I did this last year about 1/4 of the season through so lets fire another one up for the half way mark. You can either predict who is going to get some of the year end awards or choose who you think should get it, just state which one you are doing. I'll start and Im going with who I would choose as of right now and Ill add runner ups too.

MVP
1. Kobe Bryant and Chauncey Billups
(Sorry but I cant decide between the two. The NBA does co awards when the votes are split and as of right now they are edead even IMHO)
2.Steve Nash

Rookie of the Year
1. Chris Paul
2. Channing Frye

Sixth Man of the Year
1. Mike Miller
2. Maurice Williams

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Ben Wallace (should be called the Ben Wallace award)
2. Alonzo Mourning

Most Improved Player
1. Chris Bosh
2. Mike James

Comeback Player of the Year
1. T.J. Ford
2. Ron Artest

All NBA First Team
PG Chauncey Billups
SG Kobe Bryant
SF Lebron James
PF Tim Duncan
C Ben Wallace

I kinda figure Paul would win ROY, but he's just destroying the competition, so good for him. As for MVP, I'd favor Kobe over Billups myself. I know its weird to put a selfish guy like Kobe as MVP, but the Lakers have terrible talent, but are doing well and Kobe is doing a ton without much help. We'll see if that wears on him as the season goes along.

Comeback Player of the Year

2. Ron Artest


I like your list, but this jackass got suspended for two months so he will have to do something pretty amazing in the second half to be considered for anything, but nut job of the year.

I like your list, but this jackass got suspended for two months so he will have to do something pretty amazing in the second half to be considered for anything, but nut job of the year.
And he didn't even play a game the first half of the season. No way Artest should be on your first half awards.

And he didn't even play a game the first half of the season. No way Artest should be on your first half awards.

:hscratch:

He played in 16 of the first 17 games.

MVP
1. Chauncey Billups
2.Steve Nash

Rookie of the Year
1. Chris Paul
2. Channing Frye

Sixth Man of the Year
1. Eddie House
2. Mike Miller

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Ben Wallace
2. Alonzo Mourning

Most Improved Player
1. Boris Diaw
2. Chris Bosh

Comeback Player of the Year
1. T.J. Ford
2. Grant Hill (If the dude can get over his hernia quick)

All NBA First Team
PG Steve Nash
SG Chauncey Billups
SF Lebron James
PF Tim Duncan
C Kevin Garnett

MVP
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Elton Brand
3. Steve Nash
4. LeBron James

Rookie of the Year
1. Chris Paul

Sixth Man of the Year
1. Mo Williams
2. Earl Boykins

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Andrei Kirilenko
2. Alonzo Mourning

Most Improved Player
1. Memhet Okur
2. Marcus Camby
3. Jameer Nelson
4. David West
5. Tony Parker
6. Delonte West/Kendrick Perkins

Comeback Player of the Year
1. T.J. Ford
2. Sam Cassell (bouncing back from his worst year in 10 years)

All NBA First Team
PG-Steve Nash
SG-Kobe Bryant
SF-Lebron James
PF-Elton Brand
C-Marcus Camby

Kerborus...completely forgot about House & Diaw...you're right on both accounts. House has been flying under the radar for years, that dude can shoot the lights out.

How the hell is Ron Artest second on your Comeback Player list? Doesn't he need to comeback to be eligible? Being suspended again this year kind of defeats that

:hscratch:

He played in 16 of the first 17 games.
Yeah, don't know why that popped in my head (other than coming off a good night of Nyquil aided sleep).

If and big if Camby comes back and plays the rest of the year, I would think that he should at least be heavily considered for Defensive Player of the Year.

I definitely think Tony Parker needs a look for Most Improved Player though there are definitely other guys like West that have made biggger turn arounds. Everyone's suggestions are very good though.

I'd put Dirk Nowitzki ahead of Duncan and even Brand this year on the All-NBA first team.

I wouldn't consider Chauncey Billups for MVP considering Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace are just as valuable for that team in my opinion. I think the MVP is between Kobe and Nash.

And lastly, I'd give Darius Miles consideration for Most Improved Player depending on if he can keep up his hot streak once he returns to Portland.

I'd put Dirk Nowitzki ahead of Duncan and even Brand this year on the All-NBA first team.

Ugh, sorry but a big man that can't play defense should never be a consideration for All-NBA first team IMO. Maybe if Dirk was a good leader I might think differently, but he sucks at that as well. Duncan is definitely not the player he was a few years ago with the foot problems he now has, but he looked pretty damn good taking it to KG tonight so I don't think I would toss him aside just yet. Especially not for Dirk.

As far as MVP, I definitely think Billups is the engine that is making the Pistons such a dynamo and he definitely is my pick for MVP with Saunders the definite coach of the year at this point. Pistons have the best team I have watched since Jordan's Bulls and Billups deserves MVP mention for it.

I'd put Dirk Nowitzki ahead of Duncan and even Brand this year on the All-NBA first team.

I wouldn't consider Chauncey Billups for MVP considering Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace are just as valuable for that team in my opinion. I think the MVP is between Kobe and Nash.

And lastly, I'd give Darius Miles consideration for Most Improved Player depending on if he can keep up his hot streak once he returns to Portland.

Both Wallaces (and Prince and Hamilton) are responsible for the juggernaut that the Pistons have become, but make no mistake, Billups hits or is responsible for almost every key shot the Pistons have made this year. This guy is a true leader, can take and make the shots at the end of games and set up his teamates for them as well, and plays on both sides of the ball. He is unquestionably an MVP candidate.

I don't understand even considering Kobe, when his team will at best be on the playoff bubble. Kobe doesn't lead and he is primarily a scorer. Not even close to an MVP candidate in my book, tons of points or not. I think the MVP should come from a winning team.

Both Wallaces (and Prince and Hamilton) are responsible for the juggernaut that the Pistons have become, but make no mistake, Billups hits or is responsible for almost every key shot the Pistons have made this year. This guy is a true leader, can take and make the shots at the end of games and set up his teamates for them as well, and plays on both sides of the ball. He is unquestionably an MVP candidate.

I don't understand even considering Kobe, when his team will at best be on the playoff bubble. Kobe doesn't lead and he is primarily a scorer. Not even close to an MVP candidate in my book, tons of points or not. I think the MVP should come from a winning team.


i think you are the only one with that view of kobe.

Ugh, sorry but a big man that can't play defense should never be a consideration for All-NBA first team IMO. Maybe if Dirk was a good leader I might think differently, but he sucks at that as well. Duncan is definitely not the player he was a few years ago with the foot problems he now has, but he looked pretty damn good taking it to KG tonight so I don't think I would toss him aside just yet. Especially not for Dirk.

I have to disagree with you there boss about Dirk being a bad leader. He's not a great leader, but he's definitely not "bad". He at least got on Dampier's ass for not playing hard. :lol: And now Dampier is playing a little better. Dirk is always talking about team basketball, etc. What is it that makes you say he's not a good leader? Is it because he looks like Frankenstein?

Duncan's "mini-me" (tony parker) is playing better than him most of the time. Duncan has made the first team every year since he's been in the league, but I doubt he'll make it this year, unfortunately. I may be wrong, but we'll see.

As far as MVP, I definitely think Billups is the engine that is making the Pistons such a dynamo and he definitely is my pick for MVP with Saunders the definite coach of the year at this point. Pistons have the best team I have watched since Jordan's Bulls and Billups deserves MVP mention for it.

Fine. Let's give him an "MVP mention", "MVP candidate", whatever. But there's no way in bloody hell he would win it. :D

I have to disagree with you there boss about Dirk being a bad leader. He's not a great leader, but he's definitely not "bad". He at least got on Dampier's ass for not playing hard. :lol: And now Dampier is playing a little better. Dirk is always talking about team basketball, etc. What is it that makes you say he's not a good leader? Is it because he looks like Frankenstein?

No its not the way he looks. Its the way he acts when things go wrong. He blames his teammates and acts like a child. His calling out of Dampier was not done in a positive way. Neither was his treatment of Jason Terry after Terry carried his sorry ass throughout the entire playoffs. Blowing up at your teammates and acting like a child is not being a good leader. Things are going good for the Mavericks right now and AJ has really improved them, but you can bet when the chips are down in the playoffs Dirk will have a meltdown instead of stepping up and being a leader for his team.

Duncan's "mini-me" (tony parker) is playing better than him most of the time. Duncan has made the first team every year since he's been in the league, but I doubt he'll make it this year, unfortunately. I may be wrong, but we'll see.
Most people don't get what is so great about Tim Duncan and thats a shame. Duncan doesn't have to score 30 points like Dirk to be a huge influence on his team. Duncan is a true leader that makes the big play, big pass or big defensive stop to drive his team to victory. Duncan is hurting and his numbers are down, but he is still the leader of that team and leads with his words in the huddles and by example on the floor.

If Dirk is having an off shooting night he is nothing more than a rebounder out there. He doesn't give his team anything very positive and is a horrible defensive liability against most other big men in the league. He talks shit about Dampier when he struggles defensively, but you never see Dirk asking to take Dampier's man and shut him down. Guys like Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace would shred Dirk to pieces in a playoff series.

You might argue a PF making a bigger impact on his team this year and more deserving of first team NBA than Duncan, but it will have to be someone better than Dirk.

Most people don't get what is so great about Tim Duncan and thats a shame.

For the record, I love Duncan and I believe he's been the best power forward in the game for a long time. The championships speak for themselves man. But THIS year, things are different. And most of it is not his fault, it's the injury. So trust me, I get what's great about Duncan, but this year hasn't been his best.

