WASHINGTON - Vice President
Dick Cheney accidentally shot and injured a man during a weekend quail hunting trip in Texas, his spokeswoman said Sunday.
Harry Whittington, 78, was "alert and doing fine" after Cheney sprayed Whittington with shotgun pellets on Saturday at the Armstrong Ranch in south Texas, said property owner Katharine Armstrong.
Armstrong said Cheney turned to shoot a bird and accidentally hit Whittington. She said Whittington was taken to Corpus Christi Memorial Hospital by ambulance.
Cheney's spokeswoman, Lea Anne McBride, said the vice president was with Whittington, a lawyer from Austin, Texas, and his wife at the hospital on Sunday afternoon.
Harry Whittington, a millionaire attorney from Austin, was "alert and doing fine" in a Corpus Christi hospital Sunday after he was shot by Cheney on a ranch in south Texas, said Katharine Armstrong, the property's owner.
The article says Armstrong, the owner of the land is a friend of Cheney, but doesn't describe the relationship with Whittington. I wonder if he is a contributor or lobbiest. Guess he should have given more to the campain....
hahn
02-12-06, 07:35 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the reason that they waited 24 hours for this to come out was to see if he was going to be alright. If he had died, I suspect the official story would've came out much different. See "Jayson Williams" story.
Breakfast with Girls
02-12-06, 07:37 PM
By the way, I think this thread title needs a "...for his pleasure" at the end.
classicman2
02-12-06, 07:59 PM
Whittington has been a private practice attorney in Austin since 1950 and has long been active in Texas Republican politics. He's been appointed to several state boards, including when then-Gov. George W. Bush named him to the Texas Funeral Service Commission.
seen this pic at yahoo's article about this, scary looking the guy looks evil in this pic
Lord Rick
02-12-06, 09:38 PM
Armstrong said Cheney is a longtime friend who comes to the ranch to hunt about once a year and is "a very safe sportsman." She said Whittington is a regular, too, but she thought it was the first time the two men hunted together.
"This is something that happens from time to time. You know, I've been peppered pretty well myself," said Armstrong.
:eek:
By Cheney? I guess when you're the VP you can get away with shooting people occasionally.
:lol:
CaptainMarvel
02-12-06, 10:00 PM
Oh dear, the jokes are never gonna end on this one.
I might actually have to watch the Daily Show to see how far they can whack this softball.
JasonF
02-12-06, 10:06 PM
"Accidentally?" Suuuuuuuuure ...
Nutter
02-12-06, 10:23 PM
That man was terrorizing the ducks I tell you! There can be no exceptions in the war on terror.
Red Dog
02-12-06, 10:29 PM
I can scratch this off my "something I thought I'd never see" list. Aaron Burr gets company on the list of VPs who shot someone while in office.
hahn
02-12-06, 10:34 PM
"Accidentally?" Suuuuuuuuure ...
I think they're just testing the American public. If we give him a pass on this one, they might start trying to float the idea that we invaded Iraq "accidentally" as well.
Gallant Pig
02-12-06, 10:42 PM
Oh dear, the jokes are never gonna end on this one.
I might actually have to watch the Daily Show to see how far they can whack this softball.
Softball? We're in t-ball territory.
dick_grayson
02-12-06, 10:44 PM
it's still better than choking on a pretzel
VinVega
02-12-06, 10:55 PM
:lol: This is one of the funnier threads I've read in a while. Good job kids! :up:
Gallant Pig
02-12-06, 11:00 PM
I can scratch this off my "something I thought I'd never see" list. Aaron Burr gets company on the list of VPs who shot someone while in office.
You think Scalia is going to start faking illness to get out of future Cheney hunting trips? ;)
Red Dog
02-12-06, 11:05 PM
You think Scalia is going to start faking illness to get out of future Cheney hunting trips? ;)
I heard he was interviewed today about the incident. His response: "Quack quack!!" ;)
X
02-12-06, 11:12 PM
It's nice that nobody has taken any real political potshots about this yet...
James and Sarah Brady Comment on the Vice President's Hunting Mishap
2/12/2006 5:40:00 PM
To: National Desk
Contact: Peter Hamm of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, 202-289-5792
WASHINGTON, Feb. 12 /U.S. Newswire/ -- James and Sarah Brady made comments today related to Vice President Cheney's reportedly accidental shooting yesterday in Texas.
"Now I understand why Dick Cheney keeps asking me to go hunting with him," said Jim Brady. "I had a friend once who accidentally shot pellets into his dog - and I thought he was an idiot."
"I've thought Cheney was scary for a long time," Sarah Brady said. "Now I know I was right to be nervous."
Red Dog
02-12-06, 11:42 PM
I loved the local news teaser one station had...
"Vice President Cheney Shoots a Man. Story at 11." The delivery was so matter-of-fact.
:lol:
Myster X
02-13-06, 12:15 AM
Can Bush pardon Cheney if he's guilty of attempted-manslaughter?
This one cracks me up. :lol:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6167/john20kerry20hunting2049aa.jpg
Myster X
02-13-06, 01:13 AM
According to Texas' criminal law, Cheney might be guilty. :D
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.005.00.000022.00.htm
§ 22.05. DEADLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an
offense if he recklessly engages in conduct that places another in
imminent danger of serious bodily injury.
(b) A person commits an offense if he knowingly discharges a
firearm at or in the direction of:
(1) one or more individuals; or
(2) a habitation, building, or vehicle and is reckless
as to whether the habitation, building, or vehicle is occupied.
(c) Recklessness and danger are presumed if the actor
knowingly pointed a firearm at or in the direction of another
whether or not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded.
(d) For purposes of this section, "building," "habitation,"
and "vehicle" have the meanings assigned those terms by Section
30.01.
JasonF
02-13-06, 01:36 AM
I can scratch this off my "something I thought I'd never see" list. Aaron Burr gets company on the list of VPs who shot someone while in office.
Want to know what's really spooky? Howard Dean was on Face the Nation this morning, where he said:
President promised two years ago that he would fire the leaker.
He hasn't kept his promise. Karl Rove is not only still working in the White
House, but he has security clearance. Now it turns out that the vice
president of the United States may have been responsible for those leaks for
political reasons. That is the kind of thing that has not been done to my
knowledge since Aaron Burr was vice president.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_021206.pdf
Mammal
02-13-06, 07:56 AM
What's the Texas Funeral Service Commission?
classicman2
02-13-06, 07:58 AM
What's the Texas Funeral Service Commission?
Texas has a plethora of commissions. They regulate the funeral home business in Texas.
And, of course, there's the Railroad Commission. Everyone wants to be on that one. ;)
Mammal
02-13-06, 08:02 AM
Funeral...Service...sounds like a State-Sponsored assassination squad to me.
The Bus
02-13-06, 08:13 AM
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0780022114.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.gif or http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005JLV6.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
classicman2
02-13-06, 08:14 AM
I bet Cheney would like to get Jack Abramoff out on a quail hunt. Cheney wouldn't be using a shotgun - unless it was loaded with 00 buckshot. ;)
Goldblum
02-13-06, 08:16 AM
According to Texas' criminal law, Cheney might be guilty. :D
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.005.00.000022.00.htm
§ 22.05. DEADLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an
offense if he recklessly engages in conduct that places another in
imminent danger of serious bodily injury.
(b) A person commits an offense if he knowingly discharges a
firearm at or in the direction of:
(1) one or more individuals; or
(2) a habitation, building, or vehicle and is reckless
as to whether the habitation, building, or vehicle is occupied.
(c) Recklessness and danger are presumed if the actor
knowingly pointed a firearm at or in the direction of another
whether or not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded.
(d) For purposes of this section, "building," "habitation,"
and "vehicle" have the meanings assigned those terms by Section
30.01.
Citizen's arrest!!
Mammal
02-13-06, 08:19 AM
Maybe Cheney was putting a contract on...Jackie-Boy? I wish somebody would leak a tape of the Secret Service detail's radio traffic: "Holy shit! He's gone crazy and he's shooting people!"
I've read that before. Happened when he was 13 and really haunted him for the rest of his life.
cdollaz
02-13-06, 11:06 AM
Everything I've seen on this suggests that the guy who got shot is at fault. I've seen quite a few hunting experts (whatever that is) on TV confirm this.
classicman2
02-13-06, 11:07 AM
Everything I've seen on this suggests that the guy who got shot is at fault. I've seen quite a few hunting experts (whatever that is) on TV confirm this.
What else would you expect to hear from Cheney and his entourage? :)
Derrich
02-13-06, 12:10 PM
Everything I've seen on this suggests that the guy who got shot is at fault. I've seen quite a few hunting experts (whatever that is) on TV confirm this.
Wow. Thats a leap and a half. The victim of a shooting is at fault. Not the guy who pulled the trigger. I'll try that one the next time I decide to have a 'hunting accident'.
D
X
02-13-06, 12:22 PM
Wow. Thats a leap and a half. The victim of a shooting is at fault. Not the guy who pulled the trigger. I'll try that one the next time I decide to have a 'hunting accident'.There are some situations where the shooting victim can be mostly at fault.
I heard that the victim in this case came up behind Cheney unannounced and that was a big contributing factor.
GIjon213
02-13-06, 12:42 PM
After I heard the news of this on the morning news, I couldn't wait to get to here and read the thread that I knew was forming. thanks guys for not letting me down!
NCMojo
02-13-06, 12:47 PM
There are some situations where the shooting victim can be mostly at fault.
I heard that the victim in this case came up behind Cheney unannounced and that was a big contributing factor.
True. A lesson I hope all of Dick Cheney's friends will take to heart.
What else would you expect to hear from Cheney and his entourage? :)
None of what I was referring came from Cheney, his entourage, or anyone with any ties to Cheney.
cdollaz
02-13-06, 12:53 PM
Wow. Thats a leap and a half. The victim of a shooting is at fault. Not the guy who pulled the trigger. I'll try that one the next time I decide to have a 'hunting accident'.
D
Before you make an uninformed statement, you may want to find out what happened in this incident.
X
02-13-06, 12:55 PM
Where were Cheney's SS agents?Looks like he didn't need them.
classicman2
02-13-06, 01:02 PM
I think I know what really happened. Harry had killed more birds than Dick, and Dick got pissed off, so he shot Harry. Doesn't that make sense?
H8nXTC
02-13-06, 01:34 PM
I think the most interesting part of this event is that the White House (and the President) supposedly didn't hear about this until 24 HOURS LATER. Yes, the vice president "accidentally" shoots someone with witnesses (including White House secret service agents) and the President isn't bothered to be informed about it until the next day. Maybe all the rumors are true and Dick is really running the country through his puppet?
nemein
02-13-06, 02:57 PM
Yep the WH press corp is all over McClellan about this. Almost makes you feel sorry for Scott, but he hasn't been the best press sec in general so I can't say I do ;) I have to say the press seems to be going out of their way to be asshats w/ the questioning though...
Thor Simpson
02-13-06, 03:02 PM
I think the most interesting part of this event is that the White House (and the President) supposedly didn't hear about this until 24 HOURS LATER.
Don't worry. FEMA wouldn't be there for another week any way.
VinVega
02-13-06, 03:13 PM
Yep the WH press corp is all over McClellan about this. Almost makes you feel sorry for Scott, but he hasn't been the best press sec in general so I can't say I do ;) I have to say the press seems to be going out of their way to be asshats w/ the questioning though...
Oh it's a hate-hate relationship. I don't think either side cares anymore. Those bridges have long since been burned.
The Bus
02-13-06, 03:24 PM
http://boingboing.net/images/12cheney4xx.jpg
natesfortune
02-13-06, 03:38 PM
Don't know if this has been posted yet:
According to Armstrong, who is friends with both the Cheneys and the Whittingtons and set up the two for the hunting trip on her property, a group of hunters was traveling in a vehicle on the ranch when it spotted a covey of quail in the late afternoon.
Armstrong, who remained in the car, said Whittington shot a bird and went to look for it in the tall grass, while Cheney and a third hunter walked to another spot and found a second covey.
Armstrong told FOX News that Cheney, thinking he was the last hunter on the right of the party, turned and fired at a quail. Whittington was standing on lower ground with the sun to his back. He was knocked to the ground, but not knocked out. All members of the hunting party were wearing blaze orange, she said.
"Mr. Whittington decided to join them. He came up from behind the other two hunters, and unfortunately, he did not announce to the hunters he was there and trying to join the line ," Armstrong said. "The vice persident and other hunter believed that Whittington was 200 yards away, when, in fact, he was 30 yards and behind the line."
"I would shoot with Dick Cheney everywhere, anywhere, and not think twice about it," she said. But she said, "The nature of quail shooting ensures that this will happen. It goes with the turf."
I've hunted quail for a hell of a long time, and it's never happened when I've been hunting. I hardly believe it goes with the turf. If it did, you wouldn't have anyone hunting quail.
Bronkster
02-13-06, 03:50 PM
But are you in Texas??
classicman2
02-13-06, 03:50 PM
But are you in Texas??
That's where I've done most of my quail hunting.
I must admit, however, that the people I hunted with weren't as reckless (and not only in hunting) as the VP is. :lol:
movielib
02-13-06, 03:52 PM
This beats Jimmy Carter's rabbit all to hell.
Ranger
02-13-06, 03:59 PM
how powerful is that 28 gauge shotgun? I would think that if one was shot with one of those, death or serious injury would be certain. Where did the bullet hit him? One report said that he was knocked to the ground.
dick_grayson
02-13-06, 03:59 PM
"I would shoot with Dick Cheney everywhere, anywhere, and not think twice about it," she said. But she said, "The nature of quail shooting ensures that this will happen. It goes with the turf."
Yeah, no shit. Since when does getting shot "go with the turf?" That's like a brick thrown at you during a football game and just chuckling, "Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. This is par for the course." Give me a fucking break.
I understand that you don't jump up on someone while hunting, but it's not like they were hunting grizzley bears or flesh-eating zombies or something. And how did this event not trigger another 20 heart attacks for Cheney? Dude's got a bum ticker and accidently shoots a guy and doesn't have any physialogical reaction to the event? That seems kind of weird. I'd imagine a cuckoo clock would be enough to trigger another one.
Breakfast with Girls
02-13-06, 04:07 PM
Yeah, no shit. Since when does getting shot "go with the turf?" That's like a brick thrown at you during a football game and just chuckling, "Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. This is par for the course." Give me a fucking break.You win the Fantastic Analogy Award! Congratulations.
classicman2
02-13-06, 04:08 PM
how powerful is that 28 gauge shotgun? I would think that if one was shot with one of those, death or serious injury would be certain. Where did the bullet hit him? One report said that he was knocked to the ground.
It wasn't a bullet. It was pellets.
How powerful - not as powerful as a 20 gauge, a 16 gauge, a 12 gauge or a 10 gauge. ;)
Fokker's Feint
02-13-06, 04:10 PM
http://dickcheneyquailhunt.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
Ranger
02-13-06, 04:11 PM
I guess not the shotgun the terminator used, eh?
nevermind
02-13-06, 04:24 PM
It's nice that nobody has taken any real political potshots about this yet...
Is there any way to rig up a wheelchair to abruptly change directions when he's hit?
*ding*
gunshot
*ding*
bhk
02-13-06, 04:29 PM
It was fun hearing reports go ape-$hit about not being informed in time.
natesfortune
02-13-06, 04:30 PM
Yeah, no shit. Since when does getting shot "go with the turf?" That's like a brick thrown at you during a football game and just chuckling, "Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. This is par for the course." Give me a fucking break.
