Rypro 525

I read Jamie S. Rich's DVD review of Babel at http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=26527 and...

I got a technical question. Are the subtitles for forgien parts burned in or player generated?

The Running Man

Player generated.

Also the reviewer has pretty much assured me I will avoid all his reviews from the future.

Shannon Nutt

Why? Because he disliked the movie? He's not alone. I thought BABEL was pretty over-rated/reviewed myself. I've talked to others who think it is downright horrible (although I personally think it's so/so - liked the Japanese stuff, thought the rest was dismissable).

project86

Haha, dude, I was the exact opposite. I wanted to know how the brad pitt/wife story was going, I could care less about 30 minutes of a asian deaf/mute chick trying to get laid.

Shannon Nutt

I guess I have a weakness for scantily-clad Asian girls.

The Running Man

No. It's his comments.

Aside from the totally unnecessary fling at Crash, which apparently has become the "in" thing since it's Oscar win to bash on it and prefer the crap feature Brokeback Mountain to prove you are really in the know (and it's boring as all hell to continue reading the same corny comments), he revels with the first sentence information that the movie only tells you about an hour in. I don't care if it's not the most earth shattering news or if other lesser reviewers have done so, if the film decides to wait until later to give you information then that should be respected.

And the major thing is his insistence in pondering what was the point of the movie and that it had no point. I can care less about what someone thought of the movie, and in this case how simple minded reviewers and critics have become saying that's Crash-like just because it had multiple storylines despite the fact that the director's two previous films were done in that structure before Crash, but to say that the movie had no point is just bad critiquing.

The movie's theme was miscommunication. Too many reviews have said it's "we are all connected". No. It's about miscommunication. The movie goes to different places around the world to show such things and it was why the movie was called "Babel" not "We are the world".

Josh Z

Saying you can care less implies that you care a lot now. Clearly you do care, or you wouldn't be making such a fuss over this review.

The Running Man

No...I can care less about what someone thought of the movie means it's not whether or not the reviewer liked the movie, it's their reasons behind that.

Poor wording on my part.

And no, I am not making "such a fuss" over the review.

morph06

Discussions like this make me want to kill myself

The Running Man

Err..don't do it...or something.

KOROVAMILK

The intellect of some of you astounds me... This movie was brilliant and the Japanese story is arguably the most touching and inspiring segment of the movie... The ambiguity of the stories used with a vastness of quiet moments were extremely powerful to create an atmosphere for the audience to put themselves into the film. However, this tends to alienate the majority audience whose MO is spoon fed predictability... For the analytical mind, this movie will be a different experience each time it is viewed and will gain a new level of understanding.

Saxofonix

Anyway, the DVD Talk review has piqued my interest even more in seeing this now.
But I wonder if it will be as overhyped and dull as Syriana.

The Running Man

Gee, I missed the joke there Saxofonix.

Mind explaining it?

BravesMG

So unless someone feels the same way about Babel, you question their intellect? I thought it was boring and pretentious, and the "vastness of quiet moments" translated to me as "almost fucking sleep inducing."

siegfried

I haven't seen "Babel" yet so I can't really comment, but here is another review from DVD Beaver:
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews28/babel.htm

directed by Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu
USA 2006


Human interconnectivity is a legitimate theme explored with subtlety, wit, and genuine insight by thoughtful directors such as Krzysztof Kieslowski (The Double Life of Veronique, Trois Couleurs) and Stephen Gaghan (Syriana). Unfortunately, this theme is also the driving factor of pandering, clichéd groan-inducers such as Traffic, Crash, and Babel. (I know that Gaghan also wrote Traffic, but Traffic is not as good as Syriana.) Movies like Traffic, Crash, and Babel are content with declaring that we are all related to each other somehow, and that’s really all that they have to say about life. On the other hand, movies like The Double Life of Veronique, Trois Couleurs, and Syriana take note of human interconnectivity and move on to other serious matters.

