I've been using the online simulator to learn basic blackjack strategy. I'm not looking to shock the world, only play decently and walk away from the table with 40-70% of what I sat down with.
Here's what I've discerned. Please feel free to critique or add (ignore the formatting please).
Rule 1 ALWAYS take a HIT if your cards total 9 or less
Rule 2 ALWAYS HIT if holding a Soft 17 or lower
Rule 3 ALWAYS STAND if your first two cards total 17 or more
Rule 4 ALWAYS STAND if holding a Soft 19 (Ace with an 8)
Rule 5 If your card total is 12 through 16, HIT ONLY if the dealer is showing a 7 or higher. If the dealer's upcard is less than 7, STAND, unless your card total is 12 and the dealer is showing a 2 or 3, then HIT.
Rule 6 DOUBLE DOWN your bet if your cards total 9, 10 or 11, AND the dealer's upcard is 10 or less. If the dealer's upcard is an ace, hit WITHOUT doubling down
Rule 7 If your cards total a Soft 13 through a Soft 19 (an Ace with a 2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8), DOUBLE DOWN if the dealer shows an upcard of 6 or less
Rule 8 ALWAYS SPLIT a pair of 8's, 9's and Aces, but NEVER split a pair of 4's, 5's and 10's
Rule 9 SPLIT all other pairs ONLY when the dealer is showing 6 or less
Rule 10 DO NOT take insurance, EVER
SoSpacey
11-27-07, 03:37 PM
I've been using the online simulator to learn basic blackjack strategy. I'm not looking to shock the world, only play decently and walk away from the table with 40-70% of what I sat down with.
Here's what I've discerned. Please feel free to critique or add (ignore the formatting please).
Rule 1 ALWAYS take a HIT if your cards total 9 or less
Rule 2 ALWAYS HIT if holding a Soft 17 or lower
Rule 3 ALWAYS STAND if your first two cards total 17 or more
Rule 4 ALWAYS STAND if holding a Soft 19 (Ace with an 8)
Rule 5 If your card total is 12 through 16, HIT ONLY if the dealer is showing a 7 or higher. If the dealer's upcard is less than 7, STAND, unless your card total is 12 and the dealer is showing a 2 or 3, then HIT. Some players I know stay with a 16 if the dealer is showing a 7
Rule 6 DOUBLE DOWN your bet if your cards total 9, 10 or 11, AND the dealer's upcard is 10 or less. If the dealer's upcard is an ace, hit WITHOUT doubling down i use a slight variation of this. if my card is a 9, and the dealer is showing a 10, why would i double? best i have is 19 w/10 or 20 w/A. i love doubling v. a 7 up. I also love doubling 10/11 v. dealer A after he checks for BJ
Rule 7 If your cards total a Soft 13 through a Soft 19 (an Ace with a 2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8), DOUBLE DOWN if the dealer shows an upcard of 6 or less
Rule 8 ALWAYS SPLIT a pair of 8's, 9's and Aces, but NEVER split a pair of 4's, 5's and 10's
Rule 9 SPLIT all other pairs ONLY when the dealer is showing 6 or less
That's really not of any use to me. I'm asking for people's experiences and personal strategies. But thanks though :)
namja
11-27-07, 05:31 PM
Rule 6 DOUBLE DOWN your bet if your cards total 9, 10 or 11, AND the dealer's upcard is 10 or less. If the dealer's upcard is an ace, hit WITHOUT doubling down
Now, that's just crazy talk. I would never double down a 9 (or a 10) against a dealer's 10.
DVD Josh
11-27-07, 05:35 PM
Now, that's just crazy talk. I would never double down a 9 (or a 10) against a dealer's 10.
That's actually one of the more common strategies I've seen, actually. With the simulator, it usually works out pretty well because of the chances of a dealer bust.
Not only that, but the last time I did it at the tables, I was 5/6 on that one.
namja
11-27-07, 07:50 PM
Not only that, but the last time I did it at the tables, I was 5/6 on that one.
