I have been reading the ongoing discussions here for quite some time now and even went back to old threads from the last couple of months where people asked for recommendations. Yet, I decided to hear what the more savvy members have to say about Sony KDL-46XBR2 46" Bravia XBR 1080p LCD HDTV.
For a number of reasons I will be replacing a digital projector with a TV set (the decision has been made) and this is the TV we have decided on...I think!
Yet, seeing how many people seem to prefer plasma over LCD has me a bit uncertain. I ve done a far share of visits to our local ABT-Electronics and the SONY is the one set I keep going back to.
So, should I reconsider my choice and look into plasmas or should I just ignore the rest and go for it (the store has an ongoing deal until the end of March which is 18 months of no interest and no payments).
In my suite I rarely watch TV and will likely be using the TV, about 90%, for watching DVDs. No gaming here at all either!
Thank you for any recommendations/comments in advance.
Pro-B
leest3
03-20-07, 10:27 AM
IMO, that TV has the best picture quality out of any LCD I have seen in a store setting. But then I heard a lot of owners have clouding or uneven backlight issues. There's a thread on AVS forum about it.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748779
If you can, wait a little while. The new models should be rolling out soon, maybe they will have fixed the issues, and some wil have LED backlighting.
SoSpacey
03-20-07, 10:47 AM
What kind of price are you getting on that TV?
Sharp makes one model LCD that comes close to plasma in terms of black levels. It's the only one I would probably ever consider but it is >$3k.
Be careful as to viewing these televisions in a store. Most stores will calibrate the TY they want to sell best. So if they are making the biggest profit on 1080p LCDs, those will be calibrated best and other TVs "dumbed down".
I would try and find calibration settings over on AVS for this TV and a couple of others, including a plasma. Go into the store, recalibrate according to thsoe settings, and sit the same distance away from them as you will be at home.
dizzlle01
03-20-07, 04:55 PM
you can get the samsung at frys.com for about 2000. It retails for over 3k. Its the 4695. I have the sony and the clouding issue is not much of a problem. Its only seen when the screen is on a video mode, when the screen is black.
Sdallnct
03-20-07, 08:55 PM
I have been reading the ongoing discussions here for quite some time now and even went back to old threads from the last couple of months where people asked for recommendations. Yet, I decided to hear what the more savvy members have to say about Sony KDL-46XBR2 46" Bravia XBR 1080p LCD HDTV.
For a number of reasons I will be replacing a digital projector with a TV set (the decision has been made) and this is the TV we have decided on...I think!
Yet, seeing how many people seem to prefer plasma over LCD has me a bit uncertain. I ve done a far share of visits to our local ABT-Electronics and the SONY is the one set I keep going back to.
So, should I reconsider my choice and look into plasmas or should I just ignore the rest and go for it (the store has an ongoing deal until the end of March which is 18 months of no interest and no payments).
In my suite I rarely watch TV and will likely be using the TV, about 90%, for watching DVDs. No gaming here at all either!
Thank you for any recommendations/comments in advance.
Pro-B
Is the physical size of the set an issue? If not, I would consider the 50" Panasonic Plasma. Bigger set, less money. I have honestly not seen this particular LCD, but I have seen the Panny's well calibrated and are literally the best picture I have every seen by any display.
In addition to black levels, detail in those black levels and excellent color the plasmas have an almost 3-D look to them.
pro-bassoonist
03-20-07, 10:35 PM
First of all I would like to thank you all for the comments. I really DO APPRECIATE them as I am trying to decide and will likely do so in the next 3-4 days.
The deal that I am given on this set is:
18 months no interest and no payments! The price is down to 2900, quoted and agreed by the dealer.
The size is indeed an issue. I thought that a 50-inch set will be fine but after a few tweaks around my suite (I am very particular when it comes to design…) I am most certain 46 is as far as I could go. Anything bigger than that WILL become the focal point in the room overpowering everything else. Also for the record I will be sitting fairly close to this set…a couch and half away from it :)
Finally, which Panasonic 50inch Plasma are we talking about? As far as I know the ones currently on the market are not 1080, the Sony above is.
Again, thank you for the comments…
Pro-B
SoSpacey
03-21-07, 09:14 AM
First of all I would like to thank you all for the comments. I really DO APPRECIATE them as I am trying to decide and will likely do so in the next 3-4 days.
The deal that I am given on this set is:
18 months no interest and no payments! The price is down to 2900, quoted and agreed by the dealer.
The size is indeed an issue. I thought that a 50-inch set will be fine but after a few tweaks around my suite (I am very particular when it comes to design…) I am most certain 46 is as far as I could go. Anything bigger than that WILL become the focal point in the room overpowering everything else. Also for the record I will be sitting fairly close to this set…a couch and half away from it :)
Finally, which Panasonic 50inch Plasma are we talking about? As far as I know the ones currently on the market are not 1080, the Sony above is.
Again, thank you for the comments…
Pro-B
oh no. you have been brainwashed by the 1080p cult. we will have to try hard to deprogram you. it depends on how deeply the seed has been planted.
are there any messages you would like me to pass along to your friends and family?
Patman
03-21-07, 10:26 AM
No doubt, the Sony Bravia LCD sets looks great when the material is well-lit and in the daytime, but as soon as you start looking at the night time, or darkly-lit material, you'll be less impressed with the LCD sets (in general). I have yet to see a LCD set that had great black levels, and you just can't rely on well-lit material to show off the LCD sets for general viewing.
Sdallnct
03-21-07, 10:38 AM
First of all I would like to thank you all for the comments. I really DO APPRECIATE them as I am trying to decide and will likely do so in the next 3-4 days.
The deal that I am given on this set is:
18 months no interest and no payments! The price is down to 2900, quoted and agreed by the dealer.
The size is indeed an issue. I thought that a 50-inch set will be fine but after a few tweaks around my suite (I am very particular when it comes to design…) I am most certain 46 is as far as I could go. Anything bigger than that WILL become the focal point in the room overpowering everything else. Also for the record I will be sitting fairly close to this set…a couch and half away from it :)
Finally, which Panasonic 50inch Plasma are we talking about? As far as I know the ones currently on the market are not 1080, the Sony above is.
Again, thank you for the comments…
Pro-B
Dang it....I thought we had an intelligent conversation going on and then you through out the "but it's not 1080p" :sarcasm: (oh and just to be clear you are not using as a computer monitor are you?).
1st. If size is a limitation, size is a limitation. I LOVE the 46" size sets. And you have to decide if it is more important then $$ and overall picture quality.
2nd. I have been closely looking at a 46" LCD set. But for me, no way I would spend that kind of money on an LCD. I have been trying to find a deal on a 46" Westinghouse, which have been found in the $1,400 range. The problem is, you can now get a 50" Panasonic plasma that would be significantly better pq then the Westinghouse for around $1,700 with careful shopping. Now, I will fully admit to not having seen the sony set, but again...spending nearly $3,000 on an LCD puts up a "red flag" for me. I'm sure there are some awesome LCD's out there, and this may be one of them, I just haven't seen them and still would have a tough time believing they are twice as good of a picture as the Panny Plasma (since they are nearly twice the price).
3rd. To start your 1080p unbrainwashing, let me throw out the following:
-In a set this small your eyes simply cannot see the resolution of 1080p sitting at a reasonable distance (unless you are using as a computer monitor).
-Black levels, contrast and color accuracy are much more important factors then resolution. And black levels are generally the weakest on LCD's (but again I don't want to cast to many generalities, maybe the Sony has better blacks then the typical LCD).
4th. I don't want to talk you into anything. Buy a TV is a personal almost intimate thing. There are a zillion factors. You may not like the physical size of the 50" sets. You may not like the color of the box of one set or another. You may not like how one set looks from the side compared to another. You may think the speakers are to big on one set or another. I have no problem in someone making a decision on a set based on these non-picture quality aspects. But I would hope that every person got as many facts so that regardless of their decision they would feel good about it.
5th. I have seen many a sets of TV's set up correctly (no not in the biz), and the Panasonic Plasma is pretty much by far my favorite. I did get a chance the other day to see the Pioneer Elite Plasma that is 1080p. And yea at 18" the thing still looked pretty good. But at a reasonable distance, 6-7 feet I could not see the difference between it and their own 720p version. I even asked the sales guy why they didn't have the 1080p hanging right next to the 720p so people could see the difference. He smiled and said "we use to".
Sdallnct
03-21-07, 11:33 AM
I ran into this over at obesewallet,
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4986101
46" about $2,100. Might be worth a look if you really like that size.
pro-bassoonist
03-21-07, 03:31 PM
Dang it....I thought we had an intelligent conversation going on and then you through out the "but it's not 1080p" :sarcasm: (oh and just to be clear you are not using as a computer monitor are you?).
That may well be the case here! I have not owned an LCD set so I do not know how well it may or may not look at home.
Here are a few facts however:
I went back to ABT and then back to BestBuy to see what is the best quote(s) they would give me. It seem like we are gravitating around the 2900-3000 mark (depending on the rep). With this in mind I must say this (whether it sounds intelligent to you or not it is my experience so far):
The only other TV that certainly has me gasping is the Elite HD1 which ABT has on display, in a darkened room, in comparison with the Sony. Today I spent nearly 30min. tweaking the Sony and as far as I can tell wihtout having it at home the picture quality is outstanding.
You might very well be right that once i hook up a DVD player at home I would be upset with the blacks but the Plasma Panni that I have been checking out at ABT isn't that impressive either (could be calibration).
Furthermore, I asked before which Panni in particular has been suggested above? Could you link the size and model for me?
Furthermore, yes, I do like the outside design of the Sony. You believe that it is a personal thing and I agree, it is a great design which will match my suite and the decor I have (now, let's avoid in advance the jokes that I am buying a piece of furniture to match my suite, I am not, I am looking for the best all-around deal, both in terms of design and presentation).
A friend has at his home a Plasma Panni 50 inch (could that be the one you suggested above) and I am definitely NOT impressed by the motion reprodution. I see blurs! This kills off the deal for me regardless of HOW solid the blacks are! Now, this is my experience and I could well be off with it. For what it matters though his set was calibrated by a professional and I simply would not settle for such TV image. Plain and Simple!!
I am not going to be using the Sony as a computer monitor! No gaming either! Mostly sports and films (DVD-produced).
Finally, I see that a few of you have not seen the Bravia...that throws the whole argument that we don't have an intelligent discussion off. I was very specific in my request for info on the Bravia not on a general discussion of LCD vs. Plasma (I have followed the other threads on this subject). Hope this does not sound too brash...I am simply looking for honest opinions on this specific telly.
Money is indeed an issue for me so yes I am shopping for the best deal on the best possible TV set that I could get for or less 3000$.
Once again, thanks for the comments...they DO help me a lot to make a final decision!
Pro-B
SoSpacey
03-21-07, 03:39 PM
your friend doesnt have it calibrated properly.
how far will you be sitting from your tv?
pro-bassoonist
03-21-07, 03:48 PM
I am going to be as precise as possible:
From the couch to the TV there are 9 (nine) steps distance: I wear shoes size nine. :)
The strangest description I have ever given!!
Pro-B
Sdallnct
03-21-07, 04:11 PM
That may well be the case here! I have not owned an LCD set so I do not know how well it may or may not look at home.
Here are a few facts however:
I went back to ABT and then back to BestBuy to see what is the best quote(s) they would give me. It seem like we are gravitating around the 2900-3000 mark (depending on the rep). With this in mind I must say this (whether it sounds intelligent to you or not it is my experience so far):
The only other TV that certainly has me gasping is the Elite HD1 which ABT has on display, in a darkened room, in comparison with the Sony. Today I spent nearly 30min. tweaking the Sony and as far as I can tell without having it at home the picture quality is outstanding.
You might very well be right that once i hook up a DVD player at home I would be upset with the blacks but the Plasma Panni that I have been checking out at ABT isn't that impressive either (could be calibration).
Furthermore, I asked before which Panni in particular has been suggested above? Could you link the size and model for me?
Furthermore, yes, I do like the outside design of the Sony. You believe that it is a personal thing and I agree, it is a great design which will match my suite and the decor I have (now, let's avoid in advance the jokes that I am buying a piece of furniture to match my suite, I am not, I am looking for the best all-around deal, both in terms of design and presentation).
A friend has at his home a Plasma Panni 50 inch (could that be the one you suggested above) and I am definitely NOT impressed by the motion reprodution. I see blurs! This kills off the deal for me regardless of HOW solid the blacks are! Now, this is my experience and I could well be off with it. For what it matters though his set was calibrated by a professional and I simply would not settle for such TV image. Plain and Simple!!
I am not going to be using the Sony as a computer monitor! No gaming either! Mostly sports and films (DVD-produced).
Finally, I see that a few of you have not seen the Bravia...that throws the whole argument that we don't have an intelligent discussion off. I was very specific in my request for info on the Bravia not on a general discussion of LCD vs. Plasma (I have followed the other threads on this subject). Hope this does not sound too brash...I am simply looking for honest opinions on this specific telly.
Money is indeed an issue for me so yes I am shopping for the best deal on the best possible TV set that I could get for or less 3000$.
Once again, thanks for the comments...they DO help me a lot to make a final decision!
Pro-B
Well it is obvious you have thought through this and I applaud you for it. And I'm much more willing to take your arguments on preferring the Sony over say the Panasonic Plasma's since you don't seem to be to hung up on the 1080p (not that you need me to take your arguments). IMHO, 1080p should not be a factor at all in this size set (unless using as a computer monitor), let alone at the distance you are sitting. However, if you happen to like the set, and it happens to have 1080p, no harm (expect for the possible increase in $$).
The debate overall is the difference between plasma and LCD. Not 1080p v. 720p. What many are saying including myself, is that the panny plasma at 720p will offer a better picture then most anything out there at a similar size, regardless of resolution.
Right now all the consumer Panasonic Plasmas use the same plasma. They differ only on non-picture quality issues such as having a cable card, or SD card slot, etc. AFAIK there is no picture quality difference between any of them. Right now they have a 42" in 2-3 versions which is in the grand range and 50" in 2-3 versions that are in the $1,700 range. These have dropped dramatically in the 12-18 months. The 50" version was north of $3,000 not that long ago!
Also, as you get into these nicer sets when we start talking picture quality, they are all very close. I would be shocked if you were "disappointed" in the pq of the Sony once you got it home. And without side by side comparison, it may be tough to see the difference. Plus while a plasma may have better black levels, LCD's are brighter. So if you have a bright room, LCD still may be the choice. I have a DLP projector in my media room that has solid if not great black levels. I also have a 26" LCD in the room next door in my bar. I can easily see the poor black levels on the LCD. Now, I'm not comparing it to your Sony by any means. My LCD is a cheapish off brand. I will give it this, it is VERY bright. Even with 4 windows and 4 skylights I can easily watch during the day.
Having said all that, I 100% agree there is more to buying a TV then just pq. If the only thing that were important was pq, I'm be suggesting a CRT RP tv! We all balance things for our needs including cost, how the set looks even turned off. Like I say, I love the Panasonic 50" plasma, but I'm afraid it will take over my room and the room is very bright during the day (but we don't watch much during the day). So I haven't pulled the trigger. But I still might!
jdpatri
03-21-07, 04:45 PM
FWIW, I'm a big fan of the Sony Bravia set. I've done my share of viewing and researching because I'm replacing my old 36" Sony Wega CRT behemoth within the next few months. I have concentrated my search on LCDs and Rear Projections because I do a fair bit of gaming. I like the Panasonic Plasmas but because of burn-in concerns they haven't really entered the equation. However, for a 46-50" LCD screen <$3,000, I don't know that you could do better than the 46XBR2. The Sonys handle blacks very well for an LCD.
I'm probably going to go with an SXRD because I have the space for a 50-55". If I didn't have the space, I'd certainly be looking at the 46XBR2.
Sdallnct
03-21-07, 08:23 PM
I like the Panasonic Plasmas but because of burn-in concerns they haven't really entered the equation.
While I still think all should be "aware" of the unlikely but possible burn in of Plasma's, it is much harder to burn in a modern plasma then one might think. With improvements in the technology and some simple, basic, easy precautions (like being careful the first 100 hours, not running in torch mode), I certainly wouldn't worry about it.
Burn-in on plasma TVs a myth?
We have all heard it before. If you leave your TV or computer screen on the same image for too long the image will "burn" into the screen. This will cause you to see a ghost of the image that was on the screen for too long. We now know that our new tubes and flat screen computer monitors do not really do this any longer. But what about plasma TVs?
If you are reading this you are considering the purchase of a $2,000 to $10,000 plasma television and the thought of burn in on something that costs as much as a used car does not sit well with you.
I am happy to say you can rest easy. Pioneer Electronics put plasma TVs to the test and had some pretty interesting results. They found that burn in can occur on modern plasma TVs but the condition is only temporary. They subjected plasma televisions to 48 hours of a video game on pause and found that there was indeed burn in. The really cool part about this is that to fix the burn in they simply played a movie on the display for 24 hours to clear the image.
In real life none of us would ever leave our plasma display on for 48 hours with a paused video game image but it is nice to know that it will not mean the end of your TV!
Link to the report: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/273087528Pioneer DTV White Paper - FINAL.pdf
jdpatri
03-22-07, 02:34 PM
Wow. Good to know. Even the guys at AVSforum still tout plasma burn-in as a legitimate concern.
At the same time, however, I must curse you because it was an easy way to narrow my TV search. :) I do still think, however, that the SXRDs may be the best picture/size for the money.
pro-bassoonist
03-31-07, 01:55 PM
a small update (for those who care...)
The TV was brought down to 2800$ with a 3-year no interest and only one year warranty. I did my best to convince the powers to be (the POWER to be) that an HD-DVD player is also needed but was told that the earliest we could get one is New Year's.
I did manage to convince her that a new upconverting DVD player is needed so I decided to run one last check with the tech guys here.
Should I consider getting a new Oppo player with a set of HDMI cables (I currently have two DVD players, one Phillips 727 and an older Cyberhome 500) or is there a different player that would match this TV better?
Also, I looked quickly at www.monoprice.com ....any specific HDMI cables I should look for (there are a few options)...??
Thank you in advance for your suggestions/recommendations.
Pro-B
edit:
it seems like if you order directly from Oppo an HDMI cable comes included. So the only portion of this question that remains valid is the top one? :)
Buy: