GDC 2007: "The Wii is a Piece of S***!" (Not a Thread Crap)
03-08-07, 03:46 PM
#1
Moderator
Thread Starter
GDC 2007: "The Wii is a Piece of S***!" (Not a Thread Crap)
http://wii.ign.com/articles/771/771051p1.html
I see this as nothing more than a rant and one man's opinion.
Granted the Wii is underpowered when compared to the PS3 and XBox 360, but I don't even think that they are in the same league. While the Wii might have the label of being 'next gen' I don't consider it that way.
Besides, I happen to like "fun" games.
One of Spore's developers rants about Nintendo's "two GameCubes stuck together with duct tape."
March 7, 2007 - During a session at GDC this morning entitled "Burning Mad - Game Publishers Rant," time was taken about half way through to allow developers a chance to spew their own rants. One speaker, Chris Hecker, currently working on Spore at Maxis, took the opportunity to call out Nintendo for not taking games seriously.
"The Wii is a piece of s***!" Hecker began his talk, which was called "Fear of a Wii Planet." He blasted a few bars of Public Enemy to set the tone. Hecker said the Wii is nothing more than two GameCubes stuck together with duct tape, and that the console isn't powerful enough to provide the next-gen experience he has been waiting for.
Although he stated the system is "severely underpowered," Hecker noted that he wasn't simply referring to the Wii's graphical capabilities. He wants to spend a console's CPU making games more intelligent, and he has found the Wii doesn't have the power to process things like complicated AI.
Hecker also took Nintendo to task for not taking games seriously enough. "It's not clear to me that Nintendo gives a s*** about games as an art form," he said. To illustrate his point, he searched for references to games as art on all three console manufacturers web sites. While he found numerous such references on both the official PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 sites, Wii.com had none at all. He then shared quotes from executives at Sony and Microsoft talking about games as a serious artistic medium, and then a quote from a Nintendo executive saying the company only wanted to make "fun" games.
March 7, 2007 - During a session at GDC this morning entitled "Burning Mad - Game Publishers Rant," time was taken about half way through to allow developers a chance to spew their own rants. One speaker, Chris Hecker, currently working on Spore at Maxis, took the opportunity to call out Nintendo for not taking games seriously.
"The Wii is a piece of s***!" Hecker began his talk, which was called "Fear of a Wii Planet." He blasted a few bars of Public Enemy to set the tone. Hecker said the Wii is nothing more than two GameCubes stuck together with duct tape, and that the console isn't powerful enough to provide the next-gen experience he has been waiting for.
Although he stated the system is "severely underpowered," Hecker noted that he wasn't simply referring to the Wii's graphical capabilities. He wants to spend a console's CPU making games more intelligent, and he has found the Wii doesn't have the power to process things like complicated AI.
Hecker also took Nintendo to task for not taking games seriously enough. "It's not clear to me that Nintendo gives a s*** about games as an art form," he said. To illustrate his point, he searched for references to games as art on all three console manufacturers web sites. While he found numerous such references on both the official PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 sites, Wii.com had none at all. He then shared quotes from executives at Sony and Microsoft talking about games as a serious artistic medium, and then a quote from a Nintendo executive saying the company only wanted to make "fun" games.
Granted the Wii is underpowered when compared to the PS3 and XBox 360, but I don't even think that they are in the same league. While the Wii might have the label of being 'next gen' I don't consider it that way.
Besides, I happen to like "fun" games.
03-08-07, 03:53 PM
#2
DVD Talk Legend
I read that earlier. Pretty funny. This generation is great because Nintendo's offering is so different. No duct tape on my Wii that I could find. It does look pretty tiny in the presence of my PS3, however, all I have played lately on that is Symphony of the Night and Flow. A PSone game and a tech demo. Tough competition for the Wii.
03-08-07, 04:01 PM
#4
Banned by request
It is interesting because this guy is trying to develop Spore, one of the most anticipated games of the year, for the system. Sadly, as opposed to being any convincing tirade against the Wii, to me it says Spore won't be worth buying on it, because the developer cares more about complaining than finding solutions.
03-08-07, 04:03 PM
#5
Retired
There's a pretty long thread on this on CAG.
As I said there, I don't really care about this guys comments for two reasons.
1. I don't care about AI. The genre's I like most are stuff like platformers, puzzle games and japanese RPGs. They don't need fancy AI. On top of that, I think its far to early to say the Wii can't do good AI. There's no reason that can't do decent AI and just keep the graphics at GC level rather than wasting power for the minute improvements the Wii could make.
2. I'm not big on the whole games as art spiel. I just don't think the medium lends itself well to art. Games can clearly have a good art style (like Okami etc.) but that's at best on par with "decorative" art (i.e. simple paintings of flowers, decorative pillows etc.).
And the medium could have the potential to do real art (i.e. something design to provoke specific emotions), but its just not likely IMO given the nature of the industry. Games are created collectively by large teams most of the time (hard to do art in groups), they cost a lot to make so game makers are copying what's popular rather than doing art, it's to risky for publishers to take a chance on true artsy games and so on.
In a similar vain, given all these limitations the talent artists who want to be creative are more apt to be driven to be painters, sculpters, film makers, poets, novelists etc. i.e. to mediums that are more conducive to art both naturally and from a business standpoint.
Also, being so highly interactive is hard to be art by my definition. I think art needs to be conveying some emotion that the artist is trying to get across. Not just be something that is intended to be random and invoke something different in everyone who looks at it. Yes that's abstract "art"....but don't get me started on that
.. 
Finally, I just don't care as I don't want my games to be art. I don't want games to move me, emotionally exhaust me etc. even if they could eventually reach that level. Though I love games and spend WAY too much time and money on them, they are really nothing more to me than simple FUN. A nice way to zone out and relax after a long day in the real world.
When I want an emotional experience, I'm going to pick up a book, pop in a movie etc. I can't see myself ever turning to games for my "art" needs.
So in sum, to make a long rant short. I don't give a fuck about the Wii being able to do art, and honestly, even for those that do I think you're much more likely to see "artsy" games on the Wii than on the 360 or PS3 where game development costs are even higher due to the focus on realistic graphics, online content etc and where Sony and MS are going to be in a pissing match seeing who can throwout the most realistic FPS and racing games.
As I said there, I don't really care about this guys comments for two reasons.
1. I don't care about AI. The genre's I like most are stuff like platformers, puzzle games and japanese RPGs. They don't need fancy AI. On top of that, I think its far to early to say the Wii can't do good AI. There's no reason that can't do decent AI and just keep the graphics at GC level rather than wasting power for the minute improvements the Wii could make.
2. I'm not big on the whole games as art spiel. I just don't think the medium lends itself well to art. Games can clearly have a good art style (like Okami etc.) but that's at best on par with "decorative" art (i.e. simple paintings of flowers, decorative pillows etc.).
And the medium could have the potential to do real art (i.e. something design to provoke specific emotions), but its just not likely IMO given the nature of the industry. Games are created collectively by large teams most of the time (hard to do art in groups), they cost a lot to make so game makers are copying what's popular rather than doing art, it's to risky for publishers to take a chance on true artsy games and so on.
In a similar vain, given all these limitations the talent artists who want to be creative are more apt to be driven to be painters, sculpters, film makers, poets, novelists etc. i.e. to mediums that are more conducive to art both naturally and from a business standpoint.
Also, being so highly interactive is hard to be art by my definition. I think art needs to be conveying some emotion that the artist is trying to get across. Not just be something that is intended to be random and invoke something different in everyone who looks at it. Yes that's abstract "art"....but don't get me started on that
.. Finally, I just don't care as I don't want my games to be art. I don't want games to move me, emotionally exhaust me etc. even if they could eventually reach that level. Though I love games and spend WAY too much time and money on them, they are really nothing more to me than simple FUN. A nice way to zone out and relax after a long day in the real world.
When I want an emotional experience, I'm going to pick up a book, pop in a movie etc. I can't see myself ever turning to games for my "art" needs.
So in sum, to make a long rant short. I don't give a fuck about the Wii being able to do art, and honestly, even for those that do I think you're much more likely to see "artsy" games on the Wii than on the 360 or PS3 where game development costs are even higher due to the focus on realistic graphics, online content etc and where Sony and MS are going to be in a pissing match seeing who can throwout the most realistic FPS and racing games.
03-08-07, 04:25 PM
#7
DVD Talk Hero
I think all of us want games that are artistic and not at all fun. Bring them on, I can't wait!
03-08-07, 04:40 PM
#8
Suspended
So develop for a console that allows for your bizarro universe art games. Two consoles out of three that mention "games as art" should be fine. Let me and the elderly enjoy our Wiis.
03-08-07, 04:54 PM
#9
DVD Talk Hero
For Adult forum fans, there's an "art" and "Wii" joke in here somewhere.
So many people have ripped on the Wii's graphics - is there no one that understands that, in some cases, the graphics are the least important part of a game?
The Wii is the first video game system my parents have wanted to play since Tetris on my NES and Pilotwings on the SNES. And it's the first system my parents have EVER told me I HAVE to buy. If that doesn't say something, I don't know what does.
So many people have ripped on the Wii's graphics - is there no one that understands that, in some cases, the graphics are the least important part of a game?
The Wii is the first video game system my parents have wanted to play since Tetris on my NES and Pilotwings on the SNES. And it's the first system my parents have EVER told me I HAVE to buy. If that doesn't say something, I don't know what does.
Last edited by Draven; 03-08-07 at 04:57 PM.
03-08-07, 05:03 PM
#10
DVD Talk Legend
My question is why wasn't this an issue until now? Where was all the bitching about the PS2, GameCube and Xbox being pieces of shit? Now that there's actually a gap between current system it's all of a sudden a problem? How come one of the best AI systems I can actively remember in a video game was on the NES with a whopping 1.79 MHz CPU and this guy has issues with the Wii?
Honestly, the fact that this guy's statement is a headline on EVERY game site and on every game forum shows what a sad state the entire gaming world has become where these kind of Paris Hilton desperate-for-attention "celebrity" antics garner so much attention.
Honestly, the fact that this guy's statement is a headline on EVERY game site and on every game forum shows what a sad state the entire gaming world has become where these kind of Paris Hilton desperate-for-attention "celebrity" antics garner so much attention.
03-08-07, 05:23 PM
#11
DVD Talk Hero
I love the fact that this guy's resume before Spore is "worked on a game based on rock climbing... that never even came out." Though I'm sure it would've been the most artistic, least fun rock climbing game ever.
03-08-07, 05:24 PM
#12
Retired
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
Now that there's actually a gap between current system it's all of a sudden a problem?
People bitching about "lack" of power last gen aren't going to be heard because all the consoles had this lack. Now that only one system has this problem it gives people more cause to bitch and more chances to be heard I guess.
But I guess it makes some sense. I've backed off of my "I don't care about graphics" stance a little bit after playing stuff like Gears of War and coming back to stuff like Zelda or Wiisports. But in the end of the day, gameplay is still king and I'd still rank Zelda above Gears as I had more fun with it.
I just don't buy that they need this extra power for AI. As you note, there are plenty of old games with pretty good AI, and theirs plenty of shitty AI in 360 games. I couldn't count the number of times in a single play through of Gears that I had enemies walk right past me, or that we were able to walk right up to enemies (from their front) and chainsaw them with no effort to move on their part.
The extra power is going more for shiny graphics than AI. I'm sure the power can help with AI some, but not enough for it to be this crippling difference that makes this guys dream AI absolutely unfeasible on the Wii.
03-08-07, 05:29 PM
#13
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
games are art now? When that happen?
I don't play games to be enlightened or impressed. I play games to well, have fun.
I don't play games to be enlightened or impressed. I play games to well, have fun.
Last edited by squidget; 03-08-07 at 05:31 PM.
03-08-07, 08:37 PM
#14
DVD Talk Godfather
Canned apology already in the bag. Sounds like someone more important than him put their foot on his neck.
03-08-07, 11:14 PM
#15
Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Canned apology already in the bag. Sounds like someone more important than him put their foot on his neck.
Can't wait to see what Penny Arcade says about this tomorrow.
03-09-07, 12:23 AM
#17
Retired
CAG= www.cheapassgamer.com
There's a thread on this in the Wii forum there. I'd post a link but last I tried direct links to CAG threads weren't working for some reason.
There's a thread on this in the Wii forum there. I'd post a link but last I tried direct links to CAG threads weren't working for some reason.
03-09-07, 12:59 AM
#19
DVD Talk Hero
The way I see the Wii is that it's intended target audience isn't necessarily the same as the PS3 and 360.
