BritTVfanMidwst

Hi all--

I haven't been to this forum for awhile, but I'm hoping some of you here can help me.
My multi-region, multi-system Daewoo DVD player has given up the ghost. It's died. Now, I had it for seven years, and it was often used for at least an hour a day, sometimes more, so I take that as not a bad life for a DVD player.
I'm planning on getting a new machine, from the same retailer (DVDOverseas.com) but I'd like some reviews first. What do you like? What don't you like? Brands that are good, brands that aren't? Any help would be appreciated.
Note: DVD player MUST be capable of playing PAL DVDs on a standard American TV (NTSC), and MUST be region-free (aka Code-free). I have about 15-20 UK TV discs (e.g. R2, PAL), which my old one played perfectly. I also have a couple hundred NTSC/R1 discs.
(At this point I haven't collected anything in SECAM or any region other than 1, 2 or 0).
Note: I do NOT have HD at this point, I'm also not looking (yet) for an HD or Blu-ray player.

Here are some models I found and are considering:
Pioneer DV300s (Plays any DVD)
Toshiba SD-780K (Region-code-free HDMI)
Toshiba SDK680 (PAL/NTSC, Any region)
Sony DVP-NS61P-S PAL/NTSC

ANY help would be appreciated. Also, info on what "upscaling" or "1080i" means IF you don't have HD, would be appreciated. (Hey, with a collection of over 100 films, and over 100 TV shows, I need something to play THOSE - not a new format like HD/Blu-ray).

Thanks a ton!
--British TV Fan, Midwest

Ron G

www.oppodigital.com

Edit: Perhaps I should do more than just post a link. I have one of the older Oppo models, the OPDV971H, which only upconverts to 1080i. This is fine for me for the time being, as my TV's resolution limit is 1080i. The new Oppo models upconvert to 1080p.

The upconversion on the Oppo is great, but more importantly for your purposes, the PAL to NTSC conversion is superb. There is absolutely no noticeable different between R1 and R2 DVDs, even concert videos, where the slight PAL speedup might bring things up 1/4 of a note. I have about 25-30 R2 DVDs, and two R3 DVDs, and I've had no video or audio problems with any of them.

When I get a new TV and go on the market for a new region-free, upconverting player, I will be buying another Oppo.

Machinegunrap

I just wanted to second the opinion. I bought an Oppo last year and love it. I bought the 980-HD model which upconverts to 1080P. It's not inherently region-free, but a code can be easily found an put in. I've used it to play the few Region 2 and Region 4 discs that I have and just last night bought a bunch of the old UK Ali G dvd's. Read any reviews about the Oppo and it's pretty obvious the best bang for your buck.

Arpeggi

I recommend Oppo.

samper

I would wait a bit and get the Oppo 983 when it ships in a month or two.

Trigger

I don't have HDMI, but I think I want an Oppo - worth upgrading my Jaton? Does Oppo have x/y scaling or many levels of zoom? Also, does it have the subtitle delay problem that Jaton has? My Jaton still works, but it is kinda starting to chug on a few DVDs. I'd like to get something new.

mrhan

Nope, only the Jaton and Malata N996 are the only ones that ever did this. I wish it was on the Oppo. That would make it perfect.

BritTVfanMidwst

Hi again,

The responds so far seem to only recommend a DVD player that *does* upscale to 1080i.
Two Questions:
What is 1080i? -- I thought this was the new HD standard.
What effect (if any) does 1080 upscaling have on a STANDARD American (NTSC) TV?
What I am looking for in a new DVD player is that it's truly multi-region (not hacked) and multi-system (PAL/NTSC converting). My current one (the Daewoo) I could literally watch one show on a NTSC/R1 disc, take that out, put in a PAL/R2 disc, press play -- and poof, it played -- no codes to punch in, no hacking.
The four models referenced in my first post all promise this, and knowing DVDOverseas, they'll all do what I want, but what I'd like are some recommendations and/or info on what to get. At least to start with.

Help, please?
Midwestern British TV Fan

Jay G.

1080i is one of the HD resolutions that's part of the new ATSC digital broadcast standard. 702p is the other HD resolution. However, ATSC also allows broadcast of material in 480p or 480i, so there's actually not any one new "standard" resolution. Also, some TVs are now capable of accepting 1080p signals, although this would mainly only apply to viewing HD discs or upconverted DVDs.

