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View Full Version : Movies where the bad guy wins?


LolaRennt
08-13-07, 03:21 PM
Hi,

I love movies where the bad guy wins, but I can't remember too many movies like that? Do you know any?

Example:
The talented Mr Ripley
Henry, portrait of a serial killer

RichC2
08-13-07, 03:24 PM
Another thread where we're required to spoil movies with absolutely no warnings... le sigh.

Mr. Brooks (technically)
The Passion of the Christ
Hannibal

bhk
08-13-07, 03:24 PM
Primary Colors








;)

inri222
08-13-07, 03:29 PM
Bob Roberts

Rad14
08-13-07, 03:33 PM
The Getaway (Steve McQueen)
Rosemary's Baby (The Devil)
The Godfather & Godfather II (Michael Corleone)
The Silence of The Lambs & Red Dragon (Hannibal Lecter)
The Medusa Touch (Richard Burton)

Toad
08-13-07, 03:34 PM
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

(Solo frozen; Skywalker loses limb. Sure they get back in Episode VI, but that's an entirely different movie).

condorito
08-13-07, 03:43 PM
Arlington road is one of those depressing movies

devilshalo
08-13-07, 04:10 PM
Se7en

pinata242
08-13-07, 04:12 PM
The Usual Suspects

The Bus
08-13-07, 04:13 PM
Superbad
3:10 To Yuma
We Own The Night
American Gangster
His Dark Materials: The Golden Compass
I Am Legend
The Assassination Of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford
No Country for Old Men


Hope I didn't ruin any movies for you!

Ronnie Dobbs
08-13-07, 04:22 PM
Hannibal Lector wasn't the central bad guy in the Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, and Red Dragon movies. He was just a character that helped the FBI. Tooth Fairy Buffalo Bill and the guy with his face eaten were the central villians. I've never seen the Hannibal prequel though so I'm guessing he was the main villian and gets away.

chris_sc77
08-13-07, 04:28 PM
The Omen
Damien: Omen 2
Fahrenheit 9/11

Draven
08-13-07, 04:31 PM
Not enough, if you ask me. Would be more realistic and refreshing.

One of the reasons I've always appreciated Se7en - they didn't puss out at all with that sumbitch.

cornyt
08-13-07, 04:33 PM
Chinatown

LolaRennt
08-13-07, 04:37 PM
Fahrenheit 9/11
:)

Thanks for all the suggestions so far! This is great. I appreciate it.

I don't mind having the plot spoiled. I am much more interested in how the bad guy gets away with it. Talented Mr Ripley is a perfect example for me.

I personally think that Silence of the Lambs for instance is not exactly a sample of the movie I am looking for. At the end of Silence, all is good. The murder(s) have been solved. True, Hannibal gets away, but in a way, the public leaves with a happy feeling, because this is in all intents a happy ending movie.

Now, the movies where the real central character gets away with it, and you as a viewer exit with this slightly distraught feeling, that is what I am looking for.

Toad
08-13-07, 04:48 PM
The French Connection.

Toad
08-13-07, 04:48 PM
:)

... I am much more interested in how the bad guy gets away with it. ....



This is disturbing...you don't by any chance light ants on fire or anything, do you?

;)

BuddyRevell
08-13-07, 04:49 PM
Blessing of the Golden Cleavage -AKA- Curse of the Golden Flower.

dom56
08-13-07, 06:02 PM
Pitch Black - Riddick is one bad ass.

EEz28
08-13-07, 06:08 PM
The Seventh Seal

toddly6666
08-13-07, 07:20 PM
RICHC2,
THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST? If the "bad" guys didn't do what they were supposed to do, then Jesus wouldn't have died for our sins. Therefore, the supposed "bad" guys are the good guys, or heroes! ;)

Anubis2005X
08-13-07, 07:23 PM
The Passion of the Christ


:hscratch:

RichC2
08-13-07, 07:27 PM
Yeah I don't get that either.

gryffinmaster
08-13-07, 07:32 PM
Depends on your definition of "win", but I'll toss up Oldboy.

Cartload
08-13-07, 07:35 PM
Fallen

bhk
08-13-07, 08:09 PM
Fallen


Great example, made more twisting by the opening monologue.

chris_sc77
08-13-07, 09:58 PM
300
L4yer Cake
Brazil
Natural Born Killers

Ginwen
08-13-07, 10:03 PM
Brazil

I thought about putting that too, but after about 50 times watching it I don't exactly feel that way anymore.

dugan
08-13-07, 10:09 PM
Carnosaur

OldBoy
08-13-07, 10:19 PM
"House of 1,000 Corpses"
"The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" or most horror movie franchises really.
"American History X"
"The Last American Virgin"
"Braveheart"
"The Descent"
"One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"
"Easy Rider"

hardercore
08-13-07, 10:22 PM
Godfather II (Michael Corleone)
I'll give you Godfather I, Part II it's debatable.

UAIOE
08-13-07, 11:45 PM
Blessing of the Golden Cleavage -AKA- Curse of the Golden Flower.

:lol:

Premise
08-14-07, 01:41 AM
Jfk

inri222
08-14-07, 06:55 AM
Irreversible

Greg MacGuffin
08-14-07, 07:21 AM
Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978)

Rad14
08-14-07, 07:40 AM
I'll give you Godfather I, Part II it's debatable.


How so?

Jazzbutcher
08-14-07, 08:48 AM
The Vanishing
Fat Girl (maybe a stretch)

Pistol Pete
08-14-07, 09:15 AM
United 93

Draven
08-14-07, 09:25 AM
I'd argue that, while Braveheart and 300 end with the deaths of the main characters, the final battle that truly ends both pictures is a defeat for the bad guys.

They would fall more under "movies where the main character dies" than anything.

LolaRennt
08-14-07, 10:34 AM
I'd argue that, while Braveheart and 300 end with the deaths of the main characters, the final battle that truly ends both pictures is a defeat for the bad guys.

They would fall more under "movies where the main character dies" than anything.

Yes, I would agree with that.
The movie has to have the real bad guy who is one of the main characters defeat the good guys (gals) and come out triumphantly.

My vote for the day:
A clockwork orange

GoldenJCJ
08-14-07, 12:33 PM
A lot of horror movies do this. Two that come to mind are:

The Evil Dead
Jeepers Creepers

I'll also add:
Unforgiven

Charlie Goose
08-14-07, 02:10 PM
On Her Majesty's Secret Service

Ginwen
08-14-07, 02:23 PM
I'll give you Godfather I, Part II it's debatable.
I'm also wondering how that's debatable. Debatable that the bad guy won, or debatable that he's bad?

Apone
08-14-07, 02:31 PM
D.W. Griffith's Intolerance and The Birth of a Nation
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
Carlito's Way
Ghost in the Shell (open to interpretation)
Mystic River
Sophie Scholl
Sin City (certain characters)

Dignam
08-14-07, 03:58 PM
Man on Fire
Dawn of the Dead
Matchstick Men
Thomas Crown Affair
Romeo and Juliet

LiquidSky
08-14-07, 04:07 PM
"Funny Games"
"The Stepford Wives" (original from 1974)

kms_md
08-14-07, 04:54 PM
:up: to those who said united 93 and the vanishing.

Kudama
08-14-07, 06:11 PM
Ghost in the Shell (open to interpretation)
-eek- WWWHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!?!?!

Open to interpretation???
It was pretty clear that Motoko was in a severe state of existentialist angst and clinically depressed. She wanted what happened to happen. She essentially disobeyed orders to get inside. The Puppeteer (project 2501) was the hero of the movie. Motoko became part of a God. When asked in the second one if she was happy she stated that she had no qualms. She had meta-qualms before she merged with the hero of part one.

RichC2
08-14-07, 06:29 PM
The Skeleton Key.

Cardsfan111
08-14-07, 06:36 PM
Freddy vs. Jason

Dean Kousoulas
08-14-07, 06:39 PM
Snatch (Maybe Dennis Farina would get that fucking diamond after all!)

Rocky I. Although not the point of the movie, Balboa DID lose the fight, didn't he? ;)

riley_dude
08-15-07, 10:06 PM
Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978)
That would have been my choice.

How about Planet of the Apes?

Brain Stew
08-15-07, 11:26 PM
I'm also wondering how that's debatable. Debatable that the bad guy won, or debatable that he's bad?
Debatable about whether or not Michael really "won."


He doesn't die and continues to do business, but loses his wife, barely beats the Feds, loses Pentangeli, commits the unspeakable crime of ordering his brother's life, loses a lot of money and power in Cuba and causes a lot of mob wars trying to find who double crossed him.

The implication at the end of Godfather II is that of a King with an empty kingdom and he slouches in his chair overlooking Lake Tahoe. By trying to fulfill his insatiable greed, he loses everything of value.

islandclaws
08-16-07, 11:30 AM
Hatchet was one of the most recent that I've seen.

GuessWho
08-16-07, 11:40 AM
Revenge of the Sith.... the Republic is dead, Jedi in hiding, the Empire has risen, the Emperor rules all

Birrman54
08-16-07, 11:51 AM
I don't think Swordfish has been mentioned yet.

hogfishmaster
08-16-07, 11:57 AM
Saw, Saw Ii, Saw Iii

canaryfarmer
08-16-07, 12:25 PM
It's an awful, awful film, but I think Cube 2:Hypercube fits the bill.

Also, Storm of the Century.

shumway
08-16-07, 01:33 PM
Secret Window

FaustBos
08-16-07, 02:13 PM
Not to get too far out there, but I'd argue Frankenstein

The Monster was a tragic character, not a bad character. Those who created him, it could be argued, had good intentions but fell victim to their own godlike power to create. Not exactly evil or bad guys, but as well tragic.

When treated kindly and with respect, the Monster returned in kind. That he dies (sort of) in the end should fall into the guidelines of the question.

Not all films have a clearly defined bad guy, and I think films with more levels to characterization are far more interesting.

Someone mentioned Talented Mr Ripley in the first post.
This is a great example. What makes this film so uncomfortable for some people is the way you feel about the main character. Its not exactly bad. He probably has no concept of his morality anyway. He's a sociopath in the classic sense, and reacts to every situation with a moments thought. He never sets out with truely bad intentions but moves forward in a way to best suits himself. This is one of my favorite films.

Surely good people are hurt in this film, and Tom certainly wins in the end.

MScottM
08-16-07, 02:27 PM
Can't believe no one mentioned "No Way Out" with Kevin Costner. The first time I saw it, the ending really suprised me.

Shannon Nutt
08-16-07, 03:34 PM
Can't believe no one mentioned "No Way Out" with Kevin Costner. The first time I saw it, the ending really suprised me.

Yeah, but he was a sympathtic Communist. :)

FaustBos
08-16-07, 05:29 PM
Can't believe no one mentioned "No Way Out" with Kevin Costner. The first time I saw it, the ending really suprised me.

Oooo one I haven't seen yet. Not sure how I missed this one.
Will check it out

tdilia
08-16-07, 05:37 PM
The Usual Suspects

dhmac
08-16-07, 08:37 PM
The Passion of the Christ
Don't worry, that Jesus guy came back later and took care of business in the sequel...

<embed style="width:400px; height:326px;" id="VideoPlayback" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-6111198171671258990&hl=en" flashvars=""> </embed>

SmartisSexy
08-17-07, 03:35 AM
Irreversible

How does having your face bashed in with a fire extinguisher count as coming out on top?

Psycho
The Wicker Man
Chinatown
Wild Things
Match Point
Blair Witch Project
Valentine

Harder to find an old film where the bad guys win, it would have broken the Hayes Code.

GeorgeP
08-17-07, 11:51 AM
How does having your face bashed in with a fire extinguisher count as coming out on top?

Er...that wasn't the bad guy.

The camera lingers on La Tenia's goofy smile watching the two men exact revenge for the rape on the innocent man he was simply talking to.

SmartisSexy
08-17-07, 03:14 PM
Er...that wasn't the bad guy.


I remember the guy that was with him smirking, I don't remember whether it was the Tenia or not. I won't watch it again to check either, the film was total shit from start to finish. Now that I look back I think you are right.

chris_sc77
08-17-07, 05:03 PM
Wild Things

Harder to find an old film where the bad guys win, it would have broken the Hayes Code.

I don't think Wild Things would qualify (at least in my book)
I would say the two most likable characters end up with the money while I would say the bad guys would prob. be bacon, richards, & dillon.

Wolf359
08-18-07, 09:49 PM
Primal Fear...

and just remembered The Last Seduction too.

Josh-da-man
08-19-07, 04:52 AM
Debatable about whether or not Michael really "won."


He doesn't die and continues to do business, but loses his wife, barely beats the Feds, loses Pentangeli, commits the unspeakable crime of ordering his brother's life, loses a lot of money and power in Cuba and causes a lot of mob wars trying to find who double crossed him.

The implication at the end of Godfather II is that of a King with an empty kingdom and he slouches in his chair overlooking Lake Tahoe. By trying to fulfill his insatiable greed, he loses everything of value.

The thing about Michael -- is that, by the end of Godfather II, Michael had "won" but he lost everything of real value in the process. Including, arguably, his own soul.

I'm not really sure whether Michael is a "good guy" or a "bad guy." He seems more complex than that. I view his story as a tragedy, where you have a good, decent man, who becomes corrupted by trying to do the right thing.

Tuan Jim
08-19-07, 06:25 AM
In "Curse of the Golden Flower", I definitely wouldn't have described the emperor as the villain even though he was poisoning his treacherous wife

Arlington Road (already mentioned) was a great one though.

JumpCutz
03-15-11, 04:31 AM
Bump. :)

Anyone?

All of my choices have already been posted. :sad:

Deadman31
03-15-11, 05:30 AM
Every time I watch Heat I pray that somehow Deniro will win and inevitably I am always disappointed. I have somehow convinced myself that the ending will change someday. :)

kstublen
03-15-11, 06:11 AM
Someone mentioned it earlier, but Fallen definitely comes to mind. I've always felt that movie was very under-appreciated.

In The Bad News Bears and Rocky the bad guys won, but it wasn't a loss for the good guys in the traditional sense.

Phone Booth also comes to mind, at least insofar as the bad guy got away in the end.

Ozymandias won in Watchmen.

Hitler living through the assassination attempt in Valkyrie would probably also classify as the bad guy winning.

---

I definitely think people are confusing movies where the bad guy actually wins with movies where the good guy dies for a cause.

3:10 To Yuma

Yes, Dan died in the end, but he accomplished what he set out to and upheld justice. His death was, arguably then, a victory.

I Am Legend

Again, Neville dies, but he does so to save society. The bad guy (the virus, the infected) might have beaten him, but they didn't win.

The Seventh Seal

Antonius, etc. succumbed to Death in the end, so I guess you could say Death won. But really, Antonius allowed of and his family to escape Death, so Death lost in the end.

---

Natural Born Killers

One could argue that the media, represented by Wayne Gale, is actually the bad guy and the good guys (Mickey and Mallory) won in the end.

Freddy vs. Jason

:lol:

Dr. DVD
03-15-11, 08:15 AM
Ozymandias won in Watchmen.


While I would initially agree, if you have read the comic a few times, that's actually a bit off the mark. Granted, Ozymandias is not a traditional hero, but he does bring about peace in the world. He had the same motivations in the movie, but a lot got lost in translation to the screen. This really is something that one needs to delve a bit deeper than usual. I recommend reading the GN if you haven't already.

jfoobar
03-15-11, 08:25 AM
Spellbinder (1988, Tim Daly, Kim Preston, Rick Rossovich) has kind of an Arlington Road-esque ending.

james2025a
03-15-11, 08:36 AM
This is open to interpretation i guess, but here are the ones i have to offer. Fallen by the way is a great one and i always liked that movie.

Amadeus
The Dark Knight
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
In the Mouth of Madness
King Kong
Soylent Green (Been a while since i have seen this..but i don't recall a happy ending)
The Fog (Original...not seen the remake)
Videodrome

kstublen
03-15-11, 08:39 AM
While I would initially agree, if you have read the comic a few times, that's actually a bit off the mark. Granted, Ozymandias is not a traditional hero, but he does bring about peace in the world. He had the same motivations in the movie, but a lot got lost in translation to the screen. This really is something that one needs to delve a bit deeper than usual. I recommend reading the GN if you haven't already.

I have read it, several times. While I agree the graphic novel is open to interpretation, my interpretation is that Ozymandias is a psychopath with delusions of grandeur. He is a mass-murderer, and not a hero in any sense of the word. He can lie to himself all he wants, that those deaths were for the greater good, but that's not true, at least not in my opinion. He's a villain in every sense of the word, and he's the worst kind of villain - the villain that thinks he's the good guy.

And as far as I'm concerned, Silk Spectre and Nite Owl are complicit in the murders for not telling the truth afterward, no matter the consequences. I get why they didn't tell, I really do, but I think they should have exposed the truth regardless.

The Dark Knight

Yes, The Joker turned Harvey Dent into Two-Face, but in the end The Joker really lost. Neither of the boats was willing to blow the other up and Batman refused to kill him. For The Joker, Batman not killing him is the biggest loss there is.

TimeandTide
03-15-11, 09:10 AM
Last American Virgin

RocShemp
03-15-11, 09:13 AM
I have read it, several times. While I agree the graphic novel is open to interpretation, my interpretation is that Ozymandias is a psychopath with delusions of grandeur. He is a mass-murderer, and not a hero in any sense of the word. He can lie to himself all he wants, that those deaths were for the greater good, but that's not true, at least not in my opinion. He's a villain in every sense of the word, and he's the worst kind of villain - the villain that thinks he's the good guy.

And as far as I'm concerned, Silk Spectre and Nite Owl are complicit in the murders for not telling the truth afterward, no matter the consequences. I get why they didn't tell, I really do, but I think they should have exposed the truth regardless.

I believe that is exactly what Alan Moore was going for. The point was further driven home when you see Rorschach's journal at the end. Of all the characters in the book, he was the closest to being the true hero of the story (and he was a militant sociopath).

But in the end, that is sort of the point of the book. None of these so-called heroes were truly heroic.

For The Joker, Batman not killing him is the biggest loss there is.

In the comics maybe but not in the movie. The Joker clearly stated at the end that his endgame was neither killing Batman (who was "just too much fun") or getting the people on the boats to kill one another. That was all distraction while he carried out his true plan (proving he truly was a schemer at heart) of turning Harvey Dent, whom the citizens hailed their White Knight, into just another killer. As a bonus, the Batman (whom many citizens were also using a source of inspiration) took the fall for Dent.

So, yeah, the Joker won at the end of The Dark Knight.

bjh_18
03-15-11, 09:47 AM
The alternate ending of Dodgeball. They say it's the one they wanted to go with (although that itself is thought by many to be a joke), but the studio wouldn't have it. In my opinion it makes what is a fairly entertaining movie somewhat epic. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMupw1ICDfA

kstublen
03-15-11, 10:41 AM
In the comics maybe but not in the movie. The Joker clearly stated at the end that his endgame was neither killing Batman (who was "just too much fun") or getting the people on the boats to kill one another. That was all distraction while he carried out his true plan (proving he truly was a schemer at heart) of turning Harvey Dent, whom the citizens hailed their White Knight, into just another killer. As a bonus, the Batman (whom many citizens were also using a source of inspiration) took the fall for Dent.

So, yeah, the Joker won at the end of The Dark Knight.

Hm, I guess you're right; it's always tough for me to separate what I know about certain characters, The Joker in particular. I definitely forgot that he said the rest was just a distraction to turn Dent, so thanks for reminding me.

