Mothers On Sitcoms - Are They Off Limits?
#1
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thread Starter
Mothers On Sitcoms - Are They Off Limits?
As a guy watching television for over 45 years, I have noticed a pattern in sitcoms and I am sure many of you have noticed it as well.
Women with young children are still usually considered off limits as the target of humor. This also applies to children, but not to the elderly. My guess is that our instincts (both men and women) are to protect women of child bearing years (and children) and sub-consciously we find any derogatory humor towards them distasteful. Or maybe its the implication that if they are bumbling then maybe they are bad primary care givers.
On Home Improvement the writers attempted to make Jill (Tim's Wife) the target of the humor. The resulting complaint letters (mostly from women) forced them to only allow the men to be the brunt of the deprecating humor. Sure they can supply the humor as an insult to someone else (Tim), but usually not be the target. Sorry, I don't have the source, but even if you discount this paragraph the list of shows is rather large.
A couple exceptions that come to mind immediately are Rosanne and I Love Lucy.
Some examples:
Everybody Loves Raymond
Family Matters
Full House
Family Ties
Leave It To Beaver
According To Jim
Dick Van Dyke
Newhart (all incarnations)
Brady Bunch
Family Guy
The Simpsons
What's Happening
Who's the Boss?
The Donna Reed Show
Father Knows Best (no he doesn't)
The Partridge Family
Dennis the Menace
Married With Children
I know it is a controversial point, and certainly not a rule. But there is overwhelming evidences to support the point.
Women with young children are still usually considered off limits as the target of humor. This also applies to children, but not to the elderly. My guess is that our instincts (both men and women) are to protect women of child bearing years (and children) and sub-consciously we find any derogatory humor towards them distasteful. Or maybe its the implication that if they are bumbling then maybe they are bad primary care givers.
On Home Improvement the writers attempted to make Jill (Tim's Wife) the target of the humor. The resulting complaint letters (mostly from women) forced them to only allow the men to be the brunt of the deprecating humor. Sure they can supply the humor as an insult to someone else (Tim), but usually not be the target. Sorry, I don't have the source, but even if you discount this paragraph the list of shows is rather large.
A couple exceptions that come to mind immediately are Rosanne and I Love Lucy.
Some examples:
Everybody Loves Raymond
Family Matters
Full House
Family Ties
Leave It To Beaver
According To Jim
Dick Van Dyke
Newhart (all incarnations)
Brady Bunch
Family Guy
The Simpsons
What's Happening
Who's the Boss?
The Donna Reed Show
Father Knows Best (no he doesn't)
The Partridge Family
Dennis the Menace
Married With Children
I know it is a controversial point, and certainly not a rule. But there is overwhelming evidences to support the point.
#2
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Not entirely sure what you mean. You're point is very broad. But I can think of a few where the funny was at the mom's expense:
Sex and the City (Miranda)
Absolutely Fabulous (Saffy)
Scrubs (Jordan & Carla)
That's off the top of my head, but I'm certain those defy what I believe is your point.
Sex and the City (Miranda)
Absolutely Fabulous (Saffy)
Scrubs (Jordan & Carla)
That's off the top of my head, but I'm certain those defy what I believe is your point.
#7
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by Patman
How about that Louis CK show, recently canned after a 10+ episode run on Showtime (I think)?
Last edited by rfduncan; 12-11-07 at 10:22 AM.
#8
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by Ayre
Some examples:
According To Jim
According To Jim
Originally Posted by Ayre
Full House
Newhart (all incarnations)
Newhart (all incarnations)
das
Last edited by das Monkey; 12-11-07 at 11:03 AM.
#9
Moderator
I'm writing down the username of anybody who's waxing eloquent about According to Jim so I can use your post against you next time you lament the cancellation of a good show.
#12
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thread Starter
Ok, I will remove Newhart(not sure what I was thinking) and add:
"Grounded for Life"
Keep in mind ... there are exceptions. And I'm not talking individual episodes as much as the over all character behavior.
Just curious if anyone else has noticed the pattern.
"Grounded for Life"
Keep in mind ... there are exceptions. And I'm not talking individual episodes as much as the over all character behavior.
Just curious if anyone else has noticed the pattern.
#13
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by Groucho
Oh, I'm sure it's better than Torchwood and I've sat through season one of that twice already.
Spoiler:
das
#15
DVD Talk Hero
I don't think it's necessarily a formula to avoid making fun of women with young children, though I can definitely see the complaint. It's just that the common "family" sitcom has:
bumbling, oafish dad
mother usually younger, better looking, and the more responsible parent
teenage kids that are 100x smarter than either parent
bumbling, oafish dad
mother usually younger, better looking, and the more responsible parent
teenage kids that are 100x smarter than either parent
#17
Moderator
Originally Posted by Groucho
King of the Hill. Peggy has always been less stable/intelligent/anything than Hank.
#19
DVD Talk Limited Edition
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Originally Posted by Goldberg74
In Reba, Cheyenne was the butt of many a joke.
I don't think it's an absolute, but I'd have to agree with the OP to the extent that you can list far more shows that treat the mother with kid gloves than you can shows that go after her.
ETA: My casual viewing does seem to have betrayed me. Cheyenne is one of Reba's kids, right? In that case, I'd suggest that she is an acceptable target because she got pregnant at an earlier than socially acceptable age. That makes going after her okay.
Last edited by Jimmy James; 12-11-07 at 04:39 PM.
#20
Doris Roberts on Everybody Loves Raymond was the second biggest target for jokes behind Brad Garrett.
I also seem to recall that the heavyset mother on Yes, Dear was always referenced as being a drunk and a slut.
I also seem to recall that the heavyset mother on Yes, Dear was always referenced as being a drunk and a slut.
#21
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Originally Posted by Boba Fett
Doris Roberts on Everybody Loves Raymond was the second biggest target for jokes behind Brad Garrett.
I also seem to recall that the heavyset mother on Yes, Dear was always referenced as being a drunk and a slut.
I also seem to recall that the heavyset mother on Yes, Dear was always referenced as being a drunk and a slut.
Yes, Dear falls into the same pattern many shows that make a mother a target use. She is somehow inferior to her uptight sister, which makes her a target of ridicule. I'd say the limited amount of times they took shots at her uptight sister would serve as a better example of that show departing from the norm.
#22
DVD Talk Hero
But it was her motherly qualities, her passive-aggressive over-involvement in the lives of her adult children, that were the constant target for humor. Her character traits would have been the same whether Ray and Debra had children or not.
das
das
#23
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thread Starter
This is about mothers of young children. Adults can take care of themselves. Children are considered vulnerable and a bumbling incompetent mother is unacceptable. A bumbling inept father is considered the normal for sitcoms.
On Yes, Dear the party mom only did so after they made it clear that the kids would stay with super mom. They emphasized that party mom was really a great mom and that both fathers were inept morons.
On Yes, Dear the party mom only did so after they made it clear that the kids would stay with super mom. They emphasized that party mom was really a great mom and that both fathers were inept morons.
#24
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by das Monkey
But it was her motherly qualities, her passive-aggressive over-involvement in the lives of her adult children, that were the constant target for humor. Her character traits would have been the same whether Ray and Debra had children or not.
das
das
#25
One thing that's definitely off limits for mothers on sitcoms is violence. There's been many shows that have the father getting hurt but never the mother. I think that's one thing we'll never see on a sitcom (Unless you count family guy)