As for Dirk, I'm just going to leave it at that and move on.

Next topic:

Jesus Shuttlesworth.

Your thoughts, darkside?

i havent been paying attention to the NBA but Kobe's 81 points already cemented him MVP. IMO, of course.

I have Nash slightly ahead of Kobe for MVP, simply because he's leading the Suns again after all those changes and without Amare and no one predicted the Suns to be playing as well as they are. Kobe is making a bad team respectable and playoff bound. I'd probably have Elton Brand 3rd. Chauncey probably just makes my Top 10 MVP candidates. He's solid, but to me he's just another contributor on a successful team. Hardly enough for me to consider him in the Top 5 and I can't see how anyone can put him ahead of Steve Nash.

My All-NBA First Team would be...

Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Elton Brand
Ben Wallace

i think you are the only one with that view of kobe.

I don't think that you can dismiss the importance of the MVP winner being on an elite team.

Below is some data that I compiled from BasketballReference.com

I can't get it to format correctly, but you can see that Kobe would have to get his team to at least a 3-4 seed in the Western Conference to have a realistic shot at winning the MVP award.

Kobe's season most resembles MJ's 1987-88 Season in which MJ averaged 35 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 5.9 APG, 3.16 Steals Per Game (that's just sick!!!), 1.6 Blocks Per Game, 53.5 FG%, 84.1 FT%, 3.07 Turnovers Per Game. His Bulls team was 50-32 that year. If Kobe can get the Lakers to 50 wins, then I'd say give him the MVP, but if he gets say 45 wins, I say no way.

Year / Player Team Record Overall Conference Team Record Overal NBA Team Record Rank
2004-05 Steve Nash 62-20 1 1
2003-04 Kevin Garnett 58-24 2 2
2002-03 Tim Duncan 60-22 Tied 1st Tied 1st
2001-02 Tim Duncan 58-24 Tied 2nd Tied 2nd
2000-01 Allen Iverson 56-26 1 Tied 2nd
1999-00 Shaquille O'neal 67-15 1 1
1998-99 Karl Malone 37-13 Tied 1st Tied 1st
1997-98 Michael Jordan 62-20 1 Tied 1st
1996-97 Karl Malone 64-18 1 1
1995-96 Michael Jordan 72-10 1 1
1994-95 David Robinson 62-20 1 1
1993-94 Hakeem Olajuwon 58-24 2 2
1992-93 Charles Barkley 62-20 1 1
1991-92 Michael Jordan 67-15 1 1
1990-91 Michael Jordan 61-21 1 1
1989-90 Magic Johnson 63-19 1 1
1988-89 Magic Johnson 57-25 1 Tied 2nd
1987-88 Michael Jordan 50-32 Tied 3rd Tied 7th
1986-87 Magic Johnson 65-17 1 1
1985-86 Larry Bird 67-15 1 1
1984-85 Larry Bird 63-19 1 1
1983-84 Larry Bird 62-20 1 1
1982-83 Moses Malone 65-17 1 1
1981-82 Moses Malone 58-24 2 2
1980-81 Julius Erving 62-20 Tied 1st Tied 1st
1979-80 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 60-22 1 2
1978-79 Moses Malone 47-35 Tied 3rd Tied 6th
1977-78 Bill Walton 58-24 1 1
1976-77 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 53-29 1 1
1975-76 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 40-42 4 Tied 9th
1974-75 Bob Mcadoo 49-33 Tied 3rd Tied 3rd
1973-74 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 59-23 1 1
1972-73 Dave Cowens 68-14 1 1
1971-72 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 63-19 2 2
1970-71 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 66-16 1 1
1969-70 Willis Reed 60-22 1 1
1968-69 Wes Unseld 57-25 1 1
1967-68 Wilt Chamberlain 62-20 1 1
1966-67 Wilt Chamberlain 68-13 1 1
1965-66 Wilt Chamberlain 55-25 1 1
1964-65 Bill Russell 62-18 1 1
1963-64 Oscar Robertson 55-25 2 2
1962-63 Bill Russell 58-22 1 1
1961-62 Bill Russell 60-20 1 1
1960-61 Bill Russell 57-22 1 1
1959-60 Wilt Chamberlain 49-26 2 2
1958-59 Bob Pettit 49-23 1 1
1957-58 Bill Russell 49-23 1 1
1956-57 Bob Cousy 44-28 1 1
1955-56 Bob Pettit 33-39 Tied 2nd Tied 6th

MVP
1. Steve Nash- Look at what he's doing without Amare. Also look at how much his teammates improved this year (Diaw, Jones, Bell, Barbosa, and House)
2. Brand/Duncan/Garnett

Rookie of the Year
1. Chris Paul (running away with this award)
2. Andrew Bogut (Bogut is a much better all-around player than Fry)

Sixth Man of the Year
1. Mo Williams (clutch playmaker/shooter)
2. Charlie Villanueva/Devin Harris

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Andrei Kirilenko (should be called the Andrei Kirilenko award)
2. Samuel Dalembert

Most Improved Player
1. Boris Diaw
2. David West

Comeback Player of the Year
1. T.J. Ford
2. Grant Hill

All NBA First Team
PG Steve Nash
SG Allen Iverson
SF Lebron James
PF Tim Duncan
C Marcus Camby


These awards are off the top of my head, so I'm probably missing a few guys.

[QUOTE=The_Cube][
Defensive Player of the Year
1. Andrei Kirilenko (should be called the Andrei Kirilenko award)
[QUOTE]

Don't you have to at least win ONE? :) Ben is headed for his 4th in 5 years.

Ron Artest as comeback player of the year? Are you seriously eligible if what caused you to miss a full season was the fact you went apeshit?

Seems like Im getting alot of slack for placing Artest as 2nd for Comeback Player of the Year. Remember, I said runner up not winner. Plus I couldnt think of anybody else and he'll have a good year to wrap things up. No matter what the circumstances, he missed nearly all of last year and part of this one, thus he's coming back.

MVP
1. Chauncey Billups
2. Rip Hamilton

Rookie of the Year
1. Chris Paul
2. Channing Frye

Sixth Man of the Year
1. Antonio McDyess
2. Carlos Arroyo

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Ben Wallace (should be called the Ben Wallace award)
2. Rasheed Wallace

Comeback Player of the Year
1. T.J. Ford

All NBA First Team
PG Chauncey Billups
SG Rip Hamilton
SF Tayshaun Prince
PF Rasheed Wallace
C Ben Wallace

MVP
1. Chauncey Billups
2. Rip Hamilton

Rookie of the Year
1. Chris Paul
2. Channing Frye

Sixth Man of the Year
1. Antonio McDyess
2. Carlos Arroyo

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Ben Wallace (should be called the Ben Wallace award)
2. Rasheed Wallace

Comeback Player of the Year
1. T.J. Ford

All NBA First Team
PG Chauncey Billups
SG Rip Hamilton
SF Tayshaun Prince
PF Rasheed Wallace
C Ben Wallace
Kerborus, is that you?

As I was perusing that list I was expecting to see Dumars, Thomas, Laimbeer, Dantley, etc.

I'll fix your awards:

MVP
1. Michael Redd
2. Andrew Bogut

Rookie of the Year
1. Andrew Bogut
2. Ersan Illysova

Sixth Man of the Year
1. Mo Williams
2. Dan Gadzuric

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Jamaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal MaGloire (should be called the Jamal MaGloire award)
2. Bobby Simmons

Comeback Player of the Year
1. T.J. Ford
2. Jiri Welsch

All NBA First Team
PG TJ Ford
SG Michael Redd
SF Bobby Simmons
PF Andrew Bogut
C Jamaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal MaGloire

GM of the Year: Larry Harris
Worst Coach of the Year: Terry Stotts

Both Wallaces (and Prince and Hamilton) are responsible for the juggernaut that the Pistons have become, but make no mistake, Billups hits or is responsible for almost every key shot the Pistons have made this year. This guy is a true leader, can take and make the shots at the end of games and set up his teamates for them as well, and plays on both sides of the ball. He is unquestionably an MVP candidate.

I don't understand even considering Kobe, when his team will at best be on the playoff bubble. Kobe doesn't lead and he is primarily a scorer. Not even close to an MVP candidate in my book, tons of points or not. I think the MVP should come from a winning team.

It depends on what your definition of "MVP" really is. Some voters give their vote for the best player in the league, others vote for the best player on one of the 2-3 best teams in the league, and so on.

And many people would say it’s ridiculous to even include Billups in the MVP discussion, considering he is probably not even a top 30 player in the NBA.

The Cube are you a Bucks fan?

Kerborus, is that you?

I swear it's not me!

But that man does have a point! ;)

It depends on what your definition of "MVP" really is. Some voters give their vote for the best player in the league, others vote for the best player on one of the 2-3 best teams in the league, and so on.

And many people would say it’s ridiculous to even include Billups in the MVP discussion, considering he is probably not even a top 30 player in the NBA.

I agree with you. In my view it is the most important player on one of the best teams.

Playing great on a team that sucks is far less impressive then playing on a team that should win and does win. Everyone is playing for the championship whenever the Spurs and Pistons come to town. Everyone else is just playing another game on the schedule.

Not sure what to make of your view of Billups. You need to watch more games or maybe refer to the play that gave him MVP in the 2004 finals and his play in last year's finals. He averages almost 20 pts. and 9 assts. That's pretty damn good...

