Mike Adams

Yeah, I started a new thread, wanna fight aboudit? (Family Guy reference, folks).

Since the "does this movie come with an insert" thread has 25 pages, most of which don't seem to have been integrated into the initial post, I felt it necessary to start a new thread to ask my question instead of sifting through all that mess. To help give the thread some purpose beyond my one question, I figured it could be about all Paramount releases that have fallen victim to this kind of cost-cutting measure.

I recently bought Coming To America for $4.44 at WAL-MART, and not only was it missing the insert that I'm almost sure it was supposed to have, it also had a plain silver disc surface, with the text represented by bare areas in the silkscreened surface instead of actual artwork. I've noticed this with Forrest Gump as well, so it seemed worth starting a thread to try and identify which titles have suffered this fate, and if there's any way to tell original pressings from later cheap-ass reissues.

I suppose my chances are pretty good that if I pick up a used copy somewhere, it's likely to have full artwork on the disc and probably the insert too, but it just bothers me that now I have to re-buy this thing to get something that looks halfway decent. I know that Over The Hedge, for example, came with the plain silver disc label to begin with, but I seriously doubt that Coming To America was always like that.

Any help, advice, or additional titles affected would be appreciated.

P.S. I could use an insert for Trading Places too if anyone's got one. I believe my disc has artwork on it, but by the time I bought mine (also from the bargain bin at WAL-MART), the insert had been dropped.

RyoHazuki

A lot of dvds just have silver text on the disc. No fancy disc art. I don't have that title so I can't confirm anything but I doubt its a mistake.

Also how does not having an insert make it look worse?

Mike Adams

Actually, the earlier thread wasn't completely useless after all. This tidbit might help anal-retentive collectors like me find copies of Paramount DVDs that should still have an insert in them:

So, if you see proof-of-purchase tabs on the back cover, chances are it won't have an insert inside. Thanks to Dabaomb for posting this information eons ago, it was just the clue I needed.

Mike Adams

Again, I realize some do now, but it's a fairly recent practice. A release that's been out that long should have normal artwork. Studios often reissue titles without inserts and with cheaper-looking packaging or discs -- welcome to the forum.

The biggest problem is that I like to keep discs with inserts in binders, and if I had the original insert for this one (which should have looked just like the cover), I could toss the cover and just keep the insert. For the most part though, it's just the principle of having everything the DVD came with when it was first released. I understand that you'll occasionally be missing stuff when buying used because the previous owner kept, destroyed, or lost something, but to buy something brand new (even for $4.44) and not get an insert or disc label art because the studio still wanted to sell copies but was too cheap to keep making them like they used to is a pain in the ass for people like me who don't buy everything the day it comes out.

EdTheRipper

If you'd like, I'll mail you out my insert from Coming To America.

zombiezilla

BLASPHEMER! LOL

tonyc3742

?

Having it, but then throwing it away? If not having the insert in a new rereleased disk bothers you that much, how/why can you throw away the cover? And if you're storing them in binders, but throwing away the cover, then it's really *not* about having everything it came with, is it? It's just about having the insert. So cheaper looking packaging shouldn't really matter, and while I like pretty pictures on the disk surface, as long as I can easily tell what the disk is, I care more about what's on the disk, than what's on the disk.
Buying used, yeah, sometimes it's missing stuff. If I save 50- 80% buying used, and it's missing an insert, that's a fair trade off to me.
Rereleases, though I like them to be 'complete', sometimes [as you allude to] they cut costs in order to allow a lower price point. As long as I'm not missing anything important [yes, that's relative, but to me, things like content on the disk, or a pack-in episode guide or something like that is 'important'], again, I see that as a fair tradeoff [for me].

Mike Adams

That's very generous, thanks! Drop me an e-mail for my address.