That's pretty ridiculous, and I think your Bush Administration hatred is making you lose some perspective here.
Hunting accidents obviously happen all over the place, but people don't get with bricks while playing football. It's not a good analogy at all:
http://www.gunweek.com/2000/french.html
According to the National Office of Hunting, 42 people were killed and 187 wounded in hunting accidents in France last season.
Statistically in Texas, shotgunners tend to be involved in the most hunting accidents — 19 of the 29, or 65 percent, in 2004.
That's because they typically are hunting in close proximity to others and shooting at low-flying, fast-moving targets. Their shotshells contain an average of 250-300 pellets (each barely the size of a pinhead for quail or dives) that scatter in an expanding, cone-shaped path after leaving the barrel.
Dove hunting resulted in more accidents than quail hunting this past year by more than a 3-to-1 margin.
Although Texas doesn't require them to do so, most quail hunters wear bright orange clothing to make themselves more visible.
Cheney and his two hunting companions all were wearing the orange vests when the accident occurred Saturday. Dove hunters, conversely, tend to wear camouflage or drab-colored clothing. Most bird-hunting accidents occur because the gunner swung on a dove or quail that was not in a safe firing zone.
VinVega
02-13-06, 04:39 PM
That's pretty ridiculous, and I think your Bush Administration hatred is making you lose some perspective here.
Hunting accidents obviously happen all over the place, but people don't get with bricks while playing football. It's not a good analogy at all:
http://www.gunweek.com/2000/french.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3654597.html
I think you're reading too much into dick's statement.
The nature of quail shooting ensures that this will happen. It goes with the turf."
That quote makes it sound like a lock that you're gonna get shot while hunting, something that hunters and non hunters alike were disputing. That's all I got out of it. :shrug:
JasonF
02-13-06, 04:39 PM
Hunting accidents obviously happen all over the place, but people don't get with bricks while playing football.
What kind of pussified game of football do you play? I suppose you wear pads and helmets, too. -ohbfrank-
dick_grayson
02-13-06, 04:45 PM
That's pretty ridiculous, and I think your Bush Administration hatred is making you lose some perspective here.
Hunting accidents obviously happen all over the place, but people don't get with bricks while playing football. It's not a good analogy at all:
I realize I'm breaking a personal rule by responding, but I thought it was pretty clear. Saying that getting shot while hunting "goes with the turf" is an absurd statement to make. I realize that it does happen and is probably more common than it sounds, but it is still ridiculous to pretend that it's no big deal. Hence, I made another absurd statement (which you took literally). This is all I'm going to say on the matter, so you can spare me the 5,000 word response.
By the way, my feelings on the matter have nothing to do with how I feel regarding the admin.. It's a nice try to dismiss all criticism as being "hatred for the admin.," but it's still pretty weak and awfully transparent.
H8nXTC
02-13-06, 04:55 PM
I think someone might have hit the nail on the head. The VP didn't want the press to know that Dick had a heart attack after realizing he shot something wearing a blazing orange vest... and it wasn't a quail! This caused his heart an irregular rythm, where he was rushed to the hospital and regained conciousness the next day. He then IMMEDIATELY notified Bush. Good thing Dick and Bush wasn't hunting T & A.
natesfortune
02-13-06, 05:00 PM
I realize I'm breaking a personal rule by responding, but I thought it was pretty clear. Saying that getting shot while hunting "goes with the turf" is an absurd statement to make. I realize that it does happen and is probably more common than it sounds, but it is still ridiculous to pretend that it's no big deal. Hence, I made another absurd statement (which you took literally). This is all I'm going to say on the matter, so you can spare me the 5,000 word response.
By the way, my feelings on the matter have nothing to do with how I feel regarding the admin.. It's a nice try to dismiss all criticism as being "hatred for the admin.," but it's still pretty weak and awfully transparent.
Yeah, no shit. Since when does getting shot "go with the turf?" That's like a brick thrown at you during a football game and just chuckling, "Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. This is par for the course." Give me a fucking break.
I merely ponited out the obvious - that this analogy is exceedingly weak.
Since everybody involved carries guns, it is an obvious risk to get shot while hunting. It also happens all the time, every year, in every state, though surely rare in terms of the overall numbers of hunters out there.
To act as if the obvious danger of a hunting accident is some kind of fantasy excuse by spokespeople, on the level of getting hit by bricks while playing football, is a bad and unfair analogy, plain and simple.
But it wasn't just that that made me think your anti-Administration bona fides were what were making you doubt anything related to their side of the story, it was also the ridiculous idea that Cheney didn't have a heart attack, which you said seemed "kinda weird", as if he didn't care. Come on now, that's just absurd. You didn't word this like a joke, either.
bhk
02-13-06, 05:02 PM
On the other hand, I've heard of spectators getting hit by a brick when seeing Allan Iverson play.
H8nXTC
02-13-06, 05:06 PM
I wish I new where to e-mail John Stewart's Daily Show. There is some great material they could use in this thead and the Muslim Cartoon thread also.
I can even see John saying it now on the next episode "...didn't want the press to know that Dick had a heart attack after realizing he shot something that big wearing a blazing orange vest... and it wasn't a quail!"
Ky-Fi
02-13-06, 08:03 PM
One thing I have to call bullsh*t on is explanation (which I think I've heard from some members of the hunting party) intimating that it was the fault of the guy who got shot. I'm not an avid hunter, and indeed haven't been hunting since probably 1985. But, I did grow up in rural NY state, and at age 14 got my small game license. I distinctly remember in the safety training, you're specifically taught to make sure you have clearly identified exactly what you're shooting at, make sure you have a clear line of fire, and make sure that even if you miss, you can account for where your shot is going to go. For instance, they said if you see a deer up on the crest of a hill, and you're below, you shouldn't shoot because you can't see where the bullet would go on the other side of the hill if you miss.
Even though you're STILL supposed to not have the gun cocked until you're about ready to fire, I'm more sympathetic to hunting accidents where someone stumbles and the trigger is pulled by accident. But when you willfully pull the trigger, there's just very little justification for hitting someone by accident.
natesfortune
02-13-06, 09:01 PM
One thing I have to call bullsh*t on is explanation (which I think I've heard from some members of the hunting party) intimating that it was the fault of the guy who got shot. I'm not an avid hunter, and indeed haven't been hunting since probably 1985. But, I did grow up in rural NY state, and at age 14 got my small game license. I distinctly remember in the safety training, you're specifically taught to make sure you have clearly identified exactly what you're shooting at, make sure you have a clear line of fire, and make sure that even if you miss, you can account for where your shot is going to go. For instance, they said if you see a deer up on the crest of a hill, and you're below, you shouldn't shoot because you can't see where the bullet would go on the other side of the hill if you miss.
Even though you're STILL supposed to not have the gun cocked until you're about ready to fire, I'm more sympathetic to hunting accidents where someone stumbles and the trigger is pulled by accident. But when you willfully pull the trigger, there's just very little justification for hitting someone by accident.
When hunting birds it's not so cut and dry.
When a bird is stirred, it flies away, and you track it with your gun as Cheney did, get a bead on it, and pull the trigger.
Problem is, he thought it was clear where he was shooting, because the other guy was supposed to be 200 yards behind the line. Cheney turned with the bird and fired, and the guy was in the line of the fire.
I'm not saying who's "fault" it is, because I wasn't there - it was probably both of them. But certainly, it is a hunter's responsibility to make himself known if he appears somewhere where his party thinks he's not - particular when hunting birds - but when hunting anything, really.
classicman2
02-13-06, 09:08 PM
I don't understand the 200 yards behind the line thing. :hscratch:
I don't know if they were hunting blue quail or bobwhite.
Were they using dogs?
Ky-Fi
02-13-06, 09:13 PM
Yeah, I wasn't there, and there's a lot of variables involved, but as I was taught, if there's not a clear line of fire, then you don't take the shot, period. And almost by definition, if you hit a member of your party then you didn't have a clear line of fire.
But that's just from my extremely limited experience---I'd be curious to hear from any serious hunters, or of any legal precedents of where the blame usually falls in regards to hunting accidents.
natesfortune
02-13-06, 09:16 PM
I think the blame has to fall with the shooter, naturally.
But in the case of birds, the "clear line of sight thing" is much different than with hunting deer - I mean, you are rapidly scanning your gun with a flying bird, and there's no way you can know if your line of sight is clear before you pull the trigger - the only way you can know is by knowing what areas are clear BEFORE the birds come out - because you surely can't tell when swinging a gun really fast while tracking a flying bird.
So there is certainly blame to go around, and the hunter that comes into an area that's supposed to be clear without warning his partners, when they're hunting birds, certainly must bear some of the blame.
DVD Polizei
02-13-06, 09:18 PM
I blame <s>Bush</s> Birds.
bhk
02-13-06, 09:29 PM
I blame Bush Birds.
It almost came out reflexively.
VinVega
02-13-06, 09:39 PM
On the other hand, I've heard of spectators getting hit by a brick when seeing Allan Iverson play.
:lol: Good one bhk.
Just watched Tivo'd stuff from last night and the local station was doing the standard news promos for the 11 O:clock news with this, but kept showing video of Chaney with a fishing pole! :lol:
General Zod
02-13-06, 11:52 PM
All day long i've been hearing that the press is mad about all of this because it wasn't until nearly a day later after the accident that they even heard about it, and then it wasn't from any official source but through the lady who owned the land the accident happend on.
But the funny thing about the gripe was what I heard on the way home from a reporter "This is typical the way the Bush administration treats us journalists. They don't follow protocol and keep us in the dark!". Then the talk show news guy asked "What's protocol for when the vp shoots someone?" and the reporter said "Well there really isn't one, but..." :shrug:
SuprVgeta
02-14-06, 12:23 AM
Dick Cheney Just Shot Somebody!
Unfortunately for all of us, it wasn't Michael Moore.
JasonF
02-14-06, 12:58 AM
Breaking news! Breaking news! Breaking news!
http://mrgrumman.home.comcast.net/DrudgeSiren.gif
Cheney Apparently Breaks Key Hunting Rule
Feb 13, 11:08 PM (ET)
By NEDRA PICKLER
WASHINGTON (AP) - Vice President Dick Cheney apparently broke the No. 1 rule of hunting: Be sure of what you're shooting at. He also violated Texas game law by failing to buy a hunting stamp.
Cheney wounded fellow hunter Harry Whittington in the face, neck and chest Saturday, apparently because he didn't see Whittington approaching as he fired on a covey of quail in Texas.
Hunting safety experts interviewed Monday agreed it would have been a good idea for Whittington to announce himself - something he apparently didn't do, according to a witness. But they stressed that the shooter is responsible for avoiding other people.
"It's incumbent upon the shooter to assess the situation and make sure it's a safe shot," said Mark Birkhauser, president-elect of the International Hunter Education Association and hunter education coordinator in New Mexico. "Once you squeeze that trigger, you can't bring that shot back."
The Parks and Wildlife Department said Cheney and Whittington will be given warning citations for violating game law by not having an upland game bird stamp, a requirement that went into effect in September. Cheney had a $125 nonresident hunting license, the vice president's office said Monday night in a statement, and has sent a $7 check to cover the cost of the stamp.
Cheney, an experienced hunter, has not commented publicly about the accident. He avoided reporters by leaving an Oval Office meeting with United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan before the press was escorted in.
President Bush was told about Cheney's involvement in the accident shortly before 8 p.m. Saturday - about an hour after it occurred - but the White House did not disclose the accident until Sunday afternoon, and then only in response to press questions. Press secretary Scott McClellan said he did not know until Sunday morning that Cheney had shot someone.
Facing a press corps upset that news had been withheld, McClellan said, "I think you can always look back at these issues and look at how to do a better job."
Katharine Armstrong, the owner of the ranch where the shooting occurred, said she told Cheney on Sunday morning that she was going to inform the local paper, the Corpus Christi Caller-Times. She said he agreed, and the newspaper reported it on its Web site Sunday afternoon.
Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said that about an hour after Cheney shot Whittington, the head of the Secret Service's local office called the Kenedy County sheriff to report the accident. "They made arrangements at the sheriff's request to have deputies come out and interview the vice president the following morning at 8 a.m. and that indeed did happen," Zahren said.
At least one deputy showed up at the ranch's front gate later in the evening and asked to speak to Cheney but was turned away by the Secret Service, Zahren said. There was some miscommunication that arrangements had already been made to interview the vice president, he said.
Gilbert San Miguel, chief deputy sheriff for Kenedy County, said the report had not been completed Monday and that it was being handled as a hunting accident, although he would not comment about what that meant they were investigating.
He said his department's investigation had found that alcohol was not a factor in the shooting, but he would not elaborate about how that had been determined. The Texas Parks and Wildlife hunting accident report also said neither Cheney nor Whittington appeared to be under the influence of intoxicants or drugs.
Whittington, a prominent Republican attorney in the Texas capital of Austin, was in stable condition at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial and was moved from intensive care to a "step-down unit" Monday. Doctors decided to leave several birdshot pellets lodged in his skin rather than try to remove them.
Armstrong said the accident occurred toward the end of the hunt, as darkness was encroaching and they were preparing to go inside. Whittington was retrieving from tall grass a bird he had shot.
Cheney and another hunter, Pamela Willeford, the U.S. ambassador to Switzerland, moved on to another covey of quail - Armstrong estimated it was roughly 100-150 yards away - and Cheney fired on a bird just as Whittington rejoined them. She said Whittington was in tall grass and thick brush about 30 yards away, which made it difficult for Cheney to see him, although both men were wearing bright-orange safety vests. She said Whittington made a mistake by not vocally announcing that he had walked up to rejoin the hunting line.
Armstrong said she saw Cheney's security detail running toward the scene. "The first thing that crossed my mind was he had a heart problem," she told The Associated Press.
She said Cheney stayed "close but cool" while the agents and medical personnel treated Whittington, then took him away via ambulance to the hospital. Later, the hunting group sat down for dinner while Whittington was being treated, receiving updates from a family member at the hospital. Armstrong described Cheney's demeanor during dinner as "very worried" about Whittington.
Willeford told The Dallas Morning News in a story for Tuesday editions that she had hunted with Cheney before and would do so again. "He's a great shot. He's very safety conscious. This is something that unfortunately was a bad accident and when you're with a group like that, he's safe or safer than all the rest of us," she said.
Duane Harvey, president of the Wisconsin Hunter Education Instructors Association, said if Whittington had made his presence known "that would have been a polite thing to do." But, he added, "it's still the fault upon the shooter to identify his target and what is beyond it."
Despite all the safety tips and training, hunting accidents are an unfortunate part of the sport. In Texas, there were 30 accidents and two hunting deaths last year, according to the state Parks and Wildlife Department. National figures kept by the International Hunter Education Association show 744 shooting accidents, with 74 deaths, in 2002, the last year for which figures were available. Twenty-six accidents involving quail hunting were reported.
The association estimates there are 15.7 million hunters who will spend about 250 million days hunting in the United States this year.
Wyoming Gov. Dave Freudenthal, a Democrat, said the accident wouldn't keep him from going on a bipartisan hunt with Cheney. "I would be proud to hunt with the vice president - cautious, but proud," he told reporters.
So, to recap:
It was Cheney's fault.
Cheney broke the law, thereby violating his oath to uphold the law of the land.
While his best friend lay bleeding on a hospital bed, Cheney sat down to a lavish banquet.
The natural reaction when something goes wrong and Cheney's around is to assume it's another heart attack.
I think it's pretty clear that impeachment proceedings can't be too far off.
From the Tongue-in-cheek News Bureau, this is JasonF reporting.
H8nXTC
02-14-06, 03:11 AM
Here is something that puts a thorne in my thigh on this story, he was found to not have a stamp in his hunting lisence for hunting quail on PRIVATE PROPERTY. This land of the Free, makes you go pay a fee and get a stamp to hunt something (not on public land) but on your own private land. Doesn't this bother anyone else?
Plus the fact that the party, including Chaney, sat and eat a meal while his "friend" was being attended to at a hospital for a gun shot wound to the face and chest that Chaney caused.
Oh and is it really standard procedure to SHOUT out that you are returning to a group when you are hunting quail? Aren't you going to look rather rediculous and get the others rather angry when someone is getting ready to fire and then a Shout causes the quail to become frightened and take off. Maybe he did shout out and Chaney got mad that he scared away the quail, so he shot him.
classicman2
02-14-06, 08:25 AM
The birds don't belong to the property owner - only the land - not even the mineral rights in many cases.
uberjoe
02-14-06, 08:34 AM
Here is something that puts a thorne in my thigh on this story, he was found to not have a stamp in his hunting lisence for hunting quail on PRIVATE PROPERTY. This land of the Free, makes you go pay a fee and get a stamp to hunt something (not on public land) but on your own private land. Doesn't this bother anyone else?
Plus the fact that the party, including Chaney, sat and eat a meal while his "friend" was being attended to at a hospital for a gun shot wound to the face and chest that Chaney caused.
Oh and is it really standard procedure to SHOUT out that you are returning to a group when you are hunting quail? Aren't you going to look rather rediculous and get the others rather angry when someone is getting ready to fire and then a Shout causes the quail to become frightened and take off. Maybe he did shout out and Chaney got mad that he scared away the quail, so he shot him.
I want to echo c-man's response and add that his name is "Cheney." This is the VP, not the actor.
classicman2
02-14-06, 08:53 AM
Since Cheney has clearly violated the law, don't you believe the honorable thing for him to do is resign?
And, do the country a big favor. ;)
VinVega
02-14-06, 09:01 AM
Since Cheney has clearly violated the law, don't you believe the honorable thing for him to do is resign?
And, do the country a big favor. ;)
Oh no, you're not going to start labeling people Dick Cheney apologists, are you? -eek-
H8nXTC
02-14-06, 09:02 AM
Guess if I bought a large piece of property in the U.S. in the middle of no where and then found a 200 year old treasure chest of gold, I should turn it over to the government since the Gold could be considered a mineral. Then find there is oil in the ground, I should just keep it there as it not mine. Then some wild cattle comes and eats the grass on the property and lives there, better to just let them eat it and not touch them as it's not really my land. Oh then some chemical plant spills some toxic gasses constantly in the air that passes over my land, but since the gas is in the air and not landing on my land, then I have nothing to complain about because it's in the air, not on the land. I don't believe this is what our forefathers ment when they first started this country. I don't want to even get into the whole tax thing that they specifically went out of their way to make rules against.
Lord Rick
02-14-06, 09:03 AM
Since Cheney has clearly violated the law, don't you believe the honorable thing for him to do is resign?
And, do the country a big favor. ;)
Well of course. The Repubs are the party of personal responsibility, aren't they?
Yeah, right!
:lol:
classicman2
02-14-06, 09:03 AM
Oh no, you're not going to start labeling people Dick Cheney apologists, are you?
No, but once again, much to the chagrin of Pharoh, he has demonstrated his incomeptence. :lol:
Bring on Condi!!
Bushdog
02-14-06, 09:25 AM
You know you want it. Some winners, some duds. Gratis CNN.com
TV joke writers take shots at Cheney
LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Television talk shows took aim Monday at Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental weekend shooting in Texas of a hunting companion. Here are a few of the jokes.
"Late Show with David Letterman," CBS
* "Good news, ladies and gentlemen, we have finally located weapons of mass destruction: It's Dick Cheney."
* "But here is the sad part -- before the trip Donald Rumsfeld had denied the guy's request for body armor."
* "We can't get Bin Laden, but we nailed a 78-year-old attorney."
* "The guy who got gunned down, he is a Republican lawyer and a big Republican donor and fortunately the buck shot was deflected by wads of laundered cash. So he's fine. He took a little in the wallet."
"The Tonight Show with Jay Leno," NBC
* "Although it is beautiful here in California, the weather back East has been atrocious. There was so much snow in Washington, D.C., Dick Cheney accidentally shot a fat guy thinking it was a polar bear."
* "That's the big story over the weekend. ... Dick Cheney accidentally shot a fellow hunter, a 78-year-old lawyer. In fact, when people found out he shot a lawyer, his popularity is now at 92 percent."
* "I think Cheney is starting to lose it. After he shot the guy he screamed, 'Anyone else want to call domestic wire tapping illegal?' "
* "Dick Cheney is capitalizing on this for Valentine's Day. It's the new Dick Cheney cologne. It's called Duck!"
"The Daily Show with Jon Stewart," Comedy Central
* The show's segment titles included "Cheney's Got a Gun," "No. 2 With a Bullet" and "Dead-Eye Dick."
* "Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot a man during a quail hunt ... making 78-year-old Harry Whittington the first person shot by a sitting veep since Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton, of course, (was) shot in a duel with Aaron Burr over issues of honor, integrity and political maneuvering. Whittington? Mistaken for a bird."
* "Now, this story certainly has its humorous aspects. ... But it also raises a serious issue, one which I feel very strongly about. ... Moms, dads, if you're watching right now, I can't emphasize this enough: Do not let your kids go on hunting trips with the vice president. I don't care what kind of lucrative contracts they're trying to land, or energy regulations they're trying to get lifted -- it's just not worth it."
"Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson," CBS
* "He is a lawyer and he got shot in the face. But he's a lawyer, he can use his other face. He'll be all right."
* "You can understand why this lawyer fellow let his guard down, because if you're out hunting with a politician, you think, 'If I'm going to get it, it's going to be in the back.' "
* "The big scandal apparently is that they didn't release the news for 18 hours. I don't think that's a scandal at all. I'm quite pleased about that. Finally there's a secret the vice president's office can keep."
* "Apparently the reason they didn't release the information right away is they said we had to get the facts right. That's never stopped them in the past."
cdollaz
02-14-06, 09:41 AM
I love people blowing the unpaid stamp thing out of proportion. Obviously he wasn't trying to avoid the licenses or he wouldn't have spent $125 on a license. It is silly to think he is going to spend $125 and then not be willing to kick out another $7 for the stamp. Apparantly the $7 stamp is a new requirement so it is likely that he just didn't know about it.
classicman2
02-14-06, 09:42 AM
* "Apparently the reason they didn't release the information right away is they said we had to get the facts right. That's never stopped them in the past."
:lol:
classicman2
02-14-06, 09:44 AM
I love people blowing the unpaid stamp thing out of proportion. Obviously he wasn't trying to avoid the licenses or he wouldn't have spent $125 on a license. It is silly to think he is going to spend $125 and then not be willing to kick out another $7 for the stamp. Apparantly the $7 stamp is a new requirement so it is likely that he just didn't know about it.
Just another, of many, instances that show incompetence.
I see - ignorance of the law is now an excuse for the Bushites. ;)
cdollaz
02-14-06, 10:22 AM
Just another, of many, instances that show incompetence.
I see - ignorance of the law is now an excuse for the Bushites. ;)
Fine, then let's go thru every elected officials' records and get rid of all of those who have any citations, no matter how insignificant. Let a parking meter expire or get a speeding ticket, you are out on your ass, buddy.
nemein
02-14-06, 10:29 AM
I have to say I find the obsession w/ this story facinating. I thought I'd add a poll just to see who is on what side.
Chaos
02-14-06, 10:38 AM
* "You can understand why this lawyer fellow let his guard down, because if you're out hunting with a politician, you think, 'If I'm going to get it, it's going to be in the back.' "
rotfl
X
02-14-06, 11:22 AM
I'd like to call this incident a good start but he only injured a lawyer, not killed one.
wendersfan
02-14-06, 11:31 AM
I have to say I find the obsession w/ this story facinating. I thought I'd add a poll just to see who is on what side.I guess I should vote 'Other'. I don't support this administration any more or less than any of the ones that went before it, and I don't think this is a major story. It's mildly humorous because of Vice President Cheney's personality and reputation, but meanwhile Iran is enriching uranium, the US and Israel are planning to bring down the Hamas government, and Haiti might have a new leader...
Bronkster
02-14-06, 11:38 AM
Fine, then let's go thru every elected officials' records and get rid of all of those who have any citations, no matter how insignificant. Let a parking meter expire or get a speeding ticket, you are out on your ass, buddy.
That was already done when Clinton was in office. :p
classicman2
02-14-06, 11:41 AM
It's a very minor story. It's rather amusing to see our Bushites rush to his defense, however.
They should be happy with this minor story. The media's attention is turned away from the major abuses of this administration.
VinVega
02-14-06, 11:43 AM
Those poll choices look a little f-ed up. Either you support the admin and it's a non story, or you don't and it's a story, or you want to go hunting with Dick "Buckshot" Cheney. :hscratch:
nemein
02-14-06, 11:46 AM
Those poll choices look a little f-ed up. Either you support the admin and it's a non story, or you don't and it's a story, or you want to go hunting with Dick "Buckshot" Cheney. :hscratch:
:hscratch: indeed... there should be 5 options based on whether or not you support/don't support the admin and whether you think the story is major or minor (that makes 4) the 5th is "other" w/ an attempt at being humorous. Are you not seeing all 5 options?
Chrisedge
02-14-06, 11:55 AM
I hate GWB and Cheney more than anything, and this is a total NON-Story. Who cares? It was an accident, and it was a little delayed in getting announced. They lie about so much other stuff, that happened years ago, this is meaningless. :)
SeekOnce
02-14-06, 12:01 PM
I vote "Non-story but brilliant late-night monologue fodder and that makes me happy!"
dick_grayson
02-14-06, 12:06 PM
Daily Show: Headlines - #2 With a Bullet
Harry Whittington is the first person shot by a sitting Veep since Alexander Hamilton.
It seems only the "big name" press is bothered much by this story. And it's only because it again displays the Administration's contempt for them by not running to them with this story. Rather, they let an unknown reporter at a podunk newspaper break it instead of the ever-so-important Washington reporters.
Tracer Bullet
02-14-06, 12:12 PM
Daily Show: Headlines - #2 With a Bullet
Harry Whittington is the first person shot by a sitting Veep since Alexander Hamilton.
It seems only the "big name" press is bothered much by this story. And it's only because it again displays the Administration's contempt for them by not running to them with this story. Rather, they let an unknown reporter at a podunk newspaper break it instead of the ever-so-important Washington reporters.
I don't think that's the main reason why the "big name" press is so bothered. I think they're suspicious (and rightly so) as to delay. I'd imagine this admin. wanted to make damn sure that homeboy didn't end up dying. They waited to make sure he'd live and then let the story break. Personally, I would have done it the same way.....although I can't see myself being that much of a spaz and just spin-blasting at the first thing I turn upon.
nemein
02-14-06, 12:13 PM
It seems only the "big name" press is bothered much by this story. That was the general impression I got from the WH press conference yesterday. As someone mentioned though (I think in this thread) it's a hate-hate relationship between the admin/press and this was just another slap in the face.
BTW today's conference just started and the press corp is still harping on this issue -ohbfrank- and Scott is still incapable of handling this group...
VinVega
02-14-06, 12:18 PM
:hscratch: indeed... there should be 5 options based on whether or not you support/don't support the admin and whether you think the story is major or minor (that makes 4) the 5th is "other" w/ an attempt at being humorous. Are you not seeing all 5 options?
:lol: @ me
I skimmed the options
major
minor
5 letters, right under each other, I assumed they were the same thing. I'll be ok.
:brickwl:
X
02-14-06, 12:24 PM
I don't think that's the main reason why the "big name" press is so bothered. I think they're suspicious (and rightly so) as to delay. I'd imagine this admin. wanted to make damn sure that homeboy didn't end up dying. They waited to make sure he'd live and then let the story break. Personally, I would have done it the same way.....although I can't see myself being that much of a spaz and just spin-blasting at the first thing I turn upon.I think that's a very generous way of looking at the press's reaction to the situation. Such as this exchange....
NBCNEWS chief White House correspondent David Gregory warned President Bush's spokesman on Monday not to be a "jerk!"
The heated exchange came during a press gathering at the White House.
Gregory asked White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan about the Cheney hunting accident.
'David, hold on, the cameras aren't on right now,' McClellan replied. 'You can do this later.'
'Don't accuse me of trying to pose to the cameras,' Gregory said, voice rising. 'Don't be a jerk to me personally when I'm asking you a serious question.'
'You don't have to yell,' McClellan said.
'I will yell,'' said Gregory, pointing a finger at McCellan at his dais. 'If you want to use that podium to try to take shots at me personally, which I don't appreciate, then I will raise my voice, because that's wrong.'
'Calm down, Dave, calm down,' said McClellan.
'I'll calm down when I feel like calming down,' Gregory said. 'You answer the question.'
'I have answered the question,' said McClellan, who had maintained that the vice president's office was in charge of getting the information out and worked with the ranch owner to do that. 'I'm sorry you're getting all riled up about.'
'I am riled up,' Gregory said, 'because you're not answering the question.'" I saw the reporter who broke the story interviewed and she certainly didn't seem to have concerns that it took so long for it to come out.
The Bus
02-14-06, 12:34 PM
http://www.needlenose.com/i/fubar/cheneychart.jpg
VinVega
02-14-06, 12:39 PM
That was the general impression I got from the WH press conference yesterday. As someone mentioned though (I think in this thread) it's a hate-hate relationship between the admin/press and this was just another slap in the face.
BTW today's conference just started and the press corp is still harping on this issue -ohbfrank- and Scott is still incapable of handling this group...
I don't understand why the press is going crazy with this. It looks like a feeding frenzy mentality. One member gets under McClellan's skin, then the rest jump on the bandwagon. This whole time frame thing BECOMES the story, rather than the accident itself. It's nuts. They've (the press corp) decided what the story shall be and they're going to run it until it runs out of steam (which will probably be 3-4 days).
classicman2
02-14-06, 12:43 PM
I don't understand why the press is going crazy with this. It looks like a feeding frenzy mentality. One member gets under McClellan's skin, then the rest jump on the bandwagon. This whole time frame thing BECOMES the story, rather than the accident itself. It's nuts. They've (the press corp) decided what the story shall be and they're going to run it until it runs out of steam (which will probably be 3-4 days).
I agree. There's something far more important going on currently in the U. S. Senate - the asbestos legislation. Of course that's not as 'exciting' as the gun-toting vice-president blowing somebody away. ;)
dick_grayson
02-14-06, 12:52 PM
I think that's a very generous way of looking at the press's reaction to the situation. Such as this exchange....
I saw the reporter who broke the story interviewed and she certainly didn't seem to have concerns that it took so long for it to come out.
Well, I agree that it's a minor issue and isn't worth getting pissy over like Gregory did, but I think he raises some legitimate questions that didn't go answered (since when are they truly answered anyway by a Press Secretary?) I'm sure the media will overdo their task and any legitimate concern or questions raised will be dismissed as just more bitching.
"The vice president spoke with Mrs. Katharine Armstrong," McClellan said, referring to the owner of the ranch where Cheney and Whittington were hunting. "And they agreed that she should make that information public. She was an eyewitness. She saw what occurred. And she called her local paper to provide those facts to the local paper."
Later McClellan was asked, "As press secretary, are you satisfied with the way this was handled?"
"Well," he replied, "I think you can always look back at these issues and look at how to do a better job."
After an indecipherable blur of shouted questions, Gregory's voice rose over those of his competitors.
"Let's just be clear here," Gregory said. "The vice president of the United States accidentally shoots a man, and he feels that it's appropriate for a ranch owner who witnessed this to tell the local Corpus Christi newspaper and not the White House press corps at large or notify the public in a national way?"
"Well, I think we all know that once it is made public, then it's going to be news and all of you are going to be seeking that information," McClellan replied.
I agree. There's something far more important going on currently in the U. S. Senate - the asbestos legislation. Of course that's not as 'exciting' as the gun-toting vice-president blowing somebody away. ;)I thought Teddy Kennedy told us the asbestos legislation wasn't important enough to address when the Senate could better be using its time looking for ways to bork Alito.
raven56706
02-14-06, 12:54 PM
who freaking cares..... i mean shit..
nemein
02-14-06, 12:55 PM
I think he raises some legitimate questions that didn't go answered
Like what?
X
02-14-06, 12:55 PM
Well, I agree that it's a minor issue and isn't worth getting pissy over like Gregory did, but I think he raises some legitimate questions that didn't go answered (since when are they truly answered anyway by a Press Secretary?) I'm sure the media will overdo their task and any legitimate concern or questions raised will be dismissed as just more bitching.Doesn't this pretty much say what I did?
"Let's just be clear here," Gregory said. "The vice president of the United States accidentally shoots a man, and he feels that it's appropriate for a ranch owner who witnessed this to tell the local Corpus Christi newspaper and not the White House press corps at large or notify the public in a national way?"The story would get out either way. But the way it did, the White House press corps was behind the curve and felt slighted.
dick_grayson
02-14-06, 12:57 PM
Like what?
just the reasoning behind why it took so long to report. I honestly believe that they wanted to make sure that the "victim" lived or not (and again, I would have done the same thing in this case). I think that's part of what the media wants to hear. The rest is just echo and crying wolf. The struggle is that the admin. wants it to go away and the press wants to keep it here and build it up for as long as possible. Somewhere between is where an appropriate amount of attention should be.
nemein
02-14-06, 01:00 PM
just the reasoning behind why it took so long to report. I honestly believe that they wanted to make sure that the "victim" lived or not. I think that's part of what the media wants to hear. The rest is just echo and crying wolf.
But the press corp isn't buying the reasoning given for why it took so long. They are "digging" for more. If this was a story of some substance I would agree/understand. As it is this was a minor hunting accident and the press corp is treating it like there was some sort of attempted whitewash/cover-up. Give me a break. Seems to me they're just pissed some noname reporter from some unheard of newspaper was given the info first.
X
02-14-06, 01:00 PM
Sure, I agree they might have wanted to find out if the guy lived first and tailor their message to that. Just as every other message is released. But I doubt you'd hear the press uproar if it had gone through their preferred channels.
tcoursen
02-14-06, 01:02 PM
I think this story is much ado about nothing. It was an accident, nothing more.
And who cares if there was a delay in letting the president know. What was he gonna do? And what was so important about it that he would need to be notified?
And who cares if there was a delay in letting the press know.
dick_grayson
02-14-06, 01:02 PM
But the press corp isn't buying the reasoning given for why it took so long. They are "digging" for more. If this was a story of some substance I would agree/understand. As it is this was a minor hunting accident and the press corp is treating it like there was some sort of attempted whitewash/cover-up. Give me a break. Seems to me they're just pissed some noname reporter from some unheard of newspaper was given the info first.
That is probably right. I, often, give the media more credit than it's due. I'd doubt it's because of the no-name reporter that broke the story. I think that the delay is the main issue with the media or at least it should be. The admin. has a way of making it seem like they're withholding important public information. That is what seems to throw the media into a frenzy. This is the product of that hate-hate relationship.
By the way, who hunts birds that were raised in captivity? :hscratch:
natesfortune
02-14-06, 01:08 PM
I don't think that's the main reason why the "big name" press is so bothered. I think they're suspicious (and rightly so) as to delay. I'd imagine this admin. wanted to make damn sure that homeboy didn't end up dying. They waited to make sure he'd live and then let the story break. Personally, I would have done it the same way.....although I can't see myself being that much of a spaz and just spin-blasting at the first thing I turn upon.
He was never in any danger of dying, if the reports are correct. A friend who saw it described him as getting it "pretty good", with some pellets breaking the skin, but nothing too major. Just stunned, really. He has some welts but that's about it.
nemein
02-14-06, 01:08 PM
I'd doubt it's because of the no-name reporter that broke the story.
Have you read the transcript? http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/02/20060213-4.html
Q But let's just be clear here. The Vice President of the United States accidentally shoots a man and he feels that it's appropriate for a ranch owner who witnessed this to tell the local Corpus Christi newspaper, and not the White House press corps at large, or notify the public in a national way?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think we all know that once it is made public, then it's going to be news and all of you all are going to be seeking that information. And the Vice President's Office was ready to provide additional information to reporters. There was no traveling White House press corps with the Vice President, as there is with the President in a situation like this --
Q Right, that's a distinction without a difference, really. I mean, we have Blackberries --
I think part of the problem is too we have just gotten so used to be a 24/7 news culture and whenever anything happens anywhere we expect to learn it immediately. Had this happened anytime before the last couple of decades it probably could have taken a couple of days for the info to really get out, people would have asked are both people ok and upon learning they were it would have been dropped/relegated to presidential trivia.
dick_grayson
02-14-06, 01:13 PM
Have you read the transcript? http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/02/20060213-4.html
yes and maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean, but I just assumed that the media could give a shit to who broke it but the fact that it was some no-name reporter made it seem suspicious that a full press release or something wasn't made. I guess I could believe that the admin. just wanted to get it out there since it would be picked up by the major newspapers and so on, but I didn't really get the impression that the media was jealous that this no-namer got the "hot scoop" (if that's what you meant) rather that the story (while minor) still deserved a more major announcement.
natesfortune
02-14-06, 01:16 PM
I don't understand why the press is going crazy with this. It looks like a feeding frenzy mentality. One member gets under McClellan's skin, then the rest jump on the bandwagon. This whole time frame thing BECOMES the story, rather than the accident itself. It's nuts. They've (the press corp) decided what the story shall be and they're going to run it until it runs out of steam (which will probably be 3-4 days).
It's not like this is without precedent, either:
WHY HILLARY WILL KEEP QUIET...
By Michelle Malkin · February 14, 2006 09:35 AM
...about the media uproar over the 18-hour delay in public disclosure of VP Cheney's hunting accident:
Flashback...CNN All Politics, Aug, 27, 1996 (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/news/9608/27/whitewater/index.shtml)
WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, Aug. 27) -- The same day Hillary Clinton was scheduled to speak at the Democratic National Convention, newly released documents suggest she was behind the 30-hour delay in releasing late White House counsel Vincent Foster's suicide note to authorities.
How the White House handled Foster's 1993 death, and the possibility that administration officials improperly removed documents from his office or impeded an official search of it, has been the subject of intense scrutiny by congressional Republicans and the media.
The newly released memo, written by White House lawyer Miriam Nemetz, quotes then-White House chief of staff Mack McLarty as saying Mrs. Clinton "was very upset and believed the matter required further thought and the president should not yet be told" about Foster's note.
According to the document, Mrs. Clinton "said they should have a coherent position and should have decided what to do before they told the president."
That contradicts sworn testimony to the Senate Whitewater Committee from Clinton staffers that the first lady had no role whatsoever in the handling of Foster's note.
And that one involved somebody actually dying and a memo stating that the First Lady was behind the decision to keep the matter quiet...
