Counter-Strike Neo -OR- How to localize American games in the Japanese market

[The Bus]

GDC: The Localization of Counter-Strike in Japan

When Namco project manager Kouichirou Taninami stepped up to the microphone, the majority of his potential audience was still piling out of Satoru Iwata's keynote address, fresh new copies of Brain Training in hand and Revolution on the brain. Though his lecture hall was enormous, the bodies littering it were the curious few. As it turned out, the lecture's focus was different somewhat from the features listed on the box; in place of the obvious assumption, a lecture about the changes made to Counter-Strike, Taninami's speech was as a whole to detail the way Counter-Strike aided Taninami in his mission to construct a working network gaming system for the famously persnickety Japanese market.

Taninami, a thirteen-year veteran of Namco's arcade division, was assigned five years ago to find a solution to the Japanese "network game problem". Whereas the US has enjoyed about thirty-five years of network connectivity, online games have never really caught on in Japan; for some time, received wisdom placed the blame on a nonexistent or comparably obscure architecture. And yet, now that broadband is prevalent, the market still barely exists.

So why is that, Taninami asked. Flipping the question around, he then asked what makes network games fun. He concluded that pleasure comes in part from the game itself – provided it's a good game – and in part from the company the player keeps. He called this situation a "relationship of multiplication": if the opponent fails to play fairly, then the game fails to be enjoyable. As far as Taninami was concerned, that social angle was the biggest problem.

As Taninami had a limited budget, he figured there was no point in wasting resources on development, when there are already so many well-made games available; instead, he poured all of his attention into the network aspect, conducting reams on ridiculous reams of research on how to ensure a fun level of competition. For the game, he selected Counter-Strike, due to its popularity elsewhere in the world. He asked Valve for a license to promote the game in Japan; they said okay and everything was in order. Almost.

Asian Eyes

Another crucial feature – the one this lecture seemed like it might have been about – was the way Counter-Strike looked. Its whole presentation screams "Western PC game", which in turn causes the average Japanese gamer to scream "Eek". The characters are gritty, burly, and not particularly appealing – so Namco got an artist to anime them up a little, replacing sweaty gringos with guys in primary-colored spandex and PVC shoulderpads, and hairy guys in fatigues and ski masks with antigravity-busted women in three square inches of purple nylon.

Similarly, Taninami decided that Japanese gamers would freak at the game's anti-terrorism angle – especially if the terrorists win a match – so he changed the scenario to a struggle between two opposing factions: the CSF and the NEO (leading to the game's new appellation, "Counter-Strike NEO"). And of course, because PC games have virtually no presence in Japan outside of porn and obscure doujin soft (amateur freeware), the keyboard-and-mouse controls had to be finessed a little. CS NEO uses a custom-built keyboard, with all the controls and hotkeys specially labeled.

There's also the issue that basically all people do in Counter-Strike is shoot each other – which should get boring after a while – so Taninami added a suite of single-person missions and mini-games; completing these modes gives a player special prizes. There are also a number of in-game events timed to various holidays and seasons, such as cherry blossoms that cascade in the spring. As for the game content itself, "we didn't want to change it; we didn't want to ruin it."

Bang and Blame

So. Again Taninami asks, how can you make competition fun? Here, Taninami paused, as if waiting for an answer. Who do we like to play network games with: friends, brothers, neighbors? He asks where we go to play: do we go home? Somewhere we can see the other people? To study PC game culture, Taninami spent some time attending LAN parties. At length he concluded that these parties are the environment "that lets games sell one million copies".

Although clearly there is no analog to LAN parties in Japan, Taninami made a comparison to Internet cafes – not the coffee bars with WiFi access you might see in downtown San Francisco; the distinctly Asian phenomenon of an immense, climate-controlled complex of cubicles: pay by the hour, do whatever you want. Free drinks. Even sleep in the overstuffed chairs, if you want; it's cheaper than a hotel. People live in these places. And in places like Taipei, Hong Kong, and Korea, they are the hotspots of PC game culture.

The benefits of a cafe are multifold: if you get bored with the game, you have friends nearby to chum with. And for get-togethers online multiplayer is better than, say, a Game Boy link cable in that if your friend gets bored and drops connection, you can still hook up and play. Besides, Taninami says, linking together a couple of Game Boys looks kind of awkward when you're an adult.