I saw a guy hit a hard 17 and get 21. He said that he improved his hand 90% of the time by hitting hard 17 that day. That doesn't mean that he should keep doing it.
By strategy, I thought you meant to maximize the probability of winning. In which case, you really should play by the book (see jdodd's link) and count cards.
DVD Josh
11-27-07, 10:54 PM
I saw a guy hit a hard 17 and get 21. He said that he improved his hand 90% of the time by hitting hard 17 that day. That doesn't mean that he should keep doing it.
By strategy, I thought you meant to maximize the probability of winning. In which case, you really should play by the book (see jdodd's link) and count cards.
I absolutely do. I have no idea whether you are right or not. I'm only saying that that is an pretty common strategy pointer that I've come across online.
Counting cards is pretty much out of the question with eight deck.
El Scorcho
11-28-07, 03:48 AM
This thread can be closed. The basic strategy guide for Multiple deck, hit on soft 17 (which most USA casinos use) has been posted. You're looking for other variations that people use that are against the book and therefore, have a negative expected value.
I'm not sure why on earth you're doing this. Mathematics does not lie.
Not only that, but the last time I did it at the tables, I was 5/6 on that one.
In the short-term, anything can happen. You asked for strategies for the long-term and here they are.
Please don't be stubborn and think that any variation from the mathematically proven basic strategy table will result in a long-term positive expected value.
Read the table and learn it. Practice it. But for christ's sake, don't ever deviate from it if you want to minimize the house edge.
Deftones
11-28-07, 02:36 PM
/ thread
namja
11-28-07, 06:35 PM
Counting cards is pretty much out of the question with eight deck.
Really? Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting
Just a little update: I spent time reviewing and learning the basic strategy chart and stuck to my above rules for the most part. Did pretty well at the tables. They had something called Hi-Tie BJ that allowed you to make a bonus bet in addition to your table bet. I hit THREE BJs in a row, one of which was a suited BJ (that was like 10 or 15 times your bet!) and pretty much raked it in with the 3:2 payoff plus 3x bet for BJ bonus. Started with $100 left with over $300 in about 90 minutes of play.
El Scorcho
12-03-07, 03:08 PM
Congrats on playing -EV strategy and sucker bets and coming out ahead. Be sure to post when the downside of variance hits you!
DVD Josh
12-03-07, 03:24 PM
Congrats on playing -EV strategy and sucker bets and coming out ahead. Be sure to post when the downside of variance hits you!
:lol:
Well, the bonus bet is no doubt a sucker's bet. I probably fell into some peer pressure since everyone at every table I was at was playing it as well. I figure at $20 a hand, a $5 bonus bet that paid off a few times an hour was a pretty decent bet. In fact, I did not play any table game that featured a bonus bet of some kind that the whole table that did not have everyone sitting there play it.
I'm also not certain what you mean by -EV strategy when I played the chart. I made probably two moves off the chart.
BJ is the ONLY game I have any luck with. I could play the pass line 20 times in a row in craps and lose 20 times in a row. I could bet red in roulette 10 times in a row and lose.
El Scorcho
12-03-07, 03:55 PM
:lol:
Well, the bonus bet is no doubt a sucker's bet. I probably fell into some peer pressure since everyone at every table I was at was playing it as well. I figure at $20 a hand, a $5 bonus bet that paid off a few times an hour was a pretty decent bet. In fact, I did not play any table game that featured a bonus bet of some kind that the whole table that did not have everyone sitting there play it.
Here's a little lesson -- most gamblers you will come across are fucking retarded. The only bonus bet that I willingly play that I know is complete garbage is the $1 bet on Let It Ride and that's only because it has a massive $20,000 payoff that would make me throw-up if I hit without a bonus bet. To me knowing that this is impossible is worth sacrificing the -$0.25 EV per hand. But playing sucker "bonus" bets when the payoff is inconsequential is something I'll never do.
