Help choosing the correct type of HDTV

[GradVT06]

I recently posted in the thread about the two 42 inch LCDs that are 1080p that Costco will have, but I didn't want to hijack that thread.

I mentioned in my post there my wife and I just bought our new house, and she's given me "permission" :) to buy our first HDTV. We want to do so around the beginning of August because we recently closed on our house, and our first mortgage payment isn't until September 1, and we want to use part of our mortgage payment for the TV if we had to pay it August 1... basically we have the money set aside for August that we don't need to pay, so we're using part of that for the TV. Our budget is $1000, perhaps slightly over, maybe up to $1100.

Most of the TVs in that range are 42 inches or less. That's OK with me, although I'd really prefer 42 inches and nothing less. We plan on either LCD or plasma because we plan to put the TV above the fireplace (I've attached two images so you can see the setup of the room, sort of. Also, from what I understand, both are good for viewing angle... as you can perhaps see, the kitchen is off to the side and we'll be spending time cooking, cleaning, etc in the kitchen while also viewing the TV.

As it stands, I think LCD is the preferred display. I seem to think that because I think they last longer and we have the TV on all the time. Maybe not as much since it's our first house- projects galore, but it's on quite a bit. And I understand LCDs don't have fans and even with improvements, plasmas can still burn in and gasses lose ability to show colors or something. LCD just appears to be a better choice.

Our viewing habits are probably 70/30 in favor of standard definition. We only watch 1 or 2 shows a night that would be in HD- House, Lost, Criminal Minds, Shark, Numb3rs, and a comedy or two. I watch sports, mostly college football and some NFL, some baseball. The rest we are viewing standard definition. We watch a lot of stuff on USA, TBS, TNT, HGTV, TLC, Bravo, FX, ABC Family, etc... lots of stuff that isn't HD, even though TNT and Bravo have HD feeds. I'm not sure if plasam or LCD would do better with standard definition. I don't know if they would do the same. You can't ever tell in stores b/c they all have HD feeds. So we would either be stretched or have the TV on 4:3 somewhat regularly.

Right now, we have a 27inch JVC flat screen CRT TV that we watch from about 10 feet away, it does well. Something that I like about it is that even from closer up, the picture looks good. Often I have to be quite a distance away from an HDTV for to not look fuzzy or pixelated or jagged. From the pictures, the larger couch (further away) is 13 feet from the mantle, and the back end of the smaller and closer loveseat is 8 feet away. The only windows in the room are the glass in the two doors next to the fireplace. The only other light would come from in the kitchen, or the ceiling fan/light in the middle of the living room area which you can tell (we plan on getting a fan light fixture that does not expose the bulbs, like a globe type thing that covers them).

I've seen this 42 inch Vizio LCD (http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=367891) for $887 at Sam's Club, it's 720p. In the other thread, there were posts about a 1080p Vizio 42 inch and Magnavox 42inch LCDs for $999, but the Magnavox is over. I certainly didn't think I'd be able to get 1080p for $1000 though. I've seen several plasmas that are 42 inches as well, from Vizio, or some lesser brands like Maxent or Sceptre or something. I would prefer a better known brand but I'm considering Vizio because they get high ratings for budget HDTVs and seem to get better ratings than all the other off-name brands.

These are the pictures, I'm sorry they're bad and fuzzy, it's with my cell phone, as our camera is packed up somewhere still. Can anyone look at the room setup, wide viewing angle need, location of the windows/celing light, distance, and viewing habits and suggest a TV, brand, or display type for me?

If all else fails, my inlaws have what appears to be a 55inch oldstyle CRT HDTV that's RCA and it's watchable from 15 or so feet away. Not great picture, but bearable as they stretch it and watch only standard def. So I know I won't get top of the line PQ, but I want the best I can get for $1000. TIA.

EDIT: I've taken out the two poor cell phone pics for hopefully better ones below, of the house before we bought and after we moved in and painted.

[SoSpacey]

I am a plasma person myself. I have 1 Plasma (Panasonic) and 2 LCDs (Sony XBR and LG) and the picture on the Panasonic is just plain better.

Plasmas dont burn in. I mistakenly left my HDTivo on pause overnight and had not one nurn-in issue.

Plasmas last...this isn't 2002. The half life of a plasma is more than 20,000 hours...and that is just half-life. Some are advertising 60,000 hours.

If you are going LCD, LG has the XD engine which I give them a lot of credit for...it is designed to display SD TV and does an excellent job of it.

720p v. 1080p should not be an issue for you. At 42" you will NEVER notice the difference from your viewing area. Spend the money on a better brand that is 720p v. a cheap brand that is 1080p.

Plasma just displays colors and black levels better and THAT is what the human eye notices...not so much resolution. Sharp does a nice job with a couple of their newer models in relation to colors and blacks but they are out of your price range.