While I enjoyed the movie a lot, it is not without its flaws, one of which you've pointed out: that, despite what he said, The Joker did have plans, goals, and a purpose. Another would be Batman taking the fall for Dent, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If you're going to lie and say someone besides Dent committed the murders, why not just blame them on The Joker while you're at it?

raven56706
03-15-11, 10:51 AM
Primal Fear
Debbie Does Dallas- East meets West
The Dark Knight
W.

kenbuzz
03-15-11, 12:00 PM
Fail-SafeUS Ambassador: [over the phone] I can hear the sound of explosions from the north east. The sky is very bright. All lit up. [phone melts and high pitched whining sound starts]

Both sides overcome their mutual distrust to halt World War III, but they fail to prevent the disaster that "the system" has introduced as two great cities are obliterated.

kenbuzz
03-15-11, 12:00 PM
Wayne's World - original ending

Dr. DVD
03-15-11, 12:33 PM
W.


:lol:


While I would be inclined to agree, I think that's far from the truth if you look at it from the perspective of storytelling and don't let your personal opinion get in the way. W. is/was portrayed as a man with a life full of failed endeavors, and being President was another such instance. There really is no bad guy in that movie per se, unless you just see W. as a bad guy in general. This might be a case where the antagonist fails, but the bad guys don't win. Hell, given history, nobody won!

Seven is a favorite of mine, as well as Usual Suspects (Spacey rocks).

Don't know if I have posted this thought before, but an argument could definitely made that "bad guys" win major in the musical Chicago. Two guilty murderesses go free and make money in a show together, the well meaning husband is left in the cold, and the one individual of all the women in prison that might have been innocent (the Russian), is hung.

PopcornTreeCt
03-15-11, 12:35 PM
While I enjoyed the movie a lot, it is not without its flaws, one of which you've pointed out: that, despite what he said, The Joker did have plans, goals, and a purpose. Another would be Batman taking the fall for Dent, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If you're going to lie and say someone besides Dent committed the murders, why not just blame them on The Joker while you're at it?

Yeah, I never really quite understood the logic of the ending. The Joker managed to destroy Dent and Batman and yet somehow the city is supposed to be safer.

hasslein
03-15-11, 01:19 PM
A film I've only seen recently, and was really surprised was The Villian. Kirk Douglas, Arnold, Ann-Margret... Bizarre movie... Wile E Coyote actually wins.

RocShemp
03-15-11, 01:40 PM
Yeah, I never really quite understood the logic of the ending. The Joker managed to destroy Dent and Batman and yet somehow the city is supposed to be safer.

I actually got why Batman took the fall for Dent. Well, in theory. The whole idea is that Dent's reputation remains intact and he becomes a martyr that galvanizes the city into saving itself, much like what ocurred when Bruce's parents were murdered.

The idea is that, even though the citizens and the convicts proved themselves overall humane (despite some very vocal dissenters) in the face of the Joker's challenge, they need a banner to unite them. That would be Dent and the crusade that (as far as they know) claimed his life when he confronted the Batman who had crossed the line. Sure, it's doubtful that the city would fall appart if Dent died a killer (and a mad one to boot) but rather than risk stalling the progress they'd made, Batman chose to ensure they were untied under what Dent stood for.

As for making Batman take the fall rather than the Joker, the idea is the driving theme throughout the film that Batman is not a hero. He's a weapon. He's there to keep the criminals scared and beat them down if they cross the line. Such a fascist figure is not what you want as the symbol of hope for your Utopian ideal. So it was necessary to ensure the citizens did not view Batman as a force for good. They needed to view the common man (like Harvey Dent) as their ideal for hope and change.

Nick Danger
03-15-11, 02:13 PM
There were a whole slew of movies made around 1970 where the protagonist fights a corrupt society, shadowy government forces, or a vast conspiracy -- and loses. I like paranoia movies.

The Parallax View
Soylent Green
The Conversation
Chinatown
Easy Rider
(The second) Invasion of the Body Snatchers
(The first) Stepford Wives

Nick Danger
03-15-11, 02:13 PM
Also, when the protagonists are a bunch of thieves, do the bad guys win in Bonnie and Clyde or do the bad guys win in the new Ocean's 11?