What might be the closest Japanese parallel, though, is the fabled beast known as the video arcade – and the phenomenon of "versus cabs", most frequently used for one-on-one fighting games. Taninami explained how, when Street Fighter II was released, rival players stood or sat side-by-side on the same cabinet. This arrangement was all right if the competitors were friends; otherwise, sometimes it was a a bit too close. With the versus cab, two interfaces are placed back-to-back, putting the length of one double-deep machine between the players – a comfortable distance, for the outgroup-adverse. And yet players are still close enough to discourage cheating – as if you try to pull anything, your opponent can just step right over and kick your ass.

Arcade-based card and mahjong games work the same way, and they pull in 100 billion yen a year – exactly the same figure as the Korean network game market. Kind of makes you think. Sort of.

Go Away From Me, Just Go Away

Taninami jumped to the side a bit, to discuss the phenomenon of Japanese Go parlors; how there is a tutorial service for beginners, and a certain mode of etiquette against opponents. Players are given ranks (out of thirty-five) according to their skill levels, tracked on index cards, and maintained by the parlor. When players arrive, they wait in a room to be matched with another player of their level. Highly-trained hosts sort through the available opponents and use the data at hand and their own judgment to match two players. This is known as a matching service. The hosts call out the players, and hand them their cards. The players who are matched are moved to what is called a "massive server".

This setup and terminology should be familiar to anyone who has played online fighting games in Japan, such as Vampire Chronicle for Matching Service for the Sega Dreamcast. It should also sound familiar to anyone wondering about this "Nintendo Go" thing and what it has to do with the Revolution. To Taninami, it was just the cultural template he was looking for. Of course; this is how a network game must work. And thus he built his own Go parlor. Sort of.

[Continue "GDC: The Localization of Counter-Strike in Japan"] (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060327/waugh_01.shtml)

<hr>

This might be one of the more interesting and astute articles on gaming i've read in years; that says more about the state of gaming articles in general than this specific one. If you have some time, read through it all.

[Joe Molotov]

Japanese gamers suck. I mean, we play all their fruity games, the least they can do is play our FPS's without adding cherry blossoms, minigames, anime characters, hairy guys in fatigues (?), and etiquette that includes special treatment for newbies (WTF???). :lol:

[Breakfast with Girls]

So, in conclusion, turn Counter-Strike into a different game and take it out of the home and into an arcade-style place. :lol:

[Derrich]

I dont get it. We eat up all the crazy loony anime thats shipped over here, but heaven forbid Japanese gamers have to endure a character with hairy arms.

D

[Giantrobo]

I love how the same culture that gives us some of the most disgusting degrading porn can't handle American video games without cute characters, corny music, and pretty colors.

I'm sure the usual, "American Games Suck!" crowd will chime in soon... :lol:

[kakihara1]

I love how the same culture that gives us some of the most disgusting degrading porn can't handle American video games without cute characters, corny music, and pretty colors.

I'm sure the usual, "American Games Suck!" crowd will chime in soon... :lol:

That's funny and it couldn't be more true. :)

But still the Japanese know how to make great games...........and super filthy porn :D

I hadn't really thought about it but true to my username I watch a shitload of Asian movies and Takashi Miike is one of my favorite directors anyone who's seen his films know that not only is there porn industry disturbing but with the likes of Visitor Q, Ichi the Killer, and Audition, their whole film industry is pretty fucked up as well.........so they can handle the ultraviolent films but not the games eh? Oh well let us make the ultraviolent games and they can continue to make films and super cool games. :)

[dugan]

While we're at it, there's another really good article on localizing videogames here:

MultiLingual Computing Inc - Games Localization: Production and Testing (http://www.multilingual.com/FMPro?-db=archives&-format=ourpublication%2ffeaturedarticlesdetail.htm&-recid=33501&-find=)

Like the article we're discussing, it also brings up a lot of points that I had never considered before reading it.

[Josh H]

That's pretty lame.

I don't like games like Counterstrike because of the gameplay. I couldn't give a shit less what the characters look like.

Similarly, I don't like the japanese games I love because of the characters either, but because I like the style of gameplay.

