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Star Wars '77 or The Empire Strikes Back, which is your favorite? [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum
 
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View Full Version : Star Wars '77 or The Empire Strikes Back, which is your favorite?


coli
06-20-06, 05:04 AM
I feel the only classic Star Wars movies are the first two made in 1977 & 1980. ROTJ, TPM, AOTC, and ROTS have their great moments, but have their bad moments which make them all OK SW movies, but just don't compare to Star Wars '77 & ESB. Many fans, not all, who weren't big fans of the PT agree that these two SW films are the only ones that hold up as classics after all these years. So which one is your favorite?

For me it is Star Wars '77, but ESB is almost like 1A. Star Wars just has so many goosebump moments that are found in films once a generation:

-Luke looking at the binary sunset
-Luke seeing his dead aunt & uncles skeletons and realizing his destiny
-ObiWan winking at Luke before being struck down by Vader
-Luke & Leia flying across the death star chasm
-Han solo saving the day while Luke blows up the death star
-Luke & Han receiving medals from Leia. It is sorta cheesy, but rewarding.

ESB is great, but I think if I had my choice, I would pick Star Wars.

Apone
06-20-06, 06:30 AM
ESB:

-The first appearance of Imperial fleet with triumphant "The Imperial March" soundtrack by John Williams.

-More interacting and alive (or dead) Imperial characters.

-The battle of Hoth and those Snow Troopers.

-Yoda's play of a fool.

-The scene with Luke's self-destruction image.

-The original transmission between Darth Vader and The Empire.

-Han Solo's freezing.

-The shootout in Sky City.

-The best lightsaber battle or the best "good vs. evil" battle.

So I will have to go with ESB. :)

Giles
06-20-06, 08:37 AM
Empire for the sole scene where the Milleninium Falcon is trying to outrace the t-fighters and starship destroyers through the Asteroid Belt... wow! Editing, SFX, music score, intensity - perfect combination of what a director can use to create a memorable scene.

Zodiac_Speaking
06-20-06, 08:42 AM
Empire. 'Nuff said. Close thread.

Kal-El
06-20-06, 10:02 AM
I guess it's "Geek Week" here at Movie Talk. hehehe

Anyway, Empire all the way. Imperial March, AT-ATs, Vader just Force-Choking everybody around him ("Apology accepted, Captain Needa"), the Asteroid Chase, Luke/Vader duel, Han/Leia, etc.

astrochimp
06-20-06, 10:09 AM
They're the only 2 i love outta the 6 also but i would go with Empire,it just has the drama edge over SW.

lordwow
06-20-06, 10:21 AM
Empire is the best by far. It's everything you could want in a sequel. There are definately some great moments in Star Wars like the Trench Run, but ESB eclipses it.

coli
06-20-06, 10:30 AM
I see Empire is winning here, and I do love it just as much as Star Wars, so you won't get an argument here on the two.

Now, for all that answered ESB, do you consider SW & ESB the only two great SW films? I think there is a severe quality drop after ESB, and has set up false expectations for every SW film since 1980. ESB is so good, we have waited 25 and four movies for the next ESB, and it never came.

Any thoughts?

Giles
06-20-06, 10:40 AM
I just think it was a bad call on Lucas' part to introduce the Ewoks in 'Jedi' - to cute and cuddley if you ask me..

Mr. Cinema
06-20-06, 10:49 AM
Empire by a mile. It's just a better film.

resinrats
06-20-06, 11:28 AM
Star Wars by default. I've always hated Yoda so his scenes were just boring and I hated the him so that knocks ESB to the lowest of the OT films.

Giles
06-20-06, 11:38 AM
Star Wars by default. I've always hated Yoda so his scenes were just boring and I hated the him so that knocks ESB to the lowest of the OT films.

not to discredit Frank Oz, but Yoda sounds WAAAY to much like Fozzie Bear.
(yucka-yucka)

Kal-El
06-20-06, 11:43 AM
I dunno. Yoda's probably my 2nd favorite character in the whole saga. Right behind Ewan's Obi-Wan. Especially puppet Yoda in Empire. Even now when I watch it, I don't see a puppet. I see Yoda.

Doughboy
06-20-06, 11:59 AM
Empire. My favorite movie of all-time(the original version at least). Even the cheesy lines like "Laugh it up, fuzzball", "Why you stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking, nerf herder!", and "I am NOT a committee!" work.

It has FX that still look good to this day, a puppet performance so real that it creeped me out as a kid, the finest film score ever composed(I HATE how the SE butchers the Cloud City escape), solid character development, the greatest cinematic villain of all-time(in spite of Episode III's best attempts to neuter him), and one hell of a twist ending.

OldBoy
06-20-06, 12:03 PM
I guess it's "Geek Week" here at Movie Talk. hehehe

yeah...these vs. threads are getting ridiculous considering they have all been done before.

jeffkjoe
06-20-06, 12:04 PM
I've seen Star Wars 351 times, but ESB only 350.

So, A New Hope I guess.

Terrell
06-20-06, 12:15 PM
I feel the only classic Star Wars movies are the first two made in 1977 & 1980. ROTJ, TPM, AOTC, and ROTS have their great moments, but have their bad moments which make them all OK SW movies, but just don't compare to Star Wars '77 & ESB. Many fans, not all, who weren't big fans of the PT agree that these two SW films are the only ones that hold up as classics after all these years. So which one is your favorite?

Well, I don't agree with that with respect to ROTJ. I've never understood how a Star Wars fan can't enjoy ROTJ. The fact is Star Wars and Empire are nothing without Jedi, except a saga without a resolution. In other words, they would be completely pointless.

As to the question, I can never really choose between any of the original three. But I do like Empire the best.

nodeerforamonth
06-20-06, 12:42 PM
I've never understood how a Star Wars fan can't enjoy ROTJ.

Ewoks. They took a movie series that everyone enjoyed as a kid or an adult and geared it towards toddlers.

Terrell
06-20-06, 12:54 PM
Ewoks. They took a movie series that everyone enjoyed as a kid or an adult and geared it towards toddlers.

Okay, so you don't like ewoks. What about the other hour and 45 minutes of the film. There is just so much kickass stuff to enjoy in Jedi. Besides, the ewoks aren't that bad. Jar-Jar pretty has proven that.

I know the usual list of criticisms. The problem is most of that list hold no water as far as I'm concerned.

nodeerforamonth
06-20-06, 01:39 PM
Okay, so you don't like ewoks. What about the other hour and 45 minutes of the film. There is just so much kickass stuff to enjoy in Jedi. Besides, the ewoks aren't that bad. Jar-Jar pretty has proven that.

I know the usual list of criticisms. The problem is most of that list hold no water as far as I'm concerned.

I don't have a problem with the other hour and a half of the film at all. But the ewoks are just so horrible, it kind of ruins it for me. Jar Jar was even worse.

eedoon
06-20-06, 02:07 PM
ESB by an inch.

coli
06-20-06, 02:10 PM
[QUOTE=Terrell]Well, I don't agree with that with respect to ROTJ. I've never understood how a Star Wars fan can't enjoy ROTJ. The fact is Star Wars and Empire are nothing without Jedi, except a saga without a resolution. In other words, they would be completely pointless.

I still love ROTJ, but I know in my heart it is an average film, and I only do watch it is because of resolution. I have been watching all 3 movies in 4,5,6 order since 1983, or when they all finally came out on video in 1986? I just think that SW & ESB are in a class of their own as for SW films. But ROTJ is still a good sequel, or better than Superman IV or Rocky V crap-fests.

As for watching it 1-6, I started looking at the clock halfway through TPM, and said to myself, "OK, after this I have one more average movie to get through, then it gets interesting." I never tried it again, cause I shouldn't watch a movie out of obligation, and thats the PT for me, especially TPM & AOTC, the OT I watch cause I love. IMO

rocket1312
06-20-06, 03:31 PM
Well, I don't agree with that with respect to ROTJ. I've never understood how a Star Wars fan can't enjoy ROTJ. The fact is Star Wars and Empire are nothing without Jedi, except a saga without a resolution. In other words, they would be completely pointless.


Not to make this another ROTJ topic, but this is EXCATLY why I despise Jedi. It really bothers me that my favorite film of all time (Empire) is incomplete with out it. I can't ignore it like I can T3, Alien3, or a host of other weak sequels. I also think this is why people tend to give it a free pass. They say "well, you can't have Empire without Jedi" and ignore the fact that it's an inferior product. That being said, I envy those who think Jedi is great. I wish I could enjoy it. After not watching it for a couple of years, I'm able to convince myself its not too bad, but then I watch it experience the disappointment all over again.

Matthew Chmiel
06-20-06, 03:51 PM
Well, I don't agree with that with respect to ROTJ. I've never understood how a Star Wars fan can't enjoy ROTJ. The fact is Star Wars and Empire are nothing without Jedi, except a saga without a resolution. In other words, they would be completely pointless.
As a devout fan of the first two films, Return of the Jedi is a complete step backwards after the progression of The Empire Strikes Back.

I honestly believe after the scene at Jabba's palace, the film goes on a downward sprial. While the Jabba's palace sequence is great and wraps up a bit of the darker moments from ESB such as Han being rescued and Boba Fett meeting his demise, after that segment, the film goes directly to shit. The only scenes I like after that first fifteen minutes are the scenes with Luke, Darth, and the Emperor in the all out final battle of good versus evil.

Everything else in ROTJ is just complete dog shit.

The Yoda scenes are boring compared to those in ESB despite the fact the emphasis in all the Yoda footage should be about his impending death.

The space battle at the end is just lackluster as most people (myself included) could honestly not give a crap about the people involved. As much as I liked Lando, that should've been Han kicking ass and taking names in the Falcon during the climax.

And then there's the Ewoks. Easily they're the worst characters in the original trilogy. My friend at dinner one night a few years ago summed them up and the final part in the trilogy the best.

"How the hell can a bunch of fucking midgets with stones and tree branches defeat an intergalactic power with the best technology in the universe?"

Return of the Jedi is a decent film that probably would've been a great film with a few more rewrites and less Lucas involvement.

And that's why I like The Empire Strikes Back the best: less Lucas involvement. :)

Doughboy
06-20-06, 04:09 PM
And then there's the Ewoks. Easily they're the worst characters in the original trilogy. My friend at dinner one night a few years ago summed them up and the final part in the trilogy the best.

"How the hell can a bunch of fucking midgets with stones and tree branches defeat an intergalactic power with the best technology in the universe?"


Well in fairness, a big reason the Rebels and Ewoks were able to win the Battle of Endor was because they commandeered an AT-ST. They didn't do it all with stones and trees.

And honestly, the Rebellion's battle strategies in all 3 Star Wars movies were shortsighted at best. In Star Wars, they fly down the trench unprotected. It never occurs to anyone(besides Han at the last second) that they can doubleback on Vader and his two goons and blast them from behind.

In Empire, Luke seemed to destroy that AT-AT pretty easily. Just use a grappling gun, blast open a hatch with his lightsaber, and toss in a thermal detenator. Why not do that to all of them?

And of course, ROTJ had the Rebellion sending their entire fleet to attack a newly constructed Death Star they knew little about aside from what some allegedly trustworthy Bothans had told them. Considering how Palpatine had double-crossed an entire galaxy in order to acquire all his power, did it never occur to anyone in the Alliance that, as Leia and Admiral Ackbar so eloquently put it, "IT'S A TRAP!!!"?

asianxcore
06-20-06, 04:54 PM
Empire Strikes Back. It's always been my favorite movie in the trilogy.

Billy Dee Williams.

dhmac
06-20-06, 05:12 PM
I can't the first to think that this should've been a poll. One with (preferrably) these options:

Which is your favorite of just these two?
- Star Wars (1977 version)
- The Empire Strikes Back (1980 version)
- I Like Them Both Equally

dhmac
06-20-06, 05:19 PM
As a devout fan of the first two films, Return of the Jedi is a complete step backwards after the progression of The Empire Strikes Back.

I honestly believe after the scene at Jabba's palace, the film goes on a downward sprial. While the Jabba's palace sequence is great and wraps up a bit of the darker moments from ESB such as Han being rescued and Boba Fett meeting his demise, after that segment, the film goes directly to shit. The only scenes I like after that first fifteen minutes are the scenes with Luke, Darth, and the Emperor in the all out final battle of good versus evil.

Everything else in ROTJ is just complete dog shit.


You're being far too kind. Even the Jabba Palace sequence is complete dog shit. From Luke's idiotic rescue plan to the horrid music scenes to the total wasting of Boba Fett for a lame burp joke, the whole Jabba section sucks.

daniel18
06-20-06, 05:23 PM
I think Empire Strikes Back is a better made film but I enjoy A New Hope much, much more. Ep IV has Obi Wan Kenobi and Grand Moff Tarkin (by far my favorite Star Wars character), and has more "goosebumps" moments (like the original poster said) while I really hate Yoda, Lando Calrissian, find the Imperial March annoying, and hate the ending in Ep. V. I'm also not nearly as big a fan of Han Solo like most other Star Wars fans and dislike the fact that ESB concentrates so much on him.

FRwL
06-20-06, 05:29 PM
The Empire Strikes Back of course. It's the #1 best sequel of all time.This type of sequel is a true rarity, many others have been called superior than their originals but really are not, T2 isn't better than T1. Aliens is equal to Alien. TESB improves upon its predecessor in every possible way imaginable, another one that is superior to the original that i can think of is Mad Max 2.

I think Jedi has been settled in the Jedi is great thread already folks, no need for escalating it in the recent outburst of Star Wars threads after that topic.

hardercore
06-20-06, 05:31 PM
The Empire Strikes Back, because everything iconic about Star Wars is contained within that film ... The Imperial March, the famous lines: "I am your father", and "I love you" ... "I know". Plus it doesn't cantain any ridiculous singing, dancing, or instrument playing aliens (I cringe everytime the Cantina Band sequence in Episode IV or the Jedi Rocks sequence in Episode VI come on screen - I reach immediately for the remote and skip the chapter)

jeffkjoe
06-20-06, 08:10 PM
When I first saw THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK in 1980, I kinda felt unsatisfied with all the loose ends, whereas with A NEW HOPE in 1977, I was on cloud nine, elated, satisfied, complete.

Ky-Fi
06-20-06, 08:19 PM
Nothing bad to say about Empire, but Star Wars was just such a perfect bolt out of the blue---a whole new universe in a self-contained story. I don't think any other movie experience could possibly compare to seeing that in the theater at age 9, for me at least.

Matthew Chmiel
06-22-06, 03:47 AM
You're being far too kind. Even the Jabba Palace sequence is complete dog shit. From Luke's idiotic rescue plan to the horrid music scenes to the total wasting of Boba Fett for a lame burp joke, the whole Jabba section sucks.
I am going by the original theatrical cut which I haven't seen in over a decade, but I remember it had less music (but can't recall the Fett burp). The Special Edition of ROTJ doesn't exist and never happened in my mind.

Actually, the SE of ESB is the only one that I can tolerate.

Fok
06-22-06, 11:31 AM
ESB for me, holds all the stories together

Chrisedge
06-22-06, 04:05 PM
Star Wars:

Opening shot of the cruiser overhead
Plus all the "firsts"
Lightsabers
Darth Vader
Obi-Wan is alive
Han is coolest in SW
The DeathStar battle

Love ESB, but come on...I saw SW the first week it was out...

Filmmaker
06-22-06, 04:12 PM
RETURN OF THE JEDI

Yeah, that's right, RETURN OF THE goddamn JEDI.

hardercore
06-22-06, 04:19 PM
RETURN OF THE JEDI

Yeah, that's right, RETURN OF THE goddamn JEDI.

Return of the Jedi, all cuddly ewoks and flappy-skinned masks and alien rock band sequence?

Filmmaker
06-22-06, 04:35 PM
Return of the Jedi, all cuddly ewoks and flappy-skinned masks and alien rock band sequence?

Nub-nub, yer goddamn right!

FRwL
06-22-06, 05:47 PM
I believe the 1983 original had no such atrocious rock band sequence, nor any CG sarlaac creature, nor any goofy grinning Haydumb Cantactforshitensen.

Grand Dizzy
06-22-06, 06:09 PM
I have always preferred A New Hope to ESB.

However, I just have this feeling that as I get older I'm going to like ESB more. Odd feeling to have, really... I don't like it more yet.