Unfortunately, since I'll also have to replace the disc itself, I'll probably end up buying a used copy, or since I now have the necessary "clue" to finding an original pressing, perhaps a new one is still around somewhere. When I find the original disc (back me up here if yours does indeed have artwork on it), I'd imagine I'd get an insert with it. Failing that though, I'd happily accept your insert if you really don't need it. Of course as I mentioned, with Trading Places, all I really need is the insert.

Mike Adams

Yeah, I knew that would go over well.

darkside

So their screwing up DVDs consists of inserts and disc art? If this kind of thing upsets you go and talk to all the DVD-18 owners who discs don't even play correctly.

At the very least the title of this thread should be corrected so we will at least know to skip over it. I thought this was about some real problems with Paramount's releases.

EdTheRipper

You've got mail.
My CTA disc is silver with maroon and black lettering...no real artwork.

dvd_luver

Coming To America never had disc art, it had the usual Paramount catalogue title DVD look to it with the films logo on top. However it never had the silver coat on top, so your not missing out on anything with that release. Forrest Gump had beautiful disc art to it and it's a shame they have gone with just the silver coat on top. Since they art cutting costs I wonder if they will ever get around to releasing some of they're more wanted catalogue title. Like 1492: Conquest of Paradise, and I guess it will have the silver coat look to it if it ever materializes, with no disc art. Shame, I always loved the disc art from this studio........

Mike Adams

No, throwing away the cover, not the insert. I can't do that unless I have the insert (well, I could, but I wouldn't have the cover art).

As for the "lower price point" argument, Paramount isn't selling these directly to WAL-MART to sell at $4.44. No matter what the price point, later pressings of this and many other titles are getting short shrift, and it pisses me off. It wouldn't matter so much if there was an obvious way to tell it was a re-issue, like changing the cover art, making it a double-feature, or at least changing the freakin' SKU.

I happen to like "pretty artwork" on my discs, but not just for the sake of it. The biggest problem is that I know it wasn't always like that, but a plain silver disc like that is difficult to identify at a glance, whereas the original version isn't.

I'm not saying it's not worth re-buying to get all the stuff the original had, just that I would have liked to have known before buying it. Since it looked no different than the original pressing (save the proof-of-purchase tabs), I'm just pissed to have wasted time and money, because I wouldn't have bothered had I known it wasn't like the original.

emachine12

How is a missing insert and basic DVD art screwing up a DVD?

The disc works right? I can understand wanting the insert but most discs I have don't have art on them.

Its not like renting a disc and getting the incorrect portion of a film after the layer change.

Its not the same as buying a film and finding the title cards and original subtitles are missing.

And its not really as screwed up as buying a DVD and finding the sound channels were incorrectly mixed.

You paid $4.44 for the movie and it works. Its not screwed up. If you paid $4.44 and the disc did not play then you have a problem.

Mike Adams

Okay, thanks. Still, the logo on a white (?) background is much better than the plain "silver on silver" look. I'll take a look at a rental or used copy and then decide whether it's all that much better. I obviously don't want to buy an older copy if it's all scuffed up, and certainly not if any errors have been corrected with the reissue, but I doubt that.

dvd_luver

It's not all that better really, the silver on silver for Coming To America should do just fine since it had no disc art to begin with, just the films logo on top! It's actually better to have the silver on silver top with it if you hate getting the top messy.

Mike Adams

emachine12, it is NOT about what I paid. It's about not getting what I have a right to expect when it's the same cover as what I really wanted. I would have paid $19.99 to get the right DVD rather than buy something for $4.44 that I'll just have to replace. Besides, if this is the first time you've seen anyone express the opinion that things other than the actual content on the disc are important, you obviously haven't been here very long, or at least weren't paying attention.

Mike Adams

Nah, color on white is much better in my opinion, and yes, it's just my opinion I'm expressing here. Of course there are the ones where there's no silkscreen coat at all, and the text is just laser-etched, but I don't think this one was like that. It's good to know I'm not missing major artwork, but I still think it'll be worth replacing.

PaulNJ21

What do you expect from a DVD that is $4.44?