[GradVT06]

What about the Panasonic makes it better? Contrast ratio? I have no idea what a good contrast ratio is, especially what a good ratio is for a $1000 TV, either LCD or Plasma.

I didn't think 1080p would be a big deal for me since I don't have or plan to buy bluray or HD-DVD for a long time or play any video games.

I saw that someone recently posted about a PANASONIC TH-42PX75U
42" PLASMA HDTV that was on sale at Frys for $1100, but there are no Frys near me and I prefer to buy something I can see in person and buy B&M. Especially if it's something at Costco or Sam's due to their liberal return policy (not to abuse it, but use if I needed to if a TV broke 2 months after buying).

This is a Philips at Sam's that looks like it may be good 42 inch Plasma (http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?catg=535&item=364187&prDeTab=1&pCatg=5884#A)

Edit: Also, in places like fatwallet and slickdeals and stuff they list what Costco is gonna have in their summer coupon book thing, and nowhere do they list a Vizio 42inch 1080p LCD, I think just the regular 720p and late in August a 50 or 52inch 1080p LCD, which would be out of my budget.

[Superman07]

^ what he said - least 720p v 1080p.

Also, I'd put it on a stand on the wall straight on in the second pic v above the fireplace. It seems like it would be a much better setup for what it's worth.

Also, I noticed you said good for a "budget" tv, which leads me to believe this is a stop-gap. With that in mind, you may want to go smaller, say 32-37", and get a quality tv. This would leave you a lot more flexibility later on to move it somewhere else - say bedroom?. I think you'd be hard pressed to do that with a 42".

[Superman07]

What about the Panasonic makes it better? Contrast ratio? I have no idea what a good contrast ratio is, especially what a good ratio is for a $1000 TV, either LCD or Plasma.

I didn't think 1080p would be a big deal for me since I don't have or plan to buy bluray or HD-DVD for a long time or play any video games.

I saw that someone recently posted about a PANASONIC TH-42PX75U
42" PLASMA HDTV that was on sale at Frys for $1100, but there are no Frys near me and I prefer to buy something I can see in person and buy B&M. Especially if it's something at Costco or Sam's due to their liberal return policy (not to abuse it, but use if I needed to if a TV broke 2 months after buying).

This is a Philips at Sam's that looks like it may be good 42 inch Plasma (http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?catg=535&item=364187&prDeTab=1&pCatg=5884#A)

Edit: Also, in places like fatwallet and slickdeals and stuff they list what Costco is gonna have in their summer coupon book thing, and nowhere do they list a Vizio 42inch 1080p LCD, I think just the regular 720p and late in August a 50 or 52inch 1080p LCD, which would be out of my budget.

Check that. I know Costco has recently changed their return policy from the previous liberal (read: non-existant) return policy.

[DVD Josh]

Everything else aside, your fireplace is way, way, too high to mount a display device above. You will be looking up at the picture from a significant angle.

[GradVT06]

^ what he said - least 720p v 1080p.

Also, I'd put it on a stand on the wall straight on in the second pic v above the fireplace. It seems like it would be a much better setup for what it's worth.

Also, I noticed you said good for a "budget" tv, which leads me to believe this is a stop-gap. With that in mind, you may want to go smaller, say 32-37", and get a quality tv. This would leave you a lot more flexibility later on to move it somewhere else - say bedroom?. I think you'd be hard pressed to do that with a 42".

It's hard to describe the odd way the room is setup, but we've played with our furniture and I just don't think we can get it setup very well without blocking the path from the kitchen or the foyer into the living room and putting the TV on/against the wall. We'll mess around with it more though.

However, if we can, we would need a TV that does well with glare as we'd have some light probably come in past the sides of the roman shades on the 2 doors, the fireplace (which we plan on using a lot during the winter) and the light in the living room and the kitchen. That is an option we are looking at, just haven't gotten the furniture to fit right that it doesn't block those two entrances/exits and keep open one of the two doors to the deck.

[GradVT06]

Everything else aside, your fireplace is way, way, too high to mount a display device above. You will be looking up at the picture from a significant angle.

We were looking at that and thought it might work. LOL, we've been sitting on the couch just looking up at the wall seeing if it appeared too high or if it hurt our necks, but of course we can't tell without a TV actually there. Since you're the 2nd one to point that out, we may just have to continue moving furniture until we get it right and can put it on/against the wide wall.

[Superman07]

Any possibility of some wider shots? Further back in the kitchen like in shot 2? Further back in shot 1? From the fireplace out?

[GradVT06]

I can get more shots but I'm currently at work... we don't have internet or TV setup yet at the new house. The more I think about what you and Josh have said I think the TV against the wall might be the better option. That way we also don't have to worry about creating faux sides to the mantle to run wires up and down. Actually, I do have a few pictures which may/may not help. They are of the house before we moved, and before we painted the panelling white and the wall above it tan. They are large, and I don't know how to make them smaller on my work PC's image software. I'll post a few....