Dr. DVD
03-15-11, 04:35 PM
Also, when the protagonists are a bunch of thieves, do the bad guys win in Bonnie and Clyde or do the bad guys win in the new Ocean's 11?

Bonnie and Clyde= Won-the police were the bad guys/protagonists

Oceans 11 = Lost, since it was Terry Benedict

inri222
03-15-11, 05:11 PM
q & a

1984

dhmac
03-15-11, 08:41 PM
Colossus: The Forbin Project

(A film I found myself wishing would get remade to have modern-looking computers in it... until I realized just how much they would probably fuck it up.)

Burgundy LaRue
03-15-11, 08:45 PM
In the horror movie vein, Eden Lake had the baddie getting away with everything.

mike45
03-15-11, 09:16 PM
Colossus: The Forbin Project

(A film I found myself wishing would get remade to have modern-looking computers in it... until I realized just how much they would probably fuck it up.)

I wish they would release this movie on Blu-ray or at least release a decent copy on DVD.

kstublen
03-15-11, 09:20 PM
As for making Batman take the fall rather than the Joker, the idea is the driving theme throughout the film that Batman is not a hero. He's a weapon. He's there to keep the criminals scared and beat them down if they cross the line. Such a fascist figure is not what you want as the symbol of hope for your Utopian ideal. So it was necessary to ensure the citizens did not view Batman as a force for good. They needed to view the common man (like Harvey Dent) as their ideal for hope and change.

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. That ending is just an excuse to have Batman being wanted by the police for the sequel. It just doesn't make sense for Batman to take the heat for murder, when all along he hasn't killed anyone. The fact is, they should view Batman as a force for good, because he is. He is far from a fascist and never dispenses justice; he just stops criminals from carrying out their crimes or catches them red-handed, and then leaves it for the police and prosecutors to do their jobs.

And Harvey Dent still could have been the hero because he gave his life to stop The Joker. Harvey Dent was a big figure in Gotham, and I imagine the headlines would read "The Joker Murders Harvey Dent" or "Harvey Dent Gives Life to Stop The Joker," not "Batman Captures The Joker." In fact, I imagine people would view it as Batman, the vigilante, making it out alive because he isn't a normal person; but Harvey Dent, a normal guy, gave everything for what he believed in. I think, ultimately, people would embrace Dent's memory for that, and not run with Batman as the symbol of hope.

writer106
03-15-11, 10:46 PM
Fraility

kstublen
03-15-11, 11:50 PM
Fraility

Incorrect.

Dr Mabuse
03-16-11, 12:03 AM
'Titanic' is easily the best example.

That hack Cameron cleaned up on that film.

Groucho
03-16-11, 12:06 AM
'Titanic' is easily the best example.Damn you First Officer Murdock! Damn you to HELL!

PopcornTreeCt
03-16-11, 12:15 AM
I want to play...

Fight Club: Tyler Durden's plan still came to fruition

Inception: Not entirely sure.

Shutter Island: Definitely sure.

Empire Strikes Back: Kinda.

Psycho: He definitely wins.

Memento.

American Beauty: The guy that says one of the greatest lines uttered in movie history: "Look at me, jerking off in the shower... This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here." dies.

That's all I got.

Solid Snake
03-16-11, 12:40 AM
I want to play...

Fight Club: Tyler Durden's plan still came to fruition

Inception: Not entirely sure.

Shutter Island: Definitely sure.

Empire Strikes Back: Kinda.

Psycho: He definitely wins.

Memento.

American Beauty: The guy that says one of the greatest lines uttered in movie history: "Look at me, jerking off in the shower... This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here." dies.

That's all I got.

oh god...not again.

Dr. DVD
03-16-11, 09:35 AM
Fraility


Disagree, though I know the debate needed to answer this would encompass a lot more than filmmaker intentions. ;)

Groucho
03-16-11, 09:39 AM
Shutter Island: Definitely sure.Who is the "bad guy" in this movie?

darkhawk
03-16-11, 10:04 AM
Avatar
Bugsy

PopcornTreeCt
03-16-11, 10:08 AM
Who is the "bad guy" in this movie?

