Breakfast with Girls

...some people should just not bother reading. Ever.

If you're a kid in school and hate everything you read, it probably means you're dumb. That's okay. Just accept that and buy the Cliff's Notes instead of leaving Amazon reviews. Thanks.

lukewarmwater

I know exactly what you mean, when I was looking for blah blah blah blah blah I couldn't believe when blah blah blah blah blah blah its like they never blah blah blah blah blah blah I don't know why amazon doesn't blah blah blah blah.

stupid internet kids .

milo bloom

I'm not sure what books you mean, but I am a voracious reader, and have been my entire life, but the books we were forced to read in High School were either above our heads or overrated tripe that's somehow kept around by virtue of being a classic.

I've gone back and re-read some of the books from my school days, and I've come to appreciate them, but it's got to be because I've got actual life experience under my belt and the themes and subtexts make more sense.

I feel the public school system has fallen into a rut with their texts, if we want to make our kids enjoy learning, we need to give them something to enjoy. There were plenty of books I enjoyed at that age, and they were pretty much all self chosen, and not forced on me.

Josh-da-man

Here's what really irritates me about Amazon's Customer Reviews: When someone leaves a one-star/bad review for a book/CD/movie because they're mad at Amazon or an marketplace seller.

Something like this:

or

Makes me wonder how people this fucking stupid can even figure out how to order from Amazon, let alone use a fucking computer.

benedict

I think Amazon has a report problem posts button.

Although I've not seen such reviews as mentioned above I'd be tempted to use it with a note saying "This isn't eBay. They need to review the book or find another way to leave negative feedback. Please remove this non-review."

But you probably already did that

mndtrp

I agree that many of the "classics" don't appeal to a lot of people. I've read many of them, and liked very few. I don't post negative reviews on sites, unless it's utter crap. However, it's not often that anything will garner one from me, as I can find something useful in most everything.

I also agree with pretty much all of milo's post.

beatccr

what gets on my nerves is when someone writes a very positive review on an item yet gives it only 1 star. drives me crazy.

Kevin M. Dean

Reminds me of when I came across this reviewer. Over 2000 reviews, with most of them negative. The guy just comes off as a ranter brimming with negativity. You'd think he'd find an area more worthy than Amazon reviews. Granted some of the stuff he reviews probably deserves one star, but if you dig a little you'll see he has nothing positive to say about anything good.

Corvin

I agree with your sentiment: we have to make students enjoy learning. This may require choosing texts that aren't classically included in the canon; in many cases, that is what has happened.

I've been into many high schools the past couple of years, and there has been a shift.

boredsilly

I LOVE amazon reviews. I read an article a while back that talked about how people are negative on sites like that just because they can be and how it's fun to look at their reviews. Some people just like to be asses.

However, I do find them useful more times than not. You have to be careful now though as there are "plants" who leave overly positive feedback for a bunch of stuff now.

My biggest pet peeve is how people will review a book from cover to cover, giving away major spoilers of a book, but not say that is their reviews intention. I got burned a few times with that.

In regards to the forced reading in schools I had some problems with that. I understand the importance of Shakespeare, and I do enjoy seeing it performed, but I cannot stand to read it. I had a teacher who, no lie, broke down Hamlet line by line. He insisted that each line had a deeper meaning. This is just something I never bought. Sometimes a line just means what it says. No need to assign a deeper meaning to everything.

As far as my k-8 education goes, reading was pretty much something that was put on the backburner. I will never understand why I was only assigned something like 5 books (proper novels - not short stories or the like) to read from the first grade through the 8th. Like...what? That's it? Thankfully I read on my own, but still that is pretty fucked up. In highschool the reading assignments picked up greatly and I did enjoy quite a few of the books. Invisible Man, Frankenstein, To Kill a Mockingbird (why didn't I read this in the 6th grade I will never know?), The Metamorphosis...among others. But that damn Shakespeare...ugh.

GreenMonkey

That dude is fricking hilarious! Worst reviewer ever! Great find!

I took some quick funny excerpts out and boldfaced the funniest or stupidest parts.

Six Feet Under:
This one for Jar Jar Binks: F Hollywood True Story:


Thank You for Smoking script:
Prozac Nation DVD:

Veronica Mars:



And my favorite for inconsistency (see bold).
Gilmore Girls S5:

This DVD is over-priced and cheap

Breakfast with Girls

That's the point.

Here's an example of someone who shouldn't ever leave a review ever again, from All Quiet on the Western Front.

Here's another one for 1984:

A lot of the low reviews for the book (all from kids) revolved around the "unnecessary" sex scenes. Sigh.

I think technically these reviews are enough to kill someone with a heart condition.

Kevin M. Dean

Here's some more excerpts:

The Incredibles Score
Talking about inconsistency, how can the movie be worse, yet the music is 3 times as bad.


Angel Season 5

Kevin M. Dean

A little more idocy

Lost Season 1

milo bloom

We were forced to read stuff like Wuthering Heights, Tess of the Durberville's, and other such page-turners. We did read To Kill A Mockingbird in HS, but all we got out of then was "racism=bad". Re-reading it a few years ago, I was blown away by the depth and soul the story had. Someone once said to me that "learning was wasted on the young". I'm forced to agree that forcing kids to read these before they can appreciate them is like the old saying about teaching a pig to sing.

Let them read slightly less "dense" material when they're young so they can see that reading can be enjoyable, and as they grow up, they're more likely to get into other stuff.

Jackson_Browne

I don't think any high schooler can even begin to properly understand Invisible Man no matter how good the teacher is. There is so much complexity and so many layers to this book, that while it may be enjoyable at face value, you are missing out on so much that just can't be covered in a high school class. This book reveals so much more when read as an adult when you have a lot of time to really sit down with it and sort it all out.