Pretty silly to change all that up. If it won't sell over there, don't release it over there. Just like we don't get the dating sims and other "too odd" japanese games over here.

[kvrdave]

Culture is a curious thing. While most Japanese games are a little too weird for me, I don't like most of the counter strike genre either, so it isn't difficult to imagine that there is a culture that it doesn't really appeal to.

I always figured that because of Japan's huge population density, people liked to escape other people when engaging in recreational pursuits. I would.

[tor_greg]

I understand putting head-to-head machines in arcades, though. Over there arcades are HUGE, the PC market being tiny.

[kakihara1]

While we're at it, there's another really good article on localizing videogames here:

MultiLingual Computing Inc - Games Localization: Production and Testing (http://www.multilingual.com/FMPro?-db=archives&-format=ourpublication%2ffeaturedarticlesdetail.htm&-recid=33501&-find=)

Like the article we're discussing, it also brings up a lot of points that I had never considered before reading it.

Good Read :thumbsup:

[greydt]

I love how the same culture that gives us some of the most disgusting degrading porn can't handle American video games without cute characters, corny music, and pretty colors.

I'm sure the usual, "American Games Suck!" crowd will chime in soon... :lol:


Wow, I shouldn't be surprised by the amount of ignorant knee-jerk reactions to the article, but I guess it surprises me that even professed gamers can still act like the "Ugly American".

I'm getting a sense from people like Giantrobo, Joe Molotov, Derrich, etc. that it isn't even about the changes made to Counter-Strike, but a "Rah Rah USA! USA!" mode of thought. First of all, none of this affects how we play Counter-Strike here in the US. Second, it's an interesting article on how someone is attempting to localize a game popular elsewhere but not locally: whether it works is questionable, but the presumed cultural difference is interesting to see nonethless.

Seeing that I'm a "American Game" PC Gamer, I guess I'm outside of Giantrobo's "crowd" to chime in how incorrect he is :lol:

[Draven]

I think the overriding point is that American gamers, for the most part, seem to be able to accept a Japanese-style game without a lot of stylechanges (I know a lot of gamers don't like that style, but it's more of a "either you like it or you don't" mindset.) But it seems that in order for a Western-style game to be accepted, it has to be "Japanesed-up" first.

So it comes across that Japanese gamers are only interested in Japanese-styled games, whereas American gamers seem to be more accepting of Japan's way of doing things. Not trying to be ignorant or racist or anything, just the way that it appears to me.

[kakihara1]

Wow, I shouldn't be surprised by the amount of ignorant knee-jerk reactions to the article, but I guess it surprises me that even professed gamers can still act like the "Ugly American".

I'm getting a sense from people like Giantrobo, Joe Molotov, Derrich, etc. that it isn't even about the changes made to Counter-Strike, but a "Rah Rah USA! USA!" mode of thought. First of all, none of this affects how we play Counter-Strike here in the US. Second, it's an interesting article on how someone is attempting to localize a game popular elsewhere but not locally: whether it works is questionable, but the presumed cultural difference is interesting to see nonethless.

Seeing that I'm a "American Game" PC Gamer, I guess I'm outside of Giantrobo's "crowd" to chime in how incorrect he is :lol:

Dude What??! I didn't read that as Rah Rah anything just pointing out that Japanese Culture doesn't deem ultraviolence or the otherwise extreme on film as being anything to scoff at but western style games which in contrast would be considered tame do. /ignorant knee-jerk reaction

[fujishig]

I think the overriding point is that American gamers, for the most part, seem to be able to accept a Japanese-style game without a lot of stylechanges (I know a lot of gamers don't like that style, but it's more of a "either you like it or you don't" mindset.) But it seems that in order for a Western-style game to be accepted, it has to be "Japanesed-up" first.

So it comes across that Japanese gamers are only interested in Japanese-styled games, whereas American gamers seem to be more accepting of Japan's way of doing things. Not trying to be ignorant or racist or anything, just the way that it appears to me.

I don't think this generalization can be made. Sure, FPS's aren't huge in Japan, as they were mainly developed for computers in the US. But you can't really say that Americans are more "accepting." For one thing, American gamers for the most part grew up on Japanese-style games, be it Mario or Final Fantasy, so it's not a foreign concept to them. For another, we don't get half of the funky games that the Japanese enjoy... sure, recently we've gotten stuff like Katamari Damacy and Phoenix Wright, but EGM does a whole feature every month on quirky Japanese games that will never come out here.

Though the changes were smaller than the ones done to Counterstrike, let's look at DragonQuest VIII, where the developers felt they needed to add voices and make a graphical (instead of pure text) menu system for the US release.

Ah, they are two totally different markets, and companies have to cater to that. If this takes off, Microsoft should be very excited. Let's see how this localization goes. What's interesting is that we have a group of gamers in the states who hate any changes localization teams make... somehow I doubt there are many similar fans in Japan.

[Joe Molotov]

Wow, I shouldn't be surprised by the amount of ignorant knee-jerk reactions to the article, but I guess it surprises me that even professed gamers can still act like the "Ugly American".

I'm getting a sense from people like Giantrobo, Joe Molotov, Derrich, etc. that it isn't even about the changes made to Counter-Strike, but a "Rah Rah USA! USA!" mode of thought. First of all, none of this affects how we play Counter-Strike here in the US. Second, it's an interesting article on how someone is attempting to localize a game popular elsewhere but not locally: whether it works is questionable, but the presumed cultural difference is interesting to see nonethless.

Seeing that I'm a "American Game" PC Gamer, I guess I'm outside of Giantrobo's "crowd" to chime in how incorrect he is :lol:

Please, save you righteous indignation. :lol: I'm just amused at the fact that American games have been eating up Japanese games for decades, but yet Japanese gamers flat out refuse to buy American games (or American gaming consoles) unless, according to this article anyway, it get's animied up for them. I'll gladly retract my amusement if you can present some hard evidence to prove that this is not true.

[Josh H]

I'm just amused at the fact that American games have been eating up Japanese games for decades, but yet Japanese gamers flat out refuse to buy American games (or American gaming consoles) .


The Japanese just have good taste in games, like us American gamers that prefer japanese developed games. ;)

[Derrich]

It's not that Japanese games are better. Some are, some arent. But at least we get to choose. Japanese gamers refuse to even consider that a US made game(or console) can be good. For the most part, when a Japanese game comes to the US it gets new voices and translations, and maybe a tweak in the difficulty. But from the article, it seems that for an american game to be accepted in Japan, it has to be completly de-americanized to the point where it's not really identifiable.

D

[Giantrobo]

Wow, I shouldn't be surprised by the amount of ignorant knee-jerk reactions to the article, but I guess it surprises me that even professed gamers can still act like the "Ugly American".

I'm getting a sense from people like Giantrobo, Joe Molotov, Derrich, etc. that it isn't even about the changes made to Counter-Strike, but a "Rah Rah USA! USA!" mode of thought. First of all, none of this affects how we play Counter-Strike here in the US. Second, it's an interesting article on how someone is attempting to localize a game popular elsewhere but not locally: whether it works is questionable, but the presumed cultural difference is interesting to see nonethless.

Seeing that I'm a "American Game" PC Gamer, I guess I'm outside of Giantrobo's "crowd" to chime in how incorrect he is :lol:

Ah man spare me the bullshit. We were just having fun you baby. :lol:

I thought the article was funny, informative, and <i>very</i> typical of the Japanese. I say that having been a HUGE fan of Japanese culture/games/toys/ Sci fi and other stuff since the mid 70's ,when many here were still shittin' their diapers, and having married a Japanese woman.

Also Girlfriend, It's not about "Rah Rah America" or anything like that. Hell, most things get "localized" for different countries when they get sent from America and it's no big deal.

[Giantrobo]

The Japanese just have good taste in games, like us American gamers that prefer japanese developed games. ;)

That's fine and it's cool that you guys have found your "thing". No one cares. Just don't look down on the rest of us for feeling differently or being able to have a wider range of tastes in games . ;):p

[PixyJunket]

I think it's important to note that, while they may be adding an "anime" element to this game, that's certainly not the main detractor in the graphical style of this game. There are plenty of Japanese games that have a more realistic look to them.. the difference is, of course, there's some fucking design behind them. Most, but certainly not all, American made games are ugly as shit.. soulless visuals that appear to have been generated completely via computer algorithms with zero human design. Do American companies (other than Blizzard) have art departments? Does somebody actually sit down and design the generic soldiers in your typical FPS game or do they simple call pre-defined functions from their development kits: draw_solider(), draw_tree()..? Neither would surprise me.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a "fanboy" slant or attack or anything like that (I just bought Midnight Club 3!).. it's just my observation being in the world of gaming for 20+ years. Discarding the notion of gameplay, from a visual standpoint Japanese developers seem to be FAR more vested in video/computer gaming as a means of creating fantasy worlds while American developers seem to be obsessed with emulating reality. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that because of this difference in regards to design, it's common to see a lot of Japanese games remain in people's hearts and minds because of their characters and worlds while a lot of American games seem to be forgotten once the newest game comes out boasting a higher poly-count, poop-mapping or gyro-lighting.

[Josh H]

Discarding the notion of gameplay, from a visual standpoint Japanese developers seem to be FAR more vested in video/computer gaming as a means of creating fantasy worlds while American developers seem to be obsessed with emulating reality

Exactly. Besides gameplay, that's the reason I prefer Japanese developed games. As I've said countless times, I play games to escape from the world for a bit. As such, games in a well designed fantasy setting work much better than the typical western game that is just trying to recreate the real world as accurately as possible.

[mmconhea]

that kind of stuff I do for a living.
Converting US games to Japanese games is really so difficult, a lot of US companies don't even try.
this specific game makes for a great case study, because a lot of thought was put into it. But I would consider it a net loss because there is no way this game is going to make it in that market. The social climate in Japan for network games is really not action-oriented- it's turn-based. There would have to be a revolution for CS to be a hit. It would be like an on-line Japanese version of GO making it big here.

thanks for the article- Gamasutra does have a lot of other great localization articles on it.
Localizing games really is tough work compared to other material.

[Josh H]

Just don't look down on the rest of us for feeling differently or being able to have a wider range of tastes in games . ;):p

It was a joke. I'm not going to really look down on somone for the type of games they like or don't like. :D To each his own.

Hell I play games only a couple hours a week, so why should I care. :D

[Gallant Pig]

I think the Japanese culture, aside from Hollywood and weird little fetish things they aquire from other places (chihuahaus), is pretty closed to the outside world. I doubt you'd see Fords or Chevy's if you went there.

[chess]

... it's just my observation being in the world of gaming for 20+ years. Discarding the notion of gameplay, from a visual standpoint Japanese developers seem to be FAR more vested in video/computer gaming as a means of creating fantasy worlds while American developers seem to be obsessed with emulating reality. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that because of this difference in regards to design, it's common to see a lot of Japanese games remain in people's hearts and minds because of their characters and worlds while a lot of American games seem to be forgotten once the newest game comes out boasting a higher poly-count, poop-mapping or gyro-lighting.

I can't recall the last time I agreed so much with a post...though I like to think things are leveling out a bit with some of the smaller American developers coming up with some innovative stuff.

For example, I think Retro Studios hit a home run with Metroid, and Rockstar has a pretty good track record with the GTA series.

Still, all of the top 5 developers in the world are Japanese...at least in my opinion:

Nintendo, Capcom, Konami, Sega, Namco

EA probably kills them all in actual sales, but EA is also the perfect example of everything I think is wrong with video games right now. Cookie cutter games with gradually prettier graphics. Blech.

[PixyJunket]

I think the Japanese culture, aside from Hollywood and weird little fetish things they aquire from other places (chihuahaus), is pretty closed to the outside world. I doubt you'd see Fords or Chevy's if you went there.Incorrect. American (and European) cultures are quite popular in Japan. Food, gadgets, clothes, etc.

Just because they only sold 10 Xboxes in Japan does not mean they're xenophobic.

[chess]

...I doubt you'd see Fords or Chevy's if you went there.

For precisely the same reason you can't sell an X-box there.

[fujishig]

I would argue that games like Ratchet and Clank are pretty good games... and actually they were well-recieved by Japan as well. Wait a second, they were anime'd up too!!!

http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/japanboxes/japanboxes.htm

the R&C boxes are the only ones in that article where I prefer the American artwork...
That Backyard wrestling one is classic.

[Breakfast with Girls]

I would argue that games like Ratchet and Clank are pretty good games... and actually they were well-recieved by Japan as well. Wait a second, they were anime'd up too!!!

http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/japanboxes/japanboxes.htm

the R&C boxes are the only ones in that article where I prefer the American artwork...
That Backyard wrestling one is classic.Hey, that's pretty interesting. I really like the covers for Psi-Ops, Prince of Persia, Crimson Skies, Ratchet & Clank 2, and especially Sudeki when compared to the Western ones. The only ones that are really worse are Halo, Ghost Recon, and Killzone.

<img src="http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/japanboxes/sudeki-j.jpg">

[Gallant Pig]

For precisely the same reason you can't sell an X-box there.

Size? Last time I checked, Japanese sedans are about the same size as American ones.

[kakihara1]

^^ Maybe he was calling the Xbox a POS just like American cars?

[chess]

^^ Maybe he was calling the Xbox a POS just like American cars?

Possibly, but that would be console bashing! ;)

American cars are largely OK. They are big, comfortable, and powerful. But I drive a couple of 7-8 year old Japanese cars for a reason...just like I play Japanese games for a reason: Ingenuity and Quality

I'm not saying the Americans can't make cars. They get it right sometimes and are getting better.

Maybe the 360 will be the one that they get right. I actually really like the 360. It's a good looking system with good specs, a nice controller, and a great online service. It sort of reminds me of the Dreamcast, and I mean that in a good way. Unfortunately, the first Xbox had zero exclusive games that looked interesting to me...and as such, I never really gave it a second thought. Thus far, they seem to be making similar games for the 360.

Whoever brought up R&C, I couldn't agree more. Great example of a great American game. Amazingly, it was built on the platform of another game, and it felt original while the base game felt derivitive. Anyway, I consider it the exception...and there was certainly nothing that imiginative and well executed on the X-box that I was aware of.

All I'm saying, is we can't blame the Japanese for not buying our gaming systems and games (or cars for that matter) when we simply haven't proven that we can make them worth a damn.

[Giantrobo]

The Japanese are the Ultimate Escapist.

Realistic games just aren't their cup of tea and <b>that's fine</b>. But again, just because something isn't popular in Japan, or America for that matter, that doesn't mean it sucks or isn't of any value somewhere else.

[Gallant Pig]

All I'm saying, is we can't blame the Japanese for not buying our gaming systems and games (or cars for that matter) when we simply haven't proven that we can make them worth a damn.

Or their closed culture won't accept outsider games (or cars). Do they buy European cars? I guess that would prove me right or wrong depending on the answer. I honestly don't know.

[Josh H]

Realistic games just aren't their cup of tea and <b>that's fine</b>. But again, just because something isn't popular in Japan, or America for that matter, that doesn't mean it sucks or isn't of any value somewhere else.

And I don't think anyone has seriously implied otherwise. I'm not going to say GTA sucks just because it's not my cup of tea. There are plenty of games out there that fit my tastes.

At the same time, I'm not going to talk shit about the Japanese not wanting some of our games if they're not localized drastically. It's no different from most of their quirkiest games never getting released here because no one would by them.

I guess one could call that being a closed culture if one likes, but I think it comes across as condescending.

Especially with games. They're a time waster....a hobby. Nothing more, nothing less. So I don't see where it warrants calling a culture "closed" when they just want to limit their hobby gaming activities to the types of games they like.

Gaming is not really an area like say, literature or art, where broadening your horizons is going to improve your intellect and perspective and make you a better person. :D

[kakihara1]

Or their closed culture won't accept outsider games (or cars). Do they buy European cars? I guess that would prove me right or wrong depending on the answer. I honestly don't know.

Not really, you'll see the occassional BMW or whatever but that's mostly the wealthy there, same goes in S. Korea but you also see some Caddies, I think the average car buyer mostly goes for the conventional vehicle there and our cars and european cars for that matter aren't all that readily available. The Japanese do appreciate our classic cars though.

[PixyJunket]

Or their closed culture won't accept outsider games (or cars). Do they buy European cars? I guess that would prove me right or wrong depending on the answer. I honestly don't know.Repeat: Japan is not a closed culture. They do not like FPS games. There is a difference.