This is standing in the doorway from dining room to kitchen. Right in front of the pic is where I was standing taking the angle picture. To the left of the kitchen's counter/bar is the living room, you can see the edge of the wall is with two doors and the fireplace in the middle is.
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1826/drtokitchen1wo8.jpg

This is standing almost in the middle fo the living room, you can see the kitchen on right and door/fireplace on the wall
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1179/lrkit1wg6.jpg

This is rotating left even more, the other side of the fireplace, door, and large blank wall. You can see the edge of the couch that previous owners had.
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/3055/fireplaceandwall1ds7.jpg

This is rotating left even further to see the large blank wall that you can see in the angle photo from the cell phone. It's the first place we thought of for the TV, but had a hard time fitting our furniture well in the room to put the TV there, basically where the couch is
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/4250/bigwall1lu0.jpg


And then this is the back of the living room, taken from basically just in front of the fireplace. You can see the couch along the large wall, the corner, the doorway to the foyer, and to the left of that the built in book case, then small wall section, and just to the left of that is the pathway back into the kitchen
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5594/backoflr1mt3.jpg

Hope they help and aren't too big! I couldn't figure out how to resize them to smaller!!! None of the people in the pics are me!

[GradVT06]

anybody? Best Buy, Circuit City, Sam's, and Costco are all about an hour away from me and the only places near me that sell HDTVs are Target and Walmart and I'm hoping to go soon to check them out in person.

Anyone have an opinion on whether LCD or Plasma would better for me? I'm looking at the 42" Vizio LCD at Sam's for $887 and plasma at Circuit City for $849.

I also found a Philips 42" plasma at Sam's, model 42PFP5332D/37, which I can't find any information on anywhere. It's 720p, 10,000 contrast ratio, and 1200 cd/m2 brightness for $1094 whereas the Vizio plasma is same contras but only 480 brightness.

I found an HP 42" Plasma model PL4272N at Best Buy that's 720p, 10,000 contrast ratio that's currently $1080 and will be on sale next week for $999, but I can only find one review online and it was highly negative, operating only 1 month for the first three due to various failures.

Lastly an LG 42" Plasma, model 42PC5D, 720p, 15,000 contrast and 1500 brightness, but it's $1300 on sale and it would be tough to find any way to price match or coupon to get it a little lower.

Any opinions? I'm going to be playing with the furniture tonight to try and find a way to put the TV against the wall. I had always said I wouldn't put a TV above a fireplace but I was just beginning to warm up the idea.

[Sdallnct]

a. yea...no offense, but you should have re-sized your photo. Hard to tell what is going on.

b. The lcd v. plasma is not a debate. Each have their strengths and weaknesses. But burn in is no longer an issue to consider on NICE set.

c. you can put above the fireplace, but if you do you probably want a tilting mount which will pull it away from the wall a little. This may or may not be an issue.

d. several have mentioned the 720p panny's. These provide an EXCELLENT image and IMHO the prices have come down so much they are the best deal in displays. Right now anyway. I have read good things about the LG, but since it is in the price range of the Panny, I'd get the Panny.

e. the visio's, westinghouse, hp's, ovivia's are 2nd tier sets IMHO. Nothing wrong with that. They should be cheaper but not the image quality of something like the Panny or Pioneer.

f. have you considered buying on the web? Even Amazon may have better prices then you are listing. And as mentioned you need to look at the deal sites like fatwallet or slick deals, here is an example

the 42" pioneer which is an excellent set for $1,300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16889213006&CMP=AFC-C8Junction
PION42JJ take a $100 off.

g. IMHO if you are going to spend a $1,000 put that aside and skip going out to eat, movies and bars for a month to set aside another $300 or so and get the Panny or Pioneer. If you absolutely want to spend less then $900 then any of the one's you listed would probably be fine. I about jumped on a 47" Westinghouse refurbished (LCD), but didn't.

[DVD Polizei]

What Sdallnct said. If you're going to get a television, do it right. In my opinion, eat Ramen Noodles for a few months and get the 50" TH-50PH9UK which is selling for $1499 at Newegg. It's more of a monitor, but it's 50" and you will certainly love it. I do, and I almost got a 42" size myself. If you simply cannot afford a 50", then hold off on buying the darn television until you can. You really don't need an HDTV tuner, because most people already have cable, and all you will need is a HDTV cable box which is minimal. No speakers on the UK series either, but you should have a receiver with speakers already, so speakers on the TV is a fruity desire. The only issue is the TV accepts BNC and composite, so you'll need BNC cables for the video and some BNC to RCA adapters for the cable HD box and DVD player, etc.

[Superman07]

While I mostly echo sd and DVD's comments, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to 50". I did manage to follow your picture layout and it does look like a very tight space, and that's without seeing how much room the furniture is taking up. I honestly think a 50" would be too large for the space.

I read what you're looking at above, but I don't know what you're looking for besides size and price range. What is more important to you - picture quality or price/size? This will help significantly in narrowing your choices.