Nick Danger

When I was in high school, I took a class called "Contemporary Novel". Every book in the curriculum was about maladjusted adolescents. I hated it. I didn't want someone choosing books that would be 'relevant' to me.

Catcher in the Rye
A Separate Peace
The Car Thief
The Magician (Chiefly about a lawyer manipulating the courts system)
Bless the Beasts and the Children
The Outsiders

It was a huge relief the next year when I took "Classic Novel" from the same teacher, and we read David Copperfield and Anna Karennina.

Groucho

Folks, we can't let high schools choose what they read, otherwise everybody would be writing book reports on the novelization of Snakes on a Plane.

milo bloom

And the problem with that is? If you let them learn their critique techniques on something they can grasp in the first place, wouldn't it give them a headstart on being able to critique something with a little more substance?

Drop

No, I disagree. In fact I think that's just silly, what can Snakes on a Plane be critiqued on? I think you send the wrong message to students that way, like forcing them to look for things that aren't there. I guess Snakes on a Plane would be a good start for middle schoolers though.

It was once said by Longfellow, "If you would hit the mark you must aim a little above it".

I see no reason why any high schooler can't read Orwell or Salinger or Harper Lee or Fitzgerald or Huxley or Camus or Hemingway or Poe or Shelley (husband and wife) or Frost or Shakespeare and I could name every author and poet. They aren't very hard at all, actually I've found them all quite enjoyable, and took it upon myself to read many of these authors on my own. Some of my favorite books were "forced upon me" in high school.

The thing with all of these great authors is that you could look at these stories on the surface or examine them deeply. Why must the first read be the one where you truly appreciate them? Reading should be for enjoyment first and foremost. That I think is the problem with many high schoolers, they can't grasp reading for enjoyment. I got past that quite quickly and became an avid reader in high school.

And really high schoolers should have learned critique techniques in middle school. You know the whole three paragraph essay (that is garbage by the way, but high school teachers love), how to recognize figurative language (symbols, similes, metaphors, etc.), those wonderful transitional phrases, and so on.

I think it is more important for a student to be overwhelmed by their work in high school, otherwise in college they might be completely lost.

Breakfast with Girls

I enjoyed many books I had to read for school, but I would say you and I (and probably most of us on this board, since we earn enough money to have a somewhat expensive hobby) are the exception.

Meh, this is the same thinking that caused my sixth year of grade school to be harder than just about any other year of school until my junior or senior year of high school. Our teacher was "preparing us for" (terrifying us about) the rigors of junior high and assigning a ridiculous amount of work for 11- and 12-year-olds.

No matter what your study habits are, you either adjust pretty quickly in college or you fail. If a kid fails out, it has more to do with the parents than the high school teachers.

Anyway, that's all beside the point. I just don't want dumb kids to leave annoying, pointless reviews on Amazon.

Groucho

No matter what the book is, the very fact that students are being forced to read it is going to make them rebel. I remember that there was one class when I was in high school where "The Hobbit" was on the curriculum (this was long before Tolkien became popular again due to the LOTR movies). The students fought reading it so hard that the teacher eventually had to choose another novel.

boredsilly

I have no doubt about that and will surely read it again (its been ten years, so it's about time), but there is something to be said for just enjoying the book for what was laid out in front of me. I doubt I got most of anything I read at those times. No life to place the book up against you know?

I think Groucho is right. I would have loved if we read a graphic novel betweem tougher books as a breather in my literature classes in highschool. Either something with academic merit or an early issue of Superman breaking down the symbolism. That would have been great for me, but most of my class would have hated that as much as I did the reading of Shakespeare. Teachers really can't win.

brainee

I think this point is right on. I'm not sure what the best way to address it is, though some "non-standard" teaching approaches might work. Some things I liked and disliked from my own schooling:

1) There was one class (in middle school) where everyone got to pick their own book (with teacher approval, but she was pretty lenient with what could be chosen). Then you had to do a presentation to the class with a synopsis, and things you liked/disliked about the book. We did this a couple of times: I remember doing Well's "War of the Worlds" and Tolkein's LotRs. I liked Wells enough that I read other stories in the omnibus I had just for fun.

2) What I hated is when your "testing" on the book isn't about general understanding and appreciation but remembering specific details. There was this one high school teacher who was a stickler for this. If there was a minute detail in the pages, she'd quiz us about it. Sucked the fun out of reading. Once she assigned a couple books: "Lord of the Flies" and "Potrait of a Lady". I loved LotF, and ripped through it in record time. Probably my favorite book I was "forced" to read. I hated PoaL, gave up after 75 pages or so of extreme boredom, and read the cliff notes. Of course, I failed the test on LotF and aced the one on PoaL. She then came up with this crazy notion of making "Cliff Notes proof" tests. Now, all exams and quizes were filled with trivial facts that didn't even make the Cliff Notes. We'd be asked stuff like the street address a character lived in, or similar nonsense. It's a good thing I was already into reading for pleasure, because that whole experience left a bad taste in everyones mouth for books in general.

3) Shakespeare should always be seen in addition to being read. Shakespeare himself didn't write them as novels -- they were scripts for a performance. Yet almost all classes I had treated them as novels. It's amazing how easy it is to get past the old English barrier when you see the plays performed well. But reading it can be a drag, especially when you have to consult the footnotes for translations every other line.

milo bloom

I think this is the point I wanted to make. The way the classes were taught, we couldn't enjoy the books if we wanted to.

Another excellent point