Again - no big deal, as everybody else seems to agree.
nemein
02-14-06, 01:17 PM
I didn't really get the impression that the media was jealous that this no-namer got the "hot scoop" (if that's what you meant) rather that the story (while minor) still deserved a more major announcement.
Maybe... the fact they are still harping on it a couple of days later though is really blowing it out of proportion though IMHO.
X
02-14-06, 01:19 PM
Don't give up hope! The lawyer isn't out of the woods yet. Looks like Cheney aimed for his heart.
VinVega
02-14-06, 01:28 PM
yes and maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean, but I just assumed that the media could give a shit to who broke it but the fact that it was some no-name reporter made it seem suspicious that a full press release or something wasn't made. I guess I could believe that the admin. just wanted to get it out there since it would be picked up by the major newspapers and so on, but I didn't really get the impression that the media was jealous that this no-namer got the "hot scoop" (if that's what you meant) rather that the story (while minor) still deserved a more major announcement.
There's three (maybe four) elements here that are causing the problem. One, a no name Newspaper in Texas got to break the story. Two, the White House Press Corps is suspicious of the admin in general, and whether there is a story here or not, they are going to dig. Three, Scott McClellan cannot handle this pack of dogs. He's not quick on his feet and he certainly can't charm these guys like other White House PR people. He simply stays on message, especially when he gets flustered. Four, I don't think Cheney wanted to tell anyone about this or at least make a big production of it, but the fact that he hates the press only complicates matters, so when you put all of this together you get a pie fight like we've had over the last 24 hours.
nemein, great point about the whole time frame issue. It was less than 24 hours before the press corps knews about it. The time compression between when news breaks and when we're supposed to hear about it is absolutely amazing.
12thmonkey
02-14-06, 01:30 PM
Breaking news from CNN
Man shot and wounded by Vice President Cheney suffers "minor heart attack" after birdshot becomes lodged in his heart, hospital spokesman says.
Lord Rick
02-14-06, 01:44 PM
He was never in any danger of dying, if the reports are correct. A friend who saw it described him as getting it "pretty good", with some pellets breaking the skin, but nothing too major. Just stunned, really. He has some welts but that's about it.
You might want to look a couple of posts down from yours.
Besides that new information about his heart, it was obvious the guy didn't get a superficial wound because you don't get ADMITTED to the hospital unless you might die.
Jadzia
02-14-06, 01:47 PM
It is interesting to imagine what would have happened if it had been the other way around, and Whittington had done the shooting.
I wonder how quickly the Secret Service would have swooped in on him to take him out? :lol:
natesfortune
02-14-06, 01:50 PM
You might want to look a couple of posts down from yours.
Besides that new information about his heart, it was obvious the guy didn't get a superficial wound because you don't get ADMITTED to the hospital unless you might die.
That's not true. You can be admitted into the hospital for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with "death", including simple observation, which news reports said he was.
As for what I said about him being in no danger, I was just going by these news reports, which certainly seem to indicate people didn't think he was in danger of dying at the time, as dickgrayson speculated:
Blanchard said Whittington was “awake, alert, in good humor, (and) has made a few jokes.”
“In all likelihood, he will continue the rest of his long life and his longevity with those pellets remaining in place,” he said.
Whittington “came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn’t signal them or indicate to them or announce himself,” said Armstrong, who was in the car.
“The vice president didn’t see him,” she said. “The covey flushed, and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good.”
Armstrong said the shotgun pellets broke the skin. “It knocked him silly. But he was fine. He was talking. His eyes were open. It didn’t get in his eyes or anything like that,” she said.
‘Looks like chickenpox’
Sally Whittington told The Dallas Morning News her father was being observed because of swelling from some of the welts on his neck. His face “looks like chickenpox, kind of,” she said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11312757/
Lord Rick
02-14-06, 01:54 PM
That's not true. You can be admitted into the hospital for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with "death", including simple observation, which news reports said he was.
Yes, observation, because you might DIE. They don't admit you just to look at you. I'm just a simple medical student, so I'll leave it to some of our Otter doctors to back me up. But realize this - time spent in the hospital is expensive, and they won't admit you for fun.
NCMojo
02-14-06, 01:54 PM
I think the shooting itself is a minor story -- really more something we can all chuckle about. But I think not releasing the news until the next day is just asking for trouble. What if Cheney had been drinking, and that's why they waited? What if there were some other guests from organized crime families, and they wanted to give them a chance to make their getaway? What if there was no hunting trip at all, and Cheney merely shot a man in the heat of anger?
All of this is warrantless speculation (and I think it's also complete bullshit), but here's the thing: the Administration left itself open to these kind of accusations. That's what should drive you crazy if you're a Republican.
bhk
02-14-06, 01:58 PM
Perhaps they were meeting space aliens. Most republicans that I know enjoyed seeing the WH press corp act like the jackasses they are.
classicman2
02-14-06, 02:11 PM
bhk & the rest of you Repubs,
It's tough being Republican at this time, isn't it?
Nothing seems to be going right you'll - the war, Abramoff, domestic spying, a totally VP, etc. Maybe things will get better for you'll once in you're in the minority again.
natesfortune
02-14-06, 02:17 PM
bhk & the rest of you Repubs,
It's tough being Republican at this time, isn't it?
Nothing seems to be going right you'll - the war, Abramoff, domestic spying, a totally VP, etc. Maybe things will get better for you'll once in you're in the minority again.
I can't imagine that Republicans would be anything other than delighted by how the Press is acting about this right now - because they know that nobody actually gives a crap, and wonders what all the fuss is about - including just about everybody, even leftist partisans, on this forum.
Bill Needle
02-14-06, 02:22 PM
bhk & the rest of you Repubs,
It's tough being Republican at this time, isn't it?
Nothing seems to be going right you'll - the war, Abramoff, domestic spying, a totally VP, etc. Maybe things will get better for you'll once in you're in the minority again.
As usual, you couldn't be more wrong.
Bronkster
02-14-06, 02:28 PM
All this fuss over such a little shooting! Goodness, you'd think some unknown woman came forward and claimed to have an affair with Cheney 10 years ago or something!
X
02-14-06, 02:33 PM
:lol:
I can't think of anything else that would cause harm to so few people yet wo well distract the public from issues that reflect negatively on the Administration. And as a bonus it reflects negatively on the press.
What hearings are going on right now? What hurricane? :hscratch:
classicman2
02-14-06, 02:37 PM
As usual, you couldn't be more wrong.
As usual - you forgot to look at the polls, didn't you?
I can't imagine that Republicans would be anything other than delighted by how the Press is acting about this right now.
I said in a previous post that the media is doing a service for you'll by not covering the real issues.
But, if so delighted why are you'll rushing to defend him? :hscratch:
JasonF
02-14-06, 02:40 PM
Don't give up hope! The lawyer isn't out of the woods yet. Looks like Cheney aimed for his heart.
The joke's on Cheney. Everybody knows that lawyers don't have hearts.
natesfortune
02-14-06, 02:41 PM
But, if so delighted why are you'll rushing to defend him? :hscratch:
:hscratch:
All I've done is say a variation of the exact same thing you yourself have said in this thread - it's a minor story and not a big deal, really.
And everybody here seems to be in agreement with that.
We agree on something, yet you're still accusing me of nefariously rushing to the aid of the Administration in a time of need? Doesn't follow.
classicman2
02-14-06, 02:42 PM
The joke's on Cheney. Everybody knows that lawyers don't have hearts.
Serious question, JasonF.
If Whittington should die, could Cheney be charged with negligent homicide or something of that nature?
VinVega
02-14-06, 02:43 PM
Serious question, JasonF.
If Whittington should die, could Cheney be charged with negligent homicide or something of that nature?
That is something for a DA and then a court to decide. However, you know how this administration feels about courts. ;)
classicman2
02-14-06, 02:47 PM
That is something for a DA and then a court to decide. However, you know how this administration feels about courts. ;)
One thing is for certain - Bush would pardon him - j
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