[Gallant Pig]

Repeat: Japan is not a closed culture. They do not like FPS games. There is a difference.

Do they like any of our non-FPS games, like Morrowind, Elder Scrolls IV, GTA, The Sims, Age of Empires, Knights of the Old Republic or 50 Cent: Bulletproof?

(don't get your feathers ruffles, I through The Sims in there as a joke)

[Josh H]

But again, not liking certain genres of games doesn't make them a closed culture.

Gaming is a hobby, and there's nothing wrong with limiting yourself to what you enjoy in your hobbies as I said above. There not passing on them because they are western, they are passing because they don't enjoy the style and gameplay.

[fujishig]

And they're wondering why US gamers are so closed minded that we don't run out in droves to buy games based on mahjong, horse racing, UNO, or dating sims. I'm sure they also ponder why we buy these crappy WWE wrestling games instead of just getting the graphically-inferior-but-otherwise-superior-in-every-aspect Firepro series.

[Gallant Pig]

But again, not liking certain genres of games doesn't make them a closed culture.

Gaming is a hobby, and there's nothing wrong with limiting yourself to what you enjoy in your hobbies as I said above. There not passing on them because they are western, they are passing because they don't enjoy the style and gameplay.

That's true. I'm just trying to figure out if Japan won't accept our games because they don't like them, or they see them as outsider games that they won't give a chance.

I guess Japan doesn't like one genre in which the US game deverlopers have created good games (RPG, RTS, platformer, etc). I guess it's not because they view the games and gamestyle as western gajin games that aren't worthy of being played, but rather they don't enjoy the style. Fair enough.

However I'll still say there's a strong perception to the world that Japan's culture ISN'T accepting of other cultures, and the gaming culture there is just part of the great picture. whether it's true or not may be debatable. Definitely not clear cut.

[Gallant Pig]

And they're wondering why US gamers are so closed minded that we don't run out in droves to buy games based on mahjong, horse racing, UNO, or dating sims. I'm sure they also ponder why we buy these crappy WWE wrestling games instead of just getting the graphically-inferior-but-otherwise-superior-in-every-aspect Firepro series.

And we can say to them, look we ARE open minded, we enjoy and play many of your games. I guess the answer to what games they play of ours would be crickets chirping. ;)

[PixyJunket]

However I'll still say there's a strong perception to the world that Japan's culture ISN'T accepting of other cultures, and the gaming culture there is just part of the great picture. whether it's true or not may be debatable. Definitely not clear cut.Clear cut? There's also a strong perception that all black people are criminals, all Muslims are terrorists and everybody from the south is a redneck.. I'll let you work out the rest of the puzzle from there.

[Josh H]

I guess Japan doesn't like one genre in which the US game deverlopers have created good games (RPG, RTS, platformer, etc). I guess it's not because they view the games and gamestyle as western gajin games that aren't worthy of being played, but rather they don't enjoy the style. Fair enough.


That's my take on it. Hell, I don't like those style of games and I'm not Japanese. :D

And I do think some western platformers like Ratchet and Clank have sold pretty well over there, just not American RPGs, RTS games, FPS etc.

And American Movies and Music are pretty popular over there as I undertand it from my Japanese friend, so I don't think it's a cultural rejection thing, but rather that they just don't enjoy the styles of games western developers excel in.

[fumanstan]

How is something like... say the Splinter Cell series recieved over in Japan? That would be interesting to compare it's success with Metal Gear Solid.

[tenaciousdave]

I do enjoy a fair bit of Japanese games, particularly Nintendo first party and RPGs. I also enjoy a fair bit of western games. Although I will go ahead say that the GTA series sucks. Most overrated series of all time.

I'm curious to know how the Japanese will like Oblivion. It's quickly become my all time favorite RPG.

It's the most open ended and engaging RPG ever made. Good story, tons of side quests, gorgeous graphics, and brilliant art direction. The freedom to make the exact charcter you want, choose how he or she looks, what skills are they good at, are you an evil murderer or are you a valiant hero? I define the role that I play.