The PS3 and 360 seem designed for the hardcore gamer in mind, with processing power and advanced graphics capabilities.
The Wii seems geared more toward kids and casual gamers.
There are three competing platforms (four if you still want to include the PS2, which seems to still have quite a bit of life in it). Is it so bad that they try to carve out niches for themselves?
The PS3 and 360 seem designed for the hardcore gamer in mind, with processing power and advanced graphics capabilities.
The Wii seems geared more toward kids and casual gamers.
There are three competing platforms (four if you still want to include the PS2, which seems to still have quite a bit of life in it). Is it so bad that they try to carve out niches for themselves?
03-09-07, 01:02 AM
#20
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
I have played the Wii as well as seen people play it, and in my opinion it is rather silly. And a little pathetic. People should actually go out and enjoy some real tennis rather than play a miserable imitation of it walled up in their living rooms. Swinging the controller like a sword in Zelda? I enjoyed playing swords like that when I was four. 
I've lost a lot of the interest I've had in gaming myself. I was sure I was going to buy a Wii, and now I plan to pick one up towards the end of its life cycle on the cheap and go back and play the games I missed out on. My next gen life is going to be 360 & DS only for the near future. But I think it's silly for the guy to knock the system for it's known short comings without mentioning it's advantages.
03-09-07, 07:19 AM
#21
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 3,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by boredsilly
Why play Tekken when you can go learn kungfu
Originally Posted by boredsilly
Why play tetris when there are Legos and building blocks out there or Jenga
Originally Posted by boredsilly
Why play madden, go outside and play football
Originally Posted by boredsilly
Why play Virtual Tennis when...
03-09-07, 07:35 AM
#22
DVD Talk Hero
I certainly wouldn't call most Wii games sophisticated, but I think they fill a similar niche to party games like Taboo and Charades. Sure, it's a little childish, but the whole point is to have fun, get "out of yourself" and, at times, make a fool out of yourself. And there will always be the one guy at the party who's a little stuck up and refuses to participate... 
There is also room for games as an artform too (though sadly this seemingly will never get recognized by the majority of people... see Roger Ebert). But to criticize the Wii for being fun and then to lift up the other next-gen systems for being artistic? I love my 360 (I have less love for my PS3 at the moment) but I would struggle to find even a handful of games that I would consider "artistic." And to use a count of the number of times their own website uses the word "art" as a measure? I bet Sony would love for everyone to consider Genji II a work of art, and have no problem boasting about it on their sit, but it doesn't make it so.
Sure, Nintendo does it's fair share of recycling franchises with little to no improvements (Pokemon, anyone?) but they do care about making great games.
There is also room for games as an artform too (though sadly this seemingly will never get recognized by the majority of people... see Roger Ebert). But to criticize the Wii for being fun and then to lift up the other next-gen systems for being artistic? I love my 360 (I have less love for my PS3 at the moment) but I would struggle to find even a handful of games that I would consider "artistic." And to use a count of the number of times their own website uses the word "art" as a measure? I bet Sony would love for everyone to consider Genji II a work of art, and have no problem boasting about it on their sit, but it doesn't make it so.
Sure, Nintendo does it's fair share of recycling franchises with little to no improvements (Pokemon, anyone?) but they do care about making great games.
03-09-07, 07:40 AM
#23
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
Well, I agree entirely with the guy. I have played the Wii as well as seen people play it, and in my opinion it is rather silly. And a little pathetic. People should actually go out and enjoy some real tennis rather than play a miserable imitation of it walled up in their living rooms. Swinging the controller like a sword in Zelda? I enjoyed playing swords like that when I was four.
I'll just leave the two children under 3 in bed at 10 at night and get a few other guys to go play some tennis or some golf in the 40 degree weather on a work night. <--- crosses fingers. I hope there are some street lights.
03-09-07, 07:58 AM
#25
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
The PS3 and 360 seem designed for the hardcore gamer in mind, with processing power and advanced graphics capabilities.
I consider the hardcore gamer the person looking at all three systems.. The PS3 and 360 obviously offering amazing visual experiences for "safe" genres (with the 360 excelling in online games) and the Wii offering obviously the new controller but likely more risky ventures given the lower development and publishing costs.