I'm also not certain what you mean by -EV strategy when I played the chart. I made probably two moves off the chart.
You didn't play the chart. You said you played "your rules". Your rules isn't chart, unless you lied to us in post 1. :)
BJ is the ONLY game I have any luck with. I could play the pass line 20 times in a row in craps and lose 20 times in a row. I could bet red in roulette 10 times in a row and lose.
Luck doesn't exist. Statistical variance, on the other hand, does!
DVD Josh
12-03-07, 04:11 PM
Here's a little lesson -- most gamblers you will come across are fucking retarded. The only bonus bet that I willingly play that I know is complete garbage is the $1 bet on Let It Ride and that's only because it has a massive $20,000 payoff that would make me throw-up if I hit without a bonus bet. To me knowing that this is impossible is worth sacrificing the -$0.25 EV per hand. But playing sucker "bonus" bets when the payoff is inconsequential is something I'll never do.
I also play $1 bonus bet on Let it Ride. You are right, I'd feel sick hitting a RF and missing out on $10k.
You didn't play the chart. You said you played "your rules". Your rules isn't chart, unless you lied to us in post 1. :)
:lol: No, after getting all the gruff from you guys, I decided just to sit with the chart. When I said my rules, there are some DD and split rules from the standard chart that I just don't agree with.
Luck doesn't exist. Statistical variance, on the other hand, does!
Tell that to the craps dealers!!
El Scorcho
12-03-07, 04:34 PM
When I said my rules, there are some DD and split rules from the standard chart that I just don't agree with.
There are many situations on that chart that are very borderline and are a very very minor -EV mistake when varying from it.
For instance, doubling with 10 versus Dealer 10 results in a EV of -0.8% while merely hitting results in +2.5%. The difference is only 3.3 cents per dollar bet. However, some people love the rush and high variance so they'll double and hope for a bigger score.
There are similar marginal situations where varying from the textbook strategy will cost you EV but will lower the variance (and thus, your "risk of ruin"). Often times, for many of us (or all of us here) that play blackjack, the most important thing is the chips in front of you and reducing the chance of them disappearing at the cost of a few pennies of EV.
At any rate, you want something funky? This is the blackjack I played in Macau (China) at the Venetian two weeks ago:
As of early August 2007 the only Sands property in Macau is the Sands itself. On August 28 the Sands will open its second property, the Venetian, on the Cotai side.
The Sands blackjack rules are as follows.
* 5 decks.
* Dealer stands on soft 17.
* Player may double on any first two cards.
* Dealer does not take a hole card. If dealer has blackjack player will lose entire bet, including additional wagers for doubling and splitting.
* Double after a split allowed.
* Player may surrender on any initial two cards, except against a dealer ace. This is equivalent to "early surrender" against a 10, because the player may invoke it before the dealer checks for blackjack.
* Resplitting aces not allowed.
* Continuous shuffler.
The house edge under these rules is 0.26%. Following is the basic strategy under these rules.
I don't know if I have the stones to split a soft 18!
namja
12-03-07, 05:02 PM
I don't know if I have the stones to split a soft 18!
How do you split a soft 18? :hscratch:
El Scorcho
12-03-07, 05:17 PM
By the way, I did get dealt AA vs A there and knew instinctively that the correct move was to hit and not split. It's the only time I've never split aces at a table.
DVD Josh
12-03-07, 05:40 PM
How do you split a soft 18? :hscratch:
See Scortcho's chart. House rules allow splitting of any cards.
El Scorcho
12-03-07, 05:58 PM
Just for shits and giggles, here's the comparison chart between strategy in Macau and in Vegas.
http://i5.tinypic.com/852pjtl.jpg
El Scorcho
12-03-07, 05:59 PM
See Scortcho's chart. House rules allow splitting of any cards.
No, it allows doubling of any two cards. You can't split an ace and a 7.
DVD Josh
12-03-07, 06:00 PM
No, it allows doubling of any two cards. You can't split an ace and a 7.
Buy: