Sci-Fi and Fantasy, why do they not get respect?

[OwlAtHome]

Sci-Fi has been around since the 30s and is responsible for most of the technical advances in moviemaking used today but people who aren't fans of the genre always seem to dismiss it as fluff or something that's "just for kids"

[naitram]

I think that's how it is for any genre films though. Most average movie-goers will avoid films in a genre they're not interested in. Some people disregard horror films, westerns, etc...

[calhoun07]

My theory is because when it flops, it flops BIG. And becomes a joke. When a comedy flops or a drama flops, nobody associates bad special effects with it as well.

That is, of course, a broad generalization. But let's face it, the number of great sci-fi/fantasy movies out number the number of really bad movies. Same goes for horror, and you don't see those in Academy Awards nominations often either, do you?

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Star Wars, Blade Runner, Matrix, LOTR, ET etc. Plenty of good scifi movies what do you mean no respect? Its just a riskier and more expensive investment than other types of movies.

[leacha]

I think it's the stigma rabid fans give the genres. My wife's brother is a serious Star Wars and Star Trek nerd. So it turned her off.

She's slowly changing after I told her that she has a problem with a show or movie as soon as she sees a laser or spaceship, she will then get it immediately get it in her head that it sucks. I made her watch Battlestar Galactica and told her to have an open mind. She now loves the show.

[Jon2]

Sci-Fi has been around since the 30s and is responsible for most of the technical advances in moviemaking used today but people who aren't fans of the genre always seem to dismiss it as fluff or something that's "just for kids"

Actually SF cinema has been around since the beginning of film history. Does the name Melies ring a bell?

However, you're right that SF gets no respect, but it's not just SF cinema. Written SF exists in its own literary ghetto as well.

I'm of a mind that it stems from certain sociological causes or roots that have no respect for (and may actually fear) things that are imaginative in nature.

[eedoon]

^ I agree. Lots of special effects used in the 30s are a direct descendant from Melies' expertise.

But anyway, back to the topic, I'm guessing because there's a lot of sci-fi and fantasy movie that is suck and campy - especially those made in the 50s and 60s. There are good ones such as The Day the Earth Stood Still and so, but they are so far in between.

[PopcornTreeCt]

I think its because Sci-Fi and Fantasy can either come out really good or really terrible. You got Star Wars, Matrix, Blade Runner on one hand and then on the other hand you got movies like Paycheck, Imposter, Serenity, etc.

Same goes with Fantasy you got Lord of the Rings and everything else.

[Kudama]

However, you're right that SF gets no respect, but it's not just SF cinema. Written SF exists in its own literary ghetto as well.

I'm of a mind that it stems from certain sociological causes or roots that have no respect for (and may actually fear) things that are imaginative in nature.

:up: props.

I couldn't phrase it better, but I'll try to finish second by agreeing 100%

[ScandalUMD]

Actually SF cinema has been around since the beginning of film history. Does the name Melies ring a bell?

However, you're right that SF gets no respect, but it's not just SF cinema. Written SF exists in its own literary ghetto as well.

I'm of a mind that it stems from certain sociological causes or roots that have no respect for (and may actually fear) things that are imaginative in nature.

Because it is wish-fulfillment for dweebs. In the same way that genre romance like "Pretty Woman" and "Bridget Jones" is about women's fantasies of being whisked off by a billionaire in a limo, even if they're a street-walking whore, sci-fi fulfills the dweeb fantasy of being a space-pilot laser ninja who fucks hot robot chicks.

There's good stuff, like "Lord of the Rings," that really invests itself in weaving a mythological tapestry to rival the classical tradition, and then you've got the entire rest of that genre, which is about ripping off Tolkien, making up stupid names and writing about how cool it would be to ride a dragon or some shit, and have wenches around who have to do what you say because you own them or something.

To be the person who reads fantasy novels is to live in the hell of being a nerd without being smart.

[Kudama]

^
Damn, dude. Get beat up by a lot of nerds in Jr. High?

[DodgingCars]

I think its because Sci-Fi and Fantasy can either come out really good or really terrible. You got Star Wars, Matrix, Blade Runner on one hand and then on the other hand you got movies like Paycheck, Imposter, Serenity, etc.

Same goes with Fantasy you got Lord of the Rings and everything else.

You obviously threw in Serenity to troll. It's fine that you didn't like it, but 81% on RT and 74 on Metacritic means it should be lumped with Blade Runner and Matrix, instead of Paycheck.

I think better examples are a lot of the craptastic Sci-fi B-movies from the 50s-era. I think left definately left a bad impression. Even some of the more serious sci-fi that came out in the 70s and 80s and such poor special effects that it looked campy and felt cheap.

I think there has definately been a swing towards the positive though. Movies like The Matrix and even Lord of the Rings have mainstream appeal.