Movies like Traffic, Crash, and Babel (ab)use weighty topics and turn them into bad jokes. Oh, look, the drug czar’s daughter sells her body for drugs. Oh, look, the possibly racist white cop saves a black woman. Oh, look, a deaf girl is so alienated from the world that she forces her dentist and a policeman to touch her breasts and crotch. Just because a writer puts his characters through a lot of pain and grief doesn’t mean that a movie is automatically “dramatic” or “important”. Traffic, Crash, and Babel are what I would call “emotional porn”. Oh, look how mightily they’re suffering! All those tears are never-ending money shots.

It is especially galling to see a “high-minded” movie like Babel resort to sexist stereotypes about Japanese schoolgirls. Japanese schoolgirls don’t wear skirts as short as the ones on display in this movie. Plus, is it really necessary to have Rinko Kikuchi standing naked on a high-rise balcony after already showing that her character feels cold standing naked indoors? Yes, I don’t know Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu personally, but it seems like the director is as much a product of Latin America’s male-oriented machismo culture as the next Hispanic guy.

Other problems abound. Babel is one of those misguided “tourist” movies that tries to pretend otherwise. It is painfully apparent that Gonzalez does not even have an incipient understanding of Japan, Japanese culture, and Japanese people, but he tries to make it seem like his movie is “authentic”. This is in contrast to the approach that Sofia Coppola took with Lost in Translation; Coppola made the movie from the perspective of an outsider, which she is, instead of pretending that she knew exactly what it was that makes the Japanese tick.

Like Traffic, Babel has nothing substantive to say about social issues. Other than indicating that border controls and illegal immigration are problems without easy solutions, all Gonzalez really does is try to make everyone feel bad about the way that Mexicans are treated by American authorities and the law. While building a wall and having vigilantes hunt down illegal crossers are bad ideas, it is actually sensible and not “wrong” for a country to try to safeguard its boundary lines.

As my friend and fellow DVD reviewer John J. Puccio wrote, the real theme of Babel is dumbness. Only dumb kids would fire a gun at a bus for no reason. Only dumb parents would go to an economically-depressed and socially-repressed country like Morocco to try to feel better about losing a child. Only dumb nannies would try to take other peoples’ kids on cross-border trips. Only dumb girls would make crude sexual advances at inopportune times.

There is nothing wrong with making a movie about human interconnectivity. However, the approach taken by movies like Traffic, Crash, and Babel is, as according to my good friend John J. Puccio, dumbness.

The Running Man

The only "dumbness" is in that review.

Kids do dumb things because they don't know better. Not because they are "dumb".

A married couple taking a trip to achieve something is not "dumb".

The nanny taking the kids to Mexico was not the "dumb" part.

The movie is not saying ALL Japanese school girls where short skirts and it is not because a girl is "dumb" that she makes sexual advances.

That review actually impresses me. It's one of the stupidest and most insulting reviews I have ever come across for any movie.

Slumbering Fist

I usually think of myself as a heartless bastard, but seeing how much I disagree with both Jamie and that DVD Beaver review... I guess I’m just an old softie because I found Babel pretty moving. Perfect? No. But, as a fan of his other films, I got what I expected.

Both reviews seem to dig at it being an ultimately hollow "message movie." I actually think all three of Iñárritu's films have shown that he's clearly concerned with the theme of human connectivity and grand emotion- thats his main priority- and not some kind of ultimate mission statement. Each of his films are sort of matter of fact and a tad frayed when it comes to weighty commentary. If one comes along, its all gravy, but I dont think that is what he's aiming for as a film maker.

Shannon Nutt

Continuing to debate this and not accepting that like-minded bright people CAN disagree = Dumb.

eXcentris

And only dumb reviewers with the narrow-minded mindset of a fencepost would make such innane comments and keep mentionning "Crash" every chance they get in their "review" of Babel.

Lucasthucus

I thought the film was great. It provoked great questions. We're all trying, sometimes foolishly, to connect with each other on some level--sometimes those actions are irrational, sometimes violent; almost always emotionally-charged. Consider why the the Americans are in Morrocco. To have some time alone. So why did they need to go to Morrocco? Because they simply don't know how to reconnect. But it's troubling that they have to go to Morroco to do it--this reveals the depth of their issue, not just in relation to eachother, but the world. They're tourists. Moreover, I don't get the impression that these parents even understand their relationship with regard to their children. When Pitt's character promises he'll never leave the children, it was obvious to me that neither of the parents were actually WITH their children--their inability to communicate with eachother, or understand themselves in relation to the world or even their family, is the crux of the picture. Consider that they also employ a woman illegally, probably with full knowledge of this--believe me, this is not an uncommon situation--they're taking advantage of her. This film is full of insight into the American family's inability to relate to the world, and of course, that's just a small part of Babel. I think that it's got a major point to make.

The Running Man

Coming to a forum saying to insinuate one debating is dumb despite the fact that debating is a big part of what forums are about= Dumb.

slop101

I've posted this elsewhere, but the more I think about Bable, the less I like it.

Similar to Crash (though not nearly as bad), It's a lazy, dishonest film.

Consider this:
The nanny needs to get rid of the kids THE DAY AFTER their mom is shot. IOW, the day after she's on every news channel in the world. And no one is willing to help out? There are no neighbors who have seen this on the news? And where are the camera people waiting at their house?

But the nanny needs to make the retarded decision to take the kids to Mexico and make the further retarded decision to get in a car with a drunk driver who will make further retarded decisions... all carefully set up to get Inniratu's "point" across - whatever that is...

Which brings me to another problem: The portrayal of the non-americans thourghout the movie, where it seems like ALL the bad decisions and wrong-headedness came from foriegn characters, and the whites were just victims.
Examples:
- the farmer's kids shooting at the bus (who would do this anyways?)
- the incest going on in that family
- the dad's decision to run instead of surrendering and explaining
- the nanny taking the kids to Mexico
- the nephew's drunkeness, "short-cut" and horrible behavior at the border
- the japanese girl's desparate acts

and on and on... Meanwhile, Pitt, Blanchett and their kids do nothing but suffer.
What was the point to all this? I found no point at all. Stupid vacation destinations might get you stuck with stupid fellow vacationers and shot by stupid, horny kids trying to see if "the bullets are lame"?

A lot of stuff just didn't make sense.

I kept asking myself why the nephew would kick them out of the car? What was the point of that, other than to strand them in the desert? It seems to me like Inniratu had a bunch of ideas he wanted to express and themes he was interested in but didn't really have a through-line for the whole film. I don't see there being a single, coherent theme that unites the entire picture.
Instead we've got:

- Not all American injuries in other countries are terrorist attacks.

- Even deaf Japanese girls are sexual beings who struggle with the loss of their mothers.

- U.S. Border Patrol officers are assholes, and our immigration policies are often too harsh on hard working domestics.

Could make for interesting stuff, but not in this movie, as it was way too lazy and messy to be coherent.

MrE

Actually this thread argues the case for BABEL ... lots of talk, lots of misunderstandings.
BTW I took the reference to "dumbness" to be ironic, as in the inabilty to speak or to say what you mean.

slop101

You couldn't be more wrong. I love films that utilize what you've described, but Babel does nothing of the sort. I suggest you look at the works of filmmakers who know how to achieve this, filmmakers like Antonioni, Wenders, Tarkovski, Kar-Wai, and see how it's done effectively. Comparing Babel to the works of those directors is like comparing a 6th-grader's book report to a PhD dissertation.

Josh Z

Just to pick a nit here, when talking about Wong Kar-Wai, "Wong" is his surname. Kar-Wai is his given name.

This would be akin to saying, "filmmakers like Spielberg, Cameron, Zemekis, and Martin".