about the video game market, this makes very little sense. The PS3 has been out for a year and a half and still doesn't have any system sellers. Even if people started snapping up PS3s over 360s based on Blu-ray (doubtful, but let's assume so) it would take about a year for those sales to be felt and for publishers to get games out.

Also, as someone who now owns both a PS3 and a 360, I don't plan on using my PS3 for gaming at all, barring a must-have exclusive. The user experience is so much better on the 360 it's not even funny.

[pro-bassoonist]

If you know anything at all about the video game market, this makes very little sense. The PS3 has been out for a year and a half and still doesn't have any system sellers. Even if people started snapping up PS3s over 360s based on Blu-ray (doubtful, but let's assume so) it would take about a year for those sales to be felt and for publishers to get games out.


I don't think anyone is planning on having immediate results, certainly not in the next two-three months. So, up to an year is the expected time frame many have in mind (that would be games that are/were set to be released later in the year). Particularly given the fact that even the parties who were involved in the war did not expect January to be its finale.

So, we shall wait and see if SONY have projected the market accordingly.

Ciao,
Pro-B

[candyrocket786]

People that think that this is going to hurt the PS3 are being too simplistic and bitter. In the long run, this move will likely encourage people that normally would have bought a 360 to buy a PS3 instead, because of price point(s)/value.

I mean, BR for the 360 will, quite obviously, come as an add-on. One that will cost at least $99, and probably $149-199 if we're being realistic. This is on top of, minimum, $350 to get a 360 that has any kind of HD(and at this point, MS should just stop producing the HD-less version(s), because they're a joke). Plus another $99 if you care about it having wireless capabilities. Plus LIVE costs $50/yr. Plus the 360 remotes require batteries. Etc. So, you can spend $a minimum of 600 initially, plus 100/year or so for LIVE/batteries, for a flatly inferior(20GB HD Space instead of 80GB) 360..or you can spend $500 for a PS3 with 80GB HD space. Home will be free, and the PS3 remotes don't require batteries. If MS chooses to release a BR add-on, price point suddenly becomes Advantage: Sony instead of Disadvantage: Sony like it has been previously.

So please, please, MS, release a BR add-on.


Cheap Wireless Adapters

This one is cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WGA54G-Wireless-G-Gaming-Adapter/dp/B00009X6DT

Or you could get the B version for about $40.

Play n Charge Kit - no more batteries
http://www.amazon.com/Play-Charge-Kitfor-Hardcore-Gamingxbox/dp/B0011E4J7O/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1205167651&sr=1-5


$50 for Live? Well worth it!

I still have about 15 gb left on my HD. :up:

:D

[candyrocket786]

Also, as someone who now owns both a PS3 and a 360, I don't plan on using my PS3 for gaming at all, barring a must-have exclusive. The user experience is so much better on the 360 it's not even funny.

Are there any more must-have exclusives?

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't think anyone is planning on having immediate results, certainly not in the next two-three months. So, up to an year is the expected time frame many have in mind (that would be games that are/were set to be released later in the year). Particularly given the fact that even the parties who were involved in the war did not expect January to be its finale.

All I'm saying is people looking to buy a console to play games aren't going to buy a PS3 because it has Blu-ray.

[Tracer Bullet]

Are there any more must-have exclusives?

I would argue there haven't been any for the PS3. Certainly not system-sellers, maybe "well I own this thing so I may as well buy a game for it" titles.

[Qui Gon Jim]

What I love is Sony's mythical ability to make a competitor completely freeze. "BD will only get better" while ignoring that HD DVD would have gotten better in the same time frame.

"PS3 will only get better and catch right up" assuming that 360 just completely withers and dies on the vine. Unlikely. If anyone has projected the market correctly, it is Microsoft. They had a HD DVD drive for those people that wanted to watch HD movies on disc. They will soon have a similar BD device as well. They come in at a lower price point and at a year's head start, and they lead the market.

Sony had total dominance over the last generation of video game hardware. The BADLY misread the market. The win for BD may end up being nothing more than a footnote in history. They could have easily dominated this generation of gaming if they had just not forced Blu-Ray into their product, delaying it and making the MSRP skyrocket.

IMO, Sony has already blundered on such an epic scale, it is astounding.

[Qui Gon Jim]

All I'm saying is people looking to buy a console to play games aren't going to buy a PS3 because it has Blu-ray.
I could not possibly agree more.

[pro-bassoonist]

IMO, Sony has already blundered on such an epic scale, it is astounding.

I believe that it would be best if at this point you stop insinuating false theories and neglect the fact that the PS3 has been the most flexible and reliable system on the market. It secured Blu-Ray as the winner (projected by SONY), it has proven to be the more durable machine, and it has forced their main rival to consider its standard profile. This does not equate blunder to me, rather it has future written all over it.

This piece on the other hand posted only two days ago reveals that some former HDDVD backers and their products do indeed freeze. In great numbers:



Red Ring of Failure

Is your Xbox 360 still working? You must be one of the lucky ones.

By Mike Smith

Over 18 million Xbox 360s have sold through since the console's launch in November 2005, but just how many of those are still working? Squaretrade, a company that specializes in providing warranty support to purchasers of electronic goods from various manufacturers, claims 16% of Xbox 360s experience a hardware failure within six to ten months after a warranty purchase. Three out of every five failures were for the infamous "Red Ring of Death" general hardware failure error, a problem often linked to overheating.

The Xbox's figures compare poorly to competing consoles, which have a failure rate of around 3% -- and if anything, the Squaretrade figure underestimates the scale of the Xbox 360's reliability issues. It's a good bet that some buyers of Squaretrade warranties went straight to Microsoft after experiencing hardware issues and don't factor into the 16% number. On its company blog, Squaretrade pointed out that failure rates are "certain to go up" as the machines in their study group grow older.

Microsoft is cagey about coughing up official failure rate figures, which has lead some commentators to speculate about the actual severity of the problem. Luke Plunkett, a blogger on respected games news site Kotaku, said in a recent post that if the real failure rate wasn't in the 30-40% range, he'd "wolf down humble pie until his sides split."