Well, I would say that Leo is definitely the protagonist while everyone and everything around him are the antagonists.

As for the "bad guy" I would say his murderous wife.

Solid Snake
03-16-11, 10:59 AM
Well, I would say that Leo is definitely the protagonist while everyone and everything around him are the antagonists.

As for the "bad guy" I would say his murderous wife.

wouldn't he be his own villain?

Groucho
03-16-11, 12:18 PM
Well, I would say that Leo is definitely the protagonist while everyone and everything around him are the antagonists.They may be antagonists, but they're not bad guys. Indeed, they're all looking out for his best interests.

In the end, Leo is calling the shots and gets exactly what he wants. It's not pleasant, but he does "win".

Fist of Doom
03-16-11, 02:51 PM
Charlie Sheen in

...life.

Duh!

PopcornTreeCt
03-16-11, 03:03 PM
They may be antagonists, but they're not bad guys. Indeed, they're all looking out for his best interests.

In the end, Leo is calling the shots and gets exactly what he wants. It's not pleasant, but he does "win".

Good point.

Meglos
03-16-11, 03:26 PM
Last American Virgin

/thread

Buttmunker
03-17-11, 12:39 PM
Bugsy

Nah, they put many bullet holes into Bugsy. That's not winning.

Buttmunker
03-17-11, 12:41 PM
/thread

Meglos Re: Movies where the bad guy wins?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeandTide
Last American Virgin

/thread [/quote]

Absolutely ends this thread. Rick, the bad boy, wins. Art imitating Life right there.

georgec
03-17-11, 12:45 PM
King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters

Although I remember the end of the movie stating that Steve's record was recognized, in the movie itself Billy Mitchell definitely screwed him over.

Buttmunker
03-17-11, 12:47 PM
The Amityville Horror house wins! That house chased that family away, and the house was never blown up or anything. Evil reigns!

raven56706
03-17-11, 01:16 PM
Pearl Harbor
Apollo 13
Mortal Kombat
The Last Samurai
Halloween
Wizard of OZ

redcon1
03-17-11, 03:52 PM
The Undefeated.

GrouchoFan
03-18-11, 02:04 AM
Spartacus

riley_dude
03-18-11, 03:34 PM
In the horror movie vein, Eden Lake had the baddie getting away with everything.

Just saw this and hated it for that very reason. I am ok with the Bad guy winning occasionally but I think it has been overly used lately.

One's I can thing of right now are Skyline, Invasion of the Body Snatchers 78, One Flew Over the Cockoo's Nest, Requiem for a Dream and Event Horizon amd Human Centipede.

Buttmunker
03-18-11, 03:36 PM
Pearl Harbor
Apollo 13
Wizard of OZ

Pearl Harbor - the good guys won, in the end. Took a couple of Nuclear bombs, but hey.
Appollo 13 - the good guys won - they survived.
Wizard of Oz - the good guys won - the wicked witch melted, melted, melted.

Ash Ketchum
03-18-11, 03:40 PM
Has anybody mentioned MENACE II SOCIETY? The protagonist's best friend, O-Dog, gets away with murdering innocent people.

Buttmunker
03-18-11, 03:43 PM
T-Rex won at the end of Jurassic Park.

darkhawk
03-18-11, 03:43 PM
Nah, they put many bullet holes into Bugsy. That's not winning.

They were all bad guys in it.

terrible chong
04-11-11, 01:10 AM
Amadeus

But Salieri doesn't really win. Mozart is dead, but his music lives forever. Salieri is doomed to mediocrity. His music is forgotten. "Mediocrities everywhere ... I absolve you."

FrankTheTank
04-11-11, 09:35 AM
Has anybody mentioned MENACE II SOCIETY? The protagonist's best friend, O-Dog, gets away with murdering innocent people.

If I remember correctly, doesn't Chauncy sent the videotape of the robbery to the police and we see O-Dog getting arrested at the end?

terrible chong
04-11-11, 12:31 PM
If I remember correctly, doesn't Chauncy sent the videotape of the robbery to the police and we see O-Dog getting arrested at the end?

Yes