Fine. Let's give him an "MVP mention", "MVP candidate", whatever. But there's no way in bloody hell he would win it. :D

Don't hold your breath, he just might... Especially if the Pistons win 70.

i think you are the only one with that view of kobe.

Nope. Terrence Moore wrote an article in the AJC disparaging Kobe's season. He agrees with me whole heartedly. I've seen lots of articles and comments of folks who don't like Kobe's game.

He's a phenomenal talent, but he is not a leader and I can't see how anyone thinks he is. He doesn't make the players around him better at all. I'm not sure how an 81 point game would garner any player an MVP.

The Cube are you a Bucks fan?

Possibly :|

Shame on you Cube :(. You call yourself a Bucks fan but you spell your Center's first name wrong. Its Jamaal with two As, not one.

Shame on you Cube :(. You call yourself a Bucks fan but you spell your Center's first name wrong. Its Jamaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal with thirty-two As, not one.

I'm spelling it like it should be spelt.

He doesn't make the players around him better at all.

Here is a quote from Marc Stein:

If you say Kobe doesn't make his teammates better, what you're really saying is that you expected these Lakers to be more than a top-10 team. These Lakers?

Not saying I agree or disagree, just putting it out there.

Nope. Terrence Moore wrote an article in the AJC disparaging Kobe's season. He agrees with me whole heartedly. I've seen lots of articles and comments of folks who don't like Kobe's game.

He's a phenomenal talent, but he is not a leader and I can't see how anyone thinks he is. He doesn't make the players around him better at all. I'm not sure how an 81 point game would garner any player an MVP.



i guess these should be your mid season awards.


MVP
1. Rip Hamilton
2. Rip Hamilton

Rookie of the Year
1. Chris Paul
2. Channing Frye

Sixth Man of the Year
1. Rip Hamilton
2. Rip Hamilton


Defensive Player of the Year
1. Ben Wallace (should be called the Ben Wallace award)
2. Rip Hamilton


Comeback Player of the Year
1. Rip Hamilton

All NBA First Team
PG Chauncey Billups
SG Rip Hamilton
SF Rip Hamilton
PF Rip Hamilton
C Rip Hamilton

Nope. Terrence Moore wrote an article in the AJC disparaging Kobe's season. He agrees with me whole heartedly. I've seen lots of articles and comments of folks who don't like Kobe's game.

He's a phenomenal talent, but he is not a leader and I can't see how anyone thinks he is. He doesn't make the players around him better at all. I'm not sure how an 81 point game would garner any player an MVP.

Building on what Quake quoted from ESPN, Chris Mihm had the best year of his career last season, and his numbers have improved again this year. Chuck Atkins last year, and now Smush Parker this year, have had career years as well at PG. Really, the only player that has struggled has been Odom and even so his numbers aren't really far off from his career marks. He can do a better job of involving his teammates for sure, but certain players can thrive alongside someone like Kobe based on the attention he draws. The Lakers simply don't have sharpshooters to capitalize or the hustle guy for boards.

As far as leadership, I posted this quote in the Lakers thread.

"Laker forward Devean George has played with Bryant for a half dozen seasons now, but this year he sees a change.

“I see him really, really focused,” George explained. “Really, really outspoken and getting his point across verbally now. He used to just lead by example. Now he’s doing a whole lot more talking, letting guys know. ‘Get here. Move there. Move the ball. Step up.’ Whatever. He’s trying to take younger guys under his wing and let them know. I think that’s the biggest difference. He’s definitely taking a different route in trying to pick everybody up, pick everybody’s game up, get everybody on the same page, get the team rolling. I think that’s the difference this year in what he’s doing.”"


Either way, I still put Nash ahead of Billups. Points are a wash, Nash averages more assists, an extra rebound, and a much higher shooting percentage on a team that was overhauled and playing without it's second (and arguably first) best player in Amare. Picking Chauncey seems like an excuse to find a reward for the Pistons remarkable success.

Rookie of the Year
1. Chris Paul
2. Channing Frye

Chris Paul? But he doesn't play team basketball.

Rookie of the Year
1. Rip Hamilton
2. Darko Milicic

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Ben Wallace (should be called the Wallace/Hamilton award)
2. Rip Hamilton

Kobe deserves the MVP, but he won't win it. It'll go to Nash, or Billups, or someone on a winning team.

I'm going with Kobe. Take him out of that lineup, and they score about 60 pts a game. They'll sneak into the playoffs. Of course the haters will disagree, but that's why we call 'em haters.

Most Improved Player

4. David West



Good call on West. He has been amazing this season. Many overlook him since he plays for the Hornets.

I see only one mention of Lebron for MVP, although many have him on there All NBA list. He is every bit as good as Kobe if not better, yet his team has a better record.

Where does Nowitzki fit? I didn't see him mentioned much in this thread.

I see only one mention of Lebron for MVP, although many have him on there All NBA list. He is every bit as good as Kobe if not better, yet his team has a better record.

Where does Nowitzki fit? I didn't see him mentioned much in this thread.

Lebron also has a better team around him, even when Larry Hughes was out. Ilgauskas was an all star; people seem to forget that. But you're right, he's up there too.

My MVP's right now...

1. Steve Nash
2. Kobe (if his team continues to improve... 45 wins won't be enough and would see him fall to 5 or lower, 50 *should* convince everyone)
3. Elton Brand
4. Dirk Nowitski
5. Lebron James

I'm sure I'm forgetting someone too.

i guess these should be your mid season awards.


MVP
1. Rip Hamilton
2. Rip Hamilton

Rookie of the Year
1. Chris Paul
2. Channing Frye

Sixth Man of the Year
1. Rip Hamilton
2. Rip Hamilton


Defensive Player of the Year
1. Ben Wallace (should be called the Ben Wallace award)
2. Rip Hamilton


Comeback Player of the Year
1. Rip Hamilton

All NBA First Team
PG Chauncey Billups
SG Rip Hamilton
SF Rip Hamilton
PF Rip Hamilton
C Rip Hamilton

I mean c'mon guys, just because I don't lick Kobe's cornhole like you all? I'm having a legitimate conversation and again with the Rip Hamilton thing. I showed you my list above, Rip wasn't on it. Just Ben (deserved) and Chauncey (deserved). As you all like to point out 'analysts' are saying Billups' name for MVP too (Greg Anthony is very outspoken here), yet you mock me to make everyone think this is some fan-boy thing. Billups is the key guy, on the key team in the NBA right now. Surely that means something? Just look at his heroics in NJ tonight to give the team a shot to win the game.

If anything, the Kobe supporters are being the fan-boys... Just because the guy can score does not an MVP make. Billups and Nash (and Lebron for that matter) play so much more of a team game than does Bryant. You don't see Billups and Nash tearing guys down on national television. You don't see them mooning over themselves after a career scoring night on tv. Bryant is an awesome talent - LOADS better than Rip hamilton, I think this season has proven that. But he still doesn't get it. Give him 3 more years and perhaps he will.

Chris Paul? But he doesn't play team basketball.

Rookie of the Year
1. Rip Hamilton
2. Darko Milicic

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Ben Wallace (should be called the Wallace/Hamilton award)
2. Rip Hamilton

:lol::up:

I mean c'mon guys, just because I don't lick Kobe's cornhole like you all? I'm having a legitimate conversation and again with the Rip Hamilton thing. I showed you my list above, Rip wasn't on it. Just Ben (deserved) and Chauncey (deserved). As you all like to point out 'analysts' are saying Billups' name for MVP too (Greg Anthony is very outspoken here), yet you mock me to make everyone think this is some fan-boy thing. Billups is the key guy, on the key team in the NBA right now. Surely that means something? Just look at his heroics in NJ tonight to give the team a shot to win the game.

If anything, the Kobe supporters are being the fan-boys... Just because the guy can score does not an MVP make. Billups and Nash (and Lebron for that matter) play so much more of a team game than does Bryant. You don't see Billups and Nash tearing guys down on national television. You don't see them mooning over themselves after a career scoring night on tv. Bryant is an awesome talent - LOADS better than Rip hamilton, I think this season has proven that. But he still doesn't get it. Give him 3 more years and perhaps he will.

How are Kobe supporters being fan-boys and "licking Kobe's cornhole?" There have been a handful of people that here, that aren't Laker fans that I know of, who have recognized what Kobe means to the Lakers success. And "analysts" that you speak of, in regards to Chauncey, have also brought Kobe's name up in the MVP race. No one here has thrown out any outlandish claims as to why Kobe should be MVP, have they? I thought I gave you reasonable counter points to your earlier claims.

And newsflash: all teams and players have post-game conferences with the press. And 81 points isn't the same as someone having a career high of 40. Naturally people are going to ask him questions about it after the game and the media would be all over it. Kobe has shown selfish tendencies, but you're stretching an awful lot. Mooning over himself ? Give me a break.

How are Kobe supporters being fan-boys and "licking Kobe's cornhole?" There have been a handful of people that here, that aren't Laker fans that I know of, who have recognized what Kobe means to the Lakers success. And "analysts" that you speak of, in regards to Chauncey, have also brought Kobe's name up in the MVP race. No one here has thrown out any outlandish claims as to why Kobe should be MVP, have they? I thought I gave you reasonable counter points to your earlier claims.

And newsflash: all teams and players have post-game conferences with the press. And 81 points isn't the same as someone having a career high of 40. Naturally people are going to ask him questions about it after the game and the media would be all over it. Kobe has shown selfish tendencies, but you're stretching an awful lot. Mooning over himself ? Give me a break.