[FRwL]

The fantastique genres (sci-fi, fantasy, horror) might not be the most critically acclaimed, but they are undoubtedly the most popular i would say. They always top polls and people's favorites here and many places i've seen.

[harrydoyle]

Doesn't get a lot of respect from whom? Field of Dreams doesn't get any respect from my girlfriend. Seems to me the film types you name get plenty of respect from plenty of people.

[The Bus]

Lord of the Rings is the only decent fantasy movie(s) I've seen. All the other ones (Willow, Labyrinth, Legend) are laughably awful.

[visitor Q]

Three words: Sci-Fi Channel

... at least, contemporarily.

[Jason]

Because it is wish-fulfillment for dweebs. In the same way that genre romance like "Pretty Woman" and "Bridget Jones" is about women's fantasies of being whisked off by a billionaire in a limo, even if they're a street-walking whore, sci-fi fulfills the dweeb fantasy of being a space-pilot laser ninja who fucks hot robot chicks.

There's good stuff, like "Lord of the Rings," that really invests itself in weaving a mythological tapestry to rival the classical tradition, and then you've got the entire rest of that genre, which is about ripping off Tolkien, making up stupid names and writing about how cool it would be to ride a dragon or some shit, and have wenches around who have to do what you say because you own them or something.

To be the person who reads fantasy novels is to live in the hell of being a nerd without being smart.

Tell us, oh great guru, how can we ever be cool like you? How can we shed our taped together glasses and corrective shoes and score with the really hot ladies?

[PopcornTreeCt]

You obviously threw in Serenity to troll. It's fine that you didn't like it, but 81% on RT and 74 on Metacritic means it should be lumped with Blade Runner and Matrix, instead of Paycheck.

I think better examples are a lot of the craptastic Sci-fi B-movies from the 50s-era. I think left definately left a bad impression. Even some of the more serious sci-fi that came out in the 70s and 80s and such poor special effects that it looked campy and felt cheap.

I think there has definately been a swing towards the positive though. Movies like The Matrix and even Lord of the Rings have mainstream appeal.

Um, no I threw in Serenity because the sci-fi, to me, is simply unoriginal, plain and boring. Much like stuff shown on the Sci-Fi channel 24/7. But you're right, everyone that doesn't like Serenity must be a troll.

[Suprmallet]

Because it is wish-fulfillment for dweebs. In the same way that genre romance like "Pretty Woman" and "Bridget Jones" is about women's fantasies of being whisked off by a billionaire in a limo, even if they're a street-walking whore, sci-fi fulfills the dweeb fantasy of being a space-pilot laser ninja who fucks hot robot chicks.

There's good stuff, like "Lord of the Rings," that really invests itself in weaving a mythological tapestry to rival the classical tradition, and then you've got the entire rest of that genre, which is about ripping off Tolkien, making up stupid names and writing about how cool it would be to ride a dragon or some shit, and have wenches around who have to do what you say because you own them or something.

While I think the post is a tad harsh, I agree that the reason a good portion of SF and fantasy is derided is because it's just wish fulfillment on a massive scale. What separates Great sci-fi from awful sci-fi? Usually the best sci-fi uses tales of advanced technology and far flung civilizations to make us think about the society we live in right now, here today. The best sci-fi is not escapist. For example, A Scanner Darkly and Children of Men. Both fantastic sci-fi films. Neither are happy or pretty or about wish-fulfillment. Then there's stuff like Star Wars, which clearly IS escapist, but Lucas was smart enough to include many archetypal myths in the OT, which gives it a grandiose feel that resonates with millions of people. The same holds true for LOTR.

Then you get stuff like Eragon, or The Last Mimzy, that give the genres a bad name. Or you get awful books like A Wrinkle In Time. Considering how larger than life the genres are, if a person has a bad experience once, they're less apt to try the genre again. Whereas people aren't really going to say "I'm never seeing another drama again!" if they see a drama they dislike.

[DodgingCars]

Um, no I threw in Serenity because the sci-fi, to me, is simply unoriginal, plain and boring. Much like stuff shown on the Sci-Fi channel 24/7. But you're right, everyone that doesn't like Serenity must be a troll.

No it's trolling because it was critically well-reviewed and has lots of fans and so my guess is it was purposely thrown out there as bait.

[Groucho]

Assuming he was trolling, isn't it fanning the flames to harp about it? Isn't that what a troll is looking for?

[Mr. Cinema]

No it's trolling because it was critically well-reviewed and has lots of fans and so my guess is it was purposely thrown out there as bait.
Why did it only make $38 million worldwide at the box office?

[DodgingCars]

Why did it only make $38 million worldwide at the box office?

Box office = quality?

[DodgingCars]

Assuming he was trolling, isn't it fanning the flames to harp about it? Isn't that what a troll is looking for?

Yes.

