Breaking News: Karl Rove to step down

[Premise]

WASHINGTON - Karl Rove, a political adviser to President George W. Bush and a lightning rod for anger among Democrats, will resign at the end of the month, White House officials confirmed to NBC News.

“I just think it’s time,” Rove said in an interview with the Wall Street Journal published on Monday.

“There’s always something that can keep you here, and as much as I’d like to be here, I’ve got to do this for the sake of my family," the newspaper said.

President Bush and Rove were expected to speak before the Marine One departure to Crawford, Texas, on Monday.

Advisors told NBC News on condition of anonymity that Rove had been talking to the president about resigning for "a long time, about a year."

Discuss.

[Mr.Briggs]

Who will be Bush's new Brain? I guess he'll be off to the Emerald City to find out.

[NCMojo]

Why? People don't step down because "they want to spend more time with their family" -- that's code for something more serious.

[dvdmovie1]

It's like Enron when Skilling left for "personal reasons."

[DrRingDing]

Why? People don't step down because "they want to spend more time with their family" -- that's code for something more serious.

I'm willing to bet that he's used up. Bush had to order him not to testify before Congress not too long ago and that was not good politically. I think maybe he's finally become too much of a liability. Then again, liabilities have never necessarily been shown the door in this administration...

-ringding-

[brizz]

i smell indictments.

[NCMojo]

I'm willing to bet that he's used up. Bush had to order him not to testify before Congress not too long ago and that was not good politically. I think maybe he's finally become too much of a liability. Then again, liabilities have never necessarily been shown the door in this administration...

-ringding-
Yeah, who would have thought that Rove would resign before Gonzales???

Since I can't find any decent theories as to why Rove would step down... I thought I would make up my own.

1) Rove is covering Bush's ass once again.

Karl Rove has already been subpoened in the attorney firing case; while the Bush Administration is clinging to the "Executive Privelege" defense, they have to know that it will never stand up to judicial scrutiny. So Rove resigns, pleads the Fifth, and everyone else in the Administration says it was all Karl's idea.

(Of course, the Democrats in Congress could offer him immunity to force his testimony... but then they'd probably get pilloried by their base.)

2) Rove is resigning to head up the Fred Thompson campaign

It's no big secret that the Bush Administration and the GOP see Fred Thompson's campaign as their big hope to recpature the White House in 2008, and who better to run what figures to be a dirty, mudslinging campaign than Karl Rove? Thompson is expected to formally announce on Labor Day, right as Rove ends his term with Bush. Convenient timing, or an calculated move?

(Then again, it seems like the best way for a Republican to get elected in 2008 would be to distance themselves as much as possible from the Bush team. And Rove could just as well work on the Thompson campaign in secret from his desk in the White House, and keep alive Thompson's plausible deniability...)

3) Rove is getting ready to be outed

It's pretty much common knowledge in Washington's gay community that Rove is homosexual; according to the gossip mill, Rove has been a frequent participant at gay orgies, where he's known as "Miss Piggy". Could the DC Madam have Rove's telephone number in her records? Could Larry Flynt be getting ready to run an explosive cover story? It's all hypothetical, but...

(And it's not like all of this wasn't known back in 2005, when the heat on Rove was much much hotter...)


Any other theories?

[NCMojo]

i smell indictments.
From Fitzgerald? Or somewhere else?

Has Rove ever been seen publicly with Michael Vick???

[DVD Josh]

Why? People don't step down because "they want to spend more time with their family" -- that's code for something more serious.

In this case it's true: he wants to spend more time with his family before he goes to prison.

[brizz]

"Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?".

[General Zod]

A brilliant politician that even with everyone desperately gunning for him he still steps down un-indicted. You can bet he will continue to pull the strings in the background. I'm sure we'll be hearing much more for him in the future. I heard this morning that he's writing a book.. what a shocker!

[NCMojo]

"Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?".
Updated for 2008: "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for Rudy Giuliani if you knew he liked to wear women's clothes?"

[AGuyNamedMike]

"Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?".


More. That brown sugar is some sweet, sweet stuff.

[DVD Josh]

3) Rove is getting ready to be outed

It's pretty much common knowledge in Washington's gay community that Rove is homosexual; according to the gossip mill, Rove has been a frequent participant at gay orgies, where he's known as "Miss Piggy". Could the DC Madam have Rove's telephone number in her records? Could Larry Flynt be getting ready to run an explosive cover story? It's all hypothetical, but...

(And it's not like all of this wasn't known back in 2005, when the heat on Rove was much much hotter...)


Mojo, what will you do now that the Weekly World News is ceasing publishing?

[Groucho]

Why is it when somebody is rumored to be gay, it's never that they quietly are living a gay life with a secret partner somewhere? It's always crazy orgies and wild antics.

[Tracer Bullet]

It's pretty much common knowledge in Washington's gay community that Rove is homosexual; according to the gossip mill, Rove has been a frequent participant at gay orgies, where he's known as "Miss Piggy". Could the DC Madam have Rove's telephone number in her records? Could Larry Flynt be getting ready to run an explosive cover story? It's all hypothetical, but...

I just threw up in my mouth a lot.

[Tracer Bullet]

Why is it when somebody is rumored to be gay, it's never that they quietly are living a gay life with a secret partner somewhere? It's always crazy orgies and wild antics.

Because the gays love cock and we want multiples at once. My day is never complete without a good 10-cock orgy.

Also, we are evil.

[X]

Mojo, what will you do now that the Weekly World News is ceasing publishing?Don't worry, the fanatical Democrat websites are still around.

[kvrdave]

People are going to have to find a new target for all their hatred. It would be very dangerous to not have an outlet for that much hate. If it just started to bottle up while waiting for a new target.....BOOOOOM!!!!

Well, at least we can start the gay orgies discussion. :lol:

[bhk]

The WSJ has a nice interview.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118697458949295744.html?mod=djemalert

'The Mark of Rove'
By PAUL A. GIGOT
August 13, 2007; Page A15

Washington

These are the days of Republican doubt, with President Bush fighting an unpopular war, Congress in opposition hands, and a 2008 presidential field trailing Democrats in nearly every poll. But don't tell that to Karl Rove, Mr. Bush's political alter ego, who even as he prepares to resign from the White House after six and a half years sees recovery ahead.


Sitting in the book-lined living room of his townhome on Saturday afternoon, a relaxed, cheerful and typically rambunctious Mr. Rove hands over two sheets of paper on which he has tapped out a pair of outlines. One says "Up to Now," and summarizes what he thinks are the achievements to date of the Bush presidency. The second, "Months Ahead," lays out an agenda for the next year and a half.

"He will move back up in the polls," says Mr. Rove, who interrupts my reference to Mr. Bush's 30% approval rating by saying it's heading close to "40%," and "higher than Congress."

