Johan Santana to the Mets for prospects - Update - done deal

[Jobronie]

Figured this was big enough to get its own thread, best pitcher in baseball and all. USAtoday.com:

By Bob Nightengale, USA TODAY

The New York Mets have agreed to a trade for two-time Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana, giving up four prospects to acquire the left-handed ace of the Minnesota Twins, according to two high-ranking Twins officials with knowledge of the talks and a person close to Santana.

The deal is pending the Mets and Santana reaching agreement on a six- or seven-year contract extension and that Santana passes a physical; they have been granted a 48 to-72-hour window to do so.

The Mets paid a high price in prospects to land Santana, agreeing to send the Twins outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.

The deal would give the Mets the much-needed ace at the front of their rotation. Santana won the American League Cy Young Award in 2004 and 2006 and is 93-44 lifetime. He went 15-13 with a 3.33 ERA for the Twins last season. Santana has struck out at least 235 batters each of the past four seasons.

While the deal drains much of the talent out of the Mets' farm system, they did manage to hold on to top prospect Fernando Martinez, an outfielder. Instead, they headed the package with Gomez, who turned 22 in December and spent 58 games with the Mets last year.

Gomez is what scouts like to call a five-tool player, a combination of offensive ability that includes power and speed as well as an above-average defensive game and a strong arm. He has worked to cut down a strikeout rate that was high during the early part of a minor league career that began in 2004 after the Mets signed him out of the Dominican Republic. He made his major league debut last May and hit .232.

Humber, 25, is the Mets' 2004 first-round pick who has made five major league appearances, including one start, over the past two seasons. He won 11 games at Class AAA last season, his first full year after having Tommy John surgery in 2005.

Santana would give the Mets the best rotation in the NL East after they missed out on the division title by one game thanks to a historic September collapse. He'd likely be joined by Pedro Martinez, John Maine, Oliver Perez and Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez.

The Twins, meanwhile, would see yet another young star they produced leave the organization. Their Gold Glove outfielder, Torii Hunter, left for the Los Angeles Angels this offseason. Gomez would be a candidate to replace him in center field.link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-29-twins-mets-santana_N.htm)

[Deftones]

Yikes. :eek:

[huh?]

Thank God its not the Red Sox.

[starman9000]

Without Martinez, I liked the original Yanks and Sox deals better, but honestly I don't know much about the Met's guys. At least now it won't be as painful to watch him pitch.

[chrisih8u]

That stinks. I wanted the Sox to get him and I would have given up Lester, Ellsbury, and 5 years, $125.

[matta]

Fuck

[Deftones]

So, are the Mets now the front runner for the NL? Or do Colorado/Philly/Arizona still have something to say about it?

[raven56706]

this pending the contract... lets see

[DVD Josh]

So, are the Mets now the front runner for the NL? Or do Colorado/Philly/Arizona still have something to say about it?

I say they do. Santana can't pitch every day and the Mets still have other issues outside of their infield to resolve.

[Dave7393]

:banana: .... but I don't like six years.

[parrotheads4]

:banana:

Wow! I must be dreaming. And the Giants are in the "Big Game". Next thing you know Sirius and XM will merge, and this will be the greatest 2 years since 86/87!

[Rogue588]

Thank God its not the Yankees.

[Deftones]

:banana:

Wow! I must be dreaming. And the Giants are in the "Big Game". Next thing you know Sirius and XM will merge, and this will be the greatest 2 years since 86/87!

You didn't get the call from the doctor? You have cancer. :sad:



;)

[Kicker_of_Elves]

Damn! I was hoping the Sox would get him as well.

[Jobronie]

So, are the Mets now the front runner for the NL? Or do Colorado/Philly/Arizona still have something to say about it?Right off the top, figure he gets 4-5 starts vs. Philly, so that knocks Philly back a bit.

I'm hoping for AZ, since I got tickets for them at Fenway.....

[raven56706]

i am just glad Boston didnt get him... phhheeeewwww.... but now lets see if he will accept his contract....

[Deftones]

Right off the top, figure he gets 4-5 starts vs. Philly, so that knocks Philly back a bit.

I'm hoping for AZ, since I got tickets for them at Fenway.....

Maybe you'll get lucky and see Webb/Johnson/Haren as the starters.

[raven56706]

By Jon Heyman, SI.com

The Mets and Twins have agreed on a trade to send star pitcher Johan Santana to New York, SI.com has confirmed.

The Mets will now have a window to try to negotiate a long-term deal with Santana, who has a full no-trade clause and veto power of trades. People familiar with the Mets thinking say they'd like to keep it to a five-year contract. Assuming the Mets can reach an agreement with Santana, the players the Twins will be acquiring are young outfielder Carlos Gomez plus young pitchers Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra, according to a report on USAToday.com. That has been the offer the Mets made weeks ago.

The Mets also discussed possibly substituting reliever Jorge Sosa for Humber in recent days. Santana, who rejected an $80-million, four-year proposal from the Twins, is believed to be seeking a six- or seven-year contract for more than $20 million per year.

Santana has been on the trading block for most of the offseason, after it became clear the Twins were not likely to resign their ace to the long-term big-money contract he is looking for when his current contract expires at the end of the coming season.

It originally appeared that the Mets' cross-town rivals, the New York Yankees, had the best chance to land Santana, but Yankees GM Brian Cashman balked at dealing prized young pitching prospect Phil Hughes.

The defending world champion Boston Red Sox also had been involved in the discussions. Boston was believed to have made two separate offers, one leading with promising lefty starter Jon Lester, who won the clinching game of the World Series, and the other with centerfielder Jacoby Ellsbury, who shined in the Red Sox postseason run.

Details of the trade were first reported by USA Today.

[Jericho]

Big move for the Mets, and what appears to be a disappointing return for the Twins. I'd imagine the Mets have no problem throwing the necessary coin at Santana (6 years at $150). It should also make them strong front runners next season for the NL.

Also a great move for Santana's fantasy stats. In the NL in a pitcher's park? Nice. Only Jake Peavy has a better situation (NL West with Petco).

[Jobronie]

Also a great move for Santana's fantasy stats. In the NL in a pitcher's park? Nice. Only Jake Peavy has a better situation (NL West with Petco).I've said it before and I'll say it again: I can see him winning 25 a few times in the next five years in the NL East, assuming he stays healthy and they don't keep him on too tight a leash.

90 wins for him over the next four years is doable.....

[starman9000]

Damn, I was fine with a trade until it actually happened, now part of me is hoping for a non-too likely train wreck.

[matta]

So, are the Mets now the front runner for the NL? Or do Colorado/Philly/Arizona still have something to say about it?

Philly? They're front runners to finish 3rd in the NL East.

[raven56706]

Mets have a good chance now.

[Deftones]

Big move for the Mets, and what appears to be a disappointing return for the Twins. I'd imagine the Mets have no problem throwing the necessary coin at Santana (6 years at $150). It should also make them strong front runners next season for the NL.

Also a great move for Santana's fantasy stats. In the NL in a pitcher's park? Nice. Only Jake Peavy has a better situation (NL West with Petco).

Well, he's only got one more year at Shea until Citi Park opens in 2009.

Citi Field's dimensions:

Field Dimensions
Left Field - 335 ft (102 m)
Left Center - 379 ft (116 m)
Center Field - 408 ft (124 m)
Right Center - 383 ft (119 m)
Right Field - 330 ft (101 m)

Shea Stadium's dimensions:


Left Field 338 f (103 m)
Medium Left-Center 358 (109)
Left-Center 371 (113)
Left-Center (deep) 396 (121)
Center 410 (125)
Right-Center (deep) 396 (121)
Right- 371 (113)
Medium Right-Center 358 (109)
Right Field 338 (103)


Looks like the new park is not quite as pitcher friendly as Shea. Obviously these dimensions could change at any time.

[Deftones]

Philly? They're front runners to finish 3rd in the NL East.

Right....So the Braves are going to miraculously overcome them when they've lost talent? :lol:

[Jobronie]

Maybe you'll get lucky and see Webb/Johnson/Haren as the starters.Yes, that definitely came into play (well, not the Johnson part) when I order the tix on Saturday. Kinda surprised how that series wasn't more in demand, mid-week in late June be dasmed.

Downside of this deal is, I also ordered tix to see the Twins at Fenway (gawd, the schedule sucked this year if you live five hours away and have children who do spring and summer sports) .....

[Deftones]

Yes, that definitely came into play when I order the tix on Saturday. Kinda surprised how that series wasn't more in demand, mid-week in late June be dasmed.

Downside of this deal is, I also ordered tix to see the Twins at Fenway (gawd, the schedule sucked this year if you live five hours away and have children who do spring and summer sports) .....


Dbacks never draw well on the road. Unless they are in their own division. It's ok. They are fun to watch. I'm sure the Sox will just crush them, but it's ok. :)

[chrisih8u]

At least you got tickets. 7 hours in the VWR before giving up. :johnwoo:

[raven56706]

nice job mets..... happy to see you get this done...but hopefully they get the contract done

[matta]

Right....So the Braves are going to miraculously overcome them when they've lost talent? :lol:

Actually, I was looking at Washington.

[Deftones]

That's even more ridiculous. :lol:

[Flashback]

Wow, if this goes through, I thought the NYY or BST offers looked better. But you never know, plus maybe the Twins MGT. did not want to deal with any backlash from a future AL playoff series.