Plunkett's sides are likely safe. Stories of 360 owners making their way through eight or nine consoles aren't hard to find, but to its credit, Microsoft has been working with the affected individual in at least one of those cases to lessen the impact of the constant failures.

16 Percent of Xbox 360s Are Likely to Break, Report Claims

Even so, there's a surprise lurking for consumers who return their 360s for repair. When you purchase content -- arcade games, extra tracks, etc. -- over Xbox Live, it's playable by any user on the console you used to make the transaction. If you go to a different console and sign in with your gamertag, you can download the content and play it only for as long as you're signed in. Once you move back to your main machine, it will no longer be playable. Sounds like a handy system to let you take the content you own from place to place, right?

But the trick with this system is that once a broken machine returns from its little vacation, it generally has sufficient internal changes to make it look, to Xbox Live, like a different console. So all your downloaded content -- which, if you're a heavy user, could amount to hundreds of dollars worth of purchases -- are only accessible to one gamertag, and only when the console has a live internet connection.

Getting this situation resolved can be difficult. Affected users have reported having to make repeated calls to the Xbox support line, often to no avail. Some fortunate individuals were able to eventually convince the MS reps to refund all the points they'd spent so they could repurchase all the affected content, although they had to do it using a different gamertag.
How to Avoid Hardware Problems

* Air it out. Many failures are attributed to the inadequate cooling system of early-model 360s, so anything you can do to give it an easier time will pay off. Make sure you put the console in a place with cool, steady airflow.
* Move it and lose it. Don't change the orientation of the console when it's running. The DVD drive's running gear isn't as well secured as it could be, so knocking over a vertically-standing console can cause the machinery to collide with the disc surface. Characteristic circular scratches are the result and are generally fatal for the game.
* Think new. Thanks to a well-publicized cooling system redesign, newer machines are less likely to suffer problems. Any console bought in the last six months or so should have much better chances of surviving.

Red Ring of Death: What to do

Is it a "real" red ring of death? Somewhat confusingly, the true red ring error only has three of the four quarters of the ring illuminated. If all four are lit up, you have a much simpler problem: your A/V cable is loose!

Enterprising 360 owners have discovered a homebrewed way to fix the problem, although it only works for a short period of time. It involves turning on your console, wrapping it tightly in a towel, and leaving it on for 20-25 minutes. This might void your warranty from Microsoft, so consider yourself warned.

If all else fails, hit up the Xbox web site to request a warranty repair. They'll send you a cardboard "coffin" for you to return your console and send back a fixed machine in a few weeks. The official warranty was extended to three years for this specific problem, so even launch-day 360s are technically still covered.
http://us.i1.yimg.com/videogames.yahoo.com/feature/red-ring-of-failure/1192354

Let us know when the PS3 begins generating such mass reports.

Ciao.
Pro-B

[SoSpacey]

Blu-ray was a big reason I went with a PS3. I only own about 7 games for it but I am not a huge gamer, but I did want to have a game system.

paying for Live was a big drawback.
HD capabilities out of the box was a big reason i went with the ps3.
the fact that there a re SO MANY problems with the 360 was the final decision maker.

My PS3 (60gb) has been exactly what I wanted...great gaming system, media server, blu-ray player, rock solid, etc.

I consider myself pretty unbiased...I hate both MS and Sony. The PS3 was the clear winner for me.

I suppose if you are an intense gamer you can justify the 360, but I don't get it.

[exm]

Blu-ray was a big reason I went with a PS3. I only own about 7 games for it but I am not a huge gamer, but I did want to have a game system.

paying for Live was a big drawback.
HD capabilities out of the box was a big reason i went with the ps3.
the fact that there a re SO MANY problems with the 360 was the final decision maker.

My PS3 (60gb) has been exactly what I wanted...great gaming system, media server, blu-ray player, rock solid, etc.

I consider myself pretty unbiased...I hate both MS and Sony. The PS3 was the clear winner for me.

I suppose if you are an intense gamer you can justify the 360, but I don't get it.

The PS3 is a great machine, but games are just better on the XBOX and the XBOX Live community is something special. Yes, you have to pay for XBOX Live and Yes, there were a lot of hardware issues with the XBOX 360, but the PS3 can't touch the XBOX 360 if you're a serious gamer.

[GizmoDVD]

Bought my PS3 in January 2007...I own 0 PS3 games and 0 PS2 games. The only titles that look somewhat interesting are Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank. However I have a huge backlog on the 360 and Wii so I doubt I will ever get around to them.

[Tracer Bullet]

I believe that it would be best if at this point you stop insinuating false theories and neglect the fact that the PS3 has been the most flexible and reliable system on the market. It secured Blu-Ray as the winner (projected by SONY), it has proven to be the more durable machine, and it has forced their main rival to consider its standard profile. This does not equate blunder to me, rather it has future written all over it.

Pro-B, with all due respect, you are posting nonsense and obviously do not know anything about the video game market. The PS3 is extremely reliable, that is true. However, one look at the long thread about the RRoD in Video Game Talk would tell you that gamers aren't revolting against the 360 because of this problem.

You also fail to realize that for gamers, Blu-ray is not a selling point, and the inclusion of BD in the PS3 dug a huge hole that the system is still trying to claw its way out of.

Finally, the PS3 has very few exclusive games, and arguably no system sellers. This is what matters when we talk about the PS3 gaining market share, not Blu-ray. I would argue that the market of people willing to pay $400 for any Blu-ray player is at or is reaching saturation.

The PS3 helped kickstart Blu-ray, but it's not going to be the path to mass adoption, nor is it going to help the PS3 overtake the 360.

[bunkaroo]

Even though I own a 360 again (01/08 build thank God), I still buy all cross-platform games for the PS3 simply because it is the more reliable machine.

The last thing I need in May is to be heavily involved with GTA4 only to be down for a month. I don't care about achievements either. :)

[FantasticVSDoom]

I love my PS3 as a BD player, but like its been echoed here many times, there is not one game that I must own, and the only reason I have any games for the PS3 was because I said "Well, I guess I should get some games since I bought this thing" and have DMC4, The Darkness, and Stranglehold (which was actually the only game so far was a must have PS3 game over 360 since there was a a faux exclusive of Hardboiled in HD on it, and I still waited to get it used). Fact is at this point, its pretty much no where near the exclusives of a 360 or Wii (which just put out a huge must have system seller) and you cant even compare Xbox Live to the PS-Network. The most important point however is that the 360 continues to sell inspite of all the problems with RROD which should tell you something.

The add on is a good idea strictly from the stand point that there are alot of 360 owners out there who may just buy it, who wouldnt otherwise. Anything that leads to greater adoption of BD now is good in my opinion. Its the only way for it to even come close to reaching DVD status.

[bunkaroo]

I just want to make the point that while there are not many "must own" PS3 exclusives, there are certainly plenty of "must own" games available for the PS3: COD4, Rock Band, GH3, the upcoming GTA4, Oblivion, etc. If one does not own a 360, there are plenty of games to buy for the PS3.

I think for hardcore gamers who have owned a 360 for a while, the PS3 certainly seems like it has no games, but for those like me who got a PS3 first, it's been fine.

In fact I only bought the 360 to get a few 360 exclusive games and access to some older movie downloads from Marketplace.

[tonymontana313]

Whoa, to say the PS3 has no good exclusives is pretty broad. Uncharted has been the single best immersive experience I've ever had with a single person campaign. Ninja Gaiden Sigma is pretty great as well. I will say I do prefer the 360 for the online service for right now.

[Tracer Bullet]

Whoa, to say the PS3 has no good exclusives is pretty broad. Uncharted has been the single best immersive experience I've ever had with a single person campaign. Ninja Gaiden Sigma is pretty great as well. I will say I do prefer the 360 for the online service for right now.

I didn't say the PS3 "has no good exclusives". I did say that the PS3 has no system sellers. Disagree?

[Suprmallet]

I love the theory that a Blu-ray add on for the 360 would increase PS3 sales. :lol:

Look, the PS3 is a strong, reliable, and versatile machine. I am in no way disputing those claims. However, content is king and the 360 has the content. While games like Uncharted and Warhawk are excellent gaming experiences, none of them screams "You must own a PS3!" Whereas games like Halo, Bioshock, Gears of War, Mass Effect, and others do scream "You must own a 360!" And for $50 you get the best online console experience available. The PSN doesn't even come close, and I don't think Home is suddenly going to change all of that.

But, if we want to really put things in perspective, we should all take a look at the Nintendo Wii. With no video playback capabilities at all (the damn thing doesn't even play DVD), the Wii has been a constant sell out since its release, due to excellent marketing and some really great games. True, the system also has the most cheap cash in titles I've seen for any of the systems, but those aren't what's selling the consoles. Titles like The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Super Mario Galaxy, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, the upcoming Wii Fit, and more have propelled the console to all kinds of success. This should tell you what's important to gamers: The games. Of course, Nintendo has done a great job marketing the system to non-gamers, but the point is that for 95% of the gaming market, HDM is one of the lowest priorities on their list. To suggest that a Blu-ray add-on is going to significantly affect that is silly.

What Sony needs to do now is get some absolutely stellar, 10/10, must own games to come out exclusively for the PS3, otherwise they will forever trail behind the dust clouds of Nintendo and Microsoft in this gaming generation.

[The Third Jake]

People that think that this is going to hurt the PS3 are being too simplistic and bitter. In the long run, this move will likely encourage people that normally would have bought a 360 to buy a PS3 instead, because of price point(s)/value.

I mean, BR for the 360 will, quite obviously, come as an add-on. One that will cost at least $99, and probably $149-199 if we're being realistic. This is on top of, minimum, $350 to get a 360 that has any kind of HD(and at this point, MS should just stop producing the HD-less version(s), because they're a joke). Plus another $99 if you care about it having wireless capabilities. Plus LIVE costs $50/yr. Plus the 360 remotes require batteries. Etc. So, you can spend $a minimum of 600 initially, plus 100/year or so for LIVE/batteries, for a flatly inferior(20GB HD Space instead of 80GB) 360..or you can spend $500 for a PS3 with 80GB HD space. Home will be free, and the PS3 remotes don't require batteries. If MS chooses to release a BR add-on, price point suddenly becomes Advantage: Sony instead of Disadvantage: Sony like it has been previously.

So please, please, MS, release a BR add-on.
The thinking in this post is...let's say poor.

The entire argument is based on the premise that Sony is looking to sell the PS3 to that market of gamers out there who are just itching to drop hundreds of dollars on a gaming console, but haven't yet purchased either a PS3 or a 360. Huh? Who the hell are these people, and how many of them could there possibly be?

No, what Sony needs to do is sell PS3s to people who already own 360s, and the release of a Blu-Ray add-on drive for the 360 makes the PS3 a much tougher sell to that market.

Hell, after the Warner announcement, I was primed and ready to get myself a PS3. I went out and did my research to find which was best for me, and after the laborious task of sorting through Sony's SKU shenanigans, I found that the configuration that most matched what I wanted was no longer even available in the mass market. So I said screw it and decided to wait for a 360 add-on or an affordable standalone, one of which now seems well on its way to finding a place atop my 360. And now, I can honestly say the chances of a PS3 ever finding its way into my home are about 1%, and that 1% is merely the chance of an overzealous friend or family member one day giving it to me as a gift.

Really, a Blu-Ray add-on for the 360 will help the PS3? Only if someone comes and confiscates my 360.

[QuePaso]

Its funny to hear people say the PS3 "Has no games". Not everyone who was in the gaming community now owns a 360 (120+ million PS2s sold worldwide vs 17 mil xbox 360s sold worldwide). The PS3 also has better or equal multi-platform games in the form of newer titles like DMC4, Burnout Paradise, COD4, Dirt and a few others. Studios like Lucasarts, Criterion and others are now making the PS3 the lead platform. The PSN is also not littered with garbage shareware titles that arent worth the bandwidth wasted on them. I have both 360 and PS3, they're both great machines, and Xbox live works great.

That said, Xbox live is also a joke, with enough children with mic's cussing you out, calling you racial slurs and other things that it ruins the experience. I play online with the PS3 often and ive never had any issues with lag, logging in, etc etc. XBOX Live has been really poor in this regard for the past 2-3 months, sometimes it takes 2 minutes for me to turn on my console and then watch a stupid spinning circle to get me logged into Xbox live and check my content. Unacceptable for a service they charge for.

PSN works PERFECT for online gaming, which is basically the #1 reason to have your console online. Ive never jumped into a game on the PSN and had a lag fest, which can happen on the 360 quite often. PS3 games also have servers run by sony which kick booty. Try playing Warhawk or Unreal Tourney 3 online using the dedicated servers, it is AMAZINGLY well done and no lag at all. Also, the PSN has nowhere to go but up, they can keep adding better and more features (like 17 item download queue vs 4 on the 360).

Again, i DO own both systems, and man do i love Gears of war!! But the majority of gamers HAVE NOT spoken, and with blu-ray winning the HD war, the PS3 is now looking like the "No Brainer" system for people who never had a 360 and are deciding to pick between the 2. The 360 may have a lot more Must Haves at the moment, but gamers do not buy systems based on last years games. Bioshock will be forgotten, as will Mass Effect and whatever else. Its all about whats coming out and whats hot now, and thats where the 360 looks like its in real trouble compared to the PS3 looking like having a amazing 2008 slate with 2009 littered with amazing titles from all the studios it has under its wing exclusively (Sony owns more gaming studios then any other company in the world). Also, last year in 2007, the PS3 outsold the 360 worldwide, the PS3 outsold the 360 in NA in janruary 08 as well. The majority of the 360 exclusives coming out are almost a clone of whats already out, with more FPS gamer, american-style RPG's (with a few token japanese ones thrown in), and more racers. The system is becoming a clone of the Xbox 1.

I really feel that the PS3 will really take the top spot soon enough. Those hardcore 360 gamers are just that, Hardcore. A system has to balance with every demographic, and the 360 fails IMHO on a overall level.

[Draven]

So once again it's all about the future. How much time does Sony get to deliver more than 2 or 3 games worth getting on the console before we can criticize them?

And why did they feel the need to force an HD format that few people actually want down everyone's throat for the privilege of playing a new Ratchet and Clank game or Uncharted?

How about those EA sports franchises? I just listened to a 1up podcast that mentioned how once again the PS3 stuff isn't as good as the 360. How many chances do they get? And I'd love to play online on PS3 with my friends...too bad all of them have 360s and have no intentions of picking up Sony's Blu-ray player (that plays games too!).

The fact of the matter is that from Day One Sony has been saying that the future doesn't start until they say it does. "Winning" the HD war is fine, but it has dick-all to do with gaming. And until they can turn the PS3 into an actual game machine, with awesome games you can't get anywhere else, well...I guess it's easy to say you'll win if you never actually start playing.

EDIT: I wouldn't drag out PS2 figures to support your point. PS2 sales (after 8 years) are actually an indication of how badly Sony dropped the ball on the PS3.

[Adam Tyner]

Please remember that this isn't the video game forum, although the same console bashing rules that apply there do apply here as well.

[tonymontana313]

What Sony needs to do now is get some absolutely stellar, 10/10, must own games to come out exclusively for the PS3, otherwise they will forever trail behind the dust clouds of Nintendo and Microsoft in this gaming generation.
Final Fantasy 13, Final Fantasy 13 Versus, Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5, Little Big Planet, Killzone 2, Infamous, Resistance 2, White Knight Chronicles (Level 5 is making it) and Tekken 6 seem to fit the criteria you're looking for. :D


Before someone starts with the " Final Fantasy is not coming out this year", here's a little something I just found that says we may get it this year afterall.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/858/858038p1.html

[Suprmallet]

If those titles come out in a timely fashion, then the PS3 may have a fighting chance. Absolutely. I don't think Tekken 6 is a system seller, though. Resistance 2 isn't, either. The only reason Resistance sold so well on the PS3 is that it was the only launch title worth a damn. I don't think the sequel will do nearly as well. The FF games, MGS, Gran Turismo, Killzone, and maybe Little Big Planet will do very well. I personally can't wait for MGS and Little Big Planet.

But again, this just hammers home my point that the console wars are fought with games, not high def media.

[tonymontana313]

Seriously, the console wars is the only technology war that makes it your worthwhile for a person to jump in. Each console has their own positives and exclusives that you can truly come away feeling good as a gamer with a 360 and PS3 purchase. Wii purchase not so much. :o

[The Bus]

If anyone can make BR a success, it's Microsoft.

:lol:

If Microsoft really wants to threaten the PS3, they would include a Blu-ray internal drive to the Elite asap. If they plan to do a Blu-ray add-on, please keep the freaking price reasonable. One of the biggest problems with the hd-dvd add on was the price was ridiculous compared to the Toshiba SAs.

Microsoft has been threatening the PS3 ever since it came out.

[tonymontana313]

:lol:



Microsoft has been threatening the PS3 ever since it came out.
But the PS3 is looking like a much better investment in the long run with the BD attachment which is why I was suggesting the 360 having a internal BD drive to create a competition for who has the best multimedia console.

[GizmoDVD]

But the PS3 is looking like a much better investment in the long run with the BD attachment which is why I was suggesting the 360 having a internal BD drive to create a competition for who has the best multimedia console.

You're assuming gamers care about being able to play Blu-ray movies...they don't. They care about games and the 360 holds all the cards. If they cared about Blu-ray you would see PS3 hardware sales through the roof...but their not. You would see PS3 games in the Top 10...but that does not happen very often.

Ive been a gamer since the NES days and I own 0 PS3 games. I have no interest in the console at all as a gaming machine. I own/ed almost every video game system available in the US including 3DO, TG16 and CDi. Still can't get myself up to actually buy a PS3 game.

[Suprmallet]

Seriously, the console wars is the only technology war that makes it your worthwhile for a person to jump in. Each console has their own positives and exclusives that you can truly come away feeling good as a gamer with a 360 and PS3 purchase. Wii purchase not so much. :o

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the Wii. I played Smash Bros. for 6 hours last night, then switched over to Super Metroid, then threw on some Mario Galaxy for good measure. The Wii is a great gaming machine.

[GizmoDVD]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the Wii. I played Smash Bros. for 6 hours last night, then switched over to Super Metroid, then threw on some Mario Galaxy for good measure. The Wii is a great gaming machine.

Kinda OT...but have you been able to play online Brawl at all? Ive been trying for the past 2 days and out of 50 or so times where I fight the sand bag, I got to play 1 match without kicking me off. Too bad the 2 minute match was plagued with so much lag it took 10 minutes...ugh.

[QuePaso]

You're assuming gamers care about being able to play Blu-ray movies...they don't. They care about games and the 360 holds all the cards. If they cared about Blu-ray you would see PS3 hardware sales through the roof...but their not. You would see PS3 games in the Top 10...but that does not happen very often.

Ive been a gamer since the NES days and I own 0 PS3 games. I have no interest in the console at all as a gaming machine. I own/ed almost every video game system available in the US including 3DO, TG16 and CDi. Still can't get myself up to actually buy a PS3 game.

You say this because you're a 360 owner and pleased with it. Ill say it again, there are still 100+ million gamers who havent bought a 360 that can choose between a 360 and PS3 going forward. What happens from here on out is much, much more important now, especially when someone walks into a store and checks out the value of the ps3 vs the value of the 360 (tons of needed accessories, 100 buck wireless, pay to play online, no built in 1080p movie player, etc etc), its going to become a tougher and tougher sale for microsoft as time goes on. And the games will come, sony owns more gaming studios then any other company on the planet. Each one has great franchises. Square is still very loyal to sony (and im sure sony cut quite a few checks for that to happen, no doubt). And i have 6 PS3 games myself (and a lot more 360 games), and they are Fantastic games! Uncharted is absolutely astonishing and nothing on the 360 comes even close to it in presentation, style and wonderful storyline. Killer gameplay too. Its one of the most impressive games of this gen so far.

Having seen every major game on the 360 + PS3 up till this point, its safe to say that once the PS3 ramps up its games, its going to be very tough for microsoft to recover. Again, my opinion, but looking at the exclusive list of titles for 08 and 09 for the 360, its a very stale list of games that will play just like the old incarnations from xbox 1 or previous xbox 360 games. And fans of those styles of games already own 360s. JMO.

[Suprmallet]

I think you're severely discounting the attraction of many of the 360 titles. Uncharted is fun, but it's short, and there's very little replayability. You're about the only person I've ever heard praise the PSN above Xbox Live. And Bioshock tops Uncharted in gameplay, presentation, and storyline.

Both are good systems, but right now the 360 has the edge on games. Can that change? Sure. Is Blu-ray movie playback going to be the deciding factor? Absolutely not.

[mbs]

The PSN is also not littered with garbage shareware titles that arent worth the bandwidth wasted on them.

It was hard to read past this sentence. You really think the games on PSN even come close to those on XBL? Seriously? I have both a 360 and a PS3. And I own probably around 6 PSN games. However, they are, on average, nowhere close to what XBL has.

For example (speaking of garbage on PSN), I suppose you have not played Pain, Go!Ski, or the motion duckie game? I paid for all three of those (because PSN, unlike XBL, doesn't have demos) and each is utter garbage.

I don't care whether the 360 or the PS3 win the prize for second this generation, but XBL is miles and miles better than PSN, IMO.

And to the discussion of games for the PS3, I own one (and about fourty 360 games), Motorstorm. That is one hell of a fun game.

[QuePaso]

I think you're severely discounting the attraction of many of the 360 titles. Uncharted is fun, but it's short, and there's very little replayability. You're about the only person I've ever heard praise the PSN above Xbox Live. And Bioshock tops Uncharted in gameplay, presentation, and storyline.

Both are good systems, but right now the 360 has the edge on games. Can that change? Sure. Is Blu-ray movie playback going to be the deciding factor? Absolutely not.

I never discounted the attraction of the 360 games, but by this holiday season, they will be old news. I didnt see anyone going to best buy last year to buy a Xbox 360 to play Perfect Dark Zero or Kameo. They buy based on whats new and whats hot. 2007 Holiday season was really great for the 360. 2008 isnt looking like much at this point.

And the PSN is great for what its designed for, which is playing games online. Xbox live is awesome, but it has seen better days, and 95% of the XBL Arcade games are complete throwaways, while the PSN has some fantastic titles (Flow, Everyday shooter, Pixeljunk Monsters, etc), and a better signal to noise ratio, IMO. I think most would agree that theres a lot of junk on XBL Arcade (even tho there is some great stuff too of course). I dont do movie downloads, so i have no opinion either way on that portion of live. I also despise having to pay for it. You can justify it because it works great (when it works at least), but the i dont mind losing the cross game stuff for free online gaming which works as good if not at times better then lives online gaming. You guys are quick to discount the PSN, but it works just fine. And if you ask someone whos never seen Xbox Live, they will have 0 issues with it as well. It is just because you're so used to live.

Bioshock was a fun ride, but it felt like a game, where Uncharted felt more like a movie and more immersive. Of course everyone has different opinions on games, but most people i know who played and finished Uncharted absolutely adored it. You are 100%, absolutely right that as of right now, the 360 has the edge on games. If this gen of the console wars ended right now, it would be the 360 as the top console. But that is not the case. We are VERY early in this gen and everyone keeps saying theres no way to come back up for the ps3. I am just saying, its barely gotten started. Every major franchise from the playstation systems has yet to hit the PS3 other then Ratchet and Clank. I cannot say the same for the 360. They've played all their cards it seems.

[Suprmallet]

Where did I say that the PS3 can't come back from its third place spot? I never said that. I only said it's not going to be Blu-ray playback that gets it there. And I'm sure Microsoft will have some serious heavy hitters come Christmas 08. They'd be fools not to.

As for the PSN, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I find that Live is far more flexible than the PSN, and the fact that you can download demos of every marketplace game on Live means that the signal to noise ratio doesn't matter. The only game I've purchased from the PSN has been Tekken Dark Resurrection, and that was because I'd played the game before. Since so few games have had demos, I haven't purchased anything else. And the few that do have demos seemed very bland.

[QuePaso]

Agree to Disagree for sure.

[DVD Polizei]

I have to admit I'm a PC Gamer, but playing a game in High-Def on my 50" plasma does sound rather fun.

[True_Story1011]

If those titles come out in a timely fashion, then the PS3 may have a fighting chance. Absolutely. I don't think Tekken 6 is a system seller, though. Resistance 2 isn't, either. The only reason Resistance sold so well on the PS3 is that it was the only launch title worth a damn. I don't think the sequel will do nearly as well. The FF games, MGS, Gran Turismo, Killzone, and maybe Little Big Planet will do very well. I personally can't wait for MGS and Little Big Planet.

But again, this just hammers home my point that the console wars are fought with games, not high def media.


I think you'll be eating your words on this statement. I know a ton of people who loved Ressistance: Fall of Man, and are waiting for the sequel.

I know of over a dozen people off hand that purchase the system for R:FOM - that and the BD player ;)

[Shazam]

:lol:



Microsoft has been threatening the PS3 ever since it came out.You know, I really have no idea if I was being serious or sarcastic when I wrote that. I think it was a bit of both, really.

Sometimes I think the only difference between Sony and Microsoft is that one is named Sony and the other is named Microsoft.

[brianluvdvd]

I love how PS fans love to throw the cost of Xbox Live out there constantly. If you look a little you can usually get 13 months of Xbox Live for around $40 (msrp is $50) which averages to $3.08 a month (or perish $3.85 if ou pay $50).

Oh my god! How can people afford that? Microsoft is obviously ripping people off!

I do not have a PS3 nor do I have an interest in one. But I know several people that do have both and they all state that the Xbox Live experience blows away their online experiences with the PS. I think most would agree that quality and a better online experience is worth paying $3 a month for.

If Sony charged for theirs...would there be any traffic? It appear they have to keep it free right now.

[Qui Gon Jim]

I believe that it would be best if at this point you stop insinuating false theories and neglect the fact that the PS3 has been the most flexible and reliable system on the market. It secured Blu-Ray as the winner (projected by SONY), it has proven to be the more durable machine, and it has forced their main rival to consider its standard profile. This does not equate blunder to me, rather it has future written all over it.

This piece on the other hand posted only two days ago reveals that some former HDDVD backers and their products do indeed freeze. In great numbers:


http://us.i1.yimg.com/videogames.yahoo.com/feature/red-ring-of-failure/1192354

Let us know when the PS3 begins generating such mass reports.

Ciao.
Pro-B
You bounce back and forth from the video game market to the home video market.

This is fact: In the VG market, PS3, from the same company that controlled 90% of the market previously is trailing in an extremely distant third place. An extremely underpowered competitor, the Wii, is outpacing them at a factor of 3 or 4 to one.

Compared to the expected performance from the the last generation, PS3 is a failure of Saturn proportions.

360 is selling like crazy despite the RRoD. Why? The library of GAMES. The PS2 was widely regarded as unreliable. Best selling system ever though. Why? The GAMES.
You are truly coming off as talking about stuff like you are an expert, while you only have passing knowledge of the topic. Unless PS3 brings the GAMES, then it will be a punchline in 10 years, just like the Saturn is now.

I think Supermallet and Tracer Bullet make excellent points here.

[Tracer Bullet]

You say this because you're a 360 owner and pleased with it. Ill say it again, there are still 100+ million gamers

There certainly aren't 100 million+ gamers out there, at least not in the sense you apparently mean. The PS2 has sold over 100 million units because it had the greatest number of titles at a lower cost. Which current gen console(s) can say that currently? It's not the PS3.

Also, the PS3 needs to capture some of the casual market in order to begin to catch up to the 360 (forget about the Wii). Of course the problem is that the casual market is snatching Wiis up, leaving gamers to buy 360s, with the PS3 a distinct third place afterthought.

And i have 6 PS3 games myself (and a lot more 360 games), and they are Fantastic games! Uncharted is absolutely astonishing and nothing on the 360 comes even close to it in presentation, style and wonderful storyline. Killer gameplay too. Its one of the most impressive games of this gen so far.

I don't think anyone is claiming the PS3 doesn't have some very good games. The problem is that these aren't system sellers.

[Tracer Bullet]

I think you'll be eating your words on this statement. I know a ton of people who loved Ressistance: Fall of Man, and are waiting for the sequel.

Wouldn't that mean that they already own a PS3, thus meaning that Resistance 2 won't be a system seller?

[Michael Corvin]

I am going to quote a post from another forum by another member:
Pro-B

Originally Posted by Cyan:
People that think that this is going to hurt the PS3 are being too simplistic and bitter. In the long run, this move will likely encourage people that normally would have bought a 360 to buy a PS3 instead, because of price point(s)/value...

...long winded nonsensical post with flawed pricing...



This smacks of fanboy-itis and was basically ripped to shreds already but I find it funny that when this flawed argument doesn't work you whip out the overplayed RROD card:


This piece on the other hand posted only two days ago reveals that some former HDDVD backers and their products do indeed freeze. In great numbers:

If that isn't a fanboy mentality, I don't know what is. I have to agree with Tracer and Supermallet. You are posting nonsense. Visit the VG forum once in a while to actually get a feel for the temperament of gamers before posting this crap. You have this heir of elitism around here about BD, but when it comes to gaming you come off like a noob. Sit down before you hurt yourself.

The PS3 is a game machine first and a BD player second. It fails at the first and succeeds at the second. The future looks brighter, but even if the PS3 managed to catch up to the 360 (quadrupling sales monthly compared to the 360) and developers started to consider it as the lead platform you are still looking at an additional 1-2 years development time on a AAA title. So a year to catch up and another year to two for a lead platform AAA title. We will be looking at the new Xbox by then.


I know of over a dozen people off hand that purchase the system for R:FOM - that and the BD player ;)

Like posted, Resistence isn't a system seller. It was the best launch title for people that were buying a PS3 anyway. It is Sony's Perfect Dark Zero. PD0 wasn't a system seller either. Gears of War, Halo, Mario Galaxy, and Wii Sports are. Sony hasn't had a system seller yet, I doubt MGS4 fits the bill either. At this point, I only see FFXIII wearing that shoe.

In the end, it is beneficial to the Blu camp to get as many players out there as possible for the format to be viable. Looking at it that way, how is a sub $200 player a bad way to go? Sounds like one of the best options out there. You have a pool of 18 million consumers ready to buy into the format. I think an external drive is inevitable.

[tonymontana313]

Resistance 2 will be a hit on the PS3. It still has a pretty active online community and there is a lot of hype surrounding their 8 person online co-op and 60 player multi-player mode.

[Yavin]

Resistance 2 will be a hit on the PS3. It still has a pretty active online community and there is a lot of hype surrounding their 8 person online co-op and 60 player multi-player mode.

Resistance was the first game I played on the PS3. Haven't had a chance to play it much since starting up GRAW2 and Rainbow Six Vegas, but damn that game was intense. My last save point was at the Cathedral. To paraphrase Borat, those spider-looking-crawly-alien-facehugger-like-thingies are the pain in my asshole.

[Draven]

Resistance 2 will be a hit on the PS3. It still has a pretty active online community and there is a lot of hype surrounding their 8 person online co-op and 60 player multi-player mode.

...among the relatively small group of PS3 owners who actually game on their systems.

No one is saying it won't be successful. But few believe people will buy a PS3 for the game, and that's what Sony is sorely lacking.

[Shazam]

I remember when this used to be the Hi-Def forum :)

[Mister Peepers]

For example (speaking of garbage on PSN), I suppose you have not played Pain, Go!Ski, or the motion duckie game? I paid for all three of those (because PSN, unlike XBL, doesn't have demos) and each is utter garbage.

There are demos for games and that includes motion duckie.

Now please resume your argument where you each fail to make the other change their opinion.

As an owner of all 3, I'm of the opinion that each has it pluses and minuses and some people will like one more than the other for different reasons.

The only one thing for sure is that right now the Wii is outselling them all, the 360 is 2nd and the PS3 is 3rd. Claiming to know how a system will do in the future because of things that haven't happened yet and fighting over it is stupid. Things change, anything can happen, games can end up being crap after months or years of hype.

[Draven]

I remember when this used to be the Hi-Def forum :)

Blame Sony for making their game console the best Blu-ray player on the market.

[Michael Corvin]

I remember when this used to be the Hi-Def forum :)

Blame the VG mods that locked the thread there and directed us all here.

Seems like it was warranted with all the <s>fanboy</s> misinformed posts leading the charge. :lol:

[RoboDad]

Seems like what was warranted?

[Michael Corvin]

Posters migrating from the VG forum coming to correct blatant pro-Sony, anti-MS / biased posts.

[pro-bassoonist]

If that isn't a fanboy mentality, I don't know what is. I have to agree with Tracer and Supermallet. You are posting nonsense.

The only biased mentality here stems from the persistent statements that there aren't games for the PS3 now (don't come back to me with "system sellers" as the PS3 isn't about hardcore gamers only, the "system seller" so far has been excellent future proof BR performance) and it will only be a success if such are released in the future. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The PS3 is selling briskly now and with the introduction of the games mentioned earlier in this thread I don't see a reason why its positive performance won't continue.

Specifically as to the timely fashion posted by Suppermallet...what does it mean? Now, three months from now, six months, the end of the year? It is complete non-sense as the PS3 was not designed to perform as a game console only, hence its initial high-price tag.

The PS3 sells both as a media center and a game console and there will be more than enough funds to go towards software in addition to what is already being planned (strangely Microsoft will be the donor). So, the short-sited notion expressed in this thread that SONY must target the-hardcore gamers/X-BOX owners because this is where the business is is so far off it is not even worth discussing it. You don't have to be a gamer to see how SONY mapped their PS3 strategy. Or, do you?

I also repeatedly posted that the PS3 was designed with future being the foundation. It did everything right for BR thus far and with royalties on the horizon I have every reason to believe game developers will make it a long lasting success. This does not mean that it has to be on top of the video race nor does it mean that it must happen now. Unfortunately a few of the posters here have absolutely the same view on the entire market they had with HDDVD: now is the center of the universe.

Reality of course is different - the PS3 is still the leading BR player in addition to being a game console. So, until the SONY 2.0 players street I have every reason to believe that for them the priority is elsewhere, especially given the fact that no one expected Toshiba to end the war this soon.

Obviously for you an a few others the market looks rather different, which isn't surprising really as all of the comments I've read so far are centered around the idea that the PS3 is a game console only.

Ciao,
Pro-B

[Qui Gon Jim]

The PS3 IS a game console. You can say it isn't all you want. But it is. Spare us this media hub bullshit that companies have been saying for damn near 20 years. People will buy video game consoles to SHOCK! play video games. Not to watch movies. Not in the numbers that make these things successful.

Spin until you are dizzy, but the PS3, right now, is a failure. All signs point to that failure continuing.

I just hope it doesn't drag HDM down with it.

[trespoochies]

Is that a joke? Odd, I know more than one person who bought it with the intention to watch movies....

[Qui Gon Jim]

Is that a joke? Odd, I know more than one person who bought it with the intention to watch movies....
Not in the numbers that will make it successful.

While those that bought the system for movies may be a high percentage, they are still an insignificant number compared to the number who buy game consoles to play games.

If there were a BD player from any other company that wasn't total shit would as many people have bought a PS3? Or if SAs were priced at a level where game features added a premium to the cost?

People did not seek out the PS3 because it was a media hub, but because it was the only reliable BD player available, and that group is still a small sample of the greater group of PS3 owners.

[trespoochies]

So how did Blu Ray prevail over HD-DVD? I'm thinking the PS3 had something to do with it.....just a guess.....as Pro-B said, it's a media center, not a simple game console anymore. Sony basically was thinking a few steps ahead, at the risk of a quick death. They prevailed, and so will the PS3. Not sure why you're so hellbent against it. Anyhow, not my fight, I know whatever anyone says won't convince you. We'll know more of their intentions as the year progresses.

[pro-bassoonist]

The PS3 IS a game console.

Spin until you are dizzy, but the PS3, right now, is a failure..
Please stop posting non-sense and find a different topic to express your displeasure with everything SONY.