[Kudama]

While I think the post is a tad harsh, I agree that the reason a good portion of SF and fantasy is derided is because it's just wish fulfillment on a massive scale. What separates Great sci-fi from awful sci-fi? Usually the best sci-fi uses tales of advanced technology and far flung civilizations to make us think about the society we live in right now, here today. The best sci-fi is not escapist. For example, A Scanner Darkly and Children of Men. Both fantastic sci-fi films. Neither are happy or pretty or about wish-fulfillment. Then there's stuff like Star Wars, which clearly IS escapist, but Lucas was smart enough to include many archetypal myths in the OT, which gives it a grandiose feel that resonates with millions of people. The same holds true for LOTR.
Escapism and wish fullfillment.
You almost make these sound like bad things.

-BTW this is not directed at you or any one person, but was inspired by your words. (In fact I agree with the rest of your post. Very astute.)

When we are not actually at work that is what everyone on this board does. The very act of posting here is an escapist act. I would classify the following as just as, if not more escapist, than Sci Fi**

All movies that are not documentaries or educational
All books that are not documentaries or educational
All television shows that are not documentaries or educational
All video games that are not documentaries or educational (YACT! :p )
All porno

And the most escapist and wish fullfilling...

Sports spectatorship. Living vicariously through the acclomplishment of other real people. Talk about dweebish. -ohbfrank- Hey! Hey! Don't be like that. I was being sarcastic. :p
Watch all the sports you want. Just don't expect me to. People really freak out when I tell I don't follow sports. It has become a fucking societal obligation for godsake. I get the impression it may become legally mandatory in the near future. I didn't mean to turn this into a sports bashing post. That just came out.
( And my backspace button is broken.)

All I'm saying is bring on the escapism, the more the better, and wish fullfillment isn't evil for cryin' out loud. at worst it's a guilty pleasure.




**(I'm defending sci fi because most fantasy doesn't do it for me; I detest "whimsical". Not saying it's bad, just rubs me the wrong way.)

[Sex Fiend]

I'm of a mind that it stems from certain sociological causes or roots that have no respect for (and may actually fear) things that are imaginative in nature.

Jon, that's a good point, and I essentially agree. It is my experience that many people are indeed, shall we say, "imaginatively-challenged" and have a very difficult time relating to any aesthetic that isn't squarely contextualized in the mundane. The result of their discomfort is often to condemn such an aesthetic as 'juvenile,' 'escapist,' or otherwise mock it as an irrelevant form of expression.

Which is very sad in my opinion, as I can scarcely imagine living a life in which one cannot enjoy the simple pleasure of using one's imagination. I understand that many people are "wired" differently and probably wouldn't recognize what they are missing anyway, but it's still sad nonetheless.

[Suprmallet]

Escapism and wish fullfillment.
You almost make these sound like bad things.

-BTW this is not directed at you or any one person, but was inspired by your words. (In fact I agree with the rest of your post. Very astute.)

When we are not actually at work that is what everyone on this board does. The very act of posting here is an escapist act. I would classify the following as just as, if not more escapist, than Sci Fi**

All movies that are not documentaries or educational
All books that are not documentaries or educational
All television shows that are not documentaries or educational
All video games that are not documentaries or educational (YACT! :p )
All porno

And the most escapist and wish fullfilling...

Sports spectatorship. Living vicariously through the acclomplishment of other real people. Talk about dweebish. -ohbfrank- Hey! Hey! Don't be like that. I was being sarcastic. :p
Watch all the sports you want. Just don't expect me to. People really freak out when I tell I don't follow sports. It has become a fucking societal obligation for godsake. I get the impression it may become legally mandatory in the near future. I didn't mean to turn this into a sports bashing post. That just came out.
( And my backspace button is broken.)

All I'm saying is bring on the escapism, the more the better, and wish fullfillment isn't evil for cryin' out loud. at worst it's a guilty pleasure.




**(I'm defending sci fi because most fantasy doesn't do it for me; I detest "whimsical". Not saying it's bad, just rubs me the wrong way.)

Let me clarify my original post by saying I've been reading all manner of sci-fi books since I knew how to read. Hell, instead of reading story books to me as a young child before bed, my father read me sci-fi epics. So I have zero problem with science fiction. In fact, it's by far one of my favorite literary and cinematic genres. I've read and enjoyed plenty of escapist literature and seen escapist movies in a myriad of genres, so it's not a problem to me personally. But you can see how such a thing, when done in the outlandish style of sci-fi or fantasy, would be a turn off to Joe Sixpack who doesn't understand what spaceships and lasers have to do with him or why he should be watching a movie about fairies and elves? That was my point. I've read tons of excellent escapist sci-fi and plenty of terrible trying to be important sci-fi, so I'm not saying the only good works in the genre are by Philip K. Dick or anything like that.

P.S. I agree about sports. :D