Having a team at 4 games over .500 is hardly a great success. Kobe's individual success is all that has been achieved. As all of you have pointed out, the Lakers team is miserable. I'm not sure why that is, as they have some good players, but again, it looks to me like for the most part, it's the Kobe Bryant show and the other guys are watching.

Having people clamoring for Kobe for MVP is fan-boyish as his team is not succeeding at the level most NBA MVP's have established in the past, as pointed out by some on this forum. Simply scoring a lot is not the standard for an MVP. (Trust me, some of these guys are really eyeing his corn hole).

And as the earlier article pointed out, Kobe didn't mention his team one time in his post game interview after the 81. Sure he's gonna get asked about it, but let's have a slice of humble pie once in a while...

Lastly, fumanstan, I'm not really directing the comments at you, but rather the two juveniles who keep bringing up Rip Hamilton instead of making a valid point. Even though it may be funny, it makes them look like fools in the conversation as they have nothing valid to argue but high school cheap shots.

Having a team at 4 games over .500 is hardly a great success. Kobe's individual success is all that has been achieved. As all of you have pointed out, the Lakers team is miserable. I'm not sure why that is, as they have some good players, but again, it looks to me like for the most part, it's the Kobe Bryant show and the other guys are watching.

Having people clamoring for Kobe for MVP is fan-boyish as his team is not succeeding at the level most NBA MVP's have established in the past, as pointed out by some on this forum. Simply scoring a lot is not the standard for an MVP. (Trust me, some of these guys are really eyeing his corn hole).

And as the earlier article pointed out, Kobe didn't mention his team one time in his post game interview after the 81. Sure he's gonna get asked about it, but let's have a slice of humble pie once in a while...

Lastly, fumanstan, I'm not really directing the comments at you, but rather the two juveniles who keep bringing up Rip Hamilton instead of making a valid point. Even though it may be funny, it makes them look like fools in the conversation as they have nothing valid to argue but high school cheap shots.


thanks for the nice comment, but you just do not get it, just because his assists are not up does not mean he does not make his temamates better, all these players are averaging more points and shooting a better percentage when kobe is on the court, why would that be, as fumanstan pointed, atkins had a career year last year. There is a reason for that, it's not too difficult to think about it.

thanks for the nice comment, but you just do not get it, just because his assists are not up does not mean he does not make his temamates better, all these players are averaging more points and shooting a better percentage when kobe is on the court, why would that be, as fumanstan pointed, atkins had a career year last year. There is a reason for that, it's not too difficult to think about it.

But overall, I think he impedes them more than he helps them. The same way Jordan did the Washington Wizards... They all watched him.

Lebron also has a better team around him, even when Larry Hughes was out. Ilgauskas was an all star; people seem to forget that. But you're right, he's up there too.

...



With Hughes the teams are close. Without him, as the Cavs have now been for some time, it isn't close. The Lakers teams sans Kobe is definitely better than the Cavs sans Lebron.

Or put another way, let me propose a trade. Z, Gooden, and Snow/D. Jones for Odom, Mihm, and Parker. As a Cavs season ticket holder/sometimes attendee, I would do that trade in an instant.




By the way, that really gets down to the MVP argument. It's not how bad the Lakers would be without Kobe, or the Cavs without Lebron, as both would be horrendously bad imho. The question is how good would their teams, or the teams of any of the MVP candidates, be if the player was replaced by another comparable player. Would the Suns be better is Kobe was their instead of Nash? What about the Lakers with D. Wade? It is by this thinking why I always have to include Tim Duncan on any MVP lists.

Defensive Player of the Year
2. Rip Hamilton




Even Kerborus couldn't make an arguement for Hamilton to win a defensive award.

I still see Billups as the MVP this year though. I'm not saying he is the only choice, but he deserves credit for leading that juggernaut.

I see only one mention of Lebron for MVP, although many have him on there All NBA list. He is every bit as good as Kobe if not better, yet his team has a better record.

Where does Nowitzki fit? I didn't see him mentioned much in this thread.

Nowitzki couldn't play D if his life depended on it and he isn't a natural leader.

He's not even a started on the Western All-Star Squad in my opinion. He's definitely behind Brand, Duncan, Marion & KG.

Nowitzki couldn't play D if his life depended on it and he isn't a natural leader.

He's not even a started on the Western All-Star Squad in my opinion. He's definitely behind Brand, Duncan, Marion & KG.
All I'm saying is his team has the best record in the west and he is definitely the best player on the team.

Since I failed to post it in my earlier post, my MVP list would include, in no particular order:

Iverson
Lebron
Kobe
Nash
Duncan

With Hughes the teams are close. Without him, as the Cavs have now been for some time, it isn't close. The Lakers teams sans Kobe is definitely better than the Cavs sans Lebron.

Or put another way, let me propose a trade. Z, Gooden, and Snow/D. Jones for Odom, Mihm, and Parker. As a Cavs season ticket holder/sometimes attendee, I would do that trade in an instant.




By the way, that really gets down to the MVP argument. It's not how bad the Lakers would be without Kobe, or the Cavs without Lebron, as both would be horrendously bad imho. The question is how good would their teams, or the teams of any of the MVP candidates, be if the player was replaced by another comparable player. Would the Suns be better is Kobe was their instead of Nash? What about the Lakers with D. Wade? It is by this thinking why I always have to include Tim Duncan on any MVP lists.

I don't know about your comparison. Z is better then Mihm. Gooden is better then Kwame. Until this year, everyone would pick Damon Jones over some guy named Smush. Odom/Bryant and Hughes/Lebron is pretty close.

As far as what constitutes an MVP, i don't think really fits, because players are going to fit in systems differently. Can Chauncey run the Suns offense as well as Steve Nash? Would any of these guys fit in to the Pistons? I'd liken it more to replacing a MVP candidate with an average player in the same position, and considering how that team would function. I can't imagine the Suns running without Nash, but I certainly can see the Pistons still succeeding with another PG over Chauncey. Certainly not as effective, but Nash seems like he would have a greater impact.

I don't know about your comparison. Z is better then Mihm. Gooden is better then Kwame. Until this year, everyone would pick Damon Jones over some guy named Smush. Odom/Bryant and Hughes/Lebron is pretty close.

I am just talking about this year though. While Z is better than Mihm, I don't find him to be significantly better. Moreover, Odom is better than Gooden and Smush has been better as a PG than anybody on the Cavs. I would easily take that Lakers trifecta over the one on the Cavs.



As far as what constitutes an MVP, i don't think really fits, because players are going to fit in systems differently. Can Chauncey run the Suns offense as well as Steve Nash? Would any of these guys fit in to the Pistons? I'd liken it more to replacing a MVP candidate with an average player in the same position, and considering how that team would function. I can't imagine the Suns running without Nash, but I certainly can see the Pistons still succeeding with another PG over Chauncey. Certainly not as effective, but Nash seems like he would have a greater impact.


:shrug:

I think we would all agree though that if an average replacement was used, all of the teams being spoken about would fare considerably worse. Perhaps the Pistons would be affected the least, but that is merely a testament to their depth, not Billups impact on the team. In that case, the Pistons would be a different team. That is why I personally like to look at a comparable caliber replacement.

Even Kerborus couldn't make an arguement for Hamilton to win a defensive award.

I still see Billups as the MVP this year though. I'm not saying he is the only choice, but he deserves credit for leading that juggernaut.

I didn't say anything about Rip winning a defensive award. More BS from you guys...

But, since you brought it up, there was a great article in either the Detroit Free Press or the Detroit News about a week ago, that details Rip's defensive efforts. Showed how he held his opponents scoring way down this year with his perimeter defense.

Memphis - Eddie Jones - 5-14 FG - 12 pts.
Minnesota - Trenton Hassell - 3-3 FG - 6 pts.
Houston - David Wesley - 2-5 FG - 5 pts.
New York - Jamal Crawford - 1-6FG - 2 pts.
Atlanta - Joe Johnson - 5-16 FG - 13 pts.
Boston - Ricky Davis - 0-8 FG - 0 pts.
Charlotte - Keith Bogans - 2-5 - 4 pts.
San Antonio - Michael Finley - 0-6 FG - 0 pts.

The only two exceptions were Michael Redd and Kobe Bryant whom the 'team' covered with multiple switches. Both went off for big points. His opponents are averaging less then 6 pts. against him in the last 10 games if you take away Kobe and Redd's games.

Am I saying he's a defensive player of the year candidate? No way. But to scoff on his defense - great TEAM defense - is also silly. Rip is a complete team player, make no mistake.

I didn't say anything about Rip winning a defensive award. More BS from you guys...

I know you didn't it was a joke post from earlier.

Am I saying he's a defensive player of the year candidate? No way. But to scoff on his defense - great TEAM defense - is also silly. Rip is a complete team player, make no mistake.
He plays good team defense no doubt, but he is definitely the only minor weak link in a very difficult defense. Considering how good they are overall though that is not to say he is an awful defender. Being a good team defender is what is important as even the Spurs have done this with typically awful defenders like Brent Barry and Michael Finley. I would definitely rate Rip much better than those two, but they somehow manage to play in the general team defensive system of the Spurs. I wish more players in the NBA would figure out that if you can play a solid team defense you don't have to be Ron Artest or Ben Wallace to help your team.

I completely disagree. Watch a few more Pistons games and see how good and tenacious Rip is on defense. He is nowhere near as bad defensively as Finley and Barry. Always has a hand up and can chase and play the passing lanes. He uses his body well to direct an offensive player where he needs to.

Can we stop with Rip Hamilton for a day or so? Is it possible?