If you turned the upscaling on, you wouldn't be able to view it on a standard TV. However, any DVD player sold in North America with upscaling capability is going to have it turned off by default out of the box, and will be set at SD NTSC 480i. The settings and resolution for standard NTSC TVs are still included in these DVD players, they just also include the capability for upscaling to higher resolutions as an option.

Like others mentioned, the Oppo brand DVD players will do PAL/NTSC converting correctly.

As for the hacking, I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at. Practically every DVD player sold in the US is R1 out of the box, which requires hacking it first before it becomes region-free. However, this hacking of the player is a one-time occurrence in most cases, as once the player's been set to region free, it will stay that way until hacked again. This means that once hacked, the players in question will work exactly the way you describe for watching DVDs: just stick it in and it will play, no matter what region/resolution it is.

Likely, your Daewoo started out R1 and was hacked at some point. If you didn't do it yourself, then wherever you bought it did it. Places like DVDoverseas sell players where they've done these 30 second remote hacks for you, at a significant mark-up.

Look at this site to see how simple these "set it and forget it" remote hacks are:
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks?dv...&Search=Search

Trigger

What about a zoom out? I could live with it if it would have an incremental or smooth zoom.

d2cheer

What type of TV do you have? If you have an LCD then you should not need to use this function as there should not be overscan.

Trigger

I have a 65" 4:3 HD RPTV that has 3:2 pulldown and does up to 1080p. I have colorstream inputs, but no HDMI. It was the last RPTV sold in 4:3 - I wanted that because most programming is in full screen and when it presents something in widescreen, it's still just as wide as a comparable widescreen set. I have a lot more real estate when watching regular programming. I hate widescreen sets because your choices for 4:3 programming (tv shows, anime, etc..) are either bars on the sides or stretched or cropped. (ha, what am I defensive about my television?)

So anyway - yeah, most DVDs require a zoom out. A few require x-y scaling (because they are encoded wrong I guess like Address Unknown).

pro-bassoonist

So far my feelings on the newer Oppo are mixed. I had a 970 for some time and gave it away about a month and half ago. Placed an order for a 981. I went through three units until I got one that actually did not have any issues right out of the box.

The only reason I picked up this unit and did not wait for the rumored 983 (which has been coming for months now) is because I needed a solid player upconverting PAL discs to 1080p via HDMI (I have a Bravia XBR3 and 4) now. So far there are two issues that do not bode well the player's reputation: correct PAL framing (the player does not do the pulldown flawlessly) and macro-blocking. The first issue is quite noticeable even when you set the player on the recommended for PAL playback Video 2. The second one, as addressed at AVS, is a byproduct of the chip the Oppo uses, with other words it is produced by the player. Macro-blocking isn't always noticeable but it is quite annoying when the player can not offset it.

With this in mind the rumored 983 is supposedly using a different chip (Reon?) and both of those issues will be eliminated. I don't entirely buy what has been said so far and will wait for a reliable review to appear but if PAL playback is indeed addressed with the new chip eliminating both of the above issues I will likely consider getting the 983 come Christmas time.

Pro-B

BSTNFAN

Pro-B,

The 981 is known for macro-blocking with some display types and therefore the 980 is recommended for those displays. I believe this is outlined on Oppo's site. The 983 is rumored to be quite the upgrade and those that reviewed early models have raved about it. It will use ABT chips for both de-interlacing and scaling.

pro-bassoonist

Yes, I am well aware of it but the only reason I needed an Oppo was for my PAL discs. And the 981 is the one that supposedly does proper 2:2 pulldown for PAL product, the 980 does not according to the comparison graph. Then the 981 is also the player that supposedly eliminates other issues the 980 is known for with the introduction of TrueLife.

I am not quite so sure what experiences others have had with this player but color reproduction for example on my old 970 was much better -- sharp, lush, and well defined colors. I honestly think that there are some serious trade-ins between the two players. Regardless I kept the 981 because the 983 has been coming since November.

I will wait to see what reviews come out for the 983 and if indeed there is a significant improvement in PAL-NTSC playback with the issues I noted earlier addressed then I will consider it. Otherwise I won't, sound improvement at this point is not a priority for me.

What model do you have and what TV? Are you satisfied?

Pro-B

BSTNFAN

I have the 981. I usually use it at 480p because my cal'd Mits CRT (65413) accepts and displays that signal very well (better than 1080i from the player). To me, it does very well with my R2 PALs, but this was an upgrade from a Cyberhome 500, so my basis of comparison may be skewed. Also of note, is that the SACD and DVD-A capability is very important to me, so that influences my decision making, as well. I'm also waiting for reviews of the production model 983 as I plan on upgrading to an FP (model TBD) later this year.

pro-bassoonist

Ah, I see. Well, we shall see how this 983 will perform. I have no problem upgrading if the the results are there.

Pro-B

Kmical

My Malata 520 respectfully disagrees It's a happy little variable scalar.

BritTVfanMidwst

Hey--
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You've inadvertenly answered my OTHER question about the whole HD/widescreen thing. I'd say about 90% of my DVD collection is in 4:3 ratio (and properly displayed it SHOULD be in 4:3) -- I collect primarily classic movies (My definition, prior to 1950 -- so 4:3 IS the proper ratio) and TV (again, except for extremely recent British and American TV, proper ratio is 4:3). Absolutely NOT saying there are no good modern movies, there are (I have BOTH versions of all three LotR movies, for ex), and I hate it when I get a "widescreen" movie and it's not true animorphic widescreen, BUT what was really worrying me about HD was the probility that my classic films would be stretched on the new screen -- just like widescreen movies on VHS in 4:3 ratio were cropped (or pan-n-scan, gag) and the ratio and "vision" of the film truly messed up.
Not in the market for HD/widescreen yet (can't afford it) but thanks for the info, I really appreciate it.

British TV Fan (also a classic film fan)

Also, Roger Ebert once said, and I don't have the exact quote in front of me, something like, "What makes a great movie, is a movie that you can't stand the thought of never being able to see it again."

"Finances a bit shaky, are you often short of money?" --Andrew Maxwell
"I'm a teacher." --Peter
"Yes, of course, silly question." -- Andrew Maxwell, to Peter, during his job interview. "A Question of Intelligence", The Piglet Files

BritTVfanMidwst

OK, my DAEWOO was region-free right out of the box. I didn't have to hack it, unhack it, break it or unbreak it.
Second, my major issue is PAL-NTSC conversion. I watch a lot of British Television, and although a lot of shows ARE available in the US market now, a lot of shows aren't (for example, *The Professionals* and *Blake's 7* to name two. And when I bought it -- *Robin of Sherwood* wasn't available in the US either. It is NOW, but I got my copy, oh, 5-6 years ago).
I have 20-25 or so PAL DVDs.
I am AWARE, and have been aware for a long time of the differences between NTSC and PAL for awhile (e.g. resolution --NTSC 525 (or 524), PAL 625, PAL interlaced, NTSC not, and the color encoding is different, plus there may be a few more technical differences). Back in the day of VHS only, this meant you couldn't buy a VHS videotape from the UK and play in in an American VCR on an American TV set.
However, times have changed. You still need to get around the region coding and the NTSC/PAL conversion, but more expensive DVD players will do it.

What I'm trying to find out (and not having a DVD player IS driving me nuts)
is of the four machines listed, all of which look about the same to me, is there any one that stands out?
I want progressive scan of course, 'cause everyone seems to say it's better, and that is what the Daewoo was, and PAL/NTSC conversion, and multi-region, but frankly when the description talks about HDMI Output and upconversion I start to get confused, esp. as I don't have HD yet and I don't think it matters.

Here's some more specs:

Toshiba SD-780k Region-Code-free HDMI DVD Player
Plays PAL/NTSC All countries DVD, HDMI Output (up-conversion) 14-bit/108Mhz Video digital converter.
And then the OTHER formats it plays: JPEG, WMA, MP3 Playback, Progessive Scan, DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD+R/+RW/Audio CD/VCD
Dolby Digtal and DTS Output, SCART Jack 110/220V
US$129.99

OK-- What's the difference between the one above, which seems pretty good, and this one:

Toshiba SDK680 110/220 volt DVD Plays any DVD
Plays PAL/NTSC, Any Region DVD in any country, Jpeg viewer, DivX, WMA, MP3 playback, Progressive scan, Plays DVD-R/DVD-RW/Audio CD/VCD, Doby digital and DTS Surround Sound Output Karakoke functions 110/220 volt.
US$79.99

Now, I don't use my DVD player to play CDs, much less .jpgs, Mp3s, etc.
I do have a couple of VCDs, I think -- some music videos I got a few years ago.
Also, and now I'm wondering if this might be a problem, but my very old TV might only have stereo jacks and/or RJ jacks (I think that's what they are called). The stereo jacks have one yellow cord and then a red and a white cord-- the yellow for video, the red and white for left and right audio.
The other jacks are for a VCR and believe it or not I still have a VCR plugged into them.
I do have Direct TV satellite tho', so that box might have additional inputs.