I'm getting tired of playing the same story with every new Japanese RPG that comes along. It's been a variation of the same story for about 15 years now. A young boy/teenage boy must save the world from some ancient evil. He gets together with a rag tag group of people and goes out adventuring in a land of random encounters.

[Chris_D]

Baldurs Gate 2 is still better than any japanese rpg in my book, but then I don't consider japanese "rpgs" to actually be real Role Playing Games anyway. I've no idea what Japanese gamers do if they want to play a real computer rpg, I would assume that mmorpgs are the only option for them.

[Chris_D]

I'd play more dating games if I could understand them :p. It's true that Japan is more close minded than some western countries, but in many ways they have adopted more western values and cultures than any other asian country. I think it's a matter of time as the world becomes more global that more western things will be adopted (and vice-versa). Also some games like Halo actually do have an admittedly small, but very vocal following over here.

[Chris_D]

The other interesting thing is that while rts might not be so popular over here in Japan, Koreans seem to eat rts for breakfast.

[Giantrobo]

I'm getting tired of playing the same story with every new Japanese RPG that comes along. It's been a variation of the same story for about 15 years now. A young boy/teenage boy must save the world from some ancient evil. He gets together with a rag tag group of people and goes out adventuring in a land of random encounters.

That's the thing that's so interesting about the Japanese. Yes, they can come up with some very creative stuff. But at the same time they seem to really LOVE the same shit over and over. It's just repackaged and tweaked a bit.

[Josh H]

But at the same time they seem to really LOVE the same shit over and over. It's just repackaged and tweaked a bit.

That's true of everywhere.

We eat up sequels to video games that are just the same shit as well. Look at all the games lately that get a new version every year that's exactly the same as the old one, just with new levels and a new move or two (Ratchet and Clank, Jak, Sly Cooper, all sports games, 900 versions of stret fighter 2, etc. etc. etc.).

And that's not factoring in the 10 rip offs of every popular game. The GTA serious did great, look how many knockoffs came out and are still coming out to this day.

[tenaciousdave]

That's true of everywhere.

We eat up sequels to video games that are just the same shit as well. Look at all the games lately that get a new version every year that's exactly the same as the old one, just with new levels and a new move or two (Ratchet and Clank, Jak, Sly Cooper, all sports games, 900 versions of stret fighter 2, etc. etc. etc.).

And that's not factoring in the 10 rip offs of every popular game. The GTA serious did great, look how many knockoffs came out and are still coming out to this day.

You're right, the same is true with most creative mediums. Books, film, music, and games tend to copy the same ideas over and over, no matter what region they're from.

Although I notice that MOST Japanese RPGs have near the exact same storyline. 15 years of it is a bit much though.

I find it funny that you brought up Street Fighter since it's Japanese, but I understood your point anyways. ;)

[Giantrobo]

That's true of everywhere.

We eat up sequels to video games that are just the same shit as well. Look at all the games lately that get a new version every year that's exactly the same as the old one, just with new levels and a new move or two (Ratchet and Clank, Jak, Sly Cooper, all sports games, 900 versions of stret fighter 2, etc. etc. etc.).

And that's not factoring in the 10 rip offs of every popular game. The GTA serious did great, look how many knockoffs came out and are still coming out to this day.



Maybe, but the Japanese tend to take it to a whole new level.

[Josh H]

They're no worse that us in that regard. It's just the way the entertainment business works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And with gamers around the world buying the same old shit over and over, they have little incentive to stop.

I'll admit RPG plots are stale. But what do you expect? The stories will never be top notch as the best story writers are going to be doing books and screenplays where they can make more money, have there work seen by more people, and be doing something more widely respected.

[Giantrobo]

They're no worse that us in that regard. It's just the way the entertainment business works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And with gamers around the world buying the same old shit over and over, they have little incentive to stop.

I'll admit RPG plots are stale. But what do you expect? The stories will never be top notch as the best story writers are going to be doing books and screenplays where they can make more money, have there work seen by more people, and be doing something more widely respected.


They are slightly "worse" than us in that regard. It's not necessarily a bad thing because what works for them is their business. Understand that I'm not trying put the Japanese down it's just an observation I've had for many many years having been a fan of Japanese culture/entertainment since the 70's. It's a "Tradition thing".

Either way we'll agree to disagree on this.