Looking ahead, he adds, "Iraq will be in a better place" as the surge continues. Come the autumn, too, "we'll see in the battle over FISA" -- the wiretapping of foreign terrorists -- "a fissure in the Democratic Party." Also in the fall, "the budget fight will have been fought to our advantage," helping the GOP restore, through a series of presidential vetoes, its brand name on spending restraint and taxes.

As for the Democrats, "They are likely to nominate a tough, tenacious, fatally flawed candidate" by the name of Hillary Rodham Clinton. Holding the White House for a third term is always difficult given the pent-up desire for change, he says, but "I think we've got a very good chance to do so."

If that quinella pays off, however, Mr. Rove will have to savor it from somewhere other than his West Wing office. He's resigning effective Aug. 31 -- 14 years after he began working with Mr. Bush on his campaign for Texas governor, 10 years after they began planning a White House run, and after 79 months in the political cockpit of a tumultuous presidency.

"I just think it's time," he says, adding that he first floated the idea of leaving to Mr. Bush a year ago. His friends confirm he had been talking about it with others even earlier. But Democrats took Congress, and he didn't want to depart on that sour note. He then thought he'd leave after the State of the Union, but the Iraq and immigration fights beckoned. Finally, Chief of Staff Josh Bolten told senior White House aides that if they stayed past a certain point, they were obliged to remain to Jan. 20, 2009.

"There's always something that can keep you here, and as much as I'd like to be here, I've got to do this for the sake of my family," Mr. Rove says. His son attends college in San Antonio, and he and his wife, Darby, plan to spend much of their time at their home in nearby Ingram, in the Texas Hill Country.

Mr. Rove doesn't say, though others do, that this timing also allows him to leave on his own terms. He has survived a probe by a remorseless special counsel, and lately a subpoena barrage from Democrats for whom he is the great white whale. He shows notable forbearance in declining to comment on prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, who dragged him through five grand jury appearances. He won't even disclose his legal bills, except to quip that "every one has been paid" and that "it was worth every penny."

What about those who say he's leaving to avoid Congressional scrutiny? "I know they'll say that," he says, "But I'm not going to stay or leave based on whether it pleases the mob." He also knows he'll continue to be a target, even from afar, since belief in his influence over every Administration decision has become, well, faith-based.

"I'm a myth. There's the Mark of Rove," he says, with a bemused air. "I read about some of the things I'm supposed to have done, and I have to try not to laugh." He says the real target is Mr. Bush, whom many Democrats have never accepted as a legitimate president and "never will."

It is his long and personal relationship with Mr. Bush that has made Mr. Rove arguably the most influential White House aide of modern times. The president calls him to chat about politics on Sunday mornings, and they have a contest to see who can read the most books. (Mr. Rove is winning.) I've known Mr. Rove for 19 years and spoken to him hundreds of times. Yet I can't recall a single instance where he disclosed how his views differed from Mr. Bush's. Mr. Bolten hasn't decided on a replacement, and Mr. Rove's duties may yet be divided up.

Mr. Rove's political influence has been historic, notwithstanding the rout of 2006. His crucial insight in 2000 was recognizing that Mr. Bush had to be both an alternative to Bill Clinton's scandalous behavior and "a different kind of Republican." In 2002, the president's party gained seats in both the House and Senate in a first midterm election for the first time since 1934.

And in 2004, for only the second time in history, a president won re-election while helping his party gain seats in both houses of Congress; the other time was 1936. Much has been made of John Kerry's ineptitude, but the senator won some eight million more votes than Al Gore did in 2000, and Mr. Rove claims Democrats outspent Republicans by $148 million thanks to billionaire donations to "527" committees. Yet amid a difficult war, Mr. Bush won by increasing his own vote by nearly 25% over 2000, winning 81% of U.S. counties. The Rove-Ken Mehlman turnout effort was a spectacular achievement. If it did nothing else, that 2004 victory put John Roberts and Samuel Alito on the Supreme Court.

A big debate among Republicans these days is who bears more blame for 2006 -- Messrs. Bush and Rove, or the behavior of the GOP Congress. Mr. Rove has no doubt. "The sense of entitlement was there" among Republicans, he says, "and people smelled it." Yet even with a unified Democratic Party and the war, he argues, it was "a really close election." The GOP lost the Senate by its 3,562 vote margin of defeat in Montana, and in the House the combined margin in the 15 seats that cost control was 85,000 votes.

A prominent non-Beltway Republican recently gave me a different analysis, arguing that the White House made a disastrous decision to "nationalize" the election last autumn; this played into Democratic hands and cost numerous seats.

"I disagree," Mr. Rove replies. "The election was nationalized. It was always going to be about Iraq and the conduct of Republicans." He says Republican Chris Shays and Independent-Democrat Joe Lieberman survived in Connecticut despite supporting the war, while Republicans who were linked to corruption or were complacent lost. His biggest error, Mr. Rove says, was in not working soon enough to replace Republicans tainted by scandal.

What about that new GOP William McKinley-style majority he hoped to build -- isn't that now in tatters, as the country tilts leftward on security, economics and the culture? Again, Mr. Rove disagrees. He says young people are if anything more pro-life and free-market than older Americans, and that, despite the difficulties in Iraq, the country doesn't want to be defeated there or in the fight against Islamic terror. He recalls how Democrats thought driving the U.S. out of Vietnam would also help them politically. "Instead, Democrats have suffered ever since on national security," he says.

Mr. Rove also makes a spirited defense of this president's policy legacy, sometimes more convincingly than others. On foreign affairs, he predicts that at least two parts of the Bush Doctrine will live on: The policy that if you harbor a terrorist, you are as culpable as the terrorist; and pre-emption. "There may be a debate about degree," he says, "but it's going to be hard for any president to reverse that."

He's less persuasive on Medicare, where he insists that market reforms and health savings accounts are building a "critical mass" of popular support that will make them unrepealable. Yet Democrats are even now trying to kill Medicare Advantage, blocked only by the promise of a veto. If Mrs. Clinton wins in 2008, the Medicare drug expansion may prove to have been all spending and no reform.

He also insists that Social Security reform was worth the failed effort, and that Mr. Bush's ideas will be adopted inevitably by some future president. I ask if, given Mr. Bush's falling approval ratings in 2005 due to Iraq, he shouldn't have pushed for something less ambitious. Not a chance. "You cannot advance on the fronts you want to advance if you're playing mini-ball," he says, once again sounding like Mr. Bush.

As for 2008, he says, Americans "do want change," but "every election is a change election"; even in 1988, when Ronald Reagan was popular, the Gipper famously said at the nominating convention for George H. W. Bush that, "We are the change." Adds Mr. Rove, "I don't want to be Pollyanish about it, but if we keep our nerve and represent big things, we'll win." He won't cite a favorite, if he has one, among the GOP candidates, though he has friends in the various campaigns. He'll offer advice, if asked, but at 56 years old says he is done with political consulting.

He'd like to teach eventually, but he has no specific job plans, save to write a book on the Bush years, which "the boss," as in Mr. Bush, "has encouraged me to do." As for what his own White House mistakes have been, Mr. Rove winces and says, "I'll put my feet up in September and think about that."

And what about Jeb Bush in 2012? Mr. Rove first says with a tone of skepticism, "Ask Jeb." Then he adds, "You better get a younger man. My wife would kill me."

I hear the dems are forming a committee right now to investigate the resignation. :lol:

[NCMojo]

The WSJ has a nice interview.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118697458949295744.html?mod=djemalert

I hear the dems are forming a committee right now to investigate the resignation. :lol:
I think the "nice" interview shows that Karl Rove is just as out of touch as the rest of the Admininstration. Although I do like the theory that "this lets Karl leave on his own terms".

[kvrdave]

Of course he's out of touch. He's a gay, orgy guy who is known as Miss Piggy.

[wendersfan]

I'm fairly certain Mr. Rove is not out of touch with the American voting public. It's his job to remain in touch with them, and he's very good at his job. You can't take seriously what he has to say in an interview like that. He has to stay "on message". Hell, he probably created the message.

[NCMojo]

Of course he's out of touch. He's a gay, orgy guy who is known as Miss Piggy.
I just wanted to come up with some interesting theories... and, hey, the scuttlebutt about Rove being gay has been openly whispered for some time now, back as far as the Jeff Gannon affair in 2003.

But of my three theories, I would probably give this one the least weight.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/buena_vista_home_entertainment/the_muppet_show___season_one/_group_photos/miss_piggy5.jpg

[DVD Josh]

I just wanted to come up with some interesting theories... and, hey, the scuttlebutt about Rove being gay has been openly whispered for some time now, back as far as the Jeff Gannon affair in 2003.

But of my three theories, I would probably give this one the least weight.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/buena_vista_home_entertainment/the_muppet_show___season_one/_group_photos/miss_piggy5.jpg

"Whispered" on completely illegitimate wack-job blogs.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who hates this administration more than I do, but "Rove is gay" has absolutely no validity.

[X]

"Whispered" on completely illegitimate wack-job blogs.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who hates this administration more than I do, but "Rove is gay" has absolutely no validity.Is it safe to assume that those blogs/sites have a positive attitude toward gays? If so, why would they use the claim of being gay to attempt to tarnish someone?

[kvrdave]

Is it safe to assume that those blogs/sites have a positive attitude toward gays? If so, why would they use the claim of being gay to attempt to tarnish someone?

I wondered that as well, but politics trump all. Groups will eat their own when politics are involved

[Tracer Bullet]

Is it safe to assume that those blogs/sites have a positive attitude toward gays? If so, why would they use the claim of being gay to attempt to tarnish someone?

Not exactly a valid criticism- there has been a growing trend of attempting to out gay political figures that are publicly anti-gay.

That said, I have no idea where this particular rumor is coming from.

[classicman2]

I think that the Rove resignation has been greatly over-played by the news media.

What does it really mean? Very little.

There is no congressional election until 11/08. Bush can not run for re-election. He, Bush, and others in the WH must realize that Bush has no chance of getting a really meaningful agenda through this congress. What's left for a political advisor to do?

Now the media can turn all their guns on poor old Dick Cheney. They won't have Karl to kick around anymore. ;)

[DVD Josh]

Is it safe to assume that those blogs/sites have a positive attitude toward gays? If so, why would they use the claim of being gay to attempt to tarnish someone?

I agree they are hard to reconcile. I will make no comment on something I know nothing about (homosexuality), only to state that a large majority of republicans and conservatives would not view Rove's alleged homosexuality as a positive thing.

[Groucho]

Not exactly a valid criticism- there has been a growing trend of attempting to out gay political figures that are publicly anti-gay.True, but Rove hasn't made anti-gay statements to my knowledge.

[DonnachaOne]

Personally, I think it was embarrassment over "MC Rove".

Who will be Bush's new Brain? I guess he'll be off to the Emerald City to find out.Rove most likely hasn't had any effect on decision-making since the Plame silliness. He's dead wood.

[Draven]

That said, I have no idea where this particular rumor is coming from.

They haven't brought it up at the meetings, huh?

[NCMojo]

"Whispered" on completely illegitimate wack-job blogs.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who hates this administration more than I do, but "Rove is gay" has absolutely no validity.
Which is to say the mainstream media won't report on it... which isn't saying much of anything at all. But yeah, I don't really think Rove is leaving because he "greatly enjoyed the supervision of a certain hairy 350-lb. Leather Dominator who had won the Miss Virginia Daddy Bear title at the MAL festivities."

:shrug:

[NCMojo]

True, but Rove hasn't made anti-gay statements to my knowledge.
Maybe he hasn't publicly come out and gay-bashed (which would come across badly considering that his father is gay), but he was the chief architect behind the GOP push to add anti-gay marriage ammendments to the ballot in 2004 in order to drive out the fundamentalist vote.

I have no issues with anyone's sexual orientation. I have issues with cynical hypocrisy.

[Tracer Bullet]

They haven't brought it up at the meetings, huh?

No, all that we ever talk about are hairstyles, sequins, and fisting.

[Groucho]

Maybe he hasn't publicly come out and gay-bashed (which would come across badly considering that his father is gay), but he was the chief architect behind the GOP push to add anti-gay marriage ammendments to the ballot in 2004 in order to drive out the fundamentalist vote.That's more of a clever Machiavellian scheme than an anti-gay gesture. If anything, he was using the fundamentalists.

[Tracer Bullet]

That's more of a clever Machiavellian scheme than an anti-gay gesture. If anything, he was using the fundamentalists.

I would say it's both.

[Red Dog]

That's more of a clever Machiavellian scheme than an anti-gay gesture. If anything, he was using the fundamentalists.


Yep. It solidified Ohio.

[kvrdave]

I have no issues with anyone's sexual orientation. I have issues with cynical hypocrisy.

I doubt it. More likely you have issues with hypocrisy when you disagree with an issue. If you had issues with cynical hypcrisy, you wouldn't be for either party.

[Red Dog]

If you had issues with cynical hypcrisy, you wouldn't be for either party.


Thank you.

[Numanoid]

If you had issues with cynical hypcrisy, you wouldn't be for either party.I would just like to say that I have absolutely no problem with hypcrisy. I think he is a fine rapper.

[DVD Josh]

Which is to say the mainstream media won't report on it... which isn't saying much of anything at all. But yeah, I don't really think Rove is leaving because he "greatly enjoyed the supervision of a certain hairy 350-lb. Leather Dominator who had won the Miss Virginia Daddy Bear title at the MAL festivities."

:shrug:

Hopefully you aren't saying that the media would find proof of Rove's alleged homosexuality not worthy of reporting. Because that would be silliness.

[classicman2]

Have you noticed how sexual orientation seems to creep into threads?

I'm convinced it can raise its head on any subject that we choose to discuss.

[classicman2]

Without Karl Rove, the prescription drug benefit for seniors probably would not have come to reality. He deserves a bunch of the blame for that.

[Groucho]

I would just like to say that I have absolutely no problem with hypcrisy. I think he is a fine rapper.That's Ludacris!

[chowderhead]

Maybe he hasn't publicly come out and gay-bashed (which would come across badly considering that his father is gay), but he was the chief architect behind the GOP push to add anti-gay marriage ammendments to the ballot in 2004 in order to drive out the fundamentalist vote.

I have no issues with anyone's sexual orientation. I have issues with cynical hypocrisy.

Karl Rove built his career in part on smears and whisper campaigns (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200411/green/3)

One constant throughout his career is the prevalence of whisper campaigns against opponents. The 2000 primary campaign, for example, featured widely disseminated rumor that John McCain, tortured as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, had betrayed his country under interrogation and been rendered mentally unfit for office. More often a Rove campaign questions an opponent's sexual orientation . Bush's 1994 race against Ann Richards featured a rumor that she was a lesbian, along with a rare instance of such a tactic's making it into the public record—when a regional chairman of the Bush campaign allowed himself, perhaps inadvertently, to be quoted criticizing Richards for "appointing avowed homosexual activists" to state jobs.
-----------------------------------
The Alabama state Supreme Court judge races is where Rove cut his teeth in running campaigns.

We were trying to counter the positives from that ad," a former Rove staffer told me, explaining that some within the See camp initiated a whisper campaign that Kennedy was a pedophile.

I am glad this man who made a career out of smears, fears and queers, is gone. No doubt some Republican campaign will pick him up though.

[kvrdave]

That's Ludacris!


:lol: Holy crap. What that some big set up between you and Numanoid?

[bhk]

Let's have a moment of silence for those suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome. This news is going to be especially hard on them.

[DVD Josh]

So much for the objectivity of the press:

"As Karl Rove embraced President Bush today following an emotional farewell announcement on the South Lawn, the solemnity of the moment was shattered by Bill Plante of CBS, who bellowed to Bush: "If he's so smart, how come you lost Congress?"

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlDC/west_wing_reportage/bill_plantes_having_none_of_this_garden_party_64986.asp

[bhk]

:lol:

The hurt didn't take that long to manifest itself.

[Lord Rick]

Let's have a moment of silence for those suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome. This news is going to be especially hard on them.

You're talking about the ones who still support him, right?

I can see where they'd be upset to lose Rove.

:lol:

[CRM114]

Is "Bush Derangement Syndrome" an affliction that the people who STILL defend Bush suffer from?

[bhk]

You're talking about the ones who still support him, right?

I can see where they'd be upset to lose Rove.

:lol:

:lol:
I don't see any Bush supporter in this thread hurting. The only ones hurting are the ones spinning conspiracy theories why he's resigning.


Is "Bush Derangement Syndrome" an affliction that the people who STILL defend Bush suffer from?

Here is the definition: Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bush+Derangement+Syndrome&defid=1441489

A more expanded version:

Originally coined by columnist Charles Krauthammer as - the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush

Symptoms of Bush Derangement Syndrome include:
1. Believing that Bush caused Hurricane Katrina.
2. Believing that Bush was behind 9-11.
3. Calling Bush stupid despite the fact that he has degrees from Harvard and Yale and is a trained fighter pilot.




Remember, if posters here see themselves fitting the description, it isn't a personal attack by me.



Oh, and Karl says hello:

http://lucianne.com/routine/images/08-14-07.jpg

[Lord Rick]

(overly long diatribe deleted to save Internet bandwidth)


I think you have a crush on Rove! Isn't that sweet?

:lol:

p.s. you're starting to sound as wound up as IMRICKJAMES.

:lol:

[brizz]

My new favorite avatar...feel free to use :) :)

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/8177/roveresigningbushadminihf2.jpg

[brizz]

I think that the Rove resignation has been greatly over-played by the news media.

What does it really mean? Very little.

There is no congressional election until 11/08. Bush can not run for re-election. He, Bush, and others in the WH must realize that Bush has no chance of getting a really meaningful agenda through this congress. What's left for a political advisor to do?


Go to work for Fred Thompson ;)

[Numanoid]

Here is the definition: Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush.Oh man, I guess you don't remember the Clinton era, huh? The irrational hatred of that man was off the charts...before he was even elected. I imagine that there won't be any irrational hatred of Hillary by the Right Wing, should she be elected, either. :lol:

[brizz]

yes...i'm very much looking forward to the republic screeds after Hillary takes over the white house. It will be awfully hard for them to live up to the same standard they've belittled Bush critics for.

[NCMojo]

See, here's the thing: it's not an irrational hatred of George Bush. It's not like you have to be off in a loony bin someplace to think that this Presidency has been disastrous for this country, or that he lied us into an illegal and immoral war, or that the policies that he's advanced are, at the very least, Orwellian in practice and nature.

If anything, I think the Bush defenders are the ones clearly suffering from some type of derangement syndrome.

[wendersfan]

At this point, one would have to conclude that a higher percentage of Bush supporters are deranged than his detractors. Either that, or they simply aren't paying attention.

[kvrdave]

See, here's the thing: it's not an irrational hatred of George Bush. It's not like you have to be off in a loony bin someplace to think that this Presidency has been disastrous for this country, or that he lied us into an illegal and immoral war, or that the policies that he's advanced are, at the very least, Orwellian in practice and nature.

If anything, I think the Bush defenders are the ones clearly suffering from some type of derangement syndrome.


Next you'll tell me you also don't need a tinfoil hat.

[Tracer Bullet]

I think the problem is separating the man from his policies. I don't hate Bush, but I sure as hell dislike many of his policies.

[VinVega]

I think the problem is separating the man from his policies. I don't hate Bush, but I sure as hell dislike many of his policies.
Word. :up:

[kvrdave]

I think the problem is separating the man from his policies. I don't hate Bush, but I sure as hell dislike many of his policies.

Very true. But then I read what my party thinks of him and tells me what he has done, and it is obvious that he kills babies, wants old people to die, and hates the environment. :shrug:

Actually, I agree with you completely. It has always been that way.

[NCMojo]

I think the problem is separating the man from his policies. I don't hate Bush, but I sure as hell dislike many of his policies.
I don't like either of them. I hate the sneering, condescening tone Bush takes on, the belittling nicknames, his rambling, incoherent press conferences, the faux-cowboy, macho-man persona he exudes. I hate his smug piety, his frat-boy mentality, his black-and-white simplistic worldview, his bad jokes, his inappropriate comments -- God, I can't wait for someone else to take over, for there to be a grown-up in the White House again.

Honestly, I didn't hate Reagan or Bush Senior. I don't hate Bush because there's an "R" beside his name. I don't even hate him because his policies are anethama to everything I believe in. I hate him because, for God's sake, there's really no reason to like him. He's been pampered and spoonfed his entire life, and the GOP and the neoconservatives have crafted an elaborate political machine to make him appear grandiose and authoritarian, much like the smoke-and-mirrors light show used by the Wizard of Oz.

Why people defend this man -- why people ignore the evidence right there in front of their face and insist that he is cultured, intelligent, insightful, etc. -- is just beyond me.

[Mammal]

Bush is a mediocre intellect, who if he didn't have his family connections would never have been admitted to either Harvard or Yale. His abbreviated fighter pilot was for draft-dodging purposes. Nice resume though, on paper.

[Tracer Bullet]

Why people defend this man -- why people ignore the evidence right there in front of their face and insist that he is cultured, intelligent, insightful, etc. -- is just beyond me.

You'd never hear me say that, and I probably wouldn't like him if I ever met him. But hate him? I have better things to do with my energy.

[classicman2]

Would John F. Kennedy been admitted to Harvard without his father's connections?

I doubt it.

Like Tracer Bullet & NCMojo. I intensely 'dislike' some of his policies; but, I can't recall a president which I didn't distinctly dislike some of his policies - Clinton, George H.W., Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower.......

I just dislike more of his policies than any president I can remember - well, maybe Reagan.

[Numanoid]

I don't hate Bush-eek-

[NCMojo]

You'd never hear me say that, and I probably wouldn't like him if I ever met him. But hate him? I have better things to do with my energy.
Like hating daylight savings time (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=491306)??? Yeah, like that extra hour you lose in the spring is going to bomb Iran.

-rolleyes-

;)

[Tracer Bullet]

Like hating daylight savings time (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=491306)??? Yeah, like that extra hour you lose in the spring is going to bomb Iran.

-rolleyes-

;)

Wait... you did a search for my username and "hate" and that's all you came up with? Man, the forum search really is broken.

[cungar]

My new favorite avatar...feel free to use :) :)

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/8177/roveresigningbushadminihf2.jpg


Should say Fuck America: Yeah!

[bhk]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-goldberg14aug14,0,1275195.column?coll=la-opinion-center


Karl Rove: Bush's Napoleon
Like the French emperor in Russia, Rove's villainy is caused mostly by his failure to quit after his high note in 2004.
August 14, 2007


There's an old maxim that if Napoleon had been struck by a cannon ball on his way toward Moscow, he would be remembered as an unrivaled military genius and liberator. But Napoleon overstayed history's welcome and was treated harshly for it, first by the Russians and Mother Nature, then by his own people and, ultimately, by the historians.

In this and other respects, Karl Rove strikes me as a Napoleonic figure. He won an impressive string of campaigns. He dreamed of erecting a new political order on the ashes of the old. He'd look awfully dashing in one of those bicorn hats. And, most of all, Rove -- who announced he will retire Aug. 31 -- stubbornly refused to depart the scene on a historic high note.

Now of course, the comparison has its limits. Rove is not a bloody-minded invader or a dictator with scant regard for civil liberties -- though you might think otherwise if you get all of your news from left-wing blogs. Yet he fits the picture, because if Rove had left the White House after George W. Bush's reelection in 2004, he would have been a hero, a man remembered as one of the great political master-tacticians of the last half a century.

Obviously, Rove was aided in his 2004 task by the fact that the Democrats nominated John Kerry, a Michael Dukakis without the brains. But Rove and then-Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman managed to help Bush increase his support among blacks, women, Latinos, independents and urbanites and defeat an opponent who got 8 million more votes than Al Gore. The Republicans held on to the House and Senate too -- a feat not equaled since FDR's reelection in 1936. Coming on top of GOP gains in 2002, it was a truly remarkable achievement.

And then winter came.

Bush traded his political capital for the magic beans of Social Security reform, but the ground was too frozen for the seeds to take hold. Rove deserves mixed praise for the effort. It was courageous, but, as Bush's political brain, he should have seen that it was doomed to failure and hence ill-conceived. As Napoleon said, if you set out to take Vienna, take Vienna.

He might also have said, if you set out to pacify Baghdad, pacify Baghdad. Yet as the American public soured on the Iraq project, Bush's political ear -- i.e. the receiver of advice from Rove -- transmogrified from gold to tin. Hurricane Katrina, Harriet Miers, delaying the defenestration of Don Rumsfeld until after the '06 election, immigration reform: All of these moves conspired to make the Bush White House's grasp of the times seem increasingly thumbless.

Even Bush's first-term gems tarnished rapidly. While much of the criticism was disingenuous, few can doubt the White House regrets that "mission accomplished" stunt. The Medicare prescription drug benefit may be surprisingly popular, but the promised political windfall never materialized. Meanwhile, Bush's two most important domestic accomplishments in the second term have been the appointments of John G. Roberts Jr. and Samuel Alito Jr. to the U.S. Supreme Court. But even these masterstrokes ran at least partly against the first instincts of Bush and Rove. If they'd had their druthers, Miers and Alberto Gonzales would be on the court today -- a calamity from which neither the republic nor the Republican Party would soon have recovered.

The lesson here is particularly acute for conservatives. Rove engineered Bush's victory in 2000 by promising a different kind of Republican, a.k.a. a "compassionate conservative." That meant generally staying mute on racial issues, luring Latinos into the GOP fold by any means necessary and advocating federal activism on everything from single motherhood to education. The story is complex, of course. Bush won tax cuts and was stronger on defense than Gore or Kerry would have been. But the central point remains: Rove's strategic vision involved securing a Republican victory at the expense of conservative principles.

Partisan victories are nice, but they aren't an end in themselves. Harry Truman, whom Rove and others see as role models for Bush, himself liked to quote Napoleon on his fateful encounter with the Russians: "I beat them in every battle, but it does not get me anywhere."

Compassionate conservatism succeeded as a political tactic by co-opting liberal assumptions in much the same way that Bill Clinton's triangulation stole conservative thunder. Rove was, famously, the architect of this strategy, and as such the left hated him not for his ideas but for his successes, which they now want to emulate at all costs. The net-root "fighting Dems" who care about partisan victory above all else are in many respects the children of Karl Rove.

"What is history," Napoleon asked, "but a fable agreed upon?" After he pens his memoirs from his Texan Elba, maybe we'll find out what fable Rove subscribes to: the one in which he was a champion for conservatism, or the one in which he liberated the GOP from conservatism.

jgoldberg@latimescolumnists.com

Rove was worth his weight in gold just for causing apoplexy in many on the left and causing pissy Chrissy to spew like Mt. Vesuvius.

[classicman2]

I believe the true value of Mr. Rove was shown after the results of the 2006 congressional elections were in.

[VinVega]

I believe the true value of Mr. Rove was shown after the results of the 2006 congressional elections were in.
I don't know. Getting 2 terms out of a Presidential candidate as bad as Bush is, is pretty impressive. He really didn't have much to work with in Bush. Personally, I think Rove is brilliant. I can't stand his methods or what he stands for, but he's brilliant nonetheless.

[classicman2]

Well, he can always return to the academic world. Wasn't he a hisotrian?

I only wish that Cheney would follow suit and return to the oil service world. ;)

[wendersfan]

Well, he can always return to the academic world. Wasn't he a hisotrian?According to wikipedia his only degree is an honorary one from Liberty University.

[VinVega]

According to wikipedia his only degree is an honorary one from Liberty University.
I don't know whether to be frightened or amazed.

[classicman2]

He attended 6 colleges without getting a degree; but, he taught graduate students at the University of Texas. :rolleyes:

[wendersfan]

All I can say is that, if Mr. Rove were offered a position at (T)OSU, I would be first in line to take one of his seminars.

[classicman2]

I might return to my old alma mater just to take one of his courses. ;)

[Groucho]

All I can say is that, if Mr. Rove were offered a position at (T)OSU, I would be first in line to take one of his seminars.I hereby dub thee "Kermit".

[wendersfan]

:confused:

[CharlieK]

I think he's referencing Rove's gay-nickname of Miss Piggy.

[wendersfan]

I think he's referencing Rove's gay-nickname of Miss Piggy.Oh. I skipped over all the gay-bashing posts in this thread, so I didn't catch that one. :shrug:

[Nick Danger]

The fanatical Bush-haters have always said that Bush is a dummy, and the only reason that he keeps outmaneuvering the Democrats year after year is that the diabolically clever Karl Rove is his puppetmaster. I wonder what the new excuse will be?

Also, there is no such title as "Miss Virginia Daddy Bear." That even sounds stupid.

[bhk]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_081507/content/01125106.guest.html


RUSH: I would like to introduce you all to Karl Rove. Karl, welcome to the EIB Network. I cannot tell you how great it is finally to have you here with us.

KARL ROVE: Well, thanks, Rush. I'm honored you'd ask me and delighted to be with you.

RUSH: You haven't probably heard about this, although it won't surprise you, but I've gotta tell you something. It's a hilarious story. The editor of the Seattle Times was conducting a staff meeting when they learned of your resignation announcement, and everybody stood up and started cheering, and --

KARL ROVE: Ha-ha-ha-ha! Was my wife there?

RUSH: (Laughing.)

KARL ROVE: Was my wife in that crowd?

RUSH: (Laughing.) And the editor said -- this is what's funny. The editor said no politics in the newsroom. You've gotta keep this stuff to yourself. We've gotta remember there's a political year coming up. No politics in the newsroom! Anyway, people have to be curious. I know they are, Karl. You've been the brunt of all kinds of assaults and attacks, personally and otherwise, along with the president. How do you guys deal with it?

KARL ROVE: Rush, you ignore it. I mean, if you have to wake up in the morning to be validated by the editorial page of the New York Times, you got a pretty sorry existence. So the best thing you could do is just ignore it, plow on, stay focused. The president is very good about saying, "Look, we came here for a reason. We have an obligation on the country," and press on by it. I'll be hyperventilating about the latest attack on him by somebody, and he'll say, "Don't worry. History will get it right and we'll both be dead." So it's a good, healthy attitude about how to take it.

RUSH: That's interesting. I know you don't like talking about yourself, but I --

KARL ROVE: I hate navel gazing, Rush.

RUSH: (Laughing.)

KARL ROVE: I'm not good at it.

RUSH: But I want to ask you to do it, because the perception of you that's out there, courtesy of the Drive-By Media, is one thing.

KARL ROVE: (Laughing.)

RUSH: But people love listening to somebody who speaks passionately about anything, and you have that ability. You're passionate about a lot of things.

KARL ROVE: Yeah.

RUSH: Tell people about your perception. What do you want them to know about your job and how you did it?


KARL ROVE: Well, look first of all, you need to put my job in perspective. I'm an aide to the president of the United States. There are a lot of other aides to the president of the United States. So the first and foremost thing to understand is that I'm a member of a team. In fact, you know, our day at the White House starts early, many times at 6:30 or six o'clock with meetings or breakfasts, but every day we have a senior staff meeting that starts at 7:30, and for the first four years of the administration, I sat around that table -- there are about 19, 20 people in the room who are the senior aides to the president, and for the first four years -- I started my day sitting between Margaret Spellings on one hand and Condi Rice on the other. I mean, I look around the table today and I see the people that I've been honored to serve with as colleagues and aides to the president, and they are a remarkable group of Americans, many of whom have made enormous professional and personal and financial sacrifices to serve their country and this president. I've been honored to be one of them. You know, I've had a little bit of a unique relationship with the president that some of them have not had, but every one of them -- the president has done a magnificent job of making every one of them -- understand his aspirations and his vision, and as a result, they're a wonderful team. We can disagree mightily about issues big and small. We can argue passionately our views on an issue. We can find consensus on a lot of them. When we can't, we take the issue to the president, he decides, and everybody at the end of the day salutes smartly and says, "You know, that was probably the right decision even if I was on the other side of it," and it's really a remarkable place to work.

RUSH: What would you like people to know about the president that they don't know?

KARL ROVE: Well, you know, the president is a... You know, I've known him 34 years, and I thought a long time ago I would cease to be amazed by the guy because I've had such high regard for him for so long, and particularly after he became governor of Texas, I realized I was capable of being surprised a lot more, and then when he became president. Look, the thing the American people need to know about him is he is just as passionate today about doing his job of protecting America and of growing the economy and being focused on big reforms that will make America better and safer and stronger in the years ahead, as he was in the day that he came in, and he walks into that office and lights up that building with -- you know, it sounds corny, but it's inspiring to work around him. He's got a wonderful spirit. He's got a great sense of humor. He treats people with the greatest respect and dignity, and that goes from the guy swabbing out the floors on the first floor of the White House to, you know, some foreign head of state. He treats everybody with respect and dignity, and he sets such a wonderful tone and serves as a wonderful model for people who work around him. I think one of the reasons why this White House staff consists of so many wonderful people is because they're around him and realize what a great experience it is to be around him.

RUSH: Does it frustrate you...? I know you said earlier just ignore the criticism. Does it frustrate you with all the attacks on him as brain dead or a frat boy, that you're the brain and this sort of thing, or do you shelve that and just go about your day?

KARL ROVE: Well, I shelve that, but I have to admit I'm amused by it because, you know, this is one of the best-read people I've ever met. This is a Harvard MBA. This is a Yale undergraduate whose major was history and whose passion is history. Many times the people I see criticizing him are, you know, sort of elite, effete snobs who can't hold a candle to this guy. What they don't like about him is that he is common sense, that he is Middle America.

RUSH: He outsmarts 'em.

KARL ROVE: Yeah, and look, in a way, they "misunderestimate" him, and he likes that.

RUSH: (Laughs.)

KARL ROVE: In fact, I think to some degree he cultivates that because it doesn't matter to him if somebody on the Upper East Side is putting their nose in the air about him. You know, he is who he is, and he's comfortable in his own skin, and he's not going to change just to win popularity with the elites.

RUSH: You said that he's a voracious reader. Tell people. You and he have a reading contest.

KARL ROVE: We do. We do. It happened by accident. We generally gossip on Sundays, and the Sunday before New Year's of last year, 2006, we were gossiping and I could hear Laura in the background and the president said to me, "Do you have any good New Year's resolutions? I gotta figure out a good New Year's resolution," and I said, "I'm a big reader." When I moved to Washington we brought 158 cartons of books, and, you know, I love to read. It's a great way to relax and a great way to learn. I said, "Well, yeah, my object in 2006 is to read a book a week. My object is to do 52 books in a year," and he said, "Great," sort of dismissed it and went on. Well, about the 2nd or 3rd of January we're in the Oval Office waiting for the vice president and a couple of others to straggle into a meeting and he looked at me, and said, "I'm on my second. Where are you?" So we went off to the races on a book contest and we kept track of books, and I leaped to an early lead, and he began a refrain which he's used a lot which is that he was in second place because he was the leader of the Free World and had a real job to do, which sort --


RUSH: (Laughs.)

CALLER: I mean, look, this is competitive, but I mean, come on, please. But no, we've had a great contest. It's been a great experience the last year and a half. We've been trading book suggestions back and forth.

RUSH: How many books have you guys read?

KARL ROVE: I beat him last year, 110 to 94, and I'm ahead this year. I won't give you the total because it would crush you, and again he keeps saying, "Look, I'm the leader of the Free World, but, you know, I won the first year." In fact, it was almost... It was very funny.

RUSH: Wait. He's not reading little pamphlets. (Laughing.)

KARL ROVE: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! In fact, we both agreed upon a Mutually Assured Destruction. When we got too competitive last year, we both started reading John D. MacDonald mysteries, which are really delicious. He's a wonderful writer, a Floridian, who writes a wonderful set of mysteries, Travis McGee mysteries, and we both decided that we loved them. We were reading them quickly, enjoying them a lot, and then we realized this was being far too competitive. So we limited the number of John D. MacDonald mysteries we were both reading, so we could get back to the serious stuff.

RUSH: We have to take a commercial break. Can I steal you for a couple more minutes?

KARL ROVE: You bet.

RUSH: Great.

KARL ROVE: You bet.

RUSH: Karl Rove will continue right after this. Don't go away.


BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: The Excellence in Broadcasting Network, Rush Limbaugh. We're back with Karl Rove.

KARL ROVE: Rush I gotta ask you, is that a real ad, Spatula City? Because...

RUSH: (Laughing.)

KARL ROVE: I'm in need of a good spatula. Is that located over next to Toothpick Town?

RUSH: Yeah, they're in Wal-Mart. They're a section inside Wal-Mart.

KARL ROVE: There we go.

RUSH: Something I've always wanted to ask you and I just never have. Could you tell us what it was like in the first months of the administration, following the aftermath in Florida? You had made the strategic decision to adopt a new tone. You wanted to try to build bridges back to Democrats after the divisiveness nineties. The president had done it in Texas with Democrats, and you consulted them on legislation. Do you have any regrets about that approach?

KARL ROVE: No. Look, when we were able to find willing allies who are willing to work across party lines, it was the right thing to do. The problem was there are some Democrats who have never gotten over the 2000 election, who view the president as somehow illegitimate; never accepted the outcome, and hate him -- and there are some Democrats who made a calculated decision -- led I think at the time by, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle after the Democrats took back control of the Senate -- that the way back out of the political wilderness for them was to simply obstruct everything that the president was trying to do, and their basic attitude was, you know, "Okay, we may agree with it. We may think, some of us may think, it's a reasonable and responsible thing to do, but let's not give Bush, quote, 'a political victory,' unquote," and that's not helpful for the country, but it was.... Look, should the president be saying the ugly things about the Democrats that the Democrats routinely say about him? I mean, Harry Reid who goes jumping out there calling the president a "liar" and "deliberately misleading the country" and so forth. I mean... No, he's not going to do that. That's not who he is. He'll have a respectful disagreement. He'll hit tough on issues. He'll find ways to advocate his cause. But he's not going to engage in the kind of personal name-calling that makes Washington... Look, there ought to be politics and politics. But after the elections are over, people ought to be able to put things aside and look at things with the best interests of the country at heart, and if they don't agree, they don't agree, but if they ought to agree and should agree, they ought to try and move something forward and that's happened on many things. Energy legislation, education, tax cuts, judges. Look, we couldn't have gotten Roberts and Alito on the Supreme Court without having some thoughtful Democrats say, "These are people worthy of serving on the Supreme Court." We couldn't pass the tax cuts without having some Democrat say, "You know what? We really ought to give people back some of their own money." You know, I was interested this year on the budget resolution -- which is normally a straight party vote -- do you know some very thoughtful Democrats had some qualms about voting for the Democrat budget resolution, and at least one significant Blue Dog voted for the president's budget resolution.

RUSH: Yeah. Well, it's interesting. You said that the president in all of this will not respond in kind --

KARL ROVE: Sure.

RUSH: -- and this has been frustrating for his supporters.

KARL ROVE: Yeah. Right. Right.

RUSH: Because, you know, people want leadership. They crave it. They love the president and have a lot of respect for him, and they just hate seeing this stuff go un-responded to. I think yesterday, when Mrs. Clinton ran this ad saying the White House doesn't see some people, they're "invisible" to the government, and the White House responded yesterday.


KARL ROVE: Well, look, what's interesting, too, about that is, it's really amazing that she would say that. You know, it's sort of disappointing. This is... After all, Senator Clinton voted against the prescription drug benefit for seniors. Senator Clinton voted against allowing people to save tax-free for their out-of-pocket medical expenses. Senator Clinton opposes giving every American a standard health deduction so that they can deduct from the cost of their income taxes, their insurance premiums. You know, when we started as a country to say, "You know what? You can deduct your mortgage interest off of your income taxes," there was an explosion of home ownership in the country, which was a good thing. When we started saying to people, "You can save tax-free for your kids' college expenses or save tax-free for your retirement expenses," we saw an explosion of 529 Plans for college education, and 401(k)s and IRAs for people's retirement. That was a good thing. Yet Senator Clinton, who deems to lecture this president on health care, opposed allowing people to do either save tax-free for their out-of-pocket medical expenses, or, she also opposed -- she also opposes -- allowing there to be a tax deduction for people to take off their income tax costs of their insurance premiums. She's against having a level playing field so that the guy who has to pay for health care for his family or her family out of their own pocket, gets the same tax break the big corporations get for providing health insurance to their employees. She's against allowing people to buy health insurance across state lines like we routinely buy auto insurance today so you can shop for the cheapest price and the best product for your family's needs.

RUSH: So she wants to --

KARL ROVE: So I'm a little surprised that she jumped out there and made such an accusation when she's got a record that's so spotty and poor on health care issues. If she really believed people ought to have more health care, she should have been -- she should be -- standing with us and making some different votes.

RUSH: Well, since we're talking about Mrs. Clinton, how about your assessment of the Democrat presidential field and where they're headed?

KARL ROVE: Well, I don't want to become a prognosticator. So I'll simply repeat what I said publicly on the record. I think she's likely to be the nominee, and I think she's fatally flawed. I think that it's going to be a tough general election. It always is at the end of an eight-year run. It's very hard, if you look back in history, for a party to win a third term for that party. It happened in 1988 when 41 succeeded Ronald Reagan. It happened in 1948, if you will, when Harry Truman who had succeeded to the job won reelection. But between 1988 you have to go back to, literally, 1908 to find a real example of somebody succeeding at the end of two terms and even then TR had inherited the office on the death of McKinley. You know, it's rare, but it can and I think will be done, but it's going to be a tough race, and it will be against her.

RUSH: What are her fatal flaws?

KARL ROVE: Well, you know, you're trying to make me into a prognosticator and I want to set a high tone here, on the high road, but look, she is who she is. There is no front-runner who has entered the primary season with negatives as high as she has in the history of modern polling. She's going into the general election with, depending on what poll you look at, in the high forties on the negative side, and just below that on the positive side, and there's nobody who has ever won the presidency who started out in that kind of position.

RUSH: One of the things about your previous comments about her regarding her reaction or her ad saying that half the country is "invisible" to this administration. I'm going to play the sound bite a moment from now in the next half hour when her portrait was unveiled in the White House. The president was as gracious as anybody could be to both Bill and Hillary Clinton and all of their friends who were in the room, and yet she comes out and does something like this. Politically, what's amazing to me is he's not going to be on the ballot and they're all running against him still.

KARL ROVE: Mmm-hmm. Well, I think it shows a lack of vision. If you really don't... The fallback position in politics is if you don't know what you want to be about, and if you don't know what your vision is, go at somebody else. I think that the American people when they approach a presidential election, are always interested in the future, and particularly at the end of an eight-year presidency they want to know what the next person is going to be doing, and so to my mind... Look, it was so over-the-top that frankly, people, an ordinary cat listening to that on the street is going to say, "Well, wait a minute. That's not true." I thought it was also egregious that she, in the same ad, talked about the president of the United States treating our troops in Afghanistan as invisible. I mean, how did she vote on the surge? You know, this is a woman who has been less than supportive of the policies that those men and women who are in the frontlines of the global war on terror fighting. This is like a woman who has opposed the Patriot Act that gave us the tools to defend the homeland. This is a woman who opposes the terrorist surveillance program that allowed us to listen in on the conversations of bad people who are calling into the United States. She opposed the FISA reforms that would allow us to listen into communications and see the communications of international terrorists who are communicating with other international terrorists, even outside the country whose messages simply happened to flow through US telecom networks. You know, again, I'm a little bit surprised that somebody with a record so weak on these things would somehow deign to lecture this president, who is very popular among the military and military families because they see him as a strong commander-in-chief who supports them, loves them, and gives them everything they need and want.

RUSH: Karl, I didn't want to stop you during that. I've only got about ten seconds here to say good-bye. But thanks so much for your time here.

KARL ROVE: You bet, Rush.

RUSH: I received a bunch of e-mails from people when I said you were going to be on, who wanted me to pass on to you that they love you.

KARL ROVE: Oh, thanks Rush.

RUSH: We all do.

KARL ROVE: Thanks, buddy.

RUSH: Talk to you soon.

KARL ROVE: Thanks much.

Good interview on the Rush Limbaugh radio show yesterday.

[classicman2]

I wonder if Karl would appear on Hardball or Countdown?

I doubt it, since he would have to face something other than softball questions that he got from Limbaugh.

I expect him to appear on Larry King next. And there's always, Sean Hannity.

[DVD Josh]

Oh. I skipped over all the gay-bashing posts in this thread, so I didn't catch that one. :shrug:

Not a single post in this thread could be categorized as "gay bashing"

[TimJS]

Check out the comments (http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1240) of Glen W. Smith:


Karl Rove is smart enough, but he's no genius. Rove's political depravity put moral Americans at a disadvantage in contests with him. But crediting him with innovation or genius is like crediting Jack the Ripper with the invention of the knife. So why did the political press do it? Why did they love Karl Rove?

I don't think there's a comforting answer to this question. The relationship of Rove to the press really was like something out of an Anne Rice novel. They couldn't escape the erotic appeal of his lust for power, even when it was their blood he sucked, their consciences he corrupted. As they paled, they found it difficult to call him anything but a genius. Could they be so suckered by a dolt?

obviously, yes, they could be so suckered.

[bhk]

What does that make them(the press)?

[Draven]

What does that make them(the press)?

As gullible as any other Rove/Bush supporter?

[Jason]

I don't know whether to be frightened or amazed.

Well, you shouldn't be surprised.

[classicman2]

I'm shocked!

Karl Rove is being interviewed by David Gregory on Meet the Press.

He's not being softballed. Gregory is talking to him like you would a step-child. ;)

[DVD Josh]

I'm shocked!

Karl Rove is being interviewed by David Gregory on Meet the Press.

He's not being softballed. Gregory is talking to him like you would a step-child. ;)

I'm waiting for Gregory to get his one day. He's an asshole.

[classicman2]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/02/AR2007090201422.html?hpid=topnews

Book Tells Of Dissent In Bush's Inner Circle

By Michael Abramowitz
Washington Post Staff Writer


Karl Rove told George W. Bush before the 2000 election that it was a bad idea to name Richard B. Cheney as his running mate, and Rove later raised objections to the nomination of Harriet E. Miers to the Supreme Court, according to a new book on the Bush presidency.

In "Dead Certain: The Presidency of George Bush," journalist Robert Draper writes that Rove told Bush he should not tap Cheney for the Republican ticket: "Selecting Daddy's top foreign-policy guru ran counter to message. It was worse than a safe pick -- it was needy." But Bush did not care -- he was comfortable with Cheney and "saw no harm in giving his VP unprecedented run of the place."
___________________________

The book also said that CJ John Roberts was responsible for advising Bush to nominate Harriet Miers to the SC. Rove opposed her nomination. She didn't want the nomination according to Draper.