uteotw

This is about DirecTV's HD-DVR equipment and their new "deal," so I wasn't sure if I should put it under "gear" or "store." Anyway...

I've had DirecTV for 5 years and like it. However, I have an HD-ready TV and a DirecTivo and wanted to upgrade to the HD-DVR. First it was $1000, then it went to $599 w/a $200 mail-in rebate (so total $399).

(1) Does anyone know if DirecTV's HD-DVR is any good, first and foremost, and

(2) I got this email from DirecTV:

"Customers who are setting up their DIRECTV service for the first time, or current customers who want to upgrade or add a DIRECTV receiver after March 1, will lease that equipment from DIRECTV instead of buying it.

You continue to own your current DIRECTV equipment and any Additional Receiver Fees you pay to mirror your monthly programming to all your TV’s will still apply. The only differences for you are that after March 1:

1. You will no longer need to purchase equipment when you add receivers or upgrade your DIRECTV system.
2. You will be charged a monthly lease fee for any receivers you add or upgrade instead of paying an additional receiver fee.; And the great news is that leasing will offer you a substantial savings compared to the true cost of buying the equipment."

What I don't get is the "lease" costs $499, whereas it cost $399 to BUY the equipment a week ago. Will someone please tell me if the equipment's worth it and what the heck I'm missing on this "lease" option?

Thanks.

Chew

I don't think you're missing anything with this lease option. It's clearly just a change to make people think they're getting a better deal, when it's not.

IMO (and I've tried them ALL), the HD TiVo is the best HD DVR out there. When it works. The software is what makes it the best. The hardware, on the other hand, has HDMI issues and early versions had fatal harddrive issues.

Based on the early reviews of their new SD DVR (which is TiVoless), DirecTV has taken a major backstep in their software. Many problems.

The HD TiVo should be good for about 2-3 more years before they completely switch over to the mpeg4 standard (which it can't handle).

It really comes down to waiting for a DVR that has serious software problems now, but is ready for the future (the forthcoming TiVoless HD DVR) or a DVR with potentially serious hardware problems but the best software out there.

I made the choice of sticking with DirecTV and the HD TiVo. Unless the new DVR is improved, I'll be looking elsewhere.

ShagMan

Don't the DVR's still need a phone line to sync? We've been phone-line-less (cell phones) for about four years, and that's always been the deal-breaker for us.

Caliking

my buddy uses his dvr with no phone line. i asked him about it and called BS on having to have a phone line. i hope im not leading you astray, just telling you he does it with no line.

Chew

Dish requires a phoneline or will charge you $5/month without it.

DirecTV claims to require it, but you only need it to activate your DVR (essentially, just one phonecall) and then just have to put up with nag messages. They also claim to charge $5/month without it, but don't enforce that.

When I got my replacement HD TiVo, I just took it over to my parents house and used their line as I only have a cell phone too.

Spiky

You need the phone line for PPV. That's it, really.

Eddie W

I hate to say it, having been a loyal DirecTV customer for the past 9 years....but I think this will be the straw to send me back to cable. Not only do they drop Tivo & replace it with an (allegedly) inferior product, but now they want me to pay the same price I paid to own the Tivo DVR, to "lease" the non-Tivo one? And a monthly lease fee on top of that???

I think Comcast must have a mole in desicion-making postions at DirecTV.

atdamico

I didn't read that. I read that it only applies to new customers or customers looking to upgrade. If you currently have the equipment and service you want and are happy, nothing changes at all.

Eddie W

You're correct, except that I don't want to stagnate with what I have now. I want my locals and new HD channels as they're added. Which in the very near future, will likely be MPEG-4 only. What I have is fine for now, but as it becomes obsolete Comcast is looking like a superior alternative. Especially if they reach an agreement with Tivo.

Has anyone heard whether the dish itself will still be purchased? Or will we also have to pay $100 up front to 'lease' it?

uteotw

As far as I can tell, with Comcast you lease the equipment and pay a monthly fee, but the DirecTV you "lease" the equipment by dropping down hundreds or dollars upfront and ALSO paying a monthly fee. It just makes no sense and agree they must have a Comcast mole making these crazy business decisions.

No one's called me yet but if/when they do I'll ask all these questions and post the answers. Like posted above this could be what pushes me away from DirecTV after 5+ years...

Spiky

The dish will still be free. If you guys are talking about upgrading from a current HDTivo to the new DVR when available, that will not cost anything. They will upgrade for free, or maybe a small install fee. Certainly not another $400 for a lease when swapping for the old equipment.

This sounds like capital leases (like a car) rather than the cable box style of lease. But I haven't read the fine print. Dish has been doing this for quite some time, D* is simply matching it.

uteotw

Well, I got a call from DirecTV last night and that really is the "deal." It's not a "capital lease" because you don't have the option to buy it at the end of the term. It's really unlike any lease I've ever heard of: For the HD-DVR and off-air antenna you pay $549 up front plus a monthly fee of $10.99. Whereas you could, for a while, buy the same thing for $449 (after rebate), now you pay more and don't own it.

Now, I think a real lease would be the way to go since it could be junky and the technology is sure to change rapidly, so it'd be nice to be able to trade in for a new one, but I'm not going to shell out $549 upfront to do so.

From what I understand--and please correct me if I'm wrong--Comcast also has the lease setup but there is no major outlay of cash up front; you simply pay a monthly fee and lease but do not own the equipment. This seems much better to me, and for the first time in 5 years of thinking seriously of switching over.

I just can't get over the fact that a bunch of guys sat around a table and thought this would be a good idea (but then again they also used to sell HD-DVRs not that long ago for $1,000). I guess if there are enough people out there willing to shell out $549 for a lease plus the monthly fee it will be a good idea. I just know I won't be one of those people.

Jeremy517

The $10.99 is the monthly fee for the HD package, not a lease fee for the DVR.

Chew

Although you still do have the monthly DVR fee, which I think is $6 now.

Jeremy517

Yeah, but that isn't a lease fee either. You have to pay that whether you own the box or not, like you have to pay a monthly fee for standalone TiVo. It also covers every DVR in the house (although additional DVRs would still have to pay the second receiver fee).

The monthly combined DVR+HD fees are only $1 more than Comcast. Comcast is $5/month for HD and $10 for DVR, so $15 a month. Receivers/DVRs in a second room are far cheaper with DTV than Comcast.

Spiky

I think that's $5 for HD or $10 for DVR. Not added together. D* charges one $6 DVR fee regardless of how many DVRs you have. They also charge $5/box. Formerly it was $5/box with the first box free, but I don't know if the lease terms still have this.

So, it's a bit cheaper per month for D*, but not a whole lot. Just speaking of box rental/fees. Programming is usually cheaper with D*, too. The balance is that you have to pay for the equipment, whether they call it owned or leased.

Spiky

Should add:
We ran the numbers when they first announced this (D* leasing) and discovered that it was identical in terms of dollars to the old purchase plans. The only real difference was the name of some fees, and the fact that you are required to return the equipment at the end. But those are pretty much nothing. If you stick with D* for awhile, the equipment isn't worth anything when you're done, anyway. And if you upgraded something you purchased, you generally traded it in, anyway. Basically the same thing.

I think they are switching to leasing just to make it sound like they are leasing, like Dish and the cable companies. Advertising, no more. The lack of any change in cost to me is my proof. Unless they've changed the rates since this was announced, I haven't checked it out in a month or 2.

Jeremy517

I'm pretty sure that isn't right. There is no way that the price of the non-HD DVR would be the same as the price for the HD DVR + HD service. The $5 for HD is for the HD service, and has nothing to do with the DVR/receiver.

Comcast gives me a quote with both the $9.95/month for a DVR and the $5/month for HDTV service (plus a ridiculous $20/month for a second DVR).

The first box is still free.

Spiky

Oh, I thought you were talking about box rental and comparing the non-DVR with the DVR. I think most places have about $7-8 for non-DVR box rental and $10 for DVR. Speaking of HD boxes only, here. Sorry for confusion.

Why on earth would it be $20 for a 2nd one? Ridiculous might be an understatement.

SexualPudding

This is laughable. The HD-Tivo units were far cheaper not too long ago. I actually got mine for $199 through DirecTV back in October, and of course I own it.

The HD package I believe is either $10.99 or $11.99 a month I believe, not $5. They do charge a monthly DVR fee as well, but they waive it if you have the platinum (or whatever its called) package.

Jeremy517

The $5 HD package that is mentioned is for Comcast, not DirecTV. DirecTV == higher HD package price + lower DVR fee. Comcast == lower HD package price + higher DVR fee. In the end, the monthly fees are pretty comparable, until you start adding additional DVRs.

SexualPudding

Oops, thanks for correcting me..

uteotw

I think you're exactly right, because now it's $549 but no rebates, and before it was $549-$200 rebates but PLUS $99 installation and $14.95 shipping and maybe something else. Either way it's close, but I'm still going to wait. As noted above the prices have been lower at times and I just can't justify $549 right now.

P.S. One funny thing she said on the phone was, "Well, the HD-DVR is one of the best models out there." I said, "What brand is it?" "The DirecTV brand," she replied. OK sure...

Spiky

Well, it is a Hughes box, which is the hardware division related to DirecTV. So that one was not completely inaccurate. There haven't been any other names on the outside of the HD Tivos. They're all built by the same people, though. So comparing them based on the brand name is kinda pointless.

Those deals for $549 or whatever have been fluctuating wildly since last spring when they finally dropped it below $1000. If it's better or worse right now, I don't think that necessarily comes from the leasing program. Some people paid $599 in the last year, some GOT paid once they added up all the programming discounts. I paid $399 after rebate last summer, plus $30 off programming, so $369 I guess.