Help?

Midwest Brit TV Fan

BritTVfanMidwst

Hiya--

Just looked at your link, looked at the first machine, read the entire list of features, sounds VERY nice, but it's way beyond my price range. I'm honestly trying to figure out if I need to buy another $129.00 (Toshiba Sd-780K) machine or if I can get away with a $79 (Toshiba SDK680) or $84.99 (Pioneer DV300s) dollar one and it will work. Besides, I don't have HD/widescreen/home theatre yet. Maybe my *third* machine will be an Oppo.

BUT, thanks for the info!

--Brit TV Fan

Jay G.

Getting a WS HDTV doesn't mean you can't watch 4:3 material. As long as you get a screen that's larger than what you already have, odds are the 4:3 image on the new TV is going to be at least as big as it was on the old TV.

If you have a 4:3 NTSC TV right now, odds are you aren't experiencing the anamorphic enhancement anyway; the DVD player is downcoverting it to letterbox to display on your TV correctly. With a WS HDTV, you'll get increased detail on a WS DVD in addition to it filling the screen better.

If it's a DVD you're watching, you can usually set the player to display the 4:3 image pillarboxed in the 16:9 screen. If its on BD or HD DVD, the film has likely been stored pillarboxed on the disc. The altering of the image on the new HD media formats isn't any more likely than it is for DVD, and is far, far less likely than it had been for VHS.

Jay G.

What model Daewoo and where did you get it? If you bought it from DVDOverseas, they hacked it before selling it to you.

Also, the term "hacking" is not synonymous with "breaking." In terms of consumer electronics, hacking is typically done to add functionality to a device, not take it away.

Well, back then you could do it, but you'd need expensive equipment in order to do so. I remember my high school owned a VCR that could convert PAL to NTSC, which they used to playback certain tapes.

Actually, quite a number of really cheap DVD players will do PAL to NTSC conversion, they just might not do it well.

Progressive Scan is better, but only if your TV is capable of displaying it. If you have an old NTSC 4:3 TV, odds are incredibly high that you're not viewing DVDs in progressive scan mode. Like upconversion, progressive scan needs to be turned on in setup, and will not show the image correctly if you don't have the DVD player hooked up correctly (progressive scan requires the use of component connections or better) and/or if your TV doesn't support it.

The majority of TVs that do support progressive scan are LCDs and Plasmas, and most of those are HD.

You don't have one now, but then you probably don't have a TV that supports anamorphic enhancement or progressive scan either. Do you really want to save a few bucks now just to buy a whole new DVD player when you finally do get a TV that can handle all these features?

It looks like you got those players and specs off of the list at DVDOverseas. Did you happen to click on the "more info" link for each player?

http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/ind...msdk680vc.html
http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/ind...msd780kvc.html

Judging from those specs, the main things the more expensive player adds is an HDMI out and HD upconversion, which you claim you don't need. Both mention VCD compatability.

The red-white-yellow cables are used for what's called composite connection. Note that this is different from a component connection, which uses 5 wires in total, 3 for video and 2 for sound. If your TV only has composite, you definitely are not getting progressive scan, and likely aren't seeing a proper anamorphic image either.

Furious

Get a Philips 5982 and enter a simple remote hack. Buying from "multi-region dvd player" sites is a good way to get hosed and pay about 2-3x higher than what you should. The Philips will do everything you need.

Ted Kontos

Ron,

I agree with everything you say about the Oppo (I have the 981 with a 1080i CRT RPTV), but just to clarify one thing: If I'm not mistaken, concert videos (if they are shot on video) are not subject to PAL speedup. I believe only film-based material is affected because of the frame projection rate differences. Video-based material does not differ in PAL/NTSC. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.