[Superman07]

So I was about to offer Dell tvs as an option, but it appears they stopped making them.

Anybody know this?

Looks like you can still get one, but for that price I'd go with the 42" Panny/Pio.

[DVD Polizei]

Because I care. :D

Edited pics out of my post, blah blah blah.

[GradVT06]

Thanks DVD!! I went ahead and replaced them above, and also have three more scaled down pictures I figured out how to do is MS Paint and just removed the two I had previously taken w/ my phone and took a few that should be a little better.

This is probably the best picture. It's taken from in the kitchen with a couch horizontal right in front of the bar. From the position of someone's head on that couch to a few inches from the wall where a display would be is 11 feet and to the rear seat position on the vertical couch on the left that you see the front of it's 10 feet. We think we may put it on the wall or on a small TV credenza type thing basically right where that current 19incher is.

http://www.brinkleys.org/users/tsl/Files/smallpathway.JPG

Those distances may be show that we need a larger TV like 50inches, but we'd like to purchase now while have the $1000 set aside. We are also already cutting down on expenses and savings b/c we just bought the house at the top of our price range because of the # of bedrooms, square footage, 2 car garage, etc and stuff it has.

Should I consider JVC's or Sony's LCos or DLP? We initially didn't because we thought LCD or plasma would be required to fit above the fireplace, but if we're not gonna put it there, that opens up other display types.

What's most important- SD pictures because still watch a lot of SD channels and programs, I watch a bunch of college football and some NFL, HD picture is of course important but I know I'm not gonna get the best for this price, and trying to stick to $1000 or slightly above it, we may give an extra 10% wiggle room. Thoughts?

[GradVT06]

For example, what about this TV? It's a 52" LCos from JVC. I've been pretty happy with my 27" JVC flat screen I bought several years ago. Something went bad on it about 6 months after I bought it, I called JVC, they sent someone out to pick it up, fix it, and I had it back in a week. Pretty simple. The only downside here is that I'd be ordering it online. It's free shipping though. Plus, I haven't done much research on JVC and Sony's Lcos and there's as much out there online about them. It's also only $1000, only $35 shipping, and newegg sells it for $1800!!!

Amazon's JVC 52" HD-ILA TV for $999 (http://www.amazon.com/JVC-HD52G887-HDILA-Rear-Projection/dp/B000FGBVEI)

[Superman07]

Given your arrangement I think now even more so that you need to put it on that large wall.

RP is definitely a possibility, but that could eat up a lot of space in the room...not sure how much that will matter to you though. May seem too small? Those couches look rather large (and comfy!).

Also, if you watch a lot of SD and want to keep 4:3 you may want something that will give you 27" or larger in 4:3 mode. (That would be 33" WS or larger).

[GradVT06]

I think we're now leaning towards leaving the arrangement as is and putting it either on the wall or on a small (relatively) TV display table. That is, no large entertainment center thing.

I'm finding some DLP at 42 inches and some even bigger for $1000 that's making me rethink DLP and Lcos. Even at a foot deep (I'm not sure how deep some of the slimline DLPs are) that's not too bad at all. DLP always looked pretty good to me in stores...

This is an update for some that I've found:

**Westinghouse TX-42F430S, a Westinghouse 42" LCD, 1080p. I know
I don't need 1080p, but it would nice for the future, plus it's in the same
price range as other 720p's. It hasn't been reviewed on Cnet, but it got
good ratings from users there and it's brightness/contrast is in line with
other $1000 LCDs. Never very much extra dough for the 1080.

Link (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8386285&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050006&id=1181831586462)

**Vizio 42" LCD from Sam's Club, $887. It gets pretty good ratings from
most people and Cnet seems to think highly of it for an off-brand name.
link (http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=367891)

**Philips 42" Plasma from Sam's, $1080. Better brightness/contrast
than the lcds, specs seem pretty good. It's contrast is same as vizio's
plasma, but it's brightness is 3x better.
Link (http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=364187&pCatg=5884)

**Vizo 42" plasma from Circuit City, $850. 10,000 contrast ratio, not as
good brighness as philips, but less $$. Also, it's resolution doesn't
seem as high as some others.
Link (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Vizio-42-Plasma-HDTV-VP42HDTV20A/sem/rpsm/oid/180042/catOid/-12867/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)

**Toshiba 50" DLP from Circuit City, $1080. Unsure of the specs, but
good vertical resolution, it's 720p, and bigger size for same $$ as
others. Even with lamp replacement later, not bad $$.
Link (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Toshiba-50-DLP-Rear-Projection-HDTV-50HM67/sem/rpsm/oid/177534/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)

Actually, it looks like that Toshiba is on sale at Best Buy for $999 right
now :)

**Samsung 46" DLP at Best Buy, $1080, good horizontal resolution,
720p, OK contrast, bigger than some at 46" but smaller than the
toshiba which is priced lower, not sure which is better.
Link (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8246873&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050004&id=1168045339724)