Paul

Mike Adams

I'll leave it up to the moderators to change the title if they wish, but I'm surprised that a couple people don't understand that missing parts of packaging and unannounced alterations are indeed "real problems".

The saying goes, "I complained that I had no shoes until I met a man with no feet", but you know, if that guy had feet but no shoes, he'd be complaining too. I started this thread for people like me who picked up Forrest Gump and saw the changes, and then bought Coming To America and saw a disturbing trend. It's not about one $4.44 DVD putting me into bankruptcy or the disillusionment sending me to therapy, just a general comment about yet another cost-cutting measure that's annoying to anyone who isn't of the opinion that "if it plays, it's fine", which I thought was most everyone here, since this is reputed to be a "collectors' forum".

When I found "Hero" in widescreen, I wouldn't have cared what the disc looked like, the cover, insert, or anything else. In fact, I ended up trading a single-sided disc with artwork for a double-sided one, just because it had the widescreen version on it. In this case, every single copy looks the same on the outside, and I was just disappointed to find out that this DVD had been changed just like Forrest Gump had. It was just the second occurrence, and before I waste time and money like that again, I though it'd be good to start a thread where people with experience with Paramount releases could share information about avoiding this situation before it happens.

Obviously that's too much to expect -- people can start threads about the precise method of opening DVDs, right down to how they fold up the detrius, but I can't try and compile information that I thought might actually help people avoid an inconvience and annoyance that I've recently dealt with. As I've often been compelled to say in this forum... excuse the fuck outta me.

Mike Adams

I've covered this before if you'd care to read the posts, but the answer is that I expect the same thing as I would if I had paid $19.99 for the same DVD. Like I said, it wasn't used, defective, or anything like that. This was a brand-new DVD that was only $4.44 because it was in the bargain bin at WAL-MART. They also sell the first season of The Jeff Foxworthy Show for $5.50 -- would you be okay if they replaced the two-disc full season with a single-disc 5-episode sampler and didn't bother changing the cover??? I doubt it.

Mike Adams

One note I should make is that I probably should have started this in the "Covers, Cases & Inserts" sub-forum, so if the moderators would care to move it there (or you know, delete the whole fucking thing entirely, I really don't give a shit anymore), I'd appreciate it. My apologies for the mislocation.

tonyc3742

Yes. The cover is part of the 'complete package'. As is the case. It sounds like you're complaining when these rereleases, sold at 25% the original retail price, are not 'complete', when in actuality you dispose of the cover and the case. [To define terms and make sure we're talking about the same thing: "case" is the plastic thing the disk fits in, "cover" is the paper showing disk details that is usually under the clear plastic of the case and can be easily removed, and "insert" is the paper that comes inside the case, ranging from a one-sheet chapter listing to a minibooklet].

Well, but you didn't. Early adopters of virtually anything pay a premium to get the item in one form. If you buy a later generation, usually you save money, and sometimes you gain features [smaller size, etc] but sometimes you lose features [the HDA2's lack of analog output].
No, but I'm sure some of the titles that are sold for 4.44 do have a lower price point from the distributor. Maybe it's not proportionate to the retail drop, and I don't know what the retailer cost is for a new release dvd, but it's probably more than 4.45.

Is the SKU/UPC never changed? It might keep the same SKU to be easier on the retailer's end, but the UPC or item number may change, just to be replaced in the database.
Of course, one could argue that selling a DVD for 4.44, that was originally 19.99, is an obvious note that something has changed about the item.
And you say below that " it looked no different than the original pressing (save the proof-of-purchase tabs)". So there actually *is* an obvious way to tell it was a reissue, you just weren't aware of it. Changing SKU number is just as arcane to the 'average person', and just as obvious to the 'collector'. The other alternative is to put in big letters either on the front or back, "Reissue! Third Printing", of course, that definitely means what you're buying is markedly different.
I generally agree; if they can make a plain silver disk that is easy to identify, I'm fine with that. I've seen some disks with artwork that were equally hard to identify, most commonly parts of a multi-disk set, so you can easily identify what series/program it is, but not the disk number.

I guess we part ways here [among other places]. If I bought a legitimate DVD for 4.50, and the only difference between my copy and the 20 dollar copy was the lack of a relatively pointless insert [only listing chapter stops] or disk art, I wouldn't care to rebuy to get those two things I'm lacking.

And no offense, you have commented before how you get 'jumped on' or whatever in some threads. Might I suggest that some of that has to do with your approach? I know it was an allusion and a joke [though I don't watch the show, so without your note I would have missed it], but starting a thread with the words " Yeah, I started a new thread, wanna fight aboudit? " seems to set a combative atmosphere. I'm not saying everyone here needs to be huggy and agreeable, but people can disagree and not be combative. Many of your posts include phrasings or word choice that, at least in my eyes, are of the "Oh yeah? Come on then!" or "Well, whatever, you're clearly wrong *and* stupid" variety/tone, and are not conducive to a respectful discussion. If no one else sees this, then I'll say I'm interpreting it wrong and forget about it.

Mike Adams

Believe me, any "combativeness" comes from many innocent comments from me being responded to harshly, where others can say the exact same thing and it's accepted. I think you've got a chicken-and-egg thing going on here.

Anyway, people are probably taking my dissatisfaction WAY too seriously. I'm not saying "ban Paramount!", I was just thinking it'd be nice to start a thread for information about those releases, like the less-than-obvious UPC thing. Proof-of-purchase tabs are OFTEN above the UPC, so that's nothing anyone would think to look for until someone said "well Paramount used to put them on the insert, so if they're there, no insert".

As for your repeated insistence that price is the issue, nobody replies to every post in the Bargains forum "only $9.99? What's missing?" so you can hardly expect me to know ahead of time that something has been changed if the release isn't selling for full list price. Do you know how many "bargain bin" DVDs are exactly like the original pressings, and even ARE??? The whole point of a bargain bin is OVERSTOCK. No matter how many copies they sell, for a studio to make NEW copies of a DVD just for retailers to blow out at less than five bucks is pretty stupid. Studios, distributors, etc. try to get rid of EXCESS INVENTORY by giving retailers bulk deals at a price cut for their bargain bins. It's not about making new copies to sell for less.

For all I know this change happened years ago, and I'm only just finding out about it because I finally bought one. The insert and color logo could have gone away when the price dropped to $9.99, but according to your logic, they should have dropped something else when it went down to $4.44. It didn't -- the DVD you get for $4.44 at WAL-MART is probably the same one you pay $9.99 for at BEST BUY. I just wanted to start a thread where people didn't have to sift through 616 posts over 25 pages and listings of tons of other titles from all the other studios to find out how to tell if a Paramount release is an original pressing or not.

You see, if there's any pattern to my so-called "hostility", it's that it always seems to arise when something bad (or just annoying) happens to me, and after I take time out to post about my experiences to save everyone else some incovenience, anyone who shouldn't even be READING the thread comes in and threadcraps all over me because they don't happen to care about inserts. Regarding throwing away the cover, the precise problem I have is that I want the CHOICE of whether to throw something away or not. If I had an insert, I COULD throw away the cover. I'm not gonna complain about all the titles which NEVER came with an insert, just the ones where there was SUPPOSED to be one, and it was dropped. I'm not even faulting the companies for dropping it, I just want to share information on how to tell if they did or not, THAT'S ALL!!!!!!!

Regarding the original disc surface, it was apparently like 48 Hrs., in that it was a plain silver disc with a color logo on it. That's preferable to me over a silver silkscreened one, but the reality of why that was done is probably that they don't manufacture discs like that anymore. Forrest Gump puzzles me more, because the method originally used on that disc is still done, but it just costs more for all those colors.

Speaking of 48 Hrs., if anyone's bought the reissues of that or the sequel with the new covers, let me know if they changed the disc art as well, would you?

Okay, I think I'm done now.

jiggawhat

I would just return coming to america because an SE is coming this year.