Problems with SW III & Dolby EX

[richrip]

When I try to play SW III, only the opening THX logo scene is decoded as Dolby Digital 5.1 EX. The rest of the movie plays as regular Dolby Digital 5.1. This also happens on some other DVDs that are supposidely produced in 5.1 EX.

If you don't know, true 5.1 EX carries a discrete back channel for 6.1 or 7.1 receivers. Some receivers will synthesize the back channels, and some (like my Sony STRDE995) will play the true discrete back surround channel. So, if you don't have a receiver that will decode 5.1 EX, please disregard this thread.

Anyone else have the same problem?

[bboisvert]

Yes, this was mentioned in some of the other Star Wars threads (although, those usually get so long and off-topic, I wouldn't expect anyone to find it).

The sound on the whole disc sounds a bit strange to me. There seems to be very little bass. The back channel seems dead. And the whole sound just doesn't seem as active and dynamic as the theatrical mix.

[Mr. Cinema]

I agree about the mix. It doesn't seem to have enough punch. Especially when compared to War of the Worlds, which I think is the best mix of any dvd released in '05.

[richrip]

Yes, this was mentioned in some of the other Star Wars threads (although, those usually get so long and off-topic, I wouldn't expect anyone to find it).

The sound on the whole disc sounds a bit strange to me. There seems to be very little bass. The back channel seems dead. And the whole sound just doesn't seem as active and dynamic as the theatrical mix.

Thanks, but this doesn't really answer my question. Does the movie even play in DD EX at all or just DD 5.1?

[Daniel L]

To continue not answering your question, about the bass, I had heard that it was taken down a notch because certain parties (probably Williams himself) had felt that it overpowered his score in the previous film. Wheras turning on a lightsaber can rattle my walls in AOTC, ROTS hardly does anything... so of the six, we have one film with super duper bass heavy lightsabers.

I'm afraid I don't know about the EX, though. :(

[canaryfarmer]

I (think I) remember reading in a lot of posts earlier that it only plays in DD 5.1 (I only remember this because so many people were upset that it wasn't in EX).

edit-From the Official HTF review:

"The box is credited to having a Dolby Digital 5.1 EX soundtrack, although my audio processor did not recognize the EX flag and thus sent no audio to my center rear channel. When this doesn’t happen, I never force the audio is 6.1 mode because I feel the audio collapses too much to the center when matrix-decoded."

[Brian Shannon]

It plays in dolby ex for me.

Perhaps you should list your equipment and settings and speaker configuration.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/dolby_ex.html

[matrixrok9]

To also continue not answering your question, this is the most overrated track ever!! Almost all reviews said this is reference quality. Reference quality my ass, bass sucks the big one. War of The Worlds DTS is reference quality.

[CliffStephenson]

I (think I) remember reading in a lot of posts earlier that it only plays in DD 5.1 (I only remember this because so many people were upset that it wasn't in EX).

edit-From the Official HTF review:

"The box is credited to having a Dolby Digital 5.1 EX soundtrack, although my audio processor did not recognize the EX flag and thus sent no audio to my center rear channel. When this doesn’t happen, I never force the audio is 6.1 mode because I feel the audio collapses too much to the center when matrix-decoded."

This quote makes me wonder how competent that reviewer actually is...
The disc is Dolby EX, it just doesn't contain the flag like the THX trailer does. All Dolby EX tracks are matrix by nature, so manually engaging the EX decoding makes no audible difference in quality over a properly flagged disc. But most of the DD EX discs out there aren't properly flagged, which is a good reason not to engage automatic flag detection on your receiver and, instead, turn it on manually.

[Airbus]

I agree with the above opinion by CliffStephenson.I never relied on automatic flagging of the EX.If it's not properly flagged,I don't think manual selection would degrade the sound.
Anyway,I don't think ROTS is the only disc with no auto EX default setting.My Star Wars AOTC & TPM(including the THX opening) do not have auto EX default and I have to select EX manually from my amp.
About the quality of the soundtrack,the first thing I notice is maybe the mix is lower on the overall volume.So what I did was to increase the volume on my amp for a few dB.To me ROTS soundtrack is one of the best from last year's DVDs.

[Paul Arnette]

Anyway,I don't think ROTS is the only disc with no auto EX default setting.My Star Wars AOTC & TPM(including the THX opening) do not have auto EX default and I have to select EX manually from my amp.

This phenomena is definitely not isolated to ROTS, in fact rare is the Dolby Digital EX disc that is actually flagged properly. Additionally, this also wouldn't be the first time I found something a HTF reviewer wrote to be a little -screwy- , God bless 'em though. :)

[canaryfarmer]

I wasn't trying to imply that since it was in the HTF review, It Must Be True; I just remember comments regarding the EX setting, and the review was the first one I thought of that I could actually copy and paste something from. Thanks for the additional info regarding the issue as well.

[SINGLE104]

DD-EX 6.1 is not a discrete channel, it's matrixed, which denotes the surround back channel derives from the right, left surround. At the present time, only DTS-ES offers a full discrete, and matrixed surround back signal encoded soundtracks, when as indicated.

[Giles]

To also continue not answering your question, this is the most overrated track ever!! Almost all reviews said this is reference quality. Reference quality my ass, bass sucks the big one. War of The Worlds DTS is reference quality.

I agree, a few folks over at Home Theater Forum are listing this disc as one of the worst audio transfers of the year (2005)

Home Theater Forum DVD AWARDS 2005: Worst Audio Transfer (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=248512)

Yes, this was mentioned in some of the other Star Wars threads (although, those usually get so long and off-topic, I wouldn't expect anyone to find it).

The sound on the whole disc sounds a bit strange to me. There seems to be very little bass. The back channel seems dead. And the whole sound just doesn't seem as active and dynamic as the theatrical mix.


well I didn't even think the theatrical mix was all that either.

[CliffStephenson]

I wasn't trying to imply that since it was in the HTF review, It Must Be True;

I never meant to imply that you were. I was simply commenting that someone responsible for A/V reviews obviously wasn't aware of how the technology worked, even in a small way. It's like saying, "I don't set my player to anamorphic unless the DVD contains a 2.35:1 anamorphic film." The fundamentals of DD EX and DTS-ES (both matrix and discrete) are things I would consider somewhat necessary for a reviewer assigned to cover a title as big as a Star Wars film to know and understand.

As Single104 said, DD EX is not, and has never been, a discrete format for the back surround. Engaging manually or automatically makes zero difference in the final output. I was surprised (although not totally) that no one in that multipage review thread seemed to take issue with that statement (although I admit I didn't read every single page. However it never got changed in the review, so I'll assume he was never called out for it)