He is nowhere near as bad defensively as Finley and Barry. Yeah, I think I was agreeing with you, but whatever. I was commenting about team defense, but you see someone mention Rip and fly off the handle as usual.

Elton Brand is having a great season too. But he never gets mentioned. 24.9 ppg, 10.4 rbp, 2.56 bpg

Plus, the Clippers are actually a team on the rise.

Yeah, I think I was agreeing with you, but whatever. I was commenting about team defense, but you see someone mention Rip and fly off the handle as usual.

It's just old, you know?

Pistons rebound with an easy victory against Minny. Next up, 3 guaranteed wins. Philly with no Iverson, Indiana with no O' Neal and Atlanta with... no NBA ready players. Ouch, that was harsh but it's true.

That should put them over 40 wins before the All star break. Nice feat.

So when we gonna start talking about Dallas? They scare me.

Brand has been mentioned several times in the thread. Imo, Cassell and Mobley have a major hand in the Clippers turnaround season and they make Brand better. Brand should be an all-star, but not MVP.

I didn't say anything about Rip winning a defensive award. More BS from you guys...

But, since you brought it up, there was a great article in either the Detroit Free Press or the Detroit News about a week ago, that details Rip's defensive efforts. Showed how he held his opponents scoring way down this year with his perimeter defense.

Memphis - Eddie Jones - 5-14 FG - 12 pts.
Minnesota - Trenton Hassell - 3-3 FG - 6 pts.
Houston - David Wesley - 2-5 FG - 5 pts.
New York - Jamal Crawford - 1-6FG - 2 pts.
Atlanta - Joe Johnson - 5-16 FG - 13 pts.
Boston - Ricky Davis - 0-8 FG - 0 pts.
Charlotte - Keith Bogans - 2-5 - 4 pts.
San Antonio - Michael Finley - 0-6 FG - 0 pts.

The only two exceptions were Michael Redd and Kobe Bryant whom the 'team' covered with multiple switches. Both went off for big points. His opponents are averaging less then 6 pts. against him in the last 10 games if you take away Kobe and Redd's games.

Am I saying he's a defensive player of the year candidate? No way. But to scoff on his defense - great TEAM defense - is also silly. Rip is a complete team player, make no mistake.

uhhh, all of those guys suck or aren't go to guys anymore. The only good players on that list are Joe Johnson & Ricky Davis.

uhhh, all of those guys suck or aren't go to guys anymore. The only good players on that list are Joe Johnson & Ricky Davis.

And? He does his job no matter who he's playing.

And I do agree that Eddie Jones sucks. ;)

At this point, I honestly couldn't see anybody other than one of the top three acknowledged candidates, (Kobe, Lebron, and Nash), win the award. Of course anything can still happen.

And? He does his job no matter who he's playing.

And I do agree that Eddie Jones sucks. ;)

when you're guarding guys who barely belong in the NBA like Keith Bogans, then that's nothing to brag about.

List elite scorers like Wade, Kobe, T-Mac, AI, Carter, Arenas, Paul Pierce etc. then you can make an argument.

when you're guarding guys who barely belong in the NBA like Keith Bogans, then that's nothing to brag about.

List elite scorers like Wade, Kobe, T-Mac, AI, Carter, Arenas, Paul Pierce etc. then you can make an argument.

I wasn't making an argument. You brought it up. But to say Rip is not a good defensive player is simply ignorant. The stats don't back you up. All NBA shooting guards that start are there for a reason. They can play. To keep them in check, whether they are Kobe Bryant or not, is still his job and he does it.

The end.

Can we just start another thread for Rip Hamilton? Wait, don't we already have a Pistons thread somewhere?

Even though Mobley and Cassell (and the return of Livingston) are key to the Clippers doing better this year, Brand still deserves some MVP mention for being the glue, and for adding that jumpshot he relies so much on now. And let's not forget their second best player has been out for a while. I mean, when Cassell and Sprewell were added to the Timberwolves, Garnett still got consideration, right? Of course, unless the Clips just go off and win the division, Brand's got no chance. I think he was 8th in all-star voting at his position. I didn't expect him to beat out the likes of McGrady, Duncan, or Garnett, but still, 8th? I know the fans don't vote for MVP, and he'll certainly make the coaches vote, but that's how overlooked he is.

At this point, I honestly couldn't see anybody other than one of the top three acknowledged candidates, (Kobe, Lebron, and Nash), win the award. Of course anything can still happen.

Actually Chauncey is one of those 3, Lebron is not.

Actually Chauncey is one of those 3, Lebron is not.


Due to the depth of the Pistons, I don't believe he is.

Besides, when a player averages 30+ points a game, shoots near 50%, averages 7 rebounds and nearly 7 assists a game, (something I don't believe has ever been done before in the NBA, though I am not certain if Oscar ever did), and takes an otherwise woeful team to one of the top records in his conference, he is a top MVP candidate, if not the top.

Due to the depth of the Pistons, I don't believe he is.

Besides, when a player averages 30+ points a game, shoots near 50%, averages 7 rebounds and nearly 7 assists a game, (something I don't believe has ever been done before in the NBA, though I am not certain if Oscar ever did), and takes an otherwise woeful team to one of the top records in his conference, he is a top MVP candidate, if not the top.

Oscar averaged a triple double for an entire year.

But I don't think he did it with 30+ points, which is what the OP was speculating had never been done before... 30+, 7, and 7.

I wasn't making an argument. You brought it up. But to say Rip is not a good defensive player is simply ignorant. The stats don't back you up. All NBA shooting guards that start are there for a reason. They can play. To keep them in check, whether they are Kobe Bryant or not, is still his job and he does it.

The end.

I never said that he wasn't a good defender. I said that the list of players you posted that Rip stopped wasn't impressive at all. It's akin to beating up a retarded or physically handicapped kid and then bragging about it...in other words, nothing special.

Your list of ppl that Rip "stopped"
Memphis - Eddie Jones - 5-14 FG - 12 pts.
(He averages 12.6 PPG so Rip only held him to 0.6 PPG below his average. In Eddie Jones other game vs. Detroit on 12-19-05, he had 11 points on 5 for 9 shooting.)

Minnesota - Trenton Hassell - 3-3 FG - 6 pts.
(He averages 9.1 PPG but he shot 100% from the field so if anything Rip played poor defense against him to allow him to hit all 3 of his shots; In Hassell's other game vs. Detroit this year on 2-1-06, Hassell scored 14 points on 6 for 11 shooting; Thus, He's averaging 10 PPG against the Pistons which is higher than his average of 9.1 PPG)

Houston - David Wesley - 2-5 FG - 5 pts.
(This game didn't even exist. The 2 times that Detroit played Houston this year: On 1/22/06, Wesley shot 2 for 5 but scored 10 points, not 5; On 11/18/05, Wesley was 5 for 8 and scored 14 points. So in Rip's 2 games vs. Houston he's allowed Wesley to score 12 PPG while he's only averaging 10.8 PPG. Thus, Wesley did better against Rip than he does against the rest of the league)

New York - Jamal Crawford - 1-6FG - 2 pts
(On 1-19-06, Crawford had a terrible game against Detroit scoring 2 points on 1-6 shooting. However, you forgot to mention that on 12-2-05 vs Detroit, Crawford had 22 points on 8-17 shooting so he effectively lit up Rip in that game. Crawford only averages 14.2 PPG and is one of the most erratic scorers in the league. Plus he comes off the bench A LOT)


Atlanta - Joe Johnson - 5-16 FG - 13 pts.
(On 1-18-06, Joe Johnson had 13 points on 5-16 shooting vs. Detroit but he also had 7 rebounds, 7 assists, & 2 steals...so not a bad game by any means. He's only played one game agains the Pistons and for the year is averaging 19.8 PPG).

Boston - Ricky Davis - 0-8 FG - 0 pts.
(On 1-16-06, Ricky Davis had a terrible game vs. Detroit with 0 points on 0-8 shooting, but he's also played Detroit in 3 other games. On 2-1-06, he scored 11 points vs. Detroit on 4-10 shooting. On 11-15-05 @ Detroit, he torched Rip for 31 points on 14-21 shooting. He also had 5 boards and 9 assists. On 11-4-05, Davis had 10 points on 4-12 shooting with 5 boards and 8 assists. So he's averaging 13 PPG against Detroit when he's averaging 19.4 for the year ).

Charlotte - Keith Bogans - 2-5 - 4 pts.
(C'mon, this guy is averaging 8.7 PPG on the Bobcats...he doesn't even belong in the league. You forgot to mention in that game vs. Detroit on 1-14-06, in which Bogans had 4 points on 2-5 shooting, that he only played 19 minutes...not exactly starter minutes. Also, on 12-17-05 vs. Detroit, Bogans had 8 points on 3-5 shooting in only 14 minutes. Hek, Bogans only averages 23.8 MPG and that's cuz Kareem Rush has been hurt for much of the year)

San Antonio - Michael Finley - 0-6 FG - 0 pts
(Finley comes off the bench and only averages 9.4 PPG in 27.3 MPG. In that game vs. Detroit on 1-12-06 where he had 0 points on 0-6 shooting, he only played 19 minutes. Finley is no where near the player where he once was.)

If I had the time, I would calculate the stats of the 2-guards that Rip guarded and I'm sure that a lot of them would have pretty good games. To me Rip is a Reggie Miller clone without 3-point range and he plays defense just like him, i.e. average defense at best.

I never said that he wasn't a good defender. I said that the list of players you posted that Rip stopped wasn't impressive at all. It's akin to beating up a retarded or physically handicapped kid and then bragging about it...in other words, nothing special.

Your list of ppl that Rip "stopped"
Memphis - Eddie Jones - 5-14 FG - 12 pts.
(He averages 12.6 PPG so Rip only held him to 0.6 PPG below his average. In Eddie Jones other game vs. Detroit on 12-19-05, he had 11 points on 5 for 9 shooting.)

Minnesota - Trenton Hassell - 3-3 FG - 6 pts.
(He averages 9.1 PPG but he shot 100% from the field so if anything Rip played poor defense against him to allow him to hit all 3 of his shots; In Hassell's other game vs. Detroit this year on 2-1-06, Hassell scored 14 points on 6 for 11 shooting; Thus, He's averaging 10 PPG against the Pistons which is higher than his average of 9.1 PPG)

Houston - David Wesley - 2-5 FG - 5 pts.
(This game didn't even exist. The 2 times that Detroit played Houston this year: On 1/22/06, Wesley shot 2 for 5 but scored 10 points, not 5; On 11/18/05, Wesley was 5 for 8 and scored 14 points. So in Rip's 2 games vs. Houston he's allowed Wesley to score 12 PPG while he's only averaging 10.8 PPG. Thus, Wesley did better against Rip than he does against the rest of the league)

New York - Jamal Crawford - 1-6FG - 2 pts
(On 1-19-06, Crawford had a terrible game against Detroit scoring 2 points on 1-6 shooting. However, you forgot to mention that on 12-2-05 vs Detroit, Crawford had 22 points on 8-17 shooting so he effectively lit up Rip in that game. Crawford only averages 14.2 PPG and is one of the most erratic scorers in the league. Plus he comes off the bench A LOT)


Atlanta - Joe Johnson - 5-16 FG - 13 pts.
(On 1-18-06, Joe Johnson had 13 points on 5-16 shooting vs. Detroit but he also had 7 rebounds, 7 assists, & 2 steals...so not a bad game by any means. He's only played one game agains the Pistons and for the year is averaging 19.8 PPG).

Boston - Ricky Davis - 0-8 FG - 0 pts.
(On 1-16-06, Ricky Davis had a terrible game vs. Detroit with 0 points on 0-8 shooting, but he's also played Detroit in 3 other games. On 2-1-06, he scored 11 points vs. Detroit on 4-10 shooting. On 11-15-05 @ Detroit, he torched Rip for 31 points on 14-21 shooting. He also had 5 boards and 9 assists. On 11-4-05, Davis had 10 points on 4-12 shooting with 5 boards and 8 assists. So he's averaging 13 PPG against Detroit when he's averaging 19.4 for the year ).

Charlotte - Keith Bogans - 2-5 - 4 pts.
(C'mon, this guy is averaging 8.7 PPG on the Bobcats...he doesn't even belong in the league. You forgot to mention in that game vs. Detroit on 1-14-06, in which Bogans had 4 points on 2-5 shooting, that he only played 19 minutes...not exactly starter minutes. Also, on 12-17-05 vs. Detroit, Bogans had 8 points on 3-5 shooting in only 14 minutes. Hek, Bogans only averages 23.8 MPG and that's cuz Kareem Rush has been hurt for much of the year)

San Antonio - Michael Finley - 0-6 FG - 0 pts
(Finley comes off the bench and only averages 9.4 PPG in 27.3 MPG. In that game vs. Detroit on 1-12-06 where he had 0 points on 0-6 shooting, he only played 19 minutes. Finley is no where near the player where he once was.)

If I had the time, I would calculate the stats of the 2-guards that Rip guarded and I'm sure that a lot of them would have pretty good games. To me Rip is a Reggie Miller clone without 3-point range and he plays defense just like him, i.e. average defense at best.

That's a lot of time and effort to prove my point for me. On average he holds the players he plays under their averages. He plays great solid team defense and plays on one of the best defensive teams in the league. I like how you call guys terrible yet highlight them when they do succeed.

Oh and by the way, Rip is leading the league in 3 pt. shooting at a 50% clip. You should have looked that stat up too... :lol:

Due to the depth of the Pistons, I don't believe he is.

Besides, when a player averages 30+ points a game, shoots near 50%, averages 7 rebounds and nearly 7 assists a game, (something I don't believe has ever been done before in the NBA, though I am not certain if Oscar ever did), and takes an otherwise woeful team to one of the top records in his conference, he is a top MVP candidate, if not the top.

I used to make this argument for Grant Hill back in the day when Grant was trying for a triple double average. No one bought it back then so I guess the same argument won't work now.

That's a lot of time and effort to prove my point for me. On average he holds the players he plays under their averages. He plays great solid team defense and plays on one of the best defensive teams in the league. I like how you call guys terrible yet highlight them when they do succeed.

Oh and by the way, Rip is leading the league in 3 pt. shooting at a 50% clip. You should have looked that stat up too... :lol:

Huh? Those figures don't seem to prove your point at all, and it sounds like the original figures you listed were awfully selective as you left out quite a few productive games that some of these players had and Dabaomb pointed out. It's a shame that he had to go through that time and effort since you left out numbers that would make Rip look worse.

From both of your speculations, it seems like Rip is merely an average defender to me. Especially when you have the Wallace's behind you.

That's a lot of time and effort to prove my point for me. On average he holds the players he plays under their averages. He plays great solid team defense and plays on one of the best defensive teams in the league. I like how you call guys terrible yet highlight them when they do succeed.

Oh and by the way, Rip is leading the league in 3 pt. shooting at a 50% clip. You should have looked that stat up too... :lol:

You're unbelievable. I said that Rip allows players to basically score at their average if not better. He's an average defender at best. Not terrible, but I wouldn't even call him good.

Oh yeah, I can't wait until the Nets get a 5th seed or higher in the East and I win my bet against you. Hopefully you haven't forgotten about that.

Eddie Jones: 1.1 points below his average

Trenton Hassell: 0.9 points above his average. He allowed him to shoot at 64.3% in those 2 games. That isn't exactly great defense on a player who couldn't score if his life depended on it. Hassell is a defensive stopper, not a scorer.

David Wesley: 1.2 points above his average

Crawford: 3.2 points below his average but those 2 games were 0 points and 22 points so not exactly a great sample population of data.

Joe Johson: In the only game that they played, Rip gave up 13 points, 6.8 below his average. However, Rip allowed him to excel in other areas. JJ got 7 rebounds, 7 assists, and 2 steals.

Ricky Davis: You have a point but Rip did get lit up for 31 Points vs. Davis.

Keith Bogans: C'mon, Kieth Bogans, a guy who plays under 20 minutes per game and isn't even a starter

Michael Finley: Isn't even a starter and is 34 years old.

In regards to the 3-pointer stat. Reggie averaged 1.84 3's Per game for his career, while your boy Rip is averaging 0.7/game this year and only 0.4/game in his career. Reggie also holds the record for most career 3's made with 2560 made. Dale Ellis is the next highest at 1719. Rip Hamilton in his 6.5+ seasons has 202 total 3's.

Personally, I'd rather have Michael Redd on my team. A player who lives by the mid-range Jumper but can do much more than Rip.

I swear, I'm going to fucking go postal if I have to read another fucking thing about Rip Hamilton.

Due to the depth of the Pistons, I don't believe he is.

Besides, when a player averages 30+ points a game, shoots near 50%, averages 7 rebounds and nearly 7 assists a game, (something I don't believe has ever been done before in the NBA, though I am not certain if Oscar ever did), and takes an otherwise woeful team to one of the top records in his conference, he is a top MVP candidate, if not the top.


The only problem I have with that statement is the idea that Cleveland is an otherwise woeful team. They mave a multiple all-star center in Ilgauskas who's pretty good. Donyell Marshall and Drew Gooden are good players. Larry Hughes was fantastic the last two years. They are several other decent role players. I look at that roster and I look to the rest of the Eastern conference, it looks pretty good to me. The East is just that weak. But otherwise, James is having a fantastic year.

I swear, I'm going to fucking go postal if I have to read another fucking thing about Rip Hamilton.

Let Rip have his run. We are probably the only people in the entire world that have anything at all to say about Rip.

He definitely deserves to be an all-star this year and is clearly the fifth best starter on the Pistons. :up: Rip

Let Rip have his run. We are probably the only people in the entire world that have anything at all to say about Rip.

He definitely deserves to be an all-star this year and is clearly the fifth best starter on the Pistons. :up: Rip

LurkerDan http://home.tiscali.be/pascalc/roughryders/signatures/noops_gets_on_my_nerves.gif

It's Rip Hamilton awareness week. For the record, I haven't brought it up in this post.

Yes, I remember our bet. I admit, I forgot about the technicality that is possibly going to let you win - no matter how horrible they are, their horrible division may give them the 3 seed. Regardless, you're still all wet, as you claimed them 'even higher' than the Pistons. No doubt who is right there.

Lastly, you still have not defined your end of the bargain and I have. You accepted mine, I still need to accept yours. I'm not backing out, but you never did respond and I won't accept just anything as my tag line.

BTW, you are entitled to your opinion on Rip's defense. Nuf' said.

Huh? Those figures don't seem to prove your point at all, and it sounds like the original figures you listed were awfully selective as you left out quite a few productive games that some of these players had and Dabaomb pointed out. It's a shame that he had to go through that time and effort since you left out numbers that would make Rip look worse.

From both of your speculations, it seems like Rip is merely an average defender to me. Especially when you have the Wallace's behind you.

Actually, if you had read my post, you'd find that I was referring to an article, not being selective.

It's Rip Hamilton awareness week. For the record, I haven't brought it up in this post.

Yes, I remember our bet. I admit, I forgot about the technicality that is possibly going to let you win - no matter how horrible they are, their horrible division may give them the 3 seed. Regardless, you're still all wet, as you claimed them 'even higher' than the Pistons. No doubt who is right there.

Lastly, you still have not defined your end of the bargain and I have. You accepted mine, I still need to accept yours. I'm not backing out, but you never did respond and I won't accept just anything as my tag line.

BTW, you are entitled to your opinion on Rip's defense. Nuf' said.

"All wet?" What the hek does that mean?

You continue to misquote me as well. I said that if the Nets had signed Shareef, then they would contend for the top seed in the East. I still would've probably been wrong about that but the Nets would be much better than 23-21. Plus, they have talent as they did beat your almighty Detroit Pistons the other night.

I will give you credit though. I'm shocked at how well the Pistons are playing with Flip as the coach. They're definitely the class of the NBA now.

Actually, if you had read my post, you'd find that I was referring to an article, not being selective.

Then it sounds like a poorly written article since it only highlights Rip's success when the same players have also torched him. Regardless, I still don't see how Dabaomb's revised figured proved your point.

"All wet?" What the hek does that mean?

You continue to misquote me as well. I said that if the Nets had signed Shareef, then they would contend for the top seed in the East. I still would've probably been wrong about that but the Nets would be much better than 23-21. Plus, they have talent as they did beat your almighty Detroit Pistons the other night.

I will give you credit though. I'm shocked at how well the Pistons are playing with Flip as the coach. They're definitely the class of the NBA now.


You don't have to give him credit, he did not do anything.

The Nets are surprisingly better than I thought they would be, but in all reality they are headed for a first round exit. Jason Kidd is half the player he used to be and even if they catch the Pistons on an off night, as Indiana did the other night, both of those teams are headed nowhere but the lottery in the near future. Your suggestion, however you mask it now was that the Pistons would flounder under Flip Saunders and the Nets would soar to higher heights. Sorry, didn't happen...

BTW, is Kobe still the MVP when his team loses back to back to two of the worst teams in the NBA? Or when his team is .500? I'm sure you'll justify it cause he still got 30 pts.! Wooh!

The Nets are surprisingly better than I thought they would be, but in all reality they are headed for a first round exit. Jason Kidd is half the player he used to be and even if they catch the Pistons on an off night, as Indiana did the other night, both of those teams are headed nowhere but the lottery in the near future. Your suggestion, however you mask it now was that the Pistons would flounder under Flip Saunders and the Nets would soar to higher heights. Sorry, didn't happen...

BTW, is Kobe still the MVP when his team loses back to back to two of the worst teams in the NBA? Or when his team is .500? I'm sure you'll justify it cause he still got 30 pts.! Wooh!

Hey I hate Kobe more than anyone so he's' not getting an MVP from me.

I said that the Nets would do well, but I NEVER said that they would contend for the top spot without Shareef. If they had Shareef I said that they would contend for the top seed. I said that with Shareef that they'd definitely be a top 4 seed (behind Miami, Detroit, and Indiana). Hek, they still might get a top 4 seed and record since only Detroit is out of reach. They could conceivably catch Miami, who they beat on Saturday, and Cleveland.

I did think that the Pistons would flounder with Flip but I always said that they would still be a top 3 seed in the East.

In regards to the bet for what to put in your signature line when you lose, I'll take suggestions from other members of this forum.

I'm sure that you can tell that almost no one on this board likes you so I'll probably get some pretty good ideas :lol:

BTW, is Kobe still the MVP when his team loses back to back to two of the worst teams in the NBA? Or when his team is .500? I'm sure you'll justify it cause he still got 30 pts.! Wooh!

The Hornets are far from one of the "worst teams in the NBA." Check your stats, you seem to get those incorrect a lot.

The Hornets are far from one of the "worst teams in the NBA." Check your stats, you seem to get those incorrect a lot.

The Hornets suck man. Sorry to break that to you. Not gonna win a title now or in the next 25 years. The point was that Kobe is so damn good, that he should be leading his team over them when his team needs him the most, 3 game losing streak and all... After all, he is the MVP, at least in some skewed circles viewpoint.

In regards to the bet for what to put in your signature line when you lose, I'll take suggestions from other members of this forum.

I'm sure that you can tell that almost no one on this board likes you so I'll probably get some pretty good ideas :lol:

Well if you're gonna make it personal, then the deals off. I'm just talking sports here, not sure why anybody would dislike me on a personal level for debating about basketball. The only thing I can tell for sure by your statement is that *you* don't like me. So you can go sit on our friendly wager.

I just don't get you people who have to personally attack those that disagree with your viewpoint. I don't think I've ever personally attacked anyone, but I get them all the time. Not sure why...

Well if you're gonna make it personal, then the deals off. I'm just talking sports here, not sure why anybody would dislike me on a personal level for debating about basketball. The only thing I can tell for sure by your statement is that *you* don't like me. So you can go sit on our friendly wager.

I just don't get you people who have to personally attack those that disagree with your viewpoint. I don't think I've ever personally attacked anyone, but I get them all the time. Not sure why...


The deal is still on. You can't just call off a bet because you know that you'll lose. That's bush league my friend.

Hey, I said that I would take suggestions from others.

It'll be something like "Kerborus doesn't know anything about basketball." It won't be somethign terrible.

The deal is still on. You can't just call off a bet because you know that you'll lose. That's bush league my friend.

Hey, I said that I would take suggestions from others.

It'll be something like "Kerborus doesn't know anything about basketball." It won't be somethign terrible.

Example? Show me an example of a personal attack and the deal is on. Plus, come up with your own tagline - mine was jovial 'I will never understimate the Pistons again' not 'Dabomb is a dumbass'.

Bush League is insulting me like you did above for no good reason.

You're backing out of a bet because someone hurt your feelings?

Weak.

*head explodes*

Example? Show me an example of a personal attack and the deal is on. Plus, come up with your own tagline - mine was jovial 'I will never understimate the Pistons again' not 'Dabomb is a dumbass'.

Bush League is insulting me like you did above for no good reason.

I don't hate anyone on this forum but I can't exactly say that you're my best friend.

I haven't made any personal attacks on you. How is saying that no one on this board really likes you a personal attack?

Look at what you just wrote above, you wrote that "Plus, come up with your own tagline - mine was jovial 'I will never understimate the Pistons again' not 'Dabomb is a dumbass'." You didn't call me a dumbass but you intimated it.

It's like saying "I'm not saying you're fat, but you're fat."


I guarantee that if the Nets were 15-30 instead of 24-21, you wouldn't back out of the bet for anything. You're just scared that you're gonna lose and if you back out, then everyone will know what type of man you are.

I don't hate anyone on this forum but I can't exactly say that you're my best friend.

I haven't made any personal attacks on you. How is saying that no one on this board really likes you a personal attack?

Look at what you just wrote above, you wrote that "Plus, come up with your own tagline - mine was jovial 'I will never understimate the Pistons again' not 'Dabomb is a dumbass'." You didn't call me a dumbass but you intimated it.

It's like saying "I'm not saying you're fat, but you're fat."


I guarantee that if the Nets were 15-30 instead of 24-21, you wouldn't back out of the bet for anything. You're just scared that you're gonna lose and if you back out, then everyone will know what type of man you are.

This is really boring. Last I'm gonna say about it.

I said - Hey Let's bet.
You said - 'ok'
I said - What are we betting?
You said - Taglines
I said - 'ok here's mine'
You said 'ok, deal'
I said - Well what are you getting if I lose?
You said '...'

I hardly see that as a completed bet. I don't remember me being able to accept the terms, do you? So excuse me if I don't want to change my tagline to something ridiculous now that I know you have some sort of misplaced grudge against me.

Further, if you examine what I said about 'Dabomb being a dumbass' I was playing off your example 'Kerborus knows nothing about basketball'. In other words, showing how you are personally attacking me without really doing it. Sigh. In essence, the plane flew over your head. (BTW, nice that you're editing your posts before some people can see them.) I like how you point out an indirect attack but deny that saying 'no one here likes you' is an attack. Talk about weak.

To make a long story short, I'm having a moratorium about this goofy bet, if you want to discuss it then e-mail me personally. I'll also talk about Rip Hamilton, personally, as an aside (because I'm sure someone's going to throw him out here somehow...) I'm concerned for LurkerDan's health so I'm gonna stop now...

This is really boring. Last I'm gonna say about it.

I said - Hey Let's bet.
You said - 'ok'
I said - What are we betting?
You said - Taglines
I said - 'ok here's mine'
You said 'ok, deal'
I said - Well what are you getting if I lose?
You said '...'

I hardly see that as a completed bet. I don't remember me being able to accept the terms, do you? So excuse me if I don't want to change my tagline to something ridiculous now that I know you have some sort of misplaced grudge against me.

Further, if you examine what I said about 'Dabomb being a dumbass' I was playing off your example 'Kerborus knows nothing about basketball'. In other words, showing how you are personally attacking me without really doing it. Sigh. In essence, the plane flew over your head. (BTW, nice that you're editing your posts before some people can see them.) I like how you point out an indirect attack but deny that saying 'no one here likes you' is an attack. Talk about weak.

To make a long story short, I'm having a moratorium about this goofy bet, if you want to discuss it then e-mail me personally. I'll also talk about Rip Hamilton, personally, as an aside (because I'm sure someone's going to throw him out here somehow...) I'm concerned for LurkerDan's health so I'm gonna stop now...

I think that you're mistaking me for "The Cow."

The details of the bet are in the following thread. Your bet with The Cow is there as well.
NBA Offseason News & Discussion Thread (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?p=6315705&highlight=signature#post6315705)

Our bet was for $10 and to put something in the other's signature line.

Agreed!!

For your sig, it shall red 'Damn, Rip Hamilton really IS a better player than Dwyane Wade!' ;)


Honestly, for your sig, I was always thinking of "Dabaomb knows more about basketball than Kerborus. Kerborus shall not question Dabaomb's basketball knowledge since he lost their bet."

Also, I edited my posts because originally they were too bitter so I toned them down a bit.

I think that you're mistaking me for "The Cow."

The details of the bet are in the following thread. Your bet with The Cow is there as well.
NBA Offseason News & Discussion Thread (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?p=6315705&highlight=signature#post6315705)

Our bet was for $10 and to put something in the other's signature line.




Honestly, for your sig, I was always thinking of "Dabaomb knows more about basketball than Kerborus. Kerborus shall not question Dabaomb's basketball knowledge since he lost their bet."

Also, I edited my posts because originally they were too bitter so I toned them down a bit.


Nothing personal against kerborus, but dabaomb you know he wont give into your terms or shall i say the terms already agreed upon, good luck to both.

I think that you're mistaking me for "The Cow."

The details of the bet are in the following thread. Your bet with The Cow is there as well.
NBA Offseason News & Discussion Thread (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?p=6315705&highlight=signature#post6315705)

And I'm still fine with it.

The Hornets suck man. Sorry to break that to you. Not gonna win a title now or in the next 25 years. The point was that Kobe is so damn good, that he should be leading his team over them when his team needs him the most, 3 game losing streak and all... After all, he is the MVP, at least in some skewed circles viewpoint.

Again, you said the Hornets are one of the worst teams in basketball. That's not true, no matter how you want to spin it. We're not talking about winning titles. They're a mid-level team. I know you just don't want to admit you're wrong, but still; Your statement was incorrect.

But hey, at least we know you stick to your word and your bets.

The Hornets suck man. Sorry to break that to you. Not gonna win a title now or in the next 25 years. The point was that Kobe is so damn good, that he should be leading his team over them when his team needs him the most, 3 game losing streak and all... After all, he is the MVP, at least in some skewed circles viewpoint.


i think i can say for certain that your basketball knowledge is very, i mean very limited, specifically in regards to anything other than rip and that's a stretch. Just stick to talking about the pistons because other than that it's meaningless. I am really trying to hold back what i really wanted to say.

Again, you said the Hornets are one of the worst teams in basketball. That's not true, no matter how you want to spin it. We're not talking about winning titles. They're a mid-level team. I know you just don't want to admit you're wrong, but still; Your statement was incorrect.

But hey, at least we know you stick to your word and your bets.


incorrect is putting it mildly.

i think i can say for certain that your basketball knowledge is very, i mean very limited, specifically in regards to anything other than rip and that's a stretch. Just stick to talking about the pistons because other than that it's meaningless. I am really trying to hold back what i really wanted to say.

Well, all I'll say is that if you study the offseason thread I was right a lot more than a lot of you all.

Detroit is head and shoulders the best team in basketball. NJ stinks, though their 3rd seed will (possibly) come on a technicality. Spin or no spin, if Kobe is the MVP of the league, he should be able to beat those juggernaut .500 bound Hornets and the even scarier Bobcats. (Oh - I forgot! He scored 81 pts. so he's automatically MVP). Shaq is fat and old and Dwyane Wade is not the second coming of Michael Jordan.

In the end the Pistons will win the title barring a devestating injury. Mark it down. BTW you guys are really hurting my feelings :lol:

Try and chill a little, it's just basketball chat. I love putting all you bees in a jar and shaking you up, it's just too fun. Especially the Kobe fans... I'll honor the bets btw, if the whole sig thing is comparable to what I said. I simply won't put a personal attack in my sig - 'Hi - I'm a dumbass!' Nothing doing there.

Well, all I'll say is that if you study the offseason thread I was right a lot more than a lot of you all.

Detroit is head and shoulders the best team in basketball. NJ stinks, though their 3rd seed will (possibly) come on a technicality. Spin or no spin, if Kobe is the MVP of the league, he should be able to beat those juggernaut .500 bound Hornets and the even scarier Bobcats. (Oh - I forgot! He scored 81 pts. so he's automatically MVP). Shaq is fat and old and Dwyane Wade is not the second coming of Michael Jordan.

In the end the Pistons will win the title barring a devestating injury. Mark it down. BTW you guys are really hurting my feelings :lol:

Try and chill a little, it's just basketball chat. I love putting all you bees in a jar and shaking you up, it's just too fun. Especially the Kobe fans... I'll honor the bets btw, if the whole sig thing is comparable to what I said. I simply won't put a personal attack in my sig - 'Hi - I'm a dumbass!' Nothing doing there.

This is coming from a guy who did not even think his own pistons would beat the heat in game 6 or 7 of their last playoff series.

Well, all I'll say is that if you study the offseason thread I was right a lot more than a lot of you all.

Detroit is head and shoulders the best team in basketball. NJ stinks, though their 3rd seed will (possibly) come on a technicality. Spin or no spin, if Kobe is the MVP of the league, he should be able to beat those juggernaut .500 bound Hornets and the even scarier Bobcats. (Oh - I forgot! He scored 81 pts. so he's automatically MVP). Shaq is fat and old and Dwyane Wade is not the second coming of Michael Jordan.

In the end the Pistons will win the title barring a devestating injury. Mark it down. BTW you guys are really hurting my feelings :lol:

Try and chill a little, it's just basketball chat. I love putting all you bees in a jar and shaking you up, it's just too fun. Especially the Kobe fans... I'll honor the bets btw, if the whole sig thing is comparable to what I said. I simply won't put a personal attack in my sig - 'Hi - I'm a dumbass!' Nothing doing there.

If Chauncey Billups is MVP of the league, he should be able to beat the Nets since they stink and are only a .500 team, right? Or are your terms different for non-Pistons? I do like how you changed the topic to how good the Pistons are. No one here is arguing with you about how good the Pistons are this year.

I wish i could make bets and decide to put my own terms and restrictions half way through when the possibility of losing comes up, even for an internet forum bet :lol:

If Chauncey Billups is MVP of the league, he should be able to beat the Nets since they stink and are only a .500 team, right? Or are your terms different for non-Pistons? I do like how you changed the topic to how good the Pistons are. No one here is arguing with you about how good the Pistons are this year.

I wish i could make bets and decide to put my own terms and restrictions half way through when the possibility of losing comes up, even for an internet forum bet :lol:

Actually, you're proving my point. If you watched enough basketball, you'd know that Billups has been injured of late: deep thigh bruise and tissue damage in his shooting hand. What a surprise, the Pistons have lost 2 of 4.

Billups worth is highlighted by the recent losses. BTW, the Pistons are 31 games over .500 and the Lakers? Not even close. Not this year, not next year or the year after. Bryant is the cancer of that team.

I said I'd honor the bet - if he doesn't make the sig a personal attack, something you all are very fond of. Maybe I should get in the game more. The Cow's bet is safe. He was on the up and up the whole way.

This is coming from a guy who did not even think his own pistons would beat the heat in game 6 or 7 of their last playoff series.

Did you think the Pistons would win? I'm sure no one did. The Heat looked great. If not for fat Shaq and D-Wade's poor conditioning, we should have lost.

Kerborus - This isn't a response to any specific post by you, just sort of a general response to all of them. If everybody who posts -- and I'm pretty sure it's everybody -- thinks you are a complete Pistons homer, that your basketball knowledge is limited, and that you are unable to realistically assess the skills and abilities of non-Pistons players... then it's probably true.

And I say it again: backing out of the bet is weak.

Did you think the Pistons would win? I'm sure no one did. The Heat looked great. If not for fat Shaq and D-Wade's poor conditioning, we should have lost.
There were several Pistons fans that did not give up on them like you did. Go find the thread and re-read it.

jesus christ, will you guys shut the fuck up already? this is supposed to be a thread about NBA half season awards. Y'all should start a "bitch at each other thread tangentially involving the NBA". -rolleyes-

jesus christ, will you guys shut the fuck up already? this is supposed to be a thread about NBA half season awards. Y'all should start a "bitch at each other thread tangentially involving the NBA". -rolleyes-

just put all of us on ignore ;)

Did you think the Pistons would win? I'm sure no one did. The Heat looked great. If not for fat Shaq and D-Wade's poor conditioning, we should have lost.

Yeah, if Michael Jordan didn't score so much and Scottie Pippen's defense was poor, the Jazz and Heat would have NBA championships.

If things were different, they would not be the same.

Ouch! Detroit's 1 point loss to Atlanta's gotta hurt. Pachulia really looked super-human against them! Is Rip Hamilton still playing? That was a cheap shot, I know.

Out of respect to LurkerDan, who's opinion here I respect from previous conversations, I won't make any snooty remarks about Detroit losing to Atlanta.

Back on topic, I'm dissapointed that still no one is talking about Elton Brand for MVP.

Out of respect to LurkerDan, who's opinion here I respect from previous conversations, I won't make any snooty remarks about Detroit losing to Atlanta.
:bow: :clap:

I respect LurkerDan too. He seems like a good enough guy. To show my appreciation I'll stop mentioning the soft and handicapped Rip Hamilton for 1 and a half days.

jesus christ, will you guys shut th