Yesterday I addressed point by point your fabrications that:

IMO, Sony has already blundered on such an epic scale, it is astounding.

...and you disappeared without leaving a single cohesive argument to offer why and according to what analysis, other than your own, SONY has been such a disaster. Now, you offer yet another incomprehensible statement which tags the PS3 as a game machine only. It isn't, it never was, and it won't be in the future.

Ciao,
Pro-B

[Tracer Bullet]

The only biased mentality here stems from the persistent statements that there aren't games for the PS3 now (don't come back to me with "system sellers" as the PS3 isn't about hardcore gamers only, the "system seller" so far has been excellent future proof BR performance) and it will only be a success if such are released in the future. Nothing could be further from the truth.

While I still don't think you understand the video game market, you have made an interesting statement here: that the PS3 has a system seller and that system seller is Blu-ray. I believe this to be true.

This means that right now (and for the foreseeable future) the only must-have app for the PS3 is Blu-ray. Now, let's think about this for a minute. If we're talking mass adoption, how many average people are going to purchase a Blu-ray player at $400? Not many. So right now you have the PS3 market as hardcore HD media fans and hardcore gamers, and only one of those markets is being catered to with any level of success. Where is the mass adoption going to come from?

It is complete non-sense as the PS3 was not designed to perform as a game console only, hence its initial high-price tag.

No, it was not. Which is why the PS3 has been losing (and badly) this generation.

Now in what reality a Blu-ray 360 add-on in any way helps the PS3 I have no idea.

Obviously for you an a few others the market looks rather different, which isn't surprising really as all of the comments I've read so far are centered around the idea that the PS3 is a game console only.

Absolutely not, but that is the PS3's core market, or should be. Sony wants mass adoption of Blu-ray. That is not going to happen until player prices come down. Once a good BD player comes out at a lower price point than the PS3, where is the PS3's advantage?

Or put more simply: once you take away the PS3's sole system seller (as you yourself stated) what happens to the PS3?

[candyrocket786]

People did not seek out the PS3 because it was a media hub, but because it was the only reliable BD player available, and that group is still a small sample of the greater group of PS3 owners.


That's me :wave:

[pro-bassoonist]

This means that right now (and for the foreseeable future) the only must-have app for the PS3 is Blu-ray.

Incorrect. It means that the only must have app for the PS3 as far as hard-core gamers are concerned is BR. And if you look far enough into the future the moment MS or Apple begin paying royalties the market becomes unpredictable. For a very long time the PS3 was a loss leader: one or two of the parties mentioned above changes that in a flash (pricing and software being indirectly influenced as well, in simple English: a competitor subsidizing both PS3 and BR on SONY's behalf, hence why MS so carefully worded their announcement as where it makes sense).


Now, let's think about this for a minute. If we're talking mass adoption, how many average people are going to purchase a Blu-ray player at $400? Not many. So right now you have the PS3 market as hardcore HD media fans and hardcore gamers, and only one of those markets is being catered to with any level of success. Where is the mass adoption going to come from?

Your argument is self-defeating. The moment BR is set for a mass adoption (MS introducing the add-on/and the Fall/Winter introduction of BR players) is the moment when 400$ and now are thrown out of the picture. If you can not see how SONY will be playing on both markets, media and gaming, hence why the PS3 was their workhorse, then you don't understand what they are attempting to accomplish. The issue here, again, is that Toshiba (or to quote other analysts Samsung) ended it all way before anyone anticipated.



No, it was not. Which is why the PS3 has been losing (and badly) this generation.
It has been performing badly only in the eyes of those who see it as a game console only.


Now in what reality a Blu-ray 360 add-on in any way helps the PS3 I have no idea.
Read above.

Ciao,
Pro-B

[Qui Gon Jim]

You are ridiculous. Your have no grasp of the video game sector of the entertainment industry.

There have been plenty of systems that strove to be more than a video game system, and all of them failed badly.

Also, I am far from bashing everything Sony. I was a day one supporter of the PS1. A day one supporter of PS2. In my eyes, Sony took their eye off the ball, and their position of dominance has slipped away, and I blame the foolish decision to shoe-horn blu-ray into the system for no other reason than to inflate the installed base.

Games are not better because of Blu-Ray. Quite the contrary, there is no noticeable difference between 360 and PS3 versions of games.

They allowed Microsoft to get a full year's jump on them, and I don't understand why they did. This lead time was exactly the thing that allowed Sony to slam the door in MS's face last gen. Just as PS2 was releasing titles worth owning, MS launched with a "more powerful" product, with lackluster titles that never caught on like it could have.

Sound familiar?

I have said this 1000 times, and I think it bears repeating:
Sony sacrificed the top position in a known multi-billion dollar market in hopes of getting in on the ground floor of the next big media format. Time will tell if it was worth the gamble. Right now, it seems like it was a poor choice.

If people can get the library of 360 along with the ability to add in Blu-Ray if they choose, then to me, it is a death sentence for PS3. Right now, Blu-Ray is the best thing PS3 has going for it.

[pro-bassoonist]

The PS3 IS a game console. You can say it isn't all you want. But it is.

Spin until you are dizzy...


Until you correct the view expressed in the above statement any further discussions are unwarranted.

Ciao,
Pro-B

[Josh Z]

Enough is enough.

Can those of you participating in this thread who own no XBox 360 games, no PS3 games, no HD DVD titles, and barely more than a dozen Blu-ray titles please refrain from acting as through you are an expert in the video game or High-Def media markets? Thank you for your assistance. It will be much appreciated by those of us who actually have a compelling interest in the topics we come here to discuss.

[splattii2]

Is that a joke? Odd, I know more than one person who bought it with the intention to watch movies....

I bought one for Blu Ray, but I wouldn't have had there been an alternate player for less, hence the reason for this long thread. The NDP #'s spoke volumes on how the majority of PS3 owners didn't realize the PS3 played Blu Ray discs. Slice it as many ways as you'd like, the reason companies spend $$ on NPD is because they give you an insight into what the general public is thinking, not what we assume.

[namja]

I think that's about enough of this discussion.

We (mods) will discuss and may re-open this with a suspension or two.

namja
Moderator, DVD Talk Forums