Question about OTA hi-def broadcasts and HDTV tuners

[matome]

I just bought a new DLP set that has a built-in HDTV tuner and gave my older DLP that didn't have a tuner to my parents. My parents are old school and don't want cable. If I get them one of those external HDTV tuners, will they be able to get those over-the-air HD broadcasts from the networks (CBS, ABC, etc.) with their roof antenna? If so any suggestions on one? Thanks

[asabase]

I use a Voom receiver (was a customer before they went under). I heard you can get them on ebay cheap.

[Mopower]

On ebay there are tons of Voom receivers. They say they are activated and good for HDTV. Does that mean you just hook it up to the TV and to the antenna and then you will get OTA HDTV for the life of the receiver? I guess I'm confused on what activated means.

[BobDole42]

I just bought a new DLP set that has a built-in HDTV tuner and gave my older DLP that didn't have a tuner to my parents. My parents are old school and don't want cable. If I get them one of those external HDTV tuners, will they be able to get those over-the-air HD broadcasts from the networks (CBS, ABC, etc.) with their roof antenna? If so any suggestions on one? Thanks

That should work. Are you parents old school in not wanting cable in that they don't want to pay for it, or they aren't into new technology? If it's the latter, I would think that a cable box is MUCH easier to use to get HD channels than dealing with OTA.

[Sdallnct]

I also use a Voom box that I bought off ebay for OTA HD (I have Dishnetwork so the only way to get local HD is with OTA - at least for now).

After taking the time to do the initial set up it has the for the most part been trouble free. Some things to keep in mind,

go to antennaweb.org and see how far your signal is, type of antenna you would need, etc.
there is no HD antenna, any antenna will do, but you need to go to antennaweb for a starting point. In general for antenna's, bigger is better, higher is better
for the voom box, it must have been activated before voom went dark. Stay away from any "new in box" units. These won't work. I highly recommend e-mailing the seller and get the newest firmware possible. You cannot update firmware now. Make sure the auction or the seller states that the "unit can scan for local channels". If it is real old firmware you can't scan for channels, meaning it will only work in the area it was initially set up. You also want to make sure it comes with a remote. There are some universal remotes that will work on it, but for the initial set it, it is much easier with the OEM remote.
There is a lot of info on these boxes and it is a cheap way to get into HD
The only issue I have had with mine is the need for the occasional reset. I do this by turning off the unit and unplugging for about 5 minutes and plugging back in. This is needed perhaps once a month. But in my limited experience it happens when I don't use it for while. The more I use it, the less it needs this, or so it seems.

If you don't want to go the Voom route, there was a good deal on a refurbished LG STB with a built in DVD player. Think it was around $180, I'll see if I can find it if you are interested.

[matome]

Thansk for all the info guys.

That should work. Are you parents old school in not wanting cable in that they don't want to pay for it, or they aren't into new technology? If it's the latter, I would think that a cable box is MUCH easier to use to get HD channels than dealing with OTA.

It's a combo of both. They just want to watch stuff like the George Lopez Show and Dancing With The Stars.


Sdallinct, thanks for the antennaweb info. I see Crutchfield has a Samsung tuner for $250, so I may look around and go that route. I've been burned a few times on Ebay and I'm especially leery of electronics purchases through them, particularly when something needs to be set a certain way.

[Spiky]

There's a $90 tuner at Radio Shack. User reports have been up and down, but not horrible.

[Michael Corvin]

Sdallinct, thanks for the antennaweb info. I see Crutchfield has a Samsung tuner for $250, so I may look around and go that route. I've been burned a few times on Ebay and I'm especially leery of electronics purchases through them, particularly when something needs to be set a certain way.

Sucks you are soured on ebay as I use(or did up until Sept) a Voom receiver. I was a former customer and hung onto it. I'm keeping it for when I get an HD ready tv for the family room.

[Sdallnct]

Looks like the LG is OOS right now, but gets pretty good review for both HD STB and DVD player. It evidently goes and comes OOS.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=LST-3510A-R&sourceid=qIp6Q87Bs0yMAknDZCce&cm_ven=CJ&cm_pla=0038388580&cm_ite=LST-3510A-R

[matome]

There's a $90 tuner at Radio Shack. User reports have been up and down, but not horrible.

Wow, thanks for the heads up on this. According to the RS website it's being discontinued, but is still available in some stores so I ran out and picked one up for the $90 (original sticker was still on the box for $250) and it works great! Build-wise the box is a little chintzy compared to the $500+ boxes out there and the remote has horrid range (it almost needs to be pointed directly at it), but the HD picture is actually damn good for free OTA. HDMI and gold plated connectors were a nice surprise though. I have an extra MX500 remote so I'll program that and give it to them as well.


Thanks again for everyone elses suggestions

[Sdallnct]

Great price, thought about picking one up for another room but not available in my area.

They also show a disnetwork HD DVR for $413 which is pretty darn good, but again not available in my area.

[Spiky]

Wow, thanks for the heads up on this. According to the RS website it's being discontinued, but is still available in some stores so I ran out and picked one up for the $90 (original sticker was still on the box for $250) and it works great! Build-wise the box is a little chintzy compared to the $500+ boxes out there and the remote has horrid range (it almost needs to be pointed directly at it), but the HD picture is actually damn good for free OTA. HDMI and gold plated connectors were a nice surprise though. I have an extra MX500 remote so I'll program that and give it to them as well.


Thanks again for everyone elses suggestions
No problem. Actually, OTA HD is probably the best signal you have available to you, unless you want to buy a DVHS player and some DTheater tapes.

[matome]

Great price, thought about picking one up for another room but not available in my area.


Yeah, I just checked the site again this morning and the store I picked it up at is no longer listed, so there probably aren't too many still floating around in stock. It took the lady a while to find mine as well, as it was buried in the back room somewhere. Sucks that you can't get these through the website.

[Red Dog]

For the folks who purchased the Voom receivers off ebay, what were your winning bids (not including shipping)?

[Red Dog]

For the folks who purchased the Voom receivers off ebay, what were your winning bids (not including shipping)?



Anyone?

[mbs]

Anyone?

Just do a search on eBay for completed auctions. It looks like they go for $100 on average (the ones that have the OTA card).

That said, you can get a NEW set top box for $100-200 no problem (and I'm sure you could find cheaper used). This route seems a lot safer (and close to the same price) than hoping you get a correctly activated Voom box off eBay.

[Red Dog]

Just do a search on eBay for completed auctions. It looks like they go for $100 on average (the ones that have the OTA card).

That said, you can get a NEW set top box for $100-200 no problem (and I'm sure you could find cheaper used). This route seems a lot safer (and close to the same price) than hoping you get a correctly activated Voom box off eBay.


The cheapest new ones I see on pricegrabber go for at least $150. :shrug:

[mbs]

The cheapest new ones I see on pricegrabber go for at least $150. :shrug:

Yeah, I just looked and it appears that is the going rate these days. Did manufacturers stop making OTA STBs? I ask because when I was in the market for one (middle of last year), there were many more choices.

I ended up with an RCA ATSC21 that I got from amazon for ~$125. It is now selling for $415. And there are many fewer models available. It looks like the market took a U-turn since I last looked. Guess I got lucky and bought at the right time.

[Spiky]

Other than the Radio Shack $90 model that is disappearing, $150 is the lowest price for new I've heard of. You must have gotten quite the deal on Amazon, or a refurb.

[Sdallnct]

For the folks who purchased the Voom receivers off ebay, what were your winning bids (not including shipping)?

On my 1st one, I got the unit, card, remote AND antenna for $90
On my 2nd one, I got the unit with card (no remote, no antenna) for $35

[darkside]

When I decided to get an HDTV tuner I tried for one of the $90 Radio Shack models, but they were already sold out in my area. I bought the Samsung one for $200 and really love the picture quality and the unit in general. I'm using an indoor antenna and get all the local channels in crystal clear. Considering Time Warner refuses to put Fox on in HD I was glad to finally get to watch some football in HD this season with the OTA box.

[dhmac]

Yeah, I just looked and it appears that is the going rate these days. Did manufacturers stop making OTA STBs? I ask because when I was in the market for one (middle of last year), there were many more choices.

I ended up with an RCA ATSC21 that I got from amazon for ~$125. It is now selling for $415. And there are many fewer models available. It looks like the market took a U-turn since I last looked. Guess I got lucky and bought at the right time.

The lack of STBs makes no sense because STBs are being required by the government to complete the transition from NTSC to ATSC broadcasts in the next few years, so that anyone still receiving TV over-the-air can still get their TV channels. (Although these mandated STBs may possibly just downconvert everything to 480i and not output Hi-Def at all.)

And you did get lucky - I got an RCA ATSC11 for $122 from an eBay store a couple of months ago, but would've preferred an ATSC21 if it had been about the same price.

[dhmac]

I just bought a new DLP set that has a built-in HDTV tuner and gave my older DLP that didn't have a tuner to my parents. My parents are old school and don't want cable. If I get them one of those external HDTV tuners, will they be able to get those over-the-air HD broadcasts from the networks (CBS, ABC, etc.) with their roof antenna? If so any suggestions on one? Thanks

The answer to your question is yes. So go shopping online and search for "ATSC Receiver" or "ATSC Tuner" or just "ATSC" (ATSC stands for "Advanced Television Systems Committee" and is the official name of the newer Hi-Def over-the-air broadcast standard in the U.S.). Be sure to ignore anything returning from the search that's not a Set-Top Box tuner (such as ATSC computer cards), and see what's the best price you can get an STB for. The STB HD tuners are from a number of different manufacturers and the prices range from about $100 up to about $500, so really shop around to get one for a good price.

Also, you might see some of these STB tuners list having "QAM" in addition to ATSC. QAM is what cable companies are using instead of ATSC to send Hi-Def over cable lines. However, anyone who gets cable can just get a cable box to decode this, so although having it in a STB is nice, but it's not essential and is not something I would recommend paying extra for. (IMO, that is - others may disagree.)

[matome]

OK, just picked up another one of those Radio Shack tuners (floor model only at this store, but they gave me a free 2-year warranty extension) and connected it to a regular TV my parents had in the basement. Now (while it's not HD) the regular broadcast channels come in crystal clear instead of the horrid snowy mess and missing channels that was before. At that price it's a great bargain for those with no cable. My parents are in seventh heaven now!

[DthRdrX]

I bought the Samsung unit for like 250 a while ago. It's a great unit for OTA HD.

[matome]

Yeah, if Spiky hadn't pointed me to the radio Shack one, I would definitely have gone with that Samsung.

[laserdogg]

Yeah, if Spiky hadn't pointed me to the radio Shack one, I would definitely have gone with that Samsung.

RS tuner is now 69.97 if there are any left in your local stores

[Sdallnct]

You know the only thing that bugs me a little about HD is durning the football game today. They show the score/quarter information in that little box, but in HD on my 16:9 screen, the box is like a 1/4 into the pic instead of all the way to one side like when watching 4:3. Not sure if they do that to help fold still watching on 4:3 or what, but wish it was all the way to the side.

[darkside]

Yeah, I'm noticing this. I'm guessing its done that way for people with 4:3 HDTVs. The thing that pisses me off the most is how little HD is still being used though. I watched the Spurs game today and made an effort to watch it on the HDTV since it was on ABC and they didn't even bother showing it in HD. Football game looks great though.

[Sdallnct]

Football game looks great though.

Yes it does!

[Sdallnct]

I think the pq on Fox may be even better! At least on my PJ. Course I also think the "toolbar" at the top of the screen is more annoying then the score box in 1/4 of the screen.

[darkside]

The thing that drives me crazy about fox is all the damn graphic overlays on the field. The first down line is one thing, but they have stuff popping up everywhere. HD does look great though.

[matome]

RS tuner is now 69.97 if there are any left in your local stores

Figures the day after I buy two of them at $90, they drop to $70 :lol: That's a hell of a deal for an HDTV tuner or just pulling in better reception for the standard channels.

[DJ_Longfellow]

I have a question. I currently have Comcast HD cable and my MAIN TV is running fine using the HD box. However, I want to add HD to my other TV in my office but I don't want to pay Comcast for another HD box. What's the cheapest way to do that?

Can I get a VOOM HD box (or something similiar and just run coax into it?) I currently have coax running to the TV now, but only SD programming. OR, do I need a HD Antenna....

I guess I'm a bit confused on that part of the equation.

Thanks!

[mbs]

Can I get a VOOM HD box (or something similiar and just run coax into it?) I currently have coax running to the TV now, but only SD programming. OR, do I need a HD Antenna....


The coax is from a cable feed? If so, you want to get a set top box that supports "Clear QAM". It will allow you to pickup any unscrambled HD channels from the cable feed (cable companies are required to send local channels unscrambled (and some send several other HD channels unencrypted).

Cable companies don't use the normal ATSC standard, so any old STB won't do. You need one with QAM capability.

Otherwise, you can always go STB and antenna, but check antennaweb.org to make sure you can receive good signal in your location.

[NitroJMS]

I think I might try to find one of these Radio Shack boxes tomorrow. Do they have Digital Audio outs?

[mbs]

I think I might try to find one of these Radio Shack boxes tomorrow. Do they have Digital Audio outs?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104191&cp=&pg=2&kw=accurian&parentPage=search

You can check in-store stock on-line. Back in September, when I lived in WI, I did manage to find one in WI. But when I went to the store (which was 1.5 h from Madison), the owner said he wouldn't sell it at the discounted price. So be sure to call and ask the price (if it is a far drive). I complained to Radio Shack corporate, but that was some sort of affiliate store that was able to set its own price.

Good luck finding one, I never could find one in WI or OH... but people seem to still be locating them.

[cverneau]

I was able to grab the last one at a Radio Shack near me. This is actually going to be for my parents as I haven't pulled the trigger on a new HDTV yet.
I have a few questions as I'm fairly new to all of this (but I do read as many posts on the issues as I can). Here's my questions:

1. I got one of these boxes as well as a decent indoor antennae for them.
I also checked antennae.org. to see what stations they should receive.
It's my understanding that they'll receive these stations crystal clear and
there will be no "snow" - you either receive the signal or you don't.
Is this correct??
2. They currently have digital cable (Comcast) but do not receive any HD
programming. It's my understanding that to receive the cable company's
HD stations, they would still need another box that supports "Clear QAM"
and that this box would have to be from the cable company. I understand
they'd also have to pay extra to receive these HD stations on top of the
cost for this box. Is this correct??
3. My whole reason for getting them this box was to get OTA reception and if
they're happy, to completely drop cable as they don't watch a quarter of
the stations and its approximately $60 a month. They're older (70 - 80)
and live on a fairly fixed income - so this is a decent bill they could
potentially get rid of each month. Would it still be advantagious for them
to get a box that receives "Clear QAM" and keep Comcast??
4. On antennae.org they list about 35-40 stations that will be received, but
only 10 of them are listed with the asterik (*) - meaning digital. The rest
are listed as analog. Will more stations go to digital as time goes on??
Do the stations listed as digital (*) mean HD??

I've read as much as possible on these forums and you guys are always a great help. Some of the issues are still fuzzy with me as I haven't had to deal with it until now. Any help would be appreciated.

[DJ_Longfellow]

The coax is from a cable feed? If so, you want to get a set top box that supports "Clear QAM". It will allow you to pickup any unscrambled HD channels from the cable feed (cable companies are required to send local channels unscrambled (and some send several other HD channels unencrypted).

Cable companies don't use the normal ATSC standard, so any old STB won't do. You need one with QAM capability.

Otherwise, you can always go STB and antenna, but check antennaweb.org to make sure you can receive good signal in your location.

Thanks....I'll check for that (any deals?). It would be a LOT easier for me to do that rather than trying to run an antenna. If I did go that route....were do people place the antennas? inside/outside?

[matome]

I was able to grab the last one at a Radio Shack near me. This is actually going to be for my parents as I haven't pulled the trigger on a new HDTV yet.
I have a few questions as I'm fairly new to all of this (but I do read as many posts on the issues as I can). Here's my questions:

1. I got one of these boxes as well as a decent indoor antennae for them.
I also checked antennae.org. to see what stations they should receive.
It's my understanding that they'll receive these stations crystal clear and
there will be no "snow" - you either receive the signal or you don't.
Is this correct??
2. They currently have digital cable (Comcast) but do not receive any HD
programming. It's my understanding that to receive the cable company's
HD stations, they would still need another box that supports "Clear QAM"
and that this box would have to be from the cable company. I understand
they'd also have to pay extra to receive these HD stations on top of the
cost for this box. Is this correct??
3. My whole reason for getting them this box was to get OTA reception and if
they're happy, to completely drop cable as they don't watch a quarter of
the stations and its approximately $60 a month. They're older (70 - 80)
and live on a fairly fixed income - so this is a decent bill they could
potentially get rid of each month. Would it still be advantagious for them
to get a box that receives "Clear QAM" and keep Comcast??
4. On antennae.org they list about 35-40 stations that will be received, but
only 10 of them are listed with the asterik (*) - meaning digital. The rest
are listed as analog. Will more stations go to digital as time goes on??
Do the stations listed as digital (*) mean HD??

I've read as much as possible on these forums and you guys are always a great help. Some of the issues are still fuzzy with me as I haven't had to deal with it until now. Any help would be appreciated.


1) Yep, that's correct. My parents have an ancient roof antenna and it's split in a lot of places (for three TV's and a couple of FM stereos). One split goes directly to the HDTV set and they get all the network OTA-HD channels. The other line is sub-split a bunch of times, but can still get all the channels on the other TV (an analog set) perfectly clear except CBS, which is just a black screen. Without these tuner boxes the reception was HORRID.

2-3) they don't have cable so I can't help you on these.

4) All channels will have to go digital once the analog cut-off date is reached.

[matome]

I think I might try to find one of these Radio Shack boxes tomorrow. Do they have Digital Audio outs?

Yes, it has coaxial, optical and HDMI out.

[Spiky]

1. I got one of these boxes as well as a decent indoor antennae for them.
I also checked antennae.org. to see what stations they should receive.
It's my understanding that they'll receive these stations crystal clear and
there will be no "snow" - you either receive the signal or you don't.
Is this correct??
2. They currently have digital cable (Comcast) but do not receive any HD
programming. It's my understanding that to receive the cable company's
HD stations, they would still need another box that supports "Clear QAM"
and that this box would have to be from the cable company. I understand
they'd also have to pay extra to receive these HD stations on top of the
cost for this box. Is this correct??
3. My whole reason for getting them this box was to get OTA reception and if
they're happy, to completely drop cable as they don't watch a quarter of
the stations and its approximately $60 a month. They're older (70 - 80)
and live on a fairly fixed income - so this is a decent bill they could
potentially get rid of each month. Would it still be advantagious for them
to get a box that receives "Clear QAM" and keep Comcast??

Some additions to matome's answers:
1) If reception is weak you can get complete dropouts or large squares (usually green, don't know why) of dropped signal. The digital equivalent of snow. This is really location/city/channel specific so there isn't much else to say unless you can find a neighbor with experience. My city has a website devoted to HD reception, it's been a huge help to us. We even get engineers from the local stations posting answers and warning us about large problems when something breaks on their end.

2) QAM would be picked up by the Rat Shack box, I believe. It is NOT a cable box that picks up QAM. A cable box would pick up their proprietary MPEG signal and decode that, which would include both local and national HD channels usually. (depends on the cable company and what you pay for) If you have QAM, just plug the cable line (without the cable box) into the HD tuner and scan for channels. If you find some, all set. If not, then either that tuner doesn't do QAM or the local cable company isn't doing free QAM.

Keep in mind you won't get national stuff like HBO, HDNet, etc. via free QAM. This is just a way to get your already "free" local channels.

3) You may have to keep some cable expense to get QAM channels, even though they don't charge specifically for them. Even the lowest analog tier for $10/month if available. Otherwise I think they just shut off all signals to your house and you have nothing. An antenna would negate the QAM need anyway, if you can get all your desired locals that way.

[NitroJMS]

Well, I went to the Radio Shack this morning at open that listed them as being "in stock" via their website. I got there just as the doors were being unlocked and was promptly told that the one in stock was "on hold" for someone who called a few days ago, and that 15 people had come looking for the receiver. They then refused to help me find another one. They shouldn't be holding high demand items and not moving them to "hold" in their inventory. Me thinks they are just trying to drive up their floor traffic.

Oh well, yet another reason why Radio Shack will never be #1 in electronics. What horrid customer service...

[OldDude]

I have a few questions as I'm fairly new to all of this (but I do read as many posts on the issues as I can). Here's my questions:

1. I got one of these boxes as well as a decent indoor antennae for them.
I also checked antennae.org. to see what stations they should receive.
It's my understanding that they'll receive these stations crystal clear and
there will be no "snow" - you either receive the signal or you don't.
Is this correct??
4. On antennae.org they list about 35-40 stations that will be received, but
only 10 of them are listed with the asterik (*) - meaning digital. The rest
are listed as analog. Will more stations go to digital as time goes on??
Do the stations listed as digital (*) mean HD??



1) More or less. There is a very narrow region of signal strength/multipath where the picture will partially pixellate and the sound cut in/out, but it is mostly perfect or nonexistent. With an indoor antenna, you may have fiddle with placement and direction to get a good signal reading. There is usually a "meter" button on remote, as you can't use "snow" to tune the picture.

4) Check the distance. Antennaweb lists stations out to 100 miles or so, You'll never receive that with indoor antenna. You should certainly get 10-15 miles, no problem on strong stations, and maybe 20 miles or so in "good" reception areas (geography). You will NOT get 50 miles or more without major, rooftop directional antenna, rotor, etc. (This is very YMMV.)

Digital can be SD or HD. Even the majors are only HD for primetime, sports, and a few other hours. They broadcast in 480p (SD) the rest of the day on their digital channel. Still sharper than analog.

[OldDude]

Some additions to matome's answers:

2) QAM would be picked up by the Rat Shack box, I believe. It is NOT a cable box that picks up QAM. A cable box would pick up their proprietary MPEG signal and decode that, which would include both local and national HD channels usually. (depends on the cable company and what you pay for) If you have QAM, just plug the cable line (without the cable box) into the HD tuner and scan for channels. If you find some, all set. If not, then either that tuner doesn't do QAM or the local cable company isn't doing free QAM.



Some STBs can receive QAM-in-the-clear (unencrypted). The Radio Shack can't. It is basically an ATSC OTA tuner, but it can tune cable frequencies only if they use 8VSB modulation (the modulation used for ATSC). Most cable co's dont, and the Radio Shack instruction book says this.

[darkside]

I'm currently using OTA with antenna since my cable company doesn't offer Fox or WB in HD through cable. However, I still have the basic cable package and if they start offering them I will probably connect QAM since its easier than moving the antenna around for a couple of the channels. To me its worth the $15 to $20 bucks a month to get clear reception of local channels for all my SD TVs so I have kept the basic cable.

[Red Dog]

You will NOT get 50 miles or more without major, rooftop directional antenna, rotor, etc. (This is very HMMV.)



I am 50+ miles from Baltimore and get strong signals for the Baltimore digitals with a simple indoor bow-tie (like the CM 4149). Granted, I am on the 13th floor of my building.

[cverneau]

Thanks for the input everyone.
I guess I'll just have to try it out and see what happens.

[Sdallnct]

This is back in stock (at least for this second)...

http://www.Geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=LST-3510A-R

refurb, but overall gets good reviews.