**lastly, a 52" JVC HD-ILA (Lcos) from Amazon, but it's from a store
through Amazon, for $999. I thought Lcos has nice pictures was near
the top in all categories all around making it a good choice, and
shipping should only be about $35, but not sure about ordering it
only/not being able to see it first.
Link (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FGBVEI/ref=nosim/?tag=dealtime-ce-feed-20&creative=380333&creativeASIN=B000FGBVEI&linkCode=asn)

I might be leanings towards the Philips plasma, because 1) it's got better specs than the LCD's- 10,000 contrast ratio, 1200 brightness (3x better than vizio plasma), 2) I guess I'll trust Philips name a little more, 3) It's from Sam's with a good return policy should anything happen 3) if LCD and plasma are equal for SD programming, plasma should have the edge in sports, and 4) for the same price I could get bigger DLP, but then it's bulkier, I can't wall mount it if I want, and bulb replacements.

[Sdallnct]

I'm very impressed with the Samsung DLP RP's and have had my eye on the 46" for a while. For my living room something like 46" would be about perfect. Course I'm on my 2nd DLP projector and really use to the image, so I'll admit to being a little bias.

If your trying to save space and have the tv not take over the room, I'd skip the JVC. I'd also skip the Toshibia when you can pick up the Samsung for roughly the same price.

For 2nd tier sets, I really like the Westinghouse. Their 46/47" LCD I think are very nice. They have a more natural look to them then most LCD's I have seen.

[Dr Mabuse]

this TV is your best bet...

Samsung 4665f (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNT4665F-1080p-LCD-HDTV/dp/B000NVLQ72/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-5907157-4621764?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1184886034&sr=1-1)

amazon is THE place to get it... save you almost $1000...

[Superman07]

Since when is $750 the same as $1000?!

[Sdallnct]

this TV is your best bet...

Samsung 4665f (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNT4665F-1080p-LCD-HDTV/dp/B000NVLQ72/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-5907157-4621764?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1184886034&sr=1-1)

amazon is THE place to get it... save you almost $1000...

You might want to read the thread before throwing stuff out. His budget is around $1,000. Now if you can find that set for that price, then is "might" be his best bet. Otherwise it is not.

And IMHO, I'd take the Pansonic Plasma over that. Heck, I'd probably take the 720p 50" Panny plasma over that unless you wanted to use as a computer monitor.

[GradVT06]

I've gotta say I'm a little disappointed. I called both Best Buy and Circuit City yesterday to ask if they had any open box/displays that they sell for less, and each said they have big sections of them. I got pretty excited when I went there and planned to visit Sam's and Costco while I was there... about an hour's drive.

At Sam's, the Philips plasma was there, but it wasn't plugged in or connected to anything. It was the only TV there that wasn't on or plugged in. Couldn't look at it. The 42" Vizio LCD- they didn't have it in it's spot, but at an aile endcap, connected to a computer. How am I supposed to look at the picture when all it's connected to is a barebones computer? Not a single open box/display item in the back corner where they routinely have one or two.

At Costco they had this 42" Samsung Plasma, marked last one (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11223449&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|2341|3314&N=4001381&Mo=6&pos=0&No=4&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=3314&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10605-Cat2341&topnav=) but I don't remember if it was the same pirce. It MIGHT have been $100 less. We had gotten there just before they closed but a quick walk-through didn't yield much. My wife really liked the picture on a Maxent as I was writing down the model # of that Samsung, but I dunno.

At Best Buy they very few open box TVs that were bigger than 32". That was a waste of time and the discount wasn't much, basically the typical $200 off of a $1800 TV that you see in sales flyers.

Circuit City had quite a few open box TVs. Most of them were rear projection, something I was looking at as a last resort. a RP Sony LCD looked very very good, and several DLP looked pretty good. They had SD feeds of Law & Order and Scrubs going to various TVs, and on most of them the picture was just horrible unless you were far away. Only a small handful looked good far away and closer up (not 2 feet away, but 4 or 5), and most of them were 1080p. There was an open box LG 42" plasma 720p but it looked the worst out of any of the 15 or so sets that had Scrubs on, plus it was more beat up with scratches on the plastic casing more than others. They had this 42" Panasonic plasma that looked pretty nice (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panasonic-42-Plasma-HDTV-TH-42PX75U/sem/rpsm/oid/175535/catOid/-12869/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) as an open box, but it was $1300, only a $50 discount of a new one. They said was only $50 less b/c 1) it was just put up that day and 2) it was an open box return but the plastic around the TV had never been opened and it was essentially a new TV b/c only the box had been opened.

I'm really happy with PQ of standard def digital cable/satellite feeds, I just wanted a bigger TV size! With how bad many of those TVs looked in all stores, I'm considering dropping down to a better quality 37", a DLP, or begging the wifey for a higher budget for the TV. Either way, I want a much better picture than most of those TVs that CC had on Scrubs and L&O.

[Sdallnct]

I've gotta say I'm a little disappointed. I called both Best Buy and Circuit City yesterday to ask if they had any open box/displays that they sell for less, and each said they have big sections of them. I got pretty excited when I went there and planned to visit Sam's and Costco while I was there... about an hour's drive.

At Sam's, the Philips plasma was there, but it wasn't plugged in or connected to anything. It was the only TV there that wasn't on or plugged in. Couldn't look at it. The 42" Vizio LCD- they didn't have it in it's spot, but at an aile endcap, connected to a computer. How am I supposed to look at the picture when all it's connected to is a barebones computer? Not a single open box/display item in the back corner where they routinely have one or two.

At Costco they had this 42" Samsung Plasma, marked last one (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11223449&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|2341|3314&N=4001381&Mo=6&pos=0&No=4&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=3314&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10605-Cat2341&topnav=) but I don't remember if it was the same pirce. It MIGHT have been $100 less. We had gotten there just before they closed but a quick walk-through didn't yield much. My wife really liked the picture on a Maxent as I was writing down the model # of that Samsung, but I dunno.

At Best Buy they very few open box TVs that were bigger than 32". That was a waste of time and the discount wasn't much, basically the typical $200 off of a $1800 TV that you see in sales flyers.

Circuit City had quite a few open box TVs. Most of them were rear projection, something I was looking at as a last resort. a RP Sony LCD looked very very good, and several DLP looked pretty good. They had SD feeds of Law & Order and Scrubs going to various TVs, and on most of them the picture was just horrible unless you were far away. Only a small handful looked good far away and closer up (not 2 feet away, but 4 or 5), and most of them were 1080p. There was an open box LG 42" plasma 720p but it looked the worst out of any of the 15 or so sets that had Scrubs on, plus it was more beat up with scratches on the plastic casing more than others. They had this 42" Panasonic plasma that looked pretty nice (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panasonic-42-Plasma-HDTV-TH-42PX75U/sem/rpsm/oid/175535/catOid/-12869/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) as an open box, but it was $1300, only a $50 discount of a new one. They said was only $50 less b/c 1) it was just put up that day and 2) it was an open box return but the plastic around the TV had never been opened and it was essentially a new TV b/c only the box had been opened.

I'm really happy with PQ of standard def digital cable/satellite feeds, I just wanted a bigger TV size! With how bad many of those TVs looked in all stores, I'm considering dropping down to a better quality 37", a DLP, or begging the wifey for a higher budget for the TV. Either way, I want a much better picture than most of those TVs that CC had on Scrubs and L&O.

Couple of things....

1st...it makes little difference that you saw that many sets were not hooked up. It is impossible to compare/judge picture quality at the stores you mention. Simply not going to happen. If you are going to buy from there, do your research on the web then go buy it.

2nd...you maybe happy with the pq of your SD thru satellite/cable on your 32" (or whatever TV), but you likely will not on a larger set. This is not a issue with the set. Excellent sets show off the limitations of poor broadcast. Especially when you "blow them up that big". I have dishnetwork and it looks just dandy on my 32" tv in the living room. It TOTALLY sucks on my 100" screen in my theater room. This doesn't mean the tv in the living room is better. It means mean blown up that big shows how really bad disn network sd it.

3rd...depending on where you live you can at least get HD on a regular antenna that will blow away anything else available (except blu-ray and HD DVD's). You should try it. Free local HD can be addictive. Most prime time shows, sports, Letterman/Leno/SNL broadcast in HD. It is an awesome thing. Highly recommended.

[GradVT06]

I thought I would update from my previous post above.

I was at my local walmart trying to compare how plasmas look compared to LCD since many have said a lot of the decision is personal preference. Unfortunately, any Sears/BB/CC or anywhere else that carries them is almost an hour away, so walmart was it, plus they had the same feed going to all the TVs so I hoped it would make it easier. I think both my wife and I liked the LCD's picture a little better- they seemed clearer and sharper.

While looking, a walmart Assistant Manager was talking to another customer contemplating a sale, telling him about a Hitachi in the back that was a 42" plasma that they had gotten in a few months ago with limited quantities and couldn't put it on display for space reasons, but it was discounted to $699 and they only had 4 left. I checked walmart's return policy- 90 days, no exlusions for HDTVs, and took it home because of the awesome price. I wasn't prepared to buy yet, but because of the price...

Upon investigation, it is the Hitachi 42HDF39. I haven't been able to find very much online about it at all. This is from Hitachi's website (http://www.hitachi.us/tv/browse/plasma/plasma/42hdf39.shtml) but again not a whole lot, and it doesn't say what the contrast ratio is.

It's 1024 x 1024, that seemed quite odd to me. I hooked it up, and since we just moved I don't have a lot out. We don't have cable hooked up yet, and all I have is a Cyberhome Pscan DVD player. All I had at the moment were Svideo cables.

1) The picture seemed OK, at times very good, at times not so good. We put on Season 1 of LOST into the DVD player. I thought it was true 16x9 and would fill the entire screen. It automatically was "16x9 standard" aspect and still had black bars. Most other options just zoomed in and cut out picture. 16x9 zoom, 4x3 zoom1, 2, and 3.. all except 4:3 standard, with bars on top and sides. That was a little baffling. I tried another movie, Major League 2, same thing.

2) After a while, I got out the Component cables, hooked them up. Except the TV would search for video signal, first Y/Pr/Pb, then Y/Cr/Cb, then it would say no signal and go to sleep. I know the cables work, I had them hooked up to cable box at our old place to our TV, and I had just driven there to get them. No matter what I did, I couldn't get the TV to recognize the video signal and had to use Svideo. I found it odd that it only had 1 HDMI connection given that it was only manufactured a year ago, according to the date stamp on the TV.

3) After a while, gray lines appeared. Maybe .5cm wide, it would appear on two sides at the same time. For example, it would run completely along the bottom and left side, then after 10 minutes go away. The they would come back, and be along the very top and right side. It was always either top or bottom AND left or right. The lines weren't over the picture b/c when they came and disappeared you could see the screen shift as it got "pushed away" a little bit by the lines. After a while, after playing with some contrast/brightness warm/cool/natural settings, they completely stopped coming and going. After that (maybe 2-3 hours of viewing) they completely stopped. This weekend we watched the whole season of LOST and since that 3rd or 4th episode, we didn't see those gray bars again.

4) A lot of times the picture was good, sometimes not soo good. Sometimes very clear and focused, sometimes it was jagged, like seeing small color blockes in pictures eges. I know these are the same thing you see when looking close up on tube TVs, but a 42" TV from 12 feet away? Of course, it was especially evident during action/fast motion scenes, especially on people. We could also see ghosting effects when Jack for example was running around on the beach in the pilot and other action scenes. I couldn't tell if it was just because it was LOST (filmed outside, in the jungle, lots of dark scenes, etc) but there seemed to be an awful lot of black. I'm not 100% if I was missing some shadows or if it really was that dark, especially at night around fires and torches, etc. People either had a very very red/orange tint, or a very cool bluish tint in other scenes like at the caves. I know it's not an HD picture, but I would have expected it to be a little better coming from a DVD player. I don't know if I had to 'enable' progressive scan from the DVD player's manu, I didn't even have the remote yet, I just played all. Or if I had to have the components hooked up for prog scan (I never could get the TV to recognize video signal from them), but I thought jaggies and ghosting would be much rarer occurance than they were watching LOST.

Any thoughts? Can any experienced HD gurus offer anything?

[Superman07]

Offer anything?...on how to fix some of the issues?

Also, I cringe at the fact they had the TV for $699. Three reasons:

1) Google doesn't even show anybody selling it for under $1600 (1k more!!)

2) "Space" reasons prevented them from putting it out - or something...

3) Sorry, but Vizio doesn't even have a 42" for that low and frankly they are the bottom of the chain (in a good way I guess) for HDTVs. At least by my standards.

Probably not what you want to hear, and I know it's a hastle, but if I were you I would definitely take it back and wait until you can find something you like and are confident in before you even take it home.

[GradVT06]

Offer anything?...on how to fix some of the issues?



Right.. like I had trouble finding barely anything at all online. I've never seen a 1024x1024 plasma before. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing.

Most of the time the picture was quite good- it just got jagged more often than I expected it to. Is that because I was using S-Video? B/c it wasn't progressive (maybe b/c the components wouldn't work)? Any idea why the TV wouldn't 'see' the video signal from the components?

The guy said it was from a limited quantities promotion and they had them in the back but not on display. It originally range up $999 but the manager had to price correct it and take off the discount. I still have nothing to compare it to... I don't have cable hooked up yet so I haven't seen a SD cable or HD cable signal yet, and I hope maybe the picture wasn't as good b/c it wasn't progressive.

Any idea on the gray bars that showed up?

I just read on slickdeals that BJ's is gonna have the Vizio 42" LCD 1080p for $999 in August... Costco has had two recently IIRC, I hope Sam's, who we belong to, has one soon so we can compare the two side by side and return the one we don't like.

[Superman07]

Right.. like I had trouble finding barely anything at all online. I've never seen a 1024x1024 plasma before. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing.

Most of the time the picture was quite good- it just got jagged more often than I expected it to. Is that because I was using S-Video? B/c it wasn't progressive (maybe b/c the components wouldn't work)? Any idea why the TV wouldn't 'see' the video signal from the components?

The guy said it was from a limited quantities promotion and they had them in the back but not on display. It originally range up $999 but the manager had to price correct it and take off the discount. I still have nothing to compare it to... I don't have cable hooked up yet so I haven't seen a SD cable or HD cable signal yet, and I hope maybe the picture wasn't as good b/c it wasn't progressive.

Any idea on the gray bars that showed up?

I just read on slickdeals that BJ's is gonna have the Vizio 42" LCD 1080p for $999 in August... Costco has had two recently IIRC, I hope Sam's, who we belong to, has one soon so we can compare the two side by side and return the one we don't like.

Sorry, no idea on the bars issue.

I wouldn't think the problems you were having would be so pronounced simply by using one type of connector v another.

As for the input issue my guess would be the TV over the cables or input device itself. Anybody else want to chime in on this one?

[GradVT06]

I think I figured out why no video via component- I still didn't have my remote for the DVD player, still packed somewhere. I probably need to set it to output to 16x9. Also, someone has mentioned that cyberhome, the inexpensive one I'm using at the moment, need to 'activate' the component output.

As far as the slim gray bars (one horizontal, either top or bottom and one vertical, either left or right) MAY be some anti-burn in feature? It only happened during first few hours, came on after 15 minutes, stayed on for a while, then off, then switched positions, then off again. Just a thought.

Any opinions on how a 1024x1024 resolution will affect HD picture? SD picture? Is this a good or bad thing compared to other 1024x768 plasmas?

[Spiky]

Well, none of those 42" plasmas are true HD since none go to 1280 pixels wide. A TV like that has to recalculate any video source you send it since it has an oddball resolution. So you are at the mercy of its processor. But that's no different from 1024x768 plasmas, same issue. It's just something you have to deal with in this price range.

As for the black bars with Lost DVDs, check your DVDp settings first.

And you might expect more jaggies or other issues from a cheap player like Cyberhome. It may have nothing to do with Svideo vs component, tough call. But definitely turn on the component output to compare, it should be better overall. You should invest in DVE or Avia since you care about little details like color and black detail, I believe DVE is still under $17 at Deepdiscount. You may be able to get rid of some of the blocking and color issues you mentioned with proper calibration.

Those gray bars are probably an anti-burn-in feature. I can't think of any other reason for them.

[GradVT06]

Thanks spiky! We did in fact find our DVD player's remote while unpacking, and enablex 16x9 output and enabled component out, and the picture was much better. Some areas still just a little bit fuzzy, but for 95% of it-great picture.

Next up will be an upconverting DVD Player. I'm not even sure if I need a calibration disc as the picture has improved and I've been able to tweak the bright/contrast/tint/color temp etc to my liking. That may change once we get cable hooked up and I get to see HD for the first time ever (except for in store displays). Sadly, no one I know actually has HD.

[GradVT06]

Also, another question:

I've been told Upconverting DVD Players require HDMI out (most of them anyway). That means for the TV with only 1 HDMI in, I'd have to chose between that and HD cable receiver. If I choose to forego an HDMI switch and just use component cables for HD cable receiver to the HDTV, will I notice a difference compared to if I had used the HDMI for HD cable? I'm not sure if I will on a 1024x1024 plasma, or if they will appear the same.

[Sdallnct]

There is a great debate on if HDMI v Compenent delivers a better picture. Most agree that it really depends on the specific equipment involved. So there is no universal answer. You should try it.

I "felt" HDMI was better on my PJ then component. PJ only has one HDMI connection. I have FOUR HDMI components. Answer? Monoprice HDMI switcher.

[GradVT06]

Sorry.. PJ? can't think anything that could stand for.

I was looking at a Terk HDMI switcher that automatically switches (like when I turn the DVD player on or off) so I don't have to use a remote to switch it, but if I can't tell the difference between the two I'd rather not spend the $50/$60 Amazon has it for. I think I'll test both before I decide.

Thanks Sdallnct.

[Superman07]

There is a great debate on if HDMI v Compenent delivers a better picture. Most agree that it really depends on the specific equipment involved. So there is no universal answer. You should try it.

I "felt" HDMI was better on my PJ then component. PJ only has one HDMI connection. I have FOUR HDMI components. Answer? Monoprice HDMI switcher.

Likewise, was running a SA 8300HD onto a Westinghouse 42" LCD a year or so ago. I tried hooking it up both ways and could not tell a difference.

[Spiky]

PJ = projector.

[GradVT06]

I wanted to bump this because I've got one remaining question. So far I've been happy watching DVDs like LOST, but shows like MONK have been somewhat disappointing as far as PQ/clarity and graininess.

Is an upconverting DVD player worth it? Looking at the Philips DVP5982. Will I notice a difference? NR on my TV is 1024x1024. Thanks!

[Spiky]

Yes, well....Monk is disappointing in HD as well. (on UHD, I think) So no surprise on the DVDs.

You spent less than your $1000 budget, right? Maybe you should get an A2 for $300. Pretty good upconverting, plus HDDVD. Which would be even better. Philips is...not recommended by me. By others, though.