Raise the Red Lantern
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Raise the Red Lantern
First time poster here. I was happy to see the review of Raise the Red Lantern and glad for the warning that there are no extras on the disk. But here's the real reason I registered:
"Star Li Gong (billed in the west as Gong Li)"
This is somewhat backwards. She was always known as Gong Li in China -- it's just that some scattered sources in the west tried to "westernize" it with her surname last. Thankfully this practice never caught on when it came to her, although some other Asian stars haven't been so lucky. That mistake annoyed me, but I can see how it's confusing because "Li" is a much more common surname.
"Star Li Gong (billed in the west as Gong Li)"
This is somewhat backwards. She was always known as Gong Li in China -- it's just that some scattered sources in the west tried to "westernize" it with her surname last. Thankfully this practice never caught on when it came to her, although some other Asian stars haven't been so lucky. That mistake annoyed me, but I can see how it's confusing because "Li" is a much more common surname.
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I noticed that issue DVD Savant's review as well and emailed him about it. He said he is aware of the Chinese naming convention and should have stuck with "American billing mode", likely meaning how the actress (or actor) chooses to have themselves credited for their work in American distribution. Seems like a sound policy to me given the multiple names you find listed for any Chinese actor or actress on IMDB.
I'll agree that it's odd to hear a Chinese actor or actress whose name I first learned in Chinese (Mandarin) refered to in either in the "given, then family" convention or an even further "westernized" version of their name (I was fan of Chow Sing Chi long before I ever heard of "Stephen Chow")
It should be noted, though, that "westernizing" names is extremely common while in residence or working in the West, if only to avoid confusion. My girlfriend is mainland Chinese as are many of our friends as well, and they all use use the "given, then family"-configuration while they'd lived in the states, both in official documents and casual conversation. Still, when I talk to them, I use the "family, then given" style, if only since that's what's more natural for them to hear.
I'll agree that it's odd to hear a Chinese actor or actress whose name I first learned in Chinese (Mandarin) refered to in either in the "given, then family" convention or an even further "westernized" version of their name (I was fan of Chow Sing Chi long before I ever heard of "Stephen Chow")
It should be noted, though, that "westernizing" names is extremely common while in residence or working in the West, if only to avoid confusion. My girlfriend is mainland Chinese as are many of our friends as well, and they all use use the "given, then family"-configuration while they'd lived in the states, both in official documents and casual conversation. Still, when I talk to them, I use the "family, then given" style, if only since that's what's more natural for them to hear.
Last edited by Dr. Forrester; 08-22-07 at 05:27 PM.
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I think it's been Gong Li here as long as I can remember. It probably didn't change until "Miami Vice." Gong Li has a better sound to it anyway.
This DVD belongs in the DVD Talk Collectors Series. Although there may be no extras, this movie is a brilliant work of art.
This DVD belongs in the DVD Talk Collectors Series. Although there may be no extras, this movie is a brilliant work of art.
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Originally Posted by big whoppa
I think it's been Gong Li here as long as I can remember. It probably didn't change until "Miami Vice." Gong Li has a better sound to it anyway.
Q. In your interview with Bai Ling from the Hawaii festival, you wrote: "I have seen Bai Ling many times in the movies, often billed as Ling Bai. In China, the practice is to put the family name first and the given name second. So properly she should be referred to as Ling Bai, right?
"'Your theory is correct, but you have one thing wrong,' I am told by Liwei Kiumra, the China expert of the Hawaii festival. 'Ling is her first name.' Therefore, Bai Ling. Everyone who has it wrong has it right."
Congratulations, Roger! You could not have been any more confusing! What does "properly" mean in that context? Properly for the Asians or properly for us? And what does Mr. Kiumra mean when he says "first name"? Does he mean family name or given name? And while we're at it, is it Mr. Kiumra or Mr. Liwei?
Alexandre Rowe, Montreal
A. It's Ms. Liwei Kiumra, because that's what it says on her card. As for Bai Ling's name order, of course by "first," she means "given." Whenever I review an Asian movie, this question arises in exchanges with the copy editors, because if you use the accepted Asian word order, Western readers get confused; should I write "Li Gong" when everybody in the West thinks of "Gong Li"? Consulting the reviews of "Raise the Red Lantern," for example, I find that the New York Times, Washington Post and Variety use "Gong Li," and director "Zhang Yimou," but the Internet Movie Database, which always follows local usage, has "Li Gong" and "Yimou Zhang."
"'Your theory is correct, but you have one thing wrong,' I am told by Liwei Kiumra, the China expert of the Hawaii festival. 'Ling is her first name.' Therefore, Bai Ling. Everyone who has it wrong has it right."
Congratulations, Roger! You could not have been any more confusing! What does "properly" mean in that context? Properly for the Asians or properly for us? And what does Mr. Kiumra mean when he says "first name"? Does he mean family name or given name? And while we're at it, is it Mr. Kiumra or Mr. Liwei?
Alexandre Rowe, Montreal
A. It's Ms. Liwei Kiumra, because that's what it says on her card. As for Bai Ling's name order, of course by "first," she means "given." Whenever I review an Asian movie, this question arises in exchanges with the copy editors, because if you use the accepted Asian word order, Western readers get confused; should I write "Li Gong" when everybody in the West thinks of "Gong Li"? Consulting the reviews of "Raise the Red Lantern," for example, I find that the New York Times, Washington Post and Variety use "Gong Li," and director "Zhang Yimou," but the Internet Movie Database, which always follows local usage, has "Li Gong" and "Yimou Zhang."
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Originally Posted by Necrosorrow
"Star Li Gong (billed in the west as Gong Li)"
This is somewhat backwards. She was always known as Gong Li in China -- it's just that some scattered sources in the west tried to "westernize" it with her surname last.
This is somewhat backwards. She was always known as Gong Li in China -- it's just that some scattered sources in the west tried to "westernize" it with her surname last.
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The Beaver says this release looks better than the ERA one, and I'm inclined to accept that. However, the stills really don't seem to bear that out completely, and so I suspect that it depends on being able to see both transfers "in motion".
So, does anyone out there have both the MGM and ERA releases? Is MGM's better to your eyes?
So, does anyone out there have both the MGM and ERA releases? Is MGM's better to your eyes?
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Originally Posted by Richard Malloy
The Beaver says this release looks better than the ERA one, and I'm inclined to accept that. However, the stills really don't seem to bear that out completely, and so I suspect that it depends on being able to see both transfers "in motion".
So, does anyone out there have both the MGM and ERA releases? Is MGM's better to your eyes?
So, does anyone out there have both the MGM and ERA releases? Is MGM's better to your eyes?
Last edited by tofferman; 08-23-07 at 10:56 PM.