[parrotheads4]

At least you got tickets. 7 hours in the VWR before giving up. :johnwoo:

12hrs, 6 men, 12 phones, 12 computers, 18 tix -none together

[Jobronie]

At least you got tickets. 7 hours in the VWR before giving up. :johnwoo:Then I'll spare you the number of times I got thru. No Sat. or Sun games tho, if it makes you feel better.

BTW, Sox issued a statement, apologizing for the delays on Saturday. Something to do with increased security slowing everything down. Found it: Herald:After a weekend of single-game ticket sales, the Red Sox announced they have sold 2,343,204 tickets already for 2008, a 2.9 percent increase from the same date last year. Red Sox president and CEO Larry Lucchino said anti-scalping measures instituted for the online sale resulted in delays.

“We truly appreciate this demonstration of support from our fans,” he said in a statement. “The Red Sox are committed in our efforts to make certain that our tickets get into the hands of more individuals.”

[chrisih8u]

Anti-scalping measures. -ohbfrank- What a joke.

[whoopdido]

Hey great job Twins. I mean honestly why would anybody attempt to resign the best pitcher in the game when you can sign an unproven, slow as shit 1st basemen with 1 good year under his belt and Michael Cuddyer to long term contracts?

[Jeremy517]

I know they weren't going to get equal value for Johan, but the Twins still should have done better than a handful of mediocre (at best) prospects.

[sinned]

Peter Gammons was panning the players the Twins got, saying none of them would rank in the top 10 of either the Red Sox or the Yankees' organizations. He even called Humber a non-prospect.

What a coup for the Mets! I didn't think they could get it done without including Martinez and Pelfrey in the deal.

[starman9000]

What a coup for the Mets! I didn't think they could get it done without including Martinez and Pelfrey in the deal.

If you would have told me before the offseason that the Mets would get Johan without dishing Reyes or Wright I would have laughed. This deal makes me cry. Seems like they got more for Garza. All I can do is hope this turns out to be another Pierzynski trade.

[Jobronie]

Wow, if this goes through, I thought the NYY or BST offers looked better. But you never know, plus maybe the Twins MGT. did not want to deal with any backlash from a future AL playoff series.Peter Gammons was panning the players the Twins got, saying none of them would rank in the top 10 of either the Red Sox or the Yankees' organizations. He even called Humber a non-prospect.

What a coup for the Mets! I didn't think they could get it done without including Martinez and Pelfrey in the deal.A guy from the LAD FO called this one back in like October: said people would be very surprised when they saw just how little the Twins would get fro Johan.

I don't think it was any great wheeling/dealing/couping by the Mets. I think it was a combination of the Twins FUBARing the deal once the Meetings were over, and the NYY and Sox lowering their offers big-time once they found out they couldn't extend him with reasonable numbers, like $100M/5. Mets are gonna have to pay thru the nose to get the extension done......

[mgbfan]

This makes no sense. Hughes alone would have been more value than this entire deal. One real prospect and three moderate prospects? And they don't even get Martinez? WTF?

[Sanitarium]

Time for the Twins the to spend the next 5 years or so in the AL basement once again. I wish they would just move.

[Fandango]

I don't see a big difference between the Citi Field and Shea dimensions.

[raven56706]

Peter Gammons was panning the players the Twins got, saying none of them would rank in the top 10 of either the Red Sox or the Yankees' organizations. He even called Humber a non-prospect.

What a coup for the Mets! I didn't think they could get it done without including Martinez and Pelfrey in the deal.


its true what peter said but the guy lives red sox.... so sometimes think about what he says

[matta]

I wonder if this is some sort of negotiating ploy... you know to force the RedSox into upping their offer. Maybe Johan is in on it or something.

The only good that comes from this is that the Mets already had a weak farm system...

[Jobronie]

This makes no sense. Hughes alone would have been more value than this entire deal. One real prospect and three moderate prospects? And they don't even get Martinez? WTF?I believe I explained a way that it makes a ton of sense, one post above yours. Not guaranteeing it's correct, but it IS one possible explanation.

And do you honestly think that if Hughes et al was still on the table, the Twins wouldn't have jumped on that? One report out yesterday said the Sox were working on making a 'creative' offer to the Twins. That tells us something.

And sorry, but I just don't buy "we took less, but he's out of the AL so we don't have to face him now" theory that's going around. Sure, you take a little less to trade a player out of your division, but not THIS much less to ship him to the other league.

Let's see if this extension gets done, and for what terms, before we start firing out shock and disbelief......

[HydroX2]

Braves will still win the NL East.

[Fandango]

Maybe if they had a time machine.

[mphtrilogy]

I think Santana had a lot of say on where he was heading. He knew the Mets would cough up the $$$ and with that no trade looming, he might have steered this right to them to get out of the tough AL to extend his career.

[zekeburger1979]

Time for the Twins the to spend the next 5 years or so in the AL basement once again. I wish they would just move.

What about the K.C. Royals?

Here's their records since 2000:

2000: 77-85
2001: 65-97
2002: 62-100
2003: 83-79 (They were 14-3 against a 43-119 Detroit team and 13-6 against a 68-94 Cleveland team)
2004: 58-104
2005: 56-106
2006: 62-100
2007: 69-93

[matta]

I think Santana had a lot of say on where he was heading. He knew the Mets would cough up the $$$ and with that no trade looming, he might have steered this right to them to get out of the tough AL to extend his career.

Not that I disagree, but it seems strange that we're talking about extending the career of a 28 year old.

[pedagogue]

Yeah....i'm happy. :)

-p

[pedagogue]

They now have Perez at #4, I'd put their top 4-5 against any in baseball. The Soxs are probably #1, Padres maybe at #2, and then the Mets. Look for the mets to have the best ERA in the ML.

-p

[Jericho]

its true what peter said but the guy lives red sox.... so sometimes think about what he says


I agree. Carlos Gomez is a good prospect, and easily a top 10 guy in either the Yanks or Red Sox system. Guerra's pretty damn good too. MAybe better than Gomez. I say both would be top 5 in almost any system.

[B.A.]

Damn, I was fine with a trade until it actually happened, now part of me is hoping for a non-too likely train wreck.I'm still disappointed the fucker turned down the $80mil deal.

Oh well, now maybe I can get a deal on a Twins Santana road jersey.

[Deftones]

They now have Perez at #4, I'd put their top 4-5 against any in baseball. The Soxs are probably #1, Padres maybe at #2, and then the Mets. Look for the mets to have the best ERA in the ML.

-p

Ahem. Dbacks. Provided Randy is healthy, of course.

[B.A.]

This deal looks worse than Brock for Broglio.

[pedagogue]

If you would have told me before the offseason that the Mets would get Johan without dishing Reyes or Wright I would have laughed. This deal makes me cry. Seems like they got more for Garza. All I can do is hope this turns out to be another Pierzynski trade.
That is insane!

Those are franchise players who are locked into long-term deals at well below market value....for a pitcher (top 1-2 in the league) who has 1 year left on a deal. That would have never happened.

-p

[pedagogue]

This makes no sense. Hughes alone would have been more value than this entire deal. One real prospect and three moderate prospects? And they don't even get Martinez? WTF?
The twins are really high on Gomez....who I think is the real deal, but I agree with you that Hughes was better than anyone the Mets had available, by far. The yanks were smart in keeping him. I hate the yanks, but they made a nice no-play here.

-p

[Tommy_Harn]

If this trade goes through, the question is: Will Santana even be the best Shortstop in the NL East?

[starman9000]

I believe I explained a way that it makes a ton of sense, one post above yours. Not guaranteeing it's correct, but it IS one possible explanation.

And do you honestly think that if Hughes et al was still on the table, the Twins wouldn't have jumped on that? One report out yesterday said the Sox were working on making a 'creative' offer to the Twins. That tells us something.

And sorry, but I just don't buy "we took less, but he's out of the AL so we don't have to face him now" theory that's going around. Sure, you take a little less to trade a player out of your division, but not THIS much less to ship him to the other league.

Let's see if this extension gets done, and for what terms, before we start firing out shock and disbelief......


Yeah, I'm with you. Rumors here are that Santana basically said do a deal now or he will just exercise his no trade clause until the end of the season

[matta]

That is insane!

Those are franchise players who are locked into long-term deals at well below market value....for a pitcher (top 1-2 in the league) who has 1 year left on a deal. That would have never happened.

-p

No, it wouldn't have, which is why I wrote the Mets off early (I thought Reyes or Wright was necessary, as well).

The Mets caught a deal on this one...

[matta]

Yeah, I'm with you. Rumors here are that Santana basically said do a deal now or he will just exercise his no trade clause until the end of the season

It would have been great if they just Lindross'ed him for a season for being such a little bitch.

[cardsfan111]

This deal seems like a slam dunk for the Mets now. Of course, baseball trades involving pitchers can always turn on a dime...or rather a shoulder or an elbow or a...

[starman9000]

No, it wouldn't have, which is why I wrote the Mets off early (I thought Reyes or Wright was necessary, as well).

The Mets caught a deal on this one...

Yeah, I wouldn't have expected them to trade one of those guys, but early reports said the Mets didn't have any of the necessary prospects to get it done otherwise.

[matta]

Yeah, I wouldn't have expected them to trade one of those guys, but early reports said the Mets didn't have any of the necessary prospects to get it done otherwise.


They still don't have the necessary prospects to get this deal to make sense. That's why it's such a steal.

I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but like someone mentioned, it was either Santana steering the deal or the Twins offended that the Yanks and BoSox were lukewarm on the deal. I really think the Twins were just fishing for a better offer from the AL east, and got stuck when they didn't get a bite.

[vegasbaby]

The big question is ... is he healthy?

After the whole Hampton/Zito long term fiasco deals, I hope the Mets dont pay 120 Mil for a guy who'll have 2 good years, tops.

[dieinafire]

That stinks. I wanted the Sox to get him and I would have given up Lester, Ellsbury, and 5 years, $125.

You would have given up both? Maybe one or the other, but both those guys have bright careers ahead of them. As long as he did not go to the Yanks, I am happy.

[Dave7393]

I hope this turns out a bit better for the Mets than the last prospects-for-star-pitcher trade that they pulled off win the Twins (Frank Viola). Not that that was a bad trade, but I don't think it's what everyone expected, longterm.

I think Santana will end up with a 5yr/$135-ish mil deal-- I don't think the Mets will go for six.

A few months ago, I would've put the Mets at a very distant 3rd in the Santana race-- I really don't know of any hometown fans who thought he'd seriously be a Met in '08. Best move they've made in a while, and I think Minnesota really got the short end on this one.

[matta]

I think Santana will end up with a 5yr/$135-ish mil deal-- I don't think the Mets will go for six.


That's a lot of money... I bet he'll go closer to 6yr/$140MM

But then again, I'm way off on everything about this deal so far (other than when it would happen -- see MLB thread)

[mgbfan]

They still don't have the necessary prospects to get this deal to make sense.
With Martinez they do. That's the strangest thing. He's not part of the deal. That shoulda been a given.

[shacmasta]

Ya Gotta Believe

[briank]

Ya Gotta Believe

Well I'd love to think that, but somehow at the end of the season I'm sure I'll still be thinking "Ya Gotta Bereave" instead.

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a997/a997.gif

[Da Thrilla]

As a life-long Twins fan, I must say this deal...is total bullshit.

That's all I've got to say.

[Jobronie]

I really don't know of any hometown fans who thought he'd seriously be a Met in '08. Ahem.

Granted, more like Red Sox lifer transplanted to north Jersey (after five+ years in Manhattan); ten years total, say. But having had a chance over the past few years to discuss up close how his philosophy/thought process works, I've been saying for many months that Omar would find a way to get this done. I was just really, really wrong about how it would get done. And FWIW, while this whole thing has been going on, Santana was one subject we never discussed.

[kmac2878]

You would have given up both? Maybe one or the other, but both those guys have bright careers ahead of them. As long as he did not go to the Yanks, I am happy.

:up:

[coli]

And the rich get richer in baseball........................

[Jobronie]

It's long: (http://www.northjersey.com/sports/mets/14896371.html) This was late Monday night, about 12 hours before the Mets would pounce upon their most dramatic trade in recent history. Twins' general manager Bill Smith, in a panic to move Johan Santana, called the Yankees and admitted surrender: Phil Hughes was no longer a prerequisite, he said. Instead, the Twins asked for Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera and a top prospect. Would the Yankees still be interested, Smith wondered?

The Yankees considered the idea, but only briefly and not seriously. Their passion for Santana started waning as far back as December, when Andy Pettitte announced he was returning to the Bronx. The Yankees' internal straw vote was unanimous: The Twins had waited too long. On Tuesday Yankees' GM Brian Cashman told Smith he was passing on the deal, prompting the Twins to call the Red Sox. Equally devastating news awaited. Both Jacoby Ellsbury and Jon Lester were unavailable.

The Red Sox, in lock step with the Yankees, had essentially backed out, too.

That left the Mets, who after hearing from Smith didn't allow themselves to be bluffed. GM Omar Minaya held firm, insisting the Twins would have to live without Fernando Martinez. As a result -- and thanks to the Twins' grim realization that they were without options -- the Mets made off with a heist of mammoth proportions. They inherit the major league's best left-handed pitcher, one who's a lock to dominate National League hitters, without giving up a can't-miss prospect.

It almost seems too good to be true: a two-time Cy Young Award winner for center fielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra. The surge through the organization Tuesday afternoon was unmistakable. Even though the Wilpon family will have to write an astronomical check to Santana, the Mets satisfied their most pressing need, which was to counter the effects of last September's history-making collapse.

What will that be worth to the Mets? "No less than Zito," is what one major league official speculated, referring to the seven-year, $126 million contract Barry Zito extracted from the Giants last year. It could be even more costly than that since Santana will asking for upward of $140 million. One person familiar with the Mets' thinking believes it will take "all 72 hours" of the three-day window to come to terms with the left-hander, although no one doubts a settlement will be reached.

[Qui Gon Jim]

You would have given up both? Maybe one or the other, but both those guys have bright careers ahead of them. As long as he did not go to the Yanks, I am happy.
I agree. I would have like to see Santana and Beckett in the same rotation, but I am just as happy keeping what they have and not facing him much during the year.

How will that primadonna Pedro handle this news? Who is the opening day starter for NY?

[raven56706]

if the twins wanted ian kennedy, i am not sure why the yankees didnt do it...

i mean i like ian but Santana would be a freaking big help... oh well... as long as he didnt go to Boston

[starman9000]

How will that primadonna Pedro handle this news? Who is the opening day starter for NY?

Santana running away. I don't think Pedro is in any position to worry about this. If it were 6 years ago yeah.

[starman9000]

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/mets/14896371.html It's long


Thanks for that link. Smith definatly is not endearing himself to Twins' fans. Makes me wonder what might have happened if Ryan would have stayed on until the Santana deal was done.

[chrisih8u]

You would have given up both? Maybe one or the other, but both those guys have bright careers ahead of them. As long as he did not go to the Yanks, I am happy.


Im not going to say I'm the best GM ever :lol:, but yes I would have. The best pitcher in baseball? Beckett/Santana back to back? Yeah, definitely.

[Jobronie]

Thanks for that link. Smith definatly is not endearing himself to Twins' fans. Makes me wonder what might have happened if Ryan would have stayed on until the Santana deal was done.Smith is getting absolutely killed around the interweb.

He could go around drowning cute little kittens and puppies right now, and it would only help his image......

[starman9000]

Yeah, it's gonna be hard to make this deal look good. Even if a couple of these guys pan out, if Hughes/Lester/Ellsbury/etc end up being great he will still be slammed.

I liked the Garza deal he did though, so I'm not ready to give up yet.

[Goat3001]

It's long: (http://www.northjersey.com/sports/mets/14896371.html)

Not sure if I but this story. Yankees not jumping on Santana for Kennedy, Melky and a third top prospect? Don't buy it. They wouldn't have even hesitated.

[bralph]

Not sure if I but this story. Yankees not jumping on Santana for Kennedy, Melky and a third top prospect? Don't buy it. They wouldn't have even hesitated.

Who needs a in-his-prime Santana, when you have 36 year old Andy Pettitte coming back?

I'm a Tigers fan, so I'm glad he's out of the AL, and the Central in particular.

[rabbit77]

I'm a Tigers fan, so I'm glad he's out of the AL, and the Central in particular.

Don't be too glad, The Tiger went 3-1 against him last year. I'm just glad the Twins raised the white flag. As a White Sox fan I have nothing to look forward to this year other than better season ticket seats.

[pedagogue]

People are under-estimating how much MIN valued Gomez; he is a top prospect because he is a 5 tool player. Guerra is raw but has a high ceiling. Mulvey is about to turn the corner...I was pretty mad when he was initially mentioned a couple months ago. I really think he'll be solid. At worst I think MIN got a future stud CF and solid arm. Guerra could go big too....and Humber, maybe good, maybe not. I think he'll be a middle inning guy.

It wasn't a complete hosing....but it definitely wasn't a fair deal. :D Btw....once Hughes was pulled, I knew that wasn't going to happen. Melky is over-rated....Hughes....is not.

-p

[Sorraffy]

What a great trade Minnesota

rotfl

hey at least now KC won't finish last for the next few years

[Johnny Fever]

And the rich get richer in baseball........................

Amen. Of course fans of large market teams will say the current system works just fine. :rolleyes:

[starman9000]

Maybe Coli means that Pohlad, the richest man in baseball, just got richer by getting rid of Santana's salary. Yes, we just voted them a new stadium, and they rewarded us by cutting payroll for next year.....not that we didn't see that coming.

[Johnny Fever]

Maybe Coli means that Pohlad, the richest man in baseball, just got richer by getting rid of Santana's salary. Yes, we just voted them a new stadium, and they rewarded us by cutting payroll for next year.....not that we didn't see that coming.

Didn't the Nationals do the same thing (ie. cut payroll) after passing the vote for a new stadium ?

Definately a great trade for the Mets who are a the "win" now mode. As for the Twins, it looks like they are now officially in the constant rebuilding mode a-la- Marlins and the former Montreal Expos.

[matta]

I love the arguments on the Braves board about how the Braves still have a better rotation :lol:

[starman9000]

Didn't the Nationals do the same thing (ie. cut payroll) after passing the vote for a new stadium ?

Definately a great trade for the Mets who are a the "win" now mode. As for the Twins, it looks like they are now officially in the constant rebuilding mode a-la- Marlins and the former Montreal Expos.

I think Bud's team...I mean his daughters team, did. I'm not giving up on the Twins, but it's annoying. They still have enough young potential, that they could put something together. Mauer and Morneau both need to put together full seasons though. Mostly this team is hinging on Young panning out as an elite hitter.

[Johnny Fever]

I think Bud's team...I mean his daughters team, did. I'm not giving up on the Twins, but it's annoying. They still have enough young potential, that they could put something together. Mauer and Morneau both need to put together full seasons though. Mostly this team is hinging on Young panning out as an elite hitter.

As an Expos fan, I hear ya and was hoping the Twins would find a way to hang on to him. What ever talent you get in return in one of these trades, the team sends a pretty clear message to the fans. Salary dump.

This trade reminds me a lot of the Expos trading Pedro Martinez who was coming off winning the Cy Young award to the RedSox. Let's hope the prospects the Twins got turn out better then what the Expos got in return (2 broken down pitchers in Pavano and Armas jr.).

[dieinafire]

I agree. I would have like to see Santana and Beckett in the same rotation, but I am just as happy keeping what they have and not facing him much during the year.

How will that primadonna Pedro handle this news? Who is the opening day starter for NY?

I think Pedro will handle it, he knows he is not a top of the rotation starter anymore.

[Spicollidriver1]

I don't see this as a salary dump at all I see this as there is no chance in hell we are ever gonna sign this guy and if you think this deal is bad now it would of been much worse in june.

[dieinafire]

Im not going to say I'm the best GM ever :lol:, but yes I would have. The best pitcher in baseball? Beckett/Santana back to back? Yeah, definitely.

Don't get me wrong, I would contemplate it also, and we would destroy everyone next year with him. I am just thinking that we still have enough to win, and also be stacked for years to come. I think Lester, and Jacoby can be awesome though.

[dieinafire]

Who needs a in-his-prime Santana, when you have 36 year old Andy Pettitte coming back?

I'm a Tigers fan, so I'm glad he's out of the AL, and the Central in particular.

It would not have mattered if he stayed. Tigers are stacked now. They scare me as a Red Sox fan. I would not be surprised if they win 100 games next year.

[dieinafire]

I don't see this as a salary dump at all I see this as there is no chance in hell we are ever gonna sign this guy and if you think this deal is bad now it would of been much worse in june.

Yea, there was no chance Johan was staying in MN. He did turn down a 4 year $80 extension. That's big market money.

[Dave7393]

I think Pedro will handle it, he knows he is not a top of the rotation starter anymore.

No doubt. I never even thought this as being an issue for a moment. Pedro knows he's lucky to make it into the seventh inning on any given outing. He's still a hell of a pitcher, but it's not 2000 anymore.

[matta]

I don't see this as a salary dump at all I see this as there is no chance in hell we are ever gonna sign this guy and if you think this deal is bad now it would of been much worse in june.

The rumor is that Santana threatened to invoke his No Trade Clause if he was still in Minn at the start of Spring Training. So, Minn had the option of keeping him and trying for a playoff run ( :lol: ) with a pissed off Santana, or trade him for what they could get now.

[Quake1028]

Damn the Yankees FO to hell if they really could have gotten Santana for Kennedy-Melky-someonenotnamedJoba/Phil/Cano/etc. If that's true, that really fucking pisses me off.

[matta]

Damn the Yankees FO to hell if they really could have gotten Santana for Kennedy-Melky-someonenotnamedJoba/Phil/Cano/etc. If that's true, that really fucking pisses me off.

It may have also been the money or the scouts might know about some health issues. It's hard to second guess someone when you don't have all the information. Like someone said, all the Mets need is 1 Tommy John surgery and this thing goes from a great deal to a Mike Hampton type deal.

[Quake1028]

Ifs and buts and what happens ifs. Fact is the guy is in his prime, the best pitcher in baseball, finally an ace who can match and probably out-do Beckett, and all the Twins apparently wanted was Melky-Ian-X. Like I said, if that's true, that's inexcusable and fucking pisses me off. And you and I know it's never about the money with the Yankees, especially to keep a player away from Boston.

[matta]

Ifs and buts and what happens ifs. Fact is the guy is in his prime, the best pitcher in baseball, finally an ace who can match and probably out-do Beckett, and all the Twins apparently wanted was Melky-Ian-X. Like I said, if that's true, that's inexcusable and fucking pisses me off. And you and I know it's never about the money with the Yankees, especially to keep a player away from Boston.

How do you know what they have? Just go with me on this.... if you had some indication that Santana's poor end-of-season performance last year was due to soreness, and he's still feeling something during the off season, would you dump prospects and $150 million on him? Probably not. Now who is to say that the Yankees don't have some report like that?

[FantasticVSDoom]

Even the Yankees have some sense of money issues... Sure its not where everybody else's is, but they don't need to lose any more of their young talent. You can't have it both ways. Either they build up their farm system and younger players, or they continue to trade it away.

[Quake1028]

Even the Yankees have some sense of money issues... Sure its not where everybody else's is, but they don't need to lose any more of their young talent. You can't have it both ways. Either they build up their farm system and younger players, or they continue to trade it away.

This is a completely different situation from years past because:

1.Santana is in his prime, and would be locked up. He's no ancient rent-a-player.

2.With the deal being as reported, the Yankees would have gotten him without giving up a top 5 (or even top 10, depending on who you listen to) prospect. This isn't a case where they would be mortgaging the farm to get a guy.

[matta]

1.Santana is in his prime, and would be locked up. He's no ancient rent-a-player.

But the point is: how do you know that? Honestly, how can you say that you're better informed of the health issues, future performance, and contract situation of Santana than the GM's, scouts, and owners of major MLB teams, whose sole jobs are to be as informed as humanly possible about these facts?

I can give you all sorts of scenarios where you, as GM of the Yankees, wouldn't have made the trade. Maybe Santana has health issues with his arm. Maybe Santana's agent expressed that he didn't want to stay in the AL and wouldn't make a deal with the Yankees. Maybe the purse strings were cut off. Maybe there's another deal in the works using some of these chips. How do you know with certainty that none of that transpired?

It's easy to armchair GM a team (I know, I do it too).

[pedagogue]

If everything else was equal (good health, good scouting, no red flags), and they could have gotten him without giving up Hughes/Joba/Cano.......then they are idiots. I hope it isn't a health thing, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was Santana telling them he'd Veto'd it. I think the Mets are easier to play for than the Yanks....especially given the latin connection Omar is setting up, and Santana being close with Castillo.

-p

[matta]

If everything else was equal (good health, good scouting, no red flags), and they could have gotten him without giving up Hughes/Joba/Cano.......then they are idiots.

Exactly. And most people don't get to high level positions in multi-billion dollar companies because they're idiots. Middle manager is usually the highest an idiot can get.

So there's something else. I'm not really sure what it is, but I don't really think you can say that it's considerably "easier" to play for the Metropolitan Baseball Club.

[mgbfan]

Middle manager is usually the highest an idiot can get.

Either that or the White House.

[matta]

Either that or the White House.

I know it's popular to bash the guy, but seriously, the guy had an SAT score over 1200, an IQ test over 120. Even ignoring his Harvard and Yale degrees (because that just opens the floor for "but his daddy got him in" arguments), how can you say the guy is an idiot? Now, I'm sure half of DVDTalk scored higher than that on the SAT, but comparing him to the population, he's above average and no where near an idiot.

[will travel]

TWINS GOT FLEECE.

It's a SAD day to be a Twins Fan. :mad:

[cardsfan111]

A couple more moves like this Santana trade and the NL can be competitve again in the All-star game! :banana:

[Jobronie]

I know it's popular to bash the guy, but seriously, the guy had an SAT score over 1200, an IQ test over 120. Even ignoring his Harvard and Yale degrees (because that just opens the floor for "but his daddy got him in" arguments), how can you say the guy is an idiot? Now, I'm sure half of DVDTalk scored higher than that on the SAT, but comparing him to the population, he's above average and no where near an idiot.Don't make us whip out our MENSA cards.......

[Trevor]

As a Twins fan, I'm a little disappointed. It sounds like the earlier rejected offers from the AL East were both better. But I'm glad to get him out of the AL at least.

And I'm actually glad that he didn't resign. I'm usually an optimistic guy, but not when it comes to a pitcher's health and longevity. I think we got the best years of Santana.

[mgbfan]

I know it's popular to bash the guy, but seriously, the guy had an SAT score over 1200, an IQ test over 120. Even ignoring his Harvard and Yale degrees (because that just opens the floor for "but his daddy got him in" arguments), how can you say the guy is an idiot? Now, I'm sure half of DVDTalk scored higher than that on the SAT, but comparing him to the population, he's above average and no where near an idiot.
Settle down there big guy. It was a joke. Bush clearly isn't an idiot in the classical, technical sense of the word. He's simply underqualified and underequipped for the job.

[Qui Gon Jim]

I'm not really sure what it is, but I don't really think you can say that it's considerably "easier" to play for the Metropolitan Baseball Club.

Compared to playing for NYY or Boston and facing the AL and specifically the AL East lineups? Everyone knows that things are easier in the NL for pitchers.

[VinVega]

Haven't been on in a few days. Heard about this trade. What a steal by the Mets. The Twins got very little for Santana. The Mets had an already weak farm system and at this point it's basically barren of top talent. They better win soon because the future down there is not bright.

[Dave7393]

I just heard on WFAN that sources say that Santana wants 6yr/$150 mil, but the Mets are balking at a six-year deal.

[Fandango]

No one ever mentioned his health before and now when he gets traded all the Twins fans see that as an issue.

[starman9000]

No one ever mentioned his health before and now when he gets traded all the Twins fans see that as an issue.

Yeah, if you listen to Local MN radio, half the callers will have you believing he is an average at best Pitcher, a clubhouse cancer, and has a paper elbow.

(though I wouldn't limit it to Twins fans, it seems a lot of non-Met's fans are saying the same thing)

[Jobronie]

No one ever mentioned his health before and now when he gets traded all the Twins fans see that as an issue.No, his health has been to some extent.

He had that string of 5 or 6 lousy games out of his final 8 toward the end of the season, and that was a cause for concern (albeit minor) and questioning in some circles........

[Jobronie]

Some of the stuff going around (Nightengale at USAToday, MetsBlog, etc.):

They are close on the money: ~$21.5M per.
5 or 6 years appears to be the issue: Mets prefer 5 plus an option; Santana wants all 6 guaranteed.


Sounds like another sticking point may be the $13.25M for '08. Tacking on a big signing bonus to bring '08 up to the rest of the contract's AAV could ease the pain.

EDIT: I got nothing. His son is sick as a dog, so I won't see him all weekend.

[raven56706]

mets better get this done... if not... biggest blunder in history....

[Fandango]

They'll get it done, they could make a compromise of a performance incentive which will guarantee a sixth year or something like that.

[matta]

Compared to playing for NYY or Boston and facing the AL and specifically the AL East lineups? Everyone knows that things are easier in the NL for pitchers.

So.... who's the powerhouse in the AL East? I mean, if he plays for the NYY or the BoSox, he only really has to worry about the other one. The rest of the division is average to weak. On the other hand, in the NL East, he has to face Atlanta and Philly and an improving Washington.

Plus, now he has to learn how to hit.

[chrisih8u]

Things will be much easier for Santana now that he has the best defensive 3B in the NL behind him.

[Birrman54]

So.... who's the powerhouse in the AL East? I mean, if he plays for the NYY or the BoSox, he only really has to worry about the other one. The rest of the division is average to weak. On the other hand, in the NL East, he has to face Atlanta and Philly and an improving Washington.

Plus, now he has to learn how to hit.

Tampa Bay's lineup is at least as good as the Nationals, and probably almost as good as the Braves, albeit much less proven.

The Orioles and Jays I'll grant you - but either way, in the NL he faces 8 real batters, in the AL it's 9.

[Jobronie]

Plus, now he has to learn how to hit.I read one report the other day that said he's a really, really good hitter. Now, whether he can get that back after how many years in the AL.........

[matta]

I read one report the other day that said he's a really, really good hitter. Now, whether he can get that back after how many years in the AL.........


The one thing that really bothers me about pitchers hitting in the NL is the potential for iinjury. All it takes is one bunt attempt to break a finger...

[Jobronie]

Heyman:

With Friday's 5 p.m. ET deadline approaching, the sides are believed to be more than $20 million apart[...]One person with knowledge of the talks pegged a recent Mets offer at about $21.5 million per year over six years on top of the $13.25 million salary Santana's already guaranteed for 2008, bringing the total package to $142.25 million. It is believed Santana has been seeking a deal closer to $170 million total.

[HydroX2]

Things will be much easier for Santana now that he has the best defensive 3B in the NL behind him.

Chipper Jones plays for the Mets!?!? When did this happen?

[matta]

What? $170 million for a once-in-five-days guy? That's insane, he'll be lucky to get $150 million.

It would be so great if this fell through..... actually, the best case scenario is that the trade goes through with guaranteed money, and Santana decides he doesn't want to play baseball anymore, and just watches TV and gets fat on the couch all day.

Mets - $150 million - prospects - Santana = 100% awesome

[matta]

Chipper Jones plays for the Mets!?!? When did this happen?

No, no, you're getting confused. See, David Wright won the Gold Glove award, which makes him the best defensive 3B in the league. Of course, he was robbed for the Nobel Prize in Economics, since he was more deserving of that than the Gold Glove...

[raven56706]

Mets + $150 million + prospects - Santana = 100% 4th place


fixed

[starman9000]

I read one report the other day that said he's a really, really good hitter. Now, whether he can get that back after how many years in the AL.........

Yeah, he's a good hitter. He started as an OF and is still a god athlete, but yeah, he hasn't hit very much in the past few years for sure.

[matta]

Mets - $150 million - prospects + Santana = 100% 3rd place

fixed

fixed

[matta]

Yeah, he's a good hitter. He started as an OF and is still a god athlete, but yeah, he hasn't hit very much in the past few years for sure.

Wow. I've never seen such high expectations.

[Fandango]

Lol, gotta love all the salty braves fans in the thread.

[matta]

Lol, gotta love all the salty braves fans in the thread.

I believe I'm on record as saying "Go Mets". (I'm tired of supporting a team that can't afford any of it's best players - I want a team with some deep pockets.)

But I still am a Saltalamacchia fan, back from his AA days :sad:

[HydroX2]

Wright had more errors and errors per attempt at third. Wright just gets more attention because he plays in a big market city. Go Braves!

[matta]

Wright had more errors and errors per attempt at third. Wright just gets more attention because he plays in a big market city. Go Braves!


David Wright Equation:
Big city + face of franchise + young guy + franchise doing well + somewhat good looking + good interview personality + not-for-profit foundation = gold glove

Jeff Francoeur Equation:
Moderately sized city + face of franchise + young guy + franchise sucks balls + somewhat good looking + good interview personality + not-for-profit foundation = half of a gold glove

[Dave7393]

Third Basemen? Gold Gloves? Okay guys, back on topic.. sheesh....

Less than 17 hrs to go: final predictions (total guaranteed contract value / yrs of contract..... or does anyone think this deal will bust?):

6 yrs guaranteed / $150 mil (incl bonuses/incentives)

[matta]

I still stick to my 6 yr / $140MM, but I think he'll get performance incentives on top of that.

No, it won't bust. If that happens, the Mets won't have to worry about paying to have Shea torn down.

[VinVega]

There's way too much math going on in this thread right now, but matta is bringing teh funny. :lol:

[starman9000]

I know they have a window, but is that something that is set in stone in the CBA, or if all parties agree can they continue to discuss past the 72 hours?

[VinVega]

I know they have a window, but is that something that is set in stone in the CBA, or if all parties agree can they continue to discuss past the 72 hours?
I've heard that the window can be extended.

[pedagogue]

David Wright Equation:
Big city + face of franchise + young guy + franchise doing well + somewhat good looking + good interview personality + not-for-profit foundation = gold glove

Jeff Francoeur Equation:
Moderately sized city + face of franchise + young guy + franchise sucks balls + somewhat good looking + good interview personality + not-for-profit foundation = half of a gold glove
Stop thread-crapping. This is a thread about JOHAN SANTANA. Go talk about that crap in another thread.

[pedagogue]

There's way too much math going on in this thread right now, but matta is bringing teh funny. :lol:
Funny? I thought it was obnoxiously off topic.

[mphtrilogy]

Back on point, I hope this thing is locked in today.. please no Vlad revisited here

[Qui Gon Jim]

So.... who's the powerhouse in the AL East? I mean, if he plays for the NYY or the BoSox, he only really has to worry about the other one. The rest of the division is average to weak. On the other hand, in the NL East, he has to face Atlanta and Philly and an improving Washington.

Plus, now he has to learn how to hit.
There is a DH on every AL team who is hired specifically for his ability to hit. Is it even a debate that a pitcher's ERA is better in the NL as a whole over AL pitching? A NL pitcher faces another pitcher a couple at-bats in every game.

[matta]

There is a DH on every AL team who is hired specifically for his ability to hit. Is it even a debate that a pitcher's ERA is better in the NL as a whole over AL pitching? A NL pitcher faces another pitcher a couple at-bats in every game.

There's no doubt that there's a difference between the AL and NL, but the point is that the AL East isn't that much more difficult to play in than the NL East. Sure, an individual game may be tougher, but there are better overall teams in the NL East (minus Mets) than the AL East (minus Yanks/Sox). Plus, the Mets with Santana are nowhere near the lock the Yankees with Santana would be to make the playoffs.

[matta]

Stop thread-crapping. This is a thread about JOHAN SANTANA. Go talk about that crap in another thread.

Whoa, calm down. We're discussing the defense behind Santana. That ultimately impacts many of his numbers, right?

[Jobronie]

Sorry this is so way off-topic, but one or two guys may have an interest:

Newsday: Santana will likely get a six-year extension worth roughly $23 million a year, on top of the $13.25 million owed to him this season, adding, “A signing bonus could be included that would take the total to just over $150 million.”

[Jobronie]

Rosenthal: 11:09 AM EST

The Mets are offering Johan Santana by far the highest salary ever for a pitcher under a multiyear contract.
However, the structure of the deal remains an issue only hours away from today's 5 p.m. ET deadline to strike a deal, according to major league sources.

The Mets' offer is in the range of $22 million per season. The hang-up is that the Mets want the guarantee to be for five years, with vesting options that could extend the deal, sources say.

Santana's agents, Peter and Ed Greenberg,, want a guarantee of six or seven years.

"We've still got a ways to go, but we're in a lot better position than we were a few days ago," said a source close to the negotiations.link (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7741778/Mets,-Santana-still-haggling-over-historic-deal)

[matta]

Sorry this is so way off-topic, but one or two guys may have an interest:

I don't know why people keep saying that, we've stayed on topic more than any other thread in the history of DVDTalk.

AL East vs. NL East goes to Santana's motive to stay in one division or another

Mets' 3B GGer goes to the defense behind him, and how that will impact his numbers. Underlying that is the tangential discussion of Santana's pitching style.

As for the numbers, $23/yr for 6 years is $138 million (plus incentives), which is right what I said it would be. That's probably a good compromise for both parties.

I'm not so sure what the sticking point is with the 5 vs 6 years. Maybe it's a way for the Mets to try to drive down the price.

[Dave7393]

I don't know why people keep saying that, we've stayed on topic more than any other thread in the history of DVDTalk.

AL East vs. NL East goes to Santana's motive to stay in one division or another

Mets' 3B GGer goes to the defense behind him, and how that will impact his numbers. Underlying that is the tangential discussion of Santana's pitching style.

As for the numbers, $23/yr for 6 years is $138 million (plus incentives), which is right what I said it would be. That's probably a good compromise for both parties.

I'm not so sure what the sticking point is with the 5 vs 6 years. Maybe it's a way for the Mets to try to drive down the price.

People keep saying that because it's true :). Discussing who'll be playing behind Santana is one thing, but it's a big stretch to claim that arguing who deserves the Gold Glove at 3rd in the NL is relevant to this thread. But anyway....

Mets don't want to give more than a 5th, and Santana is going for 6 or 7, guaranteed. I recall the Mets having the position (before this negotiation) that they didn't want to give longer than 5 yr deals to SPs. I'll be shocked at 7, I think they will (and should) compromise at 6.

[raven56706]

6 is fine with an option for seven....

[raven56706]

By Jon Heyman, SI.com

Johan Santana and the Mets continue to make progress on a record-setting contract that is expected to make the two-time Cy Young winner a $150-million man, SI.com has learned. People with knowledge of the talks say they expect a deal to be completed by the 5 p.m. EST deadline.

Santana and the Mets are discussing a contract extension for six years that is expected to pay Santana close to $22 million a year, according to sources familiar with the talks. In addition, it is believed the Mets may add about $7 million to Santana's $13.25 million salary for 2008.

That expected new $20 million salary for '08, and the six additional years at $22 million, could bring Santana's total haul to $152 million. The previous record for a pitcher was Barry Zito's $126-million, seven-year deal signed last winter with the San Francisco Giants.

It is believed the players union has been pressing Santana's agents, Peter and Ed Greenberg, to beat the $150-million threshold, as Santana is setting the standard for pitchers and will likely affect the salaries of other top-of-the-line starters. The Mets, who originally hoped to keep the package to five additional years, have been hoping to keep the total compensation below $150 million.

Santana's Twins contract is set to run out after the '08 season, and the Mets are trying to satisfy his financial requests to convince him to waive his full no-trade clause and agree to commit to the Mets on a multiyear basis. The Mets sent four prospects to the Twins for the right to negotiate with Santana: outfielder Carlos Gomez plus pitchers Kevin Mulvey, Phil Humber and Deolis Guerra.


looks like it will go through

[Jobronie]

I recall the Mets having the position (before this negotiation) that they didn't want to give longer than 5 yr deals to SPs. I'll be shocked at 7, I think they will (and should) compromise at 6.Yeah, and Epstein swore never to give anyone more than four years. Enter DiceK and JD Drew.

Market factors, my man, market factors.....

[Jobronie]

looks like it will go throughYup, close enough to go past the deadline if they need to.....

[Dave7393]

Yeah, and Epstein swore never to give anyone more than four years. Enter DiceK and JD Drew.

Market factors, my man, market factors.....

...and the best one yet: Hank Jr. and the A-Rod Opt-Out. So much for the hardline from the front office. Whatever it takes to sign this guy, it'll happen.

[Jobronie]

Stark: The buzz in the industry Friday was that Santana's agents, Peter and Ed Greenberg, initially asked for the $28 million per year listed in Roger Clemens' prorated contract with the Yankees last season -- which would have amounted to a six-year, $168 million extension. That amount would not have included either a signing bonus or the $13.25 million Santana is scheduled to earn this season. So his total package would have topped $190 million.

There were indications that the Greenbergs later lowered that request to $25 million a year -- which would have resulted in a six-year, $150 million extension and a total package (including this season) of more than $170 million.

[Jobronie]

Deadline extended to 7PM

[Michael Sheridan]

ESPN just announced that the deal is officially done. No specifics mentioned, but all that is left is the physicals.

[Jobronie]

Rosenthal:

The Mets locked up Santana for the next seven years, signing him to a six-year, $137.5 million extension on top of the final year of his current deal, which is valued at $13.25 million. The total value of the package is just under $150.75 million, making his new average salary $21.3 million — a record for a pitcher on a long-term contract.

[Deftones]

Good. He deserves that record for a pitcher over Zito. :lol:

[starman9000]

Glad it's finally over. If that stands, it really isn't much more than the supposed 5 years 20 mil the Twins offered.

[Jobronie]

Glad it's finally over. If that stands, it really isn't much more than the supposed 5 years 20 mil the Twins offered.Really. What's one more year and another $37.5M when you're talking about a pitcher who'll be 36 during the final year of the contract........

[pedagogue]

Mets' 3B GGer goes to the defense behind him, and how that will impact his numbers. Underlying that is the tangential discussion of Santana's pitching style.

At least now you have something else to complain about. Have fun with Maine as a #3 and Ollie as a #4. :D

-p

[starman9000]

Really. What's one more year and another $37.5M when you're talking about a pitcher who'll be 36 during the final year of the contract........


Hey, it's not much when it's not my money.

[VinVega]

At least now you have something else to complain about. Have fun with Maine as a #3 and Ollie as a #4. :D

-p
I don't really like the back end of the Mets' rotation, but if Pedro can stay healthy, they should win the NL East.

[matta]

At least now you have something else to complain about. Have fun with Maine as a #3 and Ollie as a #4. :D

-p

What? I'm a Met's fan now. Go Mets!

[shacmasta]

Bottom line....

Only one thing was going to ease the pain of the historic collapse of '07 and that thing was a trade or signing of this magnitude. Nothing made more sense then Johan Santana in a Mets uniform.

Signing A-rod and moving wright to 2nd or reyes, wasn't going to do that without opening another can of worms. Or even Signing/Trading A1 or 2 type Rotation Starters like Blanton, Haren or Bedard.

The Mets had to do this and because of this I can finally say this for the 1st time with excitement and anticipation.....

Pitchers & Catchers Report in
11 days 18 hr 43 min

[pedagogue]

I don't really like the back end of the Mets' rotation, but if Pedro can stay healthy, they should win the NL East.
If Perez has another good season he's looking at a $12-$14m/yr payday. Maine would be a solid #3 on anyone but the Sox's staff.

[Jobronie]

The Star Tribune has learned the terms of Johan Santana’s new deal with the New York Mets. As reported, it is a six-year, $137.5 million commitment, but La Velle just received the full details.

(*) The Mets ripped up Santana’s original contract. So it no longer matters that the Twins owed Santana $13.25 million for 2008.

(*) Santana got a six-year deal with an option for 2014. The terms:
2008: $19 million
2009: $20 million
2010: $21 million
2011: $22.5 million
2012: $24 million
2013: $25.5 million
2014 (option): $25 million, with a $5.5 million buyout.

Note: It’s a vesting option that can be triggered with innings pitched or a high finish in the Cy Young voting. Santana also received a full no-trade clause.lync (http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/?p=478)

[dieinafire]

lync (http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/?p=478)

You know, if any pitcher deserves to be the highest paid, it's Johan, but this just seems risky. If he gets hurt, then this could fuck the Mets big time. I think any pitcher who gets more than 5 years, is a huge risk. They are just way more likely to get hurt, and if it's the shoulder, or the arm, then they are more likely to not return to their previous form. We'll see.

[pedagogue]

What? I'm a Met's fan now. Go Mets!

:lol:

[starman9000]

You know, if any pitcher deserves to be the highest paid, it's Johan, but this just seems risky. If he gets hurt, then this could fuck the Mets big time. I think any pitcher who gets more than 5 years, is a huge risk. They are just way more likely to get hurt, and if it's the shoulder, or the arm, then they are more likely to not return to their previous form. We'll see.

Yeah, I think Johan is about the best choice to risk a big contract on. He doesn't throw the type of pitches that are high risk to injury. Of course, any pitcher can get hurt, but if I would have to risk the money on someone he's the guy. (plus he's a well spoken, good looking guy, which will only help bring the money back for NY :) )

[Jobronie]

Rosenthal: The terms of the Johan Santana contract are more favorable to the Mets than what was originally reported.

The contract is for six years, including 2008, according to a copy of the deal obtained by FOXSports.com. It is not a six-year extension on top of the one year left on his previous deal. Santana will receive an increase from $13.25 million to $19 million this season under the new terms.

Also, the present-day value of the deal is $123.1 million, not $137.5 million, according to the players' union. The Mets will defer $5 million per season with 1.25 percent compounded interest, making the deal less expensive in current dollars.

Santana's contract, then, is not as dramatic a leap from Carlos Zambrano's deal with the Cubs as it initially appeared. Under the revised calculation, Santana's average salary drops from $22.9 million to $20.5 million. Zambrano's present-day average, according to the union, is $18.6 million — a higher number than indicated by his five-year, $91.5 million contract because he received a $5 million signing bonus, and upfront money is more valuable than deferred.

Santana also has a $25 million club option for 2014 that will become a player option if any of the following occurs:



He wins the Cy Young Award in any season from 2008 to '13 and finishes second or third in any other year;

He finishes second or third in the Cy Young voting in any three of the six years during his deal;

He pitches 215 innings in 2013 and is on the active roster (not including disabled list) throughout the final 30 days of that season.

He pitches 420 innings combined in 2012 and '13 and is on the active roster throughout the final 30 days of the final season.

He pitches 630 innings combined in 2011, '12 and '13 and is on the active roster throughout the final 30 days of the final season.

[raven56706]

when will they introduce him already and have the press conference?

[pedagogue]

Ok...his contract seems a bit more palatable....good deal Mets!

[Fandango]

The press conference was today at 1pm.

[matta]

Ok...his contract seems a bit more palatable....good deal Mets!

I thought it was a good deal before. This just makes it better. I can't believe the deal the Mets got on this one.


Go Mets!

[pedagogue]

I thought it was a good deal before. This just makes it better. I can't believe the deal the Mets got on this one.


Go Mets!

Based on the revenue he'll bring in (and additional wins), he'll be WELL worth it.

[matta]

Based on the revenue he'll bring in (and additional wins), he'll be WELL worth it.

I can't wait for the Championships. Go Mets!

[Jobronie]

Hot off the presses:

http://mod.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-4504345reg.jpg

[mgbfan]

Man that's depressing.

[matta]

Hot off the presses:

http://mod.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-4504345reg.jpg

-ohbfrank-

They shouldn't even make these replica Santana jerseys.

Go Mets!

[VinVega]

matta is now a Mets fan? I want off this ride.

[LurkerDan]

matta is now a Mets fan? I want off this ride.
he's just feigning it in hopes of getting a chance at David Wright's autograph.

[Qui Gon Jim]

Now it sounds like Shilling is lost for the year. If he knew, but kept it quiet he's a real tool. With him out there is a hole in the rotation that Santana would have more than filled.

[Deftones]

matta is now a Mets fan? I want off this ride.

He's just upset his team blows and isn't likely to compete in the division since Philly and NYM are so good.

[VinVega]

Now it sounds like Shilling is lost for the year. If he knew, but kept it quiet he's a real tool. With him out there is a hole in the rotation that Santana would have more than filled.
Yeah, but now with the Yanks and the Sox starting a bunch of kids, it could be a fun and interesting race. Hughes and Kennedy vs. Lester and Bucholtz. Both of the payroll teams going youth. It's good for baseball.

[Qui Gon Jim]

Absolutely true. But Boston may have been more hardcore about getting Santana without Shilling in their pocket.

[Fandango]

Well if they are so high on Lester now's the time to see if they were right about him.

[matta]

Nah, I think the Braves have a real shot this year, depending on injuries. I just happen to enjoy now rooting for a team that isn't so friggen salary limited that any good player with some potential has to be traded away and any player the Mets/Yankees/BoSox/Angels want is a impossible to get.

Go Amazin' Mets! David Wright is my hero! Jose Reyes is the best SS in the NL! Maine is the real deal! I would have man-sex with Santana!


He's just upset his team blows and isn't likely to compete in the division since Philly and NYM are so good.

:lol: like you're one to talk with that sorry ass bunch they have out in Arizona now.


Oh, wait...

:sad:

Hold me David wright

[Goat3001]

Yeah, but now with the Yanks and the Sox starting a bunch of kids, it could be a fun and interesting race. Hughes and Kennedy vs. Lester and Bucholtz. Both of the payroll teams going youth. It's good for baseball.

Agreed on all points. Except don't be surprised if the Yankees start Moose (in the 5 spot) over Kennedy when the season starts. May not be the best idea but IMO, Moose is still capable of starting. He just needs a breather every so often and Kennedy would fit in well there.

Either way, Beckett, Dice, Lester, Bucholz and Wakefield vs. Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Joba and Moose/Kennedy will make for a lot of interesting match ups next season. Also, if these young kids don't work out so well right away it leaves the door open for a coup if the Blue Jays can get their act together. Should be a fun season.

[Dave7393]

Some sweetness for Mets fans.....

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2008-02/35308730.jpg
:banana:
http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2008-02/35308729.jpg
:banana:
http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2008-02/35307838.jpg

Now if only the Mets could come up with a deal to bring back Kazmir. :sad:

[starman9000]

Those pictures make me sad :(

[matta]

It looks like he's favoring his throwing arm in that last picture. Uh, oh...

[B.A.]

Those pictures make me sad :(Fucking Pond Scum.

[Jobronie]

Hardball Times chimes in:
Overall, we project that Santana will go 15-8 with a 2.83 ERA and 223 strikeouts in 204 innings for the Mets. No other National League starter projects for a sub-3.00 ERA, and since Santana likely will be seen as the player who put the Mets over the top, his path to the Cy Young award should be pretty clear.

[Jobronie]

He was in one of his chatty moods. I would have loved to ask follow ups to some of the stuff we discussed (the Mets doctor who examined Schill; more of what was discussed with Theo below), but it's bad form to push a subject when one of your sons is at the FT line (our sons are both forwards, and we were laughing that both decided they had had enough of their PG throwing the ball away, so both started pushing the ball up themselves after rebounds). It's obvious from talking to him, he isn't follow much of the stuff that makes the papers. Nothing exciting/revealing, but just first hand confirmation on some stuff that was in the papers:

if the Mets had gotten DiceK, they "definitely" would have still pushed just as hard as they did for Johan (the AAV is the major issue, the posting fee was the cost of doing business and was pretty much an afterthought for the Mets); he feels with DiceK, the mets would have made the WS;

BOS and Mets felt there were HUGE signability issues with Johan all along, both felt that even if a trade was made, not signing him was a definite anticipated possibility;

in the 72 hour window, Mets were never at all sure they could extend Johan until the ink was dry;

Ellsbury offer and Lester offer were both legit offers; Ellsbury AND Lester were never on the table together, and never would have been; Hughes and Melky was on the table; he had never heard the rumors that Minn was unimpressed with Melky as their CF;

Pettitte re-signing changed the entire landscape; NYY lowered their offer at that point and pretty much dropped out; that allowed BOS to lower their offer as well; at that point, BOS began doing all that it could to get Johan to Shea;

Theo was in contact with Omar right up until the trade was made, and was offering the Mets any advice he could, just to keep Johan away from the NYY (Theo's words). I get the impression that the two are a LOT friendlier than they used to be.

[chrisih8u]

Good stuff. :up:

[Goat3001]

Hardball Times chimes in:

A 2.83 ERA and 15 wins? Mets had two pitchers last year win 15 wins and ERA's north of 3.50. With a 2.83, and considering he can pitch deep into games, I can see Santana winning 18-20 games.

[Rogue588]

Theo was in contact with Omar right up until the trade was made, and was offering the Mets any advice he could, just to keep Johan away from the NYY (Theo's words).:lol:

Glad to see that even though we haven't won a WS since 2000, haven't been in a WS since 2004 and have a pitching staff made up mostly of kids that have only been able to drink legally for about a year or so, Theo still considers us a threat.

[raven56706]

:lol:

Glad to see that even though we haven't won a WS since 2000, haven't been in a WS since 2004 and have a pitching staff made up mostly of kids that have only been able to drink legally for about a year or so, Theo still considers us a threat.


rotfl... so true

[starman9000]

:lol:

Glad to see that even though we haven't won a WS since 2000, haven't been in a WS since 2004 and have a pitching staff made up mostly of kids that have only been able to drink legally for about a year or so, Theo still considers us a threat.


Sounds to me like he was trying to make sure you don't become a serious threat, so he helped make sure your pitching staff is still made up of mostly kids.

[LurkerDan]

:lol:

Glad to see that even though we haven't won a WS since 2000, haven't been in a WS since 2004 and have a pitching staff made up mostly of kids that have only been able to drink legally for about a year or so, Theo still considers us a threat.
Wow, the Red Sox consider the Yankees a threat? Especially if they get Santana? What a news flash! In other news, the world is round.

If this is what Yankees fans need for validation... :up:

[matta]

In other news, the world is round.

Actually, I believe in Flat Earth Theory.

[Dave7393]

A 2.83 ERA and 15 wins? Mets had two pitchers last year win 15 wins and ERA's north of 3.50. With a 2.83, and considering he can pitch deep into games, I can see Santana winning 18-20 games.

I was thinking the same thing about that projected W-L total. I'd sure hope that Johan can win more games then either Maine or Perez won in '07.

Then again, the Mets have been known to give Pedro shit run support, having him go 6 or 7 innings, giving up a run or so, and him getting a ND or a loss. Sometimes an ace on the hill makes the bats go a little soft, but I think Johan can certainly pitch to more than 15 wins (and that report predicts about a dozen NDs, based on his projected W-L and games started? No way).

[pedagogue]

Anyone in their Top 4 has the talent to win 14-15. I think santana get 18-19 this year, Maine with 14-15, and the Pedro like 12ish (time off bc he won't pitch a full season), and then Ollie is the wildcard. I think he can get 13-14...and the leave as a FA for his $15m/yr. :(

[Dave7393]

Anyone in their Top 4 has the talent to win 14-15. I think santana get 18-19 this year, Maine with 14-15, and the Pedro like 12ish (time off bc he won't pitch a full season), and then Ollie is the wildcard. I think he can get 13-14...and the leave as a FA for his $15m/yr. :(


I think Johan is looking at about 17-7 (+/- 1 on each), 200+ IP, 1+ K/IP, ERA around 2.60. I think Pedro's more of a wildcard than Perez, since Pedro is so much more prone to so many more potential (present and future) ailments.

I like Pedro on the mound, I like his energy in the dugout, and I like his presence on the team, but he's so fragile that I don't know what to expect. They didn't start calling him The Dominican Diva for nothing.

[pedagogue]

I think Johan is looking at about 17-7 (+/- 1 on each), 200+ IP, 1+ K/IP, ERA around 2.60. I think Pedro's more of a wildcard than Perez, since Pedro is so much more prone to so many more potential (present and future) ailments.

I like Pedro on the mound, I like his energy in the dugout, and I like his presence on the team, but he's so fragile that I don't know what to expect. They didn't start calling him The Dominican Diva for nothing.
:lol:

I agree with you about Pedro. I'm hoping he can get through just a bit nicked up.

[dieinafire]

:lol:

Glad to see that even though we haven't won a WS since 2000, haven't been in a WS since 2004 and have a pitching staff made up mostly of kids that have only been able to drink legally for about a year or so, Theo still considers us a threat.

Hate to nitpick, but it was 2003, 2004 was the Sox.

[Rogue588]

Hate to nitpick, but it was 2003, 2004 was the Sox.D'oh! You're right. In my defense, it was 6am and I hadn't been to bed yet AND most meetings between these two teams are better than a WS could ever be..

Guess I invalidated my validation..

[Dave7393]

I just found this online survey on Newsday.com. The results are pretty much what I expected. One thing I noticed is that it looks like more than 90% are expecting him to get more than 15 wins ('07 totals for Maine and Perez).

I don't know who those 99 dipshits are that are making up that bottom 2.1%. :wtf:

How many wins do you think Johan Santana will have for the Mets this year?

More than 22 (461 responses) 9.7%

20-22 (1675 responses) 35.3%

16-19 (2190 responses) 46.1%

13-15 (258 responses) 5.4%

10-12 (66 responses) 1.4%

Fewer than 10 (99 responses) 2.1%

4749 total responses (Results not scientific)

Edit: Get out the vote! (http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-mets-poll,0,4553492,post.poll) :banana:

[Qui Gon Jim]

I just found this online survey on Newsday.com. The results are pretty much what I expected. One thing I noticed is that it looks like more than 90% are expecting him to get more than 15 wins ('07 totals for Maine and Perez).

I don't know who those 99 dipshits are that are making up that bottom 2.1%. :wtf:

How many wins do you think Johan Santana will have for the Mets this year?

More than 22 (461 responses) 9.7%

20-22 (1675 responses) 35.3%

16-19 (2190 responses) 46.1%

13-15 (258 responses) 5.4%

10-12 (66 responses) 1.4%

Fewer than 10 (99 responses) 2.1%

4749 total responses (Results not scientific)

Edit: Get out the vote! (http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-mets-poll,0,4553492,post.poll) :banana:

Or the 461 predicting more than 22 wins. Insanity! I'd say he'll get 18 or 19. He is basically a lock for the Cy and he hasn't even reported yet. LOL. Gotta love the NL.

[Jobronie]

I wonder if they'll follow the Red Sox lead, and rest him in August if they build up a big enough lead (no snarky 'big lead' remarks, BTW).

For that matter, I wonder if CLE will do it. They're the ones who really paid that cost last season........

[starman9000]

I don't think CLE will be in a position where they can afford to do it. But, you never know. Johan has shown himself to be pretty durable, so I don't think they would (unless last years 2nd half was the start of a new trend for him).

[cardsfan111]

I don't know who those 99 dipshits are that are making up that bottom 2.1%. :wtf:

How many wins do you think Johan Santana will have for the Mets this year?

More than 22 (461 responses) 9.7%

20-22 (1675 responses) 35.3%

16-19 (2190 responses) 46.1%

13-15 (258 responses) 5.4%

10-12 (66 responses) 1.4%

Fewer than 10 (99 responses) 2.1%

4749 total responses (Results not scientific)


I didn't vote, but I would think the 2.1% are speculating on some kind of injury that would limit the number of starts Santana would make.

[matta]

I didn't vote, but I would think the 2.1% are speculating on some kind of injury that would limit the number of starts Santana would make.

Yup. The message boards online are full of "scouting reports" that talk about how his delivery is "too violent" when throwing his slider and that he's due for a major "blow out" in the near future, which is why he didnt throw many sliders in the last half of last season.

Then there's the Braves' boards that compare Santana's deal with the Mets to Hampton's deal with Colorado:

I actually posted this when the trade first happened before they negotiated the deal, and I looked at the stats for Hampton and Santana and they're eerily similar. Hampton had pitched 215+ innings in 5 out of 7 seasons before he was signed by the Rockies, Santana has posted 220+ in 4 out of the 5 previous seasons. He had similar winning percentages to Santana, although his ERA wasn't as low. Santana in 06 posted a dominant season similar to Hamptons 22 win season with the Mets. The following year Hampton was 15-13 with the Rockies. It's kind of scarry because Santana was also 15-13 last season.

At that time, Hampton was 28, and Santana currently is 28 going on 29. Hampton looked like he was going to be fine, but ran into trouble in Colorado the following year, and never was the same pitcher.



Bunch of junk, if you ask me, but it makes someone feel good to believe it.

[Dave7393]

...similar to Hamptons 22 win season with the Mets.

So what year was that again, when Mike Hampton won 22 games in a season for the Mets? -screwy-

The following year Hampton was 15-13 with the Rockies.

No, following his only 22 win season with Houston he won 15 games for the Mets. He hasn't won 15 games in a season since-- for Colorado or anyone else

Getting basic facts straight would be nice.

[matta]

You know, reading more of the MLB message boards about Santana, it's at the point now where Braves fans are calling him junk and injury prone, and Mets fans are trolling every thread talking about how the Braves suck and would love to have Santana.

Honestly, I don't think the Braves would want Santana. Sure, a Santana-like pitcher would be awesome, but for $22 million a year (assuming there's no huge increase in salary level) the Braves would have to give up too much offensively. When you compare the VORP (not the actual VORP, but a qualitative comparison) of Santana in the Braves pitching staff next year vs. the VORP of Teixeira at 1B, there's a huge advantage in keeping the offensive player.

Now, if the Braves don't resign Teixeira, they'll have about $32 million to spend next year on a pitcher, 1B, and reliever (to replace Soriano, don't necessarily need a closer because of Gonzalez). Santana could have fit in that scenario, but for now, I think the game plan is to focus on getting Teixeira back then focus on a decent #2 or #3 pitcher in the off season.

[matta]

So what year was that again, when Mike Hampton won 22 games in a season for the Mets? -screwy-



No, following his only 22 win season with Houston he won 15 games for the Mets. He hasn't won 15 games in a season since-- for Colorado or anyone else

Getting basic facts straight would be nice.

Well, considering that the poster was likely 12, I think he did a pretty decent job by only confusing 1 stat.

[Dave7393]

Well, considering that the poster was likely 12, I think he did a pretty decent job by only confusing 1 stat.

That "1 stat" is the crux of his whole arguement: Hampton wins 22 with the Mets (incorrect), then his win total drops to 15 (also incorrect) when he signs his big contract a year later. Never happened. If anything, his 22 win season was a fluke, and it happened before he was ever with the Mets, and two years before he signed his big contract.

He writes pretty well for a 12 year old. :)

[LurkerDan]

That "1 stat" is the crux of his whole arguement: Hampton wins 22 with the Mets (incorrect), then his win total drops to 15 (also incorrect) when he signs his big contract a year later. Never happened. If anything, his 22 win season was a fluke, and it happened before he was ever with the Mets, and two years before he signed his big contract.

He writes pretty well for a 12 year old. :)
But the similarities are still uncanny. After all, Johan Santana had 2 Cy Youngs when he signed his contract, and Mike Hampton had... oh, wait, my bad.

[matta]

But the similarities are still uncanny. After all, Johan Santana had 2 Cy Youngs when he signed his contract, and Mike Hampton had... oh, wait, my bad.

:lol: I wonder if the argument is more 1) trying to feel better about the Santana trade or 2) trying to feel better about the Hampton trade.

[zekeburger1979]

Being an Indians fan, I don't like the Santana trade on the basis that it jacks up the amount of money that C.C. Sabathia will command next off-season, assuming that C.C. and the Indians don't reach a deal before the season starts.

[Fandango]

Hampton went from a pitcher's park to a hitter's park while Santana is doing the opposite.

[Dave7393]

Hampton went from a pitcher's park to a hitter's park while Santana is doing the opposite.

I also heard that the public school system was better in Colorado. :sarcasm:

[matta]

Hampton went from a pitcher's park to a hitter's park while Santana is doing the opposite.

I don't care if he's pitching in a national park, Hampton isn't any good anymore. Based on what I've heard from a buddy who's a sports medicine doctor, it sounds like steroids (he didn't say he knew Hampton used steroids, just that "the injuries are very consistant with under developed ligament blah blah blah that is often caused by steroid use").

[Jobronie]

I also heard that the public school system was better in Colorado. :sarcasm:Oh, I remember that one now.

A few guys have since used the "better school systems" line.....

[Fandango]

matta you should be worried more about who is going to get you wins besides Smoltz and Hudson.

[matta]

matta you should be worried more about who is going to get you wins besides Smoltz and Hudson.

Where did that come from? I'm actually arguing AGAINST the Braves fans in this thread.

[TheGodfather]

Or the 461 predicting more than 22 wins. Insanity! I'd say he'll get 18 or 19. He is basically a lock for the Cy and he hasn't even reported yet. LOL. Gotta love the NL.
Couple of guys by the names of Peavy, Webb, Hamels and Oswalt might disagree but I'll take a Cy Young year.

[TheGodfather]

Well, considering that the poster was likely 12, I think he did a pretty decent job by only confusing 1 stat.
Kerborous is 12?!?!?!



Just kiddin' Kerb. See ya soon in the Mets March thread.

My prediction for Johan's stat line reads:

18-9, 2.98 ERA, 220 K's